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Win7 - Clean Install Using "Upgrade" Version ?
Win7 - Clean Install Using "Upgrade" Version ?
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- Hi. With XP and prior, a user could purchase the "upgrade" version of the operating system and still perform a clean install by validating that he was entitled to use the upgrade during the early part of the install by providing the prior-version CD for a few moments to prove that he was entitled to use the upgrade version of the new software.
With Vista, I was told that a user could not perform a clean install with the "upgrade" version of Vista, that it could only upgrade an actually-installed prior version.
Q: Was that true about Vista, and will it be true of Windows7 ?
Thanks/jim- Changed TypeRobinson ZhangMSFT, ModeratorFriday, June 26, 2009 9:25 AM
All Replies
- Yes, that is true with Vista. I doubt we'll find out with Windows 7 until upgrade SKUs are available.
Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience - Hi. It would be nice to get a definitive answer on this asap.
We have all been invited by MS TechNet to begin placing pre-orders for the product via store.microsoft.com effective today, so clearly this information is important now.
Perhaps you or another MS person can actually get the answer for me/us promptly.
Thanks/jim- Edited byLagunaJim Friday, June 26, 2009 3:56 AM
- The upgrade version provides a discounted price to owners of previous versions of Windows. Windows Vista allows you to either upgrade your XP installation or do a clean install. With Windows 7 you cannot upgrade your existing XP installation with either the Full or Upgrade version, you must do a clean install followed by a reinstall of all you applications and recovery of all user data.
- Hi Richmny, as Kerry_Brown confirmed for me, your information doesn't appear to be quite right. XP and prior would allow you to do a clean install with an upgrade disk, but effective with Vista you could not, forcing one to buy the full version despite owning every prior version going back to .... well.... I'm old ok.
Thus my question about whether those of us who wish to do clean installs but clearly own many previous versions, can get away with buying only the upgrade version as we did for so many years pre-Vista.
It appears that you are correct that only Vista users will be able to do a "non-clean" upgrade to Win7, which sort of makes my question all the more "logical and pertinent"... If owning XP qualifies one legally to use the upgrade version of Win7, therefore it would follow that one must be able to perform a clean install with said upgrade version since one cannot, technologically, upgrade directly from an existing XP installation to Win7.
Does my line of reasoning make sense to anyone else that actually knows the details of how this is going to work (MS staff) ?
Best/jim- Edited byLagunaJim Friday, June 26, 2009 3:58 AM
- From my reading, you are allowed to do a clean install, but NOT on a new virgin drive ( a new SSD for example)
One must do a clean install onto the same partition that has a xp version running. The xp version is then wiped out and the win7 installs in its place.
Stupid system IMHO. - Same goes for Vista. Unlike with XP, you aren't forced to use a clean install if your previous Vista version allows an upgrade (Home -> Home, Home -> Premium, but not Premium -> Home). But you're allowed to do it. BTW, what's so stupid in this system? It only ensures you have a previous system installed that is legally "upgradable".
Mobile AMD64 3000+, VIA Apollo K8T800 chipset, 1 G RAM, ATIRadeonMobility 9700, 20x DVDRW, C:XPSP3 (55G),D:WIN7 (25G),F:DATA (250G) - Everybody -
Er.. Actually... There IS a way to do a clean install using an upgrade disk... It's not exactly a secret - Google (or Bing) is your friend... I'm not entirely sure how appropriate it is to post such things - needless to say, there IS a method to doing just that. - I think the confusion in this thread is the difference between the full and upgrade versions in terms of retail pricing and whether you can upgrade your existing windows installation in place with either disc. With the upgrade version of Windows 7, previous Windows XP users get a discounted price, however they still must perform a clean install of Windows 7, which will entail backing up your computer, reinstalling all your software applications and restoring your data.
The reason there is an issue with this now is that so many people have skipped upgrading from XP to Vista, waiting for Windows 7 to become available. However Microsoft is just not investing it's resources to provide an upgrade path directly from XP to 7, skipping over Vista. In other words, you can't just insert the disc in your computer and have it uprade your installation to 7 from XP. This is true whether you use the Full or Upgrade disc.
I'm one of those XP holdouts who refused to buy Vista and waited for Windows 7. I just pre-ordered the Windows 7 Professional Upgrade version from Amazon for myself. When I receive it I will be required to do a clean install as I did with my testing of the Beta and RC versions.
As a previous XP user you are entitled to purchase Windows 7 at the discounted or upgrade price, this is the version you should purchase.
Read "I am running Windows XP, can I upgrade to Windows 7?" under the Windows 7 Pre-Order Offer FAQs - Richmny
There is no upgrade path from XP to 7. Not supported.
What is supported is being able to clean install Win 7 with some sort of proof of license ownership
of XP with the 'upgrade disk'.
The confusion is that today no one knows exactly how this validation will work. MS has stated
that the setup files in the Win 7 disk must see an operating version of xp on a partition before
win 7 installation continues. I interpret that as frustrating for users that want to install on to a brand new empty drive
( Example a nice new SSD drive ) . Won't work. User will have to install XP first then install Win7 from inside a booted xp.
No one yet knows for sure if a legal work around to install on to an empty drive is available.
I do not believe we will find this out until we see RTM.- Edited byNosmo King Saturday, June 27, 2009 3:59 PMTypo
- Nosmo King, I agree there is no upgrade path from XP to 7, that is what I stated in my post.
However, I don't understand why people are thinking that MS will change the validation process with Windows 7 and not accept the previous version's disc as proof of ownership. I have done numerous clean installs of both the OS and Office products with upgrade discs and have been prompted for a qualifying disc when the product is not present on my hard drive.
Users are going to have legitimate reasons to install Windows 7 using the upgrade disc again, as with a hard drive replacement. I don't think MS would expect you to install XP first, followed by a clean install of 7 just because you have the upgrade versus the full version disc.
As I said in my post, I am currently running the Windows 7 RC and have pre-ordered the Windows 7 Professional upgrade. I don't expect to have to install XP again before I can install the final version of Windows 7 just to prove I own a qualifying product.
Money talks, I'm betting my $99 that I am right!
:) - Good luck with that, sir.
Question for you: have you ever done it with a VISTA upgrade disk and a blank hard drive??
Several people have confirmed that it is not possible to perform a clean install on a blank hard drive with the upgrade version, merely inserting the previous version's disk at some point during the install process.
Yes, absolutely, that is how it worked for XP and before, and also for all versions of MS Office that I am aware of.
BUT, and it's a big BUT, starting with Vista and apparently continuing with Win7, it is no longer the case that you can have a blank hard drive, use the upgrade disk, and complete the installation.
I wish it were so, but multiple sources are telling us it is not so. Annoying that it is not so, but it is what it is.
Best/jim Just wondering what MS's rationale for making this change would be. I don't think it's an anti-piracy effort, as each Windows installation needs to be activated anyway. However, it may be a means to thwart users from installing the upgrade version, when they're not entitled to it, by providing a copy of a qualifying product disc during the install, thereby saving the expense of the full version.
It seems the legitimate users are paying the price in both dollars and inconvenience due to piracy and license abuse. If MS would more reasonably price their software, there would be considerably less piracy, they would probably make it up in volume as the money would be flowing to them instead of the pirates.
If I'm the first to get my copy of Windows 7 when it ships on 10/22, you'll be the first to know how the install of the upgrade version goes.
Until then, let's all enjoy summer!Good luck with that, sir.
Question for you: have you ever done it with a VISTA upgrade disk and a blank hard drive??
Several people have confirmed that it is not possible to perform a clean install on a blank hard drive with the upgrade version, merely inserting the previous version's disk at some point during the install process.
Yes, absolutely, that is how it worked for XP and before, and also for all versions of MS Office that I am aware of.
BUT, and it's a big BUT, starting with Vista and apparently continuing with Win7, it is no longer the case that you can have a blank hard drive, use the upgrade disk, and complete the installation.
I wish it were so, but multiple sources are telling us it is not so. Annoying that it is not so, but it is what it is.
Best/jim
Jim -
Yes. I have. And yes, actually, it IS possible to do it. Google for it - the answer IS out there, and it works rather well. Once you've read the answer, you'd understand my reluctance to posting the information.- hi. yes, i know what you are talking about - and i would call that a workaround at best. installing it and then installing it again on top of itself is certainly not a "clean install"! personally, I would rather install XP, and then have the Vista/Win7 reformat the drive during it's installation -- now that's a clean install. /j
egads -
Actually... Vista Home Premium 64 bit does exist. I came across a copy on a client's brand spankin' new computer about a year ago. She was having some problems getting Quicken to print checks, invoices, etc.. on her HP printer. For some reason, the print job would just vanish into thin air. She could print to a PDF with their built in PDF driver and she could print the PDF just fine. In fact, she could print everything else - except from Quicken.
Anyway - Vista 64 HP was on the box - she picked it up at Best Buy.- egads -
More likely, they want to clear out inventory... Probably the same reason why Apple dropped the price of the last generation of their iPhone to $99 bucks when they announced their new one. It's a normal kind of thing. Old inventory gets marked down to make way for the new one. Good luck with that, sir.
Question for you: have you ever done it with a VISTA upgrade disk and a blank hard drive??
Several people have confirmed that it is not possible to perform a clean install on a blank hard drive with the upgrade version, merely inserting the previous version's disk at some point during the install process.
Yes, absolutely, that is how it worked for XP and before, and also for all versions of MS Office that I am aware of.
BUT, and it's a big BUT, starting with Vista and apparently continuing with Win7, it is no longer the case that you can have a blank hard drive, use the upgrade disk, and complete the installation.
I wish it were so, but multiple sources are telling us it is not so. Annoying that it is not so, but it is what it is.
Best/jim
I've found conflicting information regarding this on the Microsoft site. This is what I found on Microsoft's Windows 7 site, regarding using the upgrade disk on a virgin hard drive (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/Installing-Windows-frequently-asked-questions):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Should I upgrade or perform a custom installation?If your current version of Windows can be upgraded, choose Upgrade to keep your files, settings, and programs from that version. This is the simplest option. If your version of Windows can't be upgraded, you need to choose Custom.
Choose Custom to completely replace your current operating system, or to install Windows on a specific drive or partition that you select. You can also use Custom if your computer does not have an operating system, or if you want to set up a multiboot system on your computer. For more information about setting up a multiboot system, see Install more than one operating system (multiboot).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been researching this quite a bit, but like everyone else is experiencing, there's no concrete answer from Microsoft. Even the above copy/paste from Microsoft is questionable.
Here's the situation I'm in:
1) I built Computer #1 two years ago and purchased/installed a full version of Vista Ultimate
2) For Windows 7, I'm going to build Computer #2, with a virgin, no operating system hard drive - and install Win 7 on it.
Question: Will the Win 7 Upgrade clean install on Computer #2, if I use my Vista Full Version serial number as the proof of ownership? I do not want to install Vista on Computer #2, but only install Win 7. From the above copy/paste I did, Microsoft seems to be saying that you can install Win 7 Upgrade on a virgin hard drive.
We really need more clarification on this coming from Microsoft, so that we can all make the correct purchase. At the moment, I don't know if I can use the Win 7 Upgrade or if I have to use the Win 7 Full Retail version.- Well.... we've got like 20 comments now on this thread, and as the previous poster very succinctly put it, we have learned nothing definitive.
"JESNELL" perfectly points out the confusion and lack of clear answer.
/jim 1) I built Computer #1 two years ago and purchased/installed a full version of Vista Ultimate
2) For Windows 7, I'm going to build Computer #2, with a virgin, no operating system hard drive - and install Win 7 on it.
Do you plan on using computer #1 with Vista as well as computer #2 with Windows 7? If you do you are not eligible for an upgrade with computer #2. When you install an upgrade version of Windows the license becomes combined with the license of the OS you are upgrading. This means you can't use the original license on another computer.
Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Desktop ExperienceWell.... we've got like 20 comments now on this thread, and as the previous poster very succinctly put it, we have learned nothing definitive.
"JESNELL" perfectly points out the confusion and lack of clear answer.
/jim
All we can go on at this point is assuming upgrades will work in a similar fashion to Vista. We won't know for sure until upgrade keys and disks are available for testing. At this point I would assume that you would need an eligible OS installed in order to perform a supported upgrade with an upgrade key and disk.
Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience- Kerry,
Computer #1 would go into retirement and not be used anymore, unless Computer #2 suffered a failure. Then I would bring Computer #1 back into service to troubleshoot Computer #2's issue until she was repaired.
I've pretty much driven Computer #1 into the ground, running her 24/7 for software and web development work. By the time Win 7 arrives, Computer #1 will be nearing 3 years of continuous operation, so building a new rig when Win 7 arrives will be a good move in terms of averting hardware failures that will eventually occur.
To address your point of the legality of the licenses, yes I understand that running both a Vista machine and another machine on a Win 7 upgrade would be a violation. But since I'm retiring Computer #1 with Vista, would the Win 7 Upgrade be applicable to Computer #2? That is the question that I and others have, who are building new rigs for Win 7. And as we've seen all over different forums, the answer is conflicted, with even Microsoft adding to the confusion (in my first post) and not being clear about all this.
I think Microsoft, in trying to dummy down all the technical and complete info WE want, went a bit too far to simplify for the masses the upgrade options and specifications for the different versions of Win 7. For example, on the Win 7 product page, the comparison matrix is way to simplified and doesn't even mention what versions of Win 7 include IIS 7. I also would like to see a more comprehensive matrix describing the differences between Win 7 Pro and Ultimate. I just can't believe that Bitlocker and the Language Packs are the only differences. - As long as the version of Vista on computer #1 is not OEM which can't be moved to a different computer you should be eligible for an upgrade. How you would install the upgrade on computer #2 is not known at this point or at least Microsoft hasn't made it public yet. If it works the same as Vista the upgrade won't install unless there is an OS already installed on computer #2. To be fully supported and avoid any possible future WGA problems you would have to install Vista first then Windows 7.
One of the complaints many people had with Vista was that Vista Business had less features than Vista Home Premium. With Windows 7 Microsoft decided that as the versions increased in price the features were additive. That means that each version includes all the features of lesser versions and adds new features. There is a more detailed comparison chart here but it's not an official chart.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions#Comparison_chart
Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
...is not OEM which can't be moved to a different computer...
Kerry, can you tell me how I might (re)view the Vista EULA on my HP notebook? I will frankly be fuming to confirm that conventional wisdom, which is not made apparent in any sales material I've ever examined. Yes, I'd like to know just how many or which components I may replace from this notebook I own before it's not my notebook anymore. This is all the more reason to distrust any big brand name in this industry. Thanks.
You can find your EULA here
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx
AFAIK it's been this way since the days of MS-DOS. OEM Microsoft OS software is licensed for use on the device it came with. It cannot be moved to new hardware. Retail software can be moved to a different computer. That is one of the reasons why retail versions of Windows are so expensive. An upgrade license is additive to the license it is used to upgrade. The terms of the original EULA are still in effect.
Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience- I posted in another thread about the same issue and directed here, however this post is just as useless as the others. Why doesn't Microsoft comment on this issue? I own XP, I want Windows 7. I don't want to go through some Mickey Mouse installation process.
If you put the W7 disc in from within XP, it will reboot, format and do a clean install - I GET IT.
What happens when I replace the hard drive? What's the process now? Do I have to install XP, then W7? What a joke...
The most important question here is: HOW DOES THE WINOWS 7 INSTALLATION CONFIRM THAT YOU OWN XP??? Does it prompt for a license code? Does XP already have to be installed? Does it prompt for a disc?
How hard is this for Microsoft to answer? I reformat and reinstall every few months and I don't want to go through some ridiculous installation process. $50 or $100 is looking decent right now, but if your upgrade process is stupid, I'll pass on the upgrade, as well as the full edition, and just stick with XP for awhile. - Jason -
The Windows 6.x (Vista and Windows 7) installer does NOT check for past product keys nor does it prompt for media.
You need to run the SETUP program from within that previous OS. It checks to see if it's been properly installed, activated and validated. The installer then drops a flag on the drive and reboots the computer. Once you reboot - from the DVD this time around - it looks for that flag and then gives you access to the upgrade process from within the installer.
That said, it really doesn't matter WHAT operating system you're running it from - it can be pretty much ANY version of Windows - XP, Vista, Win 2000, or even Win 7. (that's what's known as an "In-Place Upgrade" or a "repair install" is about. It leaves your data and apps alone and restores Win 7 to it's default state.) That said, there isn't likely a need to do a full nuke and pave unless something goes seriously wrong - like a hard drive dies or something. - Jason Barone hit the nail on the head when he said ,Quote: "HOW DOES THE WINOWS 7 INSTALLATION CONFIRM THAT YOU OWN XP??? Does it prompt for a license code? Does XP already have to be installed? Does it prompt for a disc?"
After phone calls to the MS store, not by me but others, they are being told that you can do a clean install onto a brand new already formatted drive.
But these same MS staff do NOT know , or are not saying,how it will validate. Kerry, I have studied this further and am convinced it is ok to transfer an OEM Vista copy to a different machine.
Among other things I am a Microsoft OEM partner.I have sat through many OEM partner presentations on licensing. Microsoft is often inconsistent in what they say about licensing. They have never been inconsistent on this point. They always tell us that OEM software is permanently tied to the first computer it is installed on. It can't be moved to a different computer. I totally understand that you may think differently and even that a court of law may think differently. I am telling you what I have been told many, many times by Microsoft.
Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience- On the main Windows 7 order page on Microsoft (http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Windows-Windows-7/category/102) it says the following:
- Running Windows Vista?
- If you have Windows Vista , you can purchase Windows 7 Upgrade versions. You can do a clean install (back up your files, clean install, and reinstall your applications) or an in-place upgrade (Windows 7 installs over Windows Vista).
Now, I am very happy it says that. However, exactly how is that possible?
What if I first want to re-format my hard drive? Does that mean I still need to install Windows Vista, then put the Windows 7 Upgrade CD in so it can recognize that I have a legit Vista version, and then let it do the "clean install" by itself, erasing the Vista data and writing over it rather than upgrading it?
Is there no legit way to put Windows 7 Upgrade CD in and install the entire OS from scratch on a reformatted hard drive?
Thanks for the help everyone! - Anyone? (See above...)
- Then you need to purchase a "full license" edition of Windows 7. All the Windows Vista upgrade editions require that you have a qualifying Windows operating system installed before you can install the Windows 7 Upgrade. For example, if you had to replace a faulty hard drive and have the Windows 7 Upgrade version, you must install Windows XP or Vista first, then install the upgrade version of Windows 7. With a "full version" license, you would simply boot from the Windows 7 DVD, enter your Windows 7 full license product key and install.
Carey Frisch - As some one who has repaired MANY computers and needed to contact MS for new codes, I can tell you OEM is per box and if you replace some parts you must call MS for new codes.
Retail can change PC's and even change owners (with full packing included)
And the process is not that bad (well as I have my Xp boxes going on 6 ~ 7 years on the first and only install of XP pro
and I will use the purchased win7 upgrades to upgrade them.
Windows is cheap if you think not you should step back and look at what else is out there (
MAC 158.00 for a just about worthless OS in the real world.
Linux.. Free.. great for web surfing and a little lite work. or maybe running a Asterisk PBX / Qmail server....but for any REAL company network working...well you get the picture.
ROI On the main Windows 7 order page on Microsoft (http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Windows-Windows-7/category/102) it says the following:
- Running Windows Vista?
- If you have Windows Vista , you can purchase Windows 7 Upgrade versions. You can do a clean install (back up your files, clean install, and reinstall your applications) or an in-place upgrade (Windows 7 installs over Windows Vista).
Now, I am very happy it says that. However, exactly how is that possible?
What if I first want to re-format my hard drive? Does that mean I still need to install Windows Vista, then put the Windows 7 Upgrade CD in so it can recognize that I have a legit Vista version, and then let it do the "clean install" by itself, erasing the Vista data and writing over it rather than upgrading it?
Is there no legit way to put Windows 7 Upgrade CD in and install the entire OS from scratch on a reformatted hard drive?
Thanks for the help everyone!
So your answer to the question above is basically...
"If you reformat your hard drive, you will have to install Vista first again and then choose 'clean install' when putting in the Windows 7 CD."Then you need to purchase a "full license" edition of Windows 7. All the Windows Vista upgrade editions require that you have a qualifying Windows operating system installed before you can install the Windows 7 Upgrade. For example, if you had to replace a faulty hard drive and have the Windows 7 Upgrade version, you must install Windows XP or Vista first, then install the upgrade version of Windows 7. With a "full version" license, you would simply boot from the Windows 7 DVD, enter your Windows 7 full license product key and install.
Carey Frisch
Does the XP need to be installed only when installing the Win7 upgrade the first time, or does it need to be installed every time Win7 is installed?
I can understand needing XP or whatever the first time to prove to Microsoft you are entitled to the upgrade. But if XP has to be installed each time you re-install Win7, that would be bizarre and very impractical.
I have the full retail license for XP. I'm hoping the first time the Win7 upgrade is activated, the Win7 license becomes a full retail license, and the XP license becomes invalid. Under those terms, the upgrade could be a good deal. If XP needs to be present each time my Win7 is installed, that begs a whole lot of questions.- Although I have not seen this directly, if it is like previous versions of Windows, I would expect you to be able to install Windows 7 directly to the hardware, simply being required to insert the valid CD for the version of Windows that you are upgrading from during the first stages of the install process.
Then you need to purchase a "full license" edition of Windows 7. All the Windows Vista upgrade editions require that you have a qualifying Windows operating system installed before you can install the Windows 7 Upgrade. For example, if you had to replace a faulty hard drive and have the Windows 7 Upgrade version, you must install Windows XP or Vista first, then install the upgrade version of Windows 7. With a "full version" license, you would simply boot from the Windows 7 DVD, enter your Windows 7 full license product key and install.
Carey Frisch
Does the XP need to be installed only when installing the Win7 upgrade the first time, or does it need to be installed every time Win7 is installed?
I can understand needing XP or whatever the first time to prove to Microsoft you are entitled to the upgrade. But if XP has to be installed each time you re-install Win7, that would be bizarre and very impractical.
I have the full retail license for XP. I'm hoping the first time the Win7 upgrade is activated, the Win7 license becomes a full retail license, and the XP license becomes invalid. Under those terms, the upgrade could be a good deal. If XP needs to be present each time my Win7 is installed, that begs a whole lot of questions.
Andrew Macaulay - Andrew -
Vista and Windows 7's installer do NOT feature a media check feature like past versions. They validate an existing installation. - Clue.
All the different versions are contained on the master RTM disk and nearly all vista disks are identical for example a store bought vista home premium disk is identical to a store bought ultimate upgrade disk.
Another clue is you can but it takes twice as long.
I can also rip off that tag that came with my posturpedic matress. - Hey Andrew, that's the answer I was looking for. Thanks.
My question to you though is: is that theory? or is that from Microsoft?
Because for me, that's a deal breaker. I upgrade hard drives and/or reformat every once in awhile, and to think that I'll have to use XPs long installation, as well as W7s on top of that, is ridiculous. That's more than inconvenient. - I will very likely just bite the bullet and buy the full version, as I did with Vista, rather than screwing around.
It ain't that much of a price difference after all.....
/jim (the guy that started this thread..) - Still no OFFICIAL word on HOW will it validates xp OWNERSHIP. I don't want an hassle to authenticate. I want to input my xp key after i installed 7 and then maybe tie my 7 key to it.
One code for both idk.
WTB OFFICIAL announcement on the authentification process from Microsoft please. - Eldgrim -
<sigh> It's the same way the installer validates XP for Vista upgrades.
You insert the DVD into the drive while XP is running. The spash screen pops up. You click the button marked Install Now.
The installer checks to see what's installed. It sees XP. It checks to see if XP is valid. It sees it's passed WGA. It flags the hard drive as being valid for upgrade.
The machine reboots. The drive gets wiped. Windows 7 gets installed.
Ok.. I'll admit it - I don't work for Microsoft, and such but for Pete's sake - is it that hard to figure out? The installers are almost identical save the background wallpaper and they swapped "Windows 7" for "Vista" in the appropriate places. Did everyone here skip Vista or something?
In fact, there's NO difference between the upgrade disk's installer and the full product's installer. The only thing that makes an Upgrade DVD an upgrade as opposed to a FULL install - is the product key supplied with the package. That and the words printed on the label. Another bit of trivia - the DVD you get with a Windows 7 Starter is identical to the DVD you get with Windows 7 Ultimate - and every version in between. The only difference - once again - is the product key and the wording on the label. - That's how Vista does it alright. Nothing official if 7 will use the same method.
Altho i'm pretty sure it will be like you described wolfie. And that sucks, because if i install linux and want to install 7 back i'll need to install xp FIRST. Major pain in the *&?&8!@. Eldgrim -
Yah.. That's one way to go about it.. OR.. you could set up a 2nd hard drive and install Linux on it - and leave the existing Win 7 installation alone. Set it up as a multi-boot system.. Drives are cheap these days...That's how Vista does it alright. Nothing official if 7 will use the same method.
That was fast steves question if after the first time the upgade is completed the upgrade key provided is stored in a data base at Redmond and can now be used to install without the old version present. I'm almost certain that information will be on record or upgrades would not feasible.
Altho i'm pretty sure it will be like you described wolfie. And that sucks, because if i install linux and want to install 7 back i'll need to install xp FIRST. Major pain in the *&?&8!@.I'm not sure what you mean.
After the initial upgrade and activation the activation info is on recored. The infomation that a successfull upgrade was performed and the upgrade key will be valed for subsequent clean installs.Dee, remember what happened the last time "why is the U.K.being Penalized?"
You made fun of my 3rd grade education and we both got in trouble.
But I know just you mean. The offline activation slmgr -rearm method you posted here, #1 it's illicet # 2 skiprearm doesn't work that's only a rumer. I can affored a windows disk but for you, it's the pirate bay or btjunkie.The installer checks to see what's installed. It sees XP. It checks to see if XP is valid. It sees it's passed WGA. It flags the hard drive as being valid for upgrade.
Okay, I guess that makes as much sense as anything else. So I think I can make a few assumptions:
My XP license will remain valid after the upgrade. Otherwise I couldn't re-install Win7.
An upgrade from OEM XP would give me an OEM Win7 license. As OEM XP can't be moved to another computer, the Win7 couldn't be moved either. I guess there is not much cost saving by upgrading from OEM XP versus simply buying OEM Win7.
Upgrading retail XP would basically give me a retail Win7. I would be able to move it to another computer in the future. I would just have to move XP first.
Does anyone disagree?
I hope that means the partition where XP is installed gets wiped. If it wipes my data partitions, that would ruin my whole day.
The machine reboots. The drive gets wiped. Windows 7 gets installed."My XP license will remain valid after the upgrade." No. If you want to maintain your XP license valid, you must buy a full version of Windows 7, not an upgrade version. "Otherwise I couldn't re-install Win7." No. After an upgrade, you are a licensed user of Windows 7, have a valid product key, and don't need XP anymore.
Mobile AMD64 3000+, VIA Apollo K8T800 chipset, 1 G RAM, ATIRadeonMobility 9700, 20x DVDRW, C:XPSP3 (55G),D:WIN7 (25G),F:DATA (250G)Although it is not very hard to understand the upgrade licensing system and procedure it seems to be confusing for many. The solution is to end the distribution of upgrades and charge less for clean install versions that do not kill the validity of the old os system.
Okay, but I don't understand the mechanism. The first time I install, the installer requires a valid XP running. What's different when I install a second time?"My XP license will remain valid after the upgrade." No. If you want to maintain your XP license valid, you must buy a full version of Windows 7, not an upgrade version. "Otherwise I couldn't re-install Win7." No. After an upgrade, you are a licensed user of Windows 7, have a valid product key, and don't need XP anymore.
I'm guessing when I activate the first time, I will be given a new product key. On subsequent installs, this product key will indicate to the installer that I now have a retail license. Is that it?Windows licenses ar like bank accounts. You balance is asociated with your bank account number and name. Your product key is like an account number. When you install the second time Microsoft looks up your product key like a bank looks up your balance. When you activate your your product key it will have a status associated with it depending on past activities.
In this way you will always use the same key used to upgrade as you will for a clean install and there is no need to provide a new one.- Edited byDEFCON 1® Tuesday, July 07, 2009 2:22 PM
- Is there a time limit for upgrading? This upgrade price is beginning to sound like a good deal. If I understand correctly, after upgrading my retail XP, I will have a retail Win7.
I actually have 2 computers and own 2 retail XP licenses. I feel confident I can upgrade my backup computer without problems. But before I upgrade my main computer I want to be completely sure that everything I have on XP will run okay on Win7.
Although I doubt it, it could conceivably be a year before I do the upgrade on my main computer. Would my upgrade license still be valid in a year? - I don't believe there is an expiration date for upgrading however if the old system's period of support comes to an end there may be a problem.
. When you install the second time Microsoft looks up your product key like a bank looks up your balance. When you activate your your product key it will have a status associated with it depending on past activities.
In this way you will always use the same key used to upgrade as you will for a clean install and there is no need to provide a new one.
Does that mean I need to be online to do an install? That doesn't seem right to me.The answer is no you would not have to be online. You could activate afterward online or by phone and this is when the status of the product key is verified.
The answer is no you would not have to be online. You could activate afterward online or by phone and this is when the status of the product key is verified.
That's where I'm confused. Apparently the first time I install, not activate but install, I need to be running a previous OS. I'm told subsequent installs do not require the previous OS. If I'm not online when installing, how does the install DVD know the difference?- The reason for this the DVD examines your disk when you run setup inside a windows old version and if it can be upgraded will give you a choice: custom or upgrade. The DVD won't know what type of license you have so it's up to you to decide acordingly, if you have an upgrade license select upgrade.
The reason for this the DVD examines your disk when you run setup inside a windows old version and if it can be upgraded will give you a choice: custom or upgrade. The DVD won't know what type of license you have so it's up to you to decide acordingly, if you have an upgrade license select upgrade.
So it appears that the upgrade install DVD can always be installed regardless of whether there is a valid OS running. I assume if you never went through the upgrade procedure, then a fresh install can't be activated. Am I right?As far as I know the status of your key is on file so you only need to perform the upgrade procedure once and technically you could do it again but i 'm not sure why anyone would.
- How many times does this have to be repeated?
With Vista you can only use an ugrade key if there is a qualifying OS already installed on the computer. There are no exceptions. Yes, there is a workaround where you can install Vista from the installation media twice, the first time without a key. This is not an officially supported scenario. It does sort of follow the rules in that you are installing from a qualified OS.
I'll say this again. With Vista you can only use an upgrade key if there is a qualified OS already on the computer. - period, that's it.
It doesn't matter how many times you install the upgrade. It won't install unless there is a previously installed qualified OS. If your hard drive crashes you'll need to install a qualifying OS on the new hard drive before you can use the Vista upgrade key to upgrade.
We'll know how Windows 7 works when it's released and we can test it. For now I'd assume it's the same.
Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience - Kerry, can you please direct me to the source of your information becouse if it this were true every time my system crashes I would have to install both the old and the new for it to pass activation and that the product key that comes with the upgrade disk would not be increased permanantly to a full license? I find this very hard to believe.
- Edited byDEFCON 1® Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:12 PM
The installer checks to see what's installed. It sees XP. It checks to see if XP is valid. It sees it's passed WGA. It flags the hard drive as being valid for upgrade.
Okay, I guess that makes as much sense as anything else. So I think I can make a few assumptions:
My XP license will remain valid after the upgrade. Otherwise I couldn't re-install Win7.
An upgrade from OEM XP would give me an OEM Win7 license. As OEM XP can't be moved to another computer, the Win7 couldn't be moved either. I guess there is not much cost saving by upgrading from OEM XP versus simply buying OEM Win7.
Upgrading retail XP would basically give me a retail Win7. I would be able to move it to another computer in the future. I would just have to move XP first.
Does anyone disagree?
I hope that means the partition where XP is installed gets wiped. If it wipes my data partitions, that would ruin my whole day.
The machine reboots. The drive gets wiped. Windows 7 gets installed.
Steve -
BINGO! Give the man a cigar... Yes, Your Windows XP license would remain intact for the EXACT reason you mentioned. If you couldn't reinstall it to have a platform for reinstalling Windows 7, then that would really suck and would cause a lot of issues for Microsoft in the form of a LOT of unnecessary phone calls to their support center.
However... No.. If you install a RETAIL license over an OEM license, it's still a RETAIL license. XP is XP, Win 7 is Win 7 - two very differnent critters - two differnt licenses. You'd still wind up with a RETAIL license. Remember, the XP license and the rest of XP got wiped out during the installation.
And yes, it only means the partition where Windows is to be installed. Having Windows blow out all your drives would be a VERY, VERY bad thing for so many reasons...
Okay, but I don't understand the mechanism. The first time I install, the installer requires a valid XP running. What's different when I install a second time?"My XP license will remain valid after the upgrade." No. If you want to maintain your XP license valid, you must buy a full version of Windows 7, not an upgrade version. "Otherwise I couldn't re-install Win7." No. After an upgrade, you are a licensed user of Windows 7, have a valid product key, and don't need XP anymore.
I'm guessing when I activate the first time, I will be given a new product key. On subsequent installs, this product key will indicate to the installer that I now have a retail license. Is that it?
Steve -
No... If for any reason, you need to reinstall, you need to have that copy of XP (or at least a really good backup of that OS) so you can reinstall/restore it in order to run the Win 7 installer.. You'd literally be back to square one.
What would be the point of issuing a 2nd key? So you could possibly pirate a copy of Windows 7..? No...
Microsoft is a very, VERY big fan of the K.I.S.S. principle - especially with Windows 7.- The nice thing about this thread is I can get any answer I want. :)
No, your XP license won't be valid after an upgrade. After the upgrade you can install without XP.
Yes, your XP license will still be valid after the upgrade. You will need a valid XP every time you install the upgrade Win7.
Well whatever. I guess the cheap upgrade is worth it, so I'll probably buy it shortly. I figure one way or the other, Microsoft will make it usable and re-installable. I'm betting I don't have to re-install XP to re-install Win7, but it's no big deal to me either way. I can do an unattended install of XP in 15 minutes. Kerry, can you please direct me to the source of your information becouse if it this were true every time my system crashes I would have to install both the old and the new for it to pass activation and that the product key that comes with the upgrade disk would not be increased permanantly to a full license? I find this very hard to believe.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=vista+upgrade+install&form=QBLH&filt=all&qs=n
With Vista yes, every time you install with an upgrade key you have to install a qualifying OS first.
Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Desktop ExperienceAfter I Binged I got several Microsoft sites explaining my options, clean or upgrade however no mention if the upgrade procedure must be performed each time I reinstall the system.
I know my key is on file in a data base and the status is valid and activated to a hardware combination and mac address with a signing hash to accompany. If I try to activate with this key a search will be done within the database and activation will be denied. If I have to do a double install after each crash then would the old key and system be denied activation if the database does not have a record of the first upgrade and activation and date along with the old key?- Bing:
DailyTech has posted a 7-step workaround courtesy of Paul Thurrott (via Microsoft internal documents) on how to perform a clean install with a Windows Vista Upgrade DVD. Per Microsoft's new licensing requirements for Vista, users are required to install a Windows Vista Upgrade from within windows xp and to make matters worse, the Windows XP license is forfeited.
The database forfits the xp license but does not give the upgade key retail status? - Hi. Can't find the Thurrott article you mentioned - what's the link? Thanks/jim jim@lagunajim.com
- http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_upgrade_clean.asp
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932
And after researching, Microsoft does state that upgrades must be performed within an upgradable system but does not specify if the product key status is increased for following installations, but does state the old key will be invalid for activation. - All microsoft tells me is my options are upgrade and clean. Whether or not oem system builders are upgradable: I don't know. I do know if you upgrade something that is upgradable example being retail full, according to the knowledge base that key of old will be invalid. One moment as I get the source of the knowledge base.
- Here Dee, this is the one that tells you how upgrading voids the original key. Read it and weap.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/932616/en-us - Actually I was unable to locate the article which documents that the old key would be voided .
- From TechARP.
Editor's Note : The Windows XP Downgrade above refers to the optional Windows XP downgrade provided by certain OEMs.
- I have done clean installs of Vista Home Premium at least 5 or 6 times and it does work. I had gotten the steps to do so in a vista forum and it does work.
I too have already purchased several copies of the Windows 7 Home Premium and am hoping I can do the same with the copies. They are coming from
Tiger Direct at the end of October.
Larry - The difference with the Vista and Win 7 installers is that the Win 7 installer ( Upgrade Media ) must see an ACTIVATED previous install.
This is a huge change and begs the question on re installation to a new blank hard drive. How will MS validate the whole process. That I believe is what we all should have known before they offered all these deals . - I think upgrades are a waste of money and don't give you the flexibility of a full licence. I can't see why you wouldn't pay only $100 more for a full licence. An upgrade invalidates your old system that you paid $300 for and yes you save $100 on an upgrade but lose $300 by relinquishing your old license. So an upgrade is like forfiting or giving away$100.00.
On the main Windows 7 order page on Microsoft (http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Windows-Windows-7/category/102) it says the following:
- Running Windows Vista?
- If you have Windows Vista , you can purchase Windows 7 Upgrade versions. You can do a clean install (back up your files, clean install, and reinstall your applications) or an in-place upgrade (Windows 7 installs over Windows Vista).
Now, I am very happy it says that. However, exactly how is that possible?
What if I first want to re-format my hard drive? Does that mean I still need to install Windows Vista, then put the Windows 7 Upgrade CD in so it can recognize that I have a legit Vista version, and then let it do the "clean install" by itself, erasing the Vista data and writing over it rather than upgrading it?
Is there no legit way to put Windows 7 Upgrade CD in and install the entire OS from scratch on a reformatted hard drive?
Thanks for the help everyone!
SilverGator -
It's simple. You've got Vista installed, activated and validated. You insert the Windows 7 upgrade media. It brings up the splash screen. You click the Install now button. It checks to see what the status of the OS is and drops a flag on the hard drive. The machine then reboots and you boot from the DVD. During this phase, it looks for and finds the flag on the hard drive. The Upgrade option is now unlocked.
At this point, you will be given options - you can do a regular upgrade from Vista, or a custom upgrade. The custom upgrade includes options to blow out the previous OS, FDISK and format. You can also do a non-destructive custom install - where the previous OS winds up being put into a folder called Windows.OLD.
So the answer to your question - you can't format the drive before you start the upgrade process - you have to run it from within a valid copy. The only caveat to this - once you start the upgrade process, you have to finish it.The difference with the Vista and Win 7 installers is that the Win 7 installer ( Upgrade Media ) must see an ACTIVATED previous install.
This is a huge change and begs the question on re installation to a new blank hard drive. How will MS validate the whole process. That I believe is what we all should have known before they offered all these deals .
Nosmo -
Not exactly... The media for Windows 7 retail and upgrade are identical - even the installer.. The difference is in the PRODUCT KEY (and the label printed on the top).
A retail key will install without restrictions while the upgrade key needs to jump through a previous OS's hoops to allow the installation process to continue.- I have done clean installs using Windows Vista Home Premium and in the early part of the installation you have the option to format the drive.
Unless they really screw around ( MS ) I am hoping to do the same with 7. all my copies of Vista are upgrades and even on them they talk about doing clean installs.
On the internet you can find the two pages of instructions for doing this task.
Larry
