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Windows 7 Administrator Access Denied, can't save, can't move file

    Question

  • First symptom, from Notepad2 I can't save to C:\_Work folder.  So I saved to my desktop and then tried to drag my document to C:\_Work.  In both cases I receive an Access Denied error.

     Destination Folder Access Denied
     --------------------------------
     You'll need to provide administrator permissions to move to this folder

    I can use this folder when logged in as a regular user, but not when logged in as Administrator.  I've checked the permissions.  I've checked the 'Effective Rights'.  All seems good.

    I recently enabled c:\_work as a library under Documents.  Does that block the Administrator?  How do I keep it in the Library while allowing the Administrator access?

    I've spent hours searching for a solution.  The solutions suggest things like 'Take Ownership'.  That's not a solution.   Not every account can own the folder. 

    I've seen solutions like save all your files to a USB drive, delete and recreate the folder to fix the corrupted permissions.  If deleting the "corrupted" permissions is a solution, why are permissions getting corrupted so often? 

    Corruption of permissions, at random, on Administrator permissions, is enough to make me scared of Windows 7.  It seems there is a bug in Windows 7.  How can I fix the actual problem so it doesn't keep happening on this machine and ALL our other machines?  Also, all the Mac guys are laughing at me, and then they convert others away from Windows.  I've posted on this before, but there's never a solution, and yet I don't want to become one of them limp wristed Mac guys.  I drink coffee.

    .


    I've used forums since the old BBS days. Moderators are good. Moderators bring civility. But in the Expression Web forums, the most uncivil are the moderators and their entourage of thugs. They alienate customers and then abuse those who speak out against abuse.

    Tuesday, August 07, 2012 5:37 PM

Answers

  • It works now.  The only thing different between now and last night is I booted into Safe Mode once, did a successful test, and rebooted again into normal mode.  To recount my steps:

    o Can't save to c:\_work when logged on as Administrator.  Can't move a file from Desktop to _work.
    o Gave Ownership to 'HomeUsers' on work folder, of which the Administrator is a member.
    o Rebooted:  Successfully moved a file, yet saving gave me a warning and saved anyway.  Launched Notepad with elevated privilege and successfully saved test4.txt without a warning.
    o Shut Down, logon as Regular User, opened existing DOCX.
    o Shut Down, logon as Administrator, granted Full permission to 'HomeUser' on work folder.  During process received 'Access Denied' on the DOCX and temp4.txt which was saved earlier using elevated privilege.
    o Shut Down, boot in Safe Mode.  Saved test.txt successfully.
    o Restart to normal mode.  Saved test.txt successfully.


    Beware of unmoderated thugs in the Expression Web forums.



    Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:02 PM

All replies

  • 1. What is the result of cacls

    2. Is there any difference when you use priviledged rights.

    3. What is the "history" of this trouble? (Old, new, installation of software, change of configuration,...)

    Regards

    Milos

    Tuesday, August 07, 2012 7:46 PM
  • I have a solution.  But first let me gripe at Microsoft in the hope someone is listening.  This "security improvement" in Vista and Windows 7 is no improvement at all.  All the forums and all the threads say "take ownership".  Well I found a twist on that solution that I'll explain in a moment.  But think about it.  Does Microsoft really want us to teach the users to use 'Properties', find the security tab, and start changing things?  That is NOT an improvement in security.  Another suggested solution, again by Microsoft, is to implement Group Policy or Local Policy to "automatically change ownership".  That's not a solution either since any script or malicious code could take advantage just the same as before.

    One last editorial:  I like the idea that the local Administrator is not a member of the local 'User' security group, and that you must be a member of the group that owns the folder to participate in the folder.  But my solution is so simple, I'm disappointed the various Microsoft forum contributors have not been taught this solution.....

    SOLUTION:  Don't give ownership of a common folder to the administrator or any single user.  Rather, grant ownership to a group.  In the case of a non-Domain system, consider granting ownership to 'HomeUsers'.  This group is created automatically and all local users, including the Administrator, are members. 

    Possible cause:  When I looked at ownership of my c:\_work folder, I found an SID number rather than a user name.  I suspect that means the SID isn't recognized by the local authentication service.  This machine is not, and never has been a member of a domain.  I performed a clean install of Windows 7 Enterprise.  I created the \_work folder, probably as a user.  I've been researching Robocopy and have used many different versions on this computer.  One of the newer versions is said to have a bug that changes attributes of source files.  I don't know if this is the cause.

    .


    I've used forums since the old BBS days. Moderators are good. Moderators bring civility. But in the Expression Web forums, the most uncivil are the moderators and their entourage of thugs. They alienate customers and then abuse those who speak out against abuse.

    Tuesday, August 07, 2012 10:52 PM
  • The problem is not completely fixed.  I think you'll find these new symptoms intriguing.

    After granting ownership of c:\_work to 'HomeUsers', my Administrator account was able to successfully drag files from the desktop to c:\_work, so I thought it was fixed.

    However, when I attempted to save a text file from Notepad2, it saved the file, but gave me an 'Access Denied' error as if it failed.  I tried with Windows Notepad and got the same result.  I rebooted and got the same result.  I can drag files to c:\_work, yet an attempt to save from Notepad returns 'Access Denied', but saves the file anyway.

    So the problem remains. I'll experiment with cacls.  I'm not familiar with privileged rights.  Does that mean 'Run as Administrator', or are they a different kind of permission?

    .


    I've used forums since the old BBS days. Moderators are good. Moderators bring civility. But in the Expression Web forums, the most uncivil are the moderators and their entourage of thugs. They alienate customers and then abuse those who speak out against abuse.

    Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:11 PM
  • Hi,

    I would like to verify if you can save the file to other hard drive successfully? Please test if the file can be saved to C drive in Safe Mode.

    If you can perform it in Safe Mode. Please check the UAC related registries according to the follwing article.
    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd835564(v=ws.10).aspx

    Niki
    TechNet Subscriber Support
    If you are
    TechNet Subscription user and have any feedback on our support quality, please send your feedback here


    Niki Han

    TechNet Community Support

    Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:31 AM
  • Niki, I'll try in safe mode and read the document you suggested.

    Here's another very interesting symptom.  I used my system offsite today and logged on as a normal user.  I opened an existing DOCX while offsite with Word 2007.  I don't recall making any changes or saving any changes, but I may have.  Here's the interesting part:  I used Shutdown, then came home, powered up, logged on as administrator, and launched Windows Explorer with elevated permission.  I looked at c:\_work and noticed that HomeUsers doesn't have Full Control, so I granted it.  While the system processed granting Full Control on hundreds of folders and files within c:\_work, two files gave "Access Denied Errors".  One of them was the DOCX.  The other was Temp4.txt, which I had saved as a test of this issue.

    The reason Temp4.txt is interesting is, of the six files that I saved during this test, Temp4.txt was the only one I saved by launching Notepad with elevated permission.

    Here are the results of the previous suggestions.  I ran cacls in an elevated command window.  Here are the results

    C:\_Work NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:(OI)(CI)F
             wdn\User1:(OI)(CI)F
             wdn\HomeUsers:(OI)(CI)(special access:)

                                   READ_CONTROL
                                   SYNCHRONIZE
                                   FILE_GENERIC_READ
                                   FILE_GENERIC_WRITE
                                   FILE_GENERIC_EXECUTE
                                   FILE_READ_DATA
                                   FILE_WRITE_DATA
                                   FILE_APPEND_DATA
                                   FILE_READ_EA
                                   FILE_WRITE_EA
                                   FILE_EXECUTE
                                   FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES
                                   FILE_WRITE_ATTRIBUTES
     
             BUILTIN\Administrators:(OI)(CI)F

    Also, I tried saving a text file at different levels in the folder heirarchy, but always with the same result.  The exception was in saving Temp4.txt with elevated permissions.  It saved normally without warnings.  All the other tests gave false warnings, yet the file saved correctly.   


    Beware of unmoderated thugs in the Expression Web forums.



    • Edited by backup admin Wednesday, August 08, 2012 7:27 AM clarify
    Wednesday, August 08, 2012 7:21 AM
  • It works now.  The only thing different between now and last night is I booted into Safe Mode once, did a successful test, and rebooted again into normal mode.  To recount my steps:

    o Can't save to c:\_work when logged on as Administrator.  Can't move a file from Desktop to _work.
    o Gave Ownership to 'HomeUsers' on work folder, of which the Administrator is a member.
    o Rebooted:  Successfully moved a file, yet saving gave me a warning and saved anyway.  Launched Notepad with elevated privilege and successfully saved test4.txt without a warning.
    o Shut Down, logon as Regular User, opened existing DOCX.
    o Shut Down, logon as Administrator, granted Full permission to 'HomeUser' on work folder.  During process received 'Access Denied' on the DOCX and temp4.txt which was saved earlier using elevated privilege.
    o Shut Down, boot in Safe Mode.  Saved test.txt successfully.
    o Restart to normal mode.  Saved test.txt successfully.


    Beware of unmoderated thugs in the Expression Web forums.



    Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:02 PM
  • Please pass this thread to your engineers.  It reveals an interesting bug.

    When I first gave ownership of the work folder to 'HomeUsers', HomeUsers had ordinary user permissions.  I saved temp4.txt from the Administrator account using elevated privilege with Notepad.  I logged on as a normal user and opened an existing DOCX with Word 2007.

    Later, after a cold boot, I logged on as Administrator and granted 'Full Control' to HomeUsers on the work folder.  While Windows was processing the new permissions on hundreds of folders and files, only two files returned an 'Access Denied' message and wouldn't allow the permissions to be changed.  Those files were the DOCX and the temp4.txt. 

    Certainly this result indicates the existence of a bug and provides a clue to where that bug exists.  You can see from my history that I'm a Microsoft loyalist.  It's my sincere hope these tests help resolve a long-standing problem. 

    .


    Beware of unmoderated thugs in the Expression Web forums.

    Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:21 PM
  • Hi,

    Thanks for your efforts on this issue. I will collect and forward this information to the appropriate department through our internal channel. Meanwhile, you can send your feedback to: http://mymfe.microsoft.com/Windows%20%207/Feedback.aspx?formID=195

    Niki
    TechNet Subscriber Support
    If you are
    TechNet Subscriptionuser and have any feedback on our support quality, please send your feedback here


    Niki Han

    TechNet Community Support

    Thursday, August 09, 2012 2:48 AM