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AnswerWDS and Vista install

  • Monday, February 23, 2009 8:15 PMRimvydas Users MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
     
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    Hi,
     
    So as we installed 2008 servers in our domain I started to explore WDS possibilities. I prepared new client and using sysprep and capture image I uploaded this image to WDS server. I've tried to deploy this image to another client. Image was downloaded and after it was downloaded ,ordinary vista installation has started:/ Is that expected behaviour? I thought If I'm using imaging (like I used with ghost) I must see only image download and sysprep run and not the whole vista installation like it was started from DVD. Is it possible to achieve what I want to see?

    If not is it possible to create reference client run imagex on this client and put wim file on wds for install? Thanks.
     

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  • Tuesday, February 24, 2009 7:29 AMJohan ArwidmarkMVPUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
     
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    Sure is... the image on the Vista DVD is actually a sysprepped image... and WDS is very good in just applying an image to disk... If you want to do more customizations you should extend WDS with the free Microsoft Deployment Toolkit (MDT) 2008...

    Anyway, check my article on how to make WDS behave like ghost (e.g. fully automated)

    Fully Unattended Vista Setup using WDS
    http://www.deployvista.com/Blog/tabid/70/EntryID/41/language/sv-SE/Default.aspx

     
     
  • Tuesday, February 24, 2009 9:22 AMRimvydas Users MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
     
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    I'll ask in the different way:)

    Is it possible to deploy Vista image using WDS without full unattended installation using wim image which was created with capture image?:) I only want image deployed and sysprep run after that. I do not need this full unattended installation which still takes so long time to complete:(

    I prepared my client, created wim file using capture image and I simply do not understand why full unattended installation is done when I'm trying to deploy this wim file:/ I only want to deploy image and run sysprep after that which takes my needed values from its configuration file. As for now if I want quickly deploy my image using WDS I can't because I'm forced to wait for a long time when this unattended installation will finish:(

    So I thought maybe imagex will help in there because it will not force me to unattended installation.
     
  • Tuesday, February 24, 2009 9:56 AMJohan ArwidmarkMVPUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
     
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    I'll explain it in another way  :)

    There is no such thing as an unattended (XP unattend.txt) setup with Vista... Vista is always an image, and you can use setup (or WDS calling setup) to install the default image (install.wim) or a custom image.

    Use unattend.xml to automate the specialize and oobe configuration passes when applying the custom image using WDS...
     
  • Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:23 AMRimvydas Users MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
     
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    Then explain me the following thing:)

    Why do I see full Vista installation after I deploy my prepared image and when deployed vista is started for the first time? It seems in exactly the same way and takes the same ammount of time as if I'm trying to install Vista installation from the DVD. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that when I'm using imaging software I must see the following thing - image is deployed and only sysprep is run after that and no any installations are done which take a lot of time to complete. I think I can achieve what I want in the following way:

    1. Client is prepared
    2. Sysprep is run
    3. Client is imaged using Imagex
    4. Image is restored to different workstation using imagex
    5. Vista starts without any installations and sysprep is run which take few additional minutes to complete.

    So the whole procedure takes 15 mins to complete instead of 30mins (WDS installation)

    So in general I have the following:

    When image is deployed using WDS and when deployed client starts, vista installation begins and it takes the same ammount of time to complete as the normal vista install from the DVD (30minutes)

    But when I deploy image which I created using imagex, vista starts without any installations, sysprep is run and thats all whole process takes somewhere in about 15mins.

    So my main question would be - why do I see this vista installation when I create wim image using capture image from the wds:)

    I can't explain my problem in more clear way:)
     
  • Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:54 AMJohan ArwidmarkMVPUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
     
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    When using WDS, it always run setup to apply images (as well as Lite Touch in MDT does), no matter if its the default image or a custom image that you captured...

    When deploying a custom image from WDS in our Lab, it takes 18 minutes to deploy to a virtual machine.

    When deploying the same custom image from a file share on the same WDS server using ImageX, it takes 14 minutes to deploy to a virtual machine. So yes, ImageX is a bit faster, but not that much...

    If you want to run imagex /apply you have to create a custom WinPE Image and skip WDS.

     
  • Tuesday, February 24, 2009 1:33 PMRimvydas Users MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
     
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    Johan,

    I only wanted to say that when I deploy image using WDS it deploys image and after first restart Vista installation starts and not a sysprep on deployed image. As you're saying that setup file is used with WDS then I think I must encounter such a behaviour:( Even computer performance index is calculated during this time:/ I measured install times.

    Installed Vista from DVD - 25 minutes.
    Prepared client workstation (only vista in there), captured it using capture image and deployed through WDS - the same 23-25 minutes, the same installation screens.

    Are you saying that if I'll image client with ImageX and if I try to deploy this image with imagex through WDS - will I will see the same long installation procedure because WDS always uses setup for this task????

    We relied on the ghost in the past solely because fast image deployment. We liked the idea that ghost only deploys image and thats all, no installations after that, only sysprep is run. I think that and imagex behaves in same way when it is started from the cmd. And I expexted the same thing and from WDS. But it seems that it is dead end at least with this version:(

    As for the test in your lab. Can you see vista installation screens after WDS deploys image? Can you see computer experience calculation?
     
  • Tuesday, February 24, 2009 1:53 PMJohan ArwidmarkMVPUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
     
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    I'm saying that WDS always run setup to deploy any image you might have in WDS, inlcuding a prepared Vista client that you added.

    And its for a good reason... for example running the performance test helps Vista tune performance for that hardware... it can really make a big difference...

    You cannot use ImageX and WDS together... If you want to use ImageX to deploy your image, you need to export the wim image from WDS, store it on another file share, create a custom WinPE image, have it connect to the file share and then apply the image using imagex.
     
  • Thursday, February 26, 2009 7:29 AMRimvydas Users MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
     
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    Johan, please clarify one thing for me then:)

    You are saying that it is good reason for WDS to run setup. Are you saying that simple image deployment with imagex + sysprep after that is not enough? I tried manual image deployment to different clients using imagex+sysprep and all are working without any problems in much more shorter time frame then the same image deployment through WDS to the same clients. Then why does WDS run setup process if we talk about imaging? What exact magic things are done during this setup process? I can see only downside - valuable time. And you can clearly see this on clients which are not so fast. As I said - image deployment through WDS takes the same ammount of time as normal installation from DVD. Because of that I call image deployment through WDS as simple unattended installation.

    Please explain - why is it not enogh for wds to deploy image and run only sysprep and not the whole setup after that as we can do this with imagex manualy?

    From all of this I can assume that there must be two options in WDS - one with setup process and another with simple image deployment. Because if I have fully prepared image I don't need any setups and settings changes.

     
  • Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:24 AMTim Quan - MSFTMSFT, ModeratorUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Deployment_Services

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa967394.aspx

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc265604.aspx

     

    Note that WDS can be used to set up new computers through a network-based installation without the IT professional having to be physically present at each computer and without having to install directly from CD or DVD media. WDS is intended to be used for remotely deploying systems.

     

    In a large company with hundreds of computers in different places, it is impossible for IT professional to install the system on every computer using the disk.

     

    Tim Quan - MSFT

     
  • Friday, February 27, 2009 8:10 AMRimvydas Users MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
     
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    Tim,

    I know WDS purpose very well:) I'm only saying that it would be very nice to have an option to be able only stupidly deploy fully prepared syspreped image through WDS and run only sysprep after that and not the whole Vista setup. WDS could have two options - one for unattended installs as it has now and the other for simple prepared images deployments. I think this option could save valuable time for those who don't need this whole setup thing. As I can remember RIS had such thing (riprep images). As for now, when sysprep can remove all HAL dependencies such an option would be very welcomed at least for us.

    Image deployment through setup is very good thing when we need to do what you just said earlier, when we need to tweak various parts of the system, but there may be times when we need simply, quickly and  stupidly deploy fully configured syspreped image and thats all, no setup things. And as I can see we can't do such thing with WDS:(

    I can think only one way - boot from boot image with imagex installed and deploy image manualy. But as I said it would be very nice to be able to choose between these two options.

     
  • Friday, February 27, 2009 10:05 AMTim Quan - MSFTMSFT, ModeratorUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
     
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    OK.

     

    We always welcome customer feedback and thank you for providing us with your comments. If you have any concerns regarding Microsoft products, please contact our customer service. We strive to capture any and all product issues/feedback so as to ensure we are continuously developing Microsoft products to meet customer needs. You are also welcome to add your comments to make Microsoft products easier and more powerful to use.

     

    To submit additional product feedback, we recommend that you visit http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/execmail/feedback.mspx

     

    Thanks.

     

    Tim Quan - MSFT

     

     
  • Friday, February 27, 2009 12:06 PMRimvydas Users MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
     
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    So in other words as for now it is not possible to achieve what I want to achieve?:)
     
  • Friday, February 27, 2009 12:47 PMJohan ArwidmarkMVPUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
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    Not unless you skip using WDS, and instead use imagex and Windows PE...

    Well, the setup also helps with servicing, BCD manipulation, progress reporting and it solves the D:\WINDOWS problem with the default Vista image... MDT 2010 "may" add support for imagex /apply but nothing final yet...

    If you want a really good, free, deployment solution using Microsoft standard tools you should use WDS + MDT, it will take care of imaging, drivers, applications, updates etc...

    Take a look at this webcast by Richard Smith (click View Webcast), its about 30 minytes, and it s well worth the time

    http://deploymentforum.com/Library/Webcasts/tabid/202/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/17/Using-MDT-2008-for-LTI.aspx

     
  • Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:44 PMJonathan440 Users MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers MedalsUsers Medals
     
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    I wouldn't advise it, but there is no reason you couldn't create an image, capture the wim format with PE, and add that image as on OS to deploy. You won't really gain that much though.