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Excruciatingly slow RDP into 2012 VM

    General discussion

  • Brand new Dell R720 dual Broadcom quad NICs w/1 port on each NIC designated for VMs

    Server 2012 Standard w/Hyper-V enabled

    so far only 2 VMs, 1 processor each, 4GB memory (dynamic on one)

    had the ports Teamed in the Hyper-V and have tried Teaming w/in VM's OS.  Initially had the SR IOV enabled but have since removed that and still no luck.  Have created the DisableTaskOffload registry key and set to 1. 

    I'm RDP'ing from my Win7 box to the VMs and it's virtually unusable (30+ seconds lag time).  However using Hyper-V Manager, (from the Win7 box) I have no problems.  I can RDP into the 2012 Parent w/out issue.  I can RDP into my other 2008R2 Servers (be they Hyper or VMs) w/out issue. 

    Thoughts?


    Friday, May 10, 2013 6:25 PM

All replies

  • Also, one thing I noticed on the BPA of the Hyper-V, it shows 3 warnings:

    • VMQ should be enabled on VMQ-capable physical network adapters bound to an external virtual switch
    • The WFP virtual switch extension should be enabled if it is required by third party extensions
    • Enable all virtual network adapters configured for a virtual machine

    the last one has me puzzled as right now I have both NIC ports assigned to each VM and I have those ports teamed w/in the OS of the VM...so I'm not sure why it is saying "One or more network adapters may be disabled in a virtual machine"

    Friday, May 10, 2013 6:32 PM
  • Just disabled autotuning on one VM

    • netsh interface tcp set global autotuning=disabled

    and it is responding a little better...it's still acting as if it's in slow motion, but at least it's not taking 30+ seconds for Start to show up...

    should I also disable "Large Send Offload Version 2 (IPv4)" on the Teamed port w/in the VM?  Should I be doing all these on the physical NICs instead/too?

    Friday, May 10, 2013 6:38 PM
  • I disabled Large Send Offload on both VMs...rebooted both just to make sure...now the VM that was slower is faster than the other VM...i think it was because it came up first...almost as if whoever gets up first has dibs on the "bandwidth"

    now when trying to xfer files, the xfer speeds are horrendous (and this is on the "faster" RDP VM):

    Friday, May 10, 2013 8:59 PM
  • I need full server hardware specs so I can help you configure your VMs for best performance.


    Windows MVP, XP, Vista, 7 and 8. More people have climbed Everest than having 3 MVP's on the wall.

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    Friday, May 10, 2013 9:30 PM
  • PowerEdge R720 Shipping (331-4437)

    Risers with up to 6, x8 PCIe Slots + 1, x16 PCIe Slot (331-4440)

    Broadcom 5719 QP 1Gb Network Interface Card (430-4425)

    vFlash SD Slot Filler (318-2036)

    iDRAC7 Express (331-3481)

    Broadcom 5720 QP 1Gb Network Daughter Card (430-4418)

    RAID 1+RAID 5 for H710P/H710/H310 (2 + 3-14 HDDs) (331-4390)

    PERC H710P Integrated RAID Controller, 1GB NV Cache (342-3531)

    Intel Xeon E5-2670 2.60GHz, 20M Cache, 8.0GT/s QPI, Turbo, 8C, 115W, Max Mem 1600MHz (317-9596)

    Intel Xeon E5-2670 2.60GHz, 20M Cache, 8.0GT/s QPI, Turbo, 8C, 115W (317-9610)

    64GB (16GB x 4) RDIMM, 1600 MT/s, Standard Volt, Dual Rank, x4 Data Width

    2 x 146GB 15K RPM SAS 6Gbps 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive (342-0427)

    8 x 600GB 10K RPM SAS 6Gbps 2.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive (342-0847)

    Friday, May 10, 2013 9:37 PM
  • OK I assume both CPUs are on the same system board giving 16 cores total

    set each VM to have 4 cores and the RAM to 512MB min with dynamic allocation of 64TB

    then each VM can use what it needs

    as for the network adapter, moving to 10GBASE-T will perk up the LAN nicely


    Windows MVP, XP, Vista, 7 and 8. More people have climbed Everest than having 3 MVP's on the wall.

    Hardcore Games, Legendary is the only Way to Play

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    Friday, May 10, 2013 10:06 PM
  • here's the ntttcp result for the HyperV server

    I'm still waiting on the results of the test on the VM...let's just say it's been running for a while now and still no results...
    • Edited by lavee45 Friday, May 10, 2013 10:09 PM
    Friday, May 10, 2013 10:06 PM
  • how much workload is on your server?

    that screenshot suggests the LAN is loaded fairly hard

    have you checked the VM to be sure its OK? Check its settings in case you forgot to assign more CPU to it


    Windows MVP, XP, Vista, 7 and 8. More people have climbed Everest than having 3 MVP's on the wall.

    Hardcore Games, Legendary is the only Way to Play

    Developer | Windows IT | Chess | Economics | Vegan Advocate | PC Reviews

    Friday, May 10, 2013 10:12 PM
  • yes both CPUs are on the same board.  I've read that giving more than 1 or 2 cores to a VM can cause performance issues...?

    and yeah 10GB would be nice..."would be" is the operative word...I've got 3 other Hyper-V servers (2008R2) and they work just fine on my gig network...

    Friday, May 10, 2013 10:16 PM
  • there is absolutely no workload on the server except for the 2 VMs...I seriously just started building this server the last week and have done nothing more than set up these two VMs...I've been banging my head against the wall with the network speed of the VMs for some time now.  I do remember having to make the registry change for the Hyper-V server to get it to RDP decently.

    remember too, that the above screenshot is the result of running the ntttcp test which does hammer the network...

    here's my VM running that test now for the past 15 min or more:

    Friday, May 10, 2013 10:21 PM
  • increase the CPU cores to 4

    anyone who says it degrades performance is a moron, I use a lot more workload than most do


    Windows MVP, XP, Vista, 7 and 8. More people have climbed Everest than having 3 MVP's on the wall.

    Hardcore Games, Legendary is the only Way to Play

    Developer | Windows IT | Chess | Economics | Vegan Advocate | PC Reviews

    Friday, May 10, 2013 10:26 PM
  • any other suggestions besides upping the cores?  I did have the cores at 2 and 4 at one point in time until I read some posts about not giving too many cores to a VM that's when I pushed them down to 1...

    all my 2008R2 VMs run like champs which is why I'm so puzzled at why this brand new machine is running so slow...

    Friday, May 10, 2013 10:31 PM
  • did you create the VMs fresh or are they imported from an older server?

    set them for 4 cores and leave it there

    lets assume the hardware is OK, and lets look at the slow VM, are you using a server or desktop windows?

    I assume you are using remote desktop 


    Windows MVP, XP, Vista, 7 and 8. More people have climbed Everest than having 3 MVP's on the wall.

    Hardcore Games, Legendary is the only Way to Play

    Developer | Windows IT | Chess | Economics | Vegan Advocate | PC Reviews

    Friday, May 10, 2013 10:38 PM
  • everything is brand spanking new as these two slow VMs are 2012 (my existing production environment is all 2008R2).

    I'm RDP'ing into them from a Win7 box.  Yet when I use Hyper-V Manager from my Win7 box, I have no slowness...it's only when I RDP into them do they take forever to move

    Friday, May 10, 2013 10:41 PM
  • definitely suggests there is a problem with your workstation, how long has it been since you cleaned up your workbox


    Windows MVP, XP, Vista, 7 and 8. More people have climbed Everest than having 3 MVP's on the wall.

    Hardcore Games, Legendary is the only Way to Play

    Developer | Windows IT | Chess | Economics | Vegan Advocate | PC Reviews

    Friday, May 10, 2013 11:26 PM
  • Vegan, I don't believe there is a problem with the workstation when I'm running the throughput test from one server to the new server and the VMs are sloooooooow.  Also, if it was my box, then why would all my 10+ 2008R2 servers RDP just fine?

    Anybody have any clues as to why VM traffic would suck so bad?  I think I'll try setting up the teaming from the hypervisor side and not the VM side of things since I've got SR/IOV turned off...

    (also...I have no idea why your post is marked as "already reported as abusive")

    Monday, May 13, 2013 2:17 PM
  • Changed it all around so that the BACS4 is handling the teaming and still the VM is slow as molasses.

    I've even RDP'd into the server from another PC and it is slow. 

    also, it seems as if I reboot the physical server that RDP into the parent is very slow...then the next day when I come in, it is better.  Yet the VMs are always slow...

    Anyone with any ideas/suggestions?


    • Edited by lavee45 Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:56 PM
    Tuesday, May 14, 2013 9:46 PM
  • Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:04 PM
  • Hello,

    I had the same kind of issue with VM on R710 and Windows 2012 with Broadcom NetExtrem Gigabit Ethernet
    NIC.
    I had to disable "Virtual Machine Queues " in the advanced properties of the NIC, and it works very well immediatly.
    Hope this can help you.

    Edit : this solution was given by our local Dell Gold partner.
    Friday, May 17, 2013 7:31 AM
  • Thanks for the reply Benjamin!  I'll give it a shot and report back.  Did your Dell Gold Partner tell you why this needed to be disabled?  Is this a "bug" in 2012?
    Friday, May 17, 2013 3:15 PM
  • You're welcome Lavee

    I just know that this was given by the Dell support team for these servers. Nothing about a bug.

    Friday, May 17, 2013 4:03 PM
  • Benjamin,

    boy that made quite a bit of difference in the parent Hyper-V server...RDP into it is just as fast as my 2008R2 servers.  However, my VMs are still slow as ever.  even rebooted them to make sure they got the updated settings.

    any other suggestions?

    Friday, May 17, 2013 5:49 PM
  • Unfortunately, I rebooted the parent server and now RDP into it is slow as molasses again.  I don't get it.  I made that change...sped it up...then once I rebooted the parent, it too got slow again.  WTH
    Monday, May 20, 2013 6:15 PM
  • Brand new Dell R720 dual Broadcom quad NICs w/1 port on each NIC designated for VMs

    Server 2012 Standard w/Hyper-V enabled

    so far only 2 VMs, 1 processor each, 4GB memory (dynamic on one)

    had the ports Teamed in the Hyper-V and have tried Teaming w/in VM's OS.  Initially had the SR IOV enabled but have since removed that and still no luck.  Have created the DisableTaskOffload registry key and set to 1. 

    I'm RDP'ing from my Win7 box to the VMs and it's virtually unusable (30+ seconds lag time).  However using Hyper-V Manager, (from the Win7 box) I have no problems.  I can RDP into the 2012 Parent w/out issue.  I can RDP into my other 2008R2 Servers (be they Hyper or VMs) w/out issue. 

    Thoughts?


    Broadcom NICs are really hard to work with (we use Intel exclusively).

    Start here:

    TechNet: Hyper-V 2012 Best Practices: http://bit.ly/10MpBxm

    Note the step on TCP Chimney Offload. Make sure to make this change.

    Also, Broadcom has a problem with Virtual Machine Queues.

    We prefer to team at the host level not the guest level. Less complication that way in the event of a disaster recovery scenario.

    The best doc on VMQ is: http://dell.to/13Fd6kN (Dell VMQ Whitepaper PDF direct link).

    Also, with teaming at the host level make sure binding order for the management network access based virtual NIC is second to your production VM network vSwitch.


    Philip Elder SBS MVP Blog: http://blog.mpecsinc.ca

    Tuesday, May 21, 2013 4:57 PM
  • ... any other suggestions?...
    I'm sorry Lavee, no more suggestion.
    Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:02 AM
  • Thanks Philip for the reply.  I've never personally had any issues with Broadcom at all which is why I went with them exclusively on this box.  Much to my chagrin. 

    I've removed the VMQ on all NICs.  As far as teaming at the VM level, the only reason I was doing this was because of SR/IOV which makes you team w/in the VM (from what I've read).

    Now as far as binding order, I was under the impression that I should have the Mgmnt network access as primary and the VM network team secondary...why is this?

    Here's what's weird...after I reboot the parent, RDP always goes back to being slow...but then over time (say like the next morning or two) RDP into the parent is blazingly fast like all my other 2008R2 RDP sessions.  This does not play into the same for the VMs...they are always slow.  Reminds me of the old dial-up connection days where you drag a window and you slowly watch it move across the screen...virtually useless.  Yet, like I mentioned previously, when I use Hyper-V Manager to access the VMs from my Win7 box, I have no problems with speed.

    I'm right in the middle of a penetration test for PCI compliance, which explains why I haven't responded until now.  Please bear with me as I find time to go thru your Hyper-V BP document.  A brief scan of it seems as if I've already completed the vast majority of the tasks...we'll see.

    @Benjamin...thanks for following up.

    Thursday, May 23, 2013 2:13 PM
  • see below
    Thursday, May 23, 2013 2:14 PM
  • Hello,

    I had the same kind of issue with VM on R710 and Windows 2012 with Broadcom NetExtrem Gigabit Ethernet
    NIC.
    I had to disable "Virtual Machine Queues " in the advanced properties of the NIC, and it works very well immediatly.
    Hope this can help you.

    Edit : this solution was given by our local Dell Gold partner.

    This solved a similar issue on my Dell R520 running 10 winXP VM's. I was running well from the HyperV Manager.. but slow RDP access from outside the WinServer2012 box. When I made that change to the Broadcom Properties "Profit".

    Hope this helps someone else with the same issue.

    Monday, June 03, 2013 1:30 PM
  • thanks deligator, but disabling VMQ hasn't helped at all in my situation...

    non-profit!  lol

    Monday, June 03, 2013 8:37 PM
  • I'm rather disappointed in the number of responses to this thread, but thought I'd still update everyone that I Found the culprit...FIPS security setting is the cause.  Now why the heck 2012 can't handle FIPS and 2008R2 can is beyond me especially since this security setting comes straight from Microsoft's Security Compliance Manager 3.

    I've verified it by disabling the setting and rebooting...nice and fast...enable the setting, reboot...slow...disable/reboot...fast again...and it's only the FIPS setting:

    Computer Config>>Policies>>Windows Settings>>Security Settings>>Local Policies>>Security Options>>System
    Cryptography>>Use FIPS compliant algorithms for encryption, hashing, and signing.


    • Edited by lavee45 Monday, July 15, 2013 7:11 PM formatting
    Monday, July 15, 2013 7:10 PM
  • FIPS is designed to use machines with TPM chips installed on them along with smart cards and the like



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    Hardcore Games, Legendary is the Only Way to Play

    Monday, July 15, 2013 11:19 PM
  • I don't agree that's the root cause as this is a brand new Dell R720 server with 2012 on it.  I have 2 R610 servers with 2008R2 on them that have the FIPS security GPO enabled.  The only time that I've had to have this setting disabled in GPO is when a piece of software that we use wasn't designed with FIPS compliant drivers...

    So IMO, this brand new machine with MS' new OS should be more than capable to handle this security setting since most newer servers built now days have this chip...I could be wrong, so I'm still struggling to understand why this setting won't work on this new server.

    Tuesday, July 16, 2013 2:43 PM
  • right now the only rig i have with a TPM is my Lenovo notebook 

    I have done a lot of tests recently for performance copying file NTFS and ReFS VHDs

    I use 7-zip to backup files and it seems to be reporting the same rough rates that explorer does to copy files. Obviously enabling compression will slow the rate.

    I assume the hypervisor is server 2012 core with only the Hyper-V role enabled.

    The network adapter on the server should be virtualized to be available to any guest client.

    Windows is plenty secure without the FIPS and its not enabled by default. I do not use it, I use the Server defaults. XP has been banished to a virtual machine as its security is very poor compared to what Vista and higher have to offer.



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    Hardcore Games, Legendary is the Only Way to Play

    Tuesday, July 16, 2013 4:02 PM
  • I don't agree that's the root cause as this is a brand new Dell R720 server with 2012 on it.  I have 2 R610 servers with 2008R2 on them that have the FIPS security GPO enabled.  The only time that I've had to have this setting disabled in GPO is when a piece of software that we use wasn't designed with FIPS compliant drivers...

    So IMO, this brand new machine with MS' new OS should be more than capable to handle this security setting since most newer servers built now days have this chip...I could be wrong, so I'm still struggling to understand why this setting won't work on this new server.

    Agreed I have the same issue and FIPS was already disabled.

    MS Certs: http://goo.gl/sTe0t, 7x MCITP, VMWare VCP 4, Citrix CCEE

    Friday, October 04, 2013 6:24 PM
  • Hi All,

    I have a small setup of 2 x HyperV servers in a Workgroup connected to a single switch (1GB);

    Host 1 - Dell T320, Windows 2102, HyperV, on board Broadcom Dual NIC's teamed

    Host 2 - Dell T420, Windows 2012 R2, HyperV, on board Broadcom Dual NIC's teamed, Separate Dual Broadcom NIC's teamed.

    *all of the above Teamed in windows 2012 and HyperV

    Since enabling HyperV Switch the network is really slow and having problems RDP and copying files directly from host1 to host2. or anything outside the 2 hosts.

    I have disabled as sugguested the VMQ on all NIC's and in the Teams in both hosts but its still very slow copying files between hosts is like 3mbs.

    However, from host2 I can RDP fast to it's own hosted VM's and the VM's have fast RDP to the other Hosts and copy files is faster.

    While troubleshooting I I found if If I break the teaming its fast copying files at 200MBS host to host but RDP still struggles a bit host to host (sort of sticks determining / securing connection and 50/50 chance of connecting). Also slow when using IP6 to RDP from one host to another.

    Any idea what I should try next?

    Thanks

    ECL

     

    Tuesday, April 15, 2014 11:51 AM
  • I wonder if the RDP client in Windows 8.1 might not be a better tool


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    Tuesday, April 15, 2014 12:29 PM
  • FIPS is designed to use machines with TPM chips installed on them along with smart cards and the like


    This is not true, in fact, the opposite is true. Since V1.2 of the TPM allows for non-FIPS compliant algorithms and you can't specify which algorithms will be used, V1.2 of TPMs are not FIPS compliant.
    Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:58 PM
  • Another reason to disable FIPS mode that I just found thanks to MS SCM:

    http://blogs.technet.com/b/secguide/archive/2014/04/07/why-we-re-not-recommending-fips-mode-anymore....

    "Government regulations may continue to mandate that FIPS mode be enabled on government computers running Windows. Our updated recommendations do not contradict or conflict with government guidance: we’re not telling customers to turn it off – our recommendation is that it’s each customer’s decision to make. Our updated guidance reflects our belief there is not a compelling reason for our customers that are not subject to government regulations to enable FIPS mode."
    Tuesday, April 15, 2014 4:03 PM
  • FIPS is designed to use machines with TPM chips installed on them along with smart cards and the like


    This is not true, in fact, the opposite is true. Since V1.2 of the TPM allows for non-FIPS compliant algorithms and you can't specify which algorithms will be used, V1.2 of TPMs are not FIPS compliant.

    I am aware that the TPM revision allows for non FIPS but that is not what it was originally designed for.

    The goal was for a safe and secure boot of an OS to allow for a security tool to be loaded safely


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    Hardcore Games Legendary is the Only Way to Play!

    Tuesday, April 15, 2014 7:32 PM
  • I am aware that the TPM revision allows for non FIPS but that is not what it was originally designed for.

    The goal was for a safe and secure boot of an OS to allow for a security tool to be loaded safely

    Which has nothing at all to do with FIPS.
    Tuesday, April 15, 2014 8:02 PM
  • I am aware that the TPM revision allows for non FIPS but that is not what it was originally designed for.

    The goal was for a safe and secure boot of an OS to allow for a security tool to be loaded safely

    Which has nothing at all to do with FIPS.

    It depends in what contract provisions are stipulated.

    the NSA etc all want Ft Knox for security

    FIPS is found in the tabs for the network adapter and are part of Windows, the TPM is a lower level device with an API available to leverage it


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    Tuesday, April 15, 2014 8:08 PM
  • It depends in what contract provisions are stipulated.

    the NSA etc all want Ft Knox for security

    FIPS is found in the tabs for the network adapter and are part of Windows, the TPM is a lower level device with an API available to leverage it


    You don't even know what FIPS is.
    Tuesday, April 15, 2014 8:18 PM
  • It depends in what contract provisions are stipulated.

    the NSA etc all want Ft Knox for security

    FIPS is found in the tabs for the network adapter and are part of Windows, the TPM is a lower level device with an API available to leverage it


    You don't even know what FIPS is.

    FIPS = Federal Information Processing Standards

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Information_Processing_Standards


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    Hardcore Games Legendary is the Only Way to Play!

    Tuesday, April 15, 2014 8:22 PM
  • Just to update you all, my RDP and Network is fast now....

    The cause was because I ticked the "All managemnet operating system to share this network adapter" ....no wounder like I said the issue happened after I setup the HyperV Switch....

    Happy days :)

    Tuesday, April 15, 2014 8:32 PM
  • It depends in what contract provisions are stipulated.

    the NSA etc all want Ft Knox for security

    FIPS is found in the tabs for the network adapter and are part of Windows, the TPM is a lower level device with an API available to leverage it


    You don't even know what FIPS is.

    FIPS = Federal Information Processing Standards

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Information_Processing_Standards


    Posting a link to a Wikipedia article doesn't mean that you actually know what it is. Stating that FIPS is "found in the tabs for the network adapter and are part of Windows" proves that you don't actually know what FIPS is. That phrase is mostly gibberish anyway. I don't even know what a "tab in a network adapter" is supposed to be mean, and FIPS "are" not part of Windows. Why not just admit when you're in over your head?
    Tuesday, April 15, 2014 8:34 PM
  • Just to update you all, my RDP and Network is fast now....

    The cause was because I ticked the "All managemnet operating system to share this network adapter" ....no wounder like I said the issue happened after I setup the HyperV Switch....

    Happy days :)

    start a new thread if the issue reappears


    Corsair Carbide 300R with window
    Corsair TX850V2 70A@12V
    Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 CFX/SLI
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    Microsoft Wireless Desktop 2000
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    Place your rig specifics into your signature like I have, makes it 100x easier to understand!

    Hardcore Games Legendary is the Only Way to Play!

    Tuesday, April 15, 2014 8:39 PM