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WVPC or Virtual Server? - on Windows 7

    Question

  • I don't know why Microsoft made Windows 7 blocks Virtual Server 2005 R2. There may be a good reason; or they just simply want everyone stops using it and gose to Hyper-V. And for users who want to have Virtual Machine on Windows 7, Microsoft very kindly pervides them the new Windows Virtual PC - some say it's based on the same engine with Vertual Server.

    Based on this thread - http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/w7itprovirt/thread/a98e77b7-95d4-444f-8dbc-630c98074436 It is possible that Virtual Server can be installed on Windows 7. So users of Windows 7 still have a choice between VS and WVPC.

    A friend of mine, a programer, said that Virtual Server gives you better security than Virtual PC 2007 can do. "It share clipboard between host OS and guest OS. There must be an opened port or something else between them. If the guest OS is hacked, the host OS can be hacked because of that." Is this true? If it is, the WVPC also have clipboard sharing. Does that cause the same security issue? My friend always browses those "high risk" web site on VM, with the Undo disk, he can open and try anything he want to! So convenient!!!

    Since Virtual Server is blocked and WVPC allows to connect usb devices and local drives, just go for WVPC may save lots of troubles (see! now the WVPC can even touch the hardware of host OS). Would someone have the answer? Thanks a lot!! :)
    Wednesday, December 09, 2009 8:41 PM

Answers

  • Virtual Server can run under Windows 7, but it's limited to emulated IDE disks in the VM, emulated SCSI disks, which was good for large disk support, doesn't work.  Of course Virtual Server is not supported at all on Windows 7.

    Yes, Windows Virtual PC has clipboard sharing support, but I don't think it's a security concern, I've never heard of an exploit that used that vector.

    WVPC can only touch USB devices, not all of the hardware, and WVPC also has undo disk support..




    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    • Marked as answer by Robinson Zhang Friday, December 11, 2009 6:46 AM
    Wednesday, December 09, 2009 8:54 PM
  • I posted in the thread you referenced, which started when Windows 7 Virtual PC was still in beta. Virtual Server would run on the beta version of Virtual Server. It does not run on the final, RTM version on Windows 7. It can be made to run on Windows 7, but it is quite inconvenient to do so. I have gotten it to work on RTM, but I recommend not doing it. Virtual Server is end of life. Nothing more is going to be done to it. You have better security with a supported product than an unsupported product.

    My informed and best opinion is that you should use Windows 7 VPC and not Virtual Server. All of the virtualization MVPs use it and we do know how to use Virtual Server but we choose not to.

    • Marked as answer by Robinson Zhang Friday, December 11, 2009 6:53 AM
    Wednesday, December 09, 2009 11:36 PM

All replies

  • Virtual Server can run under Windows 7, but it's limited to emulated IDE disks in the VM, emulated SCSI disks, which was good for large disk support, doesn't work.  Of course Virtual Server is not supported at all on Windows 7.

    Yes, Windows Virtual PC has clipboard sharing support, but I don't think it's a security concern, I've never heard of an exploit that used that vector.

    WVPC can only touch USB devices, not all of the hardware, and WVPC also has undo disk support..




    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    • Marked as answer by Robinson Zhang Friday, December 11, 2009 6:46 AM
    Wednesday, December 09, 2009 8:54 PM
  • I posted in the thread you referenced, which started when Windows 7 Virtual PC was still in beta. Virtual Server would run on the beta version of Virtual Server. It does not run on the final, RTM version on Windows 7. It can be made to run on Windows 7, but it is quite inconvenient to do so. I have gotten it to work on RTM, but I recommend not doing it. Virtual Server is end of life. Nothing more is going to be done to it. You have better security with a supported product than an unsupported product.

    My informed and best opinion is that you should use Windows 7 VPC and not Virtual Server. All of the virtualization MVPs use it and we do know how to use Virtual Server but we choose not to.

    • Marked as answer by Robinson Zhang Friday, December 11, 2009 6:53 AM
    Wednesday, December 09, 2009 11:36 PM
  • Virtual Server can run under Windows 7, but it's limited to emulated IDE disks in the VM, emulated SCSI disks, which was good for large disk support, doesn't work.  Of course Virtual Server is not supported at all on Windows 7.

    Yes, Windows Virtual PC has clipboard sharing support, but I don't think it's a security concern, I've never heard of an exploit that used that vector.

    WVPC can only touch USB devices, not all of the hardware, and WVPC also has undo disk support..

    ...... Virtual Server is end of life. Nothing more is going to be done to it. You have better security with a supported product than an unsupported product.

    My informed and best opinion is that you should use Windows 7 VPC and not Virtual Server. All of the virtualization MVPs use it and we do know how to use Virtual Server but we choose not to.

    Thanks for your time. Your replies really help. I think I'll just use WVPC. Thanks again!! :-)
    Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:35 AM
  • How about upgrading Virtual PC to be able to use last years server's etc. I am disappointed I could not get even a console version of Linux to work. I tried everything and nothing cooperated.

    Given that the Windows 7 VPC supports grabbing an IP address from the host OS's same DHCP server means ports will be available depending on the applications being used. I like this as its a lot better than the old way of 2 layers of DHCP.

    Vote if answered or helpful, I am running for Office (joke)! IT/Developer, Windows/Linux/Mainframe

    Server: ASRock P4-2GHz, 1.5 GB RAM, Linux Server, need IDE/SATA disks for my chess site

    Workstation: Asus M2NBP-VM CSM, Athlon64 X2 4200+ 65W CPU, 2GB RAM, NVIDIA 8600GT, 320GB + 160G backup, Windows 7 Ultimate x64.
    Friday, December 11, 2009 12:05 AM
  • What's the best way to automatically startup a  windows VPC VM headless in background at boot under Windows 7 Pro ?

    I found this vbs script, but it appears to require Virtual Server


    Set objVS = CreateObject("VirtualServer.Application")
    Set myVPC = objVS.FindVirtualMachine("win2003_base")
    myVPC.Startup()

    Gives me an error that it can't create object virtualServer.Application.

    If I must install Virtual Server, which should I install?

    thanks.

    Friday, January 29, 2010 3:26 PM
  • I never really figured out a good way, I could get the VM started no problem, but shutting it down was a problem when shutting down the PC.

    Here's the equivalent WVPC script:

    Set objShell = CreateObject ("WScript.Shell")
    Set virtualpc = CreateObject("VirtualPC.Application")
    set vm = virtualpc.FindVirtualMachine("myVPC")
    vm.Startup

    I called it with a batch file like this:

    cscript.exe vbrunas.vbs userid password "cscript.exe C:\Windows\System32\GroupPolicy\Machine\Scripts\Startup\vmstartup.vbs"


    Note that you have to change the DCOM permisions of Virtual PC to allow the system to start the VM.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Friday, January 29, 2010 3:44 PM
  • Thanks Bob,

    The DCOM permissions on Virtual PC are grayed out, even if I run component services as administrator in Windows 7. I can see that I can change other executables, but not Virtual PC.

    ===
    Update: I was able find the  regestry key for VPC and make administrators owners and then allow local launching from the service.

    The service now starts the VM, but only when I launch it manually

    I''ve set the service  to automatic delayed. I reboot the desktop and wait 10 minutes, but the VM never comes up. I finally log in and see that service is running, but no process for the VPC. I check the event log and see the service started with no errors.

    Is there a VPC log somwhere I can check?

    Could these event errors be related:

    atikmdag: Display is not active
    atikmadag: CPLIB:: General Invalid Parameter

    ===
    Update. The Service definitely requires that I be logged  in (which defeats the purpose of course).  I added a Sleep and  witnessed it running whle I was logged . Rebooted without logging in and the script never makes it passed the Startup()

    Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:54 AM
  • How are you running the script that starts the VM?  Task scheduler?


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:29 PM
  • There should be an option to run the VM at startup. That is used for virtual servers mostly.


    Vote if answered or helpful, I am running for Office (joke)! IT/Developer, Windows/Linux/Mainframe RaidMax Smilodon, 680W, Asus M2NBP-VM CSM AMD X2 4200+, 2GB DDR2-800, x600, more details on my site, need a video card for the Windows machine, the 8600 GT fried
    Sunday, January 31, 2010 11:09 PM
  • There should be an option to run the VM at startup. That is used for virtual servers mostly.
    I don't disagree, but they really didn't set up WVPC to run like that, it seems more vestigal from Virtual Server and the scripting rather than from planning for it to do so.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Monday, February 01, 2010 3:42 AM
  • I use Virtual PC a lot for obsolete programs I need. I also have one setup for beta releases so I can avoid problems with the host OS. For me Virtual machines are handy for development and testing. For servers the world is different. Virtualization comes in many forms.

    Vote if answered or helpful, I am running for Office (joke)! IT/Developer, Windows/Linux/Mainframe RaidMax Smilodon, 680W, Asus M2NBP-VM CSM AMD X2 4200+, 2GB DDR2-800, x600, more details on my site, need a video card for the Windows machine, the 8600 GT fried
    Monday, February 01, 2010 4:24 AM
  • I have no arguement with that.

    It would be kind of nice to have an automatic way to start a VM on boot for devlopment purposes as well, even if it isn't production...


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Monday, February 01, 2010 2:06 PM
  • How are you running the script that starts the VM?  Task scheduler?


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    From a Windows Service that calls a cmd script. the service is using srvany.exe , and actually the service will run If I kick if off or happen to be logged in when it launches.

    It just won't execute the startup step if nobody is logged in.
    Monday, February 01, 2010 3:43 PM
  • Try running it with the task scheduler instead, you can set it to run on startup and with a particular users credentials.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Monday, February 01, 2010 6:53 PM
  • Okay. I created a Task and pointed it to my cmd file and enabled it. Ran it manually and it launched the VM as expected just as my Service was doing.

    So then, I set the trigger to run at startup after the network and gave it a one minute delay, Rebooted, waited 5 minutes and logged in. Exactly like the service, the script runs, but apparently hangs or dies at the Startup step of my VBSCRIPT code.

    There appears to something in WVPC/Windows 7 where the VM can't launch unless a user is logged in.

    Here are my scripts, somebody please prove me wrong using Windows 7 and Window Virtual PC:


    startvm.cmd:
    cscript c:\mypath\startvm.vbs


    startvm.vbs:
    Set objVS = CreateObject("VirtualPC.Application")
    Set myVPC = objVS.FindVirtualMachine("MYVM")
    myVPC.Startup()


    Thanks.

    Tuesday, February 02, 2010 1:33 PM
  • Something weird is going on here, I wonder if a fix came around and broke that method of starting VM's.

    It looks like the VM trys to start up but fails.  I'll have to do more research on it...


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Tuesday, February 02, 2010 4:32 PM
  • I've replicated your results, so they must have changed something.  I haven't been able to get a VM to start on boot either.  I'll think about it but it doesn't look good right now.

    Perhaps you should change to some other VM product to get the kind of functionality you want.  VMWare Server may be able to do what you want, but I haven't tried it for that task.

    Meanwhile I'll try and figure out why it's not working anymore in WVPC, but remember that it wasn't really designed to run this way so there's no way you can be sure it would stay running, even if you or I get it to.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Tuesday, February 02, 2010 5:34 PM
  • I recall that Virtual PC 2007 allowed the VM to run at startup but that seems to be missing with the new version with Windows 7.

    I think Microsoft wants us VPC users to use Windows Server at 10x the cost. Good Luck.

    Vote if answered or helpful, I am running for Office (joke)! IT/Developer, Windows/Linux/Mainframe RaidMax Smilodon, 680W, Asus M2NBP-VM CSM AMD X2 4200+, 2GB DDR2-800, x600, more details on my site, need a video card for the Windows machine, the 8600 GT fried
    Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:12 PM
  • VPC 2007 was an application just like Windows VPC.
    Virtual Server 2005 had the ability to run as a service.

    Hyper-V server is a free product.
    Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:45 PM
  • I was not able to get Virtual Server 2005 to run with XP x64 as it wanted me to use Server 2003 or better.

    Will it work on Windows 7?

    Vote if answered or helpful, I am running for Office (joke)! IT/Developer, Windows/Linux/Mainframe RaidMax Smilodon, 680W, Asus M2NBP-VM CSM AMD X2 4200+, 2GB DDR2-800, x600, more details on my site, need a video card for the Windows machine, the 8600 GT fried
    Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:10 PM
  • Virtual Server 2005 can run on WIn7, but you basically have to disable the app compatibility checks to get install and then fiddle with it to keep it running.

    However, SCSI VHD's don't work under Win7, so it limits its usefulness.

    Not recommended and definitely not supported.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:51 PM
  • I have noted that old VMs from before did not universally work. I have a SCSI stack up already from a virtual CD program that I use extensively.

    Vote if answered or helpful, I am running for Office (joke)! IT/Developer, Windows/Linux/Mainframe RaidMax Smilodon, 680W, Asus M2NBP-VM CSM AMD X2 4200+, 2GB DDR2-800, x600, more details on my site, need a video card for the Windows machine, the 8600 GT fried
    Wednesday, February 03, 2010 2:21 PM
  • In my case the VM works under 7, I just can't get it to startup automatically at boot with my script like I use to under  MSVPC 2005 and Vista. Trully disappointing, bordering on tragic for me.

    I too believe this is by design.

    Now looking on converting to VMWARE as I don't want to buy Virtual Server 2005 and jam it into 7.

    I barely know what it is, but can Hyper-V fit or help here?

    Many Thanks.
    Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:26 PM
  • Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:33 PM
  • That article was the basis for my script. If you run that script in a task or service while on windows 7 at boot without login it will hang at this step

    Set objVMTask = objVM.Startup()

    Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:29 PM
  • Steve,

    No, I hadn't seen that.  Interesting about disabling the integration features, hadn't thought of doing that on headless VM's, though I should have!


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:45 PM
  • JCNET,

    Virtual Server is free, you don't buy it.  It's a pain to get it installed but it can work...

    Hyper-V is a whole different beast and really wont help you unless you want to change your OS -- it doesn't run on top of Windows 7, it runs as a standalone OS or part of Windows Server.



    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:47 PM
  • I have other options in my shop, the old computer now is a Linux appliance and I use that machine for solutions that Windows falls short for.

    I am a small shop but I do have lots of old computers to use.

    Vote if answered or helpful, I am running for Office (joke)! IT/Developer, Windows/Linux/Mainframe RaidMax Smilodon, 680W, Asus M2NBP-VM CSM AMD X2 4200+, 2GB DDR2-800, x600, more details on my site, need a video card for the Windows machine, the 8600 GT fried
    Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:18 PM
  • Bob,

    Which version of Virtual Server do you recommend? Do you have a download link for x64 under 7? Any good guides? I found this post

    Virtual Server 2005 R2 SP1 says it's not support on IA64 (trying at work). I'm looking to try on AMD64 at home.

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/w7itprovirt/thread/a98e77b7-95d4-444f-8dbc-630c98074436

    Thanks.
    Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:57 PM
  • IA64 is Itanium, and Virtual Server, Virtual PC, etc do not support Itanium.

    Big difference from the x86_64 (x64 Intel or AMD) based systems.

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/bb738033.aspx#
    Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:48 PM
  • http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=bc49c7c8-4840-4e67-8dc4-1e6e218acce4

    Is the place to download Virtual Server R2 SP1 (the latest)  Just pink the 64-bit/Setup one.

    I really don't recommend going this way though unless you really want to stay with a Microsoft product and you really need to have the functionality that's missing in WVPC.  The Answer to the thread you mentioned has the intructions on how to get it installed and working.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Friday, February 05, 2010 2:12 PM
  • Disregard the ia64 thing, that is just a generic warning. I am amd64.

    I followed the install procedures in this thread. Including turning off compatiblity items and configuring IIS 7. Ran the install of x64. Rebooted and installed. It  ran almost to completion and then produced this.

    Faulting application name: MsiExec.exe, version: 5.0.7600.16385, time stamp: 0x4a5bc7bd
    Faulting module name: MSI42CB.tmp, version: 1.1.603.0, time stamp: 0x4655ff0c
    Exception code: 0xc000000d
    Fault offset: 0x0000000000002b2c
    Faulting process id: 0xea0
    Faulting application start time: 0x01caa66a1488c6ad
    Faulting application path: C:\Windows\system32\MsiExec.exe
    Faulting module path: C:\Windows\Installer\MSI42CB.tmp
    Report Id: 60f2369c-125d-11df-9140-00226865c938

    When I tried to reinstall, it would say that Virtual Server is already running.

    I launch Virtual server and it appears okay. I open an exiting VMC from the web interface, but can't start it. just won't start.

    I tried creating a new New Virtual and point it to my VHD, but get this error this browser client error when I attempt to start it from Virtual Server Manager. Note fresh windows 7 pro install so I have IE 8.

    Message: 'document.getElementById(...)' is null or not an object
    URI: http://myserver/VirtualServer/VSWebApp.exe?view=2&vm=myvm

    I found this, but not sure where to set that or if it's a fix or a question.
    https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/details/332243/virtual-server-2005-r2-webpage-script-errors?wa=wsignin1.0



    Just having lots of fun with this now.

    Thanks.

    Friday, February 05, 2010 4:05 PM
  • <form id="aspnetForm" action="edit" enctype="application/x-www-form-urlencoded" method="post">

     

    JCNET 
    
    The DCOM permissions on Virtual PC are grayed out, even if I run component services as administrator in Windows 7. I can see that I can change other executables, but not Virtual PC.
    
    
    

    Hi JCNET.


    I found solutin for it - I start new thread - http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/w7itprovirt/thread/2e83b9fc-a6f4-4c4f-b89f-d6cf756f18d2.

    To Task scheduler I put simply the vmcx file.

    </form>
    • Proposed as answer by Zdenek Brydl Thursday, November 25, 2010 2:11 PM
    Thursday, November 25, 2010 2:11 PM