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Windows 8 Hyper-V Virtual Machine Management Service

    Question

  • So I've recently switched from Server 2008 R2 to Windows 8 Client RTM on my work station thanks to the addition of Hyper-V.  The transition has been fairly smooth with a few exceptions.  Before I get to my problem, my only real complaint is that the RSAT tools are useless for managing older Hyper-V hosts/clusters. 

    So after two weeks of use I encountered a problem.  I have two VMs created, one Ubuntu 12 and one Windows 7 (for the older RSAT tools :( ).  These machines has been shutdown for a few days and today I tried to start the Windows 7 machine.  I then received an error: "An error occurred while attempting to start the selected virtual machine(s)....failed to start worker process: Logon failure: the user has not been granted the requested logon type at this computer".  For a minute I considered adding my account to the logon as services GPO setting, but I really didn't want to.  So before going that far I tried to restart the "Hyper-V Virtual Machine Management" Service and all of a sudden I was able to start my VMs, YES!!

    So I solved my own problem, but my general question:  Are there know problems with Windows 8/Server 2012 Hyper-V Virtual Machine Management service?  I am now leery of solving my RSAT tools problem by upgrading my Hyper-V infrastructure to 2012.  I was bleeding edge with 2008 R2 Hyper-V/Clusters and it was a painful year or so of problems until stability was finally found.  Things are great now and I'm not sure I want to rock that boat.

    Thursday, August 30, 2012 3:19 PM

All replies

  • Be aware, you are running Hyper-V Client, not Hyper-V Server.

    They are a bit different.  For one, the RSAT tools work with Server, not Client.  (lots of forums posts about this).

    You will be able to manage Server with RSAT.  RSAT does not support managing Client (the OS, regardless of the presence of the Hyper-V role - at least not full management).


    Brian Ehlert
    http://ITProctology.blogspot.com
    Learn. Apply. Repeat.
    Disclaimer: Attempting change is of your own free will.

    Thursday, August 30, 2012 4:46 PM
    Moderator
  • Ok so as far as Hyper-V manager goes, I'm a bit confused then.  I enabled the "Client Hyper-V" feature of Windows 8 and it installed Hyper-V manager.  I cannot manage any other Hyper-V instances on my network.  All other Hyper-V hosts are 2008 R2 and I get a message:  "This version of Hyper-V manager cannot be used to manager servers running Hyper-V in Windows Server 2008 or ... R2".  This is because I am running "Client Hyper-V"?  If I was running Server 2012 instead, Hyper-V manager would manage 2008 Host servers?
    • Edited by pgutbrod Thursday, August 30, 2012 4:54 PM
    Thursday, August 30, 2012 4:54 PM
  • RSAT revision must match the target.

    2012 can manage 2012.  2008 R2 SP1 can manage 2008 R2 SP1 (it can also manage some features of 2012).  This is not a new thing, it has always been the case with RSAT.

    Client - RSAT is designed to Manage Server, not Client (that was my point there).  You can't install a bunch of Win8 clients, enable Hyper-V and manage them as if they are a bunch of Hyper-V Servers.  From forum comments this appears blocked. 

    You can locally manage the Client Hyper-V, and remotely the Server Hyper-V just fine.


    Brian Ehlert
    http://ITProctology.blogspot.com
    Learn. Apply. Repeat.
    Disclaimer: Attempting change is of your own free will.

    Thursday, August 30, 2012 5:00 PM
    Moderator
  • I understand what you are saying but that is not what I am trying to accomplish.   I do not want to remotely manage Windows 8 Hyper-V, I use hyper-v on my local machine for testing.  I'm trying to manage 2008 R2 Hyper-V servers, in a cluster, from a Windows 8 client machine. That is the whole point of RSAT, right?  Not only can I not use Hyper-V manager but Failover Cluster Manager doesn't manage older clusters either.  This, in my opinion, is a large design mistake.  These RSAT problems are probably better served under a different forum, I'd imagine.

    Here my concerns surround the reliability of Windows 8/Server 2012 Hyper-V management service.  Does this service differ between Client and Server Hyper-V?  If it does, maybe my concerns are less warranted, as Client Hyper-V's unreliability could be tolerated better than Servers.  If these services are the same, and I was unable to start/manage VMs on my servers, I'd be in a world of hurt. 

    Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:22 PM
  • RSAT tools have never been cross release compatible in any reliable way.

    The RSAT Management consoles on Client can manage Server.  The caveot is; of the same release level.

    2008 to 2008 R2 required a release of RSAT tools.  2008 R2 to R2 SP1 required a new release of RSAT tools.  This created that Vista / Windows 7 disconnect in RSAT tools that we all enjoyed as it took quite a while for the client RSAT tools to catch Server.

    This is similar, but not between client and server but rather a backward compatibility issue.

    For good or bad, software has never been good at looking backward, only focused on looking forward - and MSFT has always been one of the big software vendors that never looks backward.

    But, all that being said - this is definitely an issue that MSFT needs to at least speak to.  You are correct there.  Or else you have to manage your older environment with a matching Client or Server.  (or SCVMM as it stretches across the versions, at least a little).

    Not the answer that you want, but I anticipate it will be the answer.


    Brian Ehlert
    http://ITProctology.blogspot.com
    Learn. Apply. Repeat.
    Disclaimer: Attempting change is of your own free will.

    Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:31 PM
    Moderator
  • Just want to give some emphasis to this "issue": when using multiple core installations of windows 2012, windows 2008 R8, Windows 2008 I REALS NOT NOT want to have 3 different sets of tools to manage them. If I have to, the people creating that software are not really understanding the customers need and need to be replaced by some people that do. When I cannot manage the different versions of my OSs from a single client machine, using that software does not make any sense for me and our customers. That way I have to tell all my customers "Do not upgrade until you can upgrade every single legacy machine, because otherwise you will not be able to manage your servers from a single tool.". This is definitely not the message I want to give them. Backward compatibility was always a key feature for using Microsoft software (I still can run my 10 years old software on my brand new Windows 8 machine) - if this is not the way Microsoft wants to go on in the future, one major key factor to use that software is gone. May be I get into that trouble only because using the tools in a greater context now - and may be I would have had the same problems in the past, but today I need such compatibility, because I have to magange more and more servers that I cannot upgrade all in one step, so IMHO the people creating the RSAT tools should catch up with reality and simply use the old code for managing old servers. Also: if Windows 8 "Hype-V" is not the same "Hyper-V" as on the server, you should not name the management tool "Hyper-V-Manager". When I open a "Hyper-V-Manager" I expect it to be able to sart and top VMs on ANY Hype-V-Host - regardless of the version/release/patch-level. I'm sorry, but I'm REALLY disappointed about the ability of the RSAT/Hype-V-Managment-Development teal to do that little of abstraction and backward compatibility. It really cannot be that complex to issue some simple enumerate/start/stop communication to 3 or 4 versions of Hyper-V.
    Monday, September 24, 2012 8:23 AM
  • no one has commented on the other issue that was initially posted around the Hyper-V management service not starting on its own.

    I have seen this on both win 8 machines I use with hyper-v service installed. After a reboot the management service doesn't auto start, even though its set to auto start. Additionally, I see the same behavior with the Intel RST service and the windows Action Center service doesn't auto start. This happened in Dev preview and Customer previews as well.

    As for win8 RSAT hyper-v console managing older versions of hyper-v, I strongly recommend some sort of remediation. As mentioned in this thread RSAT is intended for Remote Server Administration. Windows 7 RSAT could manage Server 2008 and 2008 R2 both of which were different versions of hyper-V. 2012 hyper-v isn't that much different. The newest version the management console should be able to administer all older version of hyper-v.

    ps brains post really isn't an answer, more an observation.


    Tech with Alberta Education

    Monday, October 15, 2012 3:40 PM
  • The RSAT tools have always had a dependency on the underlying management infrastructure.  Whlie, yes, RSAT for Win 7 supported Server 2008 and R2 - there was a different version for both.

    And the RSAT for XP did not support 2008 or R2 - and at that time the feedback from customers was exactly the same as it is now.

    Win 8 / Server 2012 introduces a new namespace in the WMI / CIM world (at the management layer).  And this is where all the new functionality is exposed.  While Server 2008 R2 was an upgrade of the entire suite of management infrastructure.  The older version of the RSAT has no knowledge of this new namespace - however, the old RSAT tools work with SErver 2012 but only the former functionality is exposed (none of the new features).

    The end-user perception might be that the change is small, but under the hood it is actually a significant lift.

    Now, my personal take on this totally follows your statement.  There should be a refresh of the Win7 RAST that supports both.  And quite honestly the Win8 RSAT does / should manage older Servers (2008 R2).


    Brian Ehlert
    http://ITProctology.blogspot.com
    Learn. Apply. Repeat.
    Disclaimer: Attempting change is of your own free will.

    Monday, October 15, 2012 4:02 PM
    Moderator
  • no one has commented on the other issue that was initially posted around the Hyper-V management service not starting on its own.

    I have seen this on both win 8 machines I use with hyper-v service installed. After a reboot the management service doesn't auto start, even though its set to auto start. Additionally, I see the same behavior with the Intel RST service and the windows Action Center service doesn't auto start. This happened in Dev preview and Customer previews as well.

    As for win8 RSAT hyper-v console managing older versions of hyper-v, I strongly recommend some sort of remediation. As mentioned in this thread RSAT is intended for Remote Server Administration. Windows 7 RSAT could manage Server 2008 and 2008 R2 both of which were different versions of hyper-V. 2012 hyper-v isn't that much different. The newest version the management console should be able to administer all older version of hyper-v.

    ps brains post really isn't an answer, more an observation.


    Tech with Alberta Education

    I would agree, the original reason for my creating this post has really been ignored and I should have left my RSAT comments for another thread.  The post marked as answered, is as usual, not an answer.  There is a definite problem with Windows 8 Hyper-V Virtual Machine Management Service crashing and not starting all the time.  My VMs continue to run but I cannot control them until I start or restart the Hyper-V Virtual Machine Management service. 

    Intel RST is usually set for delayed start, but my experiences is that it does in fact usually start, just delayed by design. The IRST software does sometime show an error before the service starts, but after a few minutes it starts and is happy.

    Monday, October 15, 2012 5:57 PM
  • Brian is always a wealth of information, but I agree that his was NOT an answer to the question posted.  The main point of this thread is that 2012 seems to have a problem with maintaining services.  I have a 2012 install that can't seem to keep the Hyper-V Virtual Machine Management service going.  There are a couple of other services that seem to stop, without reason as well.  Does anyone else have any experience with this?

    Michael

    Tuesday, March 05, 2013 2:44 PM
  • I still have this problem and I've seen our Developer's Windows 8 Box do the same thing.  I've just learned to live with it by restarting the service.  It is pretty poor though!  I have a few Server 2012 test machines and a spare Supermicro server that have never experience the problem though.  I'm discouraged to hear you are having the same problem with 2012.  Unfortunately M$ has gotten so big its near impossible to get any real help, at least in a timely fashion.  The last iSCSI bug I came across took months of painful troubleshooting with support.  Fortunately it was found to be a bug and there was no cost.
    Tuesday, March 05, 2013 2:52 PM
  • On my drive in this morning I have been thinking about this.

    So.  Lets talk a bit about patterns here.

    The symptom: VMMS (virtual machine management service) stopping.  The most commonly observed cause for this (by far) is antivirus software.  Specifically AV software that does not have all the exclusions properly set.

    The next most common cause can be drivers (there was even a weird integration component issue during the RC timeframe).  And below that is hardware rooted.

    The VMMS is the control layer that sits above the hypervsior, and below the management OS (that OS you see when you are at the physical console).  It controls the VMs and the hypervisor.

    Normally when we troubleshoot Hyper-V we think Server and Server class hardware.  So we rarely think of things like power saving options in drivers, disks spinning down, and what not.  But.  In the driver world there is behavior like this and at times these things need to be turned off.

    In regards to hardware.  Windows 8 / Server 2012 has 'lit up' a number of hardware features that have been around, but not used.  And in the act of Windows using these features they are exposing issues in the hardware vendor implementations of features.  I have seen this all over the forums.  You want a really good example - search this forum on gigabyte motherboards.  A classic example of this.

    Personally.  I would begin looking in this order:  AV, update all firmware, disabling deep sleep NIC driver power saving settings, etc.  Especially since you report other services that stop.

    And, what does the event logs tell you about the service sotpping?  There is usually good details around the stop event of something else.  In Event Viewer - go into Applications and Services, Microsoft and poke thorugh all the numerous Hyper-V event logs.  Especially around the timestamp of the service stopping.


    Brian Ehlert
    http://ITProctology.blogspot.com
    Learn. Apply. Repeat.
    Disclaimer: Attempting change is of your own free will.

    Tuesday, March 05, 2013 3:46 PM
    Moderator
  • Just my two cents.
    Just brought up a new 2012 on new Dell R720 and I am also having the service stop (although clearly marked as running).
    I have had other services written by other vendors exhibit the same behavior but until now never had this happen with a MS Service.
    Until Microsoft can get it together, guess I will revert to a service stop / start job in scheduler kinda klunky but ya gotta do whatca gotta do.

    Gary 

    Tuesday, March 05, 2013 11:11 PM