Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:52 PM
I am looking at the following for a server set up and would just like some advice please.
The client has 25 users an old SBS2008 server (2.4Ghz xeon quad core, 8GB Ram) The have 3TB of storage (1TB(C:) + 2TB(D:)) using 1.5-2TB of user/shared data
(as you can imagine this server is maxed out as no additional ram can be installed)
We are looking to do an upgrade to SBS2011.
I am looking at a Dell T620 with 32GB Ram for this which should be more than adequate and give future prospects when having to go to a proper server in several years. This server has pretty much been decided on. The server comes with a 600GB C drive which I am planning to use for OS and Exchange (partitioned) I am going to add a 1TB 10k drive for the Redirected folders to this (obviously both drives have a 2nd in RAID1). This means the server will use approximately 800GB of storage for the emails and redirected files. Because there is under 2TB of data I should be able to use the SBS Backup system which will save having to buy seperate backup software.
I am looking to use the old server with an install of Server 2008R2 as SBS2011 CALS will cover access to this. I am going to use so far with 1TB 10k (2 drives RAID1). On this I will be storing the Shared Files and the Sage Line 50 Files (to offload it from the main server).
Now with the Server 2008R2, I believe there is a backup software included in it with the server which can be used to backup the data?
I believe I should be able to add it as a second server to the SBS network? Is this easy enough to do?
Will 8GB of ram be sufficient for basically a 2008R2 fileserver and backup?
Any other good uses?
Any other thoughts?
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:38 AMFor 25 users I would go for raid 10 instead of raid 1 on the data drives and maybe a second processor. Are you going for the 710 raid card with 1gb and battery backup?
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:42 AM
I did think of RAID 10, but the 600GB drive is a 15k drive with unknown make and model, have to have it off Dell.
Where as the 10k drive is a WD.... so I'd rather keep them separate for simplicity reasons. I don't want the 1TB from Dell as you have to pay a fortune or get a 7200 drive
I will be getting the Perc710 512MB Raid. No where does it mention on Dells site about the backup it is one of the questions I still have to ask, I am having a blinding faith that they would sella Cached RAID card without battery backup in todays realisitc world (looks for flying pigs)
The T620 comes with a second CPU, I have had previous feedback that this is overkill, however I am looking to make sure the server could run a normal server OS in several years with a cloud based solution - the way SBS has gone with 2012 (Due to UK broadband in my clients area, we just want to maximise the use of a local solution before looking at cloud solutions, hence the upgrade now)
My main unknowns are about using the old server as a 2008R2 server attached/controlled by the new SBS2011 server, if its capable for a basic file server and backup, and if it is possible.
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 11:52 AM
Dont try and fully spec it through the Dell website - its dreadful, prices are a joke, and it rarely provides all the available options. Speak to an account manager. give them your ideal spec, see what they come up with price wise, then tell them your budget and do some bartering, reducing the spec if need be (ie. removing drives and installing your own). Again though, the cost of the drives of the Dell website is a joke, compared to what they can and will supply them at when dealing with an account manager (although you'll find you go through account managers like hot dinners if you do it on every quote!).
With regard to reusing the old server as a 2nd server in the sbs2011 domain - yes absolutely, dead easy. Opbviously you'll need a 2008r2 svr license, which will likely be best bought as part of the SBS premium addon - which then gives you the virtualisation options to play with (which I have to date avoided in favour of the old school physical server1 & server2, but I have the option available in the future). The only thing to be careful of here, which seems to get forgotten often is you really don't want to be buying SBS2011 on an OEM license, as you lose some of the benfits of being able to move to different hardware and so on.
Will 8GB of ram be sufficient for basically a 2008R2 fileserver and backup? its been running SBS - you are reducing the workload!
There is backup built in to the 2008r2, but its a pain to manage, and I don't you can schedule backup to remote/network drive, only local. If you are only using it as a file store I'd do a manual system image (this can be done to network share) for keep sakes, and then sync the folders back to some spare space on the SBS server. The SB server can then backup using its built in wiz. Or if you are going 3rd party bacup route, look at 2nd server options (which I'm currently doing)
- Edited by I_miss_WinXP Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:08 PM
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:52 PM
I think you'll find that the 710 cache is NV RAM, no battery required.
With RAM cheap as chips I'd more likely retire that old server and throw 48GB, maybe 64GB, in the new. Get Server12 (as OEM) to use as HyperV and then run SBS11 (OL/VL/Retail) and the +2 Windows instances (Sage and maybe RDS) under HyperV. Note that even if you exercise 'downgrade rights' to run Sage as 08R2 you will still need additional Server12 CALs.
The cost difference will probably be offset via the power saving of not running the 2nd server over a couple of year period.
But then, under my plan or yours I'd junk the disparate drives and just get 6-8 10K SAS to run as RAID6.
- Marked As Answer by Aiden_CaoMicrosoft Contingent Staff, Moderator Wednesday, February 20, 2013 2:44 AM
Friday, February 15, 2013 9:49 AM
The Hard Drives I am getting separately apart from the basic install of the two 600GB ones that you have to get with the server. (all others are additional price)
I have already quoted for a separate Server2008R2 license - however I am confused about the Premium. Everywhere I look for the premium addon it seems far more expensive than the Server 2008R2 on its own. (I have always assumed this is because of the SQL software included which they wont be using).
SBS2011 comes naturally as an OEM with the server. However I have looked for retail licenses, just now, for SBS2011 and can't see where they would be obtained from? To be hoenst different hardware isn't going to be an issue for the company as the server should last them longer than they will want to use the software, and if there is a server break down after the warranty period it is likely the infreastructure will be in place for the cloud styled solution 2012 wants.
Thanks for confirming *gb will handle Server2008R2, I had the same thought about the fact that there is less workload so it should handle it, I just wanted someone to confirm.
The backup? - The trouble with the company is they have over 2TB of data combined. So if i put all on the SBS server I then have to deal with different backup software which adds another £500 to costs, then I also need to deal with Hard Drives to backup to that are bigger than 2TB which I just give up with pre-2012, since all this hassel of the 512e and 4k and the fact the only 2 OS's that support 4k properly is 2012 or 8. And the other effect that backing up to over 2TB drives has a support issues I've seen like it backs up but 't restore , or doesn't do either. So as sbs2011 is serv2008r2 based I;d just like to avoid this headache.
Also the company doesn;t want to feel they lost out on the old spec server so they want to make a good use to it. Plus with Sage issues (one thing that was slowing the network down for most users and is only used by 2) thats why I thought moving all to a second server would be a good idea for the shared files and sage.
How does the inbuilt backup work? whats so bad about it? I have not had chance to use a server backup software. Doing local backups is fine, they are used to swapping a Hard Drive every day and keeping 3 offsite, (5HDD rotation). So any advice or issues on using the inbuilt backup would be greatfully received. Surly it has to be down the line of the SBS backup, as doesn;t the SBS console just give a simplified version of 2008R2 backup?
What do you mean by 2nd server options?
Friday, February 15, 2013 9:50 AM
Hi Super, thanks for the advice, we are staying away from HyperV at the moment until I personally have more experience in this and the client is prefering to have a 1 server 1 os situation at the moment. Thanks so much for the advice here on this, its just that choice at the moment.
Saturday, February 16, 2013 9:45 PM
I recently took SG's advice on a server re RAID config. Went for 6xSAS R10, and divided into 3 or 4 sensible volumes. So simple to setup, no worries about locating log files seperate to databases, and performance is excellent.
Premium add-on, yes the 2008r2 license and sql license are the main components, but the Hyper-V/virtualisation is most techie's biggest attraction from what I can understand. I have avoided this to be honest, as its over my head, but I have still purchased the prem addon to give the flexibility in the future. I always justify the cost with the "what if" scenarios, its a couple of hundred now, or £1000's later. In your case, use the old 2nd server as the bargaining chip. Great to utilise the old working hardware, and not jump in with virtualisation if your not ready, but when that server is a couple of years older, and your wishing you could do away with it you can - because you could still virtualise everything back to the main server.
My limited understanding of the virtualisation side of things is that the biggest benefit is, being able to pick up the virtual machine and put it on another virtual host within minutes, but this breaches the OEM terms (I stand to be corrected on this). I always consider OEM to be only as good as the warranty of the server, so usually opt for 5yr NBD, but this includes all the drives and RAM (going back to my last post). That way you don't have to worry about sourcing 5yr out of date compatible disks in a hurry.
2011 is available retail. eg here Bluesolutions , sbs2011 std is at the bottom.
Nothing wrong with the 2008r2 backup, it'll backup the server quite happily, but its not so end user friendly as the sbs2011 backup, not sure you can send email notification and the likes from it even (I stand to be corrected - I have only used it occasionally).
If you haven't used the SBS2011 backup before, when you add you additional drives to the rotation (they have to be added as usable media and formatted accordingly) you must keep the 1st drive connected when you add each additional drive to the available media, if you don't do this the add media wizard fails.
Re backup 2nd server options - I was referring to 3rd party backup softwares that you can have a 2nd server managed and/or backup to the main server. As per my own post re backup softwares that you've responded to I believe, the problem here is the cost.
PS. I've had performance issues with newer versions of Sage over a network on brand new hardware, dreadful software! Thankfully most of my customers run in locally and backup daily to the server. Another possibility here is of you were hosting sage and RDS on a 2nd server (physical or virtual) you could install it on the RDS as a remoteapp, and simply have a shortcut to it on their PC's, avoiding network performance issues.
- Edited by I_miss_WinXP Saturday, February 16, 2013 9:55 PM