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Multiple vDisk Shared Nothing Live Migration Question

    Question

  • Hey everyone,

    I have two Hyper-V 2012 servers using two tiers of local storage. Tier 1 is pure SSD storage which I intend to use for the system/application virtual disk and tier 2 which is regular RAID 10 HDDs to be used for secondary virtual disks in case a VM needs extra capacity focused storage.

    If I do a migration of a VM from one host to the other, how can I ensure the virtual disks are going to like for like tiered storage?

    Thursday, July 04, 2013 6:19 AM

Answers

  • Hey everyone,

    I have two Hyper-V 2012 servers using two tiers of local storage. Tier 1 is pure SSD storage which I intend to use for the system/application virtual disk and tier 2 which is regular RAID 10 HDDs to be used for secondary virtual disks in case a VM needs extra capacity focused storage.

    If I do a migration of a VM from one host to the other, how can I ensure the virtual disks are going to like for like tiered storage?

    You need to use third-party storage virtualization solution representing both tiers as a single LUN *now* or wait for Windows Server 2012 R2 as it will do what you want to do automatically with a tiered storage spaces. My bet is - wait on R2 arrival. See:

    http://blog.marcosnogueira.org/2013/06/20/overview-of-server-virtualization-with-windows-server-2012-r2/


    StarWind iSCSI SAN & NAS

    • Proposed as answer by ServiceTrouble Thursday, July 04, 2013 1:57 PM
    • Marked as answer by Johnny Wonder Thursday, July 04, 2013 10:32 PM
    Thursday, July 04, 2013 9:39 AM

All replies

  • Hi

    What is your goal exactly ?

    See my understanding  is OK?

    you want to migrate a VM from one host to another host adn in another host the VM put in SSD Storage ?


    I Love God,because he help me to find Technet.

    Thursday, July 04, 2013 8:34 AM
  • Hey everyone,

    I have two Hyper-V 2012 servers using two tiers of local storage. Tier 1 is pure SSD storage which I intend to use for the system/application virtual disk and tier 2 which is regular RAID 10 HDDs to be used for secondary virtual disks in case a VM needs extra capacity focused storage.

    If I do a migration of a VM from one host to the other, how can I ensure the virtual disks are going to like for like tiered storage?

    You need to use third-party storage virtualization solution representing both tiers as a single LUN *now* or wait for Windows Server 2012 R2 as it will do what you want to do automatically with a tiered storage spaces. My bet is - wait on R2 arrival. See:

    http://blog.marcosnogueira.org/2013/06/20/overview-of-server-virtualization-with-windows-server-2012-r2/


    StarWind iSCSI SAN & NAS

    • Proposed as answer by ServiceTrouble Thursday, July 04, 2013 1:57 PM
    • Marked as answer by Johnny Wonder Thursday, July 04, 2013 10:32 PM
    Thursday, July 04, 2013 9:39 AM
  • Hi

    What is your goal exactly ?

    See my understanding  is OK?

    you want to migrate a VM from one host to another host adn in another host the VM put in SSD Storage ?

    That's possible. But it's doing everything "with hands". You'll have to know is VM "hot" or "cold" and should it belong to flash or spindle accordingly.

    StarWind iSCSI SAN & NAS

    Thursday, July 04, 2013 9:40 AM
  • Interesting stuff. Some other great stuff in there too by the looks.  I've read sometime this year as an eta for R2 release. Anyone have something more concrete than that?
    Thursday, July 04, 2013 2:01 PM
  • You need to use third-party storage virtualization solution representing both tiers as a single LUN *now* or wait for Windows Server 2012 R2 as it will do what you want to do automatically with a tiered storage spaces. My bet is - wait on R2 arrival. See:

    http://blog.marcosnogueira.org/2013/06/20/overview-of-server-virtualization-with-windows-server-2012-r2/


    StarWind iSCSI SAN & NAS

    This looks exactly what I'm looking for. Will there be an in place upgrade path to R2, or is it a case of start again?
    Thursday, July 04, 2013 10:33 PM
  • You don't need R2 for what you're trying to do. If your two hosts are in a cluster and the VM is in shared storage, the VM's storage doesn't move from where it is. If they're not clustered, you can direct where individual files go:

    If you're going to be moving the VMs back and forth a lot, it would be a good idea to script it with the Move-VMStorage cmdlet. The second example shows how to craft a hash table array so you can place your VHD[X] files where you want them.

    Edit: Actually, if you're moving between hosts, you need Move-VM. The -Vhds parameter works the same way, though.


    Eric Siron
    http://www.altaro.com/hyper-v/


    • Edited by Eric Siron Friday, July 05, 2013 3:21 PM Move-VM
    Friday, July 05, 2013 3:15 PM
  • You don't need R2 for what you're trying to do. If your two hosts are in a cluster and the VM is in shared storage, the VM's storage doesn't move from where it is. If they're not clustered, you can direct where individual files go:

    [  /// ]

    That's a "home brewed" tiering when you choose where to move your VM to: flash or spindle. R2 will automate this as you'll just move VM to a tiered storage space and will go either to flash or spindle.

    StarWind iSCSI SAN & NAS

    Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:55 PM
  • The question was not "how do I get automatic storage tiering in Hyper-V Server 2012". It was "how can I ensure the virtual disks are going to like for like tiered storage?" Automatic storage tiering does not ensure like-to-like.

    Storage administrators in the real world performing real business functions have been manually tiering storage for many years. It is not a "home brew" solution. It is an every-day data center task. That is why it is baked into the wizard. R2 is not a complete solution as it will only automatically tier if you use Storage Spaces, which not everyone will do.


    Eric Siron
    http://www.altaro.com/hyper-v/

    Saturday, July 06, 2013 4:45 PM
  • The question was not "how do I get automatic storage tiering in Hyper-V Server 2012". It was "how can I ensure the virtual disks are going to like for like tiered storage?" Automatic storage tiering does not ensure like-to-like.

    Storage administrators in the real world performing real business functions have been manually tiering storage for many years. It is not a "home brew" solution. It is an every-day data center task. That is why it is baked into the wizard. R2 is not a complete solution as it will only automatically tier if you use Storage Spaces, which not everyone will do.

    1) That's your understanding of the question :)

    2) There's nothing wrong with the wording "home brewed" :) 

    3) Storage Spaces is a logical volume manager Microsoft is assuming you to use. So all the new features like double parity RAIDs, clustering, tiering etc are built on top of it. You can ignore it (just like you can drive your turbo charged car in a low rpm zone so turbo has no chance to kick) but it makes zero sense. You paid for it so give it a chance using it :)


    StarWind iSCSI SAN & NAS

    Sunday, July 07, 2013 3:38 PM
  • My "understanding"? This is not a course on ancient Chinese philosophy. This is a technical forum where we give direct answers to direct questions. The individual directly asked if he could make a like-to-like move of data; you erroneously told him that he could not do it without a third-party solution and that he should wait for a solution that also will not do it. I have corrected your error. The product that is available in RTM today will do it today. He can start today and then, if automatic tiering is really what he wants, he can easily upgrade when R2 goes RTM. He does not need to "wait on R2 arrival".

    "Home brewed" is a solution to a situation that the product designers did not create a direct built-in solution for, often in use cases that they did not envision. "Home brewed" is a colloquialism for "workaround". Because Microsoft provides four explicit methods (that I know of) to make directed data moves and like-to-like manually orchestrated transfers are a normative event, this is not a "home brewed" solution in any sense. Your application of the term is incorrect.

    "Makes zero sense"? Tell you what, I'll give you the number to our vMax/vPlex administrator and you can tell him to switch off all of their features so we can use a software-based solution instead, since what he's doing "makes zero sense". You'll let us know how that call goes, won't you? It's not even just enterprise storage, since the ongoing commoditization in the storage industry means you can get an impressive subset of those features in readily-available SMB-grade hardware as well. Storage Spaces is very fine technology when it is applicable and there are plenty of places for it, but not everyone will use it. It's not because, as you imply, that we don't know what we're doing. No competent storage administrator would ever forgo on-hand hardware-based solutions for a software overlay.


    Eric Siron
    http://www.altaro.com/hyper-v/

    Sunday, July 07, 2013 7:37 PM
  • My "understanding"? This is not a course on ancient Chinese philosophy. This is a technical forum where we give direct answers to direct questions. The individual directly asked if he could make a like-to-like move of data; you erroneously told him that he could not do it without a third-party solution and that he should wait for a solution that also will not do it. I have corrected your error. The product that is available in RTM today will do it today. He can start today and then, if automatic tiering is really what he wants, he can easily upgrade when R2 goes RTM. He does not need to "wait on R2 arrival".

    "Home brewed" is a solution to a situation that the product designers did not create a direct built-in solution for, often in use cases that they did not envision. "Home brewed" is a colloquialism for "workaround". Because Microsoft provides four explicit methods (that I know of) to make directed data moves and like-to-like manually orchestrated transfers are a normative event, this is not a "home brewed" solution in any sense. Your application of the term is incorrect.

    "Makes zero sense"? Tell you what, I'll give you the number to our vMax/vPlex administrator and you can tell him to switch off all of their features so we can use a software-based solution instead, since what he's doing "makes zero sense". You'll let us know how that call goes, won't you? It's not even just enterprise storage, since the ongoing commoditization in the storage industry means you can get an impressive subset of those features in readily-available SMB-grade hardware as well. Storage Spaces is very fine technology when it is applicable and there are plenty of places for it, but not everyone will use it. It's not because, as you imply, that we don't know what we're doing. No competent storage administrator would ever forgo on-hand hardware-based solutions for a software overlay.


    1) That's what OP wrote. But OF COURSE you know better :) 

    This looks exactly what I'm looking for. Will there be an in place upgrade path to R2, or is it a case of start again?

    2) You need to grab an English dictionary and look for a "home brewed" term. I did. Just to figure out it has NOTHING to

    do with your understanding of it's meaing. But we're on technical forum so I'm leaving this to you. OF COURSE you know better :)

    3) Catch up with the times buddy. Software defined storage is knocking data centers door and software defined networking is already in. In a couple of years nobody will remember your NetApp addicted administrator. Big companies

    don't ran storage on a dedicated hardware already and there's virtually zero sense for anybody from SMB doing this either. But again... OF COURSE you know better :)

    Piece! (c) ...

    P.S. If you're attending Microsoft Partner Conference now you're welcomed to visit our booth to shake hands :)


    StarWind iSCSI SAN & NAS

    Sunday, July 07, 2013 8:47 PM
  • I'm perfectly aware of what the OP wrote later. I'm also aware of what he said initially, and what will show up in search engines for other people looking for what he asked for initially. He, and they, can have that right now. Today. No waiting.

    We're going to argue about the dictionary now? OK, fine. No formal dictionary I can find lists any colloquial definition for "home brewed" at all. They only show the literal and a Canadian usage. But, if we will restrict ourselves to the dictionary definition, please explain how using a built-in wizard function to move storage as desired has anything to do with brewing an alcoholic beverage, since you insist on using the dictionary and you were the person who introduced that term to the conversation. I did find one "technical" definition, and it doesn't suit your usage either. Targeted storage relocation is a built-in feature of Hyper-V Server 2012, not something that some script kiddie dreamed up in back alley. Period. How, exactly, do you intend to shoehorn that into any definition of "home brew"?

    I work at a 5,000 user institution that is a division of a major university with something like 30,000 students. Does that count as "big" in your dictionary? We use dedicated storage hardware today and we will continue to do so for quite some time, just like plenty of other actual "big" companies. Our storage team is tasked with getting the best performance and features per dollar for our organization, and they do a fine job despite StarWind's snarky attempts to make them look like backwater fools. If ripping out all our equipment and replacing it with higher wattage, lower capacity general purpose computers to get a subset of our current feature-set was the way to go, it would have been done already. Why would you call vMax/vPlex administrators "NetApp-addicted", anyway? Don't you know who makes vMax and vPlex?


    Eric Siron
    http://www.altaro.com/hyper-v/

    Sunday, July 07, 2013 10:19 PM