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Will you include an option to switch back to the office "classic" menu in Office 2010?
Will you include an option to switch back to the office "classic" menu in Office 2010?
- Hello,
I would like an option to switch back to the "classic" menu in Office 2010. "Classic" being the menu that was included with Office 2003.
I have nothing against the new menu, but my dad hates it, and a lot of old people I know hate it.
I think this would be a good option to stop them complaining :).
Regards,
Peter
Answers
- Office 2010 - Resolution of Drop menu Issue (for me and hopefully quite a few other users)
I have been enormously frustrated by the changes in Office 2007 which I have mentioned before as I felt it handicapped users with specific requirements. Even though the Ribbon was extensively tested on many targets group the final set of commands available pandered to simple options and most frequently required solutions to the majority of users and and newbies. I have used customized tool bars for years for short-cuts method dependent on the type of work required which MS's standard tool bars did not cater for. For instance Font Substitution and organizer I use many times during the day which a lot of people do not.
Well I think it's patently obvious by now that the old drop down tool-bars will not reurned in any form and even Open Office is likely to follow the ribbon model. I have finally had the opportunity to get into the guts of Office 2010 Technical Preview and at the very least my prayers have been answered. Although it won't replace drop-down menus at least Microsoft have now given access to make the Ribbon customizable - this is manna from heaven.
I have had a look at both Word and PowerPoint and if you click on the coloured application button in either programme then select Word or PowerPoint options you can then select Customize Ribbon. Not only does this allow to add a new named tab but a group and add any commands that you wish. Further to this you can rename the tab, Export all Ribbon and QAT Customizations. Import a Customization File or Restore Defaults. In addition Word also allows you to customize Keyboard Shortcuts.
Frankly this is the answer to all my issues and I hope it will allow other users to be more productive using the Ribbon interface. This will allow the user the access to the commands they require as fast and effeciently as possible.
Hope this work for many of you too.
Kind Regards
Brad
- Marked As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:55 AM
All Replies
- I want that option too. I love the ribbon, but I know many people who think it's too difficult to use the ribbon. A classic menu option will be really appreciated!! :D
- Proposed As Answer byXCheese360 Thursday, May 14, 2009 6:53 AM
- to keep things balanced I'll say I *don't* want that ;-)
- Proposed As Answer bySimon Jones - MSDL Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:20 AM
- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Monday, May 18, 2009 7:10 PM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:12 AM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Friday, May 15, 2009 1:12 AM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:35 PM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 10:45 PM
- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Thursday, May 14, 2009 4:05 PM
- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:05 PM
to keep things balanced I'll say I *don't* want that ;-)
Why don't you want this option?
Many people are still using Office 2003 because they don't like the ribbon.- Let me guess, you dont like that Windows 7 doesnt have the classic option as well?
Jon - I say no. Its so simple, once you get used to it. Nothing is hidden in the menus like before. And I hope Microsoft makes it imposable for someone to create the classic view for this.
I say no. Its so simple, once you get used to it. Nothing is hidden in the menus like before.
Yes, but most people, like "normale people" think it's too difficult for them to use the ribbon. (I don't know why, because I love the ribbon).
Our school is still using Office 2003 because a few teachers don't want to use Office 2007 because of the ribbon. So if our school won't use Office 2007, Microsoft won't get money for the licenses and that may be bad for Microsoft.- Proposed As Answer byXCheese360 Thursday, May 14, 2009 6:53 AM
- then perhaps they could offer a video tour of the new ribbon? Show an actual person using the program, and not hidden behind a mic.
- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:36 AM
While I don't understand some of the logic behind where things are in the ribbon, it just takes some perserverance, repetition (which is how one learns).
It is not the easiest thing to learn I agree, but it is learnable (anyone with instant gratification requirements will not be happy with the amount of repetition needed to learn it, however).
I don't have a problem giving people the choice, but personally I would push everyone to learn the "new" way and not continue in their status quo world. Why go backward?
I've trained people on 2007, and no one has had any issued learning the ribbon. It's all about the training.
And to dispute one point you made, Peter, there are lots of "old" people who embrace change and have no problems learning new things (me being one of them)!- Don't get me wrong, I love the new menu!..
However, I think that Microsoft would really be able to squeeze the dollars out of Office 2010 if they included an option for people to change back.
Some people are very ignorant, and don't want to learn new things.
I agree with Stephen's point 100%. I would love our college to upgrade as well, but some of the teachers are holding that back because of the new ribbon.
I would love to see an option for the old and the new.
Regards,
Peter- Proposed As Answer byXCheese360 Thursday, May 14, 2009 6:53 AM
- There is an interactive command reference guide which is great for showing you where all the Office 2003 commands are within the Office 2007 interface. I have used this many a time and most of my customers keep it on hand too. This is a quick way to ease the pain of migration.
I have provided links below to both a online and downloadable version for each guide . Note: the online version requires flash installed.
Regards
Matt
Online version
Word:
http://office.microsoft.com/assistance/asstvid.aspx?assetid=XT100766331033&vwidth=1044&vheight=788&type=flash&CTT=11&Origin=HA100744321033
Excel:
http://office.microsoft.com/assistance/asstvid.aspx?assetid=XT101493291033&vwidth=1044&vheight=788&type=flash&CTT=11&Origin=HA101491511033
Outlook:
http://office.microsoft.com/assistance/asstvid.aspx?assetid=XT102221751033&vwidth=1044&vheight=788&type=flash&CTT=11&Origin=HA102221621033
PowerPoint:
http://office.microsoft.com/assistance/asstvid.aspx?assetid=XT101493271033&vwidth=1044&vheight=788&type=flash&CTT=11&Origin=HA101490761033
Access:
http://office.microsoft.com/assistance/asstvid.aspx?assetid=XT102389151033&vwidth=1044&vheight=788&type=flash&CTT=11&Origin=HA102388991033
Downloadable Version:
Word:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=9044790B-4E24-4277-B714-66D7B18D0AA1&displaylang=en
Excel:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=89718ABD-2758-47B3-9F90-93788112B985&displaylang=en
Outlook:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=CC37CC1E-028D-4D30-9093-96CC6513ECA1&displaylang=en
PowerPoint:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=BEF41DC3-8E28-4282-82D4-CEC2F416CD40&displaylang=en
Access:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=B9574C72-657F-438C-9DE9-F8F70DD2D40D&displaylang=en- Proposed As Answer byUte SimonMVPSaturday, May 23, 2009 2:49 PM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Monday, July 06, 2009 2:01 AM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Sunday, May 24, 2009 4:17 AM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:12 AM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:59 AM
- Proposed As Answer byStorm Search Thursday, June 18, 2009 1:17 AM
- Proposed As Answer byTAHames Wednesday, May 13, 2009 3:17 PM
- Unmarked As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:10 PM
- Marked As Answer byJoe DEliaMSFT, OwnerTuesday, October 27, 2009 5:33 PM
- Proposed As Answer bySimon Jones - MSDL Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:21 AM
- When I first started using 2007 I didn't like the ribbon system. I didn't (still don't) think it looked as smart. Also, I found it a pain at first trying to locate various functions. However, I continued to use it, and spent some time learning how to create the XML ribbon. Now I can say that whilst I still don't much like the looks, the ribbon itself is a great creation. It is so much easier to design, once you've got to grips with it, and it is fairly easy to locate things now.
And for those of us who like to use their fingers, the old keyboard shortcuts are still in use. So many people won't even notice they're using it.
The product has moved on, time for the users to do the same. - Hi No way dont return to the old menus the ribbon and the tabs are so easy to use its probably they have not had it explainded to them do you know there is now 1500 commands in word 2007 compared to 250 in 2003 version this is the only way they could display them - thank goodness they got rid of the old tool bars cant wait for 2010 - there was about 8 million user trials and real eye tme observations when i used it at first i thought i had died and gone to heaven then about 2 weeks later i thought i would need to get another job as i could not get on with it then it suddenly just clicked....
And how easy is it to use tables now!!!
Blue- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:13 AM
- Proposed As Answer bySimon Jones - MSDL Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:22 AM
- I don't think some of you people get it. To spell it out clearly.
I want an OPTION to revert back to the "classic" menu, I do not want to force this upon people. Tuck the option away in the settings menu for all I care.
The new ribbon should be the default menu, however, it is very wise to make things backwards compatible, because some people are incredibly stupid. Yes, guides and education DO help; but some people do not want the help, or the change.
Regards,
Peter- Proposed As Answer byNotaLuddite001 Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:11 PM
I think the Ribbon was and is an amazing idea and should stay the way it is without the backwards Compatibility, let me explain super quick before I get hate thrown my way.
The ribbon is an amazing idea as a stated for the reason that it helps people learn office again, It helps use find everything we don’t use and put it to work. I do a task at work and have gotten good at it thought when office 07 came out it forced me to have to find everything again, I lost a couple days of productivity to that, however in the end I gained so more efficiency by learning about commands I had no idea that was in office 2003 and behind not to even begin to speak about the new wonderful things like remove duplicates.
In fact if you have not watched the story of how the ribbon came to be you really should
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archive/2008/03/12/the-story-of-the-ribbon.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage
I know it drives you crazy at first and people hate change but the simple fact is that office 03 and back is much more overwhelming then the interface they came up with, its less confusing, more user friendly, and it helps you find what you’re looking for to a great degree than any other version of office. Stick with it, you will find it better in the end then the beginning.- Edited byTAHames Wednesday, May 13, 2009 3:15 PM
- Edited byTAHames Wednesday, May 13, 2009 3:14 PM
- Proposed As Answer byUte SimonMVPSaturday, May 23, 2009 2:50 PM
- Dont forget you can also get the Add-ins for Excel 2007, Word 2007. Powerpoint 2007.
This add-in adds a Get Started tab to the Microsoft Office Excel 2007 Ribbon. Commands on this tab give you easy access to free content on Office Online that helps you learn Excel 2007 quickly.
This add-in adds a Get Started tab to the Microsoft Office Word 2007 Ribbon. Commands on this tab give you easy access to free content on Office Online that helps you learn Word 2007 quickly.
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/downloads/CD102140991033.aspxThis add-in adds a Get Started tab to the Microsoft Office PowerPoint 2007 Ribbon. Commands on this tab give you easy access to free content on Office Online that helps you learn PowerPoint 2007 quickly.
the Discussion Group site is a really good resource
http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx Does anybody else see the irony in “arguing for icons, against English-text menus.. but doing it exclusively in English Text.. without a single icon”??
It is a little unfair, because it is difficult to graphically explain why the Ribbon bar is better than the proliferation of toolbars that can clutter Excel when you’ve got a load of addins.. It is also unfair to expect people to argue symbolically because there no universal lexicon of symbols that everybody understands and agrees on.. Besides almost everybody understands English.. and translation has been going for a while!
Toolbars needed to evolve, and Ribbons are better.. but clicking a windows logo instead of a floppy-disk logo is far less intuitive than the File/Save menu.. for a five-year-old, a 50 year-old and most between.
Where Microsoft has gone so very wrong is ignoring the future direction of language processing and the roles menu’s will have guiding man-machine interaction with software’s limited vocabulary.. so take the heat out and add back the menu
- Proposed As Answer byNotaLuddite001 Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:18 PM
- There will not be an option. Simple as that. Move on please.
- Proposed As Answer byMary Branscombe Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:02 PM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:17 AM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:35 PM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Thursday, May 14, 2009 6:51 AM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:59 AM
- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:35 AM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Friday, May 15, 2009 1:14 AM
- Unmarked As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:10 PM
- Marked As Answer byJoe DEliaMSFT, OwnerTuesday, October 27, 2009 5:34 PM
- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:06 PM
- Proposed As Answer bySimon Jones - MSDL Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:23 AM
- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:19 PM
- Keep in mind, the windows team is now the same team whoi created the ribbion, so we will see more ribbion apps (like movie maker, paint etc)
- because it increases the number of test options MS has to deal with to get the product out and delays it
because it means significant extra development effort to place new features into an old and already overcrowded - and already confusing - interface (more delays)
because it increases the complexity of support - finding out what interface people are using and if it's classic, how they have customised it
because if only the people who dislike the ribbon speaks up it gives an unbalanced view
because MS isn't going to go back from the ribbon to the old menu interface and if they have a limited amount of time for discussion and considering features, I'd rather than went on features and ideas that have a chance of happening
and to a much lesser degree, because it would be better for people to accept and learn the ribbon than to hope it will go away, but all the other reasons are much more significant.- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:06 PM
- Proposed As Answer bySimon Jones - MSDL Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:23 AM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 10:59 PM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:34 PM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:18 AM
- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Monday, May 18, 2009 7:12 PM
- Unmarked As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:10 PM
- Marked As Answer byJoe DEliaMSFT, OwnerTuesday, October 27, 2009 5:35 PM
- the problem with having that option is that it increases the amount of testing MS hs to do and that takes time away from putting other neat new features in the product; it's not the zero-impact checkbox you think it is.
- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Monday, May 18, 2009 7:13 PM
- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:09 PM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:34 PM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 10:45 PM
- Mary I can't agree with you more, Something New is going to be better then something old, there are many things I want to see out of the new office rather then rehashing the old stuff. Think forward and not just back or your going to miss a lot of good things ahead.
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:35 PM
- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:06 PM
because it increases the complexity of support - finding out what interface people are using
I fully agree with this. Already now it is difficult to help users in forums, if they don't mention their version of Office. I am working in IT training and support. Just imagine the situation that people within the same company could have two different user interfaces. It would double the effort of supporting them.
To my experience, all our users got used to the new interface within two weeks, after only a few hours of training. Nobody of our office workers does want to go back to the old Office, and nobody is complaining.
I am looking forward to the new version 2010 WITH the Ribbon!
Best regards,
Ute
www.ppt-user.de - Tipps, Tricks, Newsletter, Veranstaltungen und mehr rund um PowerPoint- Proposed As Answer byMarc Sulmon Monday, May 18, 2009 11:26 PM
- I disagree with adding this option...
Ok there are a few things that might need re-categorising or renaming.. but a simple google search can find the answers in 30seconds.
The new brilliant new interface took away all those fiddly drop down tabs and tiny icons and brought a great looking very easy to follow visual interface.. which is the way everything is heading.
visual interface is king.
- Why dont people like the Ribbon? They are frightened of change in my opinion! I persuaded someone I know to try office 2007 and he was a hardcore 2003 fan (I am being serious, he spent waaaay to much time ranting about it!), and he hated at first, but with some prodding and mild threats, he now loves it because he sat down and learned it in 15 mins. I think that the Ribbon interface is a fantastic concept, and I hope that more software companies adopt it's idea, it is so user friendly. If you want the 'old' interface, my words to you: take a hike, computing is a place of change. Live with it.
Thanks, Callum Kerr- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Saturday, October 31, 2009 1:00 AM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 10:46 PM
- Proposed As Answer byrockridge Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:12 AM
- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:32 AM
- amen. If these people ran the computer world, we still would be using ms DOS
change is part of life, and if people can not accept it then they should just crawl up in a hole Hello,
yes!!!!!
I would like an option to switch back to the "classic" menu in Office 2010. "Classic" being the menu that was included with Office 2003.
I have nothing against the new menu, but my dad hates it, and a lot of old people I know hate it.
I think this would be a good option to stop them complaining :).
Regards,
Peter
I can not agree more Peter!!
People are so stupid!, a classic option is definaetly needed. My workplace will not upgrade because of ignorants. My workplace is very big, and considering future office suite alternatives (which I think is stupid), so that's less money that's going into Microsoft.- Proposed As Answer byNaxShaleChan Monday, May 18, 2009 2:57 PM
Hello,
yes!!!!!
I would like an option to switch back to the "classic" menu in Office 2010. "Classic" being the menu that was included with Office 2003.
I have nothing against the new menu, but my dad hates it, and a lot of old people I know hate it.
I think this would be a good option to stop them complaining :).
Regards,
Peter
I can not agree more Peter!!
People are so stupid!, a classic option is definaetly needed. My workplace will not upgrade because of ignorants. My workplace is very big, and considering future office suite alternatives (which I think is stupid), so that's less money that's going into Microsoft.
you calling us stupid? or microsoft? Again, there will not ever be an option again. If you want the old, dated view, just use an older verson of office.
Did you know, everything that has been hidden in the menus is now right in front of you? You click the tab on top and you are presented with options with in that tab (insert has everything you can insert like a picture, a shape etc)
it seems to me, your the stupid one, who can't see that the ribbion is just like the old view, but everything is right in front of you, not hidden deep with in menus.- I have been using Office 2007 since the earliest public beta, and as an experienced Office trainer I can say that people's reaction to the ribbon is often different depending on how long they have used Office 2007. People who have just started using it tend to say they can't find anything while those who have used it for a while tend to know where to find what they commonly use. This is hardly surprising.
This leaves people who have seen the ribbon but not been willing to try it - and I suspect it is these people who are most vocal about missing the toolbars!
The excellent blog series that Jensen Harris at Microsoft wrote while working on the ribbon design made it clear that there was a huge investment in the ribbon, and that the decision to avoid having a 'classic menu' option was quite deliberate. There are many reasons why such an option is a bad idea, but the most fundamental is that if it was there, users who are (dare I say) lazy would simply take the option and stick with the old menus and toolbars.
The ribbon is not perfect, but it is far easier to navigate than menus and toolbars will ever be. Read the wealth of information on Jensen's blog to learn more... http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh- Proposed As Answer byUte SimonMVPSaturday, May 23, 2009 2:51 PM
Just a note. If I unpropose an answer, then either I don't think that it bares much of an argument, or people have proposed it in vanity.
Regards,
Peter StylesHello,
yes!!!!!
I would like an option to switch back to the "classic" menu in Office 2010. "Classic" being the menu that was included with Office 2003.
I have nothing against the new menu, but my dad hates it, and a lot of old people I know hate it.
I think this would be a good option to stop them complaining :).
Regards,
Peter
I can not agree more Peter!!
People are so stupid!, a classic option is definaetly needed. My workplace will not upgrade because of ignorants. My workplace is very big, and considering future office suite alternatives (which I think is stupid), so that's less money that's going into Microsoft.
you calling us stupid? or microsoft? Again, there will not ever be an option again. If you want the old, dated view, just use an older verson of office.
Did you know, everything that has been hidden in the menus is now right in front of you? You click the tab on top and you are presented with options with in that tab (insert has everything you can insert like a picture, a shape etc)
it seems to me, your the stupid one, who can't see that the ribbion is just like the old view, but everything is right in front of you, not hidden deep with in menus.
I don't quite think he was calling everyone stupid, and that's a bit of a sweeping statement to say that there will never be an option again; we don't know an answer yet.
Am I possibly the only person on this topic who looks at things from an unbiased perspective?I have been using Office 2007 since the earliest public beta, and as an experienced Office trainer I can say that people's reaction to the ribbon is often different depending on how long they have used Office 2007. People who have just started using it tend to say they can't find anything while those who have used it for a while tend to know where to find what they commonly use. This is hardly surprising.
This leaves people who have seen the ribbon but not been willing to try it - and I suspect it is these people who are most vocal about missing the toolbars!
The excellent blog series that Jensen Harris at Microsoft wrote while working on the ribbon design made it clear that there was a huge investment in the ribbon, and that the decision to avoid having a 'classic menu' option was quite deliberate. There are many reasons why such an option is a bad idea, but the most fundamental is that if it was there, users who are (dare I say) lazy would simply take the option and stick with the old menus and toolbars.
The ribbon is not perfect, but it is far easier to navigate than menus and toolbars will ever be. Read the wealth of information on Jensen's blog to learn more... http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh
Very good answer.- Well ... Have you all tried to use the Ribbon to develop Access Applications? ... not so good.
----
Ultimately ... tabs are a just menus (in the sense that it is text on the top of the screen and clicking that text is the entry point to learn what commands lurk beneath it) and the groups and buttons on the Ribbon are just choices on that "menu". Things are STILL hidden (or NOT INCLUDED AT ALL) in the Ribbon UI (ie: Drop Down buttons, Galleries, etc) and there are issues with the Ribbon in general, like why (in Word) does the style of the current paragraph NOT become visible in the style galler on the Ribbon. Sure the style will get the focus, but if that style is not visible in that little window, you have know idea what the style is in the current paragraph. There are work arounds, but thats just it, they are WORK AROUNDS, that were not needed in the 'old' technology of Toolbars.
The Ribbon has a long way to go to match the functionality and intelligence toolbars. To summarize the biggest draw back of the Ribbon: The lack of context sensitivity (ie: the home ribbon has a propensity to get the focus, when you need a contextual tab). MANY more clicks, plus having to know where you want to go decreases the productivity. With toolbar technology, the toolbar you needed was ALWAY right there when you clicked on any object, the menus follows suit... simply awesome philosophy: select an object, the software shows you what you can do with it. With ribbons, select an object ... look for the enabled buttons in ALL the tabs, and see what the easily missed contextual tabs reveal ... oh yes, don't forget to check the "Commands Not In the Ribbon" section of the Customize the QAT to see what else you could do with the selected object. :)
I have had many discussions with folks concerning the woes of the ribbon and instead of trying to summarize all to those discussions, I have pasted a select few below:
--- Clip 1 ---
After almost a year with the Ribbon and other "interface" improvements, I can honestly say that the Ribbon has provided me with no benifits over the "traditional" interface. Programmability is more difficult, even if you know XML ... manipulating the interface and reacting to users inteacting with the ribbon is just plain out more difficult and cumbersome to manage. The context sensitivity (ie: showing the appropriate ribbon and commands for the task at hand) is ... well ... VERY underdeveloped....
I think I can go on, and in the Ribbons defense, there are those that have thrived with it (ie: Freakazued). But the items I stated are real, laced with a bit of opinion. I still have yet to find someone, in my demographic spere of things, that thinks the Ribbon is an improvement over the Toolbars/Menus ... even the coveted "new users" I deal with have found it difficult ... Most SEE it and say ... "ooooo cool looking interface .... wow!!!" ... but then they try to USE it and quickly decide the sleek looks aren't everthing! .....
Also, I will say that my opinions on the Ribbon could drift towards a different opinion (speaking from an Access point of view now) if the commands were laid out better, the context sensitivity was WAY better, and the programmability was improved (ie: a VBA object model for the Ribbon)
--- Clip 2 ---
... Just a little fun .... since I know (and respect) that our opinions of the Ribbon are different!! (at this point in time at least!) ...
Your explanation ...
"find the controls group on the Form Design Tools Ribbon tab...the Select All button is the second one on the bottom from the right of that group."
With menus ...
"Edit -> Select All"
--- Clip 3 ---
The Ribbon UI in Word and Excel seem fine, I beleive those two were the "target apps" for the Ribbon and Access was forced to go along for the ride! ... In Access, to me, the implementation of it was not done nearly as cleanly ... It seems all I do is Click and Scroll (nav pain ... er um pane ... ) since, IMO, the Ribbon is not as logically laid out as it should be and the NavPan is not as navigatable as the Db window. Also, the context sensitively of the prior menu's are FAR superior to that of the Ribbon. IMO, menu's/toolbars are far more "discoverable".... I think a re-arragement of the commands on the Ribbon in Access would be a welcomed change... but would not match the capabilities of menus and toolbars ... ??? ... I am trying to adjust/adapt ... and it has worked "OK" with Word and Excel ... but Access seems to be such a different animal.
.....
One may think with all this info I have blurted out agains the Ribbon, it seems I am against it, I am not. The Ribbon just needs to improve. It is a false statement to say I don't like change ... It is true to say I don't like change when it is a regression. To me the Ribbon was introduced to early, maybe 2010 will address some of the true issues surrounding the Ribbon.
I am fairly certain a "Classic" option will not be appearing. It MS wanted that, it would have been offered in O2007, then probably dropped in 2010 ...
Regards,
Brent
Brent Spaulding | Access MVP- Proposed As Answer byNotaLuddite001 Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:34 PM
- if u care of freedom to chose i announce you all people there are many programs (UBitMenu) that gives you classic menu BACK !! Sorry but the new appearence of office 2007 is wellcomed and great !! Clasic menus just suck !! Keep it going Microsoft with more good job !!
- The ribbon is better than classic menu ! be sure about that !! is easyer to work and a pleasure too !! The ones that still use 2003 are using maybe XP too...is not about ribbon...is their hardles to use it with new things !! Never liked clasic menu being Windows or office !! It was the time to make something new am more usefull a great interface an the ribbon is a step that shows us Microsoft know we need something better !! Ribbon is also use in more aplication after office 2007 appeared !! like Autocad 2010, O&O Defrag and much other !! Is a good thing !!
- Microsoft, prevent idiots who create the classic menu for the ribbion. make it illegal if you have to. We cant steal the code for windows, neirther should these people.
Microsoft, prevent idiots who create the classic menu for the ribbion. make it illegal if you have to. We cant steal the code for windows, neirther should these people.
Right now I am strongly RESISTING flaming you out.
Now that I've got myself back under control... So, you think that everyone who likes the classic menu better is an "idiot". (Note the quotation, direct quotation from your words.) You think it should be "illegal" to recreate classic menus. Well, I got some news for you buddy, people have been using classic menus for a decade now, and still do. People will continue to use classic menus for a long, LONG time into the foreseeable future because they WORK!
I've been using Office 07 for several months now, and I still prefer the classic menus. The reason is quite simple, they are much more power-user-friendly. For most tasks that I want or need to do in Office, I know one or two keyboard shortcuts to get them done. Sure, the ribbon offers keyboard shortcuts, but they are often different from what they were in previous Office versions.
In addition to this, the ribbon is MUCH slower than the classic menu with more animations that cause a great deal of menu-loading lag. Since I don't believe in forcing people to use a certain method, I propose this:
For the Ribbon: Sure, keep your damn ribbon, but change the arrangement and organizations so that they MATCH the classic menu. Keyboard shortcuts should stay the same as in classic menus also. This maximizes usability. Nobody wants to use a keyboard "shortcut" that's 10 keys long. Usually three is the maximum length, 4 even is a stretch.
For the Classic menu: BRING IT BACK! I don't care if Microsoft buries it in the settings box and sets it to disable by default, I'll find it and enable it, but BRING IT BACK!- again, it will not come back. get over it.
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:35 PM
- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:08 PM
Microsoft, prevent idiots who create the classic menu for the ribbion. make it illegal if you have to. We cant steal the code for windows, neirther should these people.
Right now I am strongly RESISTING flaming you out.
Now that I've got myself back under control... So, you think that everyone who likes the classic menu better is an "idiot". (Note the quotation, direct quotation from your words.) You think it should be "illegal" to recreate classic menus. Well, I got some news for you buddy, people have been using classic menus for a decade now, and still do. People will continue to use classic menus for a long, LONG time into the foreseeable future because they WORK!
I've been using Office 07 for several months now, and I still prefer the classic menus. The reason is quite simple, they are much more power-user-friendly. For most tasks that I want or need to do in Office, I know one or two keyboard shortcuts to get them done. Sure, the ribbon offers keyboard shortcuts, but they are often different from what they were in previous Office versions.
In addition to this, the ribbon is MUCH slower than the classic menu with more animations that cause a great deal of menu-loading lag. Since I don't believe in forcing people to use a certain method, I propose this:
For the Ribbon: Sure, keep your damn ribbon, but change the arrangement and organizations so that they MATCH the classic menu. Keyboard shortcuts should stay the same as in classic menus also. This maximizes usability. Nobody wants to use a keyboard "shortcut" that's 10 keys long. Usually three is the maximum length, 4 even is a stretch.
For the Classic menu: BRING IT BACK! I don't care if Microsoft buries it in the settings box and sets it to disable by default, I'll find it and enable it, but BRING IT BACK!
+1 These are the exact reasons why some people hate the ribbon.again, it will not come back. get over it.
Nobody knows if it is going to come back or not. You are going to look like an absolute red faced idiot if Microsoft does decide to bring it back.
I can safely say that I'm not going to make any statements like the one I have quoted.
----
One more thing in general to everyone, if I unmark a proposed answer, can you please not mark it again? If I unmarked an answer, then there was probably something wrong with the logic of the answer. (ie: someone saying that people want the ribbon to go away)
Regards,
Peter Styles- Edited bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:02 PM
- Edited bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 10:58 PM
- it wont come back, why has microsoft put so much time in the new ribbon? If it were to come back, don't ya think it would have back in 2007?
and get over the fact that people are changing your votes. it wont come back, why has microsoft put so much time in the new ribbon? If it were to come back, don't ya think it would have back in 2007?
and get over the fact that people are changing your votes.
Most of the answers you propose are rubbish.
When you propose one of your own answers out of vanity such as "again, it will not come back. get over it. " it adds no reasonable argument to any side of the fence.
In relation to Office 2007, companies can make mistakes. Think vista.
Regards,
Peter Styles- Edited bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:38 PM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:41 AM
- Proposed As Answer byXCheese360 Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:40 AM
- Edited bydagrimdialer619 Monday, May 18, 2009 11:39 PM
In relation to Office 2007, companies can make mistakes. Think vista.
I think that is a terrible thing to say. There was pretty much nothing wrong with Vista, things needed to change and be updated and Microsoft rightfully pushed that. People say that the system requirements were too high, at the time Vista was released, 512 MB RAM was not much to ask. Neither was 128MB of VRAM for Aero. Windows 7 will be a better release, mainly because it was built on top of it's predesessor; Vista (NT 6.0) up to Seven (NT 6.1). This is the same with Windows XP. From Windows 2000 (NT 5.0) to XP (NT 5.1) this is why Windows XP was 'so compatible'. And if I remember, Windows XP had an even worse start than Windows 98 (Which is quite an achievment!)Seven is going to change the way that operating systems will be designed in the future, Microsoft rightfully told shareholders to take a hike and let them get on with it. Rant over!'Classic Menu'? Is it not in the name? 'Classic car', 'Classic Ship' THEY ARE ALL OLD! We need to move forward and develop more ergonomically designed interfaces that are more productive, easier to navigate and learn. Anyone who thinks 'Classic' interfaces need to return, I think they deserve to be shot and given a free copy of Windows 95 and Office 95 (Yes, that does exist!), that will have you begging to be put to Office 2007. Wake up! Change is coming and you can't stop it! Want to stay with the old, rubbish 2003, then do that, let the other 80% of the market get on with loving the Ribbon and stop having people polluting the internet with plees for an old UI. Again, rant over!
Thanks, Callum Kerr- Proposed As Answer byTarget362 Thursday, May 21, 2009 2:17 AM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:20 AM
- Could not agree more. This vista bashing is pointless and stupid.
- The replies I have unmarked as an answer, and why.
to keep things balanced I'll say I *don't* want that ;-)
Fine, I recognize your point, but this doesn't provide an argument.There is an interactive command reference guide which is great for showing you where all the Office 2003 commands are within the Office 2007 interface....
That's great, don't care.Hi No way dont return to the old menus the ribbon and the tabs are so easy
What I am proposing isn't forcibly making people use the old menus.There will not be an option. Simple as that. Move on please.
That's a statement, not a relevant answer with interesting thoughts.because it increases the number of test options MS has to deal with to get the product out...
I've already explained this one.. damn you people/person are persistent!I think that is a terrible thing to say. There was pretty much nothing wrong with Vista
The person who posted this admitted that it was a rant. Yes, I can see where you're coming from, to be completely honest I don't actually care less about the ribbon and the classic interface; I'm fighting for the people who want freedom of supported choice. Vista was a fail, it came out very incomplete; and this wasn't all of Microsoft's fault; some of it was due to third party companies such as NVidia. So far Windows 7 is looking good in the way of actually working.
Regards,
Peter Styles- Proposed As Answer byNotaLuddite001 Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:49 PM
- ...and now for some of the good answers that are still proposed, and why they're good answers:
I want that option too. I love the ribbon, but I know many people who think it's too difficult to use the ribbon.
It's true, real people, in real situations.. some of them not even in the IT industry find it hard to navigate the ribbon. One person I know has tried to learn it for years, a very smart, extremely high up man in a nameless Australian government workplace. I find it funny when he says things like "This stupid piece of garbage!!.. why don't any of the old keyboard shortcuts I use work?".. or "Why isn't this under this?"Our school is still using Office 2003 because a few teachers don't want to use Office 2007 because of the ribbon.
Self explanatory. It's happening in a lot of schools, and from the ones I've heard of, it's not because of the licensing fees.then perhaps they could offer a video tour of the new ribbon? Show an actual person using the program, and not hidden behind a mic.
Yeah.. there may be a few tours like this out there though, I'm not sure.I fully agree with this. Already now it is difficult to help users in forums, if they don't mention their version of Office. I am working in IT training and support. Just imagine the situation that people within the same company could have two different user interfaces.
Good point; but I guess if it happens you might probably have the option of digging, and disabling one of the interfaces so this isn't a problem.
Regards,
Peter Styles - Greetings,
to me, it's very annoying hear over and over again the "classic" thingy for everything. People who love the Office 2003 UI, should stay with it. Honestly, I can't understand that attachment to the old/classic thing. If you are 65 years old, you may have a good excuse. Otherwise, you don't.
I always compare this with buying a new car. Why don't you say to your car dealer that you don't like the dashboard in the new model of your 15 years old car? Try to lodge a request about it, and let them know you want back your old dashboard in the new model. Let's see what you get.
I think it's quite easy: if you like Office 2003/XP UI model, stick with it. If you like Windows Vista and 7/Office 2007 and Office 2010, go ahead. Learn the new way of interacting with the UI, take advantage of new features, etc...
I know a lot of people who loves the new UI. Ribbon included and don't like at all the old menu system.
In my opinion, we have to move forward, even if sometimes is a real pain. But move forward. Software needs to evolve. Always.
Regards.
W7 RC x64 running.... Greetings,
Thankyou, another fine argument that is well thought out.
to me, it's very annoying hear over and over again the "classic" thingy for everything. People who love the Office 2003 UI, should stay with it. Honestly, I can't understand that attachment to the old/classic thing. If you are 65 years old, you may have a good excuse. Otherwise, you don't.
I always compare this with buying a new car. Why don't you say to your car dealer that you don't like the dashboard in the new model of your 15 years old car? Try to lodge a request about it, and let them know you want back your old dashboard in the new model. Let's see what you get.
I think it's quite easy: if you like Office 2003/XP UI model, stick with it. If you like Windows Vista and 7/Office 2007 and Office 2010, go ahead. Learn the new way of interacting with the UI, take advantage of new features, etc...
I know a lot of people who loves the new UI. Ribbon included and don't like at all the old menu system.
In my opinion, we have to move forward, even if sometimes is a real pain. But move forward. Software needs to evolve. Always.
Regards.
W7 RC x64 running....- Edited bydagrimdialer619 Thursday, May 21, 2009 7:02 AM
- I love new ribbon from user and most from the developer view.
- Can I ask why we are even trying to propose answers anyway? There is a reason why we are here: WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS! Unless you are an insider who knows, don't bother, it is just spamming my inbox!
Thanks, Callum Kerr - Just a note: There is new images on the Office 2010 Wiki showing off some of the other programs including an Office Sync Centre.Take a look!
Thanks, Callum Kerr Can I ask why we are even trying to propose answers anyway? There is a reason why we are here: WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS! Unless you are an insider who knows, don't bother, it is just spamming my inbox!
Thanks, Callum Kerr
That's what I was thinking when the first answer was proposed, I'm keeping the good ones though; btw: nice images!.. I'm looking forward to Office 2010.- Yeah, it looks great! I'll probably be camping outside my local Curry's store for the weekend with food, loaded shotgun and a credit card. Food for eating, shotgun for anyone who tries to skip the line of people waiting and the card for purchasing the software. I am pretty sure it will be less than '07. Credit crunch anyone!?
Thanks, Callum Kerr Yeah, it looks great! I'll probably be camping outside my local Curry's store for the weekend with food, loaded shotgun and a credit card.
Don't forget to take the grenades for pointless unnecessary damage when you get bored of the line! You can blow things up and cause havock while you wait. :)- I hope it wont be all white. I HATE that microsoft is moving towards this light, washed out fell with no option to go to dark. Not everyone loves the washed out fell, and microsoft NEEDS to understand that. But they don't and thats where they fail. Thats why when Windows 7 is out I'll be making sure to skin my windows darker and find some tweak to make my command bars DARK and not white and pale looking.
same with office. Can I ask why we are even trying to propose answers anyway? There is a reason why we are here: WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS! Unless you are an insider who knows, don't bother, it is just spamming my inbox!
Thanks, Callum Kerr
Greetings Callum,
to avoid any spam from these forums, just remove the "alert" for this thread. Easy.
And the answer about the Office 2010 UI is quite clear in view of the decision made for Windows 7.- Have you seen any movement for the Classic Start Menu?
- Have you seen anything in regards with the "Quick Launch" toolbar request?
- Have you seen anything about going back to the old taskbar?
Best regards.
W7 RC x64 running....
In my oppinion you're wrong. I think the changes in Windows 7 and Office 2007 are two completely different things. It's not much of a jump to have a new Start menu, not have the quick launch and not have the old taskbar; however it is a major jump for people who are upgrading from an earlier version of Office to Office 2007. From what I've heard (not what I know) some of the old shortcuts that people used to use won't even work. That's not a reasonable evolving change, that's a failure in the genetic sequence. If the Office team isn't going to include an option for the old menus in Office, I think they at least have to make it easier to navigate; and they also have to bring back some of the old shortcuts.
And the answer about the Office 2010 UI is quite clear in view of the decision made for Windows 7.- Have you seen any movement for the Classic Start Menu?
- Have you seen anything in regards with the "Quick Launch" toolbar request?
- Have you seen anything about going back to the old taskbar?
Best regards.
W7 RC x64 running....
Regards,
Peter Styles
edit: ok.. I've been playing around with Windows 7 alot now, you were wrong about a few things.
Tweaking around with some of the options, I was easily able to get back something that resembles a quick launch menu; I put my computer on Windows classic view, and I was pretty much able to make my startbar look like it would in XP.- Edited bydagrimdialer619 Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:05 AMEdited on 3/6/09
- Greetings Peter,
you probably saw the images about Office 2010. Do you really think they are going back to the old menu system?
Office 2010 is planned to work along with Windows 7. Integration is the term. In my opinion, as with earlier versions of Windows/Office (XP/2003 - Vista/2007), they are looking for a W7/Office 2010 close coupling.
My thoughts about the UI is that they will keep an homogeneous development in the long time. You can't go forward in one version and back in the next one. That will get people really upset.
And about shortcuts, we really don't know if they finally will make such changes. I've read a small review here, and nothing it's said about that.
Regards.
W7 RC x64 running.... - I am not wanting the old UI back, it's silly and pointless. I am all for the Ribbon!
Thanks, Callum Kerr Want software utilities? Check out my website for more info! - http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/05/20/microsoft-office-2010-technical-previewLook at the bottom of the page :-) The screenshots are a bonus!
Thanks, Callum Kerr. - - - Want software utilities? Check out my website for more info! - +1
stupid move on Microsoft. dont go back to dated looks and fells. Greetings Peter,
you probably saw the images about Office 2010. Do you really think they are going back to the old menu system?
Office 2010 is planned to work along with Windows 7. Integration is the term. In my opinion, as with earlier versions of Windows/Office (XP/2003 - Vista/2007), they are looking for a W7/Office 2010 close coupling.
My thoughts about the UI is that they will keep an homogeneous development in the long time. You can't go forward in one version and back in the next one. That will get people really upset.
And about shortcuts, we really don't know if they finally will make such changes. I've read a small review here , and nothing it's said about that.
Regards.
W7 RC x64 running....
Fair enough, that's a good point.
+1 stupid move on Microsoft. dont go back to dated looks and fells.
It's not about looks, it's about maximizing productivity for the people who can't use the ribbon, and maximizing business for Microsoft. There are people and businesses everywhere holding back an upgrade because of the ribbon, and their lack of knowledge about third party solutions. That's a fact you can't escape from, no matter how much some of you people don't want the classic menu back (even as an option). Maybe one of the alternative possible ways to solve this would be through the third parties advertising their Office classic menu?
Regards,
Peter Styles
Have you tried your old keyboard shortcuts in Office 2007? When you start one of the old menu shortcuts (i.e. alt-E), you get a little message that reads "Office 2003 Access Key ALT,E. Continue typing the Office 2003 menu key sequence, or press Escape to cancel". They didn't get rid of the menus for those of us who use the keyboard, they just made it easier for the poeple who use the mouse. That's why all of the key sequences on the ribbon are different- they didn't want to interfere with the old shortcuts.Microsoft, prevent idiots who create the classic menu for the ribbion. make it illegal if you have to. We cant steal the code for windows, neirther should these people.
Right now I am strongly RESISTING flaming you out.
Now that I've got myself back under control... So, you think that everyone who likes the classic menu better is an "idiot". (Note the quotation, direct quotation from your words.) You think it should be "illegal" to recreate classic menus. Well, I got some news for you buddy, people have been using classic menus for a decade now, and still do. People will continue to use classic menus for a long, LONG time into the foreseeable future because they WORK!
I've been using Office 07 for several months now, and I still prefer the classic menus. The reason is quite simple, they are much more power-user-friendly. For most tasks that I want or need to do in Office, I know one or two keyboard shortcuts to get them done. Sure, the ribbon offers keyboard shortcuts, but they are often different from what they were in previous Office versions.
In addition to this, the ribbon is MUCH slower than the classic menu with more animations that cause a great deal of menu-loading lag. Since I don't believe in forcing people to use a certain method, I propose this:
For the Ribbon: Sure, keep your damn ribbon, but change the arrangement and organizations so that they MATCH the classic menu. Keyboard shortcuts should stay the same as in classic menus also. This maximizes usability. Nobody wants to use a keyboard "shortcut" that's 10 keys long. Usually three is the maximum length, 4 even is a stretch.
I will refer back to my previous post. Whoever said that IT departments will have trouble with different interfaces, try this on. Most people who do spend the time to add the classic menu back on through a *hypothetical* settings menu option will probably be proficient enough to figure their problem out themselves. I know I would.Microsoft, prevent idiots who create the classic menu for the ribbion. make it illegal if you have to. We cant steal the code for windows, neirther should these people.
Right now I am strongly RESISTING flaming you out.
Now that I've got myself back under control... So, you think that everyone who likes the classic menu better is an "idiot". (Note the quotation, direct quotation from your words.) You think it should be "illegal" to recreate classic menus. Well, I got some news for you buddy, people have been using classic menus for a decade now, and still do. People will continue to use classic menus for a long, LONG time into the foreseeable future because they WORK!
I've been using Office 07 for several months now, and I still prefer the classic menus. The reason is quite simple, they are much more power-user-friendly. For most tasks that I want or need to do in Office, I know one or two keyboard shortcuts to get them done. Sure, the ribbon offers keyboard shortcuts, but they are often different from what they were in previous Office versions.
In addition to this, the ribbon is MUCH slower than the classic menu with more animations that cause a great deal of menu-loading lag. Since I don't believe in forcing people to use a certain method, I propose this:
For the Ribbon: Sure, keep your damn ribbon, but change the arrangement and organizations so that they MATCH the classic menu. Keyboard shortcuts should stay the same as in classic menus also. This maximizes usability. Nobody wants to use a keyboard "shortcut" that's 10 keys long. Usually three is the maximum length, 4 even is a stretch.
For the Classic menu: BRING IT BACK! I don't care if Microsoft buries it in the settings box and sets it to disable by default, I'll find it and enable it, but BRING IT BACK!
As for what someone said about the keyboard shortcuts showing up, sure that's great. I'm not sure about everybody, but I didn't memorize every single keyboard shortcut I need, only most of them. If Microsoft decides to put a full NO on classic menus, at least make that popup show the different shortcut options as we type. Or, reassign the shortcuts to the same thing and organize the Ribbon the same way as the Classic menus were organized. After a year, I still find the Ribbon to be organized completely against logic on multiple occasions.
And there still leaves the problem that the Ribbon is MUCH MUCH heavier on graphics than the classic menus. When I try to load the page numbers menu, it often takes several seconds and multiple re-openings of the menu to actually get the numbers to appear. On the other hand, with classic menus, it's a simple text-only menu that loads nearly instantly. The Ribbon is simply too slow.
@ChrisGonzales: By the way, you stuck up *censored*, don't call people idiots just because they prefer a different interface. If you'll notice, a large percentage of programs still use menus. You know why? BECAUSE THEY WORK THE WAY PEOPLE LIKE AND WANT THEM TO YOU *censored*!
So, to sum it up, here is what I suggest in order of preference. (A is best option... C is least favorite) A) Bring back Classic menus in SETTINGS (for those who want full Classic) B) Rearrange Ribbon to match Classic menu organization (as standard) C) Change popup that alerts Office 03 shortcuts to show the options under each shortcut- Edited byNaxShaleChan Saturday, May 30, 2009 4:00 AM
Whoever said that IT departments will have trouble with different interfaces, try this on. Most people who do spend the time to add the classic menu back on through a *hypothetical* settings menu option will probably be proficient enough to figure their problem out themselves. I know I would.
Before people flame you without thinking about things, I should point out that Microsoft could include an option for IT departments to disable the classic menu or ribbon completely through a registry setting or something.
Regards,
Peter Styles- True that. It would make life much easier for IT departments while at the same time keeping the Classic menu.
Dual boot of Vista Premium 32-bit and 7 RC1 32-bit True that. It would make life much easier for IT departments while at the same time keeping the Classic menu.
Dual boot of Vista Premium 32-bit and 7 RC1 32-bit
yep :)Hi No way dont return to the old menus the ribbon and the tabs are so easy to use its probably they have not had it explainded to them do you know there is now 1500 commands in word 2007 compared to 250 in 2003 version this is the only way they could display them - thank goodness they got rid of the old tool bars cant wait for 2010 - there was about 8 million user trials and real eye tme observations when i used it at first i thought i had died and gone to heaven then about 2 weeks later i thought i would need to get another job as i could not get on with it then it suddenly just clicked....
And how easy is it to use tables now!!!
Blue
Be assured, there were as many commands Word 2003 as in Word 2007. In Word 2003, it was a cinch to create your own custom Toolbars with the commands that THE USER needed and it was equally as easy to produce different custom toolbars to assign to different templates to match different tasks. Word 2007 pushed a mass of useless commands IN YER FACE with no way for a normal user to change or remove them.
It was a terrible attempt to redesign the interface displaying masses of useless commands whilst eliminating out-of-the-box customisation. The QAT was an inadequate stop gap which required the most convoluted process just to change a button face.
Regards: Terry
tfHi No way dont return to the old menus the ribbon and the tabs are so easy to use its probably they have not had it explainded to them do you know there is now 1500 commands in word 2007 compared to 250 in 2003 version this is the only way they could display them - thank goodness they got rid of the old tool bars cant wait for 2010 - there was about 8 million user trials and real eye tme observations when i used it at first i thought i had died and gone to heaven then about 2 weeks later i thought i would need to get another job as i could not get on with it then it suddenly just clicked....
And how easy is it to use tables now!!!
Blue
Be assured, there were as many commands Word 2003 as in Word 2007. In Word 2003, it was a cinch to create your own custom Toolbars with the commands that THE USER needed and it was equally as easy to produce different custom toolbars to assign to different templates to match different tasks. Word 2007 pushed a mass of useless commands IN YER FACE with no way for a normal user to change or remove them.
It was a terrible attempt to redesign the interface displaying masses of useless commands whilst eliminating out-of-the-box customisation. The QAT was an inadequate stop gap which required the most convoluted process just to change a button face.
Regards: Terry
tf
That isn't exactly true. The only options forced to you are the ones everyone uses - Formatting, pasting, styling. The other options aren't there unless you select that tab and if you dont like the space it consumes, you can hide the ribbon completly until you need it, so to say you lose all of this customization and it's all in your face, it's not accurate at all.
Not to mention the Quick Access Toolbar actually makes it way easier to add your favorite commands to a central area (And when you hide the ribbon, those QAT items remain visible).
As far as the number of commands, the number may not of varied much but the difference between 2003 and 2007 is that Microsoft conducted a huge research study to see what commands were used the most and put them in places that mattered instead of some ancient order.
RattleSoft- That makes sense. "Because it works for me, it should work the same for everyone, no exceptions."Have you considered a government job?
- How is it ignorant to want to be able to do what you have done, successfully and quickly, for over a decade?I am not against new, but for or to what purpose? How do you make a radical change to the interface and, instead of meeting the installed base half way, you tell them tough, get use to it. Poorly done.
- "because if only the people who dislike the ribbon speaks up it gives an unbalanced view"And you were expecting...
- I have used the Ribbon for 2 years. I would switch back today.I read Harris's blog. What he never answered was why the classic could not be as-is pulled over. None of the new features, you want new features; accept the Ribbon.It isn't lazy to be frustrated that a decade of experience is thrown out because, well, they really have not answered "because".
OMG! Everything you are saying flies in the face of every review of Vista and the reality that Vista on 512MB was slower than Christmas to a 5 year old. No one recommended it without 2Gigs of ram and a video card that supported Direct (9 or 10, I can't remember), the memory issue on the video card was secondary, was required for Aero, which most people turn off.There was pretty much nothing wrong with Vista, things needed to change and be updated and Microsoft rightfully pushed that. People say that the system requirements were too high, at the time Vista was released, 512 MB RAM was not much to ask. Neither was 128MB of VRAM for Aero.
XP, by the way, came out great because Windows ME (you though we had all forgot about that ____ OS) came out so poorly.
- This no longer works: Alt-E Enter. It will undo in every previous version (and it is how I did it for years).
OMG! Everything you are saying flies in the face of every review of Vista and the reality that Vista on 512MB was slower than Christmas to a 5 year old. No one recommended it without 2Gigs of ram and a video card that supported Direct (9 or 10, I can't remember), the memory issue on the video card was secondary, was required for Aero, which most people turn off.There was pretty much nothing wrong with Vista, things needed to change and be updated and Microsoft rightfully pushed that. People say that the system requirements were too high, at the time Vista was released, 512 MB RAM was not much to ask. Neither was 128MB of VRAM for Aero.
XP, by the way, came out great because Windows ME (you though we had all forgot about that ____ OS) came out so poorly.
haha.. totally off topic, but Vista really was as terrible as ME when it came out. Loads of bluescreens. Not to mention how slow it ran, even on my old computer with 2gbs of RAM. Heck.. if the first Windows 7 beta came out as Windows Vista, it would have been far more useable.
It isn't lazy to be frustrated that a decade of experience is thrown out because, well, they really have not answered "because".
I remember someone telling me this a while ago, and explaining to me how frustrated they were.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx- Hey Peter,
As a System Integrator, this is a common complaint.
Have you considered looking in the ORK (Office Resource Kit).
We have been able to hide the fluent Ribbon UI using XLM and Programming code...provided by MS.
Something to consider As far as the number of commands, the number may not of varied much but the difference between 2003 and 2007 is that Microsoft conducted a huge research study to see what commands were used the most and put them in places that mattered instead of some ancient order.
I think this right here is the crux of the problem. The Ribbon might be great for commands that are used most. As a power user, I don't just use the commands that are used most; I pretty much use them all -- regularly. Every minute I spend hunting for some command that is not only where it used to be, but not in any place that makes much sense either, is pure frustration. There have been plenty of those minutes in the last year and a half -- and they aren't subsiding nearly as fast they should be.And this notion that there is a "right" place and a "wrong" place to put a command only goes so far. Sure, like items should be placed together. Other than that, the ancient order is EXACTLY where they should be. As an example, how about we change the order of the keys on your keyboard to something "better"?Or are you already using a Dvorak?Look, I LIKE the Ribbon. I've seen plenty of less experienced users work with it and it does the job. It just doesn't work for me and I'm glad to hear MS has learned its lesson for 2010.In relation to Office 2007, companies can make mistakes. Think vista.
I think that is a terrible thing to say. There was pretty much nothing wrong with Vista, things needed to change and be updated and Microsoft rightfully pushed that. People say that the system requirements were too high, at the time Vista was released, 512 MB RAM was not much to ask. Neither was 128MB of VRAM for Aero. Windows 7 will be a better release, mainly because it was built on top of it's predesessor; Vista (NT 6.0) up to Seven (NT 6.1). This is the same with Windows XP. From Windows 2000 (NT 5.0) to XP (NT 5.1) this is why Windows XP was 'so compatible'. And if I remember, Windows XP had an even worse start than Windows 98 (Which is quite an achievment!)Seven is going to change the way that operating systems will be designed in the future, Microsoft rightfully told shareholders to take a hike and let them get on with it. Rant over!'Classic Menu'? Is it not in the name? 'Classic car', 'Classic Ship' THEY ARE ALL OLD! We need to move forward and develop more ergonomically designed interfaces that are more productive, easier to navigate and learn. Anyone who thinks 'Classic' interfaces need to return, I think they deserve to be shot and given a free copy of Windows 95 and Office 95 (Yes, that does exist!), that will have you begging to be put to Office 2007. Wake up! Change is coming and you can't stop it! Want to stay with the old, rubbish 2003, then do that, let the other 80% of the market get on with loving the Ribbon and stop having people polluting the internet with plees for an old UI. Again, rant over!
Thanks, Callum Kerr
I cannot believe it. Face the TRUTH! "There was pretty muc nothing wrong with vista"??!!!!---Man, there IS somethong wrong with vista. 512M Ram was not too much to ask, but VISTA requires at least 1.5G to run it smoothly (even 1G is not working well).
This is a crappy talk insisting how good vista is.Greetings,
to me, it's very annoying hear over and over again the "classic" thingy for everything. People who love the Office 2003 UI, should stay with it. Honestly, I can't understand that attachment to the old/classic thing. If you are 65 years old, you may have a good excuse. Otherwise, you don't.
I always compare this with buying a new car. Why don't you say to your car dealer that you don't like the dashboard in the new model of your 15 years old car? Try to lodge a request about it, and let them know you want back your old dashboard in the new model. Let's see what you get.
I think it's quite easy: if you like Office 2003/XP UI model, stick with it. If you like Windows Vista and 7/Office 2007 and Office 2010, go ahead. Learn the new way of interacting with the UI, take advantage of new features, etc...
I know a lot of people who loves the new UI. Ribbon included and don't like at all the old menu system.
In my opinion, we have to move forward, even if sometimes is a real pain. But move forward. Software needs to evolve. Always.
Regards.
W7 RC x64 running....
You are so RIGHT. "People who love the Office 2003 UI, should stay with it" ---- that's what happened in most universities. No professors are using Office 2007 for presentation/slides/etc. And all personal users hate Office 2007.
Yeah, good, so only 65-years old people like the "classic menu"? lol. I bet most people here are 20-45 years old. Younger people? they went to iPhone...
The ONLY reason for ribbon is because some MSFT VP could be promoted for this "great feature".I cannot believe it. Face the TRUTH! "There was pretty muc nothing wrong with vista"??!!!!---Man, there IS somethong wrong with vista. 512M Ram was not too much to ask, but VISTA requires at least 1.5G to run it smoothly (even 1G is not working well). This is a crappy talk insisting how good vista is.
You're wrong :-) Vista's minimum requirments from Microsoft is 512MB of RAM. Now, you failed to notice (fool that you are) that that 512 MB refers to a computer running Windows Vista with minimum settings, otherwise known as not running *Aero*. Yes, *Aero* does need more RAM but this is a choice by the user therefore builds up on top of the minimum requirements.You are just another typical idiot who seems to jump on the bandwagon of the people who listen to over inflated reviews and comments by people who truly know nothing about what they are saying. And here is another thing, (two actually):1. This form is for talking mainly about the Office 2010 UI.2. Before posting something, think: have I got my facts right?--"The ONLY reason for ribbon is because some MSFT VP could be promoted for this "great feature"."Now, this is total -blam!-. This really is a pathetic attempt to create an argument, well I have something for you: give me a really good reason why not to make the new UI? Then I'll keep quiet.Me Out.
Thanks, Callum Kerr. - - - Want software utilities? Check out my website for more info!- OpenOffice is a good alternative :). All kidding aside, be a bit more OpenMinded the ribbon is there for many reasons, pleople way smarter than a lot of us spent a lot of time doing research that lead to the inovations you see in Office. You will find yourself being more productive.
Regards! OpenOffice is a good alternative :). All kidding aside, be a bit more OpenMinded the ribbon is there for many reasons, pleople way smarter than a lot of us spent a lot of time doing research that lead to the inovations you see in Office. You will find yourself being more productive.
nah. I do get your point though, some people are more productive with the ribbon, however there are still people who are more productive without the ribbon.
Regards!
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx- I uninstalled 2007 and went back to 2003.
So if there is this option, I may change my mind - What is Windows 7
- I am an IT Manager. I (just me) have been using Office 2007 since release for testing but I decided not to replace Office 2003 in our corporation.
The reason is simple:
The users have been using Office for 10+ years - they know how to use it and use it well. They know it like the back of thier hands. I even sent all the users to training on it a couple years before 2007's release. To put it simply, they know how to use their tools.
2007 changed way to much and our business wasn't ready for that much change. Small change is good - complete overhaul change is bad. MS should have had an option in 2007 to have a classic view option - just like XP had an option for classic view.
I am afraid though that having an option in 2010 is a bit late. Having a Classic view a product 2 releases back is just not a good idea for multiple reasons. Oh well, I guess we (our business) will just have to take the fall and take a couple steps backwards to move forward when that day comes. - Since I installed Office 2007 at home, I don't like working at the office. I have been using all versions of Word 2 (DOS) and up, but the ribbon is a relief.
No way Microsoft can add features to the classic menu system. "The users have been using Office for 10+ years " is not reason to stop innovation. These users want new cars with news features, they want cellphones with new features. Try to convince them the Ribbon is a cool feature that makes life easy. Since I installed Office 2007 at home, I don't like working at the office. I have been using all versions of Word 2 (DOS) and up, but the ribbon is a relief.
It's not stopping innovation to include an option. Whether the ribbon is "cool" or not does not matter when you are running a business.
No way Microsoft can add features to the classic menu system. "The users have been using Office for 10+ years " is not reason to stop innovation. These users want new cars with news features, they want cellphones with new features. Try to convince them the Ribbon is a cool feature that makes life easy.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx- Having taught Office programs since XP, the ribbon is a god send for new users, and people more au fait with more modern operating systems, once the initial 'shock' from the old office environment is over (3 weeks in my experience with 1000 users) then people grow to use more of the system than they have before. Personal opinion it is horrid, and I do not like it, but less support calls and more use of the features means the newbies find it easier.
- Proposed As Answer bythis was the only name that was not taken Friday, June 26, 2009 12:43 PM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Friday, June 26, 2009 12:49 PM
Having taught Office programs since XP, the ribbon is a god send for new users, and people more au fait with more modern operating systems, once the initial 'shock' from the old office environment is over (3 weeks in my experience with 1000 users) then people grow to use more of the system than they have before. Personal opinion it is horrid, and I do not like it, but less support calls and more use of the features means the newbies find it easier.
Good point, but I don't really think it's an answer. I'm hearing many different things. Yes, it works for some workplaces and some people; but for some others it doesn't.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx- The UI is not the same as the dashboard in a car, it everything you can put your hands on in the car to make it work. If GM radically altered the drivers interface and told purchasers, "in two weeks, you will be used to it," GM would have been out of business overnight. Do not pass go, do not collect 50 billion dollars. A Xbox controller for the car might be cool, but when faced with a real-life wreck, I am going to want to hold on to something more substantial.I am not a big fan of the Office 03 taskpane, but the File, Edit, View, etc. menu options have been around since, I think, the 80s. Sometimes longevity means something good.I am happy you know people who like the ribbon, I doubt they are the majority.Forward is great, but to where?
The UI is not the same as the dashboard in a car, it everything you can put your hands on in the car to make it work. If GM radically altered the drivers interface and told purchasers, "in two weeks, you will be used to it," GM would have been out of business overnight. Do not pass go, do not collect 50 billion dollars. A Xbox controller for the car might be cool, but when faced with a real-life wreck, I am going to want to hold on to something more substantial.
haha.. reminds me of a car I saw on the TV show "Top Gear" once :P.I am not a big fan of the Office 03 taskpane, but the File, Edit, View, etc. menu options have been around since, I think, the 80s. Sometimes longevity means something good.I am happy you know people who like the ribbon, I doubt they are the majority.Forward is great, but to where?
I've forgotten the model, but Jeremy was like.. wtf is this?.. who would buy this piece of ____?
From the many, many people I know; the majority of them hate the ribbon. That's just a small sample size compared to the millions of Microsoft customers though.
However, there are a few serious unnamed corporations I can think of that are holding back an upgrade. That's a bit of a bigger sample.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx- Edited bydagrimdialer619 Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:25 AMadding more.
"to me, it's very annoying hear over and over again the "classic" thingy for everything."
To change toolbars totally without giving the option to return is just arrogance.
I also find it strange that people love MS to decide how the UI should operate rather than having the freedom to choose for themselves. Why prefer MS enforcement of your behaviour and work over choice and customisation?
I know how I want to work better than MS knows. I want to create my own menus and way of working.
Surely choice is better than enforcement from outside.To those who say the Ribbon is better, I had my menus arranged so that everything was one click away. With the Ribbon many things are many clicks away. Have you ever tried formatting in a table using the Ribbon? Clickarama! With the old system, everything could be made to be one click away.
Oh, and you could put the menus at the bottom or side of the screen too. And you could make all the menus and title bars disappear. Etc. Now everything is set in concrete. That's not improvement.
- Digging around the internet.
We're not the only ones talking about this. People are having arguments everywhere. At the end of the day, if Microsoft makes it an option, it should keep both camps happy.
Read these:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22373550-Re-Info-Microsoft-Office-2010-Technical-Preview-Registration
http://databases.about.com/b/2009/04/15/microsoft-access-2010-whats-coming-with-office-2010.htm
http://blogs.technet.com/office2010/archive/2009/05/11/office-2010-hello-world.aspx
http://www.nirmaltv.com/2009/04/28/microsoft-office-2010-screenshots/
http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12558-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=64622&messageID=1203583
http://www.metropol247.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5617
http://www.betanews.com/article/A-wish-list-for-Office-2010/1245950197
---
No offense, but if Microsoft hasn't even at least considered putting a classic menu in Office 2010, they need to be slapped with a big smelly fish.
As a quote from the last link:
"Remember Office 2003? Remember its interface? I know you spent months leading up to the Office 2007 release saying the old menu-and-icon paradigm had outlived its usefulness, that it needlessly buried some features so deeply in menu structures that most users never found them. You gave us something called "Ribbons" and said this new approach would revolutionize how we worked.Well, if "revolutionize" means "kill my productivity for months on end," then I suppose you're right. Even now, over 18 months after switching over, I still find myself pining for the old, comfortable interface. I've customized it as best I can, but it's still too radical a shift. And given the fact that no other Windows applications outside the Office universe support this silly Ribbon thing, I think it's time you admit defeat and move on."
I couldn't have summed it up better myself.
Before Office 2007 was released, and shortly after, I had nothing but praise for the ribbon.... and then I started to realise how stupid the change was, and how inconvenient it was to use. All I ask is for an option to use the classic menu, so that people like Martin Gifford and NotaLuddite001 and major companies can finally upgrade, and be productive with the Office suite.
For anybody that doesn't like this idea, don't use the classic menu.
Someone is bound to argue with this post, so I'll define the word "Option" to make my argument precisely clear.
The Oxford English Dictionary defines the word "Option" as:
Will anybody be forcing you to use the old menu?- noun 1 a thing that is or may be chosen. 2 the freedom or right to choose.
No.
Ultimately I believe that it would be a very smart move for Microsoft to include the classic menu in Office 2010.
Regards,
Peter Styles
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx Digging around the internet.
It makes those two camps happy and makes a lot of other camps not happy. It's not like adding the old interface back in has no costs...
We're not the only ones talking about this. People are having arguments everywhere. At the end of the day, if Microsoft makes it an option, it should keep both camps happy.-Ben-
OfficeForLawyers.comDigging around the internet.
It makes those two camps happy and makes a lot of other camps not happy. It's not like adding the old interface back in has no costs...
We're not the only ones talking about this. People are having arguments everywhere. At the end of the day, if Microsoft makes it an option, it should keep both camps happy.-Ben-
OfficeForLawyers.com
and what would those costs be?
I hate the classic menu, but I'm all for choice. I can't force my views onto people who want to use the older menus.
Every update to every application has to be tested with both interfaces. Developers have to write code that takes into account totally separate interfaces. Every time the product team adds or changes something they have to make sure it doesn't break anything in the other interface. For authors, like me, it means probably at least 15-20% more work to account for how to do things in both interfaces. For support personnel it means more work having to determine which interface a user is using and answering the new set of questions regarding how to change (or unchange) the interface. For trainers it means having to teach both interfaces, or at least be prepared to explain why they aren't teaching the other interface. It means a larger, more bloated, program. Larger, more bloated, updates. Longer time to market, more time and resources to develop and test, more time and resources to document, etc. etc. Adding a second UI to a program the size and import of Microsoft Office is not a trivial matter.Digging around the internet.
It makes those two camps happy and makes a lot of other camps not happy. It's not like adding the old interface back in has no costs...
We're not the only ones talking about this. People are having arguments everywhere. At the end of the day, if Microsoft makes it an option, it should keep both camps happy.-Ben-
OfficeForLawyers.com
and what would those costs be?
I hate the classic menu, but I'm all for choice. I can't force my views onto people who want to use the older menus.-Ben-
OfficeForLawyers.com
mmhhhmmm... I've heard this all before. Microsoft isn't a small company.. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be that much of a problem to do most of what you're talking about. They could probably rehash most of the code to get this working.
Every update to every application has to be tested with both interfaces. Developers have to write code that takes into account totally separate interfaces. Every time the product team adds or changes something they have to make sure it doesn't break anything in the other interface. For authors, like me, it means probably at least 15-20% more work to account for how to do things in both interfaces. For support personnel it means more work having to determine which interface a user is using and answering the new set of questions regarding how to change (or unchange) the interface. For trainers it means having to teach both interfaces, or at least be prepared to explain why they aren't teaching the other interface. It means a larger, more bloated, program. Larger, more bloated, updates. Longer time to market, more time and resources to develop and test, more time and resources to document, etc. etc. Adding a second UI to a program the size and import of Microsoft Office is not a trivial matter.Digging around the internet.
It makes those two camps happy and makes a lot of other camps not happy. It's not like adding the old interface back in has no costs...
We're not the only ones talking about this. People are having arguments everywhere. At the end of the day, if Microsoft makes it an option, it should keep both camps happy.-Ben-
OfficeForLawyers.com
and what would those costs be?
I hate the classic menu, but I'm all for choice. I can't force my views onto people who want to use the older menus.-Ben-
OfficeForLawyers.com
If there is a toggle for the switching of menus, it could be multicoloured. It really wouldn't be hard for support personel to determine what interface a person is using "oh, the button to the right of your screen is green, you must be using the ribbon interface", and as for a new set of questions regarding how to change the interface?? ha! What.. "Click the button"? I mean honestly..
Trainers?? So what. People can find one or more of those.
Why would this version of Office take a longer time to market than any other version of Office?
OK, I'll admit, Authors like you will have work to do; however it's a product that everybody would be happy to use, regardless of whether they like the old menu or not.
---
I love debate.. but I'm away from the computer for a week. I'm pretty sure this post sums up "everyone's" "worries".
Regards,
Peter Styles
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspxmmhhhmmm... I've heard this all before. Microsoft isn't a small company.. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be that much of a problem to do most of what you're talking about.
Well, I guess there's not really much point to discussing it then. :-) You're sure that it's not much of a problem because "Microsoft isn't a small company." General Motors wasn't a small company either. Big company or no that doesn't mean they have infinite resources; especially in this economy.As for taking longer to get to market, anytime you add features, requiring more testing, more development and more documentation you add time to getting to market. That's true whether your product is software, automobiles or pizza. Add features, add steps, add requirements and you add time. It's axiomatic in project management that more resources doesn't necessarily speed things up. Just because one woman can have a baby in nine months doesn't mean that nine women can have a baby in one month.
All I'm saying is that adding a second, entirely different, UI, is not free. There are significant costs that have to be weighed against the benefits.
-Ben-
OfficeForLawyers.com- No one should believe that adding the old menu is free, but we are willing to wait and pay for it.You make it sound like adding the old UI would be like working from whole cloth. The second entirely different UI, already exists on the cutting room floor. I guarantee that adding the classic option would: cost less money and time to develop than the Ribbon. And it would increase the number of copies sold. The economics are there, only the management is too blind to see it.I am not a fan of the 2003 UI (the taskpane needed to be drug out into the woods and shot), but it was close enough to make sense and it was fully customizable. Ben, you know lawyers, as a group, they clung to Word Perfect like no other. Why? To have complete control over the document (reveal codes) and to maintain the customizations. This UI change is no different, accept there is no viable alternative.I think GM is the right comparison. The largest carmaker in the world spent the last decade only making money in the loans and in premium, large, vehicles. When the price of gas triples and credit gets tight, GM gets bit on both ends. Since MS makes verily little hardware, they have a higher threshhold for economic pain than GM, but bad decisions hurt the bottom line, no matter if you make software or widgets. Office is a cash cow for Microsoft, why do they keep screwing it into the ground?I think the largest supporters of the Ribbon, outside of corporate, are trainers (who make money from the change) and new users (mostly college age or younger). The bulk of our population are nearer or already retired. That needs to be considered.Matt
No one should believe that adding the old menu is free, but we are willing to wait and pay for it.
It may be that re-adding the old menu would cost less to develop than the Ribbon but doesn't mean it automatically makes economic sense.You make it sound like adding the old UI would be like working from whole cloth. The second entirely different UI, already exists on the cutting room floor. I guarantee that adding the classic option would: cost less money and time to develop than the Ribbon. And it would increase the number of copies sold. The economics are there, only the management is too blind to see it.First of all you can't just copy/paste the old UI onto Office 2010. The features don't map exactly. There would still need to be development resources devoted to restoring it, then testing and documentation resources devoted to moving ahead with it.
Second, there isn't any way to know for sure how many additional sales (if any) restoring the old interface would generate. Fans of the old interface like to claim that re-adding the old interface is some sort of economic no-brainer, but there aren't any hard numbers to base that claim upon.
I'm not opposed to making the old UI an option. But there are a lot of other features I'd rather see them devote the resources to first.
-Ben-
OfficeForLawyers.comI wouldn't recommend adding the new features to the old menu (or else there is no reason for the ribbon). That should simplify the change over a bit, but I agree that it wouldn't be a simple copy and paste. We don't know what it would cost. MS has never hinted at considering it.
We do not have any economic data on this, but MS probably does. I have to guess that the amount of nashing of teeth over this means something. The main 2 reasons that I have heard why companies have not upgraded to Office 2007 was cost and UI. If you take UI interface issue away it should mean greater market penetration. We could quibble that many companies who skip one generation as part of their software strategy would have bought the new version anyway, but the decision no longer requires retraining and lost productivity. I am an office user from the mid 90s, I have used Office 2007 for two years, and I still have trouble finding things, that is not productive. If the new version is better (and 2007 was faster and securer than its predecessors), then there is a reason for those who have held on to older versions to upgrade if their previous investments in customizations and training are not thrown away.
By the way, what other features do you want in Office?
Matt- Mr. Kerr
I have been a computer consultant for 19 years. My first beta was Word 6. I have over 300 clients who use MS Office and many of them have used 7 generations of Word for Windows: Word FW 2.0, Word FW 6.0, Word 95, Word 97, Word 2000, Word XP, Word 2003. The print button was in the exact same place in all of those versions. So with that kind of competence MS decides to hide the print button inside the Office Button, now that's progress.
My business is down 50% this year because my clients are desperately holding onto their older outdated machines because they don't want Vista and they especially don't want Office 2007. I have queried many of my clients and the statement "I hate Vista" in fact usually means "I hate the new Office".
The ribbon bar was a mistake. I liken it to moving the furniture in a blind persons bedroom. So why not offer a "classic interface" to the 80% who would opt for it and leave the ribbon for the newbies who don't have to unlearn 7 generations of rote knowlege?
I have zero expectation that MS will listen but one can only hope because Windows 7, as good as it is, will not create a mass upgrade unless people know they can have their toolbars back.
Hope you can see an alternate viewpoint. Mr. Kerr
I have been a computer consultant for 19 years. My first beta was Word 6. I have over 300 clients who use MS Office and many of them have used 7 generations of Word for Windows: Word FW 2.0, Word FW 6.0, Word 95, Word 97, Word 2000, Word XP, Word 2003. The print button was in the exact same place in all of those versions. So with that kind of competence MS decides to hide the print button inside the Office Button, now that's progress.
My business is down 50% this year because my clients are desperately holding onto their older outdated machines because they don't want Vista and they especially don't want Office 2007. I have queried many of my clients and the statement "I hate Vista" in fact usually means "I hate the new Office".
The ribbon bar was a mistake. I liken it to moving the furniture in a blind persons bedroom. So why not offer a "classic interface" to the 80% who would opt for it and leave the ribbon for the newbies who don't have to unlearn 7 generations of rote knowlege?
I have zero expectation that MS will listen but one can only hope because Windows 7, as good as it is, will not create a mass upgrade unless people know they can have their toolbars back.
Hope you can see an alternate viewpoint.
You can customize the ribbon now though,Mr. Kerr
I have been a computer consultant for 19 years. My first beta was Word 6. I have over 300 clients who use MS Office and many of them have used 7 generations of Word for Windows: Word FW 2.0, Word FW 6.0, Word 95, Word 97, Word 2000, Word XP, Word 2003. The print button was in the exact same place in all of those versions. So with that kind of competence MS decides to hide the print button inside the Office Button, now that's progress.
My business is down 50% this year because my clients are desperately holding onto their older outdated machines because they don't want Vista and they especially don't want Office 2007. I have queried many of my clients and the statement "I hate Vista" in fact usually means "I hate the new Office".
The ribbon bar was a mistake. I liken it to moving the furniture in a blind persons bedroom. So why not offer a "classic interface" to the 80% who would opt for it and leave the ribbon for the newbies who don't have to unlearn 7 generations of rote knowlege?
I have zero expectation that MS will listen but one can only hope because Windows 7, as good as it is, will not create a mass upgrade unless people know they can have their toolbars back.
Hope you can see an alternate viewpoint.
I'm sorry to hear about your business performance, hopefully we will all make it through. I can see where you are coming from, but it comes around again that there was need for change, I was not around when WIMP environments came into play, but I am sure that people thought, "it's not as fast or efficient" or "It uses more RAM without offering any more worthwile functionality" against command line environments. But then: "It's easier for people to start off using", "It is more user friendly and natural". I know this is a bias comment but I really like the Ribbon, I think it's great. It is the reason why my current project's user interface is going to be similar, but not exact (for obvious reasons). I sat down with some of my potential clients and showed them some user interface options, one being the ribbon, another a 'classic' drop down menu, and another simple toolbar. The Ribbon style one got the most attention, not because the people had seen it before or used it, but because it was so easy to navigate and memorise.Notice memorise. In 2003, when you had the menu's, sometimes when you wanted to do something complicated, you would need to go through maybe up to 6 or 7 levels. In 2007, the maximum is 3 with the Ribbon. Select, Tab - Tool - Sub tool. It's faster and more efficient, to use learn and also teach, Microsoft would never have done something like this without testing it long before béta. Nobody really knows what it going on in Redmond, but I am sure it is all for the better. You'll see :-)Good luck! By the way, take a look at my website ;-)
Thanks, Callum Kerr. - - - Want software utilities? Check out my website for more info!- Target362,
If by customize you mean make it look like the classic menu, not true, and, accordingly, you have missed the point rockridge made. His point is that some change is not good, particularly when it does not probably value what was.
Everything was in the same place for over 15 years. Microsoft gave it value, but it can't take it away. - I dont even remember what office 2003 even looks like.
- Is anybody here on the technical preview who wants a classic menu option? If you are, you have to tell someone or it will never have a chance to happen.
Is anybody here on the technical preview who wants a classic menu option? If you are, you have to tell someone or it will never have a chance to happen.
yeah.. but I still hold a bit of faith that Microsoft isn't that stupid.
This is just a technical preview, not a beta. :)
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx- In my company we didn't install Office 2007 because we do not want to retrain everyone. As said above it is ridiculous to impose this Office 2007 Ribon. Not only should we loose all of our habits, but most of the new screen are 16/9 and this ribon takes a lot of place in the height of the screen. We should at list be able to choose to restore previous classic menu. We are considering migrating to OpenOffice otherwise.
In my company we didn't install Office 2007 because we do not want to retrain everyone. As said above it is ridiculous to impose this Office 2007 Ribon. Not only should we loose all of our habits, but most of the new screen are 16/9 and this ribon takes a lot of place in the height of the screen. We should at list be able to choose to restore previous classic menu. We are considering migrating to OpenOffice otherwise.
I've heard alot of that too. I wasn't really going to talk about OpenOffice, because I didn't know how many companies were considering that.. but yeah, considering as you've talked about your company, I can safely say that I've also heard of a few companies that are considering that option. I'm not sure how many though.
Regards,
Peter Styles
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx- Hi,
I would like to comment on the Ribbon interface as believe Microsoft has settled on the common denominator of most used fucntions. This will be fine for the majority of users who do not have unusual requirements or are completely new to the interface.
To this set of users I believe 2007 and the Ribbon UI was a step forward. For others users with specific requirements, the ribbon interface is not easier than 2003 and in fact some cases more difficult or a longer path than 2003.
For example try the font Substitution in both apps - Word 2007 is actually one more step. Convert Text to table is no easier, the peculiar splitting of insert page break between the insert menu (insert page break) and layout (insert page break plus all the other options).
Try selecting sections for protection, it's actually quicker in Word 2003. In 2003 I could create unique customized toolbars which I could switch on and off according to whether I working with fields, tables, etc and all I end up with is QAT with 4 identical icons which all mean different things.
I accept that the 2003 menu bar layout is "easier" because I've been using it for so long, I also accept that the ribbon UI is now here and there is no going back (nor should there be) but Microsoft please note for some users the usability is not any greater than 2003 for specialized functions and in some case worse.
PS: I don't think you can call this laziness....
Kind Regards
Brad - From a developer's perspective I find the Ribbon interface to be unproductive. My issue isn't with the interface itself but more with the organization of the features. The classic menu may not be pretty but it's certainly much easier to find what I want (probably because I had been using it for 15 years).
Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic) - I also find the Ribbon hard to work with from a developer's point of view, but this is because it is harder to actually develop an add-in than in Office 2003. In Word 2003, for example, you could just create a new toolbar and work with that, but in Word 2007, it takes me about three times longer to do the same stuff.
- Hi Paul/Jacob,
This confirms some of my suspicions, in that Power users are actually penalised in 2007. I create very precise templates in Word and PowerPoint everyday and it has made my life more difficult. Some of the new functionality is great and especially the advances in PowerPoint 2007 are way overdue. The mechanics of the build however are more painful - it's fine if you want a funky smart art drop in graphics as proscribed by MS but it's a totally different ball game if everything has to be custom built to client specs. It obviously a pain we will have to get used to - I can't say clients will be pleased at the additional costs however.
Kind Regards
Brad - My 2cents,
I think there shouldn't an option for reverting back to the "classic", because generally people are resistance to change. If classic interface is available, most (note: i said most) people will simply stay with the classic. (to some extend, it is similar to the debate of whether Windows keep the backward compatiabilty or overhaul to move on)
I agree with most user, my initial experience wan't that great either, and it does take sometimes to get used to. However, the Ribbon did show me some function that I didn't know it exist before.
One of my complain is why isn't the interactive video listed by mball001 (Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:18 AM) is part of Help? This should have been part of Help, and not as a separate download (user could always customize during installation!)
As other have stated I agree some of the grouping seem illogical, but then, I'm sure MS has done some statistical/psychological studies?
I also agree with pbrad, the development of Ribbon seems to involve a lot then the good old menu (I have read the VBA, but never tried to develop one).
Another point that I have read recently,
VBA and VSTA - The Future?
Changes to the forum (a little long, sorry)
The future of VBA looks a lot like VSTA. Or does it?
what is going to happen to VBA? I believe MS has stopped any development of VB. So would MS eventually stopped the development of VBA too? I think it might end up a loss for MS if they do, becuase I think there are a lot of DIY programmer (I'm one of them) who used VBA (mainly Excel, as I'm an engineer) for their daily productivity. It seems to me, MS is trying to force people to use managed code? Based on my googling (while I was searching for a VBA solution), I have yet to here any positive feedback (the most common is being slow and very hard to deploy). Why can't we still have unmanaged COM? I recently was looking at way to create COM object, and realised I will need either Visual Basic 6 or pre-office 2003 Developer edition to create unmanaged COM object. WTH? I'm a newbie in terms of COM object, but based on what I had read, I don't see any advantage on managed COM (except maybe less coding).
2c
PS Anyone with good links to articles regarding COM managed vs unmanged , if you could kindly please post it here. - To everyone who believes there should not be a classic option:
Why? Let's go over what people have said (paraphrasing):
1. People are resistant to change, therefore, change should be forced upon them.
2. The Ribbon is better, smart, fantastic, and amazing, therfore, no classic option.
3. Because it is harder on MS to support multiple UIs (ignoring the fact that all of the older versions use different UIs).
4. People who want the classic menu are annoying, old luddites.
None address the fundamental problem that the ribbon is insufficient for power users and is a change=fail for people with a decade of experience. I have used the ribbon for 2 years. i hate it. i am not a macro builder, nor do I customize the menu. I just know knew where stuff was and that the menu was where it was supposed to be, regardless of context. To everyone who believes there should not be a classic option:
Why? Let's go over what people have said (paraphrasing):
1. People are resistant to change, therefore, change should be forced upon them.
2. The Ribbon is better, smart, fantastic, and amazing, therfore, no classic option.
3. Because it is harder on MS to support multiple UIs (ignoring the fact that all of the older versions use different UIs).
4. People who want the classic menu are annoying, old luddites.
None address the fundamental problem that the ribbon is insufficient for power users and is a change=fail for people with a decade of experience. I have used the ribbon for 2 years. i hate it. i am not a macro builder, nor do I customize the menu. I just know knew where stuff was and that the menu was where it was supposed to be, regardless of context.
I think that point 4 is a little overboard ;-) Only point 3 makes logical sense.
Thanks, Callum Kerr. - - - Want software utilities? Check out my website for more info!- Given that the Ribbon will not revert to trational menus, the classic menu and customizible toolbars are not available. I accept this, it's not a problem. The majority of users have and will find all of the standard functionality through the ribbon for all the features they wish to use. All I would ask is the little extra shortcuts many of have developed to make life more productive over the years be accesible in some form - ie: a customizable developer section of the ribbon for power users, to let us carry on tweaking for our own benefits. It doesn't have to be supported by Microsoft - just the availibilty would be a help.
If not then perhaps it's a case of improving the ribbon so that no option is more than 3 steps from it's start point.
PS can we rotate type in 1 degree steps yet and is it not possible to have a simple X Y postion and width height dialogue like illustrator, indesign or quark in one single place, it would be so simple instead of the halfway house we have now. Also F1 and select the option off the drop down toolbar seemed a lot more logical than having to dig out the great four fingered MS death grip of CTRL + SHIFT + ALT + S.
Kind Regards
Brad - Callum, all 4 are directly from this thread. Those of us who want the old menu as an option have been called old, annoying, unwilling to change, and afraid of innovation.
By the way, I agree that 3 holds the most merit. 1,2, and 4 represent the weaker defenses against adding the classic option. The problem with the argument is because of the installed base. They already must deal with multiple UIs in support. They could at least lessen the number of UIs to support if they added the classic option, because many of us who are staying with Office 2003 and older, would have less reasons not to update. Then when the inevitable call for support comes in, the tech could switch the user to the new interface and prove it value.
I am not for throwing the ribbon under the bus (although it isn't for me), but the classic menu should be an option. I am not for throwing the ribbon under the bus (although it isn't for me), but the classic menu should be an option.
+1
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx- I've been using Word since version 2, probably around 1990? Thats nearly 20 years of using a Word processor that had 'File', 'Edit', 'View' etc. I tried Office 2007 twice, and each time I reverted back to 2003 because of familiarity with the menu structure.
I don't have the benefit of someone to provide training in Office 2007. I know that it took too long to perform simple tasks in Word 2007 that were instinctive in 2003, and that even after a couple of weeks I was still having trouble performing what I considered basic tasks. Perhaps it takes much longer to undo nearly 20 years of familiarity.
Word 2007 doesn't have any advances over 2003 that I felt would make my struggle worthwhile, which is why I returned to 2003. There are a couple of features in Outlook 2007 I like, but as that wasn't compatible with Word 2003 as an email editor that went too. If Office 2010 doesn't have a familiar menu structure it will need some truly amazing features to persuade me to use it.
If Microsoft want happy customers and increased revenue it might be a good idea to give customers the option to use the 'old' menu structure.
As for upgrades to user interfaces, I was surprised to discover that the 'add new font' feature in Windows Vista has almost exactly the same look as it did in Windows 3.1. I've been using Word since version 2, probably around 1990? Thats nearly 20 years of using a Word processor that had 'File', 'Edit', 'View' etc. I tried Office 2007 twice, and each time I reverted back to 2003 because of familiarity with the menu structure.
I don't have the benefit of someone to provide training in Office 2007. I know that it took too long to perform simple tasks in Word 2007 that were instinctive in 2003, and that even after a couple of weeks I was still having trouble performing what I considered basic tasks. Perhaps it takes much longer to undo nearly 20 years of familiarity.
Word 2007 doesn't have any advances over 2003 that I felt would make my struggle worthwhile, which is why I returned to 2003. There are a couple of features in Outlook 2007 I like, but as that wasn't compatible with Word 2003 as an email editor that went too. If Office 2010 doesn't have a familiar menu structure it will need some truly amazing features to persuade me to use it.
If Microsoft want happy customers and increased revenue it might be a good idea to give customers the option to use the 'old' menu structure.
As for upgrades to user interfaces, I was surprised to discover that the 'add new font' feature in Windows Vista has almost exactly the same look as it did in Windows 3.1.
You do know that Microsoft's Office division is among its most profitable and that there has been a very strong Office 2007 adoption rate? People seem to want to insist the reverse is true but just look up the numbers. Some like the ribbon, others hate it, but (regardless) it is undoubtedly not going away. Much like the abandonment of the "Classic menu" in Windows 7, I wouldn't expect any backward movement on a classic menu option in Office 2010. Given the implementation of Backstage in the TP, I would say it is even less likely. Personally, I work with alot of tech challenged people in my profession, most of whom hate the ribbon, but they all now use Office 2007 and successfully adapted to it in a couple weeks. From my perspective, I don't want to see a classic menu option simply because people call me with their computer issues, and it will waste time fumbling through different interfaces. More importantly, it takes up enough real estate (and memory) already - I certainly don't want the coding to be anymore bloated or complicated than is necessary. If you need the "classic menu" wait a couple months after release and there will certainly be a third-party add in available. BTW, I have been using Word just as long and I find the ribbon to be a major UI enhancement....
StephenFrom my perspective, I don't want to see a classic menu option simply because people call me with their computer issues, and it will waste time fumbling through different interfaces.
if Microsoft implements a button toggle, all you'd have to do is tell them to press the button, then go on and teach them how to do something. Extra time wasted, maybe 5-10 seconds.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx- I hope Microsoft doesn't remove VBA. I've used VBA since Word 97, and it'll be hard for me to learn another programming language just to develop and update my add-ins, not to mention a waste of time if most people stay with versions of Office that use VBA macros.
- Edited byJacobRH Monday, August 10, 2009 10:38 PMAdding stuff...
- I don't work with templates and graphics all that much. I only develop add-ins. However, I do find creating custom templates a bit easier in Word 2007 with the Styles gallery (although they could make it easier to actually create a new style).
1) The old keyboard shortcuts are shorter. What's the point of long shortcuts?I've been using Office 07 for several months now, and I still prefer the classic menus. The reason is quite simple, they are much more power-user-friendly. For most tasks that I want or need to do in Office, I know one or two keyboard shortcuts to get them done. Sure, the ribbon offers keyboard shortcuts, but they are often different from what they were in previous Office versions.
Have you tried your old keyboard shortcuts in Office 2007? When you start one of the old menu shortcuts (i.e. alt-E), you get a little message that reads "Office 2003 Access Key ALT,E. Continue typing the Office 2003 menu key sequence, or press Escape to cancel". They didn't get rid of the menus for those of us who use the keyboard, they just made it easier for the poeple who use the mouse. That's why all of the key sequences on the ribbon are different- they didn't want to interfere with the old shortcuts.
2) In Office 2003, after each shortcut key you typed it would display the choices for the next key. That make it easy to learn the shortcuts. Now it only tells you to continue typing, without showing you any choices. Extremely frustrating. At the very least, it should show you the old choices. Even better would be to show (at the end) the new recommended shortcut for that function. (Though this might lead to some embarrassment because the new sequence is usually longer.)
3) Have you tried "alt-V u" in Word 2007? Works fine, switching to a single page full-screen view. However, there doesn't seem to be a new command for that view. The on-line interactive tool at http://office.microsoft.com/assistance/asstvid.aspx?assetid=XT100766331033&vwidth=1044&vheight=788&type=flash&CTT=11&Origin=HA100744321033 suggests View|Document Views|Full Screen Reading - but that shows two pages. Is there an official way to get the single-page full-sreen view? Or might that view go away the with the next "upgrade"?It looks like Office 2010 will be partly customisable.
Now Microsoft just needs to show how to create a ribbon tab that is similar to Office 2003.
here's a link: http://news.office-watch.com/t/n.aspx?articleid=968&zoneid=12
- *sigh*. Microsoft needs to learn from its customer base. ^ bump.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx - Remember the twso rules in customer/supplier relationships:
Rule 1: The customer is ALWAYS right.
Rule 2: If the customer is wrong, rule 1 applies.
I have accepted the ribbon but it took me time to find where the functions was. My sulotion was to add keyboard shortcuts to the commands I use frequently Like Alt+B = Insert Pictiure, Alt+N = Style Normal etc.
I am for the users right to choose either ribbon or classic menus or both. I think any program should try to satisfy as many users as possible. Another point is: if you know how to something and it works well, why invent a new way to do it?
The Difference between change and improvement: An improvement is always a change. A change isn't always an improvement.
When something works or looks different there has been a change. It is up to the individual user if the new way works better.
One mans improvement may not be another mans.
When it comes to Windows Start menu I am a "Classic" guy all the way. I think the Windows GUI hasn't improved since Windows 2000, it has only changed. I will sorely miss the classic option in Windows 7, maybe to the point that I won't upgrade windows. My brother won't leave Windows XP for similar reasons. Remember the twso rules in customer/supplier relationships:
This is nothing that I haven't said previously in this thread but...
Rule 1: The customer is ALWAYS right.
Rule 2: If the customer is wrong, rule 1 applies.
I have accepted the ribbon but it took me time to find where the functions was. My sulotion was to add keyboard shortcuts to the commands I use frequently Like Alt+B = Insert Pictiure, Alt+N = Style Normal etc.
I am for the users right to choose either ribbon or classic menus or both. I think any program should try to satisfy as many users as possible. Another point is: if you know how to something and it works well, why invent a new way to do it?
The Difference between change and improvement: An improvement is always a change. A change isn't always an improvement.
When something works or looks different there has been a change. It is up to the individual user if the new way works better.
One mans improvement may not be another mans.
When it comes to Windows Start menu I am a "Classic" guy all the way. I think the Windows GUI hasn't improved since Windows 2000, it has only changed. I will sorely miss the classic option in Windows 7, maybe to the point that I won't upgrade windows. My brother won't leave Windows XP for similar reasons.
Indeed! I agree with all of that.
The minute Office includes the option, I can see a boom in sales.
It astounds me how many people and businesses won't upgrade because of the ribbon.
On a personal level, about 90% of the things I do with Office are easier without the ribbon, and about 10% are easier with the ribbon. If any of us had an option to toggle between the two it would be a godsend for productivity.
Regards,
Peter
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx*sigh*. Microsoft needs to learn from its customer base. ^ bump.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx
They did - that is why they developed the ribbon and other enhancements....
StephenRemember the twso rules in customer/supplier relationships:
This is nothing that I haven't said previously in this thread but...
Rule 1: The customer is ALWAYS right.
Rule 2: If the customer is wrong, rule 1 applies.
I have accepted the ribbon but it took me time to find where the functions was. My sulotion was to add keyboard shortcuts to the commands I use frequently Like Alt+B = Insert Pictiure, Alt+N = Style Normal etc.
I am for the users right to choose either ribbon or classic menus or both. I think any program should try to satisfy as many users as possible. Another point is: if you know how to something and it works well, why invent a new way to do it?
The Difference between change and improvement: An improvement is always a change. A change isn't always an improvement.
When something works or looks different there has been a change. It is up to the individual user if the new way works better.
One mans improvement may not be another mans.
When it comes to Windows Start menu I am a "Classic" guy all the way. I think the Windows GUI hasn't improved since Windows 2000, it has only changed. I will sorely miss the classic option in Windows 7, maybe to the point that I won't upgrade windows. My brother won't leave Windows XP for similar reasons.
Indeed! I agree with all of that.
The minute Office includes the option, I can see a boom in sales.
It astounds me how many people and businesses won't upgrade because of the ribbon.
On a personal level, about 90% of the things I do with Office are easier without the ribbon, and about 10% are easier with the ribbon. If any of us had an option to toggle between the two it would be a godsend for productivity.
Regards,
Peter
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx
First, the concept of the customer is always right was (appropriately) modified in the tech industries a long time ago. Actually, it has seldom (if ever) really applied in any business in which the customer does not have the technical knowledge to be correct. With exceptions of things like the automotive repair industry, it has worked pretty well for half a century so spouting ancient cliches that don't even apply is pretty silly.
Second, a boom in sales over what? The Office program has long been their strongest money maker and Office 2007 has had a faster adoption rate than any of its recent predecessors. Please do check the real numbers. If you want a menu, buy yourself an add on - don't make a large and complicated piece of software even more bloated with unneccesary code. BTW, it is my undertsanding that (in as much as there is competition) the comptetition are attempting to devleop the ribbon concept as well....
Stephen- The arguments here keep going back and forth between those who like the ribbon - and those who like menu bars. The 'ribbon' crowd keeps saying 'get used to it', while the menu bar crowd says 'give us back our menu bar'.
Personally, I would like to see a return of the menu bar. But I am at heart a command-prompt user and probably spend twice as much time using the old DOS command prompt than I do using Windows Explorer. Why? Because it's just plain faster. I can type 60+ words per minute, and the stupid mouse thing is a pain to point. Clicking jiggles the mouse and moves the pointer - and there's no confirmation for drag-and-drop. A co-worker once accidentally moved an entire 2-gigabyte network folder into a neighboring folder because the mouse moved when he clicked on the folder name in Explorer.
Basically, I am a text-based person. I think in words. I use words to process information. I interact with computers using words. I turn off toolbars in any application that lets me. I dislike icons because I have to hover over them with the mouse EVERY TIME to see the words that tell me what the frigging icon is supposed to actually do. The only usable toolbars I've ever seen are the ones where every icon has a label under it telling you what it does. I loathe the ribbon not because it's new, but because it's VISUAL. To me, the ribbon bars appear to be nothing more than very cluttered toolbars. I can never find the command I'm looking for because the UI is too cluttered.
I realize that there are other people out there who process information visually, and who love splashy graphics and loads of icon-laden toolbars. These are the people who like the ribbon control. I'm not one of them, and never will be.
And for those of you who say that the ribbon is the future so we all have to get used to it, here's something to think about: When (some day) we get household computers that are voice-controlled... they will all be COMMAND PROMPT BASED. They will have to be, because voice-commands will be processed as text, and there will be only one microphone that controls the entire computer. This is pretty much the same as controlling a computer that doesn't have a mouse attached. You won't need a keyboard, but a voice-controlled computer will (necessarily) have the same UI characteristics as a keyboard-only computer. Remember the twso rules in customer/supplier relationships:
Well, not always: http://notalwaysright.com/
Rule 1: The customer is ALWAYS right.
Rule 2: If the customer is wrong, rule 1 applies.
Go and read.
If it was helpful, please vote! ¡Si te ayudó, por favor vota!
W7 RTM x64 running along with Office 2010 x64 TP- As much as I love the ribbon myself, I agree with the people who want the classic menu back as an option.
I'm a programmer myself, and all I can say is that It's really, really stupid to add a major change to the functionality and UI of a product without providing some sort of backwards compatibility to keep your customer base.
Been there, done that.
Wake up microsoft. - Gahhh! This thread has gotten so long that it pops up no matter what I search on. And frankly, I'm sick of seeing it, and sick of the never-ending back and forth. I've read several interviews with people involed with Office 2010 over the last year, and in those interviews, the same fact has been repeated clearly, again and again:
There. Will. Be. NO. Option. To. Revert. To. The. Old. Menu. Bar. In. Office. 2010. Period. End. Of. Story.
As far as Microsoft is concerned, the Ribbon is an evolution of the GUI that is part and parcel of the Office DNA as of 2010. The choice not to include a switch back to the old-style menu bar was apparently considered long and hard, and has been solid enough to have been baked into design plans all the way back to 2007. No, I didn't take the time to dig up the references. And neither should you. That's time you could be spending coming to grips with the inevitable truth that if you want to update to Office 2010, you are simply going to HAVE to update your knowledge and learn to use the Ribbon.
Many people will be disappointed. Some will be angry. There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth. But I pray to whatever deity will listen that the whining is done AWAY from the fora, because it's very annoying and it won't change anything, no matter what. Gahhh! This thread has gotten so long that it pops up no matter what I search on. And frankly, I'm sick of seeing it, and sick of the never-ending back and forth. I've read several interviews with people involed with Office 2010 over the last year, and in those interviews, the same fact has been repeated clearly, again and again:
There. Will. Be. NO. Option. To. Revert. To. The. Old. Menu. Bar. In. Office. 2010. Period. End. Of. Story.
As far as Microsoft is concerned, the Ribbon is an evolution of the GUI that is part and parcel of the Office DNA as of 2010. The choice not to include a switch back to the old-style menu bar was apparently considered long and hard, and has been solid enough to have been baked into design plans all the way back to 2007. No, I didn't take the time to dig up the references. And neither should you. That's time you could be spending coming to grips with the inevitable truth that if you want to update to Office 2010, you are simply going to HAVE to update your knowledge and learn to use the Ribbon.
Many people will be disappointed. Some will be angry. There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth. But I pray to whatever deity will listen that the whining is done AWAY from the fora, because it's very annoying and it won't change anything, no matter what.
Well.. You didn't have to click on this thread.
I think it is perfectly reasonable to say that Microsoft is going to lose customers. Angry customers are infectious.
It was wrong not to transition in the ribbon in Office 2007. They could have completely abolished it in this version; but instead of doing that, Microsoft are left with some fairly angry customers. Microsoft caused the problem, they should fix it.
My 2 cents.- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:38 AM
- Proposed As Answer byr2d4 Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:37 AM
It was wrong not to transition in the ribbon in Office 2007.
Glad someone shares my thoughts. How many times did the bigwigs have to smack their head into a brick wall to abolish the thing entirely in 2007?
Regards,
Peter
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx- This late in the game, you are right, there will be no classic menu option, but MS should expect a large number of users to stick to previous versions of Office, and MS should expect to spend more time supporting previous versions than was necessary if they just added a classic option. It was a business decision. It was a short-sided decision. The user base and MS will pay for Microsoft's failure to recognize 30 years of user habits as a skill instead as a flaw.
Gahhh! This thread has gotten so long that it pops up no matter what I search on. And frankly, I'm sick of seeing it, and sick of the never-ending back and forth. I've read several interviews with people involed with Office 2010 over the last year, and in those interviews, the same fact has been repeated clearly, again and again:
There. Will. Be. NO. Option. To. Revert. To. The. Old. Menu. Bar. In. Office. 2010. Period. End. Of. Story.
As far as Microsoft is concerned, the Ribbon is an evolution of the GUI that is part and parcel of the Office DNA as of 2010. The choice not to include a switch back to the old-style menu bar was apparently considered long and hard, and has been solid enough to have been baked into design plans all the way back to 2007. No, I didn't take the time to dig up the references. And neither should you. That's time you could be spending coming to grips with the inevitable truth that if you want to update to Office 2010, you are simply going to HAVE to update your knowledge and learn to use the Ribbon.
Many people will be disappointed. Some will be angry. There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth. But I pray to whatever deity will listen that the whining is done AWAY from the fora, because it's very annoying and it won't change anything, no matter what.
Well.. You didn't have to click on this thread.
I think it is perfectly reasonable to say that Microsoft is going to lose customers. Angry customers are infectious.
It was wrong not to transition in the ribbon in Office 2007. They could have completely abolished it in this version; but instead of doing that, Microsoft are left with some fairly angry customers. Microsoft caused the problem, they should fix it.
My 2 cents.
Office 2007, which was the transition, has been a very strong seller. Where is the lost marketshare? People are still trying to get into the Office 2010 beta program. Where is the indication of a lack of interest? Personally in my industry I am finding fewer and fewer people using a version earlier than 2007; clients and some agencies are also now starting to ask for documents in the new file formats. Have most people I know whined for a few days upon initially using Office 2007? Yes, but they adjusted (indeed) in a few days - this includes some of the most technology challenged people I have ever met. If you don't like it then use 2003, switch to another program, or wait for the inevitable after-market add-on to give you your old menus, but I certainly haven't seen any soaring market share for either the commercial or open source competition or the 2007 add-on. There is nothing to fix because there is nothing broken - they have simply taken the interface in a direction that you do not like but many do like. BTW, if you lump all of the repeat posters, this long thread doesn't even convey a lot of interest here. A small number of vocal protesters does not make mean you have any actual groundswell of support or interest, just a few passionate people who won't let a matter drop....
Stephen
This late in the game, you are right, there will be no classic menu option, but MS should expect a large number of users to stick to previous versions of Office, and MS should expect to spend more time supporting previous versions than was necessary if they just added a classic option. It was a business decision. It was a short-sided decision. The user base and MS will pay for Microsoft's failure to recognize 30 years of user habits as a skill instead as a flaw.
First, you mean a short-sighted decision, not a short-sided decision. Second, adoption of Office 2007 has been high - where is the evidence to suggest Office 2010 will be any different? Third, what version of Office were you using in 1980? Thirty years of user habits pre-dates the general adoption of the PC in the business world. Based upon your statement regarding 30 years of habits, people should also all be using WordPerfect since, according to typists at the time, that was the best interface. BTW, even if you scale that up a few years, the early favorites were indeed Wordstar, Lotus 123, dBase, and (my least favorite) WordPerfect. Oh, in the early days of Microsoft Word and Excel, they were criticized as being not as "easy" to use as the competition. Third, the interfaces of Microsoft's office apps have evolved from version to version, sometimes in small ways and sometimes more dramatic ways. It is hardly the case that this is the first major change and people have adapted and incoprporated the changes into their workflow.
The interface changes have been made and the transition has already happened. Office 2007, which did not introduce the ribbon into all apps, was the transition. If you don't like it, you can always choose another set of apps, stick with the old suite, or wait for the inevitable after-market add on. The fact that a small number of vocal protesters dislike the new interface does not make it a mistake. It just means that you fall into the part of a market sector that the focus group work rated as being pretty negligible....
Stephen- Negative, change is good. Learn to use the ribbon its fun!
- I don't really think this negativity towards users who are familiar with the old interface is very productive. The fact that this subject keeps returning displays the number of people who are irritated by this new interface. It's all very well describing them as luddites, lazy or marginal users but the simple fact is that many of them may have uses for Word which are not suited to the new interface. This doesn't mean they should be insulted just for expressing their wishes and opinions.
It hardly seems worthwile to go over the history of word processing and the fact that it wasn't until Office 95 that the interface got anywhere near friendly. However several points that I can make are:
However successful Office 2007 may appear to be, the take up from my client base (which is pretty diverse) has been pretty poor. The majority of users seem to have stuck on 2003 for a variety of reasons such as re-training costs, upgrade costs, the credit crunch, and file incompatibility, never mind the question of volume corporate licensing and value for money issues.
A few users will defect to Open Office for the interface (although this may in turn be decided whether they change to a ribbon type inteface with project renaissance) but it won't be significant number. The ribbon interface is designed with new users in mind and those who are content to accept Microsoft's cookie cutter approach to documents. Since these users are probably the majority then there is no doubt that the ribbon is here to stay and to ____ with anyone who argues with it or likes the drop down menus.
So you now have a 600 pound gorilla on your doorstep who will not change it's mind, the only option we have, is to improve Word and find more efficient ways to achieve our objectives. I have been lucky enough to get a copy of 2010 and PowerPoint is now getting to the point where everything is laid out in a logical manner and where you would expect to find it and the increases in functionality are highly productive. Now is the time look at Word 2010 closely (and when it goes to Beta) to suggest improvements and new ways of doing things so that we can achieve what we need to do more easily. Forget the menus, it's a battle lost. Better to try and change Word 2010 into a more usuable and better product before it's released than live with the aftermath.
Kind Regards
Brad
- Every piece of software ever written has had people who liked it and others who didn't like it. If you don't like the interface then don't use it - stick with 2003 or 2000, or use Word for DOS or grab an old copy of Wordstar for that matter. What I am tired of, and indeed why I am not willing to just be warm and fuzzy about the subject, is the fact that a very small number of people insist on whining about an interface that has existed since 2007, and insist there is something wrong with the interface rather than that they simply don't like it. No functions have been removed - they have just been reorganized, and as far as Microsoft's cookie cutter approach, all software is someone's cookie cutter and Microsoft has only replaced its old cookie cutter with a new one. Above and beyond all, the 600 pound gorilla has been sitting in the room since 2007 - get over it already.There is nothing new about this argument. Hard core DOS users complained about Windows 3.X; Windows 3.X users complained about Windows 95, Windows 95 users complained about Windows 98/2000/XP, Windows XP users complain about Vista and Windows 7. Numerous people complained bitterly when their employers or institutions, dumped WordPerfect, Lotus 123, and dBase for Word, Excel, Access (I was one of the people who complained about Access). In the photography world, people have complained about the progressive redesign of the Photoshop interface, and about the interface of Lightroom (which doesn't even have a predecessor). Actually, even in the magical world of Mac's, some have complained about Tiger, Leopard, and Snow Leopard in sequence, and a bunch of Mac users (ironically) complained when the Mac version of Office wasn't immediately updated at the time Office 2007 was released. People are welcome to complain to their heart's content. I also wouldn't have responded (or ever looked at this little whine festival again) except I forgot to uncheck the alert me box. I will not, however, make that mistake again. Having had more silly e-mail postings implying that there is some sort of an error in the interface just because specific individuals don't like it, and other flat-out misrepresentations and inaccuracies presented as fact, I made my second to last response.If one does not like the interface then do not use it, just do not also suggest that it is some horrible injustice. Hanging out to whine incessantly about an issue as if it is new when it has been closed since at least 2007 (actually probably earlier), is just about as productive as the crowd (again small) who insisted on complaining over the injustice of the disappearance of the "Classic Menu" in Windows 7. Oh, which classic Office interface do people want? Is it the one in 2003 or XP or 2000 or one of the earlier versions? It has after all evolved in each version since the jump from DOS to Windows. Maybe it is those tried and true practices from 30 years ago, before the development of the PC. BTW, yes, the competition are developing their own versions of the ribbon.Stephen
Dear dagrimdialer619
I agree with your statement entirely, you have started one of the most useful threads for MS – let us hope they comprehend its message, and take the action we desire, as PAYING customers.
I cannot comment of OFFICE 2010 as I do not have a copy – I have to use this forum to try and find out ,what its problems are, without actually seeing for myself.
This is one of the largest threads and refers to the Classic Menu System – from what people are saying it appears that the ribbon system is similar to that of OFFICE 2007.
I have been using OFFICE 2007 and once set-up – it is great!
However, to set-up OFFICE as we want, takes too much time – most people who actually use OFFICE as a tool, see this as inefficiency on Microsoft’s part.
Every version of MS Products to date has moved, and made it unnecessarily difficult, to find something that you use a lot – We suffer this only to make use of the ACTUAL CHANGES and benefits of moving to the next version of software. These benefits are useful to us, but hiding what we normally use is NOT.
We need OPTIONS ! we need to cater for ALL people who use the software, Young, Old,etc.
People who shout for only the OPTION that suits them are generally misguided, and have very little life experience. We have to tolerate them, they will eventually see the error of their ways (I know I am a optimist).
People have never used ALL of what OFFICE can provide – in any version. They only use what is pertinent to them. Take WORD for instance – for most purposes OFFICE 2000 is more than adequate. After all, it’s not like going back to typewriters now, is it?
I personally prefer to use OFFICE 2007 because of its translation of languages – but I respect others who PAY for the Software, to have the OPTIONS they require.
I believe that if MS is not careful, it could shoot itself in the foot – backwards compatibility is a gentile way to go forward – and it PAYS DIVIDENDS, listening only to newcomers on the block may well be the beginning of the end
Sincere Regards, TLS
- First, you are right: short-sighted and 20 not 30 years. Proof reading always helps and I didn't. Sure, Windows 3.0 didn't come out until the early 90s, but the "File, Edit, Insert" menu goes at least as far back as the Basic DOS editor in 5.1 (my memory is fuzzy here). I could probably find something further back, but to go back before Windows seems unnecessary.Here is my main point. I believe the classic vertical drop down menu with customizable rows should have been maintained in some fashion to help in the conversion to 2007. The newly rearranged and single horizontal menu system was drastic enough that loyal users should have been given more consideration. It isn't only a question of the word processor, and it isn't about just now recognizing the problem in the 2010 version. I think adoption of 2007 would have increased with a classic menu option and, in the reports I saw about the subject, the interface was the number one reason why people did not upgrade.The point of my previously post on this subject (intended to be my last) was that it's over. What we want will never be. Not because I have changed my mind about the ribbon UI (still using it and still hating it two years running), but because Microsoft has no intention of changing and the pressure to get them to change is insufficient.I didn't proof read this either. I have lost interest.
- Rob Meek wrote (well, this was a long time ago, but still...):
> ...the decision to avoid having a 'classic menu' option was quite deliberate.
> There are many reasons why such an option is a bad idea, but the most
> fundamental is that if it was there, users who are (dare I say) lazy would
> simply take the option and stick with the old menus and toolbars.
First, I resent being called lazy. I am a computational linguist by trade, and I probably spend a lot more time writing and working on the computer than most people spend period.
Second, yes, I would "take the option and stick with the old menus" (but not the toolbars, thank you; they're just as bad as the ribbon IMO). I can use the menus by reading, something which I learned to do in first grade. Those meaningless icons just get in the way of reading the labels beneath them. (Ok, I probably learned to look at pictures a long time ago, too.) One reason I would stick with the menus is that their organization is logical; I just spent hours today working with PowerPoint 2007, and not only did I have trouble finding the commands I wanted, I never did discover any rhyme or reason to them.
Another reason I would stick with the menus is that I can modify them so that commands I need are there. The ribbon is un-customizable (apart from the ability to put a few meaningless icons for commands I *really* want up in the corner, where the only way I can get at them is with the mouse--don't you know there's a keyboard attached to my computer?)
A third reason I would stick with the menus is that I can modify them so that the commands I don't want aren't there. I find that 80% of the ribbon's commands are things I not only never use, but *would* never use. Take the paragraph formatting commands in Word, for example. I have *never* wanted to a ragged left paragraph, and I very *seldom* want a centered paragraph. If I did want a centered paragraph, it would be because it was a title or subtitle--and then I would use the Title or Subtitle *style*, I would never hard-format the paragraph. Similarly for right-to-left text. I have no idea what the tipped paint bucket is for, or the thing with the double-headed vertical arrow next to some horizontal lines, or the whiteboard with 'Aa' and an eraser; totally meaningless icons for useless functionality! Super-/subscript? I might have used that once last year, but I probably selected the text and used the font dialog box. Find, Replace, Cut, Copy, Paste, Goto, Select? No thanks, I have keystrokes for that.
The styles ribbonette might be useful, if it had more functionality; but as it is so anemic, I use the styles dialog that docks at the right-hand side of the page. (Yes, for that I have to use the mouse; I wish it weren't so.)
The entire Mailings ribbon (ribbonette?) is wasted screen space to me, as is the Page Layout ribbon. (I can't remember the last time I did page layout, but I'd be happy to see a single menu item that led to a dialog box; but waste an entire ribbon on it? Why on Earth?) I suppose sometimes I use the View and Review ribbons.
Oh, and today I looked for the Help ribbon to find a function that wasn't on the ribbon (in PowerPoint). Ah, but there isn't one; there's only that tiny icon over at the right side.
And don't tell me I should just try it and I'll get used to it. I have been forced to use Office 2007 every day at work for the last year and a half, and I still hate it. It's so nice when I get home and can use Office 2003...
In sum, we are not dumb, we are not lazy, and we are not luddites. We just want choice--our own choice, not Microsoft's choice pushed down our throats.
McSwell In my company we didn't install Office 2007 because we do not want to retrain everyone. As said above it is ridiculous to impose this Office 2007 Ribon. Not only should we loose all of our habits, but most of the new screen are 16/9 and this ribon takes a lot of place in the height of the screen. We should at list be able to choose to restore previous classic menu. We are considering migrating to OpenOffice otherwise.
The ribbon (and only the ribbon) would make you switch to OpenOffice ?
Hahahaha.
You can as well stay with Office 2003 you know.
Regards Picsoe- Picsoe Microsoft fan (appropriate name) replied to someone else's msg:
> The ribbon (and only the ribbon) would make you switch to OpenOffice ?
The ribbon and the ribbon alone would certainly make me change, yes. Why should I put up with a worthless user interface when there are better choices?
> Hahahaha.
I'm not sure why you think this is funny.
> You can as well stay with Office 2003 you know.
You can if you can still buy it. Hard drives wear out, you know, and computers get replaced; and at least the CDs I have have a limited # of installs. - Stephen wrote:
> a very small number of people insist on whining about an interface that
> has existed since 2007, and insist there is something wrong with the
> interface rather than that they simply don't like it.
If we don't like it, and if there is another interface that we do like, then yes, there *is* something wrong with the interface. After all, it is a *user* interface, and we are users. I suggest you (and Microsoft) read Donald Norman's "The Design of Everyday Things." Written way back in the 80s, one of his points is that if the user can't figure out how to use the interface, it's likely the interface's fault, not the user's. And I have no clue what the majority of the icons on the Ribbon mean, nor (when I do find out by experimenting) why I would want to do most of those things; they just get in the way.
And as for the thing we're whining about having existed since 2007, well, there's another interface that we don't whine about and which has existed since the 1980s.
> If one does not like the interface then do not use it
That's precisely our point; we can't stop using it, because for many of us we are forced to use Office 2007 (e.g. at work), and THERE'S NO CHOICE. None of us (I think) is asking that the ribbon be deleted, we're just asking for the option of using the interface we prefer. And we're complaining because Microsoft has taken away our choice.
Mike Maxwell - IMHO, a "Classic Interface" choice is a bad idea. It would make the software bigger and more complex, hence more prone to bugs, and learning the ribbon is really not hard. My impression is that most users use a small set of features all the time, a few more features once in a while, and most of the features never. The problem is that no two people have the same sets. It's easy enough to put the handful of features you use most often on the Quick Access Toolbar, so you're not locked into using the ribbon to find those features. I think it would be better to help people adapt to the new UI, even if it takes some support time at the beginning. Once they know that a temper tantrum will not get them Office (whatever) back and use 2007 (or 2010) for a few days they will be fine. If more users would actually use the online help screens and try to think about what they are doing rather than working strictly by rote these issues would not come up.
The real issue is that some people are unhappy with anything new, and age is not the cause; where I work some people are stilll using Word Perfect 6.1 (!), and will border on hysteria if you suggest changing. Lacking the authority to force anyone to do anything, I try to make the current product convenient to use while giving everybody what they need.- Proposed As Answer byAnonymous6121324 Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:58 PM
- Unproposed As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:46 PM
I don't quite think you get it. .. Microsoft Office is the most widely used Office application in the world. I honestly don't think it's coming back myself now.. - but our argument was that this change stopped productivity. This would be a major concern if the most used Office application in the world could not please a fair majority of its customer base.
The real issue is that some people are unhappy with anything new, and age is not the cause; where I work some people are stilll using Word Perfect 6.1 (!), and will border on hysteria if you suggest changing. Lacking the authority to force anyone to do anything, I try to make the current product convenient to use while giving everybody what they need.
Regards,
Peter Styles
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx- Office 2010 - Resolution of Drop menu Issue (for me and hopefully quite a few other users)
I have been enormously frustrated by the changes in Office 2007 which I have mentioned before as I felt it handicapped users with specific requirements. Even though the Ribbon was extensively tested on many targets group the final set of commands available pandered to simple options and most frequently required solutions to the majority of users and and newbies. I have used customized tool bars for years for short-cuts method dependent on the type of work required which MS's standard tool bars did not cater for. For instance Font Substitution and organizer I use many times during the day which a lot of people do not.
Well I think it's patently obvious by now that the old drop down tool-bars will not reurned in any form and even Open Office is likely to follow the ribbon model. I have finally had the opportunity to get into the guts of Office 2010 Technical Preview and at the very least my prayers have been answered. Although it won't replace drop-down menus at least Microsoft have now given access to make the Ribbon customizable - this is manna from heaven.
I have had a look at both Word and PowerPoint and if you click on the coloured application button in either programme then select Word or PowerPoint options you can then select Customize Ribbon. Not only does this allow to add a new named tab but a group and add any commands that you wish. Further to this you can rename the tab, Export all Ribbon and QAT Customizations. Import a Customization File or Restore Defaults. In addition Word also allows you to customize Keyboard Shortcuts.
Frankly this is the answer to all my issues and I hope it will allow other users to be more productive using the Ribbon interface. This will allow the user the access to the commands they require as fast and effeciently as possible.
Hope this work for many of you too.
Kind Regards
Brad
- Marked As Answer bydagrimdialer619 Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:55 AM
Office 2010 - Resolution of Drop menu Issue (for me and hopefully quite a few other users)
Considering that Office 2010 is near a release, that sir, is an answer!.. and I shall mark it so!
I have been enormously frustrated by the changes in Office 2007 which I have mentioned before as I felt it handicapped users with specific requirements. Even though the Ribbon was extensively tested on many targets group the final set of commands available pandered to simple options and most frequently required solutions to the majority of users and and newbies. I have used customized tool bars for years for short-cuts method dependent on the type of work required which MS's standard tool bars did not cater for. For instance Font Substitution and organizer I use many times during the day which a lot of people do not.
Well I think it's patently obvious by now that the old drop down tool-bars will not reurned in any form and even Open Office is likely to follow the ribbon model. I have finally had the opportunity to get into the guts of Office 2010 Technical Preview and at the very least my prayers have been answered. Although it won't replace drop-down menus at least Microsoft have now given access to make the Ribbon customizable - this is manna from heaven.
I have had a look at both Word and PowerPoint and if you click on the coloured application button in either programme then select Word or PowerPoint options you can then select Customize Ribbon. Not only does this allow to add a new named tab but a group and add any commands that you wish. Further to this you can rename the tab, Export all Ribbon and QAT Customizations. Import a Customization File or Restore Defaults. In addition Word also allows you to customize Keyboard Shortcuts.
Frankly this is the answer to all my issues and I hope it will allow other users to be more productive using the Ribbon interface. This will allow the user the access to the commands they require as fast and effeciently as possible.
Hope this work for many of you too.
Kind Regards
Brad
Regards,
Peter
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspx- What is the problem with Microsoft and their fan club?
Stop "educating" me on the start menu. Read my type:
We the PEOPLE want the OPTION of CLASSIC START MENUs!
WE THE PEOPLE WANT THE OPTION OF CLASSIC START MENUs!
We the people want the option of classic start menus!
understand??? CLASSIC START MENUs!!!
end of debate. What is the problem with Microsoft and their fan club?
What are you on about?.. this is a forum on Office 2010. It goes for the old internet saying... If you don't have anything relevant to contribute, then....
Stop "educating" me on the start menu. Read my type:
We the PEOPLE want the OPTION of CLASSIC START MENUs!
WE THE PEOPLE WANT THE OPTION OF CLASSIC START MENUs!
We the people want the option of classic start menus!
understand??? CLASSIC START MENUs!!!
end of debate.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspxWhat is the problem with Microsoft and their fan club?
Stop "educating" me on the start menu. Read my type:
We the PEOPLE want the OPTION of CLASSIC START MENUs!
WE THE PEOPLE WANT THE OPTION OF CLASSIC START MENUs!
We the people want the option of classic start menus!
understand??? CLASSIC START MENUs!!!
end of debate.
Actually, I think you the person want something - not we the people. Last I checked the royal we is not used in the United States and Microsoft is still a US headquartered company. If you really think that you are the people, there are med's you can take for that sort of condition.
Microsoft is allowed to make its own business decisions and in this case they did so based upon focus groups, market analysis, and user feedback. Guess what? After all of that they took the ribbon to the next level. Get over it and either 1) stick with Office 2003, 2) move to another product, 3) pay attention to the fact that the 2010 ribbon can be customized to one's heart's content, 4) buy an add-on to get your precious menu back, or 5) continue whining about something that is not going to change. BTW, if you want to go with another product, I am not familiar with any company that is not exploring (or developing) its own version of a ribbon. Oh, neither the old Windows XP Start Menu nor the Office 2003 menu system are "classic" menus. They are just the old menus from specific versions - each menu has changed in minor or major ways with each version of Windows and Office. Yes, there is an end of debate in this - the old menu is gone and is not coming back....
Stephen
What is the problem with Microsoft and their fan club?
Stop "educating" me on the start menu. Read my type:
We the PEOPLE want the OPTION of CLASSIC START MENUs!
WE THE PEOPLE WANT THE OPTION OF CLASSIC START MENUs!
We the people want the option of classic start menus!
understand??? CLASSIC START MENUs!!!
end of debate.
I'm pretty sure that guy was just being a moron..
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/community-codeofconduct.aspxWhat is the problem with Microsoft and their fan club?
Stop "educating" me on the start menu. Read my type:
We the PEOPLE want the OPTION of CLASSIC START MENUs!
WE THE PEOPLE WANT THE OPTION OF CLASSIC START MENUs!
We the people want the option of classic start menus!
understand??? CLASSIC START MENUs!!!
end of debate.
Actually, I think you the person want something - not we the people. Last I checked the royal we is not used in the United States and Microsoft is still a US headquartered company. If you really think that you are the people, there are med's you can take for that sort of condition.
Microsoft is allowed to make its own business decisions and in this case they did so based upon focus groups, market analysis, and user feedback. Guess what? After all of that they took the ribbon to the next level. Get over it and either 1) stick with Office 2003, 2) move to another product, 3) pay attention to the fact that the 2010 ribbon can be customized to one's heart's content, 4) buy an add-on to get your precious menu back, or 5) continue whining about something that is not going to change. BTW, if you want to go with another product, I am not familiar with any company that is not exploring (or developing) its own version of a ribbon. Oh, neither the old Windows XP Start Menu nor the Office 2003 menu system are "classic" menus. They are just the old menus from specific versions - each menu has changed in minor or major ways with each version of Windows and Office. Yes, there is an end of debate in this - the old menu is gone and is not coming back....
Stephen
Amen to that.
Thanks, Callum Kerr.
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