none
Surface sales numbers are really poor?

    General discussion

  • I've heard rumors that the Surface RT sales numbers have been incredibly low. The 32GB model, for example, has sold less than 50,000 units online and half that in the the stores. Microsoft didn't think they'd sell - so they only manufactured a small amounts - and this is why they "sold out". The 64GB version has only sold about 100,000 units total. A friend who is an MS employee at one store (name withheld to save his job) mentioned that the return rate is very high - about 20% (1 in 5 sales come back). This would coincide with Ballmer refusing to state any sales numbers:

    http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-ballmer-not-ready-to-reveal-windows-8-surface-sales-7000006602/

    I seems that the Surface with RT is kind of a flop. Akin to the Sony Vita. Is this true - or is this info wrong and they have they actually sold a million units - making it a stunning success?

    Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:29 PM

All replies

  • I don't think we'll know till they release details, but surely if they sold out they sold more than Microsoft hoped so its a win really isn't it?
    Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:39 PM
  • I don't think we'll know till they release details, but surely if they sold out they sold more than Microsoft hoped so its a win really isn't it?

    We were told they would sell 3 million units in the first quarter by Ballmer himself - so selling only around 150,000 units total online and in the stores in the first week of launch- would indicate a really big flop. There is no way they are going to end up selling 3 million of these devices by the end of the year. That's all I'm saying. They will be lucky to even hit 500,000 at this point.

    If they were produce good sales figures - Ballmer would come out and tell us, but he's apparently hiding these numbers. That's another good indication that they have not hit their sales numbers.

    • Edited by ABCFED Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:46 PM
    Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:45 PM
  • If it sold one million already it would be the biggest success story in technology history, lets not forget that the iPhone only sold it's one millionth device 74 days after it is release. That equates to an average of 13,513 per day. It took almost two years to sell one million iPod's. Even the original iPad took 28 days. For Surface, a new brand that has never been in the market before, to hit one million in about 5 days would be an unprecedented event that even Apple has not managed in it's history. And Apple is pretty good now at getting the one million figure down.

    If your numbers are right, and 175,000 have been sold since the 26th then it is not bad, it's just not amazing. The industry would only expect big numbers over the first week from 2nd Gen models and beyond. Don't forget that Microsoft has not advertised this product like it's consumer centric rivals have theirs, before Samsung and Apple launched their iPod, iPhone and iPads... they plastered the TV world with marketing commercials. We just have to wait and see the figures from Microsoft before passing any judgement of success or failure, however even then it is a murky business because companies post "shipped" numbers as "sold" numbers.

    Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:46 PM
  • We were told they would sell 3 million units in the first quarter by Ballmer himself - so selling only around 150,000 units total online and in the stores in the first week of launch- would indicate a really big flop. There is no way they are going to end up selling 3 million of these devices by the end of the year. That's all I'm saying. They will be lucky to even hit 500,000 at this point.

    If they were produce good sales figures - Ballmer would come out and tell us, but he's apparently hiding these numbers. That's another good indication that they have not hit their sales numbers.

    But they have sold out. This is not really an indicator of how much a success it was because we do not know how many devices were shipped, for instance, if the number was 175,000 (very doubtful by the way) then it would be an average success. Let's just wait and see, nobody can pass judgement because we know nothing about the circumstances, and certainly nobody can predict anything... yet.
    • Edited by ProjectVRD Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:35 PM
    Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:00 PM
  • It will be slow start for Surface after all thouse bad reviews.

    It will be Kinect story again - slow start - World Guinness record at the end.

    Surface need time when 1 purchased surface generates many sales around him. The product is really good. And people will see how they were brainwashed by reviewers

    Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:03 PM
  • AKH is a FUD Master. He spins every article into bashing Microsoft and turning that into positive news for Apple. He thinks he could read between lines, but it eventually proves him as nothing stinky gas bag. I don't think Ballmer might have expected to sell 3 million on day one. There some stores where the sales are strong, and some don't have at all. Here in St. Louis Galleria mall the Popup store had good traffic on Friday (launch day), Saturday and Sunday. The Apple store in the upper floor didn't have traffic at all on those days. I don't say people have straightaway walked into the store and got the Surfaces, but I could say it definitely made the people to look into it. Probably we would see good sales numbers at the end of the holiday period. And if the Internet orders are any indication, it has good sales, but to my understanding only people who knew about Surface, would have ordered online.

    Rama (Currently breathing .NET)


    • Edited by Rama.NET Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:37 PM
    Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:32 PM
  • A friend who is an MS employee at one store (name withheld to save his job) mentioned that the return rate is very high - about 20% (1 in 5 sales come back).

    Why do they return them? I guess primarily because win32 doesn't run? Or it because of Metro itself?
    Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:39 PM
  • A friend who is an MS employee at one store (name withheld to save his job) mentioned that the return rate is very high - about 20% (1 in 5 sales come back).

    Why do they return them? I guess primarily because win32 doesn't run? Or it because of Metro itself?

    The main reasons they return them appear to be: a> they realize they can't be used in businesses due to domain join, GPO, and Office home/student limitations (business licensing, lack of Outlook); b> they want to be able to run desktop apps. No Steam support is a big issue.

    Everyone seems to like the hardware - they just don't like Windows RT.

    • Edited by ABCFED Tuesday, October 30, 2012 5:39 PM
    Tuesday, October 30, 2012 5:22 PM
  • Don't forget that Microsoft has not advertised this product like it's consumer centric rivals have theirs, before Samsung and Apple launched their iPod, iPhone and iPads... they plastered the TV world with marketing commercials.

    Do you even live on the same planet as the rest of us?

    Microsoft has blasted everybody with Windows 8 and Surface commercials. A week ago during the Walking dead I counted three (3!) separate Windows 8 commercials during a single commercial break.

    On Thursday they did the same thing to Big Bang Theory.

    Tuesday, October 30, 2012 5:26 PM
  • Well, that could be the reason, or they might have seen the tablets from OEMs because those may be running on Windows 8 with Intel/AMD processors for something about the same price. If we could get the sales statistics of OEMs in addition to Surface RT then we could complete the picture. I have seen something similar to this pattern. I have seen couple of guys looked at Surface RT at Microsoft Popup store in St. Louis Galleria Mall and straightaway drove to Microcenter, which is few blocks away from Popup store and bought Windows 8 Laptops. This was on Saturday.

    Rama (Currently breathing .NET)


    • Edited by Rama.NET Tuesday, October 30, 2012 5:31 PM
    Tuesday, October 30, 2012 5:30 PM
  • I bought the Surface and I love it!

    Its a true high end product that different from anything else

    I love the metro interface and it took me just minutes to get used to the interface.

    Can't wait to write Metro apps fro this thing. Yeah I am a software developer.

    Most innovated mobile computer out there and its from Microsoft which is hard

    to believe since I own everything Apple and Android. This product is a winner or I

    would not be so excited to use it. I love the size, the wide 16x10 look, the build quality

    and the many ports and the kickstand. I also love the interface as it uses gestures to

    the max(that why we have touch computers). It does take getting used to, but its easy

    and super fun to learn and use. I also loving the flash video capability in IE10 which makes

    watching youtube do much fun. Try it, its truly different. Lastly I love the keyboard touch cover,

    where you quickly get used to it and is very accurate. This is a very innovative product. Better than

    my Android and IOS and QNX Tablets due to sheer potential, smart design, quality construction, easy

    to hold(very important). Its a high quality product and deserves to be a winner. I no Microsoft fan but

    this product is super cool

    Tuesday, October 30, 2012 6:22 PM

  • Can't wait to write Metro apps fro this thing. Yeah I am a software developer.

    How exactly are you planning on writing apps for your Windows RT Surface on a Windows RT Surface device? As far as I know, Visual Studio won't load on it, so you'll need to have a second Windows 8 computer on which to code your apps. How is a Windows RT Surface device "super cool" for a developer? Also, you realize that you don't get full flash support in the Metro IE, right?

    • Edited by SAS71 Tuesday, October 30, 2012 6:44 PM
    Tuesday, October 30, 2012 6:41 PM
  • I bought a surface and have already loaded a couple apps I've written onto it. You are correct you can't put visual studio on it but you can use it for testing as well as for personal use.

    As for flash ... IMO it a good thing it doesn't come with flash. The sooner we can move away from flash the better off the web will be.

    As a side note everyone that I've shown it to has really liked it.

    Wednesday, October 31, 2012 7:52 PM
  • Don't forget that Microsoft has not advertised this product like it's consumer centric rivals have theirs, before Samsung and Apple launched their iPod, iPhone and iPads... they plastered the TV world with marketing commercials.

    Do you even live on the same planet as the rest of us?

    Microsoft has blasted everybody with Windows 8 and Surface commercials. A week ago during the Walking dead I counted three (3!) separate Windows 8 commercials during a single commercial break.

    On Thursday they did the same thing to Big Bang Theory.

    Don't know where you live, but here in the UK advertising has been very subdued, and they still sold out every single device in pre-order. Where do you think the "more than 50% of people didn't know about Windows 8" reports came from? It is because Microsoft have not gone hell for leather on advertising, I see more adverts for PPI claims, injury compensation and ofcourse, Apple products.

    So I'll stick to my guns and say nobody can comment until we actually see the figures, because if people are so quick and accurate to post their opinion then they would be rich, rich, rich off the stock exchanges. 

    • Edited by ProjectVRD Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:23 AM
    Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:19 AM
  • I bought a surface and have already loaded a couple apps I've written onto it. You are correct you can't put visual studio on it but you can use it for testing as well as for personal use.

    As for flash ... IMO it a good thing it doesn't come with flash. The sooner we can move away from flash the better off the web will be.

    As a side note everyone that I've shown it to has really liked it.

    They'll attack you for saying that. Windows 8 is not allowed to be good.
    Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:20 AM
  • I'm using Surface -> Windows 8 RT Right now...Love it.  :)~  Additionally, as a software developer having one development model to create seamlessly integrated applications that will work on Windows 8 RT | Windows 8 Pro | Windows 7 - is fantastic;

    Also, I love the metroUI - and find it easier to use that Windows 7.  I prefer the new start screen over the old way.  It is time to change and they have created what seems to be the best solution for both enterprise use and local use.  FYI: BYOD is all good at our company.  :)~

    Friday, November 02, 2012 11:49 PM
  • I'm using Surface -> Windows 8 RT Right now...Love it.  :)~  Additionally, as a software developer having one development model to create seamlessly integrated applications that will work on Windows 8 RT | Windows 8 Pro | Windows 7 - is fantastic;

    Also, I love the metroUI - and find it easier to use that Windows 7.  I prefer the new start screen over the old way.  It is time to change and they have created what seems to be the best solution for both enterprise use and local use.  FYI: BYOD is all good at our company.  :)~

    I don't get it. Why did you buy Windows RT...when you could have bought a Windows 8 machine...and done all of your development and testing on one box for less money? Loving Metro is one thing...but you can't develop apps on Windows RT...you need Windows 8 for that. So, why did you buy a $600+ machine...and then also need to purchase another $1000+ machine to get any work done? How on earth are you able to get applications "seamlessly integrated" that work on Windows 7 to work on your Windows RT device. How is Windows RT the "best solution" for enterprises when it can't even join a domain, deploy policies, run Outlook, or utilize most VPN connections?
    • Edited by SAS71 Saturday, November 03, 2012 4:54 AM
    Saturday, November 03, 2012 4:53 AM
  • No Steam support as a "big issue?"  That sounds more like a personal opinion than anything backed up with data or realistic.  There's around 55 million Steam accounts and 2-5 million concurrent Steam users.  I'm having a hard time seeing lack of Steam support factoring into a tablet purchase decision given that neither Android nor iOS tablets allow you to play Steam games.

    Frankly, it sounds like you're trying to pass off your own opinion as being representative of reality without any data to support your claims.

    Saturday, November 03, 2012 4:56 AM
  • Steam works flawlessly on desktop, only the doomsayers are stupid enough to think Valve wont get it working on RT.
    Saturday, November 03, 2012 9:32 AM
  • Steam works flawlessly on desktop, only the doomsayers are stupid enough to think Valve wont get it working on RT.
    I doubt very much that Steam will be ported to RT. First of all, Gabe doesn't want to pay Microsoft 30%...and Microsoft doesn't want a MS Store competitor to bypass their sales. Second, the current x86 games wouldn't run on ARM anyway.
    Saturday, November 03, 2012 3:06 PM
  • No Steam support as a "big issue?"  That sounds more like a personal opinion than anything backed up with data or realistic.  There's around 55 million Steam accounts and 2-5 million concurrent Steam users.  I'm having a hard time seeing lack of Steam support factoring into a tablet purchase decision given that neither Android nor iOS tablets allow you to play Steam games.

    Frankly, it sounds like you're trying to pass off your own opinion as being representative of reality without any data to support your claims.

    For a lot of people Steam and Blizzard are a HUGE deal. I can see how not having any of these game platforms available on RT would be a problem.
    Saturday, November 03, 2012 3:08 PM
  • I've heard rumors that the Surface RT sales numbers have been incredibly low. The 32GB model, for example, has sold less than 50,000 units online and half that in the the stores. Microsoft didn't think they'd sell - so they only manufactured a small amounts - and this is why they "sold out". The 64GB version has only sold about 100,000 units total. A friend who is an MS employee at one store (name withheld to save his job) mentioned that the return rate is very high - about 20% (1 in 5 sales come back). This would coincide with Ballmer refusing to state any sales numbers

    Rumors, rumors and speculation - who has access to those numbers. For instance Wall Street Journal says MS has been prepring 3-5 million units for the Holiday season. BTW if a conversion rate of 80% (4 out of 5) went for a tablet and completely new concept in the OS UI - that would be a really good conversion rate on the first run. Such 20% if they exist could be non-iPad or non-tablet users - dissatisfied with the small device low-energy concept (i.e. like replacing your Mercedes with a Chevrolet Spark, i.e. an iPad = mini-computer with industrial design like a Chevy Spark but choppy iPad playback of 10 gigabyte videofiles). I.e. they want their high performance machine back - and realized they made a mistake thinking "this is Windows 8" and a workstation powered machine. They were not iPad owners - because they are not into tablets ... and Chevy Sparks.

    Better, long term and real speculation :o) : What will happen to tablet and "small device" markets - i.e. now the big operating systems has shrunk? I.e. now you can make Chevy Sparks with Mercedes engine and racing horse power - using a dynamic energy feed to do longer rides on the fuel ... similar to small cars. That's what the hybrid workstation does under the hood. Tablet is history - only a demontration of featurs for PC's? Tablets were PC's (PIM)? Tablets are DLNA "play-to" displays with touch (why have a CPU for applications in there)? MS has been working on crimping that core for many years to run it anywhere. Now even with extended features like the file system. It's also a hit on Linux. And neither Google and Apple is into OS innovation giving away good stuff to the open source Linux or BSD community. So can this also mean the beginning of EOL on wanna-be PC OS'es. Google and Apple needs to get away from Linux and BSD if they want to compete. Soon, it will be all over again. Who is capable of competing with Microsoft? Working long term? Java is not almost gone - it's almost on the brink to die? Oracle makes a lot of uncertainties forcing software designs and new Investments to prep for Java going down (it happenen before Oracle, before Sun died - it happened when the web service came up - and IBM had to do the JSR for Sun on web services). Bye Bye Java motivation.

    It's like highlander - the movie. There can only be one application infrastructure. And it will be - it is Windows. Microsoft is all over the infrastructure having performed better than even Gartner imagined over 10 years ago. At the time Gartner - around 2003 - predicted Microsoft would have a part of 70% of the application infrastructure sharing it with IBM. But that number is probably bigger today. On the other side of may be 80% - and not sharing that?

    So is it Microsoft Network coming up now - and again? Stop downplaying Microsoft. That's just dangerous unless everybodies wants to be in MSN. May be MS paid Apple to make the cloud first.

    I am just seeing the same thing going on again. Microsoft wasting their competitors. We need real competition. But may be it's the end for OS competition sort of. I.e. Windows will be the jet engine every body uses. But without the pressure from Google or Apple this good stuff may not have happened. A time of too little R&D and too much business is hopefully over ...

    With hybrid machines like "Windows 8 non-tablet" coming into the game - it may be hard to sell those tablets. So it's not just about growing tablets - it also about rationalizing with tables (there is no need for them - if you can buy a full blown computer with better energy performance and processing power - and have it better with industrial design as well).

    So computers converging ... somebody tried to diverge it into different businesses (and btw that's not R&D or quality development - but business Development) but now computers are coming back. They are all about convergence ... hybrids, hybrids, hybrids (best of breed features).

    MS should be up for 3-5 million units for the Holiday season. I want a diffent colored cover as well - and this one is for the kitched and wife. Well, in my case just a test machine.

    I am into the hybrid machine - so this is where it takes off. It will take time - but most importantly are the number of upgrades to Windows 8. So we can get those cloud based cheap to produce apps going. Those upgrades carry the later upgrade to machine that has better support for Windows 8 i.e. touch screen or a more natural ui.

    Let's see what happens. The most interesting seems to be that speculative business raising high expectations just does not understand R&D - and evolutionary changes, i.e. best of breed. So another bubble coming. But bad news for the world economy ... vote for something like the tobin tax :o)






    Monday, November 05, 2012 6:45 AM
  • The iPad mini sold a million units per day. Apple has no problem telling us how many units they sell. Why would Microsoft not be publicizing their Surface sales numbers unless they are really low? Ochams razors says that Microsoft is hiding data that would influence their stock negatively.

    Monday, November 05, 2012 4:54 PM
  • I don't think we'll know till they release details, but surely if they sold out they sold more than Microsoft hoped so its a win really isn't it?

    I reject your premise. You say Microsoft sold more than they had hoped for. I say they didn't. Microsoft had hoped to sell around 3 million units. When their marketing research saw the lukewarm anticipation for the surface, they probably scaled production way back. I doubt that MS has sold a tenth of what they had hoped for. Want proof?

    http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/11/ballmer-says-microsoft-surface-sales-off-to-modest-start/

    If sales had exceeded expectations, Balmer would be jumping up and down like he did in his Windows 1.0 ad. They'd be plastering sales figures all over the place like they did for Kinect. Try finding concrete figures from Microsoft on their Kin phones or the Zune. You can't, because sales sucked.

    If they were anywhere in the neighborhood of expectations, he would be saying something like, 'We're off to a great start and building momentum." Instead, he said that Surface sales were off to a moderate start. Translation: "Surface sales tanked."

    Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:45 PM
  • I don't think we'll know till they release details, but surely if they sold out they sold more than Microsoft hoped so its a win really isn't it?

    I reject your premise. You say Microsoft sold more than they had hoped for. I say they didn't. Microsoft had hoped to sell around 3 million units. When their marketing research saw the lukewarm anticipation for the surface, they probably scaled production way back. I doubt that MS has sold a tenth of what they had hoped for. Want proof?

    http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/11/ballmer-says-microsoft-surface-sales-off-to-modest-start/

    If sales had exceeded expectations, Balmer would be jumping up and down like he did in his Windows 1.0 ad. They'd be plastering sales figures all over the place like they did for Kinect. Try finding concrete figures from Microsoft on their Kin phones or the Zune. You can't, because sales sucked.

    If they were anywhere in the neighborhood of expectations, he would be saying something like, 'We're off to a great start and building momentum." Instead, he said that Surface sales were off to a moderate start. Translation: "Surface sales tanked."

    Exactly. Surface sales are not looking good at all. I'll bet Microsoft probably will end up selling only around 500,000 units total this quarter - probably only 20% of what they projected. The reason why Ballmer isn't releasing the sales numbers is that he doesn't want the stock and/or investors to get all riled up seeing the dismal results of the Windows RT launch. This is going to be a disaster for PR when they find out the true numbers.

    Everyone wants Windows 8 Pro and nobody want Windows RT. Windows RT is a flop.

    Monday, November 12, 2012 1:05 AM
  • In the paralell universe where you live Micrsosoft have not advertised the Surface, but in the real world where all of us live Microsoft is expending 1.8 billion on advertising World Wide..

    Apple iPad sole 3 millions on just three days, thats is a very stunning record sales: http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/05/apple-three-million-ipad-sold-in-three-days/

    Monday, November 12, 2012 5:37 AM
  • Its sad we have slumped into a "hate everything MS" and "Love everything Apple" ethos. What happened to applauding innovation and encouraging competition?

    Apple have dropped the ball, just like MS did after the success of XP and MS along with everyone else is scrambling to pick it up. I bought a Surface (using it right now) and will buy the pro when it launches because they better meet my needs than their competition and its the first device since the ipad 1 to really grab my attention.

    I think its brilliant, far from perfect but a real pleasure to use after the new UI learning curve. Let us not forget there are 600 million windows 7 users out there supposedly (http://www.zdnet.com/with-600-million-sales-windows-7-closes-on-xp-4010026342/) and around the same XP users many of which are not tech savvy. For many of them having the same interface on their pc and tablet which could be similar to their phone and games machine (WP8 & xbox 360) could be a real selling point. Its almost definitely the reason (if true) for the 20% return rate too as people don't understand it wont run legacy desktop application. Is anyone naïve enough to think developers wont support Windows Store when there is a potential target audience of 1.2 BILLION users. Even if Windows 8 flops it will ship with millions of new PCs and once everyone gets used to it they will start to like the idea of having the same interface on their tablet too come Windows 9.

    I don't hope MS win and Apple and Google lose, I own products made by all 3. I want to see them all keep innovating to try to win our hearts and minds and so subsequently our wallets, strong competition makes for better products all round. Hopefully this convergence of consumption and creation devices will bring some astounding products to market.

    Lets applaud the iPad, thank Google for waking the smartphone market up from its one device coma and take our hats off to MS for their biggest and bravest O/S change since Windows 95.


    Dicky... Sent from my Windows Phone :)

    Monday, November 12, 2012 10:30 AM
  • Apple have dropped the ball

    Apple has dropped the ball? Apple is selling 1+ million iPhones per day. They sold 1 million iPads per day last weekend. Microsoft can't even sell 1 million surface Windows RT devices in 2 weeks with all their OEMs combined. How exactly is Apple dropping the ball?

    This isn't a hate MS and love apple thing - this is reality.

    Monday, November 12, 2012 2:40 PM
  • In the paralell universe where you live Micrsosoft have not advertised the Surface, but in the real world where all of us live Microsoft is expending 1.8 billion on advertising World Wide..

    Apple iPad sole 3 millions on just three days, thats is a very stunning record sales: http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/05/apple-three-million-ipad-sold-in-three-days/


    Wrong, Apple sold a million iPad Mini's a day. The brand is already established, take a look at actual iPad sales when it first started. And also IPhone sales when that first came. And then look at iPod Touch. Essentially, look at how the first iOS devices sold compared to after iOS became established.
    Monday, November 12, 2012 4:01 PM
  • Windows RT and 8 sales: Signs point to a major flop


    http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsoft-windows/windows-rt-and-8-sales-signs-point-major-flop-206847

    Monday, November 12, 2012 8:17 PM
  • Oh dear, so RT doesn't look good... Yet 4 million desktop versions in just one weekend smashes all Apple records to smithereens, and that according to article will be just the upgrades, no telling on new OEM sales which could make the figure higher. With XP out of support before the next Windows release, 8 is going to be a monstrously huge success because in 2014 nobody will be offering Vista and 7 and as usual nobody will buy a Mac.
    Monday, November 12, 2012 9:38 PM
  • Apple have dropped the ball

    Apple has dropped the ball? Apple is selling 1+ million iPhones per day. They sold 1 million iPads per day last weekend. Microsoft can't even sell 1 million surface Windows RT devices in 2 weeks with all their OEMs combined. How exactly is Apple dropping the ball?

    This isn't a hate MS and love apple thing - this is reality.

    My point is Apple came back from nothing because they saw where the future of computing was headed and they produced some amazing devices that played a big part in shaping where we are but now they aren't innovating they think like so many other corporations have done before that nothing will take their market share away. I just feel like they are milking the success of the iPhone and iPad rather than focusing on pushing the boundaries which is what got them their current status.

    Its only my opinion but iOS is starting to look tired and I think people are starting to look for something new. Sure sales are still good now but I think 12 months from now it could well be a different story.

    I hope I'm wrong, I like apple products but I just want something a little more exciting now and if Apple aren't going to provide then Microsoft, Google or who knows maybe even RIM might just do it instead.

    I love the fact we now actually have some real choices with our smartphones and tablets.


    Dicky... Sent from my Windows Phone :)

    Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:36 AM
  • Windows RT Surface has sold so poorly that Steve Sinofsky was fired! Yes! Finally!

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57548751-75/controversial-windows-boss-steven-sinofsky-leaves-microsoft/

    Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:29 AM
  • Apple have dropped the ball

    Apple has dropped the ball? Apple is selling 1+ million iPhones per day. They sold 1 million iPads per day last weekend. Microsoft can't even sell 1 million surface Windows RT devices in 2 weeks with all their OEMs combined. How exactly is Apple dropping the ball?

    This isn't a hate MS and love apple thing - this is reality.

    My point is Apple came back from nothing because they saw where the future of computing was headed and they produced some amazing devices that played a big part in shaping where we are but now they aren't innovating they think like so many other corporations have done before that nothing will take their market share away. I just feel like they are milking the success of the iPhone and iPad rather than focusing on pushing the boundaries which is what got them their current status.

    Its only my opinion but iOS is starting to look tired and I think people are starting to look for something new. Sure sales are still good now but I think 12 months from now it could well be a different story.

    I hope I'm wrong, I like apple products but I just want something a little more exciting now and if Apple aren't going to provide then Microsoft, Google or who knows maybe even RIM might just do it instead.

    I love the fact we now actually have some real choices with our smartphones and tablets.


    Dicky... Sent from my Windows Phone :

    So far, the most compelling tablets  at this time are the Nexus 7 and Nexus 10 by Google.  There is a complete ecosystem, 700,000 apps and excellent hardware.  In addition, Android 4.2 is quite mature.  Windows RT is still in its infancy and rather insecure about its identity.  I would not expect to sell well, until it matures much more.
    • Edited by ADRz Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:08 AM
    Tuesday, November 13, 2012 4:43 AM
  • Comparing iPad Mini to Surface is unfair, mainly because the iPad is well established in the tablet market (the Mini is just a stupid, cheap, low-end product), iOS has been in the market for 5 years or so. The first iPad wasn't a success either nor was the iPhone until they released the App Store. We have to wait for Surface to develop. Never has a Tech Product penetrated the market so suddenly so chill-out. Microsoft has to release their data at some point of time, Q4 report I'm guessing (sorry I'm not American). 
    Monday, November 19, 2012 3:04 PM
  • Comparing iPad Mini to Surface is unfair, mainly because the iPad is well established in the tablet market (the Mini is just a stupid, cheap, low-end product), iOS has been in the market for 5 years or so. The first iPad wasn't a success either nor was the iPhone until they released the App Store. We have to wait for Surface to develop. Never has a Tech Product penetrated the market so suddenly so chill-out. Microsoft has to release their data at some point of time, Q4 report I'm guessing (sorry I'm not American). 

    The statement that the first iPad and the first iPhone were not successes is totally incorrect.  In fact, they were runaway successes.

    As for waiting for the Surface to mature, this is another matter altogether.  Sure, I am certain that eventually Microsoft will get it right...or not!!! It may even not matter at all.  For example, I am sure that the Zune (which did run the Metro interface) was probably technically superior to the iPod but it was a flop and eventually disappeared. 

    The comments are pertinent to the current product.  If, in the future, there is another, better version of the Surface, I am sure that we will revisit the whole story.  For the time being, it is certainly not worth the investment.  Just a personal opinion.

    Monday, November 19, 2012 7:26 PM
  • I think one of the main reasons is what's the point of the Surface anyway?

    This review has some very good points:

    http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/19/i-got-one-but-i-dont-get-it/

    ------

    "One thing you cannot do with the Touch Cover is type on your lap. This is a
    little odd since Microsoft is clearly positioning the Surface to be a full-on
    laptop replacement. It works great on strong, flat surfaces. Anything else, not
    so much. (By the way, the same is *not* true of the Logitech slim keyboard iPad
    accessory, which I use in my lap all the time.)"

    ...

    "In landscape mode, the browser is slow and a bit buggy, but usable. In portrait mode, it’s sort of ridiculous. Most text I encountered was illegible on the first render of the page. It takes a double-tapping to zoom to fix. The open tab thumbnails also fail to render in portrait mode at first, resulting is some awful-looking, blurry images. These seem to correct over time, but then they’re basically useless since they’re so tall and narrow.

    Speaking of portrait mode, let’s go there. Simply put: the entire device is ridiculous in portrait mode. This is odd since most tablets seem tailored to use this orientation. Not the Surface. Because it’s so long, it just doesn’t feel right holding it this way. (Not to mention the sideways Windows logo.)

    Clearly, Microsoft meant for the Surface to be primarily used in landscape mode. In fact, you can’t even use kickstand and/or keyboards any other way. The Store also doesn’t work this way. I’m not sure it would have been the worst idea in the world to just say the Surface will be landscape-only. Instead, we get an awkward two second software transition that leads to using the device in an awkward orientation. The on-screen keyboard isn’t half-bad in this mode — that’s about the nicest thing I can say."

    -------------

    So, even if you like Windows 8, why get a Surface not and not a touch enabled laptop? The Surface is neither a tablet nor a laptop replacement: Too awkward for the
    former, too slow for the latter (and you can't use Surface on the lap!)

    Wednesday, November 21, 2012 8:24 AM
  • I think one of the main reasons is what's the point of the Surface anyway?

    This review has some very good points:

    http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/19/i-got-one-but-i-dont-get-it/

    ------

    "One thing you cannot do with the Touch Cover is type on your lap. This is a
    little odd since Microsoft is clearly positioning the Surface to be a full-on
    laptop replacement. It works great on strong, flat surfaces. Anything else, not
    so much. (By the way, the same is *not* true of the Logitech slim keyboard iPad
    accessory, which I use in my lap all the time.)"

    ...

    "In landscape mode, the browser is slow and a bit buggy, but usable. In portrait mode, it’s sort of ridiculous. Most text I encountered was illegible on the first render of the page. It takes a double-tapping to zoom to fix. The open tab thumbnails also fail to render in portrait mode at first, resulting is some awful-looking, blurry images. These seem to correct over time, but then they’re basically useless since they’re so tall and narrow.

    Speaking of portrait mode, let’s go there. Simply put: the entire device is ridiculous in portrait mode. This is odd since most tablets seem tailored to use this orientation. Not the Surface. Because it’s so long, it just doesn’t feel right holding it this way. (Not to mention the sideways Windows logo.)

    Clearly, Microsoft meant for the Surface to be primarily used in landscape mode. In fact, you can’t even use kickstand and/or keyboards any other way. The Store also doesn’t work this way. I’m not sure it would have been the worst idea in the world to just say the Surface will be landscape-only. Instead, we get an awkward two second software transition that leads to using the device in an awkward orientation. The on-screen keyboard isn’t half-bad in this mode — that’s about the nicest thing I can say."

    -------------

    So, even if you like Windows 8, why get a Surface not and not a touch enabled laptop? The Surface is neither a tablet nor a laptop replacement: Too awkward for the
    former, too slow for the latter (and you can't use Surface on the lap!)

    Buying anything with Win8 is a recipe for disaster.  The Surface is disaster squared.  I still have not heard any reasonable justification as to why one should buy the Surface in preference to the iPad4 or Nexus 10.  Not a single one. 

    One day, the disaster that is Win8 will transform into a decent mobile OS and a worthy competitor to iOS or Android.  This time is not now or any time in the near future.  In the meantime, Microsoft would have lost the desktop and it would have gained third place in the mobile OS market.  Now, I would call this a "great achievement"!!!

    Wednesday, November 21, 2012 10:53 PM
  • I bought a surface, i'd have rather bought the pro but didn't want to wait, maybe ill trade up when they are released. I considered other windows tablets but liked the size and specs of the surface. I bought a cheap Android tablet a year ago but barring the kids playing games I couldn't get on with it. I found the browser both slow and not touch friendly but for the kids its great.

    I've considered an ipad numerous times but I have an ipod touch and whilst I don't hate it I don't like the UI. Also finding any meaning full apps in the 700k in the app store is nigh on impossible unless you know what app you want. Am I the only person that thinks a store can have too many apps?

    Win 8 is far from perfect but if you take the time to adjust its not bad at all. Im perfectly happy with my surface both for work and play and my kids love playing on it over the Android tab (worst luck). I've not experienced any bugs or crashes barring on configuring the mail app for use with our exchange server and I use it heavily through the day.

    The desktop mode is clunky as all previous versions were on touch screens but they have made some improvements and with some tweaks (changing menu font size, setting default folder view to details etc) it works ok. I use onenote, excel and remote desktop extensively at work as well as the browser for accessing corporate reports and dashboards in meetings. I haven't used powerpoint or word in anger but no doubt will in coming months.

    At home xbox music gets a lot of play along with smartglass and pushing videos from my nas to the xbox and pulling it to my surface as I move around my house and of course browsing. Haven't turned on my home laptop since I got it.

    I don't think its really up against die hard apple fans but more people that want a tablet for normal entertainment and browsing uses but also as an occasional laptop replacement.

    Either way there is plenty of room in the marketplace for all 3 O/S's.


    Dicky... Sent from my Windows Phone :)

    Thursday, November 22, 2012 9:42 AM
  • I bought a surface, i'd have rather bought the pro but didn't want to wait, maybe ill trade up when they are released. I considered other windows tablets but liked the size and specs of the surface. I bought a cheap Android tablet a year ago but barring the kids playing games I couldn't get on with it. I found the browser both slow and not touch friendly but for the kids its great.

    I've considered an ipad numerous times but I have an ipod touch and whilst I don't hate it I don't like the UI. Also finding any meaning full apps in the 700k in the app store is nigh on impossible unless you know what app you want. Am I the only person that thinks a store can have too many apps?

    Win 8 is far from perfect but if you take the time to adjust its not bad at all. Im perfectly happy with my surface both for work and play and my kids love playing on it over the Android tab (worst luck). I've not experienced any bugs or crashes barring on configuring the mail app for use with our exchange server and I use it heavily through the day.

    The desktop mode is clunky as all previous versions were on touch screens but they have made some improvements and with some tweaks (changing menu font size, setting default folder view to details etc) it works ok. I use onenote, excel and remote desktop extensively at work as well as the browser for accessing corporate reports and dashboards in meetings. I haven't used powerpoint or word in anger but no doubt will in coming months.

    At home xbox music gets a lot of play along with smartglass and pushing videos from my nas to the xbox and pulling it to my surface as I move around my house and of course browsing. Haven't turned on my home laptop since I got it.

    I don't think its really up against die hard apple fans but more people that want a tablet for normal entertainment and browsing uses but also as an occasional laptop replacement.

    Either way there is plenty of room in the marketplace for all 3 O/S's.


    Dicky... Sent from my Windows Phone :)

    A couple of observations: Android tablets now are not where they were one year ago.  In fact, with the Nexus 7 and 10, with the newer tablets from Samsung and Asus (especially the Transformer) and the dramatic overhaul of Google Play, the whole Android ecosystem now is not only on par with that of Apple and iOS, I think that it is simply better.  I think that Apple simply holds a small advantage in areas like music and movies, but it is slim.  Hardware on the Android side is better (I think that the Nexus 10 is superior to the iPad 4).

    Second: I understand that you bought the Surface and you are deriving some value from this purchase.  However, I fail to understand why anybody would buy the Surface (and even the Surface Pro) at this time.  Some claim that the reason for purchasing these tablets is the availability of Office.  I find this justification peculiar.  There are a dozen Office alternatives in iOS and Android, all fully capable in working with the Office files.  Nobody is going to compose the Great American Novel in these tablets and nobody will put together a complicated spreadsheet.  All the Office alternatives do an excellent job with PowerPoint.  So, I find this justification curious.

    Then, we come to the Surface ProThis type of tablet would run also typical Windows desktop programs.  But why would anybody would want this???  None of the desktop programs have been developed with touch in mind and they can hardly be described as mobile apps.  Why would anybody prefer to buy a Surface Pro rather than an Ultrabook???  It makes little to no sense.

    At this stage of the game, "Metro/WinRT/Win8" are well behind Android and iOS as far as mobile OSes go.  There is no value proposition here at all.  Everything that one may want to do with a tablet can be accomplished faster, cheaper and easier with the iPad4 and Nexus10.  I just cannot see any justification, whatsoever, for purchasing either the Surface or the Surface Pro.  Maybe, in a year or so, there would be such a justification.  I just cannot see it now.

    Saturday, November 24, 2012 4:56 AM
  • Who are you to tell others what they want?
    Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:42 AM
  • Who are you to tell others what they want?
    I think that you need to calm down.  I am not telling or ordering anybody to do anything. I am just voicing my opinion.  If you disagree, well, this is just fine.  All you need to do is just point out where I may be wrong!!!  Give it a try!!
    Sunday, November 25, 2012 12:09 AM
  • How exactly are you planning on writing apps for your Windows RT Surface on a Windows RT Surface device? As far as I know, Visual Studio won't load on it, so you'll need to have a second Windows 8 computer on which to code your apps. How is a Windows RT Surface device "super cool" for a developer? Also, you realize that you don't get full flash support in the Metro IE, right?

    I have an aging desktop gaming PC that is upgraded to Windows 8... and which is running games better than ever btw. I have the free version of visual studio on it. I have a Surface as well. The remote debugging is fantastic and just works using a unified account across your windows 8 devices. I develop on the PC and use the surface as my baseline test device. Also, touchscreen. Can't develop touchscreen apps without a touchscreen. But I also want them to run on a desktop with a mouse, so it is useful to have both.

    C# is straight up a mature and awesome language which I just happen to know. Learn it and you can write this stuff too. I wrote a 2d game over some months on the preview version of windows 8 on my pc and when I tested it on the Surface (after it finally arrived) it worked first go. The whole environment is well considered and I am hoping they do well with it cause I will put some stuff up there on the App store.

    Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:28 AM
  • Hi,

    I had the chance to test a friend's Surface ARM tablet a couple of weeks ago.

    Its hardware is great, I have no doubt about it.

    I'm not sure if Surface was designed with business-corporate market in mind, but could turn into a great tool if Microsoft decides to add some missing functionality :

    1. Ability to join a domain. IMHO that's a "must" for a corporate Windows client.

    2. Have a bunch popular VPN clients pre-installed (MS VPN, Cisco, Juniper, Checkpoint and others) so users can connect to the office remotely.

    3. Install Office Professional instead of Home and Student. A business user definitely needs Access and Outlook!

    4. Visual Studio Professional for ARM (as an option). I'm not a developer, but if I were I'd definitely be interested on that.

    5. A Java JRE/JDK (many intranet sites require some kind of JRE for users to work)

    6. I'd like to see ARM-native clients for SQL Server, AD administration tools, Exchange administration, Powershell, FTP, Telnet, etc.

    7. A PDF Reader that provides same functionality as latest Adobe reader

    8. I don't care about Metro vs Desktop GUI as long as I have the tools I need on my daily work.


    Sebastian Sajaroff Senior DBA Pharmacies Jean Coutu


    Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:40 PM
  • How exactly are you planning on writing apps for your Windows RT Surface on a Windows RT Surface device? As far as I know, Visual Studio won't load on it, so you'll need to have a second Windows 8 computer on which to code your apps. How is a Windows RT Surface device "super cool" for a developer? Also, you realize that you don't get full flash support in the Metro IE, right?

    I have an aging desktop gaming PC that is upgraded to Windows 8... and which is running games better than ever btw. I have the free version of visual studio on it. I have a Surface as well. The remote debugging is fantastic and just works using a unified account across your windows 8 devices. I develop on the PC and use the surface as my baseline test device. Also, touchscreen. Can't develop touchscreen apps without a touchscreen. But I also want them to run on a desktop with a mouse, so it is useful to have both.

    C# is straight up a mature and awesome language which I just happen to know. Learn it and you can write this stuff too. I wrote a 2d game over some months on the preview version of windows 8 on my pc and when I tested it on the Surface (after it finally arrived) it worked first go. The whole environment is well considered and I am hoping they do well with it cause I will put some stuff up there on the App store.


    Well, since you stand to gain with the success of Win8 and Windows RT, one can hardly state that you are an objective voice here.  But this is just fine.  Some developers will certainly look to Win8 as an income opportunity and an income opportunity that would only materialize if the platform becomes popular.  Thus, I understand your support for the platform.
    Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:16 PM
  • Hi,

    I had the chance to test a friend's Surface ARM tablet a couple of weeks ago.

    Its hardware is great, I have no doubt about it.

    I'm not sure if Surface was designed with business-corporate market in mind, but could turn into a great tool if Microsoft decides to add some missing functionality :

    1. Ability to join a domain. IMHO that's a "must" for a corporate Windows client.

    2. Have a bunch popular VPN clients pre-installed (MS VPN, Cisco, Juniper, Checkpoint and others) so users can connect to the office remotely.

    3. Install Office Professional instead of Home and Student. A business user definitely needs Access and Outlook!

    4. Visual Studio Professional for ARM (as an option). I'm not a developer, but if I were I'd definitely be interested on that.

    5. A Java JRE/JDK (many intranet sites require some kind of JRE for users to work)

    6. I'd like to see ARM-native clients for SQL Server, AD administration tools, Exchange administration, Powershell, FTP, Telnet, etc.

    7. A PDF Reader that provides same functionality as latest Adobe reader

    8. I don't care about Metro vs Desktop GUI as long as I have the tools I need on my daily work.


    Sebastian Sajaroff Senior DBA Pharmacies Jean Coutu



    I am totally befuddled here.  Is anybody going to use a 10''-inch tablet for serious productivity work????  Is this what tablets are best for??? I am almost certain that if you were a developer, you would want to have 30''-inch monitor, not a tiny one.  Currently, there are some excellent tablets out there that do whatever we want them to do.  I just do not see the reason for "Surface" especially since it is not really a full tablet.  It is, if anything, a mini laptop (it is mostly configured to work in the landscape mod).  I thought that these class of computers were called "netbooks".  Essentially, this is what the Surface is.
    Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:20 PM
  • Hi,

    I had the chance to test a friend's Surface ARM tablet a couple of weeks ago.

    Its hardware is great, I have no doubt about it.

    I'm not sure if Surface was designed with business-corporate market in mind, but could turn into a great tool if Microsoft decides to add some missing functionality :

    1. Ability to join a domain. IMHO that's a "must" for a corporate Windows client.

    2. Have a bunch popular VPN clients pre-installed (MS VPN, Cisco, Juniper, Checkpoint and others) so users can connect to the office remotely.

    3. Install Office Professional instead of Home and Student. A business user definitely needs Access and Outlook!

    4. Visual Studio Professional for ARM (as an option). I'm not a developer, but if I were I'd definitely be interested on that.

    5. A Java JRE/JDK (many intranet sites require some kind of JRE for users to work)

    6. I'd like to see ARM-native clients for SQL Server, AD administration tools, Exchange administration, Powershell, FTP, Telnet, etc.

    7. A PDF Reader that provides same functionality as latest Adobe reader

    8. I don't care about Metro vs Desktop GUI as long as I have the tools I need on my daily work.


    Sebastian Sajaroff Senior DBA Pharmacies Jean Coutu



    I am totally befuddled here.  Is anybody going to use a 10''-inch tablet for serious productivity work????  Is this what tablets are best for??? I am almost certain that if you were a developer, you would want to have 30''-inch monitor, not a tiny one.  Currently, there are some excellent tablets out there that do whatever we want them to do.  I just do not see the reason for "Surface" especially since it is not really a full tablet.  It is, if anything, a mini laptop (it is mostly configured to work in the landscape mod).  I thought that these class of computers were called "netbooks".  Essentially, this is what the Surface is.

    We have already covered this, there is no alternative tablet that let's you do what you want. By the way, netbooks can do a lot more than Apple tablets, a heck of a lot more. Surface Pro will be light years ahead of iPad for functionality and deep down you know this.
    • Edited by ProjectVRD Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:56 PM
    Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:55 PM
  • Hi,

    I already know about netbook existence, I work on one from home.

    I'm not using a tablet because, as you said, they don't provide the tools I need (described on my previous email).

    Nevertheless, I'd like to be able to work on a tablet because they're lighter to carry and their battery lasts far longer.

    Surface could be a great solution for corporate users like myself if some basic tools were provided by MS (or someone else).

    1. For example, I can't think of a Windows shop that would acquire a Windows client unable to adhere to their domain.

    2. I can't think of an IT Admin working on a laptop without a VPN client. What's the point? How would you connect from the road or from home?

    3. Outlook is a must for any MS Exchange-based shop, I can't understand why wasn't included on Surface offering.

    4. Many corporate Websites require Java, which doesn't exist on ARM. That's a showstopper for many companies.

    5. I don't work as a developer, but I think that a native ARM Visual Studio IDE would be helpful for those that need to debug their apps on ARM.

    I'm not saying let's type our 50000 lines of code on a 10" tablet, but debugging them on the native platform may be useful.

    6. ARM clients (like SQL Server, AD Admin, Powershell, telnet, SSH, etc) : a must for every sysadmin.


    Sebastian Sajaroff Senior DBA Pharmacies Jean Coutu

    Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:01 PM
  • You'll get those when Surface Pro is released. Right now you have to go with Surface RT which is just like the iPad... In other words, extremely limited.
    • Edited by ProjectVRD Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:04 PM
    Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:04 PM
  • Hi,

    I had the chance to test a friend's Surface ARM tablet a couple of weeks ago.

    Its hardware is great, I have no doubt about it.

    I'm not sure if Surface was designed with business-corporate market in mind, but could turn into a great tool if Microsoft decides to add some missing functionality :

    1. Ability to join a domain. IMHO that's a "must" for a corporate Windows client.

    2. Have a bunch popular VPN clients pre-installed (MS VPN, Cisco, Juniper, Checkpoint and others) so users can connect to the office remotely.

    3. Install Office Professional instead of Home and Student. A business user definitely needs Access and Outlook!

    4. Visual Studio Professional for ARM (as an option). I'm not a developer, but if I were I'd definitely be interested on that.

    5. A Java JRE/JDK (many intranet sites require some kind of JRE for users to work)

    6. I'd like to see ARM-native clients for SQL Server, AD administration tools, Exchange administration, Powershell, FTP, Telnet, etc.

    7. A PDF Reader that provides same functionality as latest Adobe reader

    8. I don't care about Metro vs Desktop GUI as long as I have the tools I need on my daily work.


    Sebastian Sajaroff Senior DBA Pharmacies Jean Coutu



    I am totally befuddled here.  Is anybody going to use a 10''-inch tablet for serious productivity work????  Is this what tablets are best for??? I am almost certain that if you were a developer, you would want to have 30''-inch monitor, not a tiny one.  Currently, there are some excellent tablets out there that do whatever we want them to do.  I just do not see the reason for "Surface" especially since it is not really a full tablet.  It is, if anything, a mini laptop (it is mostly configured to work in the landscape mod).  I thought that these class of computers were called "netbooks".  Essentially, this is what the Surface is.


    We have already covered this, there is no alternative tablet that let's you do what you want. By the way, netbooks can do a lot more than Apple tablets, a heck of a lot more. Surface Pro will be light years ahead of iPad for functionality and deep down you know this.

    I strongly disagree about "no alternative tablet that let's you do what you want".  As you can guess, it all depends on "what you want".  So, honestly, what are you going to use this device for??? 

    My guess is that Surface Pro would be essentially unusable.  Let me explain why:  First of all, it would definitely provide access to Win32 "Legacy" applications. But these Win32 applications are not adapted to a touch interface.  Are they going to be usable in a 10'' tablet??  No, I do not think so.  Have you tried to operate any of the Office apps in a 10'' inch screen.  It is just too ridiculous to contemplate.  On the other hand, there are many office-productivity suites in Android and iOS that are fully compatible with the Office file structure which are fully adapted to the touch interface. 

    In addition, Microsoft had released Outlook.com for both Android and iOS and it would be releasing Office for both these OSes.  So, if I were you, and if I wanted to get a 10'' inch tablet, my choice would be either the iPad or the Nexus 10 (the latter is only $399). Do you really want to pay $1,000 for less hardware and a much poorer ecosystem???

    I am simply trying to understand the logic here.

    Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:34 PM
  • Hi,

    I already know about netbook existence, I work on one from home.

    I'm not using a tablet because, as you said, they don't provide the tools I need (described on my previous email).

    Nevertheless, I'd like to be able to work on a tablet because they're lighter to carry and their battery lasts far longer.

    Surface could be a great solution for corporate users like myself if some basic tools were provided by MS (or someone else).

    1. For example, I can't think of a Windows shop that would acquire a Windows client unable to adhere to their domain.

    2. I can't think of an IT Admin working on a laptop without a VPN client. What's the point? How would you connect from the road or from home?

    3. Outlook is a must for any MS Exchange-based shop, I can't understand why wasn't included on Surface offering.

    4. Many corporate Websites require Java, which doesn't exist on ARM. That's a showstopper for many companies.

    5. I don't work as a developer, but I think that a native ARM Visual Studio IDE would be helpful for those that need to debug their apps on ARM.

    I'm not saying let's type our 50000 lines of code on a 10" tablet, but debugging them on the native platform may be useful.

    6. ARM clients (like SQL Server, AD Admin, Powershell, telnet, SSH, etc) : a must for every sysadmin.


    Sebastian Sajaroff Senior DBA Pharmacies Jean Coutu

    I really do not get this.  A Surface Pro would cost over $1000 and it would have about 8 hours of battery time.  An excellent ultabook would be only slightly heavier, would have much more storage, equal or even better battery time, but it would also have a much better display, better keyboard and it would be running much faster!!!

    I just do not understand the utility of Surface Pro.  Let me have an example where this machine would be the hardware of choice.

    Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:38 PM
  • Hi,

    I had the chance to test a friend's Surface ARM tablet a couple of weeks ago.

    Its hardware is great, I have no doubt about it.

    I'm not sure if Surface was designed with business-corporate market in mind, but could turn into a great tool if Microsoft decides to add some missing functionality :

    1. Ability to join a domain. IMHO that's a "must" for a corporate Windows client.

    2. Have a bunch popular VPN clients pre-installed (MS VPN, Cisco, Juniper, Checkpoint and others) so users can connect to the office remotely.

    3. Install Office Professional instead of Home and Student. A business user definitely needs Access and Outlook!

    4. Visual Studio Professional for ARM (as an option). I'm not a developer, but if I were I'd definitely be interested on that.

    5. A Java JRE/JDK (many intranet sites require some kind of JRE for users to work)

    6. I'd like to see ARM-native clients for SQL Server, AD administration tools, Exchange administration, Powershell, FTP, Telnet, etc.

    7. A PDF Reader that provides same functionality as latest Adobe reader

    8. I don't care about Metro vs Desktop GUI as long as I have the tools I need on my daily work.


    Sebastian Sajaroff Senior DBA Pharmacies Jean Coutu



    I am totally befuddled here.  Is anybody going to use a 10''-inch tablet for serious productivity work????  Is this what tablets are best for??? I am almost certain that if you were a developer, you would want to have 30''-inch monitor, not a tiny one.  Currently, there are some excellent tablets out there that do whatever we want them to do.  I just do not see the reason for "Surface" especially since it is not really a full tablet.  It is, if anything, a mini laptop (it is mostly configured to work in the landscape mod).  I thought that these class of computers were called "netbooks".  Essentially, this is what the Surface is.


    We have already covered this, there is no alternative tablet that let's you do what you want. By the way, netbooks can do a lot more than Apple tablets, a heck of a lot more. Surface Pro will be light years ahead of iPad for functionality and deep down you know this.

    Why will Surface Pro be "light years" ahead of an iPad? With an IPad I can:

    1. Browse the web over wifi and LTE (3g/4g). In fact the Wifi can operate in dual-band mode as well, even on a mini. This is something the surface can't do.

    2. Connect to any activesync, imap, or pop account "out of the box". This is something that the surface can't do.

    3. Use a free iCloud account - or go with skydrive or dropbox.

    4. Use Pages, Numbers, Keynote ($10 each) which work fantastic - or just wait a few months and MS will release Office for iOS. The surface pro, unlike the RT, will not include ANY Office apps - and they are EXPENSIVE! Adding hundreds of dollars onto the surface pricing.

    5. Use a keyboard. In fact, every keyboard I've looked at for the ipad is cheaper than the surface keyboards.

    6. Retina versus the surface screen? No contest. The retina wins hands-down.

    Admittedly the USB/SD storage option is nice - that's a feature missing from the ipad. The ability to load "desktop" apps, honestly isn't a problem at all. I would want a separate "gaming" or "development" machine with a larger screen and better GPU with more RAM if I were buying the device for that purpose (or just use an Xbox). RT users can't run desktop apps anyway.

    So all I can see is a> SD card support and b> Windows desktop support. That certainly is NOT "light years" ahead of an iPad.

    Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:15 PM
  • Hi,

    I had the chance to test a friend's Surface ARM tablet a couple of weeks ago.

    Its hardware is great, I have no doubt about it.

    I'm not sure if Surface was designed with business-corporate market in mind, but could turn into a great tool if Microsoft decides to add some missing functionality :

    1. Ability to join a domain. IMHO that's a "must" for a corporate Windows client.

    2. Have a bunch popular VPN clients pre-installed (MS VPN, Cisco, Juniper, Checkpoint and others) so users can connect to the office remotely.

    3. Install Office Professional instead of Home and Student. A business user definitely needs Access and Outlook!

    4. Visual Studio Professional for ARM (as an option). I'm not a developer, but if I were I'd definitely be interested on that.

    5. A Java JRE/JDK (many intranet sites require some kind of JRE for users to work)

    6. I'd like to see ARM-native clients for SQL Server, AD administration tools, Exchange administration, Powershell, FTP, Telnet, etc.

    7. A PDF Reader that provides same functionality as latest Adobe reader

    8. I don't care about Metro vs Desktop GUI as long as I have the tools I need on my daily work.


    Sebastian Sajaroff Senior DBA Pharmacies Jean Coutu



    I am totally befuddled here.  Is anybody going to use a 10''-inch tablet for serious productivity work????  Is this what tablets are best for??? I am almost certain that if you were a developer, you would want to have 30''-inch monitor, not a tiny one.  Currently, there are some excellent tablets out there that do whatever we want them to do.  I just do not see the reason for "Surface" especially since it is not really a full tablet.  It is, if anything, a mini laptop (it is mostly configured to work in the landscape mod).  I thought that these class of computers were called "netbooks".  Essentially, this is what the Surface is.


    We have already covered this, there is no alternative tablet that let's you do what you want. By the way, netbooks can do a lot more than Apple tablets, a heck of a lot more. Surface Pro will be light years ahead of iPad for functionality and deep down you know this.

    Why will Surface Pro be "light years" ahead of an iPad? With an IPad I can:

    1. Browse the web over wifi and LTE (3g/4g). In fact the Wifi can operate in dual-band mode as well, even on a mini. This is something the surface can't do.

    2. Connect to any activesync, imap, or pop account "out of the box". This is something that the surface can't do.

    3. Use a free iCloud account - or go with skydrive or dropbox.

    4. Use Pages, Numbers, Keynote ($10 each) which work fantastic - or just wait a few months and MS will release Office for iOS. The surface pro, unlike the RT, will not include ANY Office apps - and they are EXPENSIVE! Adding hundreds of dollars onto the surface pricing.

    5. Use a keyboard. In fact, every keyboard I've looked at for the ipad is cheaper than the surface keyboards.

    6. Retina versus the surface screen? No contest. The retina wins hands-down.

    Admittedly the USB/SD storage option is nice - that's a feature missing from the ipad. The ability to load "desktop" apps, honestly isn't a problem at all. I would want a separate "gaming" or "development" machine with a larger screen and better GPU with more RAM if I were buying the device for that purpose (or just use an Xbox). RT users can't run desktop apps anyway.

    So all I can see is a> SD card support and b> Windows desktop support. That certainly is NOT "light years" ahead of an iPad.

    I do not even see any advantage, considering how poor the Microsoft ecosystem is.  Actually, most of the capability of the iPad is more than duplicated in Nexus 10 which has an even better display and access to USB storage!!! And it only costs $399.  I am still scratching my head as to why anybody needs to shell out $1100 (including the keyboard for something that would not even have any preinstalled apps. 

    Actually, most of the usability of the tablets comes out of the their use in the portrait mode.  The Surface tablets cannot be easily used in the portrait mode.  They are designed to operate mostly as notebooks not as tablets.  And this is a major failing.

    Wednesday, December 19, 2012 3:45 AM
  • Hi,

    I'm not focused on the pricing (which is excessive in my opinion), I'm talking about tools that should be included to be usable for an IT corporate user.


    Sebastian Sajaroff Senior DBA Pharmacies Jean Coutu

    Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:20 PM
  • Hi,

    I'm not focused on the pricing (which is excessive in my opinion), I'm talking about tools that should be included to be usable for an IT corporate user.


    Sebastian Sajaroff Senior DBA Pharmacies Jean Coutu


    Which is exactly what eludes us.  It would be helpful if you specify
    Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:31 PM
  • You make excellent sense! Old Win apps are not readily usable on tablet computers. Perhaps I'll stop using my Surface as a pizza serving tray. The Office 2013 apps seem to work well, I miss Java but the tablet is a convenient way of reading the news in bed every morning. If only they could port MSN Internet Backgammon to Windows RT...

    Tuesday, January 01, 2013 11:19 AM
  • Yes, the iPad with Retina and the cheaper M$ Office (in Australia) is a winner by a long nose, but they lose points for no USB port and reliance on iTunes. But I think M$ is going the same way with Win RT.
    Tuesday, January 01, 2013 11:23 AM
  • Last week I saw the first Surface tablets on exhibit in a retail store. There were close to the Apple iPads. Lots of others were less prominently displayed such as the RIMM Playbook etc.

    I expect 2013 to see a flood of tablets in the market. The cheap android tablets available on eBay are not yet being sold in retail stores.


    Windows MVP, XP, Vista, 7 and 8. More people have climbed Everest than having 3 MVP's on the wall.

    Hardcore Games, Legendary is the only Way to Play

    Developer | Windows IT | Chess | Economics | Vegan Advocate | PC Reviews

    This is wrong.  In fact, Google's Nexus 7 and 10 are indeed sold in many retail outlets, including Office Depot, Staples and others.  They are the best reviewed tablets in their categories and Google is advertizing them extensively.  I think that they provide the best experience in their respective categories but the Apple tablets are highly competitive. 

    I do not think that the Surface tablets are even tablets.  They are mostly notebooks, that can only be used fully with a keyboard and a mouse in the landscape orientation. 

    Tuesday, January 01, 2013 2:55 PM