Is a system image necessary every backup cycle?
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Thursday, October 11, 2012 1:32 PM
I have a Win7 Ult connected through an internal nework router to a NAS. I want to reduce the time taken to backup this machine (and others in the local network). I started out using Backup Restore and let windows choose what to back up to the NAS drive. It selected all the C drive files I expected and included a System Image of the C drive. This is taking longer and longer each time (as you might expect) and the question is:
Is a system image necessary every backup cycle?
Will restoring the only system image that is stored on a network drive and then the files and folders saved later be sufficient to recover from a disaster?
Alan Cameron
All Replies
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Thursday, October 11, 2012 5:12 PM
It is not clear from your post if you are referring to data file backups or to image backups.
About your last question: Since you appear to be responsible for several machines, it is not sufficient for you to ask in this forum if your method covers you for a disaster. To be really sure you must do this:
- Create whatever backup you think is appropriate.
- Pretend that you had a hard disk failure, by replacing the hard disk of one of your machines with a blank disk.
- See if you can restore it to working condition.
After completing this exercise you will be fully confident that you can do the job.
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Thursday, October 11, 2012 5:42 PM
It is not clear from your post if you are referring to data file backups or to image backups.
About your last question: Since you appear to be responsible for several machines, it is not sufficient for you to ask in this forum if your method covers you for a disaster. To be really sure you must do this:
- Create whatever backup you think is appropriate.
- Pretend that you had a hard disk failure, by replacing the hard disk of one of your machines with a blank disk.
- See if you can restore it to working condition.
After completing this exercise you will be fully confident that you can do the job.
Thanks for the answer. I knew I should never have asked more than one question at a time.
In the first part I was referring to an individual machine using Backup/Restore from Windows 7. The wizard that helps a user to configure their backup the first time says that if allowed Windows will select the files that need to be backed up. It also allows the user to define the drives from which their local files are to be backed up.
Assuming that the user is not educated in what to choose the result is that Backup will select all the necessary Windows files and all the files from the drives (C) selected. It will also choose to take an image copy of the C drive. Now the user is complaining that it takes too long to back up their computer and wants to shorten the time. If we take out the system image backup AFTER the first one can the system be fully restored from what has been backed up?
In the second part I was trying to expand my scenario and of course to recover from a disaster you have to have off-site backups taken and proven to work to be sure of recovery. The same question arises because Backup refuses to keep more than one system image on a network drive does the user have to keep on saving a copy every time they run Backup?
Alan Cameron
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Thursday, October 11, 2012 6:52 PM
Assuming that the user is not educated in what to choose the result is that Backup will select all the necessary Windows files and all the files from the drives (C) selected. It will also choose to take an image copy of the C drive. Now the user is complaining that it takes too long to back up their computer and wants to shorten the time. If we take out the system image backup AFTER the first one can the system be fully restored from what has been backed up?
-> Users should never be allowed to configure the backup process. It's an administrator's task.
-> Backing up the whole drive C: is pointless. You should back up data files only.
-> If you have several users in the one office then you should install a Small Business Server for centralised data storage and backup.
-> An image is something an administrator creates or updates once or twice a year.In the second part I was trying to expand my scenario and of course to recover from a disaster you have to have off-site backups taken and proven to work to be sure of recovery. The same question arises because Backup refuses to keep more than one system image on a network drive does the user have to keep on saving a copy every time they run Backup?
-> You can keep several images by renaming the folders where they are kept.
-> As I said before, creating images is for administrators, not for users. -
Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:14 PM
An older system image will not have newer installs or updates. You should keep your image up to date.
I use windows backup (for data and image) and a seperate backup for data only. Data is not much good if you no longer have the program that can use it.
As for the time it takes, Schedule backup to run when your not using your system.
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Friday, October 12, 2012 7:49 AM
As helpful as all the answers given are, they do not answer the fundamental question.
If a system image is created the first time Windows Backup is run and then not again is it possible to recover a system using the System Image and the files backed up later?
Alan Cameron
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Friday, October 12, 2012 9:44 AM
As helpful as all the answers given are, they do not answer the fundamental question.
If a system image is created the first time Windows Backup is run and then not again is it possible to recover a system using the System Image and the files backed up later?
Alan Cameron
Your question "If a system image is created the first time Windows Backup is run" implies a fundamental lack of understanding. "System Image [creation]" and "Windows backup" are two completely separate process with different purposes and different results. Which one are you referring to - System Image creation or Windows Backup?
To clarify your question it might be helpful if you reworded it in a step-by-step fashion, e.g. like so:- I create a system image.
- I run Windows backup.
- I replace my disk with a blank disk.
- I perform a system restore, using the image created in Step 1.
- I use Windows backup to restore the files that I backed up in Step 2.
Is this the scenario you had in mind?
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Friday, October 12, 2012 10:32 AM
That scenario is close to the situation I am trying to resolve.
I would alter the steps of your scenarion to read.
- I run Windows Backup including the option to create a system image of the C drive.
- I then change the settings of Windows Backup to omit the creation of further system images and run Windows Backup for all the necessary files plus the local files on the C drive.
- I then replace my disk with a blank disk.
- I perform a system restore, using the image created in step 1.
- I use Windows Backup to restore all the necessary files and local files I backed up in step 1 and step 2.
Is the result a full recovery of the C drive?
Alan Cameron
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Friday, October 12, 2012 11:01 AMIt depends on what exactly you mean with "for all the necessary files plus the local files on the C drive" in your Step 2.
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Friday, October 12, 2012 3:27 PM
I refer to the blurb associated with the Windows Backup program
<q>
Let Windows chose (recommended)
Windows will back up data files saved in libraries, on the desktop, and in default Windows folders.
Windows will also create a system image, which can be used to restore computer it it stops working. These items will be backed up on a regular schedule. How does Windows choose what files to back up?
</q>
for the last item see below
<q>
If you let Windows choose what
is backed up, the following items are included in your backup:
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Data files that are saved in libraries,
on the desktop, and in default Windows folders
for all people with a user account on the computer.
Notes
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Only local files in libraries are included in the backup. If you
have files in a library that are saved on a drive located on a different
computer on a network, on the Internet, on the same drive that you are saving
the backup on, or on a drive that is not formatted using the NTFS
file system, they aren't included in the backup.
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Default Windows folders include
AppData, Contacts, Desktop, Downloads, Favorites, Links, Saved Games, and
Searches.
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If the drive you are saving your backup on is formatted using the
NTFS file system and has enough disk space, a system image of your programs,
Windows, and all drivers and registry settings
are also included in the backup. This image can be used to restore the contents
of your computer if your hard drive or computer stops working. For more
information, see What is a
system image?
</q>
This what it means by necessary files to restore the computer.
Alan Cameron
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Friday, October 12, 2012 3:55 PM
You will recover to the date of the image, so yes you will be recovered.
But anything added to your system after the date of the image will not be there.
If you install a program after your created image, that program will not be restored. You will have to re-install the program again.
- Marked As Answer by AlanCam Friday, October 12, 2012 5:43 PM
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Friday, October 12, 2012 4:31 PM
This what it means by necessary files to restore the computer.
Alan Cameron
I assume that Larsel's reply answered your question.
In the Windows help facility I found this paragraph:
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If the drive you are saving your backup on is formatted using the NTFS file system and has enough disk space, a system image of your programs, Windows, and all drivers and registry settings are also included in the backup. This image can be used to restore the contents of your computer if your hard drive or computer stops working.
IMHO this is a terrible way of going about things. A data backup and an image backup are two completely different concepts and should not be mixed, yet this is exactly what the above paragraph says. There are several drawbacks to this method, e.g.
- Backups take forever.
- They result in a huge backup volume.
- Data needs to be backed up daily or weekly in a home environment. Doing an image backup so often is unnecessary and wasteful.
- I suspect that it is difficult to maintain several versions of an image.
In general I am not impressed with the backup and image creation tools included with Windows 7. I prefer to use my own method (for backing up files) and third-party tools (for creating images).
Whichever method you use, remember that an untested backup solution is an unreliable solution. Maybe it will work when the crunch comes, maybe it won't.
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