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Windows 8.1 Preview a Flop?

    General discussion

  • A few moments ago I noticed that there were almost 2 full days worth of threads on the first page alone here...  That implies to me that not a whole lot of people are trying Windows out 8.1, or at least not complaining about it much.  The Windows 8 forum was down to just a few hours of posts on the first page by this point in it's pre-release life.  It seemed to me people were more excited about it.

    A number of possible reasons come to mind:

    • There's little to complain about, because there's not all that much that's been changed.  I'd have thought Microsoft could have gotten more done with thousands of engineers working for a year.
       
    • The new Metro/Modern changes are unremarkable, and few people use Metro/Modern anyway because there's really no good reason to.
       
    • Some 3rd party tools that make the Windows 8 desktop more bearable don't quite work right in 8.1 yet.
       
    • People don't want to be painted into a corner by having a demo that won't allow them to upgrade to the final release, so those who don't have a virtual/throwaway environment in which to test, having been burned during the Windows 8 pre-release, are taking a "wait and see" approach.
       
    • People are having a harder time finding the Windows 8.1 Preview forum.
       

    Other ideas?  Your thoughts?

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options


    Saturday, July 20, 2013 5:37 PM

All replies

  • Well, it's a number of reasons why I haven't posted much here.

    The new forums software isn't to my liking so much and the bridge is no more, so I check the forums much less right now.

    My cell modem doesn't have a Win8.1 driver, and I really need that for my work PC, so I already went back to 8.0 there.

    I did find a couple nasty bugs that makes 8.1 less useful, hopefully they'll be fixed in the release.

    As for the metro apps changes, not much change for me there, but I do like the new boot to desktop and snapped apps seem to work a bit better than before.

    I don't use any of the 3rd party tools to get the old start menu back, so I don't know if they work or not.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Sunday, July 21, 2013 12:29 PM
  • Not being able to upgrade to the final release and the fact that the final release will be here in a couple of months was a killer for me.  It just wasn't worth the pain of reinstalling all my programs and settings for that short a wait for the real thing.

    Jerry

     
    • Edited by jwitalka Sunday, July 21, 2013 3:16 PM typo
    Sunday, July 21, 2013 3:15 PM
  • The consensus of opinion among current Windows 8 users is they are getting more "real work" done and would prefer to wait and install the Windows 8.1 Update when it is released in its final form. So let it be written...so let it be done!

    Carey Frisch

    Sunday, July 21, 2013 5:10 PM
  • recently windows 7 blew up, so I figured I would install 8.1 on the box and see how good bad or ugly it would be

    8.1 thinks I have a pad, my wacom pad will work with a on screen keyboard, I have tried it

    so the task bar shows a keyboard to quickly invoke the OSK, the OSK also appears open when I logged in, but it since stopped doing that after it noticed I have a keyboard

    it will take a while to install stuff

    so far though its 10x better than 8, no more screen mess to cope with


    Corsair Carbide 300R with window & Corsair TX850V2 70A@12V

    Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 CFX/SLI & AMD Phenom II 965 C3 Black Edition @ 4.0 GHz & G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133 8 GB 

    GTX 260 SLI 216 core (GT200 Tesla) & Asus PA238QR IPS LED HDMI DP 1080p

    ST2000DM001 & Windows 8.1 Enterprise x64

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    Place your rig specifics into your signature like I have, makes it 100x easier to understand!


    Hardcore Games, Legendary is the Only Way to Play

    Sunday, July 21, 2013 8:25 PM
  • Well, it's down to less than one day of posts on the first page today, so maybe things are picking up for Windows 8.1.

    Some of the responses have made me smile.  Thanks guys.  :)

       

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Monday, July 22, 2013 8:58 PM
  • I find 8.1 to be a tad unresponsive, mind you what version of windows isn't

    i have installed some games, but none from the list on my windows 8 page

    eventually I will get to them, been busy getting ready for the fall season


    Corsair Carbide 300R with window & Corsair TX850V2 70A@12V

    Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 CFX/SLI & AMD Phenom II 965 C3 Black Edition @ 4.0 GHz & G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133 8 GB 

    GTX 260 SLI 216 core (GT200 Tesla) & Asus PA238QR IPS LED HDMI DP 1080p

    ST2000DM001 & Windows 8.1 Enterprise x64

    Microsoft Wireless Desktop 2000 & Wacom Bamboo CHT470M

    Place your rig specifics into your signature like I have, makes it 100x easier to understand!


    Hardcore Games Legendary is the Only Way to Play

    Monday, July 22, 2013 9:00 PM
  • so far only 1 game would not install, but I am far from done


    Corsair Carbide 300R with window & Corsair TX850V2 70A@12V

    Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 CFX/SLI & AMD Phenom II 965 C3 Black Edition @ 4.0 GHz & G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133 8 GB 

    GTX 260 SLI 216 core (GT200 Tesla) & Asus PA238QR IPS LED HDMI DP 1080p

    ST2000DM001 & Windows 8.1 Enterprise x64

    Microsoft Wireless Desktop 2000 & Wacom Bamboo CHT470M

    Place your rig specifics into your signature like I have, makes it 100x easier to understand!


    Hardcore Games Legendary is the Only Way to Play

    Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:00 PM
  • Q.  "Windows 8.1 Preview a Flop?"

    A.   No, but this comment thread is a definite flop...

                                     

    Carey Frisch

    Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:21 PM
  • Q.  "Windows 8.1 Preview a Flop?"

    A.   No, but this comment thread is a definite flop...

                                     

    Carey Frisch

    Even given your vain attempts to sour this thread Carey, it seems to me the other folks here are being open, fairly reasonable, and even using some subtle humor in their communications (I'm impressed).

    Personally I'd have a pretty good opinion of Win 8.1 except for the fact that I have a persistent problem with my Windows 8.1 test system that I haven't been able to solve yet - the Windows Networking (Windows to Windows) is haltingly slow.  It works but acts as though there are timeouts or data errors between the guest and host systems.  Internet access is fine.  I believe it must be a problem somewhere in the VMware network driver, as not a lot of other folks are reporting this problem.  Outside of that (which is no small thing if it's not a problem with my specific setup) it seems pretty solid.  Never had a crash or even a significant glitch outside of the Windows Networking.

    Notably Aero Glass for Win8 doesn't work with Windows 8.1.   Yet.

      

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Tuesday, July 23, 2013 9:33 PM
  • It is still in bata so judging it now is not fair

    I was actually trying to judge the reception of Windows 8 by the users, not so much the product itself.

    Maybe it's just because it's so soon after Windows 8 was released, but the reception by users seems cooler, less excited somehow.  People seem less inclined to want to try it out.  That said, at least the first forum page now has only 14 hours of posts on it, so apparently it IS picking up some.

      

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Tuesday, July 23, 2013 9:40 PM
  • The number of folks trying Window 8.1 will be proportional to the number of folks running Windows 8 (plus a smaller number of new adopters).

    Since Windows 8 is a flop, it should not be a surprise that the posts related to Windows 8.1 is further reduced.

    Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:14 AM
  • The Surface RTitanic is sinking fast says PCWORLD

    Pcworld and others are saying, because of a pricy piece of plastic that can only surf the net.

    Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:30 AM
  • On real test hardware consisting of relatively new Core i7 systems with SSD boot drives, we do consider Win8.1 to be a flop. 

    The out-of-resources errors are unforgivable.  I'm watching the massive Windoze 8.1 memory leak, which has gobbled up several gigabytes of available RAM in the last couple of hours. A tablet computer would have run out after about 30 minutes of use. 

    So are all of the persistent user interface problems for desktop environments with mice. 

    Windoze should have split into two product lines. One for traditional desktop, and one for tablets & touchscreens. The two are NOT the same, and there is little overlap. Apple has demonstrated that point vividly with the dramatic market share win as Microsoft continues to flunk out of the mobile space for over 15 years.


    Mark88


    • Edited by Mark-ilv Thursday, July 25, 2013 7:43 PM additional detail
    Thursday, July 25, 2013 6:45 PM
  • Windoze should have split into two product lines. One for traditional desktop, and one for tablets & touchscreens. The two are NOT the same, and there is little overlap.

    I've never liked that misspelling of "Windows", but I agree with your sentiment.  They have chosen to abandon serious computing.  There is nothing about Windows 8.1 that indicates any commitment to or interest in continuing to make serious computer operating systems.  NOTHING.  It's running entirely on the inertia of the Windows 7 development.

    Porting all the control panel options to Metro/Modern?  Really?

    Could it possibly be that the leadership of Microsoft is too simple-minded to run a company that does more than one thing at a time?  This is Microsoft, for God's sake, not some pipsqueak startup.

    Why do people who run companies into the ground get to stay in charge for so long as to ensure the certainty of it?

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Friday, July 26, 2013 5:42 AM
  • 8.1 seems a bit faster. IE 11 seems a bit more stable. I tire of Microsoft's monolithic installers - logs may show what's going on, IF things more or less work; certain types of issues (power off is the biggie but not the only one) during installation will at best put one back to square one. But those complaints apply to win7 and win8 as much as win 8.1.

    The pocket device world is discovering things other people actually want to do. I use my desktop for a lot of that (where is it/where are they/what is it/who are they) and I suppose if I moved around much I might get a pocket device myself.

    Desktops do what they do. Unless we get very good speech recognition or something creating a similar sort of leap, I doubt there is that much pressure in most cases to upgrade. I tend to  for amusement more than anything. The next money I spend that way though is more likely to go to doubling memory than to OS software.

    Even Metro has its uses: automatically current tiles/shortcuts is a good idea; search in 8.1 really is useful for finding settings aps etc. without having to know precisely which bucket the thing thought is in.

    HAS ANYBODY FOOLED WITH THE BING/WINDOWS SEARCH unification? I have not, disliking Bing even more than I dislike Google (I HATE page rank as a method and I particularly HATE close as opposed to matching results). From what I have read, that is the area of significant difference from previous versions.

    Besides, I LOVE the Beta Fish logos......

    Saturday, July 27, 2013 10:52 PM
  • What a load of baloney!  Windows 8 (and Windows 8.1 Update) is all about "serious computing"....more so than all previous versions of Windows combined!  Do you find it so difficult to place the Control Panel icon on the Desktop?  Have you ever bothered to read your very own "To Work" tips?

    Carey Frisch

    Sunday, July 28, 2013 2:30 AM
  • Microsoft has to fix this issue before the release. I can open and close blue titles many times, however they stay resident in memory.

    When I close a title I want the program to be ended and not staying resident in memory. This has been reported 1000 times and still not fixed. Its frustrating to open studio max and I get a ran out of memory error with a very high speed computer loaded the ram. We physically have to go into task manager to end them.

    Sunday, July 28, 2013 5:36 PM
  • Drag the app down to the bottom of the screen, like you normally would, then pause there for a second or four. The thumbnail should flip. It's now closed.
    • Edited by Vistaline Monday, July 29, 2013 12:31 AM Replaced nebulous "them" with the more descriptive "the app".
    Monday, July 29, 2013 12:30 AM
  • Do you understand that they don't want you to close apps?  They didn't even have a way to close them during the first part of the Windows 8.0 preview.  Each new version will push that agenda further - just like everything else that makes no sense, but has been decided.

    Apple's model is to just get everything running and leave it running.  Microsoft clearly thinks Apple's way is better than the "legacy" way of closing things when we no longer need them.  One way or another the Apple way is probably the future.

    I guess we ought to get out of the habit of cleaning up after ourselves.

    Oh, and "load of baloney", eh?  Carey, I've never had much of a problem coexisting with you on these forums, but you've just lost my respect.  I don't think you're stupid, which leaves me imagining even less enviable reasons for the crap you're shoveling.  Hey, nobody wants a bright Windows future more than I...  I've made a career of it, and I specifically chose to support PCs, not Macs, with my business - a decision I'm now starting to question.  If the message is unpleasant, don't shoot the messenger, and for God's sake stop spouting off like everything's all hunky dory while Microsoft runs off a cliff.  You're just embarrassing yourself.

    To the original point of this thread...  There are right now 4 days of posts on the first page of the Windows 8.1 Preview forum.  Interest picks up occasionally, but the excitement of a new Windows release just isn't there.  That's a real shame.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options


    • Edited by Noel Carboni Monday, July 29, 2013 4:28 AM Added a paragraph
    Monday, July 29, 2013 4:17 AM
    • Edited by Noel Carboni Tuesday, July 30, 2013 5:21 PM Fixed mistake in making a link
    Tuesday, July 30, 2013 5:20 PM
  • Noel, but according to Microsoft, you will be able to upgrade to the final release without keeping all your apps, just data.

    Blog | Twitter

    Friday, August 02, 2013 3:29 PM
  • A responsible computer user has their data safely backed up anyway, so that's not that much of a consolation.  It will still require virtually a complete system setup - something which can take hours or even days to get through (especially if you don't have a guide to follow).

    But thanks for the clarification, Sergio.

      

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Friday, August 02, 2013 5:15 PM
  • I agree. MS has abandon serious computing.

    @under
    define what you mean. Remember we are in the 20th century. I see more computing in windows 8 series than any windows series. Lets take one option mirrorcasting. I agree its not fully functional yet. I EXPRESS YET. The ability to use my device as a security cam(phone), the ability to use my device as a touch screen. There is so many upgrade features in windows 8 series, and you obviously have never used windows 8

    I'm failing to see the lack of computing




     

    • Edited by colakid Saturday, August 03, 2013 10:40 AM
    Saturday, August 03, 2013 8:11 AM

  • If you used windows 8, U'd understand. Seeming how your kinda bla with your ability to bully people. I understand your lack of skill/incompetence to actually give any post with any gratitude of logic. :)




    Considering the source, that's the second really funny post I've read here in the last few days.
    Saturday, August 03, 2013 1:31 PM
  • Dare I ask?  What was the first?


    There's certainly something funny about this.

    No, that one was really funny quite some time ago and continues to be. The more recent funny post concerned a claimed ability to teach the average non technical corporate business user all they need to know about W8 in 10 minutes and then just walking away. That was seriously funny. 
    Saturday, August 03, 2013 2:40 PM
  • The more recent funny post concerned a claimed ability to teach the average non technical corporate business user all they need to know about W8 in 10 minutes and then just walking away. That was seriously funny. 

    Why?  I suspected it would take longer too, but I didn't even take 10 minutes for each user and I've had extremely few questions afterwards. (they were all hardware and software upgrades and were already familiar with Windows 7.  They were all management level employees, not in IT.)

    Of course I was real careful in how I set their PC's up, but once you get it right for the job, Windows 8 is very easy to use.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Saturday, August 03, 2013 3:14 PM
  • The more recent funny post concerned a claimed ability to teach the average non technical corporate business user all they need to know about W8 in 10 minutes and then just walking away. That was seriously funny. 

    Why?  I suspected it would take longer too, but I didn't even take 10 minutes for each user and I've had extremely few questions afterwards. (they were all hardware and software upgrades and were already familiar with Windows 7.  They were all management level employees, not in IT.)

    Of course I was real careful in how I set their PC's up, but once you get it right for the job, Windows 8 is very easy to use.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Why? I've highlighted the why. Had you read the thread you likely wouldn't have asked. I could do it in 10 minutes too if I pre configured the machine, via 3rd party stuff, such that some of the familiarity and intuitiveness stripped out by the all knowing MS was restored.

    Spend enough time and you can make Win 8 look and feel pretty much the same as 7 for the non tech user. And therein lies the point. Why migrate to Win 8 just so you can tailor it to look and feel like 7?



     
    • Edited by KentIrwin Saturday, August 03, 2013 4:40 PM
    Saturday, August 03, 2013 4:33 PM
  • Well, they came out with an XP-mode for Win7.

    They should cough up a Vista-mode for Win8. 

       : D

    That added feature alone would surely tip me towards the Win 8-is-great camp!

    But then, on second thought, probably not.

    Saturday, August 03, 2013 4:48 PM
  • Why? I've highlighted the why. Had you read the thread you likely wouldn't have asked. I could do it in 10 minutes too if I pre configured the machine, via 3rd party stuff, such that some of the familiarity and intuitiveness stripped out by the all knowing MS was restored.

    I didn't need any 3rd part stuff and didn't install any, no start menu replacement, no Aero hack, all pure Windows 8 and it still looks like Windows 8 and it's easy to use. I pre-configure *all* machines I give to users based on job and personal preferences, it's not new for Windows 8. And btw, I did read the whole thread all along and still don't understand why it's so hard for some.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Saturday, August 03, 2013 5:35 PM
  • I wish they did add XP Mode in Windows 8, it's nice for some downlevel apps that don't run in anything past XP, but it's not real likely. (like a 0% chance.)

    You can still run XP in a Hyper-V VM with a lot of the same benefits, but no seamless window mode and you need a real XP license.

    As for Vista mode, Vista is the MS OS that I skipped and never deployed anywhere...


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Saturday, August 03, 2013 5:42 PM
  • Why? I've highlighted the why. Had you read the thread you likely wouldn't have asked. I could do it in 10 minutes too if I pre configured the machine, via 3rd party stuff, such that some of the familiarity and intuitiveness stripped out by the all knowing MS was restored.

    I didn't need any 3rd part stuff and didn't install any, no start menu replacement, no Aero hack, all pure Windows 8 and it still looks like Windows 8 and it's easy to use. I pre-configure *all* machines I give to users based on job and personal preferences, it's not new for Windows 8. And btw, I did read the whole thread all along and still don't understand why it's so hard for some.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Well I'm not going to argue with you. It's pointless. Though you've demonstrated yourself to be one of the least staunch defenders of the faith present in these forums you are nonetheless one of what I consider to be the few vocal handful of MS disciples here.

    And so I'll pose these questions to you. Why exactly would you recommend, if in fact you would recommend, that businesses at any level should migrate from Win 7 to Win 8 with all the costs and potential impact to productivity involved? What are the advantages in your opinion? How do they outweigh the associated costs and disadvantages? What is it, in your opinion, that makes Win 8 superior enough to Win 7 to warrant the migration for the vast majority of businesses? What will be the payback? In what time frame will the payback occur?

    Please do me a favor if you will and refrain from simplistic copy/paste responses drawn from MS or other propaganda. Your own words will suffice.

    Saturday, August 03, 2013 6:21 PM
  • Oh, lest I forget, why exactly do you think the omniscient MS consciously stripped out everything that would have made the transition to Win 8 more palatable to the average user? What in your opinion was the justification? How exactly is the default metro/modern ui of overwhelming benefit to the average desktop business user? 
    Saturday, August 03, 2013 7:05 PM
  • And so I'll pose these questions to you. Why exactly would you recommend, if in fact you would recommend, that businesses at any level should migrate from Win 7 to Win 8 with all the costs and potential impact to productivity involved? What are the advantages in your opinion? How do they outweigh the associated costs and disadvantages? What is it, in your opinion, that makes Win 8 superior enough to Win 7 to warrant the migration for the vast majority of businesses? What will be the payback? In what time frame will the payback occur?

    That's an easy question to answer -- the answer is I wouldn't recommend that and have never recommended a *general* upgrade from one MS OS to another, it never makes sense looking at the immediate bottom line.

    If you want more touch and mobile capability, Windows 8 makes more sense, and that might be important for some.

    There's also keeping up with current hardware and software that would make one want to upgrade, but this is a long term goal, OS's and apps can be skipped, but hardware does eventually wear out and force the issue.

    As for why I'm using Windows 8 -- it's just because I like it and it works well for me. Some of my users now have Windows 8 because they needed new hardware.  It was a bonus to me that they took to it so well!  I did give them the choice of Windows 7 or 8...

    I don't work for a big enough company to swap out all software and hardware at the same time, I do it as needed.

    And btw, these are my own words, and always have been, not everyone that likes something is a shill.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Saturday, August 03, 2013 7:14 PM
  • Exactly what programs does everyone want to use that xp uses. Or is it the passion of xp what you really miss?.

    I know for myself c++, visual basic 6, and maya, office 2000 and up all work.

    So now we have the most powerfull tool ever made, nettools and nmap,  they all work better in 8

    I would really like to know what the features in xp you really need?

    Remember we are in the 21st century>I still have xp running for a server



    • Edited by colakid Saturday, August 03, 2013 7:22 PM
    Saturday, August 03, 2013 7:17 PM
  • One of our apps from corporate headquarters requires IE7.  No way around it.

    No, I don't miss XP, it's pretty primitive in comparison to Windows 7 or 8 and cannot take advantage of modern hardware.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Saturday, August 03, 2013 7:49 PM
  • Oh, lest I forget, why exactly do you think the omniscient MS consciously stripped out everything that would have made the transition to Win 8 more palatable to the average user? What in your opinion was the justification? How exactly is the default metro/modern ui of overwhelming benefit to the average desktop business user? 

    They didn't strip out everything as far as I'm concerned, it's all still there, it just looks different.

    As for Metro, there is no "overwhelming" benefit unless you use a touch device.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Saturday, August 03, 2013 7:53 PM
  • Oh, lest I forget, why exactly do you think the omniscient MS consciously stripped out everything that would have made the transition to Win 8 more palatable to the average user? What in your opinion was the justification? How exactly is the default metro/modern ui of overwhelming benefit to the average desktop business user? 

    They didn't strip out everything as far as I'm concerned, it's all still there, it just looks different.

    As for Metro, there is no "overwhelming" benefit unless you use a touch device.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Thanks for not answering the vast majority of the questions posed. It speaks volumes.
    Saturday, August 03, 2013 8:07 PM
  • They appear to have stripped out Ad Hoc networking, direct Explorer FTP, WebDAV from IE11, and the Start Menu from Desktop.  You bet the Show-Desktop button looks different.  It's freaking invisible.


    But I'm just speaking for not you as far as you're not concerned.

    Neither is Ed Bott - ZDNet

    I never used ad hoc networking, direct explorer FTP (I use a command line), and I'm still using IE10 in Windows 8, but don't I have a need for WebDAV.  As for the start menu, all it's functionality is still there with the start screen,  the system menu, and the charms bar. The Show desktop button is still there whether you can see it or not. <g>

    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Saturday, August 03, 2013 8:32 PM
  • Exactly what programs does everyone want to use that xp uses. Or is it the passion of xp what you really miss?.

    I know for myself c++, visual basic 6, and maya, office 2000 and up all work.

    So now we have the most powerfull tool ever made, nettools and nmap,  they all work better in 8

    I would really like to know what the features in xp you really need?

    Remember we are in the 21st century>I still have xp running for a server



    You have proven yourself over time to be, in large part seemingly deranged, incomprehensible and simply off topic such as to have rendered yourself irrelevant and frankly a joke. Couple that with the apparent need for affirmation such that you have created an alter ego account in order to accrue forum points that mean absolutely nothing. What's in it for you? Do you seriously believe someone in Redmond is going to descend from heaven and annoint you?
    Saturday, August 03, 2013 8:35 PM
  • And so I'll pose these questions to you. Why exactly would you recommend, if in fact you would recommend, that businesses at any level should migrate from Win 7 to Win 8 with all the costs and potential impact to productivity involved? What are the advantages in your opinion? How do they outweigh the associated costs and disadvantages? What is it, in your opinion, that makes Win 8 superior enough to Win 7 to warrant the migration for the vast majority of businesses? What will be the payback? In what time frame will the payback occur?

    That's an easy question to answer -- the answer is I wouldn't recommend that and have never recommended a *general* upgrade from one MS OS to another, it never makes sense looking at the immediate bottom line.

    If you want more touch and mobile capability, Windows 8 makes more sense, and that might be important for some.

    There's also keeping up with current hardware and software that would make one want to upgrade, but this is a long term goal, OS's and apps can be skipped, but hardware does eventually wear out and force the issue.

    As for why I'm using Windows 8 -- it's just because I like it and it works well for me. Some of my users now have Windows 8 because they needed new hardware.  It was a bonus to me that they took to it so well!  I did give them the choice of Windows 7 or 8...

    I don't work for a big enough company to swap out all software and hardware at the same time, I do it as needed.

    And btw, these are my own words, and always have been, not everyone that likes something is a shill.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Yours must be a very small user environment such that the need for new hardware drives the migration of os's. Again, your response speaks volumes.
    Saturday, August 03, 2013 9:11 PM
  • Exactly what programs does everyone want to use that xp uses. Or is it the passion of xp what you really miss?.

    I know for myself c++, visual basic 6, and maya, office 2000 and up all work.

    So now we have the most powerfull tool ever made, nettools and nmap,  they all work better in 8

    I would really like to know what the features in xp you really need?

    Remember we are in the 21st century>I still have xp running for a server



    You have proven yourself over time to be, in large part seemingly deranged, incomprehensible and simply off topic such as to have rendered yourself irrelevant and frankly a joke. Couple that with the apparent need for affirmation such that you have created an alter ego account in order to accrue forum points that mean absolutely nothing. What's in it for you? Do you seriously believe someone in Redmond is going to descend from heaven and annoint you?

    figures you have to make yourself look so foolish and simple minded.
    Saturday, August 03, 2013 9:25 PM
  • Exactly what programs does everyone want to use that xp uses. Or is it the passion of xp what you really miss?.

    I know for myself c++, visual basic 6, and maya, office 2000 and up all work.

    So now we have the most powerfull tool ever made, nettools and nmap,  they all work better in 8

    I would really like to know what the features in xp you really need?

    Remember we are in the 21st century>I still have xp running for a server



    You have proven yourself over time to be, in large part seemingly deranged, incomprehensible and simply off topic such as to have rendered yourself irrelevant and frankly a joke. Couple that with the apparent need for affirmation such that you have created an alter ego account in order to accrue forum points that mean absolutely nothing. What's in it for you? Do you seriously believe someone in Redmond is going to descend from heaven and annoint you?


    figures you have to make yourself look so foolish and simple minded.
    Point proven yet again. Oblivion too must be bliss.
    • Edited by KentIrwin Saturday, August 03, 2013 9:40 PM
    Saturday, August 03, 2013 9:38 PM
  • I had to laugh when I read about Bob's users who just didn't need anything more than "here's your OS, have fun" - without the benefit of the 100 or so things Bob could have actually done to make Windows 8 more useful and pleasant for them to use.  My first thought was that these are clearly corporate types who do little that's productive with the computer, or likely in any other sense.

    Kent, you're right:  A bright configurator can make Windows 8 about 99% as usable as a well-tweaked Windows 7, but it takes unprecedented effort to do so.

    There are few more useful things deleted than added, and it's just harder to use for some mundane things (thinking of the all the added Explorer prompts when you are trying to copy a set of files, for example) making it a net loss.  Pity.  Why bother?  "Keeping current" is quite intangible at this point.

    Pretty much the only thing specific to Windows 8 I've found convenient/useful so far is the ability to directly mount ISO files.  Aero Glass for Win8 has just been released, and it works marvelously well for restoring the desktop usability Microsoft spitefully removed - but of course it doesn't work in Windows 8.1 (yet).  ClassicShell is pertinent, and it has Windows 8.1 support already (bless Ivo Beltchev for the ability to disable breadcrumbs) .  Plus there are quite a number of other nice tweaks/options that worked for Windows 7 and still work in 8, and even still work in 8.1.  I suppose there's only so much Microsoft can break in a given time.

    I'm not interested in the slightest in what has been made available so far on the Metro/Modern side, e.g., from the Microsoft App Store, and have decided to kill it off entirely by turning off EnableLUA.  That makes Windows 8 greatly more pleasant to use.  But it's kind of disturbing to read language like "Internet Explorer Just Protected Your Computer", which just means you're installing something that isn't signed or hasn't yet got a reputation with SmartScreen.  It's easy to see where that's going.

    Anyway, I digress.  This thread is about how little buzz there seems to be about Windows 8.1.  There are still 3 full days of posts in the latest 20 threads on page 1 of the forum.

    Thanks for the conversation, folks.

    Sunday, August 04, 2013 6:24 AM
  • My beef is the extremely lazy ass attempt to satisfy desktop users need for a Start Menu that doesn't suck balls. It's also annoying that they can't provide multiple Start Menu layouts like tiny teams of developers can supply people with (Classic Shell for instance lets you choose between having a Windows 9x, Windows XP, Windows Vista or Windows 7 style Start Menu, Microsoft's 100's/1,000's of developers? ONLY 1 STYLE FOR ALL! Or in the case of Windows 8, NO START MENU AT ALL!).

    Core i7 920 @ 2.66GHZ | ASUS P6T Mother Board | 6 gig DDR3 1600 RAM | 2x 500g SATA2 HDD | Integrated sound | Gainward Geforce GTX 560Ti "Phantom 2" 2048MB PCI-E (latest drivers) | Windows 7 Home Premium x64 | Thermaltake 750watt Toughpower Power Supply | Thermaltake Armor+ MX case.


    • Edited by Franpa_999 Sunday, August 04, 2013 6:45 AM
    Sunday, August 04, 2013 6:44 AM
  • Yes, Windows 7 is the dinosaur era </sarcasm>. I think that crown belongs to Windows XP with it's superior non-interfering lack of a terribly implemented DWM that makes various legacy programs stutter.

    Core i7 920 @ 2.66GHZ | ASUS P6T Mother Board | 6 gig DDR3 1600 RAM | 2x 500g SATA2 HDD | Integrated sound | Gainward Geforce GTX 560Ti "Phantom 2" 2048MB PCI-E (latest drivers) | Windows 7 Home Premium x64 | Thermaltake 750watt Toughpower Power Supply | Thermaltake Armor+ MX case.

    Sunday, August 04, 2013 10:20 AM
  • Noel, you've crossed the line in arrogance here, I don't really care if you only like and stay with Windows 7, but other people can be productive with Windows 8 in any role.  Saying me and my users can't be productive is just sad.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Sunday, August 04, 2013 12:17 PM
  • Third and last chance Bob.  Click Ed's link.    "Uh, no."


    compliments - Ed Bott - ZDNet


    There's no reason too, Ed doesn't have a corner on the market for opinions and his is only his.  I've had disagreements with him before, so this is nothing new...

    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Sunday, August 04, 2013 2:00 PM
  • Ed's opinions really don't sway me one way or the other, I tend to think for myself always anyway.  I'm far more concerned with my needs and what my users say.

    Windows 8 works for me and my users day in and day out, no loss of productivity, no frustration factor, just work, which is what we're paid to do.  Win8 also works well for me at home, both for development and entertainment.  Win8 is also making it into the homes of some of my users already and I have yet to be asked to "fix" one yet, yet I get asked all the time to fix XP, Vista, and Win7.

    As for the financials of Microsoft, I really don't follow that stuff, but I do know Microsoft still makes boatloads of money, and any short term dip, is just that, a dip, the market ebbs and flows, new hardware comes out, new OS's come out, new apps, people stay with older stuff for awhile, then eventually have to move on, facts of life kind of stuff and nothing for me to personally "worry" about.

    As for "my" followers, I have no desire for that kind of notoriety, I write no magazine articles or blogs.  The only reason I'm an MVP is answering questions about virtualization in various places... 


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Sunday, August 04, 2013 4:22 PM
  • colakid, please refrain from posting pics like this, there's no reason for something like this in a tech forum and there are children that read this...

    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Sunday, August 04, 2013 4:24 PM
  • A few moments ago I noticed that there were almost 2 full days worth of threads on the first page alone here...  That implies to me that not a whole lot of people are trying Windows out 8.1, or at least not complaining about it much.  The Windows 8 forum was down to just a few hours of posts on the first page by this point in it's pre-release life.  It seemed to me people were more excited about it.

    A number of possible reasons come to mind:

    • There's little to complain about, because there's not all that much that's been changed.  I'd have thought Microsoft could have gotten more done with thousands of engineers working for a year.
       
    • The new Metro/Modern changes are unremarkable, and few people use Metro/Modern anyway because there's really no good reason to.
       
    • Some 3rd party tools that make the Windows 8 desktop more bearable don't quite work right in 8.1 yet.
       
    • People don't want to be painted into a corner by having a demo that won't allow them to upgrade to the final release, so those who don't have a virtual/throwaway environment in which to test, having been burned during the Windows 8 pre-release, are taking a "wait and see" approach.
       
    • People are having a harder time finding the Windows 8.1 Preview forum.
       

    Other ideas?  Your thoughts?

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options


    http://www.networksteve.com/windows/topic.php/Windows_8.1_Preview_a_Flop/?TopicId=59717&Posts=16 copy write infringement


    • Edited by colakid Sunday, August 04, 2013 6:23 PM
    Sunday, August 04, 2013 6:17 PM
  • There's only 2 ways I've found that could actually run the app, one is running XP/IE7 in a VM, and the other is RDP'ing into a XP PC.

    All the other methods aren't compatible enough.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Monday, August 05, 2013 1:08 PM
  • I suggest if you have legacy problems to either use a virtual machine or find a new solution

    8.1 has fixed most of the problems i found with 8


    Corsair Carbide 300R with window & Corsair TX850V2 70A@12V

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    GTX 260 SLI 216 core (GT200 Tesla) & Asus PA238QR IPS LED HDMI DP 1080p

    ST2000DM001 & Windows 8.1 Enterprise x64

    Microsoft Wireless Desktop 2000 & Wacom Bamboo CHT470M

    Place your rig specifics into your signature like I have, makes it 100x easier to understand!


    Hardcore Games Legendary is the Only Way to Play

    Monday, August 05, 2013 4:00 PM
  • You must be, unfortunately, a slow learner.  I have personally seen current Windows XP users get in front of a Windows 8 PC, take instruction for ten minutes, and they are up and running.

    In several instances, the users are already using Windows 8 at home and have womdered when they can use it at work.


    Carey Frisch

    Monday, August 05, 2013 4:03 PM
  • Monday, August 05, 2013 4:40 PM
  • Any of those employees have "smartphones"?  If so, how did they learn to use them?

    Carey Frisch

    Monday, August 05, 2013 4:42 PM
  • You must be, unfortunately, a slow learner.  I have personally seen current Windows XP users get in front of a Windows 8 PC, take instruction for ten minutes, and they are up and running.

    In several instances, the users are already using Windows 8 at home and have womdered when they can use it at work.


    Carey Frisch

    I am a fast learner.

    I am talking about the employees that are in range from 26 to 75 that can not learn the new Windows 8.1. Some of the youner people are getting it better but most are not.

    The company had to get the normal menu in MS office since the emplyees could not figure it out. The company was losing production time, not meeting schedule, and losing out on money.

    Right now, the plan it to stop using MS office and move people onto a free office since that has the menu. It seems the people that have been moved over to free office, are having no problems adjusting.


    I'm 52, it took  me 2 mins to know what was going on. The first 2 hours I was including programs in libraries and creating full backups, and file historys to include those libraries, funny how Noel learned a lesson from my experience in computing. How to  add/create files/folders in libraries, how to create full back up using windows 7 backup. 

    Heres how the story goes, in a windows 8 post. Noel stated, the windows downgrade of backup. I stated the new improved file history is replacing that backup. Noel said, you just try to backup your programs in program folders. I responded with, right click on programs folder and chose include library. His response is, I'll have to do more work with windows 8 very interesting. His idea of using windows 8 is load it into  a VM. Ok I'd say his advice for windows 8 is very bleak. I certainly did not get a thank you for teaching him how to include files for file history, instead he fell in the category as a bully and tried to use punctuation insults to prove me wrong.

    Monday, August 05, 2013 5:10 PM
  • When I learn anything useful from you I'll thank you.

    You seem to believe you have taught me to use Windows Backup.  You're deluded.  I've been using Windows Backup for years and have used it with Windows 8 since the earliest previews.  What I complained about, and for which there is NO SOLUTION, is that Microsoft removed the Previous Versions integration with backup from Windows 8.  Now with 8.1 they've removed the Windows Backup UI completely, though for uber-geeks there's still the wbadmin command.

    File History does NOT replace backup.  That you think it can shows the limits of your knowledge.  Perhaps you should check back into this subject should you have to do a bare metal restoral.

    Beyond that, the Libraries feature is bogus to start with.  Explorer doesn't work right if you access things in Libraries, resulting in failures to update the display among other things (our friend Roy is good at showing how to reproduce them).  Adding the entire system to a Library in an attempt to get File History to be a grown up backup facility is just ludicrous.  Windows Backup worked right in Windows 7 and to just walk away from it shows that Microsoft is turning away from people who need to protect their data and working environment.

       

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:56 AM
  • Another bullet to add is that maybe some are just tired of coming here and finding nothing of interest.  Ask a legit question, get ignored by MSFT.  Request some nice, much desired features, hear nothing.  See that people all over are having same and similar issues, see that it appears that MSFT does not care about what is posted here.

    At one point, coming to the Technet/MSDN forums was fun.  Not really anymore.  Actually, this is my first time back in about a month or so.

    MSFT is going to do what they want to do based on misinterpreted "telemetry."  Yes, empirical, objective information has its place.  Likewise for opinions, feelings, and subjectivity.

    A perfect example.  Go to HBO.com using IE11 on Windows 8.1.  Then visit the same site using Chrome, Firefox, and Safari.  What is MSFT's response when reported to Connect?  "This is not a IE11 bug. HBO has to add the new IE11 UserAgent string to their browser recognizion [sic]."  Yep, blame HBO.com.

    With all of that said, I do agree with your first, second, and fifth bullets.

    Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:56 AM
  • I understand your pain, but it has been MSFT's position for many years that there is no supported upgrade path from evaluation software.  Upgrades are only supported from fully supported shipping RTM versions.  That information was clearly communicated.

    Friday, August 09, 2013 12:30 AM
  • I should point out that new LCD panels with much higher DPI will be coming to market over the coming years. The new desktop is designed to be able to be scaled up accordingly which cannot be done with the older explorer interface


    Corsair Carbide 300R with window & Corsair TX850V2 70A@12V

    Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 CFX/SLI & AMD Phenom II 965 C3 Black Edition @ 4.0 GHz & G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133 8 GB 

    GTX 260 SLI 216 core (GT200 Tesla) & Asus PA238QR IPS LED HDMI DP 1080p

    ST2000DM001 & Windows 8.1 Enterprise x64

    Microsoft Wireless Desktop 2000 & Wacom Bamboo CHT470M

    Place your rig specifics into your signature like I have, makes it 100x easier to understand!


    Hardcore Games Legendary is the Only Way to Play

    Friday, August 09, 2013 4:43 PM
  • The new desktop is designed to be able to be scaled up accordingly which cannot be done with the older explorer interface

    Very intriguing. 

    Do you have a reference for that info?  Have you seen some evidence in the Windows 8.1 implementation that scaling the screen elements works better than in past versions?

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Saturday, August 10, 2013 3:57 AM