none
REFS, lost hard disk space after Windows defragmentation

    Question

  • Hi,

    first some short information about the Server.

    Windows Server 2012 Datacenter

    OS disk = 60 GB SSD

    Physical raid Controller: Areca ARC-1261
    Raid  = Level 6
    Used Disks = 11 x 2TB + 1 hot spare
    File system = REFS

    Usable space = 16,3 TB
    Real used space (what the tools and folder properties counted) = 14,0 TB
    Used space (what i see in the computer overview) = 15,4 TB
    Unknown space what I could see with disk scan tool (or the tools calculated) = 1,4 TB

    So here what you could quickly see that i've got a "little" problem with wasted/unknown space....


    How the Problem originated:

    The system drive is a SSD, after running this Server about 150 days and unnecessary little Windows problems i remembered the garbage collector for SSD (TRIM).
    So i wanted to schedule with "Defragment and Optimize Drives" an automatic job for cleaning the drive.
    My problem was, that I couldn't deselect the big raid volume, but i gave it a try an scheduled weekly the optimization.
    Next day i got some alerts "low disk space warnings", i've lost about 1 TB of disk space but could not explain how I could lost this amount of space.
    After starting a resizing of the raid, i counted with file property the real used space and could not explain the shown size in the overview.

    What I've tried to fix this problem:
    First of all, a lot of google....

    Shadow copy: checked, fully cleaned, disabled = nothing just a few GB.
    Backup: checked, fully cleaned, disabled = nothing, but ran under an extra disk but... could never know what's wrong
    Folder options: enabled this far that i could see system protected files and default hidden
    Safe boot = tried a safe boot (some solutions for different user in the web) = nothing could not see more or less
    O & O Defrag (latest server edition) = didn't support REFS

    last of it, new clean installation of windows

    My Questions:

    Is defragmentation on refs possible/useful or is it just an bug with that  "Defragment and Optimize Drives" tool?

    Are the any information's about fixing troubles on REFS or commands on PS oder cmd? (could not find anything on google)
    I've got some books for WS2012 and e-books but there are no helpful information's about REFS.

    I know this is a big text block, but i wanted to show you detailed the problem and my attempts to solve this problem. 

     I hope you could help me or show me new ways to solve this problem.

    Tanks in future....!



     

    Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:41 PM

All replies

  • Hi,

    Please perform a chkdsk in cmd to see the used disk space. I'm thinking if the tool could display the correct used disk space as by default a part of folders will not be counted as we do not have permission to.

    For example the folder system volume information (a hidden folder) will not be counted. volume shadow copy will be stored in this folder so it will grow up. However it will not able to be displayed in used space when choose Properties of a drive. 


    TechNet Subscriber Support in forum |If you have any feedback on our support, please contact tnmff@microsoft.com.

    Saturday, July 27, 2013 8:47 AM
  • Hi,

    my problem ist that I use REFS

    I don't get any informations about the volume, only this when i type chkdsk in the command promt

    The type of the file system is REFS.
    The ReFS file system does not need to be checked.
    I looked in the "folder system volume information", with stealing the rights, but it is empty.....
    • Edited by Nachtviech Monday, July 29, 2013 1:46 PM more details
    Saturday, July 27, 2013 9:28 PM
  • I ran into this exact same problem recently and have yet to find a solution...

    My story is here: http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1ift6g/refs_usedfree_space_grossly_inaccurate/

    I've got 1.06TB of data that appears to be 'using' 2.5TB of space.  I claimed ownership of every file with the Admin account, tried deleting all and disabling volume shadow copies... nothing made any difference.

    Using tools like TreeSizeFree, WinDirStat, and Disk Analyzer Pro all show this extra 1.4~TB being wasted by some 'unknown'.  This all started after I ran defrag and only gets worse every time I run it.

    Seems like something stupid that chkdsk would be able to fix for NTFS but the tool won't run on ReFS.  My money is on a bug with the defrag tool moving files and not releasing the previously used space.  I'd rather not have to reformat the drive NTFS and restore a backup... and hell, if you have to do that with a 16.3TB raid... ouch :/

    I just want my 1.4TB of 'unknown' space back...

    Thursday, August 01, 2013 7:32 PM
  • Thanks for you story..... but still need a solution MS could you look :/
    Sunday, August 11, 2013 4:01 PM
  • Further attempts to fix this have just resulted in wasting more space.  I'm up to 1.6TB wasted by some unknown ReFS bug.  I'm taking this array back to NTFS this weekend.

    ReFS is busted and not ready for prime time.  Caution to anyone who wants to use this for important data.  Resilient... ha!

    Friday, August 30, 2013 2:22 PM
  • Further attempts to fix this have just resulted in wasting more space.  I'm up to 1.6TB wasted by some unknown ReFS bug.  I'm taking this array back to NTFS this weekend.

    ReFS is busted and not ready for prime time.  Caution to anyone who wants to use this for important data.  Resilient... ha!

    Deleting the Raid array is not an option for me..... still hoping that MS looks on this topic.

    Or just prevent on Windows Server 2012 defragmentation on REFS.....

    But you couldn't select specified drives on "Defragment and Optimize Drives" 

     
    Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:02 AM
  • Further attempts to fix this have just resulted in wasting more space.  I'm up to 1.6TB wasted by some unknown ReFS bug.  I'm taking this array back to NTFS this weekend.

    ReFS is busted and not ready for prime time.  Caution to anyone who wants to use this for important data.  Resilient... ha!

    Would be much smarter to license VMFS from VMware (or create similar cluster-aware FS) and port ZFS to Windows for primary non-VM storage. IMHO.

    StarWind iSCSI SAN & NAS

    Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:57 AM
  • Thought I'd post and say I have the same problem on a single drive.  Kind of surprised / disappointed that MS have not commented further after the chkdsk (?!) comment.
    Sunday, October 13, 2013 3:38 PM
  • Still sad, still having this problem....

    Does anyone upgraded to R2 is there a chance to kill this bug?

    Friday, December 20, 2013 12:59 AM
  • an ssd product does not need to have a defragmenter run on it, all that will do is add unnecessary wear to the device

    ReFS is also not at issue, I use it with Windows 8.1 on a desktop and no problems so far

    I also have a VHD with ReFS as data and it also is not a problem


    Corsair Carbide 300R with window
    Corsair TX850V2 70A@12V
    Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 CFX/SLI
    AMD Phenom II 965 C3 Black Edition @ 4.0 GHz
    G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133 8 GB
    EVGA GTX 6600 Ti FTW Signature 2(Gk104 Kepler)
    Asus PA238QR IPS LED HDMI DP 1080p
    ST2000DM001 & Windows 8.1 Enterprise x64
    Microsoft Wireless Desktop 2000
    Wacom Bamboo CHT470M
    Place your rig specifics into your signature like I have, makes it 100x easier to understand!

    Hardcore Games Legendary is the Only Way to Play!

    Friday, December 20, 2013 1:09 AM
  • "Defragment and Optimize Drives" trim's drives and defrag drives automatically.... sure that you shouldn't defrag SSD's (it's intelligent)

    Please read my problem text carefully!

    Try to defrag an hard disk an then look on the file count.....

    This problem could be fixed with win 8.1 should be an similar kernel to R2

    I'm not the only one with die problem of lost disk space!

    I will upgrade these days to R2 and give feedback if this solves the problem


    • Edited by Nachtviech Saturday, December 28, 2013 11:58 AM
    Saturday, December 28, 2013 11:56 AM
  • I have the same issue with Server 2012 R2, I was wondering if you have found a solution?
    Friday, April 25, 2014 1:38 AM