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Is another person testing FSX (as Flight Simulator X) with Win 7 RC 64 bits?

    Question

  • It seems I am alone and I will be very happy to know other persons testing FSX which is now a simulator near from those which are professional simulators .
    For me it's not a game I am private pilot licenced and my whole real flights are done before upon FSX and some addons of the country where I expect flying.
    Regards.
    Guy

    Saturday, May 16, 2009 4:22 PM

Answers

  • Hi A Worton,
    I only can say I don't know this issue and I think it's necessary to inform the win seven RC staff.
    You can do that from this thread.

    Asking question to Ronnie Vernon.
    Regards.
    Guy
    • Marked as answer by Guy Daubigeon Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:23 PM
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:22 PM

All replies

  • Hi,

    I have use FSX with W7 64. Working without problems, oops one problem: scenery library panel not working properly, I use notepad for scenery managing.

    Mark
    • Proposed as answer by HEHAMHAC Thursday, April 28, 2011 8:26 AM
    • Unproposed as answer by HEHAMHAC Thursday, April 28, 2011 8:26 AM
    Saturday, May 16, 2009 4:55 PM
  • I think you can use Addon scenery but the way is different from XP. With "Add a Zone" select the folder where is your scenery
    First you have to highlight the Addon you want (don't click), then "OK" , then put your mouse  on the blue bar="Name" and left click.
    That's all and you can verify that your scenery is selected in the scenery window panel.
    Regards.
    Guy
    PS; You can't do that if you've choseen for "personalization"= Window classical
    PLS choose  for example window seven basic.
    Saturday, May 16, 2009 6:13 PM
  • Windows 7 64 bit build 7100 Intel q6600 4meg Nvidia 8800

    Guy's suggestion didn't work for me. I tried diferent mouse click settings (single and double click) and display modes but still the same result, no matter whether the required folder label is left/right clicked or selected/highlighted clicking OK/highlighted bar drops the folder down one level which then stops the adding process.

    In other forums I have seen videos of users being able to add scenery by rituals of going in and out of folders, but following their instructions didn't work for me either.

    It would be interesting to know if this happens on 32 or 64 bit installations. Otherwise the solutions being found by people seems quite random and dependent on each computer setup.

    Gordon

    Wednesday, May 20, 2009 2:56 PM
  • I was running Win 7 beta and now win 7 RC on 64 bits . It is abnormal you can't install "addon scenery" your graphic card is a 8800 GTX I suppose?
    I am french and it is possible my english was Bad... I try again and on my other computer which is running Win 7 RC I do what I write;
    1°) First launch fsx,
    2°) Clicking left (one click) on "Parameters",
    3°) Clicking left on "Biblothèque des décors" in English I think it is "Scenery panel"
    4°) A window is now open with different sceneries and the default sceneries are, for the last, named" Decors complémentaire" I think in English something as "Complementary scenery",
    5°) Click left on "add a zone",
    6°) A new window is open showing the FSX folders,
    7°) Click left on "Addon scenery"
    8°) Highlight the folder label you want add (and only highlight),
    9°) Put the pointer of your mouse on "OK" and Left CLick,
    10°) Move your pointer on the blue highlight zone "Name"
    11°) Click left mantaining the pointer on this blue surface.
    Now your scenry is added, if no there is a problem.
    For me it's "OK"
    Regards.
    Guy
    Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:34 PM
  • I haven't tried adding scenery.  I know you're talking about 64-bit, currently I'm running 32-bit.  Do you have any trouble with the top menu during a flight?  If I go into the view menu, and click a few options, FS will restart completely as if I exited and restarted myself.  Any experience with this problem, or solutions?
    Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:16 PM
  • I used Win 7 Beta 32 bits english for 2 weeks before 64 bits and I had not encounter this problem. FSX worked fine but I changed for 64 bits because it was able to recognize more than 3 Go. My Top menu worked fine in windowed mode and also with "alt" in full screen.
    I am searching....You say "if I go into the view menu..."
    OK I am going to launch FSX, I use to go into " "vol libre" I think in English it is "the next after "welcome" or a similar thing ....
    Then I am launching a saved flight,
    I am into window mode and have top menu,
    I click "view" and have a window opened but fsx don't restart.... I can choose the whole menu showed and also during flight.
    Give me more about your configuration computer .....
    Regards.
    Guy
    Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:01 PM
  • Here's more info.  I'm running in full screen.  Turns out that it's not only during the menus.

    I set up for a very quick flight for testing.  Selected Greenwood, Nova Scotia.  DC 3.  First test after setting the parking brake and right clicking to open the pop-up menu, it froze and restarted with default quick flight settings.  Another test, it happened while not only looking at the VIEW menu at the top, but also while just running the mouse back and forth over the menus.  It happenes quite randomly.

    I'm running a Dell, Core 2 Quad, Q6600 (2.4 GHz).  2GB RAM.  NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS 512.  Win7 installed DX 11, so maybe there's a compatibility issue with my video card.  Although nothing really points to that being the problem, as it happens quite random.  I haven't experience any other video problems.

    Thanks for any help,
    Darryl
    Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:13 AM
  • Ho it seems I see why,
    You are running DX 11 am I running DX9 .
    Everywhere they discuss about compatibility between FSX and DX 10 and 11.
    Try to install DX9 and run your flight.....
    Tell me what appens.
    Regards.
    Guy
    Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:11 AM
  • I add something, I also now run DX11 because I get a secondary generation of graphic card but  8800 GTS is  first generation. When I was running 2 8800 GTX it was for me impossible to run DX 10.
    Regards.
    Guy
    Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:15 AM
  • Hello Guy,

    I have followed your instructions, on my computer everything works as your notes up to line 8. On line 9 when OK left clicked the blue highlighted folder opens into its sub folders and there is no way that I can stop it doing that. As previously posted I have tried changing click settings etc. but clearly haven't found the combination that works.

    Judging by posts in other forums, this problem is not just confined to my setup.

    regards
    Gordon

    p.s. the graphics card is an asus 8800gt
    Thursday, May 21, 2009 12:32 PM
  • Most peculiar.

    I am able to add scenery to fsx if I don't use the mouse. i.e. tab through until I can highlight the desired scenery folder, select using the spacebar etc.

    I can also add scenery using the mouse by following the steps 1-8 above then when the installation fails on step 9 use the keyboard tab key repeatedly until the scenery library panel clears.

    I notice that for my HID Compliant mouse the control panel app that selects 1 click drag doesn't work properly and further more in FSX scenery library window the click noise normally heard when a selection is made, doesn't work either.

    I suspect that there must be some kind of mouse driver issue for Windows 7.

    Gordon
    Thursday, May 21, 2009 3:29 PM
  • I think Hovercrafter you're right because I have tried with double click but your system does'nt run for me.
    The space bar on step9 does'nt run also any key on the keyboard......
    My mouse is an Hama mouse optical mouse on USB 2.0. And as you I think the driver for window 7 is different from a mouse to another and does'nt run on the same manner.
    Regards.
    Guy
    Thursday, May 21, 2009 7:55 PM
  • Guy, I tried to install DX9 on Win7 and it appeared to install, but dxdiag is still showing me 11.  I'm not sure how to go about removing 11.  I did another test flight and it did the same thing.  The problem is mostly when I click a top menu, and then hover my mouse back and forth along the different menus until it freezes and restarts.  I'm not familliar with first/second generation, but my card isn't exactly new.  My original card in this computer was a much slower 8300 GS... so I took the 8800 GTS out of my other computer.  Is it possible that a future driver for my video card may allow it to work properly with DX10+ or would I actually need a second generation card?

    Also, could it be just that FSX doesn't run as smoothly with anything above DX9?

    Thanks,
    Darryl
    Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:06 PM
  • Ok Darryl,
    First, I think , you must have un update driver for Nvidia. Do you run presently driver 185.85 from Nvidia?
    If the answer is "no" go here and download the last driver for " GE Force 8 Series ":

    http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us

    Regards.
    Guy
    PS : Now I have a real flight on my airfield LFCD and then I am invited by friends. I will reply this evening.
    Friday, May 22, 2009 6:47 AM
  • I have the latest version 185.85 already installed.  Also when running dxdiag it states DX11, but in the Nvidia control panel, the system info says it's running DX10.

    Darryl
    Friday, May 22, 2009 2:23 PM
  • Hi Darryl coming back from flight.

    Ok you are up to date for driver version and it's normal to have only DX10. Why? because your graphic card does'nt support DX11 and the driver knows that and, of course, does not implement DX11.
    But Have you tried this?:

    1°)Go into FSX
    2°) Parameters,
    3°) Personalize, and a new window comes over the other
    4°) "Display parameters"
    it is the name of the new window,
    5°) On the right side of the new window is the box named "Aperçu de DX10" In English I don't know how translating  "aperçu" it's as "a quick piece of view" or a "view sample"
    If this box has an "X" into delete it and after, your Graphic card is running DX9

    This box is the first one  on the right part of the window.
    Regards.
    Guy
    Friday, May 22, 2009 4:54 PM
  • Guy,

    Thanks for clearing up the DX10 and 11 differences I was seeing.  When you say Parameters and Display Parameters, in English you must be referring to Settings and Display Settings.  But maybe I'm still looking in the wrong spot.  I don't see the DX10 box you mentioned.  I'm including two screenshots, can you confirm whether or not I'm in the right place?  Maybe your version has more options than mine.

    http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=fsx1.b7f.jpg

    http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=fsx2.d3c.jpg

    Friday, May 22, 2009 9:31 PM
  • Hi Darryl,

    Yes you're right it's Settings and Display Settings but also you have'nt the same screen you've three boxes I got 4 boxes see this screenshot:

    http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/baeb1ccd85_45MB

    Conclusion I get more options.
    Also can you re-install your driver 185.85 (I get the same for a 285 GTX CG) but before delete entirely the former 185.85, go to NVIDIA driver site download and install driver 185.85 choosing the right graphic card "8 series".
    Now see if at "Display settings you have 4 boxes if yes tha's good if no send a mail and ask for assistance to technical support NVIDIA I think there is a problem.....
    Regards.
    Guy
    Saturday, May 23, 2009 5:38 AM
  • Hi Guy,

    I reinstalled the 185.85 drivers but that made no difference.  I realized a while back that I did download SP2 for FSX and installed that today.  The forth box is for a preview of DX10 is now visible and it was unchecked by default.  After installing SP2, I tried to "break" it, and I managed to freeze it up again by the same method, although it took a little longer this time.

    Darryl
    Saturday, May 23, 2009 4:22 PM
  • Hi Darryl,

    I had not understood you have'nt SP2, now that's right and you can see the four Boxes and the first one with DX 10 Preview.
    But now if the problem stay, I don't know why?
    Do you know how to make a short install of FSX?
    If you don't tell me Iwill explain.
    But after I think it's better to explain your problem at MS FSX technical support.

    For a short install you need to have in the same folder name "Microsoft Flight Simulator X" about 14 Go Free.

    Regards.
    Guy 
    Saturday, May 23, 2009 4:47 PM
  • I confirm Darryl's issue.

    I have Flight Simulator X SP2 running on Windows 7 RC build 7100 x64

    Core i7 920 d0 stepping
    6GB ram
    ATI 4870 x2

    When clicking / viewing the top menus and the right click menus over and over, FSX crashes and restarts.

    Each crash displays the following in the event viewer:

    Usually: "Faulting module name: uiautomationcore.dll"
    Sometimes: "Faulting module name: unknown"

    The following adjustments do not prevent the crash occuring:

    Running as administrator
    Running DEP mode
    Running in Windows XP SP3 Compatibility mode
    Running in Windows Vista SP2 Compatibilty mode
    Uninstalling Add ons

    I suspect that it has something to do with changes in the UI Automation between Vista and Windows 7.

    =====

    I also confirm the other bug in this thread: Adding Scenery Library, and the corresponding workaround.
    Sunday, May 24, 2009 6:11 PM
  • W.R.T. the menu crashing issue, I have discovered that it is a problem on other platfroms as well.

    Moving my fsx install folder and doing a repair has removed the issue, installing sp1 on it has not reintroduced so I now assume that it's either the result of some corruption, sp2 or the result of add on(s).
    Sunday, May 24, 2009 8:10 PM
  • Hi All,
    Very please to see that it seems A Worton has found the problem to his side.
    So, I think first for Darryl : try as A Worton to make a repair and tell us what happens.
    Secondly, it seems also that for some computer addon Scenery Library has a bug.
    And for Final I don't think it's a good idea to transfer this thread to "Discussin for Microsoft Simulation" as asked by Ronnie Vermont.

    And I think it's a Win 7 problem which has to be modified to solve these problems.........

    So for that I tell you to write on this thread you want the Win 7 team look at these problems here:

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itprogeneral/thread/1be249f6-8a56-44e3-ba86-5a6f61531145/
    Monday, May 25, 2009 6:32 AM
  • Sorry Ronnie Vernon.
    regards.
    Guy
    Monday, May 25, 2009 8:04 AM
  • Hi again,

    I have not put on this thread another little problem with FSX. This problem comes from sounds.....
    Under Win XP-PRO and FS9 sounds were good but since Vista you have a lot of parasites as "scratches" and I see that they are most important when you are near from ground and over vegetation (For example 1000ft QNH over woods).

    But since one week the scratches desappeared from FSX under Win 7 vista using the last Nvidia driver 185.85
    Did you see same thing on your computers?

    Regards.
    Guy
    Monday, May 25, 2009 8:49 AM
  • Thanks for the info Guy and A Worton.  Just a note as well, I had this problem prior to installing SP2, so it could be corruption.  I haven't tried repairing yet, going to do that now.  I'll let you know how it turns out.

    Darryl

    Monday, May 25, 2009 1:25 PM
  • A Worton, I have tried your solution on my system but was unsuccessful.  I removed SP2, and did the repair.  On testing, I set up a free flight out of Greenwood, NS, but I'm sure starting postion doesn't matter.  Typically I take it up to 2000 ft, turn around and land for my testing.  I also open a second window with outside/spot view.  I abuse the top menus before takeoff, during flight and after landing.  It seems that at that point sitting on the runway, the menus have finally taken enough punishment and that's when it freezes.  Maybe it just takes a while before whatever is happening to kick in and stop it.

    I ran into another issue after the repair with scenery.  A cfg for 115...?  I might just have to reinstall completely.

    Darryl
    Monday, May 25, 2009 2:26 PM
  • Hi Darryl,
    You can keep your own fsx safe if you have about 14 Go on the same folder.
    I explain, when you run a new install first you install FSX in a folder named "Microsoft Flight Simulator" but also you modify your "register base".

    Now proceed like that: (I think in folder "Microsoft Games")

    1°) Rename your actual folder "Microsoft Flight Simulator" as "Microsoft Flight SimulatorBackup"

    2°) Create a new folder named "Microsoft Flight Simulator"

    3°) Run a new install of FSX in this folder, in fact it is not the folder FSX which is important but the register base which is modified and if in the first install there is a bug in the register base this bug is now erased and replaced by a new modification of the register base.

    But for you it is also necessary to install after FSX, SP1 and SP2 FSX in the new "Microsoft Flight Simulator" folder and launching this new FSX to see if the bug has disapeared.
    If yes may be it is the FSX program, or it will be also the register base and to be sure you have to rename the new FSX in "Microsoft Flight SimulatorBackup2" and to rename "Microsoft Flight SimulatorBackup" as "Microsoft Flight Simulator"
    And you run your former FSX under the new register base and you are able to say if there is no bug that it was your register base which had a bug.
    Tell us the result...
    Regards.
    Guy 
    Monday, May 25, 2009 3:16 PM
  • I have forgotten: you must activate the new install of FSX you've done and do that when running the new install of FSX
    Monday, May 25, 2009 3:20 PM
  • I have done another little mistake : By default your folders are named "Microsoft Flight Simulator X" also all my folders named "Microsoft Flight Simulator" and "Microsoft Flight SimulatorBackup"and "Microsoft Flight SimulatorBackup2"
    Are exactly with a space and an "X" after simulator and the suit without change.
    Monday, May 25, 2009 6:56 PM
  • Suit=rest Sorry!!
    Monday, May 25, 2009 7:00 PM
  • Hi all,


    This is a copy I have send to Ronnie Vernon for information:

    <Hi Ronnie I am very desappointed because you've said I must go to "Discussions in Simulator support"

    I had done that but to see that the public is in majority Gamers but not Simmers and it is not the same thing.
    Here is my thread
    :
    http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.simulators&mid=2b49ddf8-e33d-4a09-8427-89e003df2878
    They are not interested by Win7 RC, the proof is that only one man was interested and in fact only curiosity because they do'nt test Win 7 RC.

    Conclusion : I am staying on the miscallaneous thread of win 7 RC because here are some Simmers who want to see how FSX is running under Win 7 RC.

    I think you will be OK with me because I think also FSX is not the last version for Simmers!!

    Best regards.
    Guy>
    Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:38 AM
  • You are not alone with this problem.

    I have installed Windows 7 + FSX three times now, no addons, no modifications, just clean installs with different compatibility settings on the setup file and the fsx.exe, but the problem with uiautomationcore.dll persists. The game run fine, but after a certain number of menu accesses (including right-click context menu), FSX crashes with a "Fatal Error".

    Tried all available drivers, same result. Tried a different graphic card (ATI), same problem.

    My specs: Asus P5E QX9650 nVidia 9800GT, 4GB RAM
    Wednesday, May 27, 2009 3:46 PM
  • I'd like to add that I am also getting the 'uiautomationcore.dll' Crash To Desktop problem, and as described above, and it does appear to be connected to the amount of menu use, or right click activity while the sim is running.

    I'm running Win7 x64 and FSX + Acceleration (SP2). Still using the 181.72 drivers as the 185's gave me poor performance with alot of stuttering.

    Hardware: Asus Rampage Formula, QX9550, nVidia 8800GTX, 8GB RAM
    Wednesday, May 27, 2009 8:52 PM
  • Hi I apologize because I am not able to give you help about these issues I run fsx SP1 and SP2 under win 7 RC without problem only some FSX restarts but not very important.
    And I add that I am a member of IVAO and the whole free programs of this organization run well as ATC and as pilot.

    But it seems looking at different forums that numerous problems come from "Acceleration pack" do you think I am not wrong?
    Regards.
    Guy
    PS I think it is possible to deinstall "Acceleration pack" and then (they are free) to install first SP1 then SP2 to see..... because if I am wrong it's not difficult to reinstall "Acceleration pack"
    Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:00 PM
  • I can confirm that the 185.85 are unusable -- horrible stuttering on the 8800 and 9800 card series (seem to work fine on newer cards). However, even with the newest 185 uiautomation does crash.

    Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:15 PM
  • It has nothing to do with the SP1, SP2 and Acceleration.

    I can replicate the uiautomationcore.dll crash without any SP, with SP1, SP2 ... any combination. Any screen resolution ....

    Guy are you using x64 or the 32-bit version?
    Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:16 PM
  • Hi Abulaafia,

    As it is said in this thread I am using now only 64 bits.

    But I am not sure the problem is here and also from "acceleration pack"

    As you said probably problems come from the fact your graphic cards are ancients because I get newer cards and I have not same problems.
    Regards.
     Guy

    PS: I think it is a real problem and I am asking Help from Ronnie Vernon......
    Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:15 PM
  • The uiautomationcore problem has been reported on different cards, including the 9800 and the 4870, both hardly "ancient" cards. :-(
    Friday, May 29, 2009 12:20 AM
  • Abulaafia thanks for information.
    Regards.
    Guy

    Hi Ronnie have you read what's upon?
    Friday, May 29, 2009 7:33 PM
  • Everyone reporting the uiautomationcore error, could you pls. report the following:

    1. Do you have FSX installed in the Default directory under Program Files?
    2. Have you changed the ownership of the FSX program folder at any point?
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:48 AM
  • Hi abulaafia,

    Answering to your questions:
    1°) No FSX is installed on another disk and also on its own partition named H:( But path is the same as ; H:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X) And to be complete I get 2 Licences FSX and I have gave to partition H:\ the name of first Key of this licence.
    2°) I don't understand very well your second question, I understand is the path and names of folder the same at any point:
    Answer; Yes I think because it is explained upper.

    To be more extensive; Win 7 RC is on another disk and his partition when active is named C:\

    It's why you must, if you have different OS as Vista and XP-PRO, each time installing FSX which may be used by each OS to do a short install to modify the active Disk or partition running OS. Why? Because FSX modifies each Register base of each OS.
    Regards.
    Guy
    PS: Sorry for English, yes it's "ancient" and not "ancients"
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:09 AM
  • 1. Yes
    2. I believe I did so in Vista before I upgraded, if by ownership you mean right clicking the folder, choosing properties and then permissions so on.

    Are you on to something?
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:19 AM
  • Hi Max,
    For second point I think I understand now and my answer is NO I don't have right click the folder, no I don't choose properties and no I don't change permission but I use Win 7 RC and run it as My name and parameter as administrator but not by right clicking and choosing in properties "run as administrator"
    Regards .
    Guy
    PS ; My last reply is a comparative between Vista and Win 7 RC running same FSX and same parameters
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:20 PM
  • Hi all,
    Here is a comparative between Vista and Win 7 RC the twice running same FSX.

    First a DR 400 well known in France starting at LFCD and a VFR flight around Bassin d'Arcachon with an addon scenery proceeding from Occitania VFR X. The parameters for FPS as "illimited ", Filter as "Anisotropic" etc.... etc are identical for same flight the fist in Vista the second Win 7 RC.

    Secondly a Training IFR with a PMDG MD 11 starting at LFBD 23 and then ils 23 with same parameters and identical flight in Vista and then in Win 7 RC

    Measurement:( see my computer here:PS it's an assembly computer:

    Proc = Intel core 2 Duo E 8600,
    Ram= 6Go PC 6400 800 MHZ
    2 x 285 Graphic cards,
    1 box Matrox triple head digital edition,
    3 monitors 19" on the fisrt 285 GTX connected to Matrox and giving a 145
    160° view of 3D panel of an aircraft and the scenery view (3840 x 1024),
    2 monitors 19" on the second 285 GTX to have for one monitor 1280 x1024 on
    upper for overhead panel of a liner or gps of an vfr aircraft. And the second
    monitor 1280 x1024 at bottom for gauges as wanted or necessary.
    The graphic cards can't be in SLI.)

    1°) With DR400 VFR:
    Vista full screen:

    Park position            = 32 to 35 FPS
    Taking off                = 24 to 36 FPS
    Going to Birds Island =28 to 42 FPS

    Win 7 RC full screen:

    Park position            = 56 to 65 FPS
    Taking off                = 35 to 55 FPS 
    Going to Birds Island =35 to 55 FPS



    2°) With PMDG MD11  Freighter IFR :

    Vista full screen:

    Park position             = 11 to 13 FPS
    TWY S                      = 10 to 20 FPS
    TWY P                      = 10 to 18 FPS
    HP A                        = 20         FPS

    Flying cruise level FL70

    Cockpitt 3D view       = 25 to 41 FPS
    Obs aircraft               = 33 to 45 FPS

    ILS 23

    CI 23                        = 7.7 to 09 FPS
    FI 23                         = 7.5 to 8.5 FPS
    Treshold                    = 07  to 11 FPS
    TWY P                       = 08  to 12 FPS
    TWY S                       = 10 to 16  FPS


    Win 7 RC full screen:

    Park position             = 16 to 19 FPS
    TWY S                      = 12 to 29 FPS
    TWY P                      = 11 to 22 FPS
    HP A                        = 25         FPS

    Flying cruise level FL70

    Cockpitt 3D view       = 21 to 47 FPS
    Obs aircraft               = 45 to 67 FPS

    ILS 23

    CI 23                        = 9.6 to 13 FPS
    FI 23                         = 10 to 15 FPS
    Treshold                    = 09 to 15 FPS
    TWY P                       = 10 to 17 FPS
    TWY S                       = 13 to 23 FPS


    Conclusion; Win 7 RC is Better than Vista for VFR and IFR minimum is about 15% and can be 40% in best conditions.
    For me as we said in french "il n'y a pas photo" I will choose for my FSX Win 7 ultimate when it will be ready!

    Regards.
    Guy


    Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:06 PM
  • Just to check back - the post I made with what appeared to be a fix wasn't. It merely reduced the mean time / number of clicks on menu to occurence.

    In short, the post I made regarding the reinstall to fix does not correct this problem. I still get the same menu crashes on fsx in windows 7 x64 - must be something else.

    1. Do you have FSX installed in the Default directory under Program Files?

    - yes, under program files(x86)

    2. Have you changed the ownership of the FSX program folder at any point?

    - no.
    • Edited by a-worton Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:29 PM
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:23 PM
  • Hi A Worton,
    I only can say I don't know this issue and I think it's necessary to inform the win seven RC staff.
    You can do that from this thread.

    Asking question to Ronnie Vernon.
    Regards.
    Guy
    • Marked as answer by Guy Daubigeon Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:23 PM
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:22 PM
  • HI all

    This is my first post here...

    i have the same problem with the uiautomation.dll module.
    my system is the following

    Cpu :Intel Core2Duo 6750
    MB  : Asus P5B-E
    Mem: Corsair XMS DDR2 800mhz
    HDD: WD 320 GB Sata II OS
    HDD: Maxtor 250GB Sata II FSX
    GPU: eVGA 8800GT OC edition 512MB, 185.85 driver

    OS: Windows XP Pro SP3 32bits & Windows 7 Ultimate RC 64bits

    Answering to abulaafia:

    Everyone reporting the uiautomationcore error, could you pls. report the following:

    1. Do you have FSX installed in the Default directory under Program Files?

    No, on a different HDD on the path d:\games\microsoft games\microsoft flight simulator

    2. Have you changed the ownership of the FSX program folder at any point?

    Yes, i have all rights to W/R


    chears!!
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:04 PM
  • Here is a question to Ronnie Vernon,


    Hi Ronnie,
    It seems some simmers have encountered same issues and it seems to be "uiautomationcore.dll" responsible.


    Have you heard samething?
    And if it is true can you do something?


    May be  the issue proceed from ancient graphic cards but I don't know if it is identical for Nvidia chipset cards and ATI chipset cards?

    Tks for answer and Help Ronnie.

    Regards.
    Guy
    Monday, June 01, 2009 7:10 AM
  • Thanks everyone. There was a small chance that this was permissions related in connection with the default folder. But if people who installed it in the default path are having the problem too, then I am stumped again.

    Merci bien, Guy, for the fantastic comparison, I find the same great increase in fps on my system. Win 7 promises to be marvelous.

    I have yesterday asked a friend to test FSX on his brand new i7 with a 285 GTX card. He his installed the Win 7 RC only three days prior. He too reports the uiautomationcore.dll error, although he says he had to "work the menus for a long time" before it crashed.

    Well I have run out of ideas where to look for an answer. I hope the Win 7 team are on the right track to solving this mystery.


    Monday, June 01, 2009 10:30 AM
  • It's one of those really annoying things. Everything works fine except for this annoying problem! Let's hope a future update or fix can get us going again. Windows 7 has fixed a couple of things with my FSX, especially the menu no longer getting blurry text etc.
    Monday, June 01, 2009 7:51 PM
  • Hi all,
    I want to give you an information, I get testing Win 7 RC with my computer. It's a hardware observation but I think it is important to know that because no noise was made about that meanwhile few words were written about that.

    Yes you know that Nvidia sells the upper graphic card named 295 GTX. It's a graphic card with 2 graphic processors.

    But do you know that Flight Simulator is not able to recognize this 2 processors. Yes indeed it is only capable to recognize 1 of the 2 and it's why presently FPS are divided by 2 and you can't have more FPS with this card than the "Must" for FSX which is : 285 GTX.

    Best Regards.
    Guy
    Friday, June 05, 2009 4:41 AM
  • Hi,
    I have been Win 7 RC on i7 920 @3.8, 6GB ram 1600 triple channel, 9800 GTX+ 1GB, matrox triplehead2go, EX58-UD5 MB, FSX deluxe & acc and have experienced much better performance than my XP64 installation. However, I do have the CTD bug with the menu. I run the triplehead @3840x1024 and on the other output of the 9800 a 1920x1200 24" monitor. Avast AV (but it also CTD without and AV installed).

    It is a very reproducable CTD - default flight in Tribike Friday Harbour, default settings fresh install. Cycle through the AI aircraft using the menu and it will CTD before you see every plane. It will also CTD if you use a serious sim like the PMDG MD-11 in VC which requires a lot of clicking on the screen but hardly any menu access.

    I have tried a format and clean install, removed all CPU options in the bios, removed UAC, DEP, changed the mouse properties to as basic as possible, PS2 mouse etc. It will always CTD if you use the menu or click on the screen often enough. With exactly the same setup on XP64 (on a different HD) it is stable and doesn't suffer this bug.

    For the moment I have gone back to XP64 and sure hope that the bug can be tracked down.

    By the way I am running as a user with admin rights.
    • Edited by maxymaxy Friday, June 05, 2009 7:59 AM
    Friday, June 05, 2009 7:54 AM
  • Hi Maxymaxy,
    I am not sure I have all understood.
    For me it seems you want to use your second DVI output graphic card to connect another monitor. For example the fourth because with Matrox triple head you've yet 3 monitors running as one in 3840 x 1024.
    If it is right, I say again "you can't have another monitor connected on the second DVI output of your only graphic card" An Matrox's ingeneer said to me that was impossible: Matrox box does'nt accept a connection on the second DVI output. If you want to have 3 monitors connected on a matrox box you have to live free the second output of your graphic card.
    However you can have 2 supplementary monitors if:
    1°) Your motherboard accept a second PCI-E output,
    2°) You have bought another graphic card (but with performance inside performance of a 9800 GTX, for example a 9600), this card connected on the second PCI-E connector of your motherboard.
    3°) If you've done 1°) and 2°) you can, on the 9600 for example, connect 2 monitors each one on the DVI's output of this 9600 graphic card.
    Hope this upon can help you.
    Best regards.
    Guy
    Friday, June 05, 2009 7:57 PM
  • HI,

    The TH2GO is connected to one DVI output and the 1920x1200 monitor is connected to the other DVI output of the 9800 GTX+

    I am running the Matrox triplehead2go analog SUCCESSFULLY on the XP64 system 3 19" monitors @ 3840x1024 AND 1 24" monitor @1920x1200 and I can assure you that it runs perfectly in both XP64 and Win 7. I can move aircraft panels seamlessly between ALL the monitors e.g. I can have all the instruments panels open on the 1920x1200 monitor and use the 3 monitors of the TH2GO for the cockpit view.

    The problem is on the Win 7 system ONLY it CTD when I use the menu system too much or click on the screen too much in all other respects FSX runs much better on Win 7 than on XP64.
    Friday, June 05, 2009 11:57 PM
  • For what it is worth, I have read on other forums that it affects mainly SP2 and Acc. but for me it still CTD regardless of what SP are installed (DX9 or DX10).
    Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:06 AM
  • Hi Maxymaxy,

    I have read your last post and asked to Matrox if it is ok or if there is a problem or to solve your issue.
    Under is a copy of the Email I have sent to us:


    PLEASE INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION:
     (1) MAKE/MODEL OR MOTHERBOARD
     (2) OPERATING SYSTEM
     (3) MATROX DRIVER PACKAGE
     (4) DETAILED EXPLANATION FOR CONTACTING US

    Hi,
    It's for a question asked on forum. A boy has an triple head 2go analog edition and says that he can have also on the second DVI output of his Nvidia 9800 GTX + another monitor which runs perfectly with the 3 others monitors associated on the other output DVI of the graphic card to the Matrox box.12 monthes ago an ingeneer of yours had said to me it was impossible to connect on the same graphic card which had a triple head2Go another monitor on the second DVI .
    Is this always exact or no?
    Thanks for answer.
    Best regards.
    Guy
    PS: I think this boy is running Win 7 RC on a computer running proc I7 920:Under are his Emails
    "Hi,
    I have been Win 7 RC on i7 920 @3.8, 6GB ram 1600 triple channel, 9800 GTX+ 1GB, matrox triplehead2go, EX58-UD5 MB, FSX deluxe & acc and have experienced much better performance than my XP64 installation. However, I do have the CTD bug with the menu. I run the triplehead @3840x1024 and on the other output of the 9800 a 1920x1200 24" monitor. Avast AV (but it also CTD without and AV installed).

    It is a very reproducable CTD - default flight in Tribike Friday Harbour, default settings fresh install. Cycle through the AI aircraft using the menu and it will CTD before you see every plane. It will also CTD if you use a serious sim like the PMDG MD-11 in VC which requires a lot of clicking on the screen but hardly any menu access.

    I have tried a format and clean install, removed all CPU options in the bios, removed UAC, DEP, changed the mouse properties to as basic as possible, PS2 mouse etc. It will always CTD if you use the menu or click on the screen often enough. With exactly the same setup on XP64 (on a different HD) it is stable and doesn't suffer this bug.

    For the moment I have gone back to XP64 and sure hope that the bug can be tracked down.

    By the way I am running as a user with admin rights."

    And here his second Email saying that he can have 3 monitors associated to Matrox box and another associated on the second DVI output of his 9800 GTX+:
    "HI,

    The TH2GO is connected to one DVI output and the 1920x1200 monitor is connected to the other DVI output of the 9800 GTX+

    I am running the Matrox triplehead2go analog SUCCESSFULLY on the XP64 system 3 19" monitors @ 3840x1024 AND 1 24" monitor @1920x1200 and I can assure you that it runs perfectly in both XP64 and Win 7. I can move aircraft panels seamlessly between ALL the monitors e.g. I can have all the instruments panels open on the 1920x1200 monitor and use the 3 monitors of the TH2GO for the cockpit view.

    The problem is on the Win 7 system ONLY it CTD when I use the menu system too much or click on the screen too much in all other respects FSX runs much better on Win 7 than on XP64."

    Saturday, June 06, 2009 4:30 AM
  • Hi Maxymaxy,

    Before answer from Matrox I have tested what you've said and effectively you can have a 4th monitor on the secon DVI output of your graphic card. The other DVI output connected to matrox box.
    I get a 285 GTX graphic card and it runs perfectly indeed.
    I have some photos of that but I don't know how to insert in this post: is anybody knowing how?


    But I must say that I don't encounter your CTD problem......

    PS: only idiots don't change their mind......
    Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:25 AM
  • Hi,
    This link is the place where you can see that FSX is not able to run more than one graphic processor of 295 GTX CG:

    http://computershopper.com/graphics-cards/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-295
    Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:33 AM
  • Maxymaxy is right, you can have another monitor on the second DVI output of your graphic card.

    Accordingly to this fact and this which means that FSX does'nt recognize the 2 processors of 295 GTX I will test the configuration under to see if there is a significant increase in FPS:

    Motherboard: Asus Striker II Formula NF 780i/sk775/DDR2/3 slots PCI-E 16 X/ATX
    Processor Intel Core 2 Duo E8600- 3.33ghz/6Mo/SK775
    Ram 6Go PC 6400 800 MHZ
    1200 W or 1000 W Be quiet
    2 x 285 GTX graphic cards in SLI
    Matrox triple head 2Go Digital edition to connect on the first DVI output, of the 2 graphic cards in SLI, 3 monitors 19",
    One monitor 19" (the 4th) connected on the second DVI output of the 2 graphic cards in SLI,
    One monitor 19" (the 5th) connected on a 9600 Nvidia graphic card plugged into the third  slot PCI-E 16 X of the motherboard.
    That's all and I will tell you the result.
    Best Regards.
    Guy
    Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:34 PM
  • PS: configuration upper seems to accept another monitor on the second DVI output of Nvidia 9600.
    Or possible to connect the 4th monitor on second DVI output NVidia 9600 to have alone Matrox on the SLI cards with 3 monitors to see if there is an increase in FPS.....
    Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:42 PM
  • I am having the same problem with FSX with the Acceleration expansion pack and Windows 7. After browsing the menu (either the right click menu or the menu at the top of the screen) a few dozen times the game will crash and restart. The problem is cited as uiautomationcore.dll.

    This problem needs fixed!
    Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:34 AM
  • Hi Batdams,

    I have read your post and you've seen I have sent a message to Ronnie Vernon but to this time he is always dumb and I don't get any information about an answer upon this file :uiautomationcore.dll
    And you give us another confirmation that this file seems to give an error running Win 7 RC with FSX.

    May be Ronnie is not present, may be in holidays.....

    Regards.
    Guy

    Ps: can, the simmers who have this issue say if they are all running "Acceleration expansion pack"?
    Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:37 AM
  • I do not use Acceleration
    The error happens with the default RC, with SP1 and with SP2
    Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:48 AM
  • Another thing about uiautomationcore.dll:

    All of those who have this issue say they have CTD but nobody says about How long time they get their CTD:

    Is it 1 Hour, 2 hours, 1 minute, 10 minutes?

    Also I ask a question:

    Please Post and say; after how long time you've get CTD?
    Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:57 AM
  • Hi Guy,

    It happens with me while running SP1 or SP2.  I do not have the acceleration expansion.

    I'm not sure on the timings exactly, but I'd say within 10 min usually.  I take-off, reach about 2000 ft, turn around and prepare for an approach.  About a minute after landing is when the top menus have taken enough mouse action.  I don't do it constantly the whole time, but by using that method, I really can't go past 10 minutes.

    Darryl
    Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:08 PM
  • Hi,
    OK now I want to make fot team Win 7 RC a synthetisis of some problems using FSX under Win 7 RC:

    1°)Kneeboard issue: It seems that for some of us Kneeboard does'nt run because IE8 gives a black screen in the window "kneeboard"
    2°)When you call a save position of an aircraft in windowed mode you are obliged to move a little bit the different windows to have a good view in this window. (this issue was existing in Vista)
    3°)Sounds: until driver 185.85 sounds were very bad with "scratches", now it seems to be repared.
    4°)I don't understand why in Win 7 Beta the zooming was at 1 for a normal view and increasing zoom until 2.50 and decreasing to 0.30 what was very good for us.  Now in Win 7 RC the normal view is at 0.30 and zooming up to 512 but you can't have from normal view because it is at 0.30 (instead of 1) decreasing zoom from 1 to 0.30?
    4°) Uiautomationcore.Dll seems to be a real problem with CTD about 10 mins in FSX
    5°) Scenery panel seems to work or not to work depending of configuration you have
    6°) It seems that ancient graphic cards are not able to support new Nvidia drivers and do not run well win 7
    I think I am exhaustive for this thread and other mine but it's not the end......
    This thread continue..................
    Regards.
    Guy
    Sunday, June 07, 2009 2:37 PM
  • I forgot,

    7°) Impossible to have another flight using "taking end of this flight" and then "launch" a new flight for exemple with another Aircraft.
    If you do that  you get a message: as " FSX error" shutting down and "FSX restart".
    Sunday, June 07, 2009 4:11 PM
  • Hi Guy,

    In your point 4, the CTD on my setup doesn't always give the reason. It is possible to crash FSX in less than a minute if you are fast with the mouse :) IMHO it is the clicking on the screen which causes the CTD ...it doesn't matter whether you are using the menu (which is clicking on the screen) or clicking on buttons on the virtual/2D cockpit it will CTD. If you are able to set actions to shortcuts you can avoid CTD ... but as soon as you start clicking you will sooner or later CTD.

    Exactly the same hardware/software works perfectly stable on XP64. So it might be the Nvidia driver or the OS causing the problem.
    Monday, June 08, 2009 11:01 AM
  • Hi Maximaxi,

    Ten minutes is an average compared to a 2 or 4 hours flight. For me the CTD within 10 mins seems to proceed as you said from CG driver or The OS. Now it seems you can have for Win 7 RC a new NVIDIA driver 186.10 WHQL install it and try and tell us ......
    Regards.
    Guy
    Monday, June 08, 2009 2:57 PM
  • Hi all,
    In front of Ronnie's silence,
    under is a copy I sent to Mister Vernon in micellaneous thread:

    Hi Mister Ronnie Vernon,

    If I understand a little bit English you're MVP moderator and I ask you some questions without answer from you for 9 days.
    I am desapointed and I think it's not very correct because we are testing Win 7 RC under FSX giving you a lot  of remarks to make win 7 better and we get silence.......
    Regards.
    Guy
    Tuesday, June 09, 2009 8:27 AM
  • I find CTD only happens when using the right-click mouse menu or main menu at least 20-30 times. It does not happen AT ALL unless I use the menus. I have completed almost 100 hours of long-haul flights now without problems. But as soon as I access the menus too much, Win7/FSX crashes.

    I have tried this with different nvidia cards, drivers, and even ATI cards. It happens with all cards and driver versions.
    Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:38 PM
  • Hi Abulaafia,
    I don't see in your different Emails if you are running FSX in windowed mode or in full screen. In Win 7 RC what is good  with "ALT + Enter" is you can pass from windowed mode to full screen or full screen to windowed and you see if you've save your flight that the windows keep their tall.

    Now have you tried to see if you CTD in the twice mode?
    TKS.
    Regards.
    Guy
    PS: if you are in full screen and you don't have the menu bar push "alt" on your keyboard.
    Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:51 PM
  • hello,

    I read your posts the for first time. The problem with crashing because of this dll-file is a new one for me. And I didn't read anything about this in german foren. I flying with a german FSX, not a US or english one. Perhaps the reason is here to be find?

    regards Kai
    Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:57 PM
  • Hello Kai-Uwe-WeiB

    Thanks for help but Idon't think it's because you have another langage for FSX. Mine is a French language for FSX and also I don't have this issue perhaps you're right: is another person running a french or a german FSX or a foreign language different from English or US having CTD as this we describe here?

    Regards.
    Guy
    Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:03 AM
  • I'm anxiously watching this thread in hopes there is a solution. Very frustrating that something so rudimentary as clicking on a menu causing this crash. But amazed that everything else in FSX is stable.
    I too am having the same problems as described. Intermittent CTD in full-screen or window mode when clicking menu items.
    Sometimes I can get by using the keyboard short-cuts and navigating the menus with the arrow keys but some items do require a click.
    FWIW one thing I have noticed because I am using a trackball, as long as I don't move the ball when I click it doesn't crash or at least much less often.

    My setup:
    Win 7 x64 RC1, QX9650, 4GB, 8600GT, FSX SP3
    Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:09 AM
  • Hi all,
    For those who are interested by the beginning of FSX under Win 7 RC here are the whole threads speaking of issues:

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Search/en-US/?Refinement=112&query="FSX"&rq=meta:Search.MSForums.GroupID(6acaa43a-f435-41fb-b68a-b44ccab4c2f4)&rn=All+Windows+7+Forums

    Regards

    Guy
    Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:09 AM
  • Hi all,
    For those who are interested in the beginning of FSX under Win 7 RC look here and you have the whole issues of the MS forum Win seven RC speaking about.

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Search/en-US/?Refinement=112&query="FSX"&rq=meta:Search.MSForums.GroupID(6acaa43a-f435-41fb-b68a-b44ccab4c2f4)&rn=All+Windows+7+Forums


    Regards.
    Guy
    Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:12 AM
  • it happens windowed and full screen, regardless
    Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:52 AM
  • Ok Abulaafia, read it.
    Now last Monday I received this Email from NVIDIA (8th may 2009):

    Nouveaux pilotes disponibles !
    Téléchargez les derniers pilotes pour votre système d’exploitation sur www.nvidia.fr/drivers.

    GeForce (186.10 WHQL) - Windows 7


    But in fact if you go to their site you can only see driver 185.85 edited 06th may 2009 but not 186.10 to download, it seems they have a problem.........

    Regards.
    Guy
    Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:59 PM
  • Hi Guy

    i'm using the lastest nvidia beta driver http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7_winvista_64bit_186.08_beta.html, but still some CTD, the funny part no one is related to the dll we are talking about, some are with a "unknow" module, some time FSX crash with out any fault module, but all the CTD is always the consecuense of the menu or right-menu clicking, using the ALT key and the arrows for navigation over the menu not cause the problem, or clicking over the panel, is only for Menu or right-menu clicking.

    Chears
    • Edited by Gosegura Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:50 PM wrong link
    Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:49 PM
  • I would like to add I am also having this problem with clicking on menus causing a crash. My system is:

    ATI Radeon 4670 512MB Graphics
    Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200 o/c to 3.32Ghz
    4GB DRR2 800Mhz RAM
    Windows 7RC Build 7100 x64
    Flight Simulator X Deluxe Edition with SP2

    I do not have the Acceleration pack. I have the problem in Windowed and Full Screen. Until a fix is properly found, I am adding a XP partition to play FSX.
    Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:33 PM
  • Now I hope someone of the Win7 RC will read these posts.....

    Regards.
    Guy
    Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:04 PM
  • no man is an island - we're all peninsulas (J Airplane 1967)

    See my post on vista 7 installation. I have a dual boot vista premium 32bit and Win 7 64bit. Getting the system to work was painful but eventually possible - Performance rating of computer went up from 5.6 to 5.8, FSX looks brighter and runs a little better with Win 7 BUT after an hour - say San Juan PR to St Thomas USVI on a Cessna 172- the whole system ejects me without warning and crashes to a black screen. Sharkbait.
    Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:42 PM
  • hello again,

    yesterday I flew from YMHB to YMML with the CS757-200, only in the VC. I clicked about 50 times or more during the flight and I used the menus. Nothing crashed in any way! I believe its the english version of FSX which makes trouble. I can't compare because I only fly with the german one. Sorry.

    regards Kai
    Friday, June 12, 2009 8:51 AM
  • Hi Kai

    I dont think is a language issue, i have the spanish version, and i have the problem with the dll to, i can do a 7 hours fly without problem, but if i start to click in the menu... in 20 clicks, crash...

    i hope someone in Microsoft read this tread, so we can get a solution soon

    chears

    Friday, June 12, 2009 4:49 PM
  • Hi there,

    I can confirm that the problem is not related to the language of FSX, I'm using the german version on 7/64bit and got the same problem.
    So far I tried renaming and repairing FSX (see dome posts above), re-installing it with no result.
    I'm using FSX with Acc pack, vanilla installation (of FSX).
    Although for me its kinda funny, the only game causing problem with Win 7 comes from MS.

    Best regards
    Sunday, June 14, 2009 4:26 PM
  • Hi,

    Here is an answer to Maxymaxy about Matrox's Box.

    This afternoon I had a call with technicians and commercial women at Matrox Montréal.

    Explaining that we are able to have another monitor on the second DVI output of the graphic card and it's why we can have 4 monitors; 3 connected to the Matrox box with the first DVI output of the graphic card and the 4th connected to the second DVI output of the graphic card. And I add if you have a second graphic card but different in the other Slot PCI Express and your computer (Alim and Proc) supports you can add two monitors For me I run 5 monitors.

    The answer of both was; Yes we have heard that it was possible with other Graphic cards but with ours our answer is : "not supported"
    It's Why I say my graphic cards are Twintech cards (GF 285 GTX and 9600 GT)

    And Maxymaxy if you could give your(s) it will be interesting....

    Regards.
    Guy

    Monday, June 15, 2009 4:40 PM
  • Just a question

    anyone has try to install FSX in compatibility mode, i mean run the setup.exe in windows xp sp3 or windows vista sp1 compatibillity mode... just a idea


    chears!!
    Tuesday, June 16, 2009 6:32 AM
  • Yes, same problem with compatibility install and/or comp settings for the fsx.exe executable.


    Thanks everyone who is taking the time to sign up and report the error!!!
    Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:58 AM
  • hi Abu

    maybe i dont explain my self good, i'm talking about the installation program.... maybe, just maybe the problem come from the installation, lastnight i try to install NIS2009 but the first time i have troubles with the installation, but i think, maybe with the compatibility should work, and yes, i can install NIS2009 without problem... so i think, FSX need to be installed on compatibility mode, not the fsx.exe program, the setup.exe when u are installing.

     

    chears!!

    Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:43 PM
  • Hi Cosegura,
    I have not experimented what you say. If I undestand well you are saying that it is possible to install FSX in compatibility mode. This signifies first you run under Win 7 RC Xp-PRO for example in compatibility mode and when you have you install fsx. I think it runs but you lost the benefit to run it with an OS more performant and you lost for example possibility to have it under DX10 etc etc....
    Regards.
    Guy
    Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:51 PM
  • Has anyone updated the .Net framework?
    Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:33 PM
  • Tried updating to .net 4.0 beta 1, didn't fix a thing.
    Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:05 AM
  • as I said, I have installed mine with compatibility for XP SP3, and the  menu crashes still happen
    Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:04 AM
  • Hi All,

    Caution!!! But if you want to put the mess on your Hard Drive you can run Acronis Disk Durector and also true image.
    Regards,
    Guy
    Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:59 AM
  • Ive the same problem myself.  Thought at first it was my computer due to it being 2 years old.

    FSX loads correctly and the flight will run but if I start clicking on any of the menu's then FSX will crash bringing up the error.

    Ive tried various solutions with no success.

    Hopefully someone from Microsoft will read this and a solution will be found.
    Monday, June 22, 2009 1:30 PM
  • It seems I am alone and I will be very happy to know other persons testing FSX which is now a simulator near from those which are professional simulators .
    For me it's not a game I am private pilot licenced and my whole real flights are done before upon FSX and some addons of the country where I expect flying.
    Regards.
    Guy


    I'm also testing (using) it with Win 7 RC 64 bits and it seems to work fine
    jfri
    Monday, June 22, 2009 11:57 PM
  • Hi All,
    I am coming back after a test for a sales shop which has also a website ( http://www.cybertek .fr ).
    I was thinking : " IF FSX can't recognize 2 graphic  processors as NVIDIA 295 GTX maybe it is possible that FSX see only one processor instead of 2 when running SLI?"

    Also someone of us (Maximaxi see upon) was saying that we can have four monitors connected on the same graphic card using Matrox triple head. And I confirm with its and mine graphic card it is possible.

    So, the idea was to test a configuration with 2 big graphic cards in SLI as Nvidia GF 285 GTX, a motherboard able  to have 3 PCI-E slots to have another graphic card as (for example) Nvidia 7600 GT.

    Why a little graphic card? 2 reasons:
    First Because it is not necessary for a single monitor (The 5th) to have a big graphic card.
    Secondly and it will be the principal reason : because you don't have possibility to put for example an higher graphic card as NVIDIA 9600 GT because fan and screws make it very big and it is not possible to connect it in the third slot PCI-E.

    For that, I was thinking: if this configuration runs we can have on the three monitors driven by Matrox a very significant increase in FPS.

    Unfortunately FSX see SLI with 2 graphic processors and instead of an increase you see a decrease in FPS compared to an alone  graphic card with one processor as GF 285 GTX.

    Yes a decrease!!
    I don't know why but it's a fact!

    Regards.
    Guy

    Conclusion FSX is only able to see one graphic processor. And I confirm, actually Nvidia  GF 285 GTX is one of the bigger graphic card possible for FSX. (I don't know ATI graphic card but if someone know; that will be a good thing to share with us his knowledge)
    Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:27 PM
  • Hi,
    Is somebody knowing when and prices announced to sale Win 7 RC basic, familial, professional and ultimate and differences between them?
    Thanks a lot for reply.
    Regards.
    Guy
    Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:34 PM
  • I forget to say in 64 bits
    Guy
    Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:35 PM
  • Hello,

    I have a small community of friends and co-workers at my computer store and most of us are testing FSX on Windows 7.  We also use FSView and various other applicaitons that link up with FSX.  We run most of the custom software in compat mode under windows vista sp2 and it works fine.

    Contact me if you want our setup configs and what not. 
    Saturday, June 27, 2009 1:54 AM
  • Hi everyone,

    I happened to have exactly the same problem as so many people running Windows 7, and I had my fair share of fatal errors too, which is pretty frustrating when you're midway in your long haul flight. So I looked into it and I think I may have a solution.

    Some  time ago, I couldn't have Neverwinter Nights 2 running on my Windows 7, and while browsing the forums at Bioware, I saw that is was a .dll problem, regarding some hardware autodetect. So I instead of letting NWN2 relying on this particular DLL belonging to Windows 7, I decided to try to put the Windows Vista version of the same .DLL in the executable directory, and it worked. I could launch NWN2 and play perfectly.

    So, while googling to solve this very annoying problem in FS, I came across this thread here, only to see it was a problem with UIAutomationCore.dll - I'm running Windows 7 x64 build 7137.

    So, like for NWN2 I tried to put a Windows Vista Version of UIAutomationCore.dll in the same folder as fsx.exe, and clicked like mad. It didn't crash. I deleted it, clicked like mad, and had a fatal error after about 20 mouse clicks on the menus. I put it back, and no crashes after around 100 mouse clicks. So, right now, it doesn't seem to crash in a fatal error anymore.

    If you can get your hands of the Windows Vista version of UIAutomationCore.dll, just put it in the same folder than FSX.exe, and just to be sure, launch a cmd.exe as an administrator, and when in your FS X folder, type regsvr32 UIAutomationCore.dll. I can't be 100 % sure about this last step, just a safety precaution.

    After a flight test from TNCM to TFFF with the default Acceleration Hornet, I couldn't crash the sim by clicking in menus, no matter how hard I try. Looks like quite a promising (quick and dirty) fix to me.

    System info: Intel Core i7 920 (overclocked  to 3,54 GHz, rock stable, never ever crashes), 6 GB DDR3 1600 RAM, Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 motherboard with HT enabled but with energy saving features off, nvidia geforce 260+ graphics card with 186.16 Windows 7 drivers, Windows 7 build 7137, FS X + Acceleration Pack and REX installed, nHancer tweaks, runs super smooth.

    So, there you go, but of course, your mileage may vary !
    Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:33 PM
  • Thank you so much!!! This has worked perfectly for me, and I am very thankful for you helping fix this problem. Might just be a cheap and nasty fix, but until MS can get a patch or something, this is fine!
    Wednesday, July 01, 2009 5:28 AM
  • The previously mentioned fix (wherever it went) doesn't work for win7x64 7201. I think the fsx.exe has to be edited to accept the new dll file in its own directory. After looking up the process list and loaded dll's with hijackthis, it still showed the \system32 uiauto loaded instead of the vista file in it's own directory. If it is working, it's probably just a fluke unfortunately.
    Wednesday, July 01, 2009 5:40 AM
  • (the fix went to the top of the page apparently)

    Bummer.

    Yesterday I wanted to make sure that the exe was calling the right dll, so I fired up process monitor, but coulnd't find it. So now I tried hijackthis, and lo and behold, there's the dll list. On my setup, FSX.EXE DOES call the local DLL in the same folder as FSX, screenshot here : http://pagesperso-orange.fr/piotr/uiautomationcore.png .

    For now I don't really plan to upgrade my Win7 until the final version ... But if this hack doesn't work anymore, that's pretty bad news indeed.

    Wednesday, July 01, 2009 8:07 AM
  • Right. In fact I installed FSX in ... a c:\fsx folder, just like I installed my 2004 in a c:\fs9 folder - for two reasons :

    - pure lazyness, since those paths are much shorter than the default paths :D ;
    - convenience regarding the UAC/permissions issues. It's quite cumbersome to launch notepad.exe as an administrator eveytime, click "yes" when  the warning pops up, etc when you want to edit an aircraft.cfg file or save bitmap files when you are creating your own livery for your favorite plane.

    This is my system drive, and this is a 2 x 500 GB RAID-0 array. It's damn fast, but FS is such a bandwidth-hungry beast that it's not too much.

    I think there are ways to move a full/huge FS X installation from Program Files to another folder by changing a few registry keys and configuration files - Of course, complex addons like PMDG's or other may not work since they rely on registry keys pointing towards specific folders, but I think it may be worth a try.
    Wednesday, July 01, 2009 8:25 AM
  • It is a 32 bit version. My FS X version is the 10.0.61637.0 English language , and my uiautomationcore.dll is version 6.0.6001.1800 English language as well. The dll is 152,064 bytes in size. In my Windows folder, I have two different UIAutomationCore.dll , one is located in c:\windows\system32 which is 752,640 bytes in size, and another one in the SYSWOW64 folder which is 563,712 bytes in size. There's definitely something going on here.
    Wednesday, July 01, 2009 8:33 PM
  • I can confirm I used to 32 bit version of UIAutomationCore.dll from Vista SP1. Use the one in the System32 folder. Thanks again for the fix!
    Wednesday, July 01, 2009 8:54 PM
  • Hey I'm glad it's working for you guys. The need for a 32 bit version makes perfect sense since 32 bit executables can only load 32 bit DLL. I knew this and it was obvious to me, but I didn't think about elaborating on this point any further.
    Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:14 PM
  • Hello everyone

    I solved my problem finding that FSX tried to install an older version of VS 2005 (with old MFC80 DLLs) redist. This seems to be a chicken egg - problems as the FSX installation is incompatibile with Win 7 (possibly why copying UIAutomationCore.dll  sort of fix the problem - but my guess is you get other apps that migth be unstable).

    Below is my story on FSX and Win7-64bit the last few days, and what I have done to get mine working. I will mention things that I think migth be usefull to others. (Let me know if anybody find the below usefull - I know its a long and detailed story)

    I did a fresh installation of Windowws 7RC including Visual Studio 2008 and 2010. I also play Tom Clancy's HAWX (that install VS 2005 redistrubuted) + plus the usual suspects( Office 2003+NIS2009, Norton Utils, Divx, etc, etc).

    I then install FSX. I could not get the installation to complete. I found that I had SQL server 2005 + 2008 somehow prevented FSX to install. When I removed SQL server the installation continued and "completed" (Though I suspect this was not the real problem is with VS 2005 Redist. that caused an incompatibility *see below*). Right after FSX was installed (In Win 2000 Compatibility mode - dunno if that is really neccsary)  it tried to to install DirectX 9 (and failed). I ignored this and continued to fire up FSX that asked me for the activitation code.

    Trying to play FSX  I found the following:
    1. My video were slow, I reinstall the nVidia driver and solved the problem
    2. I could not play the missions, the game crashed, but can play free flights and tutorials. I remove apps (VS 2010, .Net SDK etc), reinstall FSX, do this and that, but could not solved the problem, untill I decided to view the Win 7 event log. There I realised that somehow there were a problem with MFC 8.0 DLL and libraries with FSX.exe. On some investigation I found that there were two installed copies of VS 2005 Redist. I removed copies and then downloaded a fresh copy from MS Website (if you have this same problem you find a log entry in the Action Centre window and how to resolve it).

    Once I did this FSX worked 100% on my win7 64 bit. I reinstall SQL server, VS 2008, 2010 .NET SDK etc, and everything is still working 100% (in DirectX 9, DirectX 10). Also note I have installed SP2 of FSX.
     
    My system Specs:
    Antec truepower 850w PSU in a Antec 900-2 Case
    Asus P6T Deluxe V2
    ASUS GeForce GTX 295 (Dual display) - (nVidia Driver Version 186.18)
    Intel Core i7 920 @2.67
    6 Gb Corsair Dominator Triple Channel 1333
    Windows 7 64Bit Build 7100

    The Event entry looks like this:
    Faulting application name: fsx.exe, version: 10.0.61637.0, time stamp: 0x46fadb14
    Faulting module name: MFC80.DLL, version: 8.0.50727.1833, time stamp: 0x482bc3e3
    Exception code: 0xc0000005
    Fault offset: 0x0004c0f3
    Faulting process id: 0x1368
    Faulting application start time: 0x01c9fd4488385773
    Faulting application path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\fsx.exe
    Faulting module path: C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_microsoft.vc80.mfc_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_8.0.50727.1833_none_cbf00aee470f5fb7\MFC80.DLL
    Report Id: e2ef38ba-6937-11de-af7d-00248c7ef0a0


    • Edited by tgs1970 Sunday, July 05, 2009 2:24 PM
    Sunday, July 05, 2009 2:04 PM
  • Hi All,
    I am coming back after a test for a sales shop which has also a website ( http://www.cybertek .fr ).
    I was thinking : " IF FSX can't recognize 2 graphic  processors as NVIDIA 295 GTX maybe it is possible that FSX see only one processor instead of 2 when running SLI?"

    Also someone of us (Maximaxi see upon) was saying that we can have four monitors connected on the same graphic card using Matrox triple head. And I confirm with its and mine graphic card it is possible.

    So, the idea was to test a configuration with 2 big graphic cards in SLI as Nvidia GF 285 GTX, a motherboard able  to have 3 PCI-E slots to have another graphic card as (for example) Nvidia 7600 GT.

    Why a little graphic card? 2 reasons:
    First Because it is not necessary for a single monitor (The 5th) to have a big graphic card.
    Secondly and it will be the principal reason : because you don't have possibility to put for example an higher graphic card as NVIDIA 9600 GT because fan and screws make it very big and it is not possible to connect it in the third slot PCI-E.

    For that, I was thinking: if this configuration runs we can have on the three monitors driven by Matrox a very significant increase in FPS.

    Unfortunately FSX see SLI with 2 graphic processors and instead of an increase you see a decrease in FPS compared to an alone  graphic card with one processor as GF 285 GTX.

    Yes a decrease!!
    I don't know why but it's a fact!

    Regards.
    Guy

    Conclusion FSX is only able to see one graphic processor. And I confirm, actually Nvidia  GF 285 GTX is one of the bigger graphic card possible for FSX. (I don't know ATI graphic card but if someone know; that will be a good thing to share with us his knowledge)

    hmm I think you have wrong here (if I understand you post correctly). FSX does not control the GPU directly, but it is done via the driver/and or DirectX.

    If you running slower with a two SLI Cards, the problem might be with your PSU that can't supply enought power to the GPU and result in poor performance. there is some big dicussion on having 2x nVidia SLI cards with different GPU causes performance problems as well, mainly the reason how nVidia strategy around driver development. best always to have the same type of GPU in SLI.
    Sunday, July 05, 2009 2:50 PM
  • Hi TGS 1970 I can say only that I was using a 1200 Watts PSU Be Quiet and I think it was sufficient for what I had to do. And the two graphics cards were 285 GTX of same model as Twintech. I think probably the GPU were identical.And to finish 2 things: 1°) I used driver 185.85 and 186.18 for same result.

    2°) It's a professional newspaper which had written that FSX was unable to use two graphic processors.

    I will retreive that news.

    Regards.
    Guy
    Sunday, July 05, 2009 5:53 PM
  • Hi TGS 1970 I can say only that I was using a 1200 Watts PSU Be Quiet and I think it was sufficient for what I had to do. And the two graphics cards were 285 GTX of same model as Twintech. I think probably the GPU were identical.And to finish 2 things: 1°) I used driver 185.85 and 186.18 for same result.

    2°) It's a professional newspaper which had written that FSX was unable to use two graphic processors.

    I will retreive that news.

    Regards.
    Guy
    I am bit confused but you lead to be believe you had 2x 295s in SLIs  ? Now you saying it is 2x 285 GTX?

    1200 watts should be power.

    Remember a 295 is a single PCE adaptor with 2x"285" GPU on board.


    FSX does reconize that I have 2x GPUs in my single Asus 295 GTX card.
    Sunday, July 05, 2009 6:07 PM
  • Hi TGS 1970

    Read this coming from "computer shopper"

    http://computershopper.com/graphics-cards/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-295

    Review
    Reviewed by: Denny Atkin
    Review Date: January 2009 
    In the back-and-forth competition for the title of fastest single graphics card, the GeForce GTX 295 puts Nvidia back on top, bouncing ATI's Radeon HD 4870 X2 down to second place. Like ATI's former champ, the GTX 295 actually packs the equivalent of two 3D cards into a single package, offering dual-GPU performance without the motherboard-compatibility and power-supply hassles of separate cards.

    The GTX 295 bears a strong resemblance to Nvidia's previous dual-circuit-board monster, the GeForce 9800 GX2. Like that card, it is 10.5 inches long and double the width of a standard card, so it blocks an adjacent slot. The back of one circuit board is now exposed, and the new card has a slick flat-black finish that doesn't pick up fingerprints like its glossy predecessor did.

    Each of the GTX 295's 55-nanometer (nm) GPUs has 896MB of memory as well as the same 240 the same processing cores and 80 texture-filtering units as the GTX 280, making for a total of 1,792MB of video RAM. The stock clock speeds are slightly slower than the GTX 280's GPU, with a 576MHz core clock, 1,242MHz shader clock, and 999MHz memory speed, compared to 602MHz, 1,296MHz, and 1,107MHz respectively on the GTX 280. As you'd expect, some OEMs will offer GTX 295 cards with higher-clocked parts, though we imagine cooling issues with the sandwiched parts will keep speeds below those of the fastest single-GPU cards. The fan, which sits between the two circuit boards, is quieter than the stock 4870 X2 cooler but noticeably more audible than the fan on the GTX 280.

    Assuming your PC case has the clearance for a double-width card, you'll only need one PCI Express (PCIe) x16 slot for the GTX 295. But it requires both an eight-pin and a six-pin power connector as well as at least a 680-watt supply that can support the board's 289-watt peak power demand.  Used with a Scalable Link Interface (SLI)-capable motherboard (and an even larger power supply), you can install a second GTX 295 to enable four-GPU, Quad SLI support.

    The GTX 295 features a pair of dual-link DVI connectors as well as an HDMI port. Nvidia has finally added SLI Multi-Mon capability to its drivers, so you no longer have to disable the second GPU when using two monitors. Alternately, you can dedicate one of the GPUs to graphics and the second (or an additional GeForce card) to PhysX physics acceleration, though only a few games take full advantage of PhysX so far.

    In nearly all of our tests, the GTX 295 handily beat the competition. Its score of 9,074 on the Extreme setting of Futuremark's 3DMark Vantage clearly was far ahead of the 4870 X2's 7,289, and it nearly matched the 9,108 achieved by a pair of GTX 280 cards running in SLI mode. In our DirectX 9 (DX9) F.E.A.R. test, the GTX 295 turned in 127 frames per second (fps) at 2,560x1,600 resolution, beating the 116fps achieved by the 4870 X2  —and more than doubling the 62fps of Nvidia's previous-generation dual-GPU card, the 9800 GX2. In our World in Conflict DX10 test, the GTX 295 scored 49 fps to the 4870 X2's 41fps.

    The one exception was our Call of Juarez test, where the 4870 X2's 62.6 fps at 1,920x1,200 resolution beat the GTX 295's 52.6 fps score. Call of Juarez seems better-optimized for ATI's cards, as the Radeon series almost always trumps comparable GeForce cards with that game. Also, note that a few games, such as Microsoft Flight Simulator X, don't take advantage of a second GPU, and frame rates end up very close to those you get from a single-GPU card. That's the exception, though, and the majority of games will see a significant speedup on the GTX 295 compared to the GTX 280.

    As with other Nvidia cards, the GTX 295 supports DX10 rather than DX10.1. With only a couple of games offering DX10.1 support and DX11 arriving with Windows 7, this isn’t likely to be a big concern for most users. Visual quality is superb, with the raw horsepower of the GTX 295 letting you max out texture detail, anti-aliasing, and filtering at high resolutions while still maintaining playable frame rates. The board supports Nvidia’s PureVideo HD, which lowers CPU load during DVD and Blu-ray playback.

    At $499, the GTX 295 isn't cheap, but consider that the single-GPU GTX 280 sold for $649 when it was introduced in mid-2008. And—certainly not coincidentally—that pricetag matches the street price of ATI's 4870 X2 at the time of the GTX 295's introduction. It's probably overkill for smaller monitors, but if you're looking to push graphics to the limit on a 30-inch monitor, a 1080p TV, or on dual displays, the GTX 295 delivers the best performance you can currently buy in a single card.

    Price (at time of review): $499

    See all of our Nvidia GeForce GTX 295 coverage


    Regards.
    Guy

    Review

    Reviewed by: Denny Atkin
    Review Date: January 2009

    In the back-and-forth competition for the title of fastest single graphics card, the GeForce GTX 295 puts Nvidia back on top, bouncing ATI's Radeon HD 4870 X2 down to second place. Like ATI's former champ, the GTX 295 actually packs the equivalent of two 3D cards into a single package, offering dual-GPU performance without the motherboard-compatibility and power-supply hassles of separate cards.

    The GTX 295 bears a strong resemblance to Nvidia's previous dual-circuit-board monster, the GeForce 9800 GX2. Like that card, it is 10.5 inches long and double the width of a standard card, so it blocks an adjacent slot. The back of one circuit board is now exposed, and the new card has a slick flat-black finish that doesn't pick up fingerprints like its glossy predecessor did.

    Each of the GTX 295's 55-nanometer (nm) GPUs has 896MB of memory as well as the same 240 the same processing cores and 80 texture-filtering units as the GTX 280, making for a total of 1,792MB of video RAM. The stock clock speeds are slightly slower than the GTX 280's GPU, with a 576MHz core clock, 1,242MHz shader clock, and 999MHz memory speed, compared to 602MHz, 1,296MHz, and 1,107MHz respectively on the GTX 280. As you'd expect, some OEMs will offer GTX 295 cards with higher-clocked parts, though we imagine cooling issues with the sandwiched parts will keep speeds below those of the fastest single-GPU cards. The fan, which sits between the two circuit boards, is quieter than the stock 4870 X2 cooler but noticeably more audible than the fan on the GTX 280.

    Assuming your PC case has the clearance for a double-width card, you'll only need one PCI Express (PCIe) x16 slot for the GTX 295. But it requires both an eight-pin and a six-pin power connector as well as at least a 680-watt supply that can support the board's 289-watt peak power demand.  Used with a Scalable Link Interface (SLI)-capable motherboard (and an even larger power supply), you can install a second GTX 295 to enable four-GPU, Quad SLI support.

    The GTX 295 features a pair of dual-link DVI connectors as well as an HDMI port. Nvidia has finally added SLI Multi-Mon capability to its drivers, so you no longer have to disable the second GPU when using two monitors. Alternately, you can dedicate one of the GPUs to graphics and the second (or an additional GeForce card) to PhysX physics acceleration, though only a few games take full advantage of PhysX so far.

    In nearly all of our tests, the GTX 295 handily beat the competition. Its score of 9,074 on the Extreme setting of Futuremark's 3DMark Vantage clearly was far ahead of the 4870 X2's 7,289, and it nearly matched the 9,108 achieved by a pair of GTX 280 cards running in SLI mode. In our DirectX 9 (DX9) F.E.A.R. test, the GTX 295 turned in 127 frames per second (fps) at 2,560x1,600 resolution, beating the 116fps achieved by the 4870 X2  —and more than doubling the 62fps of Nvidia's previous-generation dual-GPU card, the 9800 GX2. In our World in Conflict DX10 test, the GTX 295 scored 49 fps to the 4870 X2's 41fps.

    The one exception was our Call of Juarez test, where the 4870 X2's 62.6 fps at 1,920x1,200 resolution beat the GTX 295's 52.6 fps score. Call of Juarez seems better-optimized for ATI's cards, as the Radeon series almost always trumps comparable GeForce cards with that game. Also, note that a few games, such as Microsoft Flight Simulator X, don't take advantage of a second GPU, and frame rates end up very close to those you get from a single-GPU card. That's the exception, though, and the majority of games will see a significant speedup on the GTX 295 compared to the GTX 280.

    As with other Nvidia cards, the GTX 295 supports DX10 rather than DX10.1. With only a couple of games offering DX10.1 support and DX11 arriving with Windows 7, this isn’t likely to be a big concern for most users. Visual quality is superb, with the raw horsepower of the GTX 295 letting you max out texture detail, anti-aliasing, and filtering at high resolutions while still maintaining playable frame rates. The board supports Nvidia’s PureVideo HD, which lowers CPU load during DVD and Blu-ray playback.

    At $499, the GTX 295 isn't cheap, but consider that the single-GPU GTX 280 sold for $649 when it was introduced in mid-2008. And—certainly not coincidentally—that pricetag matches the street price of ATI's 4870 X2 at the time of the GTX 295's introduction. It's probably overkill for smaller monitors, but if you're looking to push graphics to the limit on a 30-inch monitor, a 1080p TV, or on dual displays, the GTX 295 delivers the best performance you can currently buy in a single card.

    Price (at time of review): $499

    See all of our Nvidia GeForce GTX 295 coverage

    Review

    Reviewed by: Denny Atkin
    Review Date: January 2009

    In the back-and-forth competition for the title of fastest single graphics card, the GeForce GTX 295 puts Nvidia back on top, bouncing ATI's Radeon HD 4870 X2 down to second place. Like ATI's former champ, the GTX 295 actually packs the equivalent of two 3D cards into a single package, offering dual-GPU performance without the motherboard-compatibility and power-supply hassles of separate cards.

    The GTX 295 bears a strong resemblance to Nvidia's previous dual-circuit-board monster, the GeForce 9800 GX2. Like that card, it is 10.5 inches long and double the width of a standard card, so it blocks an adjacent slot. The back of one circuit board is now exposed, and the new card has a slick flat-black finish that doesn't pick up fingerprints like its glossy predecessor did.

    Each of the GTX 295's 55-nanometer (nm) GPUs has 896MB of memory as well as the same 240 the same processing cores and 80 texture-filtering units as the GTX 280, making for a total of 1,792MB of video RAM. The stock clock speeds are slightly slower than the GTX 280's GPU, with a 576MHz core clock, 1,242MHz shader clock, and 999MHz memory speed, compared to 602MHz, 1,296MHz, and 1,107MHz respectively on the GTX 280. As you'd expect, some OEMs will offer GTX 295 cards with higher-clocked parts, though we imagine cooling issues with the sandwiched parts will keep speeds below those of the fastest single-GPU cards. The fan, which sits between the two circuit boards, is quieter than the stock 4870 X2 cooler but noticeably more audible than the fan on the GTX 280.

    Assuming your PC case has the clearance for a double-width card, you'll only need one PCI Express (PCIe) x16 slot for the GTX 295. But it requires both an eight-pin and a six-pin power connector as well as at least a 680-watt supply that can support the board's 289-watt peak power demand.  Used with a Scalable Link Interface (SLI)-capable motherboard (and an even larger power supply), you can install a second GTX 295 to enable four-GPU, Quad SLI support.

    The GTX 295 features a pair of dual-link DVI connectors as well as an HDMI port. Nvidia has finally added SLI Multi-Mon capability to its drivers, so you no longer have to disable the second GPU when using two monitors. Alternately, you can dedicate one of the GPUs to graphics and the second (or an additional GeForce card) to PhysX physics acceleration, though only a few games take full advantage of PhysX so far.

    In nearly all of our tests, the GTX 295 handily beat the competition. Its score of 9,074 on the Extreme setting of Futuremark's 3DMark Vantage clearly was far ahead of the 4870 X2's 7,289, and it nearly matched the 9,108 achieved by a pair of GTX 280 cards running in SLI mode. In our DirectX 9 (DX9) F.E.A.R. test, the GTX 295 turned in 127 frames per second (fps) at 2,560x1,600 resolution, beating the 116fps achieved by the 4870 X2  —and more than doubling the 62fps of Nvidia's previous-generation dual-GPU card, the 9800 GX2. In our World in Conflict DX10 test, the GTX 295 scored 49 fps to the 4870 X2's 41fps.

    The one exception was our Call of Juarez test, where the 4870 X2's 62.6 fps at 1,920x1,200 resolution beat the GTX 295's 52.6 fps score. Call of Juarez seems better-optimized for ATI's cards, as the Radeon series almost always trumps comparable GeForce cards with that game. Also, note that a few games, such as Microsoft Flight Simulator X, don't take advantage of a second GPU, and frame rates end up very close to those you get from a single-GPU card. That's the exception, though, and the majority of games will see a significant speedup on the GTX 295 compared to the GTX 280.

    As with other Nvidia cards, the GTX 295 supports DX10 rather than DX10.1. With only a couple of games offering DX10.1 support and DX11 arriving with Windows 7, this isn’t likely to be a big concern for most users. Visual quality is superb, with the raw horsepower of the GTX 295 letting you max out texture detail, anti-aliasing, and filtering at high resolutions while still maintaining playable frame rates. The board supports Nvidia’s PureVideo HD, which lowers CPU load during DVD and Blu-ray playback.

    At $499, the GTX 295 isn't cheap, but consider that the single-GPU GTX 280 sold for $649 when it was introduced in mid-2008. And—certainly not coincidentally—that pricetag matches the street price of ATI's 4870 X2 at the time of the GTX 295's introduction. It's probably overkill for smaller monitors, but if you're looking to push graphics to the limit on a 30-inch monitor, a 1080p TV, or on dual displays, the GTX 295 delivers the best performance you can currently buy in a single card.

    Price (at time of review): $499

    See all of our Nvidia GeForce GTX 295 coverage

    Sunday, July 05, 2009 6:18 PM
  • Hi all,
    For information I made 2 tests.
    The first one with only one 295 GTX and I was not able to have more FPS that I had with my 285 GTX and it seems because FSX did'nt take advantage of to GPU.
    The second one with two 285 GTX in SLI and in fact to see if FSX saw only one GPU using the two GPU and in fact he saw 2 processors and the FPS  failed.
    Regards.
    Guy
    Sunday, July 05, 2009 6:24 PM
  • Sorry for bad English you have to read "more....than" and 2 (two) GPU'S
    Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:04 PM
  • I'm not really sure that there is a point in having a SLI system considering the price/performance/power consumption ratio ... Only a handful of games do take advantage of all the power of a SLI setup. Of course, anyone is free to do whatever they want with their money, but still, especially for FSX, which has very poor 3D peformance and optimization (especially in contrast with many other games ... say Crysis with its gorgeous graphics and stunning physics, clouds, lighting and environment), I'm not really sure that going SLI for FSX is a smart move. I'd buy, say, a new yoke, throttle lever, or a bunch of addons instead of a second GTX285.

    I think that with today's hardware performance, we would be entitled to something a bit more visually appealing that what FSX currently has to offer, and take advantage of new features like CUDA/PhysX, say, to accurately calculate flight dynamics. FS still has a gignormous amount of addons available, something that even X-Plane doesn't have, but in the future, I'm convinced that it won't be enough.

    To stick to the original performance issue, I'm pretty sure I saw a FPS increase when I installed FS Acceleration, it SEEMED much smoother - I say seemed, because I didn't run any comparison nor took any FPS measurments. Lastly, I installed nHancer to tweak the antialiasing settings a bit, and when using nHancer ( = display driver level settings), the results were much better than FS's dubious antialiasing, without hurting the FPS count as much. So you may want to give it a try to gain a few frames per second.
    Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:00 PM
  • Hi Pj-Piotr,

    What you are saying comes from a moderate remarks, for me too I don't think SLI is very good with FSX. With others new games ok but with FSX I am not sure.

    If I was testing that was to improve what was said in the newpaper adding a mine idea for the second test using remarks coming from Maximaxy because I use 5 monitors on the same computer.
    Regards.
    Guy
    Monday, July 06, 2009 5:07 AM
  • Hi Pj-Piotr,

    And I add also that never I bought a second 285 GTX graphic card it was only lended to me by Cybertek to do these tests.
    Also  the 1200w Bequiet GPU.
    Regards.
    Guy
    Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:10 AM
  • Sorry =1200W Be Quiet PSU
    Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:18 AM
  • hello, i too am using win7 with fsx, 32bits 7100, and also facing the dreaded CTD when using menus with the mouse.

    i jumped from xp to win7 when i bought fsx, but i remember having CTD also with XP when using the menus. anyway, i hope this issue is soon corrected, it's terribly annoying to say the least :)

    cheers,
    ajm
    Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:34 PM
  • sorry if I'm asking the obvious, what is the CTD bug about ?
    Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:50 PM
  • sorry if I'm asking the obvious, what is the CTD bug about ?

    The Crash To Desktop bug seems to happen when using FSX on Windows 7, either 32Bits or  64. This happen when you make use of the menus for a few time, some report 5 minutes of flying before CTD, other around 60 clicks, I myself, also found this problem very random. So I try not to use my mouse any more. using ALT key to navigate. this seems to avoid the CTD.

    Im using FSX on windows 7 RC 64
    ATI X1950 PRO
    HiFi Xtreme Audio
    4 gb RAM.
    AMD2 6000+ 3.0ghz

    Running FSX on same harddrive as OS, using Squawkbox, ASX, X-Graphics.

    Anyone know if this problem is fixed in the POST RC leaked builds of Windows 7??

     
    Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:34 AM
  • I never found that and I use the menu often while in flight.
    Wednesday, July 08, 2009 4:01 PM
  • It seems were all having a common issue. I am seeing similar results. If I right-click an open space during game play and bring up a submenu, multiple times the game will hang. FYI, I'm playing Microsoft Flight Simulator X, SP1

    I also noticed that in the task manager, the memory usage goes through the roof and usually crashes somewhere around 440,000K during game play. When you launch the application have the Task Manager open and watch the memory usage. On my system, when the application loads the memory usage is somewhere around 93,000 K. If you click any of the submenus, Free Flight, Missions, Multiplayer, etc. the memory usage starts to clime at a rapid rate. I clicked around to a few menus and memory usage was at 200,000 K.

     

    System

    Windows 7 Build 7100 - 32 bit
    Dell - Dimension 8400 Intel P4 CPU 3.20GHz, RAM   2.00 GB
    SoundMAX Integrated Digital Audio – Driver - smwdm.sys 5.12.1.7010
    Radeon X300/X550/X1050 Series Secondary - Drivers - atikmdag.sys 8.1.1.858
    DirectX 11

    • Edited by JoePilot Thursday, July 09, 2009 8:08 AM typo
    Thursday, July 09, 2009 8:05 AM
  • I never found that and I use the menu often while in flight.

    Apparently you most have Windows 7 and FSX with SP1 or SP2 installed...

    If you still dont get this CTD, lucky you...

    Salute
    Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:51 AM
  • Hi all,
    Reading your posts, it seems there is a real issue for some of us running FSX with SP1 and SP2 when in windowed or full screen mode you are clicking with the mouse over menu bar or in the white screen. You experiment, after different times, à CTD.
    Some resolved this issue using only keyboard, but I don't think it's a good solution and it's necessary now that win 7 team takes and solves this issue.

    Thanks a lot.
    Regards.
    Guy
    Saturday, July 11, 2009 5:52 AM
  • Or you could use my UIAutomationCore.dll hack/fix in the meantime.
    Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:11 PM
  • I never found that and I use the menu often while in flight.

    Apparently you most have Windows 7 and FSX with SP1 or SP2 installed...

    If you still dont get this CTD, lucky you...

    Salute

    Bugger, now I'm getting this bug all the time !
    Saturday, July 11, 2009 1:19 PM
  • Or you could use my UIAutomationCore.dll hack/fix in the meantime.

    Can I use this same .dll if im running at 64bit??? isnt the .dll for 32?

    Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:11 AM
  • Hi Guy,

    it is true, I use Win 7 RC now and it's smoother and faster than Vista. One remark, on starting FSX I get a popup telling me FSX has done a change to the screen resolution in Win 7 RC ..
    Any idea what that may be?

    Greetings,
    Luk
    Sunday, July 12, 2009 11:01 AM
  • Hi J_Luk,

    It's because you don't have Aero in fsx and  I suppose your win 7 RC is running an aero theme. For that automatically win 7 adjust the display using win 7base as theme. But do you think it is bad?
    For me I love the blue light color used for FSX.

    To answer it's not a problem and you can run FSX without any problem meanwhile it says "I have changed your colors....."

    Regards.
    Guy
    PS: you said "Win 7 has changed the screen resolution" What was before FSX your resolution? And under FSX, if you go into "options" then "Parameters" then "Display" and in Resolution do you read another resolution than this you use to have?
    I am waiting your answer and for that give us your computer configuration.
    Sunday, July 12, 2009 4:24 PM
  • Hi Alfredo-Laredo,
    I don't know if his Hack is for 32 bits or 64 bits and perhaps Pj-Piotr is in holidays. So try it and you will see....
    After it is not a problem to backtrack.

    Regards.
    Guy
    Sunday, July 12, 2009 4:28 PM
  • I too experience this problem in FSX. Now running Win7 Ultumate x64 on an intel core i7 920 & superclocked GTX285. 6GB DDR3 ram memory. The performance gain in Win7 is amazing but it's flawed & this bug is driving me nuts. I currently use keyboard shortcuts so i don't really need the taskbar but whenever i do want to use it FSX locks up & forces me to restart the entire program. We all know what the cause is... Win7 compatibility & coding so the latest build 7600RTM is still not final. Or are they planning to release a fix anytime soon? Via windows update.
    Monday, July 20, 2009 11:41 PM
  • Or you could use my UIAutomationCore.dll hack/fix in the meantime.
    I really could, if it would work. I copied UIAutomationCore.dll from the VistaHome Premium32bits of my laptop to the C:\progs\fsx, but tonight it crashed again. I regsvr32'ed the dll when i installed it some days ago.

    Here my event:

    Faulting application name: fsx.exe, version: 10.0.61637.0, time stamp: 0x46fadb14
    Faulting module name: uiautomationcore.dll, version: 6.0.6001.18000, time stamp: 0x4791a76f
    Exception code: 0xc0000005
    Fault offset: 0x0001dd8f
    Faulting process id: 0x95c
    Faulting application start time: 0x01ca0cc07373e9d9
    Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\fsx.exe
    Faulting module path: C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\uiautomationcore.dll
    Report Id: 102da13c-78bd-11de-ba43-0019bb5bd894
    On the first i right-clicked as mad but fsx didnt crashed, i was so happy figuring out this was the bug, but today i had the infamous CTD when using right-click. If I use left-click in combination with the ALT key (in order to call the menu), everything is great.

    Another Microsoft "Issue"
    Saturday, July 25, 2009 5:40 AM
  • The only reason I am here is to find a solution to the problem of crashing when using the menu. But it stumps me to see ALL these post of you all thinking the problem is windows 7. It has nothing to do with windows 7. It happens on XP, Vista, and W7. I am using XP and it happens so bad that all I have to do is open the menu and click a sub menu and crash. Through all the research I done I have also noticed, it doesn't matter if it's an old card or a new one, as long as it's Nvidia. On this forum you all seem to think it's the uiautomationcore.dll, on another they say it's the Nvida driver and that you have to use Driver 169.21 and it will work.  Nothing has worked yet. I understand we are all upset that we have this problem, if you think the problem is W7 your on the wrong track.

    Regards
    Sunday, August 02, 2009 4:23 AM
  • I am sorry sir but I think there is a lot of persons running  XP with FSX others running Vista 32 or 64 bits with FSX and for end the last one running Win 7 with FSX without problems. Here we are discussing about Win 7 and FSX. Some of us encountered problems but a solution in Win 7 is to don't use the mouse only shortcuts with the keyboard and FSX is running without CTD. It's not very fun but it's a solution waiting the win 7 team take in charge this problem to find a good solution  with Win 7 running FSX.
    Regards.
    Guy
    Sunday, August 02, 2009 3:45 PM
  • The only reason I am here is to find a solution to the problem of crashing when using the menu. But it stumps me to see ALL these post of you all thinking the problem is windows 7. It has nothing to do with windows 7. It happens on XP, Vista, and W7. I am using XP and it happens so bad that all I have to do is open the menu and click a sub menu and crash. Through all the research I done I have also noticed, it doesn't matter if it's an old card or a new one, as long as it's Nvidia. On this forum you all seem to think it's the uiautomationcore.dll, on another they say it's the Nvida driver and that you have to use Driver 169.21 and it will work.  Nothing has worked yet. I understand we are all upset that we have this problem, if you think the problem is W7 your on the wrong track.

    Regards

    I think I agree with this post, the problem does *NOT* seem to be W7 entirely.

    MS released a patch for the MS VS 2005 libraries and won't suprise me if that solves the problem.

    PS: Of course if you used the uiautomationcore.dll hack then any patch MS released won't solved the problem either way.

    EDIT Note: Added *NOT*
    • Edited by tgs1970 Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:23 PM
    Sunday, August 02, 2009 6:41 PM
  • Hi TGS 1970,

    I don't understand your last post;

    Do you want to say "I cannot agree....." or "the problem does not seemed to be...."

    This is for the first point.

    The second is more interesting ; If MS is releasing a patch for Visual Studio 2005 the question is:

    How many of us are using VS 2005 and FSX and how many of these Simmers have CTD?

    Tks for answer.
    Regards.

    Guy
    Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:01 PM
  • Hi TGS 1970,

    I don't understand your last post;

    Do you want to say "I cannot agree....." or "the problem does not seemed to be...."

    This is for the first point.

    The second is more interesting ; If MS is releasing a patch for Visual Studio 2005 the question is:

    How many of us are using VS 2005 and FSX and how many of these Simmers have CTD?

    Tks for answer.
    Regards.

    Guy

    FSX uses VS 2005 libraries, i.e. FSX was programmed with VS 2005. So if there is a bug in the VS 2005 libraries, then the bug will flows to FSX. So its not FSX that needs to be fixed but  VS 2005 libraries (that installs with FSX).


    http://www.fsinsider.com/downloads/pages/flightsimulatorxservicepack1.aspx
    http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2008/02/04/updated-issues-that-may-affect-3rd-party-content-for-fsx-and-that-will-not-be-fixed-in-sp1.aspx
    http://forums1.avsim.net/lofiversion/index.php/t66308.html
    http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=Missions_-_Go_To_Briefing_-_CTD_(FSX/A)


    Hope this settle this.



    Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:18 PM
  • Hi TGS 1970,
    If I understand all of us are using VS 2005,
    first question: do we use vs 2005 sp2 because SP2 when installing it remove a lot of program?
    Second question; Why only some of us get this issue? Because all of us have installed FSX with the 2 DVD's.

    Also did you play only missions to have CTD? Or also when you play free flights?
    For me all is correct simming only free flights with Robin or Jabiru in VFR or PMDG MD 11 simming IFR.
    I had installed under Win 7RC French, FSX SP1 and SP2 and I use, simming on Ivao network, their programs as ATC or Pilot without problem and also with multi-computer( the last remark signifies that SDK SP1 and SP2 are installed on the second computer)

    Now I don't understand and hope that this issue will be solved by MS.

    Regards.
    Guy
    Monday, August 03, 2009 8:26 AM
  • Hi TGS 1970,
    If I understand all of us are using VS 2005,
    first question: do we use vs 2005 sp2 because SP2 when installing it remove a lot of program?
    Second question; Why only some of us get this issue? Because all of us have installed FSX with the 2 DVD's.

    Also did you play only missions to have CTD? Or also when you play free flights?
    For me all is correct simming only free flights with Robin or Jabiru in VFR or PMDG MD 11 simming IFR.
    I had installed under Win 7RC French, FSX SP1 and SP2 and I use, simming on Ivao network, their programs as ATC or Pilot without problem and also with multi-computer( the last remark signifies that SDK SP1 and SP2 are installed on the second computer)

    Now I don't understand and hope that this issue will be solved by MS.

    Regards.
    Guy

    VS 2005 Redistrubition is on the FSX disks, it will install at the same time when you install FSX, you won't notice it. (check your installed programs in the control panel and I'm sure it will list VS 2005 Redist).

    Have you run Windows 7 Update recently ? And did you get the VS 2005 Redis update on 26 July 2009 ?
    Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:56 PM
  • Hi TGS 1970,

    My answer; No I do not run Windows Seven Update recently but for me it runs automatically each switch on. I have seen my historical for Updates and don't see the VS2005 redis update from 14/07/2009 to 03/08/2009 and my evaluation version is always number 7100.

    Have you an idea?
    Regards.
    Guy

    PS; I don't see VS 2005 Redistribution.
    But opening control Panel I read:

    Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistribuable , and
    Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 ATL update KB973923
    Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:29 AM
  • Re TGS 1970,
    I add, since 14/07 and without update of Microsoft visual C++, FSX SP1+ SP2 was running very well under Win 7 RC.
    Regards.
    Guy
    Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:33 AM
  • Hi TGS 1970,

    My answer; No I do not run Windows Seven Update recently but for me it runs automatically each switch on. I have seen my historical for Updates and don't see the VS2005 redis update from 14/07/2009 to 03/08/2009 and my evaluation version is always number 7100.

    Have you an idea?
    Regards.
    Guy

    PS; I don't see VS 2005 Redistribution.
    But opening control Panel I read:

    Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistribuable , and
    Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 ATL update KB973923

    VS2005 is a short name Visual Studio 2005, Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 is a part of Visual studio 2005 (just like Excel is part if Office).

    The "Redistribuable" part is shared libaries for programs (like FSX) written in the C++ computer language (FSX is written in the C++ language and Visual C++ 2005 was the compiler used to create the executables, and DLL [that is what you buy and is on you DVD installation disks]). In order for FSX to work, it has to to install "Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistribuable " (that is a C++ libraries, not the C++ compiler).

    Do there is a bug in the C++ libraries, the problem will occur in any other software that uses these libraries (such as FSX and many other software).

    In short the problem is not in FSX or W7, but in the VS2005, that you already have updated.




    Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:45 PM
  • Re TGS 1970,
    I add, since 14/07 and without update of Microsoft visual C++, FSX SP1+ SP2 was running very well under Win 7 RC.
    Regards.
    Guy

    Now I don't understand you. So if FSX worked fine without the VS update, what is your problem in the first place ?
    Wednesday, August 05, 2009 9:53 PM
  • Hi tgs 1970,

    If you look above to the first question of this thread you can see it's my thread and I am here to help , if it is possible, those who get issues with FSX running under Win 7. And it's why I am asking to those that encounter issues to say what happens and to see if it is possible to help them.

    I hope you understand I am in retirement, I don't want to get money only to help others persons that have issues.

    Regards.
    Guy
    Thursday, August 06, 2009 5:23 AM
  • Hey guys,

    I am having installation issues on Windows 7 64-bit, I get the following error when installing (right at the start):

    "1628: Failed to complete installation"

    If you know of this, have a solution, etc, please respond to my thread:
    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/w7itproappcompat/thread/4caf88e4-6dcc-429f-a15f-d5f4c19f7e52
    Thursday, August 06, 2009 1:43 PM
  • Hi KidBomba,

    I am sorry but you are a little bit laconic with your issue. Also could you tell us what configuration you are using?
    For example have you one or two hard disks? if yes does the first one run vista or xp as Operating system? Are they disconnected when you try to install Win 7 RC etc etc.....

    Regards.
    Guy
    Thursday, August 06, 2009 9:35 PM
  • Friday, August 07, 2009 2:10 AM
  • Ok KidBomba,

    I am glad to see TGS 1970 gave you the adress where you have found solution.

    Regards.

    Guy
    Friday, August 07, 2009 6:16 AM
  • I have no problems with FSX in Windows 7 64-bit. Works great, is faster and I love it!
    # Windows 7 Ultimate (6.1.7600)
    # Gigabyte GA-MA790XT-UD4P
    # AMD Phenom II X3 710, 2.73 GHz; L1 Cache: 128KB+128KB, L2 Cache: 3 x 512 KB, L3 Cache: 6MB, (Multiplier: 13.0x External Clock: 200 MHz)
    (OC'ed from FSB 200 MHz to 211, 2.59 to 2.73, Phenom II X3 710 to Phenom II X4 10)
    # Kingston Hyper-X (2x2GB) RAM (DDR3-1800/PC3-10600)
    # EVGA GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 896MB 448-bit GDDR3
    (OC'ed from 576/1242/999 to 754/1531/1211)
    # EVGA GeForce 9500GT 128-bit GDDR2 (OC'ed from 550/1375/500 to 666/1665/540 - Dedicated to PhysX)
    # SeaGate SATA (2x620GB) NVIDIA Stripe 640GB
    # Maxtor IDE 150GB # ScanDisk & A-DATA USB (4GB+2GB ReadyBoost)
    # My Windows Experience Index (WEI) Score is: 7.3.
    Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:45 PM
  • Hi,
    For a friend of mine I have done another big computer with:
    5 monitors 3 of them are attached to a Matrox 2Go triple Head digital edition(for the 3 D view 145 to 165° with bezel management) and graphic card associated is NVIDIA 285 GTX, and 2 others are connected on a second graphic card NVIDIA GF 9800 GT to put in windowed mode or full screen different gauges.
    Processor is Intel core 2 duo E8500 3.16GHz/6Mo/SK775
    RAM is 8 Go corsair DDR3 1600
    Motherboard ASUS striker II Extreme DDR3.
    This computer is only to make simulations under FSX.
    Same problem with windows related on thread here  http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/fr-FR/w7itprogeneral/thread/1be249f6-8a56-44e3-ba86-5a6f61531145

    But some issues as "erreur irrecuperable" in English I think : "Fatal error"(FSX had to reinit itself or you have to shutdown and re launch FSX) have disappeared  now all fligts you call are flights registered under win7 RC only and not registered under Vista and call under win seven RC may be this issue was done by that or another thing.......I don't know.....

    Regards.
    Guy
    PS Just 2 questions Tylerward ; How much Monitors have you? And what is your FPS score with FSX for example at LFPG?
    Tuesday, October 27, 2009 6:18 AM
  • I confirm Darryl's issue.

    I have Flight Simulator X SP2 running on Windows 7 RC build 7100 x64

    Core i7 920 d0 stepping
    6GB ram
    ATI 4870 x2

    When clicking / viewing the top menus and the right click menus over and over, FSX crashes and restarts.

    Each crash displays the following in the event viewer:

    Usually: "Faulting module name: uiautomationcore.dll"
    Sometimes: "Faulting module name: unknown"

    The following adjustments do not prevent the crash occuring:

    Running as administrator
    Running DEP mode
    Running in Windows XP SP3 Compatibility mode
    Running in Windows Vista SP2 Compatibilty mode
    Uninstalling Add ons

    I suspect that it has something to do with changes in the UI Automation between Vista and Windows 7.

    =====

    I also confirm the other bug in this thread: Adding Scenery Library, and the corresponding workaround.
    Hello. I have the same problem. Is there any way how to solve it? Thank you.
    Friday, October 30, 2009 9:33 PM
  • Hi silver 147,

    I began this thread long time ago but for this two issues we have'nt solutions and I hope this thread will be seen by Win 7 RC team.....
    Some computers run without these issues and others have, and for instant no solution.

    May be the commercial editions Win 7 do not have these issues but I have no information about that.
    Regards.
    Guy
    Monday, November 02, 2009 7:23 AM
  • Hi Guy,

    I have commercial win7 Professional.

    CPU: Intel c2d E8400, GPU: Gigabyte GTX260 OC, RAM: A-Data vitesta EE 2x2GB 800MHz
    Monday, November 02, 2009 7:47 AM
  • So

    seems like is no solution with the comercial version of Windows 7.... in the nexts days i will install the comercial version of Windows 7 Ultimate in 32 and 64 bits, and look if are some kind of solution.


    Chears
    Monday, November 02, 2009 4:46 PM
  • So what do you recomend me to do with this problem or how to solve it?
    Monday, November 02, 2009 5:58 PM
  • We have two options... wait for a solution of Microsoft or come back to XP or Vista

    Tuesday, November 03, 2009 3:40 AM
  • Ok, thank you :)
    Tuesday, November 03, 2009 8:04 PM
  • Hi there,

    have a similar issue, i use the commercial version of Win7 Pro 64bit with FSX Sp2 (without Accleration Pack).

    By using Posky-Planes and other 3th party planes the BEX-Error with "Faulting module name: unknown" (only!) occured with the crash to desktop. I tried to run the FSX as admin, deactivated the DEP and copy another uiautomationcore.dll-File. Nothing works.

    Problemsignatur:
      Problemereignisname:	BEX
      Anwendungsname:	fsx.exe
      Anwendungsversion:	10.0.61472.0
      Anwendungszeitstempel:	475e17d3
      Fehlermodulname:	unknown
      Fehlermodulversion:	0.0.0.0
      Fehlermodulzeitstempel:	00000000
      Ausnahmeoffset:	00000000
      Ausnahmecode:	c0000005
      Ausnahmedaten:	00000008
      Betriebsystemversion:	6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.48
      Gebietsschema-ID:	1031
    
    Zusatzinformationen zum Problem:
      LCID:	1031
    Win7 and FSX are both in german so it seems this is not an language issue. Hope MS will come up with a solution.

    System: Intel E6750, 4 GB RAM in Dualchannel-Mode, Gigabyte P35C-DS3R F.11, Nvidia 8800 GTS
    Tuesday, November 03, 2009 8:10 PM
  • I doubt it very much if any solution/patch for this problem wil be forthcoming, given the the FS team are basically non-existant.

    Going back to XP or Vista from Win 7? No ways.
    Tuesday, November 03, 2009 10:34 PM
  • Is any one test FSX with the 32 bits version of W7??



    Chears
    Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:46 PM
  • My SYSTEM SPECS:
    Windows 7 Ultimate 32-bit (6.1, Build 7600) (7600.win7_rtm.090713-1255)
    Compaq Presario CQ40-404AX Notebook PC
    AMD Turion X2 Ultra Dual-Core Mobile ZM-84 X2, 2.3GHz
    Memory: 4096MB RAM
    Available OS Memory: 3070MB RAM
    DirectX Version: DirectX 11
    ATI MOBILITY RADEON HD 3450
    IDT High Definition Audio

    It Crashes with BEX (Buffer Overflow) with error code 0xc000005 (Acess Violation).
    Disabled DEP

    It seems like MS windows 7 Team is going to blame FS ACES team. The ACES team is completely sacked and since it works with vista, MS Windows 7 team should help out on this instead of blaming ACES team. Anyway, Both are also MS porducts. Up till now no support memeber is helping us on this. They are just RELUCTANT to help.

    Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM
  • I did not install FSX in Program files. I installed outside in its own folder and in runs great in Windows 7 prof 64 bit. Run the software as Admin.

    Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:44 PM
  • Same issue here: Windows 7 64-bit, FSX all SPs. Crashes when driving around in the menus...
    Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:49 AM
  • Is any one test FSX with the 32 bits version of W7??



    Chears

    Yes I just clean installed Windows 7 32bit from XP MCE. FSX runs great when using DX9 but not so great with DX10 enabled. I also noticed some strange graphical issues that disappeared entirely when I switched off Dx10 preview. FPS also jumped from 20 or so when running Dx10 to 30+ with Dx9.

    System specs:

    Windows 7 Ultimate 32bit (Old OS WinXP MCE 2005 SP3)
    Asus P5LP-LE motherboard (BIOS version 3.19)
    Pentium D 930 3.0GHZ
    2GB RAM PC2-DDR2-5300
    Maxtor 300GB SATA HDD
    ATI Radeon HD 4670 512mb (CCC-9.11)
    Sound Blaster Audigy SE
    DVD/CD-RW DL HP-840b
    DVD/CD-ROM
    Monday, November 30, 2009 3:16 AM
  • Hey gang, I just recently started to experience the CTD fatal error from FSX.  I was running FSX fine in Vista Ultimate x64 and had no problems what-so-ever.  I did some hardware changes, mostly processor, went from an AMD Athlon 64x2 6000+ to a quad-core AMD Athlon II X4 620 3.1 ghz.  and increased my memory.  I had to reinstall windows and went with 7 x64 and the problems began with FSX.  and ever since I have not been able to get back to my working state with FSX.  It has crashed with the CTD error in 7 x86, x64 and Vista x86,x64.  It has also done this with basic install and all SP's including Acceleration.  I hated to reinstall as it takes me almost a week to reinstall all my 3rd party apps and add almost another 1,500 aircraft.  As for MS fixing this issue, I've learned this from the Xbox 360 issues, they could care less if it's fixed or not.  If it's fixed then you won't buy upgraded software in the hopes of fixing an issue with what you have.  maybe after the Aces guys get up and running and put out their first simulator, we could ask them to possibly help with this issue as they are the ones who designed it.  MS answer to everything seems to be reinstall the software. then you run into the activation problems if you do it to much trying to fix their error.  And this results in phone calls to customer service who want to know why your trying to activate a product so many times.  I told a CS rep last time that I was trying to fix their errors, but apparently they don't give a s*#t about it.  So as for the CTD error, I will continue to try new combinations of software and will let you know what i find.  My system specs are below:

    Dual boot Win Vista Ultimate x86/Windows 7 Ultimate x64
    Biostar TA790GX 128MB motherboard
    AMD Athlon II X4 620 3.1 ghz
    16 GB Ram
    2 WD 650GB SATA HDD (1 dedicated FSX/installs over 350GB of programs installed for FSX), 1 Seagate 160GB SATA HDD (FSX Storage), 1 Toshiba 60GB SATA HDD (downloads)
    NVIDIA GeForce 9800/9800 GTX+
    X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1TY Pro Series Sound Card
    Hitachi/LG GBC-H20L 6x Blu-ray BD-ROM/16x DVD±RW DL SATA Drive w/LightScribe
    Toshiba CDDVDW TS-H652H
    Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:58 PM
  • Hi All

    I am having a major problem with my FSX. Whenever I fly about halfway through (short haul flight) the menus seem to crash and I get a message that a fatal error has occured. I get not other information on the problem from the fatal error message. My system specs are:

    Win 7 x64 (not beta)
    Asus M3A78-Pro Mobo
    AMD Phenom x3 CPU
    4GB DDR2 800 RAM
    2 HDDs. 1x 190GB (D Drive) and 1x 500GB (C Drive) FSX installed on C Drive.
    ASUS EAH4670 Graphics Card 512 MB

    I was wondering is there is a fix and what I should do. Parts of this thread are quite confusing. I have tried some of the troubleshooting wizards built into Win7 but have had no luck.
    Please help me
    Thanks
    Monday, December 28, 2009 11:18 AM

  •      i was running fsx problem free on xp 32 bit and it wasnt untill i started adding traffic etc that i started having these issues, since then i have had fsx on xp 32, vista 32, and w7 64, all showed the same problems after i had added freeware planes and traffic files, it seems to me that thisctd thing is more caused by the traffic showing up on the menus then from something inside fsx, i dunno. i have been thinking that maybe a payware traffic program might not have the problems. hope i didnt cloudy the waters further.
    Monday, January 18, 2010 9:59 AM
  • You are not alone!!!! I have charished Microsoft's Flight Sim since the first one and FSX is by far the most realistic. I also run Win 7 and have the same problem..... Here is what I found out.

    The problem is caused by the application: uiautomationcore.dll (a windows file) This file was also in Vista but was a version earlier. I took a copy of the uiautomationcore.dll from a Vista machine that I have and I placed it in the FSX directory (\program files(x86)\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulation X\ by default). Since microsoft's search pattern for files starts with the directory you lauch the application in before searching \windows\system32, the FSX application will use the older uiautomationcore.dll file with the newer windows components (namely Desktop Windows Manager) using the newer copy of the same dll file.  This worked in part. For  the most part crashing FSX was a lot harder with the old DLL file, but not impossible. After hours of experimentaion, I came to realize that when I attempt to bring up certain menu items, FSX seems to want to stop the desktop windows manager. When this occures, FSX freezes and UIautomationcore.dll crashes.

    So, I started examining the errors and I realized that in my event viewer a message occured after each uiautomationcore.dll error stating that FSX was trying to shut down the Desktop windows Manager. I shut it down manually then fired up  FSX and Walla! Problem solved.

    (C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X

    \)

    • Proposed as answer by HawgDawg4Life Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:23 PM
    Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:21 PM
  • Hi.

    I'm having problems with FSX SP2. I built a new computer (specs below) and installed FSX SP2 (no addons yet) and it crash Win 7 randomly. It happens more when I'm in the airport for take-off or in final approach for landing but it can happens any time with any aircraft. It start making a short high pitch pop noise and in one of those noises the display freeze but I can still hear the sound. I can't do nothing like going to desktop or task manager, neither the cap-locks or num-lk keys works. I have to reset the PC manually. I hope anyone can help. I really enjoy FSX and now that I configured a new PC i can't play it. Thanks for any help.

    My PC Specs:
    mobo: EVGA E758-A1 3-Way SLI (x16/x16/x8) LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel
    cpu: Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core
    ram: OCZ XMP Ready Series 12GB (6 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
    video: EVGA 896-P3-1257-AR GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 Superclocked Edition 896MB (Primary and second monitor)
              EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 210 512MB DDR2 PCI-Express 2.0 (Third Monitor)
    sound: EMU 1820m (Audio Recording)
    hard disks: 3x SAMSUNG 500GB 7200RPM SATA / 2TB HITACHI 7200RPM SATA

    os: Windows 7 Ultimate x64

    Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:49 PM
  • THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE UIAUTOMATIONCORE.DLL FILE CAUSES OTHER DLL FILES TO MALFUNCTION!

    Alright folks, I have the fix---after a whole year of fidgeting and spending $600 on every stinking version of windows out there-XP 32 bit. XP proffessional 64, vista HP32, vista HP 64, Win 7 32 & 64 RC, Win 7 32 enterprise and Win 7 64 bit professional (my primary FSX OS on which I did the succesful fix). As simple as it may sound this works. I tried replacing the Uiautomationcore.dll file and FSX would still crash albeit after a while. And if it wasn't that dll file then it would be some other file like ntdll. So I tried completely deleting the uiautomationcore.dll file from both the syswow64 and system 32 folders. Now I am playing FSX with graphics and traffic settings set to custom and turned all the way up while  I have aircraft, scenery and weather settings turned to ultra high and no crashes for two days!!!! I can click in and out of any menu such as the MAP or virtual flight path or change aircraft mid-flight or change weather mid-flight with no crashing. I have tried every which way to get FSX to crash and I just cannot get it to!

    FSX really is awesome when it works.

    HERE IS THE FIX: You may have to take ownership of the files if windows stops you from deleting the file. Open CMD prompt and right click to run as administrator and then type in exactly as below substituting your windows login username where it says username:

    takeown /f C:\Windows\System32\uiautomationcore.dll

    cacls C:\Windows\System32\uiautomationcore.dll /G username:F

    takeown /f C:\Windows\Syswow64\uiautomationcore.dll

    cacls C:\Windows\Syswow64\uiautomationcore.dll /G username:F

    Now you can just navigate to your syswow64 and system32 folders in windows explorer and after backing up the UIautomationcore.dll files just delete them from your computer. (Remember to delete the Uiatomationcore.dll file in ure FSX folder also if you installed it as the fix in other posts.)

    If you have Nvidia cards download their latest driver also. Its got a huge performance increase. The only problem I have had by deleting the UIautomationcore.dll file is that if I exit FSX completely while in flight my windows desktop becomes dysfunctional and I have to restart. If I first end the flight and then exit FSX I have no problem. I have four different OS's on seperate partitions on my computer built specifically for FSX. There is no point in playing FSX on any 32 bit version of windows because you will get more out of FS 2004 than FSX on a 32 bit system.

    Now, since I have 12 gigs of RAM, dual 9800GT's, intel core i7 920 running at stock (cuz MSI MB's suck for OC), and three 22" monitors-- instead of getting 10 FPS (on my 32 bit windows 7)I get 25 FPS on my 64 bit Windows 7 with two virtual cockpit windows on two monitors and all of my instruments on the 3rd monitor. BTW 6 GB (if you have tri-channel) or 8GB Ram (if you have dual channel) with a 64 bit OS is plenty-I just found my DDR3 RAM for dirt cheap at Microcenter a year ago. 4 GB is not enough as you will get OOM errors with settings even turned up halfway. No need to buy fancy graphics cards either because FSX is CPU intensive and doesn't really do well on the newer graphics cards. The 9800GT's are dirt cheap at like $70. Also definitely upgrade to the core i7.

    Please get the word out to all of our fsx friends!!!

    • Proposed as answer by gkair2 Wednesday, May 05, 2010 3:19 PM
    Wednesday, May 05, 2010 3:19 PM
  • GKAIR2, you're a genius!!

    IT WORKED FOR ME! I've been having identical problems to the ones explained in detail on this forum.

    I just deleted the uiautomationcore.dll (after backing it up). Problem solved!! It's fantastic! Flew a whole flight from Changi to Frankfurt using the menu's heavily and there were no problems!!

    Bloody fantastic!! Thanks again. I can play FSX on my WIN7 machine FINALLY!!!

    Tuesday, May 11, 2010 11:59 AM
  • Awesome! Glad to hear it works for you too!
    Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:29 PM
  • It's working!!!
    Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:34 PM
  • Hi

    I see you've managed to find a fix but I dont quite understand what you're supposed to do. How do you locate and back up the uiautomationcore.dll file? If you could help me I would really appreciate it. By the way would the fix work on windows vista? thanks

    -zander

    Friday, July 09, 2010 9:16 PM
  • I'm not sure about vista because vista has alot of stuff running in the background which will alter the games performance. You can download a free 90 day trial of windows 7 enterprise from here: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/cc442495.aspx. Have you tried the fix I posted above step by step? Thats as clear as I can make it. The UIautomationcore.dll files are located in those exact locations. If you still aren't sure then get a friend to do it. Its not very hard.

     

    Friday, July 09, 2010 11:09 PM
  • gkair,
    Your fix works, I'm sure of it, but I can't seem to get permission to delete the file. I did everything you said, and the responses the command prompt gives me when I type in the command seem to be accurate to what I'm trying to do, but when I try to actually delete the file, it says I need permission from myself.
    I tried to delete it via command prompt, and windows explorer, both run as administrators.

    I am running Windows 7 x64 Ultimate, which has only one account, who is an administrator.
    VERY confused as to why it isn't working, and would like your opinion on the problem. Thanks
    Friday, July 16, 2010 12:13 AM
  • Permissions-hmmm...

    Solution 1: Are you sure you entered the correct username (like mine was gkflyhigh) when you did the cacls command? This has to be the username you are logged on with...Not my area of expertise but here is a recommendation. Your computers permissions seem to have been changed from default by either the manufacturer or some program. What you can try doing is right clicking on the uiautomationcore.dll files and then clicking properties, then clicking the security tab and, then, if you did the CMD step correctly from the above post, you should be able to check the allow box for either administrator or owner...

    Solution 2: Not my area of expertise but here is a recommendation. Your computers permissions seem to have been changed from default by either the manufacturer or some other program. What you can try doing is right clicking on the uiautomationcore.dll files and then clicking properties, then clicking the security tab and, then, if the CMD step executed correctly from my older post above, you should be able to check the allow box for either administrator or owner...

    Solution 3:Now the simplest fix is that since you can have two operating systems running side by side on the same hard drive (EVEN WITH THE SAME KEY), you could do a clean install of windows 7 ultimate x64 on a second partition on your hard drive. Its not too hard to do this. In fact windows 7 has the partition tool installed on the disc (You just have to click on advanced  on one of the setup screens I believe). Bottom line:A clean install WILL do the trick. But its your call since you might have important stuff on your drive. You can google for more info on partioning if you dont already have multiple partitions on your hard drive.

    Please let me know how this goes for you.

    Friday, July 16, 2010 2:39 AM
  • Thanks for taking your time to reply.

    I think I'll just have to live with the error, I still can't delete the file, and not taking the time to install another OS just to delete a 734kb problem.

    I did what you suggested gkair, I looked at the security tab, but couldn't find a checkbox that switched from "owner" to "administrator". I did, however, discover that EVERYTHING seems to be as it should. I own the file, I am an administrator, the security tab even said I could rename or delete the file. But I can't. Again, thanks for your time.

    **EDIT**
    LOL
    K, so I was messing around with the folder, trying to delete the file through various ways. I then got a message saying I needed permission from the FOLDER "system32" instead of my username. So, I performed your commands on the folder, and.. whaddya know? It worked! So happy right now :P thanks alot

    **EDIT**
    Ok.. now im pissed off
    Computer won't start. Can't use install disc because it just goes to seven's cute little system repair (which doesn't work)
    I dont think deleting the uiautomationcore has anything to do with this problem, but..
    Haven't done anything else since my last restart.

    Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:24 PM
  • hello guys hello world,

    gkair2 Users Medals Users Medals Users Medals Users Medals Users Medals solution is definetely working , you gotta try that, it will work (look on correct username your login name nothing else like username-pc ....)

     

    I already lost hope, but yesterday tried to do so strictly as gkair2 said.... it took me 1hour but finally it works, so dont give up tryin double-triple... re-check all commands you enter or all ways you tried... delete ALL uiautomationcore.dll (also the one in you flight sim folder, if you followed one of the other solutions...)

    Hints:

    If you are unable to delete those uiautomationcore.dlls should down win explorer (through task manager) but start cmd -as admin !!!! before,type del uiautomationcore.dll (first go per cd.. or cd to the correct folder)

    afterwards deleting is possible otherwise windows explorer is flaming about some error... -> still dont work? 

    If done so and still havin probs try to change the owner and authorisation properties (full control) in the security thumbnail before.

    If direct deltin still dont work try to cut them out to desktop for example and delete them via WIN7 save mode

     

    Summary: delete both automationcore dlls and it will work

    ( unless you have different problems due to graphic card, temperature ...)

     

    regards from germany
    Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:43 AM
  • thanks for the reply! ive located the files but I just need to know how do you "back them up"? thanks!!
    Friday, July 23, 2010 11:58 PM
  • Just save them to a cd, dvd or usb. Heck since the files or so small just email them to yourself as attachements and that way you'll never lose them and always have them handy.

    Good luck

    Saturday, July 24, 2010 3:38 PM
  • G'day Guy,

                      Mate, I agree regarding viewing FSX as not a game. I'm not a real Pilot however I used to have to jump out of real Aircraft, mainly C130 H and E models. Early in my career we used C130 A models + Caribou A/C ( Vietnam 71)

                     I approach FSX as if it were a real Flight Deck. For those "Combat Flight Simmers" I respect their right to play at flying a "CAP" mission or whatever but nothing beats real rounds being fired at you. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a little escape every now and then but for accuracy and attention to detail I believe nothing beats flying an IFR flight in a relatively large commercial aircraft ( 737-8) and carrying out an ILS approach in zero visability! It really gets you sweating!

                    I use FSX in 64 bit and find absolutely no problems providing you've got the correct graphics card and set your frame rates according to how you want the sim to work. I have a "Dedicated" PC just for flight simming absolutely devoid of any of the stuff one tends to accumulate. I fly for AVAG - a virtual airline based in Australia. I don't know if you fly online or not but if you don't - give it a go, there are plenty of members happy to supply all the help you may need.

                                                                                                sadsack324.

    Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:47 PM
  • Hi, just if someone is interested, I deleted uiautomationcore.dll but then I started having randomly issues with CTDs with ntdll.dll (after about 20 minutes or so) .... anyway, I thought it might something different and reinstalled Windows 7 64 bit completely with FSX Acceleration. However, even after the reinstall I got the ntdll.dll CTDs... I then copied the Vista uiautomationcore.dll to the FSX folder and see... stable... so deleting might solve some peoples issues. Mine didn't but caused others... for me, copying the Vista on to FSX works (happy)...
    Wednesday, August 18, 2010 11:29 AM
  • GKAIR2: you're the man! After applying this fix, never had any crash since. Great job.

    For those who want guidance applying , see  http://virtualfsx.wordpress.com/2010/08/10/fsx-crashes-running-uiautomationcore-dll/

     


    • Edited by JanVaane Thursday, September 22, 2011 7:54 AM
    Monday, October 04, 2010 7:14 AM
  • yeah ok man.I tryed your sugestions here and it worked VERY well..... except ONE thing. There is a scenery from ORBX it is called PNW(pacific northwest) and the problem is around SEATTLE. Every time i try to approach KSEA airport from the northwest, i get a FATAL ERROR. Even when all the other problems are gone for good, THIS airport here will NEVER gona be fixed, i am preaty sure about this. Go ahead if you like and download it yoself to see what i meen. You are ALWAYS gona get a fatal error no mater what !!!!!
    Sunday, August 21, 2011 4:21 AM