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Windows 7 Workgroup Problems with XP

    Question

  • I was able to use file and printer sharing between my XP and Windows 7 boxes until it suddenly stopped working.  I can still use it between my XP machines.  I have seen many similar problems in the forums, but none of the proposed solutions works.  (Mostly because most of them are really basic things like setting the workgroup names to be the same.)  Additionally, I know that it isn't a setup problem since it did work previously, but some setting changed on W7 which makes it no longer work.  I also know that it isn't a network problem as can ping and remote desktop the IP of the XP machine from W7 and remote desktop the IP of the W7 box from XP (but ping doesn't work.)

    Setup:
    Windows 7 Pro 64 (MIKECT4, static IP 192.168.1.151)
    Windows XP Pro SP3 (MIKEPC, static IP 192.168.1.150)
    both versions of Windows fully updated.
    Using WORKGROUP as workgroup name (although I have tried modifying it and it made no difference)
    Firewall/spyware protection temporarily disabled on both machines

    On XP:
    simple file sharing off,
    NetBios enabled.

    On W7:
     NetBios enabled,
    IpV6 disabled (was enabled but previous solutions suggested turning it off),
    network discovery on,
    file and printer sharing on,
    public folder sharing on,
    media streaming on,
    40-56 bit encryption on,
    password protection sharing off,
    windows managing homegroup connections.

    Symptoms:
    On XP:
    W7 box (MIKECT4) is in workgroup view, but shares are not visible
    not pingable by IP or name
    not accessible by \\ip addr or \\MIKECT4
    MIKECT4 visible in NET VIEW

    On W7:
    XP box is not in network folder or in NET VIEW
    pingable by both IP and name
    accessible by \\ip addr
    not accessible by \\name until it is accessed by \\ip addr


    Any suggestions would be appreciated.  I can also supply any additional information that might be needed to diagnose the problem.
    Monday, February 08, 2010 5:04 PM

Answers

  • What "Bubbapcguy's insulting reply"

    scappy you posted
    "3. I don't know how to upgrade the NIC driver." that one line says you are not computer savvy, it is not an insult just an observation.

    millions of us have win 7 networked with everything under the sun, it works just fine. i number of folks with issue is so small it would not even count.

    the simple fact that you had it working for weeks should show you that in fact it is a windows issue, but a hardware / software issue.

    if it where a update all you had to do was remove it or rollback to agood restore point (you do create those.. right)

    You could count on the simple fact that if this was a wide spread issue we would see more techs here posting we do not, we see home users and those with little networking / trouble shooting back ground.

    with 100's of workstsations running windows 7 connecting to anything from server 2000 / 2003 / 2008 / linux / freebsd / novell and not single networking issue that did not take less 20 mins to fix (well not count shipping for the new routers / switchs) I can say with great confidence that windows 7 is very stable and has NO ISSUE what so ever with networking.

    Now YOUR issue can be many things, but the one thing you can rule out is buggy networking on windows 7

    I suggest you read post from other real techs on this forum...cdobbs posting will show the results as I have, networking WORKS.

    incomsrv, I have a windows 7 pro box sitting right here with 5 or more win 7 / vista / xp / linux boxes accessing it day in and day out for months now, not once have I had a disconnect, not once.
    Of course I run all Dell business class PC's and do not allow the users to install anything. No facebook / myspace / youtube.
    • Marked as answer by scrappyreed Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:30 PM
    Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:00 PM

All replies

  •  

    Hi,

     

    Please try the following steps to troubleshoot the issue.

     

    1. Please refer to the following article to allow ICMP protocol on Windows 7 machine.

     

    Allow Pings

     

    Please Note: Microsoft provides third-party contact information to help you find technical support. This contact information may change without notice. Microsoft does not guarantee the accuracy of this third-party contact information.

     

    2. Temporarily disable firewall on each machine.

     

    3. Upgrade the NIC driver on Windows 7 machine.

     

    4. Configure the connection to obtain an IP address automatically

     

    a. Click "Start", input "NCPA.CPL" (without quotation marks) to Start Search bar and press "Enter".

    b. Right-click the network connection and click "Properties".

     

    If you are prompted for an administrator password or confirmation, type the password or provide confirmation.

     

    c. Click to highlight "Internet Protocol Version 6 (TCP/IPv6)" and click "Properties".

    d. Check "Obtain an IP address automatically" and "Obtain DNS server address automatically".

    e. Click "OK".

    f. Click to highlight "Internet Protocol Version 4 (TCP/IPv4)" and click "Properties".

    g. Check "Obtain an IP address automatically" and "Obtain DNS server address automatically".

    h. Click "OK".

    i. Reboot the computer.

     

    Then, please run a ping test again. If the issue persists, please post the ping result here for research.

     

    Thanks,

    Novak

    Wednesday, February 10, 2010 2:00 AM
  • I tried to implement your suggestions.

    1. The link provided is for Vista and the commands and GUI shown are not available in Windows 7.  I exempted ICMP from IPsec in Windows firewall advanced security, though.
    2. Done for domain, private and public.
    3. I don't know how to upgrade the NIC driver.  I did check for an updated driver for the ethernet controller, but the driver was up to date.
    4. I switched the box back to getting the IP address automatically and turned TCP/IPv6 back on.  (These were the original settings.)  The output of ipconfig /all is shown below.

    Ping from the XP box still times out.  Ping to the XP box still works.  One thing did change from my previous post.  Before, I had to access the XP shares by IP address before I could access them by host name.  Now, they are accessible by host name even after a reboot.  However, the network view still does not show the XP hosts until the shares are accessed, and then only on the folder view on the left side, not in the main explorer window.

    c:>ipconfig /all

     

    Windows IP Configuration

     

       Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : mikect4

       Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . : scrappyreed.net

       Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid

       IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

       WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

       DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : scrappyreed.net

     

    Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

     

       Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :

       Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek PCIe FE Family Controller

       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-25-64-DB-44-B5

       DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes

       Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

       Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::4c31:d5dc:fbe5:5f8a%11(Preferred)

       IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.115(Preferred)

       Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0

       Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, February 11, 2010 5:32:31 PM

       Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Friday, February 12, 2010 5:32:31 PM

       Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1

       DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1

       DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 234890596

       DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-12-AB-1C-29-00-25-64-DB-44-B5

     

       DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1

       NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

     

    Tunnel adapter isatap.{BCDE73F0-0140-4F71-9055-FF1179F34289}:

     

       Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected

       Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :

       Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter

       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0

       DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No

       Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

     

    Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

     

       Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :

       Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface

       Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0

       DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No

       Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

       IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 2001:0:4137:9e50:c24:77d:3f57:fe8c(Prefer

    red)

       Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::c24:77d:3f57:fe8c%13(Preferred)

       Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : ::

       NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

     

     

     

    Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:11 PM
  • Hi,

     

    Please also enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP on both computers:

     

    1)   Go to “Control Panel\Network and Internet\Network Connections”.

    2)   Right-Click on the connection and choose Properties.

    3)   Click “Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) Version 4” in the list.

    4)   Click Properties, and then click Advanced.

    5)   On the Advanced TCP/IP settings windows, go to “WINS” tab.

    6)   Under NetBIOS setting, click “Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP”, and then click OK.

     

    Then, please test the issue again. If issue still occurs, please run a ping test on each machine and perform following steps to capture a log file.

     

    Collect the Netmon trace on each machine when running Ping test

    =========================

    a. Download NetMon3.3 from the following website and install it on the computer

     

    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=983b941d-06cb-4658-b7f6-3088333d062f

     

    b. Launch NetMon3.3.

    c. In the Microsoft Network Monitor 3.3 window, click Create a new capture tab …

    d. In the new tab, select all the Network Adapters in the Select Networks window.

    e. Then, switch to Network Monitor, press F5 to start NetMon.

    f. Try to ping the Windows 7 machine from Windows XP machine. When it failed, go to step 7.

    g. Go back to the NetMon window and press F7 to stop the NetMon.

    h. Press Ctrl+S to save the Netmon file named test.

    i. Please repeat above steps on Windows 7 machine.

     

    Then please upload to SkyDrive (www.skydrive.live.com ) and share the link to me.

     

    Thanks,

    Novak

     

    Friday, February 12, 2010 2:59 AM
  • I have already tried changing the workgroup name on each computer and rebooting everything without solving the problem.
    Friday, February 12, 2010 2:30 PM
  • NetBIOS over TCP/IP has been enabled on both computers all along.

    The NetMon trace capture files are in my public folder on SkyDrive.  

    • Edited by scrappyreed Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:18 AM
    Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:45 PM
  • Scrappy, just go to the folder on the skydrive where you have the cap and copy the URL form the browser bar and poaste it here.

    it will something like this...

    http://cid-6023ebece4b51064.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public/utils/network

    Saturday, February 13, 2010 4:54 PM
  • After analyzing the log files, I found that the Windows XP machine can get response from Windows 7 machine when running a Ping test. At this stage, I suggest you restart the each machine to Safe Mode with Networking, and then run a Ping test, access the target machine by UNC name (\\MIKECT4) to check the result.

    Meanwhile, since Windows 7 machine can show in Network folder, we can eliminate the Windows 7 cause. This issue can occur by incorrect Windows XP settings and you may need contact Windows XP support for further assistance. Thank you for your understanding.

    If the issue persists, please collect the error messages and System Information for further research.

    Thanks,
    Novak
    Monday, February 15, 2010 3:12 AM
  • Novak,

    I have to disagree that it is a Windows XP problem as all of the XP to XP network functionality (ping, file sharing, remote desktop) is working correctly between the two XP boxes on the network.  The problem appears to be that W7 is not allowing other hosts to access its filesystems, either in safe mode or normal mode.  I am able to ping the W7 box when it is in safe mode.  I constructed the following chart to summarize the results.  The network monitoring captures with safe mode on are available at http://cid-09bb1b0176c1d099.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public?uc=2&isFromRichUpload=1.

     

    Host OS ->

    Remote OS

    Ping

    File

    Share

    Remote

    Desktop

    XP* -> XP*

    ü

    ü

    ü

    XP* -> 7

    X

    X

    ü<sup>2</sup>

    XP* -> 7SM

    ü

    X

    NA

    7 -> XP

    ü

    ü<sup>1</sup>

    ü

    7SM -> XP

    ü

    ü

    ü

    7 -> XPSM

    ü

    ü<sup>1</sup>

    NA

    7SM -> XPSM

    ü

    ü

    NA

     

    Codes:

    ü - works correctly

    X – doesn’t work

    NA – not applicable

    {XP,7}SM – XP or W7 safe mode with networking

    XP* - XP both in normal mode and safe mode with networking

    1-      File sharing works, but remote hosts are not visible in Network Explorer window.

    2-      Works by IP, but not by UNC name

    Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:04 PM
  • do you have SP3 on all the xp boxes

    do you have a linux (samba server) box on the network, older OS's (98 / ME)

    computers showing in the network map without a wins server is hit and miss

    samba acting as the wins server will give unknown results, older OS thinking thet are the master browser will also cause issues.
    Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:11 PM
  • Bubbapcguy wrote:

    > do you have SP3 on all the xp boxes

    Yes

    > do you have a linux (samba server) box on the network, older OS's (98 / ME)

    No.  The network is two XP boxes, both upgraded to SP3, one Home the other Pro, and a Windows 7 Pro 64bit box.  All file and print sharing worked fine for about the first month after I installed the W7 box until something changed (Windows Update perhaps?).  The W7 box has never been accessible by UNC name for remote desktop, I have always had to use IP for that.
    Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:11 PM
  • let's try to kill the firewall on the win 7 box
    netsh advfirewall set allprofiles state off

    and if that does not work let's go back over the network settings

    In the Advanced sharing settings page of Network and sharing center, you need to have it set as Work/Home profile.  Try
    Make sure computers are the same workgroup for now (you can change it later)
    Enable network discovery
    Turn on  file and print sharing
    Turn off password protected sharing
    Turn on Use user accounts and passwords to connect to other computers

    The other settings such as encryption I have set as use 128 bit encryption, you may need lower.

    at the win 7 box in the search box input \\pcname where pcname is the name of the win 7 box, does it open and show you the shares?

    I will assume you did not change any user / passwords since the sharing was working right, you are still logging the with same user / password as when it worked right??

    Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:47 PM
  • > let's try to kill the firewall on the win 7 box
    > netsh advfirewall set allprofiles state off

    Done.  A little tricky, but CTL-SHFT-ENTER cmd did the trick.

    > and if that does not work let's go back over the network settings

    > In the Advanced sharing settings page of Network and sharing center, you need to have it set as Work/Home profile.  Try 
    > Make sure computers are the same workgroup for now (you can change it later)
    > Enable network discovery
    > Turn on  file and print sharing
    > Turn off password protected sharing
    > Turn on Use user accounts and passwords to connect to other computers

    > The other settings such as encryption I have set as use 128 bit encryption, you may need lower.

    These are my settings.  I tried both 128 bit and lower encryption without success.

    > at the win 7 box in the search box input \\pcname where pcname is the name of the win 7 box, does it open and show you the shares?

    On the win 7 box, \\pcname opens an explorer window and shows the shares.  

    > I will assume you did not change any user / passwords since the sharing was working right, you are still logging the with same user / password as when it > worked right??

    No users or passwords have changed.  Just for a goof I created a new user with administrator privileges and no password on both boxes and logged in as that user.  Still no luck.

    Thursday, February 18, 2010 3:45 PM
  •  I think....win 7 requires the accounts to have a password, I have never not set a password.
    Thursday, February 18, 2010 3:55 PM
  • It complains if you have an administrator account without a password, but they are allowed.  It doesn't matter since it wasn't the source of the problem anyway.
    Thursday, February 18, 2010 4:07 PM
  • well I am lost here, next step for me would be to replace the NIC, wipe N load the OS
    for you I would suggest a tech look at your box

    Thursday, February 18, 2010 4:10 PM
  • My original thought was to reinstall the operating system if I can't live without file and printer sharing, but I thought I would try this forum first since so many other posts indicate similar problems.   So much for Windows 7 living up to all its hype.  If I have to reinstall the OS, I might as well put XP on it and guarantee that I can share files.
    Thursday, February 18, 2010 5:04 PM
  • If there was nothing wrong w/ Win 7, there wouldn't be so many people w/ this problem. I've been working w/ networks for about 20 years, so I have a reasonable network background. I find your last posting, Bubbapcguy, way out of line.

    After Win 7 was released, I install  Win 7 computers, in a peer-to-peer setup, at a couple of locations. All locations that have Win XP only clients communicating with a Win 7 peer server, there is NO problem. In situations where a Win 7 machine  is installed on a domain, No problems.

    As soon as I installed a Win 7 peer server( it replaced a Win XP peer server that worked fine) in a network that had a mix of Win XP and Win Vista clients, the Win XP clients would loose connectivity to the Win 7 peer server, w/ the Win Vista retaining connected.

    THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE WIN 7 COMPUTER!!

    This was proven by the meens that simply restarting the Win 7 peer server, and the connectivity problem is fixed. There is some setting that times out after periods of inactivity. May be this is the wrong forum to be in. This seems to be as the URL states.. a SOCIAL forum, and not an MS objective help forum. 

    Since this is an ongoing problem w/ many instances of connectivity being dropped, it seems that MS doesent consider lost productivity in the industry an issue. This has belayed any more installed of Win 7 untill there is a true fix/patch for this problem the seems to be growing much larger as the installs progress.

    I have tried changes on both ends with no solution, and I have tried any and all other suggestions that I have seen that look logical in this and other forums.

    Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:37 PM
  • Thank you intcomsrv!  Since taking exception to Bubbapcguy's insulting reply to my last post wouldn't help to solve my problem of allowing my XP computers to access my file and printer shares on my W7 box, I declined to reply to him.  Just to clarify:

    1) If the problem is not with Windows 7, but with the W7 setup, then Dell must be to blame as I am using a pre-installed version of the OS to which I made no changes to default networking setup until I stated trying to solve this problem.  (The problem may be caused by either a Windows update or one of the applications I installed, however I still think the operating system can not be held blameless if either of those were the cause of the problem.)
    2) I never stated I wasn't computer savvy.  In fact, I was a Unix SA while I earned a PhD in Electrical Engineering at an Ivy league school.  Almost all of the suggestions I have received on this forum I had already tried on my own, I was just hoping that someone else had encountered a similar problem with Windows 7 behaving in an undocumented fashion and might know some magic registry or group permission setting that would fix it.

    For now I am going to try to live with one way file sharing from XP to W7 for a while.  If a solution doesn't come along, I guess I will have to try the OS reinstall as painful as that will be.

    Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:03 PM
  • If a solution doesn't come along, I guess I will have to try the OS reinstall as painful as that will be.

    Pre-installed OS's tend to come with bloat-ware ____ that no one ever uses anyway.  At least in my experiences anyway.

    So reinstalling won't really be all that painful. ;)

    **What, cr*p is a curse word?!

    Click Start, click Run..., type "cmd" and hit enter, type "work /now"
    Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:07 PM
  • What "Bubbapcguy's insulting reply"

    scappy you posted
    "3. I don't know how to upgrade the NIC driver." that one line says you are not computer savvy, it is not an insult just an observation.

    millions of us have win 7 networked with everything under the sun, it works just fine. i number of folks with issue is so small it would not even count.

    the simple fact that you had it working for weeks should show you that in fact it is a windows issue, but a hardware / software issue.

    if it where a update all you had to do was remove it or rollback to agood restore point (you do create those.. right)

    You could count on the simple fact that if this was a wide spread issue we would see more techs here posting we do not, we see home users and those with little networking / trouble shooting back ground.

    with 100's of workstsations running windows 7 connecting to anything from server 2000 / 2003 / 2008 / linux / freebsd / novell and not single networking issue that did not take less 20 mins to fix (well not count shipping for the new routers / switchs) I can say with great confidence that windows 7 is very stable and has NO ISSUE what so ever with networking.

    Now YOUR issue can be many things, but the one thing you can rule out is buggy networking on windows 7

    I suggest you read post from other real techs on this forum...cdobbs posting will show the results as I have, networking WORKS.

    incomsrv, I have a windows 7 pro box sitting right here with 5 or more win 7 / vista / xp / linux boxes accessing it day in and day out for months now, not once have I had a disconnect, not once.
    Of course I run all Dell business class PC's and do not allow the users to install anything. No facebook / myspace / youtube.
    • Marked as answer by scrappyreed Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:30 PM
    Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:00 PM
  • Sorry us non-savvy users usually refer to updating the driver.  But, I'll keep that in mind next time I upgrade the next service pack and update to a new OS.

    I'm going to mark your last post as the answer.  As long as I don't "install anything" and am prepared to spend hours rolling back to an undetermined restore point, I'm sure that Windows 7 has great networking.
    Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:30 PM
  • We too have the problem. The XP does not see the W7 in its workgroups and vice versa. Before that file and printer sharing was working but suddenly stopped.
    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 10:31 PM
  • As of a few days, I fight with the very same problem. At first - accessing my workgroup with my new Windows7-PC worked. And suddenly, this was no longer true. I did not change anything, but there were windows updates and I have the suspicion, that since one of these many updates I do have the problem.

    My lan includes several PCs working under windows XP prof, and also a unix system with appache. Windows7 sees the internet - connected to with a Fritz!Box Fon WLAN 7390 and W7 has access to the files on the apache server, but it does not have access to any XP computer. I can however pin these XP PCs from W7 - but not the other way round.

    Even more strange: Sometimes it worked after restarting the w7. Once I even succeeded in connecting shares as network drives from an old PC running W2000. But next time when I started the W7 up, the networkdrive was no longer accessible. 

    I tried lots of things, but the problem persists. Internet ok, apache ok, other windows PC inaccessible. Now I am clueless. Is there any new insight into this problem since early 2010?

    Thanks and best regards - Roe

    Saturday, April 14, 2012 3:56 PM