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I hate Windows 8

    General discussion

  • Just wanted to drop by and say I hate Windows 8, I hate the new start menu...

    1. I hate the new start menu... where are the folders so all the Office programs are in one place rather than having ten different tiles

    2. why is the address bar in IE10 (the metro version) at the bottom? every web browser I've EVER seen has the bar at the top...

    3. why are there two different looks to IE10?

    4. did you challange your dev's to see who could hide the reboot button?

    5. how do you resize a tile? I want to set the tile sizes, ME, the guy that paid for it

    6. why is all the stuff that power users use more than ten clicks away?

    7. if I rolled this out across my domain I'd be shot, stabbed and then sacked...

    STOP TRYING TO MAKE ALL YOUR STUFF LOOK THE SAME... I know your trying to create a "BRAND", and it'll work as 90% of the population will upgrade when told without looking into it and then will say "might as well have a Windows Phone\Tablet" and you'll sell loads which is a shame, I hope you don't sell a single one after using this os, I hope Android\iOS release desktops (Such as the Nexus Q) and crush Windows 8 so I don't ever have to use it...


    Tuesday, July 10, 2012 2:35 PM

All replies

  • Hello Battousai,

    Welcome on this forum

    Rgds,

    Christophe

    Tuesday, July 10, 2012 2:46 PM
  • I'm going to answer a couple of your points because you seem to have.. well... missed the point :)

    1. It's not a start menu. The fact you see it as such is the issue, and that's your problem, not Microsoft's.
    2. I don't disagree with this one. Consistency is the key. The address bar should be at the top I think.
    3. Because their are two different UI environments depending on the work you are doing at the time. IE10 metro is supposed to be simple, immersive and touch friendly. It would be very difficult to make IE10 desktop touch friendly.
    4. Again, I agree with this one. Hiding away power controls inside of a two levels deep settings menu is just insane. That said, I've now just trained myself to press the power button on my PC which triggers a clean shutdown anyway.
    5. Except that you didn't pay for it. And nobody is forcing you to pay for it. Also it's going to be $39.99, so for that price you can shut up and live with a touch interface being fairly rigid in design. Can you change the icon size on iPads? No. Can you change the standard (non-widget) icon size on stock android (ie. no custom launchers)? No. And Metro is no different. Although, that said. You can change tile size between large and small depending on what the application developer has set it in their app's properties.
    6. Yes because as a power user you have no concept of shortcut keys, right? Like Win+X ? Oh look, all the stuff that "power users use" :)
    7. Nobody is going to be rolling Windows 8 out across a domain yet. Hell, we're only just rolling out Windows 7 at my company. By the time most companies would even consider switching to Windows 8, it will have been in the consumer space for at least a year with alot of staff already familiar with it. Besides though, what is so hard about clicking on "Desktop" and using the PC as before with pinned apps and shortcuts on the desktop? Hell there are even apps planned that will auto switch to desktop on system startup.

    Anyway, your unwillingness to change your way of using a PC is the problem here. Most of the things you mentioned (with two exceptions) are either minor issues, or are easily accessible in another way with just a small amount of re-learning.

    Tuesday, July 10, 2012 6:52 PM
  • He didn't miss the point.

    He's right on point.  It's not going in the direction he and his users need their OS to go in.  And while Windows 7 got a bit dumbed down it also got better in a lot of ways - but this new version doesn't really have any obvious (or subtle even) advantages over its predecessor, just change for the sake of change, and some stuff carved out that really was useful.

    It can be made to work - with a crapload of tweaking, I've done it - but the real question, outside of the intangible "it's best to be current" sentiment, is why do we need it?  The essential "gee-whiz how did we get along without that before" part is missing.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:36 AM
  • Thanks for those feedbacks. Several users had similar feedbacks which we have received. The start menu and shutdown menu are new design and they may not be modified.


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread. ”

    Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:13 AM
  • Feel a little better after a rant and a sleep but most of what I said still stands, this is a UI that is designed around touch, my desktop has never had a touchscreen nor can I envisage a time when I will want to interact with my desktop by touching the screen, I just can't see it working for me... And isn't that what was always best about Windows was that it was easy to get it to work FOR you, not it just working the way it was designed to and if you don't like it, tough...

    To access the "Start page" it's a hotspot in the bottom left hand corner, would it have been so hard it make that hotspot a button? or at least give it a visual clue as to the fact that it does something, a slight glow when the mouse pointer moves towards it maybe?

    How about the power off options, could they not run along the bottom of the Start Page so they are easy to find? I've had a number of domain users come and try out Windows 8 on my test machine and set a few simple tasks, one being to restart the machine, not one managed to accomplish this task and these are people with multiple masters degrees...

    as for paying for it, my Microsoft licence is £25k+ a year, so while it might not come out of my pocket they are getting paid a lot for it...

    iOS dosn't have Widgets at all but Android does, and they are resizable (See youtube if you need proof)...

    Windows hotkeys are great and I do use them all the time, but simple things like trying to get to windows update is now no longer simple... my main point is that a UI designed for touch has no place at all on a desktop machine that has never been designed around touching the screen...

    Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:22 AM
  • Windows 8 Mail app:-

     why do i have to have a hotmail account configered before I can add a Gmail account? I don't want to use me hotmail account? I never use it, and I don't want to be forced to use it...

    Wednesday, July 11, 2012 8:09 AM
  • I completely agree with the OP. I have tried to use Windows 8 on three different occasions and every time within 24 hours I have always gone back to Windows 7.

    The Metro System (Or as Windows users like to call it "The Start Menu") - What an awful thing this is. As soon as it comes up you think "Whoah this looks interesting" and for the first five minutes you get excited and think this is going to be great. However after that it becomes a chore. Something of a pain in my side. Initially the default apps look OK with their nicely colored squares. However after installing a few more programs it starts to look really cluttered and bland. In fact when you install Microsoft Office you can see all the individual programs but for some reason you can't put them in a folder which is really annoying or make them look a little more like the default apps. This completely goes against keeping a simple file structure or keeping the "Start" menu clean, friendly and intuitive. After installing all the programs I use it's just a no go for me.

    The Desktop - What an awful system. Who's idea was it to take away the "Start" button? Who was it that decided that Windows 8 was going to be gesture based system? For anyone who isn't going to just start moving the mouse around or is new to a PC they are going to be lost. Are Microsoft planning on doing a weeks course on how to find hidden gems. IMO the desktop is a waste of time in this OS as I keep finding myself going back to the Metro system what ever I need to do. Also when using dual monitors it becomes even more hassle to find the gestures as you find you keep going on to your other screen.

    Right i've had my play with Windows 8. I didn't get too far so now im going to shutdown............ *hours later* oh there it is...

    "I'm a PC and it certainly wasn't my idea to make Windows 8 like this"

    My verdict - Windows 8 will be a flop. They haven't designed this system for either Home or business users. It was made for tablet users. I assume they are thinking if we make tablets like this then people will buy our Windows phones and then buy the OS because they are all the same. Unfortunately it won't work like this I don't think. This OS certainly goes down with Windows ME and Vista. I give it a year before they get rid of this OS and the Metro system.

    Regards,

    Wednesday, July 11, 2012 8:22 AM
  • Anyway, your unwillingness to change your way of using a PC is the problem here. Most of the things you mentioned (with two exceptions) are either minor issues, or are easily accessible in another way with just a small amount of re-learning.

    If I hear this comment one more time, I am going to scream.  Users are not dogs in the Pavlovian experiment by Microsoft.  Users will change willingly and learn new methods and new interactions if there is a gain...somewhere.  One should not be forced to change because Microsoft wants to sell more tablets.  All of us here are long-term Windows users, having moved from one version of the OS to another without a problem for decades now.   But in all cases, the UI evolved to make our work easier, not more difficult.  If there were more steps involved, there was a clear gain.  Now, there is a steep learning curve for something that does not benefit the desktop/laptop user.  This OS is devolving into a portable, non-multitasking, full-screen, single window OS to compete with Android and iOS.  It should not  be that unexpected if users do not want to follow Microsoft down this silly road of chasing the "putative" consumer with ridiculous interfaces and other gimmicks that really detract from the ease of use.  Those who are happy in their role in this Pavlovian experiment (conditioning desktop users in the portable UI), should not try to portray themselves as "advocates of change".  They are only "advocates of Microsoft".  If and when they prove definitively to the rest of us that the new UI is a superior way of interacting with the desktop, then, and only then they can portray themselves in the light they are casting.  In the meantime, I would suggest that they should concentrate on their argument....which none has managed to make thus far.
    Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:08 AM
  • Why don't Metro Apps support proxies?
    Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:11 AM
  • I have to agree unfortunately. The fact, that Microsoft shows such a lack of respect for their user base to not allow them the choice of the UI instead of enforcing something that unpractical like the Start screen on the normal desktop, is very disturbing for me as long time Microsoft follower.

    Windows 8 will eventually be the first Microsoft OS since Windows ME, which will not become my main OS on the PC, if it gets installed at all.

    Best greetings from Germany
    Olaf

    Wednesday, July 11, 2012 1:03 PM
  • OMG!

    I didn't even think about not being able to have more than one "App" open at a time!! I almost always have two or three windows on screen at any given time... only being able to use one at a time would kill me if I was forced to use this at work!!

    Maybe that's a key phrase, "at work", Windows 8 hasn't been designed to be used at work... or on any desktop computer... it's been designed with the sole goal of replicating what can be found on the iPad... After all it's selling by the truck load so it "MUST" be what every single person on earth wants... right?? And one layout of icons "WILL" work for everyone... yeah??

    The Samsung ChromeBox is looking good to me about now TBH... I think if I was to leave the IT sector I would forever leave Microsoft as well...

    Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:05 PM
  • Been using Win8 for a while at work and haven't had the need to have more than one app on screen. To me the apps are mostly consumption based. When I am working I am on the desktop and my work programs are still there like always. So I don't see how it would kill you. I do agree with you for use at home. When I'm playing around I would like to have more than one on screen. I love 8 on desktop and can't wait to get a tablet. I know some people won't like it but that's the same with everything.
    Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:30 PM
  • OMG!

    I didn't even think about not being able to have more than one "App" open at a time!! I almost always have two or three windows on screen at any given time... only being able to use one at a time would kill me if I was forced to use this at work!!

    Maybe that's a key phrase, "at work", Windows 8 hasn't been designed to be used at work... or on any desktop computer... it's been designed with the sole goal of replicating what can be found on the iPad... After all it's selling by the truck load so it "MUST" be what every single person on earth wants... right?? And one layout of icons "WILL" work for everyone... yeah??

    The Samsung ChromeBox is looking good to me about now TBH... I think if I was to leave the IT sector I would forever leave Microsoft as well...

    I can't quite tell whether you're being sarcastic here or just don't know it yet, but Windows 8 DOES have a desktop and CAN run Win32 applications just as prior versions of Windows have run them.  In fact, if you dig deeply into the system and shut off UAC entirely, it will completly prevent the running of any Metro applications.  You can have a purely desktop-based solution that runs more than one app at a time, just as with Windows 7.  Unfortunately, this takes a good bit of configuring and tweaking, and the installation of a few 3rd party apps (good ones), but it IS doable.  Windows 8 isn't quite the brick wall you're making it out to be.

    Note that I'm not disagreeing with you - it's certainly not targeted to the desktop environment as far as I can tell.  But it actually IS possible to be used there.  No one's been able to find compelling reasons why you'd want it instead of Windows 7 though.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options


    • Edited by Noel Carboni Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:55 PM clarified wording
    Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:54 PM
  • I would have to disagree with Ryster on this point

    "1. It's not a start menu. The fact you see it as such is the issue, and that's your problem, not Microsoft's."

    At this stage, it most certainly is. I am aware that Microsoft are advertising it as the "desktop, but there are some intangibles there.

    I stated my views on this at length, in another post (http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w8itprogeneral/thread/3946817b-a50c-47d5-b70a-25739b229991)

    But, if it is a desktop, surely after using an app, and closing it, we should be returned to the Metro "Desktop". But we are not. We are returned to the legacy desktop.

    This has not deterred me. I am quite liking Windows 8. I am regarding the Metro as I stated, as a Start menu. I have removed many of the rarely used items, and am now able to use it successfully as such - albeit graphical Hopefully it will be customisable by the time of RTM.

    After I close my non- Metro apps (which at this stage includes most Microsoft products!) One click brings me back to my (Metro) start menu. Or alternatively, a single click of the windows key. How can that be so much worst than Windows 7 start menu?

    Apart from arranging the Metro, and inserting my own shortcut tiles there ("Stuff for Power users") I have only tried out one tweak. I installed the "Classic" menu. This, if you try it, takes you straight to the more familiar desktop, complete with the globe and legacy start menu. Truthfully, for those who do not want to drift to far away from Windows 7, it needs a double take to realise you are not actually in 7.


    David Clarke

    Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:15 PM
  • We paying every year really much money to fulfill our Enterprise Agreement.

    But Microsoft had never questioned us, if we want such new features.

    Currently, we will never install Windows 8 in our company. We don't need Metro and "Full Screen" Apps. 

    Windows Server 2012 is currently not decided. But We don't like this Metro thing on a server too.

    BTW: I like my Clock and Weather-Gadet on the DeskTop.  What want Microsoft say to us with this statement

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/downloads/personalize/gadgets  ?

    "We are unable to fix security issues " ?

    Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:11 PM
  • We paying every year really much money to fulfill our Enterprise Agreement.

    But Microsoft had never questioned us, if we want such new features.

    Currently, we will never install Windows 8 in our company. We don't need Metro and "Full Screen" Apps. 

    Windows Server 2012 is currently not decided. But We don't like this Metro thing on a server too.

    BTW: I like my Clock and Weather-Gadet on the DeskTop.  What want Microsoft say to us with this statement

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/downloads/personalize/gadgets  ?

    "We are unable to fix security issues " ?

    According to Microsoft's own leadership, you do not count.  Enterprise desktop/laptop computing is not perceived by Microsoft to be a growth market.  In fact, Microsoft has specifically stated that it expects business to continue with their deployment of Win7. 

    This would be OK (Win7 for businesses and Win8 for consumers), if Microsoft is not in the business of actively undermining Win7. Microsoft is making an impassioned plea to developers to code exclusively for WinRT while promising to remove Win32 functionality in the future. 

    So, now, let's summarize the Microsoft policy: Suckers in businesses should continue buying an OS we try to orphan as fast as possible while consumers should buy Win8 that does away with the whole "windows" concept.  We promise to give to these consumers lots and lots of tiny apps that run full screen (see "immersive" in marketing jargon), which, of course, are readily available for iOS and Android.  Just to make sure that you would love this system directed to low-brain power bozos, we put in the opening screen some tiles that you may want to touch!!!

    This is stuff of high comedy.  It is happening, however, which indicates that life not really devoid of clowns trying to peddled questionable products.

    Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:12 AM
  • You are only allowed to like it. Adapt or get left behind. MS have the right to take our money, remove features, and cheat us. We are puppets, we must pay our 3 yearly fee and upgrade our systems even if it reduces functionality. We are just brainless users who must shell out money for a reduced functionality product
    *Amen*

    "A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code"

    Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:40 AM
  • I have to say I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree. I work for a government agency and I do not see this being deployed across the Federal landscape. I'm an IT person and I'm having difficulty navigating this interface. Trying to find basic things is next to impossible. I've spent at least the last 30 minutes trying to figure out how to run Internet Explorer as an administrator, and so far, no luck. Yes, maybe business users aren't a focus for Microsoft, but they should be - since greater than 90% of all businesses use WINDOWS BASED systems!!

    I'm running Windows 8 Enterprise on my work issued machine, and after this frustrating experience, it's not likely I'm going to redeem my "discounted" Win 8 upgrade for my new PC.

    Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:42 PM
  •  Yes, maybe business users aren't a focus for Microsoft, but they should be - since greater than 90% of all businesses use WINDOWS BASED systems!!


    Microsoft is quite clear that its target are consumers, not the enterprise.  In fact, it is interesting that Microsoft is now strongly supporting BYOD initiatives and the "consumerization of IT" (check the respective videos in TechNet).  Furthermore, according to Ballmer, Microsoft's future is in devices and services. There is little doubt that Microsoft wants to emulate the Amazon and Apple success story.  Thus, its devices would be an entry point to its services: It promises a "seamless experience" in its devises.

    The scary part of Ballmer's address is that he now regards the desktops as "devices" (at least, he counts them as such).  I am almost certain that Microsoft's target is to make sure that all future software is sold through its Windows store (this would ensure quite a good income stream).

    Microsoft is way past just selling licenses for Windows and licenses for productivity applications that run in somebody else's hardware.  It is patently clear that Microsoft is fully abandoning this business model.  As such, my guess is that Win8 may be the last Windows OS that one can install him/herself.  Future versions will come with the "devices" only (as is the case with other portable OSes).

    Windows as a desktop OS is dead and gone. 

    Friday, October 12, 2012 8:44 PM
  • I hate it too! I've been using Windows since 3.1. I also use Ubuntu Linux: Unity was a step back, but Microsoft has outdone them: this Windows 8 is terrible! There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to why they changed things and it is very complicated to figure out how to do the simplest, most basic tasks!!! Good thing I tried it before I bought it!!!

    It is not about hating touch screens and apps. I love the Android platform. It is the lack of consistency and intuitive methods of accomplishing tasks that is so infuriating!

    Friday, October 26, 2012 4:02 PM
  • I hate it too! I've been using Windows since 3.1. I also use Ubuntu Linux: Unity was a step back, but Microsoft has outdone them: this Windows 8 is terrible! There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to why they changed things and it is very complicated to figure out how to do the simplest, most basic tasks!!! Good thing I tried it before I bought it!!!

    It is not about hating touch screens and apps. I love the Android platform. It is the lack of consistency and intuitive methods of accomplishing tasks that is so infuriating!

     

    Well, there is a rhyme and a reason, but only as far as Microsoft revenues are concerned.  Microsoft feels that it needs to grab a substantial portion of the tablet and smartphone market or otherwise the company would not be a participant in the post-PC world.  There is nothing here for the users.  In fact, usability in the desktop and laptop have been degraded because of the touch orientation of the interface.  Thus, there is no Start Button; control of the OS is at the edges of the screen where the "Charms" are found.  This is great on tablets (as our fingers rest at the end of the screen) but silly on the desktop.  There is lots of horizontal scrolling (which again, makes little sense in the desktop).  Multitasking has been degraded and user input into OS management has also being degraded (although what is there is appropriate for a tablet OS).

    In support for Ubuntu, users did not have to use the Unity UI if they chose not to do so. Win8 needs to be seen as a mobile OS (a competitor to Android) that also runs "legacy" Win32 applications.  Unfortunately, comparisons with Android would be to the detriment of Win8.  Android 4.1 is far superior as a mobile OS than Win8 (and Windows RT).  And these comparisons will be made.  Android allows far more customization, it has a more robust multitasking capability and allows more user interaction in OS management.  So, the way I see it, Win8 is a fail both as a desktop OS and as portable OS.



    • Edited by ADRz Friday, October 26, 2012 9:21 PM
    Friday, October 26, 2012 9:20 PM
  • I agree with you I hate windows 8 and everyone I know feels the same.  This will never fly in an office.  It should not be so hard to figure out, why make it so hard to operate.  Not sure why they call it Windows it should be more like Tiles 1 or something but whatever they call it will not change just how crazy it is.  Hello Apple here I come.
    Tuesday, November 13, 2012 6:44 AM
  • I agree with all of the above.  By the end of today, I will do something I swore I would never do - switch to Apple.  This was really the last straw.  I'm a very busy guy, and I don't have time to learn an operating system with such a radical difference.  For decades, I touted the superiority of Windows, and now I feel foolish for having done so.  All I needed was for it to work.  i don't need to go through all this foolishness.  I have a practice to run, and I can't do it with this dog of an operating system on my computers.  Does Microsoft ever ask thier consumers what THEY want in an operating system?  I've lost all confidence in Microsoft.  What a shame.
    Tuesday, November 13, 2012 6:50 PM
  • Dr. Allen, if you'd really like Windows 8 to be a lot more like the earlier versions of Windows you're used to, then my book might help you.  But I don't blame you for feeling Windows 8 is the straw that broke the camel's back.  I've decided to stay on Windows 7 myself, and I'm seriously wondering what my next OS will be.

    You've lost all confidence because the guy leading Microsoft's Windows division made specific decisions not only to turn the product in entirely another direction (to try to follow Apple?) but ALSO to specifically make your life worse.  If all he'd done is leave the desktop fully functional, adding the occasional little tweak here or there, but also make the system more efficient and add the Metro/Modern tack-on, all us business users looking for a serious operating system would have been happy as clams, and we'd all have upgraded without complaint.  We'd probably have even paid a lot more for it.  I think that the price Microsoft is charging for the upgrade is testament to how much even THEY feel it's worth to serious computer users.

    But nooooo, in a severe case of cranial rectalitis they decided to become manipulative and try to make the users like the new toy interface more by making the "legacy" desktop less functional and less pleasant to use.  THAT will ultimately destroy Microsoft if they don't get back on the straight and narrow.

    Best of luck in your future endeavors, Dr. Allen.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Tuesday, November 13, 2012 7:07 PM
  • I just fired up my new Dell Windows 8 machine today, and am frustrated like many others.  I've been using computers since the PDP 8 where I used teletype paper tapes and a bootstrap loader.  Then Unix, then Dos, as well as Mac Lisa, even a Atari 800.  I use a lot of business software that needs the old UI.  Don't even get me started on explorer.

    After many years of using Windows and learning to tweak it so odball software would work, I'm thrown a curve.  Sure, I could spend a few hundred hours learning it inside and out, but why?  I'm not against having the new UI as a option, but it certainly is frustrating.  I want to just return the PC and get one with Windows 7, but i'll probably play with it some more.

    Wo knows, maybe someone at Microsoft will put out a update letting us use our old UI exclusively.

    I am also going to try Stardock Start 8 and see if that helps.

    It would help if there were some low cost 27 inch touch screen monitors, I will keep searching for them. 

    Wednesday, November 28, 2012 12:13 AM
  • I just fired up my new Dell Windows 8 machine today, and am frustrated like many others.  I've been using computers since the PDP 8 where I used teletype paper tapes and a bootstrap loader.  Then Unix, then Dos, as well as Mac Lisa, even a Atari 800.  I use a lot of business software that needs the old UI.  Don't even get me started on explorer.

    After many years of using Windows and learning to tweak it so odball software would work, I'm thrown a curve.  Sure, I could spend a few hundred hours learning it inside and out, but why?  I'm not against having the new UI as a option, but it certainly is frustrating.  I want to just return the PC and get one with Windows 7, but i'll probably play with it some more.

    Wo knows, maybe someone at Microsoft will put out a update letting us use our old UI exclusively.

    I am also going to try Stardock Start 8 and see if that helps.

    It would help if there were some low cost 27 inch touch screen monitors, I will keep searching for them. 

    Do not hope against hope.  I ain't going to happen.  In fact, more "Metro" is in the offing, not less.  And why would Microsoft bother with you anyway?  You bought its merchandise as is, so you should not complain.

    You cannot downgrade from a PC bought at a store.  You can only downgrade to Win7 for PCs ordered through channels. Many will find this out the hard way. 

    By the way, why would you want a 27-inch touch monitor?  Do you plan to do a lot of shoulder exercise????  A touch desktop monitor is the most useless peripheral because the touch is not going to be used.

    Wednesday, November 28, 2012 1:27 AM
  • There's a free alternative to Start 8 called ClassicShell.  It's quite good.

    If you can tolerate the reduction in usability the new Aero implementation brings, there are sufficient "To Work" options that can be tweaked that can make your system more or less workable.  But make no mistake, it's lost some perfectly good features of Windows 7.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Wednesday, November 28, 2012 5:41 AM
  • There's a free alternative to Start 8 called ClassicShell.  It's quite good.

    If you can tolerate the reduction in usability the new Aero implementation brings, there are sufficient "To Work" options that can be tweaked that can make your system more or less workable.  But make no mistake, it's lost some perfectly good features of Windows 7.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    I have to say that I find it amazing that people would upgrade to Win8 from Win7 and then try to run programs like ClassicShell or Start8 to simply have less functionality than what they had before!!!  This makes little or no sense to me.

    It is all pretty pointless.  The only reason to upgrade to Win8 is the "Metro/WinRT" part of the equation.  If a user strongly desires to install some of the mobile apps available for this platform, then Win8 makes sense.  However, just for working in the desktop, it really, really makes no sense to upgrade.

    If I have this wrong, I invite any of the Win8 fanboys to set me right.

    Wednesday, November 28, 2012 5:33 PM
  • Exactly. People should continue to use Windows 7 until Microsoft learns their lesson (if at all) and UN-simplifies Windows again in Windows 9. Classic Shell only supports Windows 8 as a "last resort" measure. I recommend Windows 7 for using Classic Shell where more customizations are possible.
    Friday, November 30, 2012 11:45 AM
  • Thank god I come across this topic, whinge!!! yay!!

    I have to say, i dont like win 8, Microsoft Website and Internet Explorer.

    Windows 8

    1. Dont like how you have to go to Metro UI as a start menu

    2. The marketplace apps are mostly paid (quite expensive too), and not many option out there

    3. Hate when im about to close maximized windows explorer, end up click on "fancy" side bar. This is annoying

    4. Same goes with pinned item on my desktop taskbar at the bottom left hand corner, if you missed it, it will go back to Start button

    4a. and i cant stand there are 2 world of sort of window going on, if you play a music, windows will start their crappy wannabe modern like window player on metro UI, in the same time, you can play WMP in desktop? THE F is this? why cant you combine into 1? why create more confusion? same with Internet explorer or Chrome? Both Metro UI and Desktop work independently? whats the benefit?

    5. Windows explorer interface? Win7 way better, straight forward you dont have to click million times to to get what you need. Unlike win8, took me sometime to look for "Folder Options" even as simple as creating a folder, you have to either gambling right click any empty space to create a folder (or might end up accidently right clicking other folder), or File > New.  where's the "New Folder" icon gone?

    5a. Too many, "Are you sure this??" "Areyou sure that"? "Are you sure youre going to take a poo??" yes or no? oh, Are you sure you want to masturb*te?

    and, you need permission for this for that, are you sure? im an admin, shouldnt have that dumb question.. really.. if that the case, just get rid of administrator and guest user... 

    6. Cant stand to wait for those "Fancy Sidebar" to come up before i can click on what i need, i like to click away and go with prompt reaction. You dont need to wait 

    7. Obviously it designed for tablet like use, not for Desktop, and Microsoft shouldnt release for desktop. I hate using windows Phone OS... pointless, no flexibility.

    8. whats with trying to go to safemode? needs to do this and that before going to safemode? no more F8? why makes things harder?

    9. dont like the option of copy, paste and overwrite, too many questions and confusing

    10. Start orb button gone, need to buy a 3rd party to get it back, i dont who's idea replacing start button to Metro UI, so messy especially when you install new program, all shortcuts loaded in Metro UI

    11. the only good thing with Win8, its faster.

    IE8? oh dont ask, everything is useless and complicated, unlike IE7 or IE8. Chrome and Firefox da bomb yo!

    Microsoft website? i m not sure if that's website or tablet OS.... cant even find Google to set as search provider. they put BING as recommended search provided and yet they know how pointless and how useless BING is.... only dumb ones and Microsoft employee prolly say BING is the best just to please them (microsoft)

    Conclusion? Microsoft nowadays trying so hard to involve into tablet/phone OS world without realizing they are not exist in this world today for that, Microsoft more specializing into Work/Home desktop PC environment than tablet/smartphone world... no Mico (mcrosoft) youre not for that, stop showing your desperation to have everything and change the world by forcing your customer... even though you know most people using windows... and you know you can force them. WIndows 8 is meant to be Tablet, not for Desktop, so you should leave them alone...  Microsoft trying to be modern, simple, and sophisticated? unfortunately, you just make things more difficult, more work around and not straight to the point. I regret buying Windows Phone which i already give it away to someone for free, and now Microsoft just got me by the balls again, Windows 8, i regret it too. Now i know why people get into Piracy? dont you think?....





    • Edited by Nexusys44 Sunday, December 02, 2012 5:34 AM
    Saturday, December 01, 2012 10:22 AM
  • 11. the only good thing with Win8, its faster.

    Funny thing, it's not.  It's faster in the same way a fresh, clean install of Windows 7 would be faster.

    I benchmarked similarly configured fresh installs of Windows 7 and 8.  Windows 8 is a bit faster to boot up and that's all!  In many ways it's actually slower than Windows 7 to do exactly the same operations.

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options


    • Edited by Noel Carboni Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:13 PM typo
    Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:13 PM
  • Conclusion? Microsoft nowadays trying so hard to involve into tablet/phone OS world without realizing they are not exist in this world today for that, Microsoft more specializing into Work/Home desktop PC environment than tablet/smartphone world... no Mico (mcrosoft) youre not for that, stop showing your desperation to have everything and change the world by forcing your customer... even though you know most people using windows... and you know you can force them. WIndows 8 are meant to be Tablet, not for Desktop, so you should leave them alone...  Microsoft trying to be modern, simple, and sophisticated? unfortunately, you just make things more difficult, more work around and not straight to the point. I regret buying Windows Phone which i already give it away to someone for free, and now Microsoft just got me by the balls again, Windows 8, i regret it too. Now i know why people get into Piracy? dont you think?....




    There is little doubt, as the reports are coming in, that there is much less utilization of Win8 than Microsoft would have expected.  However, most consumers are caught in a bind.  Every machine sold in stores is running Win8 and, for these machines, there is no downgrading to Win7.  One needs to order directly from the manufacturer in order to get the machine configured with Win7.    Thus, Microsoft is going to sell licenses "forcefully" as consumers would have no other choices.  So, it is interesting to see what happens in this holiday season.  This is what happens when there is a monopoly.  One would have to "eat" its product, without been given a choice.

    If one has paid attention, Microsoft and the OEMs are not trying to sell Win8 in traditional PCs and laptops.  They show tablets (the Surface being one of them) and "convertibles".  However, on my own experience, users will get frustrated with the limitations of these machines.  It would be interesting to see what happens in 6 months from now.

    Saturday, December 01, 2012 6:56 PM
  • Ah thanks Noel, yes that's what i meant.. boot up quicker, but the rest are the same as Win7...
    Sunday, December 02, 2012 5:36 AM
  • I totally agreed and second your statement there ADRz... 
    Sunday, December 02, 2012 5:36 AM
  • I totally agreed and second your statement there ADRz... 

    Thank you Nexusys44.  Well, Microsoft is supposedly preparing a major update of Win8 for next summer in "Project Blue".  My guess is that you would see more and more degradation of the desktop.

    One of the major criticisms for Win8 and Windows RT in tablets is that the OS defaults to the "desktop" for many of its settings, throwing off tablet users as the desktop environment is not very touch friendly.  Thus, I expect that "Project Blue" would be an effort to move as many of the OS settings to "Metro/WinRT" so that users hardly ever have to go to desktop for any OS services and to manage the PC.  The desktop (to the degree that it survives) would be limited to just running Win32 apps.  In fact, Win8/Blue is transitioning in becoming a fully fledged mobile OS but one that just allows users access to Win32-compliant programs.  

    I just do not believe that Microsoft cannot see the danger of what it is doing.  Google can really upend the Microsoft strategy by developing Android to do very much the same (it would need a separate Win license).  With Parallels and Fusion in OSX, Microsoft may be "faced out".  As long as Win32 is no longer being developed, the incorporation of Win7 licenses in other mobile OSes would provide full access to all Win32 programs without having to depend on Windows whatsoever.  Then, the only reason to get Windows would be to run the "Metro" apps.  I do not think that there would unique Metro apps, they would be the same as the ones developed for iOS and Android.

    Sunday, December 02, 2012 8:03 PM
  • 8. whats with trying to go to safemode? needs to do this and that before going to safemode? no more F8? why makes things harder?

    Supposedly, everybody would be running in VGA mode then and so be able to use the designed UI, arcane as it is, to get to the Advanced Options menu.   I doubt they were expecting to see so many who seem to have completely lost their VGA mode, e.g. some now apparently can no longer even see their BIOS Setup screens without having an attached monitor.   The upgrade did this?

     

    ---

    Monday, December 03, 2012 6:30 PM
  • Wanted to register my disappointment. I'm a W2K12 user with the same stupid Metro interface.

    I agree with other users. This is kiddie stuff. It is not for serious users that need to run many apps and do things quickly.

    There are TWO things wrong:

    1. There IS STILL a start button (actually two that I could find):

    • Very tiny left click area at bottom left of the screen that works sometimes if you move the mouse just right wand wait just long enough and hold your nose sideways.
    • Same area: crappy, limited version if you right click in the same spot.

    2. The "-" to close the menu is on the opposite side of the screen. If you think that moving your mouse all the way from the left of the screen to the right of the screen, is NOT a time waster, then you are not a heavy duty user.

    Glad to hear that the guy in charge of this was fired.

    As a near monopoly holder over the business desktop, Microsoft has a responsibility to respect users.

    Microsoft should restore the start button and the real start menu system in a regular windows update and stop the anguish. If people really want Metro because it is better, they will switch to it automatically.

    The original designers of Windows 3.5 (NT) and Windows 95 were brilliant. Sure the interfaces were new back then and it took getting used to, but they were unquestionably better. This stuff just sucks. It looks pretty. That doesn't mean it is better.

    Really dumb move Microsoft. Give users a choice and let them vote. Do not dictate.

    The worst thing is, there is no help file or documentation on how to make this work.

    Bob.


    • Edited by BobH2 Sunday, December 09, 2012 8:27 PM
    Sunday, December 09, 2012 8:26 PM
  • If you think that moving your mouse all the way from the left of the screen to the right of the screen, is NOT a time waster, then you are not a heavy duty user.

    Power users use the Win- key (or Ctrl-Esc if they have only ancient keyboards).   If you have a Touch Screen you can now press just Win-Tab once and stab your finger on the thumbnail you want.   Alt-Tab too is Touch enabled if you have something specific to switch to.   (E.g. instead of relying on ingrained habits like holding down a modifier key and pressing Tab repeatedly to get where you want to go.  Now there's a time waster.  <eg>)

     

    ---

    Sunday, December 09, 2012 9:45 PM
  • Power users use the Win- key

    That could be mildly insulting to people who aren't keyboard centric, but who consider themselves power users, Robert.  Not everyone who's adept at using Windows gravitates to the keyboard.

    I'll bet BobH2 knows all about the different ways to use Windows, and uses it quite possibly as well as you and I.

    Only thing he and I disagree on is that any part of the new system "looks pretty".  Flat and square don't happen to light my fire.  I didn't care for the square-edged cars of 1980 much either.

     

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Monday, December 10, 2012 12:03 AM
  • Does Windows 8 remind anyone else of New Coke?
    Monday, December 10, 2012 3:33 AM
  • I love it on my tablet but it drives me crazy on my desktop for many of these same reasons.  One thing that drives me crazy is WindowsDefender that seems to run all the time making my computer sound like it is going to take off.  And there is no way to stop it.  The only thing you can do once you find the control in Maintenance is to change the time it runs.  Opening the Windows Defender window is useless.  Then you have to go to services and turn it off.  Then you have peace and quiet until the inevitable time rolls around it starts running crazy again.  MSE was great.  Windows Defender again takes away your control.

    So many times I am trying to do something and I have to jump through hoops to find Control Panel or whatever since there is no start menu.  Of course, you can hit Windows Run if you remember the DOS name for control panel.  I surely don't.

    Thursday, December 20, 2012 4:04 PM
  • I have to jump through hoops to find Control Panel or whatever since there is no start menu. 

    There is no downside I can see to running ClassicShell.

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Thursday, December 20, 2012 4:39 PM
  • I have to jump through hoops to find Control Panel or whatever since there is no start menu.


     


    Does right clicking the bottom left corner not work for you?
    Thursday, December 20, 2012 4:44 PM
  • Even if it does work for him, one word comes to mind:  Discoverability

    A good UI has it.  Microsoft added that animated hint about moving the mouse into the corners at the right side of the display during installation.  As I recall it mentions nothing about the bottom-left corner.

    And note that the choice of corner doesn't change if you move the Taskbar to the top of the display.

    The whole thing has the smell of change for the sake of change only.  What would you think if they moved the trigger on your weapon to where you had to depress an unmarked place on the stock with your thumb?

        

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:09 PM
  • Even if it does work for him, one word comes to mind:  Discoverability

    A good UI has it.  Microsoft added that animated hint about moving the mouse into the corners at the right side of the display during installation.  As I recall it mentions nothing about the bottom-left corner.

    And note that the choice of corner doesn't change if you move the Taskbar to the top of the display.

    The whole thing has the smell of change for the sake of change only.  What would you think if they moved the trigger on your weapon to where you had to depress an unmarked place on the stock with your thumb?

        

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options


    I'm in agreement with you on the discoverability part. Their hint animation needs a little work. However once found I think it's quite nice. As far as changing where my trigger goes, I would have to try it first. Might be entertaining! ;) 
    Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:11 PM
  • I hate it with a passion. The convenient multi-tool right click facility doesn't work on emails. I can't copy & paste or print easily. I hate the start menu. I can't resize a tile either. Can't even work out how to reply to an email! Of course it doesn't come with a manual. The instructions to get it started were in a foreign language! Can find "My computer" to change things back to what I'm used to. Its too hard!! I miss my old computer!!
    Friday, December 21, 2012 4:44 AM
  • My experience with Windows 8 is that it doesn't run any of the work software I need, won't open more than one application at a time and what it does run is slow and of questionable quality. I can no longer even read my Kindle on the foolish thing, just get a black screen and when I try to download pictures they simply disappear.

    So I go to the desktop, completely ignoring the whole application start window debacle and it is much slower than Windows 7, download times are painful and there is absolutely no added functionality whatsoever, but a significant loss of quality. This laptop is far superior to my old cheap one which is on its last legs. Windows 8 came with the new one, I had no need to upgrade but assumed, wrongly, that Microsoft would turn out a decent product, having learned its lesson with Vista. I was clearly wrong. To be sure I was being fair I have tried tasks on this laptop right alongside my old Windows 7 laptop and Windows 7 beats Windows 8 every time in every category.

    Essentially with Windows 8 on a laptop with plenty of power it takes me several extra steps to struggle to do poorly what I could easily do, and do better, on a cheap crappy laptop with Windows 7. The worst part is that Microsoft will never apologize for disrespecting its customers this way but they will continue to wonder why they are losing business. If they didn't strong arm everyone into getting computers shipped with their poorly designed products they wouldn't have any business at all.

    For shame Microsoft, for shame.

    Monday, December 24, 2012 8:45 PM
  • ...assumed, wrongly, that Microsoft would turn out a decent product...


    That's the heart of what makes it so disappointing to knowledgeable people right there, and is worth noting in big letters.  When you set the bar, you're expected to at least equal your prior accomplishments.  Bold and Reimagined have left the building, so let's hope they can get back on the straight and narrow and get back down to the business of making serious computer operating systems, or we're all going to be going in strange new directions soon.

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Monday, December 24, 2012 11:46 PM
  • ...assumed, wrongly, that Microsoft would turn out a decent product...


    That's the heart of what makes it so disappointing to knowledgeable people right there, and is worth noting in big letters.  When you set the bar, you're expected to at least equal your prior accomplishments.  Bold and Reimagined have left the building, so let's hope they can get back on the straight and narrow and get back down to the business of making serious computer operating systems, or we're all going to be going in strange new directions soon.

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

     

    I am afraid that "making serious computer operating systems" is not going to happen.  Not at Microsoft, anyway.  I had to listen recently to a number of analysts, who apparently had Microsoft internal information and it seems that the direction is exactly the opposite from what you desire.  Microsoft is going to double-down on Metro.  Have no doubt about it.  In fact, Microsoft is determined to become the "third" player in mobile OSes.  Thus, most elements of the desktop would disappear from Windows RT (the ARM version) and it would atrophy even further in Windows 8, when an update is released in late 2013.

    Soon, it would be time to say farewell to Windows. 

    Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:06 AM
  • I have a Ph.D. in a technology management related field. I also hate Windows 8 and see it as a huge step backwards. I have been using computers for a long time and I figure out how to use even the most un-user friendly programs, and I am familiar with using DOS and DOS commands with computers before there was Windows.

    I believe that every version of Windows I have ever used from Windows 3.1 on up was easier to use than Windows 8. My point is not that I can not or have not learned to use the features in Windows 8. I can use it and figure it out and would live with it if that is "all there is." But I have spent many years teaching computers and applications to the general public including K-12 and older adults (senior citizens). I think it is a HUGE mistake to make an OS (and put it on all new computers as a standard) that is LESS user friendly than previous versions.

    I know from teaching this, that for those users who are not natural computer lovers who want to learn all the new tweaks and tricks just to get up and running, but who still need and want to be able to use their computer, this OS is just going to really suck, and I feel for them. I found the push to sign up for a Microsoft email account before I can really get going with this computer as just disgusting. For example, I want to use Skype with previous email address and settings, but when I went to download Skype, I naturally thought I should get the Windows 8 version since I have Windows 8. Wrong. If you want to use your old settings and sign on information, and not add on that new stupid Microsoft Account, you better get the Desktop version for "others" (not Windows 8).

    I am putting Ubuntu (dual boot) on my laptop and will use that whenever I don't absolutely need Windows for the work I am doing.

    I'm not totally against MS having an OS for tablets and marketing it, and even having it be compatable with desktop and laptop apps. But they need a one click setting for the OS so that it looks and behaves very much like the previous desktop OS (Windows 7 or before). So far, clicking "desktop" on that metro screen does NOT lock in anything, and it seems like random accidental clicks or touches/mouse moves bring up undesirable crap all over my screen including accidental resizing of everything. Very annoying.

    Thursday, January 10, 2013 10:50 AM
  • seems like random accidental clicks or touches/mouse moves bring up undesirable crap all over my screen including accidental resizing of everything.

    Sounds like you may have a similar problem that I just started having.   It's actually due to spurious interrupts from the hardware and demonstrates how brittle the usability is in W8 when it comes to imperfect hardware.   There is a YouTube post which shows that this is "by design"...  

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4cIA26RsII

    So, what I am doing is disabling my Multi-touch support and switching to pen only.   Less annoyance that way.   Curiously W7 is not exhibiting this problem.   OTOH there is less possibility of it happening there.   In my case (coincidentally?) the "spurious interrupts" all center where some Metro apps feature advertising links so I kept getting unrequested popups from them as the worst annoyance.   Also, (coincidentally?) since installing the newest version of Microsoft Mouse and Keyboard Center I have been getting spurious interrupts from previously perfectly performing hardware.   More annoyance from that.

    Maybe they think it is good policy to stop trying to deal with imperfect hardware, e.g. with the idea that it may be replaced sooner.  However, like many others this is just making me curious about seeing how adaptive Linux can be to let me continue using what I have now with less irritation.

     

    Robert
    ---

    Thursday, January 10, 2013 4:40 PM
  • ...assumed, wrongly, that Microsoft would turn out a decent product...


    That's the heart of what makes it so disappointing to knowledgeable people right there, and is worth noting in big letters.  When you set the bar, you're expected to at least equal your prior accomplishments.  Bold and Reimagined have left the building, so let's hope they can get back on the straight and narrow and get back down to the business of making serious computer operating systems, or we're all going to be going in strange new directions soon.

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Noel,  how soon do you think would Microsoft delete this thread too????
    Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:45 PM

  • Maybe they think it is good policy to stop trying to deal with imperfect hardware, e.g. with the idea that it may be replaced sooner.  However, like many others this is just making me curious about seeing how adaptive Linux can be to let me continue using what I have now with less irritation.

    Robert

    Robert, Microsoft is in the process of deleting threads critical to Win8, so I am not sure how long this thread would last.  But straight up to your question.  Linux is nowhere near to take the role of Windows as the premier desktop OS.  Unfortunately, your only alternative at this time is the Mac (OSX).  With Parallels and Fusion 5, an OSX machine would allow you to continue using what you have with "less irritation".  Now, if you are brave enough, you may attempt building a "Hackindosh" but, of course, you are not going to get any support from Apple.

    Until OEMs decide to really back up Linux on the desktop, we are going nowhere there.  What is needed is a version of Parallels or Fusion 5 for Linux.  Considering that OSX and Linux are versions of Unix, this may not be too hard to achieve but the respective companies (such as VMWare) obviously do not see a market there.  Dell is producing laptops and desktops with Linux preinstalled; if you want to go towards this solution, you can buy one of these systems and install VMWare's Workstation 8 for Linux, which would allow you to install a Win7 OS.  It is not as elegant a solution as Fusion 5, but it would allow you to use native Linux apps and switch to Windows when you need to.   Valve has now a beta of Steam for Linux, so gaming support may become native soon to Linux.

    I think that there is one company that can make Linux a definitive player.  This is Adobe.  If Adobe produces a version of the Creative Suite for the Linux, then, most users would not need much of an access to Windows (there are lots of productivity suites for Linux). 

    Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:59 PM
  • Install the Pokki app ;)
    Wednesday, February 06, 2013 5:24 AM
  • Not completely true.  I was perfectly happy with Win 7 on my workstation, but needed Win 8 to do Windows Phone 8 development.  It's not supported on Win 7.  So I stuck it on a laptop.  Getting used to it...
    Wednesday, February 06, 2013 5:28 AM
  • Not completely true.  I was perfectly happy with Win 7 on my workstation, but needed Win 8 to do Windows Phone 8 development.  It's not supported on Win 7.  So I stuck it on a laptop.  Getting used to it...
    I am sure that you can used to some really awful things too.  I find it peculiar that you cannot do development for WinPhone 8.  I suppose that the SDK would not install in a Win7 system.  This is certainly weird.
    Wednesday, February 06, 2013 6:35 AM
  • I agree with you. I am frustrated that I have to make so many moves and toggle between screens to get anything done. Either I don't know how to use the system or it is built to look like an iPad. I hate the tiles - there is no start menu - and when I click on an attachment in an email it open up in the 'app' setting and instead of another window and I cannot look at my web browser and the attachment at the same time unless I split the screen which is obnoxious to say the least - you cannot read anything on the smaller of the screens and it only gives you two setting.

    I, too, want to minimize the tiles - or hide them - get rid of them - etc. What is frusrtating is that I got this new system when I bought a new computer - I wanted the older one - I feel it was more user friendly.

    Thursday, April 18, 2013 4:00 PM
  • I agree with you. I am frustrated that I have to make so many moves and toggle between screens to get anything done. Either I don't know how to use the system or it is built to look like an iPad. I hate the tiles - there is no start menu - and when I click on an attachment in an email it open up in the 'app' setting and instead of another window and I cannot look at my web browser and the attachment at the same time unless I split the screen which is obnoxious to say the least - you cannot read anything on the smaller of the screens and it only gives you two setting.

    I, too, want to minimize the tiles - or hide them - get rid of them - etc. What is frusrtating is that I got this new system when I bought a new computer - I wanted the older one - I feel it was more user friendly.

    If your system came with Win8 Pro, you are allowed to downgrade to Win7 Pro.  You will find instructions of how to do this in a variety of sites.  Here is one of them:

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2417359,00.asp

    There are many third party tools that can make "Metro" disappear, allow you to boot directly to the desktop and restore the Start button. 

    Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:19 PM
  • I cannot look at my web browser and the attachment at the same time unless I split the screen


    Attach a second monitor and you won't be so concerned about the tiles or the limitations of the Modern UI split screen function.
    Thursday, April 18, 2013 9:02 PM
  • Keep in mind virtually everything you can do in Metro/Modern land you can do with desktop applications, so if somehow a downgrade eludes you there are alternatives.  I sure as hell wouldn't rely on the full-screen/big-font side for anything useful.  Just ignore that part - maybe it'll go away.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Friday, April 19, 2013 12:56 AM
  • Keep in mind virtually everything you can do in Metro/Modern land you can do with desktop applications, so if somehow a downgrade eludes you there are alternatives.  I sure as hell wouldn't rely on the full-screen/big-font side for anything useful.  Just ignore that part - maybe it'll go away.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    If this guy hates Win8, I can assure you that the OEMs hate it even more.  I am sure that you would enjoy the following articles:

    http://bgr.com/2013/04/18/windows-8-oem-criticism-447837/?utm_source=trending-widget&utm_medium=home

    http://bgr.com/2013/04/10/windows-8-pc-shipments-analysis-429262/


    • Edited by ADRz Friday, April 19, 2013 5:21 AM
    Friday, April 19, 2013 5:20 AM
  • I might still buy a new PC workstation today (if I needed one, which I don't as I bought a high-end workstation 7 months ago) - but it would have to have a Windows 7 downgrade on it.  But high-end workstations don't carry the market - massive sales of cheap models finance development.  If people don't have good software to run on them, well...  Massive fail.

    If "Blue" starts to turn back and make Windows 8 more serious again it *might* start to change things.  But is it too little too late?  Clearly it's difficult to predict with any certainty where Microsoft's going, but we could see that Windows 7 was already getting more "fluffy" for consumers though it kept many of the goods where it mattered (notwithstanding things like xpclient's excellent lists of features removed in Vista and Windows 7).  Now we may be losing critical mass.

    While a certain amount of tidying up and window dressing is good, excepting a few specific things it's been a long time since we've seen a lot of true OS innovation in Windows.  Microsoft needs to realize the OS has to have the guts to also bask in the glory.

    It's been "Marketized" to death...  Perhaps leadership needs to be shifted back to some uber-geeks with vision.

     

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    • Edited by Noel Carboni Friday, April 19, 2013 6:10 PM wording
    Friday, April 19, 2013 6:06 PM
  • Just want to express my agreement with every derogatory statement about Win8. I bought a new expensive laptop and had no choice. I workaround by instantly clicking Desktop and pretending I'm in Win7. I've set up icons and shortcuts on the Desktop so I only have to go to the "Metro" (what a stupid name) screen on initial bootup. I hate that I have to do more moves just to get to shut my computer down. I hate that there's nothing intuitive (and no useful manual). And I've considered taking this expensive laptop to my local computer guy and having him take Win8 off and putting Win7 on. But you know what Microsoft is going to do, of course. They're going to stop support of Win7 and I'll be stuck. Another problem is that all my software doesn't like Win8. Even my brand new fancy-schmanzy NEW ON THE MARKET monitor that I use with the laptop when at home came with a CD to install drivers that won't even load with Win8. And last, but not least, I've had to do a System Restore about 5 times so far because this stupid OS gets its knickers in a twist so easily. The time I've spent on this - - - -. I got stuck with ME and Vista when I bought new computers. Now I get Win8, which will fall by the wayside like ME and Vista. Did I say thanks, Bill? (Yes, I know Bill's not there but there are still those hacker/gremlin 20 year olds working there and noodling around just to noodle around and coming up with S**T like Win8. What do they care?)

    Saturday, April 20, 2013 4:47 PM
  • Just want to express my agreement with every derogatory statement about Win8. I bought a new expensive laptop and had no choice. I workaround by instantly clicking Desktop and pretending I'm in Win7. I've set up icons and shortcuts on the Desktop so I only have to go to the "Metro" (what a stupid name) screen on initial bootup. I hate that I have to do more moves just to get to shut my computer down. I hate that there's nothing intuitive (and no useful manual). And I've considered taking this expensive laptop to my local computer guy and having him take Win8 off and putting Win7 on. But you know what Microsoft is going to do, of course. They're going to stop support of Win7 and I'll be stuck. Another problem is that all my software doesn't like Win8. Even my brand new fancy-schmanzy NEW ON THE MARKET monitor that I use with the laptop when at home came with a CD to install drivers that won't even load with Win8. And last, but not least, I've had to do a System Restore about 5 times so far because this stupid OS gets its knickers in a twist so easily. The time I've spent on this - - - -. I got stuck with ME and Vista when I bought new computers. Now I get Win8, which will fall by the wayside like ME and Vista. Did I say thanks, Bill? (Yes, I know Bill's not there but there are still those hacker/gremlin 20 year olds working there and noodling around just to noodle around and coming up with S**T like Win8. What do they care?)

    Assuming that your computer has Win8 Pro, you can downgrade to Win7 Pro officially without problems. Win7 support ends in 2020, as already announced.  However, as with XP, if Win7 is the dominant OS, Microsoft would have no choice but to extent the support deadlines. 

    I will not blame the young programmers at Microsoft for this mess.  This was a marketing department "design" to "hit" all potential upcoming "issues".  I believe that if Bill Gates was there, this would have never happened.  Allard and Ozzie (who were his successors) were forced to retire when the Sinofski-led "solution" obtain support from the corner office. 

    Officially, Microsoft has stated in its earnings call that it would "respond positively to user and customer input and complaints".  I do not know what this means exactly, but the rumors are flying thick that this means booting directly to the desktop and the return of the Start Button.  We will see.

    Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:45 PM
  • Well, I sure wouldn't want to hear, on a conference call, that a company was planning to respond negatively to user and customer input and complaints!

    I wonder what the difference might be between users and customers.  I hate that executives think they need to think up more words than are needed to say something, like they're some kind of special breed.

       

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Sunday, April 21, 2013 11:21 PM
  • Well, I sure wouldn't want to hear, on a conference call, that a company was planning to respond negatively to user and customer input and complaints!

    I wonder what the difference might be between users and customers.  I hate that executives think they need to think up more words than are needed to say something, like they're some kind of special breed.

       

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Noel, I think that Microsoft could have said absolutely nothing.  That they chose this comment is quite telling.  I think that it is code for "we heard you that Win8 stinks and we plan to change this".   It is also telling that the one number that Microsoft did not reveal is the number of Win8 licenses sold.  Don't you think?
    Monday, April 22, 2013 2:04 AM
  • I completely agree with this statement.  Don't insult me by stating I don't know what I want.
    Tuesday, April 23, 2013 1:55 PM
  • Assuming that your computer has Win8 Pro, you can downgrade to Win7 Pro officially without problems. 


    Have you actually done this firsthand? Because it's always been a major hassle to downgrade - especially the need to, totally on your own, locate a valid license key for a prior version. If this is just something you have heard and read about, then let's assume it's as much a problem as it has always been!
    Monday, May 13, 2013 2:43 PM
  • See the following link, to take a closer look at the downgrading process from win8 to win7:

    http://www.howtogeek.com/133168/how-to-downgrade-windows-8-pro-to-windows-7/

    Monday, May 13, 2013 4:05 PM
  • See the following link, to take a closer look at the downgrading process from win8 to win7:

    http://www.howtogeek.com/133168/how-to-downgrade-windows-8-pro-to-windows-7/

    Exactly... this article confirms that the downgrade process is as horribly flawed, broken and problematic as it ever was.

    I.e. "To downgrade Windows, you’ll need a Windows 7 Professional installation disc and a valid license key for it. Neither Microsoft nor your computer manufacturer will provide this disc or key for you – you’re on your own when finding it, although Microsoft insists you should find a legitimate copy instead of downloading one from an illicit website... You’ll need to activate by phone. Call up the phone number displayed in the activation window and explain that you’re exercising your Windows 8 Pro downgrade rights".

    Monday, May 13, 2013 4:35 PM
  • http://www.howtogeek.com/133168/how-to-downgrade-windows-8-pro-to-windows-7/

    Exactly... this article confirms that the downgrade process is as horribly flawed, broken and problematic as it ever was.

    Well, in all seriousness do you think Microsoft would do anything to ease the pain of walking away from their beloved App Store?

    So buy from manufacturers such as Dell who offer downgrades during the ordering process.  If nobody buys Windows 8 Microsoft will get the message.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Wednesday, May 15, 2013 11:54 AM