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KB979909, KB982524, KB982168 keeps reappearing on server

    Question

  • We are using WSUS 3 Sp2 to distribute updates to our servers. On many servers the KB979909, KB982524, KB982168 updates keeps reappearing, even after a successful install.  According to other similar threads and statements by Lawrence Garvin, I believe this problem is related to the problems with the faulty KB976569. I’ve tried uninstalling KB976569, installed the three new updates successful, but just after few minutes, the update shield prompts me to install again.

    I’ve read many posts suggesting uninstalling all .Net, run cleanup fix, and install all .Net again. I did that in the early spring to fix the issues with the KB976569 update.  Is it really necessary to do this again? Any help…?

    Friday, July 02, 2010 6:40 AM

Answers

  • According to other similar threads and statements by Lawrence Garvin, I believe this problem is related to the problems with the faulty KB976569.

    Let's clear something up first .... KB976569 is NOT faulty, and never has been, nor will you find any post under my name where I have stated that it is faulty. In fact, KB976569 is a perfectly functional update.

    The *problem* that previously arose was because KB974417 was faulty, and was subsequently repaired with a revision two months ago because of that defect.

    But even notwithstanding the "faultiness" of that update, the majority of people affected were affected because they failed to install that SECURITY UPDATE (KB974417) when it was released in October, 2009. Those systems which were properly updated did not experience any issues with KB956569 whatsoever.

    KB979909 was revised on June 8th, 2010 -- you should verify that you have the correct revision approved.

    I have successfully deployed KB979909 to a WinXPSP3 system. I am deploying KB982168 and KB982524, individually, as I write this. I will post back if I encounter any difficulties, otherwise it can be assumed that I successfully deployed all three updates without issue.

     


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2010)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
    Tuesday, July 06, 2010 8:36 PM

All replies

  • Hi

    Yes, the solution is .Net, run cleanup fix, and install all .Net again.

    This will fix the issue, but make sure that full back of the WSUS server and WSUS database has been taken before proceeding with the task.

    Please find the below links for the more info and methods.

     

    http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en/vistawu/thread/fe366a5a-9cfd-4ad7-a355-814f21c7bed2

     

    http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en/vistawu/thread/c32072d6-275c-4b88-be07-80f328ddd906

     

    http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en/vistawu/thread/d6665347-02ef-42e3-a876-8b5ce48e32e7

     

    Regards

     


    Rajesh J S
    Friday, July 02, 2010 8:03 AM
  • Hi Rajesh

    I’m sorry to say this, but I’m very reluctant on removing all .Net, run fix, and install again. Last time I did this on my web server, there were several settings that I had to correct afterwards. This procedure helped back in March, so why do I have to do it again? Nothing .Net related changed on the server since. This is absolutely not an acceptable procedure every time Microsoft releases a new .Net update. There must be an easier way to resolve this problem once and for all. Why don’t MS make a fix-util that just corrects the few troubled files, instead of uninstalling and reinstalling the whole .Net suite.

    Regards

    Friday, July 02, 2010 10:34 AM
  • Hi Rajesh

    I’m sorry to say this, but I’m very reluctant on removing all .Net, run fix, and install again. Last time I did this on my web server, there were several settings that I had to correct afterwards. This procedure helped back in March, so why do I have to do it again? Nothing .Net related changed on the server since. This is absolutely not an acceptable procedure every time Microsoft releases a new .Net update. There must be an easier way to resolve this problem once and for all. Why don’t MS make a fix-util that just corrects the few troubled files, instead of uninstalling and reinstalling the whole .Net suite.

    Regards


    I agree this "Fix" is unacceptable. Give us a tool to clean it up.
    Tuesday, July 06, 2010 6:55 PM
  • According to other similar threads and statements by Lawrence Garvin, I believe this problem is related to the problems with the faulty KB976569.

    Let's clear something up first .... KB976569 is NOT faulty, and never has been, nor will you find any post under my name where I have stated that it is faulty. In fact, KB976569 is a perfectly functional update.

    The *problem* that previously arose was because KB974417 was faulty, and was subsequently repaired with a revision two months ago because of that defect.

    But even notwithstanding the "faultiness" of that update, the majority of people affected were affected because they failed to install that SECURITY UPDATE (KB974417) when it was released in October, 2009. Those systems which were properly updated did not experience any issues with KB956569 whatsoever.

    KB979909 was revised on June 8th, 2010 -- you should verify that you have the correct revision approved.

    I have successfully deployed KB979909 to a WinXPSP3 system. I am deploying KB982168 and KB982524, individually, as I write this. I will post back if I encounter any difficulties, otherwise it can be assumed that I successfully deployed all three updates without issue.

     


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2010)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
    Tuesday, July 06, 2010 8:36 PM
  • To Lawrence: I’m sorry to have misunderstood which KB patch that was faulty, but nevertheless I still have problems with installing the .Net patches.

    Since I tried to fix the problem with KB974417 before, by uninstalling and reinstalling in correct order, I find it annoying to have to do this again, because of installation problems with KB979909, KB982524 and KB982168. If I’m among “the majority of people that failed to install KB974417 when it was released”, there must be a majority of people that have the same problems as I. Since the Microsoft resolution, which is to uninstall all .Net, clean up and reinstall in right order, is tried and still giving problems, I’m not sure what to do now. Any help…?

    Wednesday, July 14, 2010 7:44 AM
  • I still have problems with installing the .Net patches.
    That's not all that unusual. My first suggestion is to treat all .NET Framework udpates as *exclusive* updates. Do not install them in bundles with other updates; do not install themon machines with logged on users -- particularly those which likely have Framework-based applications running.
    Since I tried to fix the problem with KB974417 before, by uninstalling and reinstalling in correct order, I find it annoying to have to do this again, because of installation problems with KB979909, KB982524 and KB982168.
    That's part of my point. I'm not aware of any requirement to uninstall KB974417 to install these other updates, and personally I did not have to do that.
    If I’m among “the majority of people that failed to install KB974417 when it was released”, there must be a majority of people that have the same problems as I.
    Well, luckily you're not among the "majority".. because the majority of people DID install that Security Update in October, 2009, when it was released. The primary group of people affected by this issue were people trying to apply a year's worth of updates to newly imaged machines, or trying to catch up machines that had not been patched at all in the past six months.
    Since the Microsoft resolution, which is to uninstall all .Net, clean up and reinstall in right order, is tried and still giving problems,
    Well, first, I'm not sure what your source is for this particular resolution, or its characterization as a "Microsoft" solution. The post made on July 2, 2010 in this thread is not a "Microsoft" solution, and all three of the threads cited are from consumer support groups, not Technet Forums. Who knows if those instructions were even appropriate for those issues, but sometimes that's what the PSS people have in their magic little script books. In all of those instances, it looks to me like the "cleanup the .NET Framework" solution is being thrown out as a 'catch-all' solution, because it's easier than working through advanced-level diagnostic with home computer users.
    I’m not sure what to do now. Any help…?

    The first thing to do is properly identify the actual problem being experienced. The truth is, most likely, it has nothing at all to do with any particular update compatibility or update installation order, and most likely is just a standard complication of trying to install .NET Framework updates on machines that are in use.

    I would suggest this -- on an *IDLE* machine:

    1. Install KB979909 by itself.
    2. Install KB982168 by itself.
    3. Install KB982524 by itself -- and reboot (which this update requires).

    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2010)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
    Wednesday, July 14, 2010 6:33 PM
  • Lawrence: Thank you for finding time to answer. I truly appreciate your contribution. I like your structured approach and understand that you sometimes have to fight hard to pinpoint facts from undocumented statements. My knowledge on WSUS and patches is only a percentage of yours, but I hope you will respect my effort in trying to understand and learn more, and accept that, from my seat, it can be difficult, time-consuming and frustrating to see/understand what is going on.

     

    "I'm not aware of any requirement to uninstall KB974417 to install these other updates, and personally I did not have to do that."

    According to this tread: http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/winserverwsus/thread/b9ca8109-5e09-4acc-bef0-54658ca83c66

    Your own solution is to uninstall KB976569, then install KB974417, and then re-install KB976569.

     

     

    "I'm not sure what your source is for this particular resolution, or its characterization as a "Microsoft" solution"

    Perhaps I should explain my “baseline” more specific.

    Our web servers are, when patched, taken out of service, cleaned for user connections and only accessed by the patchadmin.

    Yes, back in the early spring I was catching up on several of our web servers, which had not been patched for some time. ____ happens – sorry to say – but Hey! Now I was trying to get up-to-date ;-) I ran into the KB974417 problem not installing, because the multiple patches from the WSUS server installed the KB976569 before the KB974417.  I made a MS support call and the MS supporter came up with this solution: “Uninstall all .NET, run cleanup tool, reboot, and install all .Net again but now in the correct order with KB974417 before KB976569” This is why I’m referring to this solution as the “Microsoft” solution.

    The solution worked, but was quite time consuming. Later I found out that there was an easier solution, as described above.  Now time went by, an in May the revised version of KB976569 came – only to keep reoccurring on the servers that already had the KB974417 installed! In late June and beginning of July came KB979909, KB982524, and KB 982168. All installing successfully, just to show up again few seconds later ‘ready to install’.

    On 2 servers I tried, before installing KB979909, KB982524, and KB 982168, to uninstall KB976569. Then installing the revised KB974417, but even though it installed successful, it still kept reappearing. So no luck on that solution.

    I have now worked my way through the web servers again. Uninstalling any .Net related, running clean up, and, as Lawrence recommended, installed every patch one by one. I have to adjust some settings on the IIS afterwards, but all patches install successful and does not reappear.

    Regards

    Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:25 PM
  • "I'm not aware of any requirement to uninstall KB974417 to install these other updates, and personally I did not have to do that."

    According to this tread: http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/winserverwsus/thread/b9ca8109-5e09-4acc-bef0-54658ca83c66

    Your own solution is to uninstall KB976569, then install KB974417, and then re-install KB976569.

    Yes for THAT SPECIFIC ISSUE affecting installation of KB976569 *ONLY*, and that 'workaround' is no longer valid because a revision to KB974417 was released on May 11th, 2010 -- over two months ago.

    The only way this particular point has any relevance is if KB974417 Revision 103 (the defective revision) is still approved for installation in your environment. If it is, then the correct resolution is to decline Revision 103, and approve Revision 104. If Revision 104 is approved, then the above instructions have absolutely no validity or reference to any other issues.


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2010)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
    Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:25 PM
  • I ran into the KB974417 problem not installing, because the multiple patches from the WSUS server installed the KB976569 before the KB974417. I made a MS support call and the MS supporter came up with this solution: “Uninstall all .NET, run cleanup tool, reboot, and install all .Net again but now in the correct order with KB974417 before KB976569” This is why I’m referring to this solution as the “Microsoft” solution.

    It is so unfortunate that you were directed to perform all of that unnecessary activity.. but I assure you those instructions are not the "official" Microsoft solution -- they were, at best, the misguided and overreaching instructions given to you by *one* undereducated and ill-informed technical support staff member.

    Now time went by, an in May the revised version of KB976569 came – only to keep reoccurring on the servers that already had the KB974417 installed!

    See... this is somewhat confusing... =KB976569= has never been revised. It was =KB974417= that was revised -- and KB976569 MUST be installed on systems, regardless of what revision of KB974417 was previously installed. The only change to KB974417 was to fix a bug that should have never existed in the first place because KB974417 failed to test to see if NEWER versions of the files were already installed. Now it does, and KB974417 will not detect as needed on a machine that has KB976569 already installed.

    If you experienced issues with KB976569 wanting to reinstall -- then that's an entirely NEW issue never before discussed in this forum to my knowledge.

    In late June and beginning of July came KB979909, KB982524, and KB982168. All installing successfully, just to show up again few seconds later ‘ready to install’.

    And thus, *THIS* problem is a continuing manifestation of your original, undiagnosed and unremediated issue observed with KB976569. So before you will be able to successfully do anything with KB979909, KB982168, or KB982524 -- first you will need to resolve this issue with installing KB976569 -- which based on your last paragraph seems to be addressing your issue.

    Whether or not the uninstallation of the .NET Framework and "cleanup" is or is not making any difference is anybody's guess -- but if the .NET Framework was corrupted by some other activity -- then the failure of KB976569 may well be attributable to that corruption, and uninstalling/reinstalling the .NET Framework to address your unique issues with KB976569 may well be the correct remedy for your machines.


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2010)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com

    Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:35 PM
  • Now time went by, an in May the revised version of KB976569 came ...

    See... this is somewhat confusing... =KB976569= has never been revised.

    I’m definitely not making this easy for you! Off course it was NOT the KB976569 that was revised, but the KB974417. I’m very sorry for my “spelling” mistake. My deepest apology.

    ... and KB974417 will not detect as needed on a machine that has KB976569 already installed.

    Does this mean that KB974417 is superseded by KB976569? And is KB976570 superseded by KB979909, KB982168, or KB982524?

    Friday, July 16, 2010 8:12 AM
  • ... and KB974417 will not detect as needed on a machine that has KB976569 already installed.

    Does this mean that KB974417 is superseded by KB976569?

    Not "officially" and that's part of the complication of this issue and what led to the original issue. KB976569 updates the same DLLs that KB974417 did, but KB976569 is not a security-related update, it is a compatibility-update. Microsoft policy for updates states that a non-security update cannot 'supersede' a security update, so even though KB976569 installs newer versions of the same files, because it did not fix any security-related issues in the later builds, it cannot be identified as "superseding" KB974417, even though, functionally speaking -- it does, in fact, do exactly that.

    And is KB976570 superseded by KB979909, KB982168, or KB982524?

    KB976570 is not superseded, and does not supersede anything, and neither do the other three updates. All are independent updates.

     


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2010)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
    Friday, July 16, 2010 5:58 PM
  • Hi,

     

    I'm from Brazil and still with the same problem. Uninstalling all .net framework its not a good option for me. Any other ideas?

    Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:02 PM
  • I've been having this same issue with one server running Enterprise 2003.  This machine, like all of the machines in our network is religiously updated every month so I doubt that any updates were missed, but that is not out of the realm of possibility.  I had originally waited a month or so to see if a fix would come through MS, but the fix that was released has not corrected the issue. so that being said, would it be possible to list in order to be sure I get this right what exactly needs to be uninstalled and then reinstalled and in what order?  I would really appreciate it...

    Wednesday, July 28, 2010 4:41 PM
  • I would suggest this -- on an *IDLE* machine:
    1. Install KB979909 by itself.
    2. Install KB982168 by itself.
    3. Install KB982524 by itself -- and reboot (which this update requires).

    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2010)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
    Wednesday, July 28, 2010 7:23 PM
  • How can you tell that 982524 & 982168 are installed?  I can't find them in the registry (usually under Uninstall).

     

    Tuesday, August 03, 2010 9:30 PM
  • How can you tell that 982524 & 982168 are installed?  I can't find them in the registry (usually under Uninstall).
    The conventional place to check is Add/Remove Programs (with Show Updates enabled), or Programs and Features (and select the option "View installed updates"). On Vista and later systems you can also go to Control Panel | Windows Update and select the option "View update history".

    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2010)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
    Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:40 PM
  • I wanted to thank Gavin for his suggestion on 7/28, but unfortunately this process did not work for me.  I was unable to install these updates individually through either Windows Update by dowloading the updates straight from MS.  Feeling frustrated I finally have unistalled the following from my machine

    1 .Net framework 3.5 SP1

    2 .Net Framework 3.0 Service Pack 2
    3 .Net Framework 2.0 Service Pack 2

    4 .Net Framework 1.1 Devices Update (should have written down the details on this, but failed to do so before uninstalling)

    After doing this I ran Windows Update, reinstalled .net, ran Windows update again and successfully installed all three updates, and all seems to be good now...All components and updates are verified as being installed after checking add/remove programs although .Net Framework 1.1 Devices update was not reinstalled, but I am certain that came down through windows update in the first place so I am guessing this update is no longer required....but to be safe if anyone try this

    Anyway...thought this might be helpful to anyone still fighting with this

    Saturday, August 07, 2010 8:45 PM
  • This is how I'm detecting 982524 & 982168, since they're both roll-ups of other updates, although I think some of them overlap.

     

    reg query hklm\software\microsoft\windows\currentversion\uninstall\{A3051CD0-2F64-3813-A88D-B8DCCDE8F8C7}.KB977354>nul
    if errorlevel 1 (
      rem 7/13/10 (1) Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 and .NET Framework 2.0 SP2
      rem Update for Windows Server 2003 and Windows XP x86 (includes 977374 and
      rem maybe 976769, .net 3.0)
      start /wait NDP30SP2-KB982524-x86.exe /passive /norestart
    )

    reg query hklm\software\microsoft\windows\currentversion\uninstall\{C09FB3CD-3D0C-3F2D-899A-6A1D67F2073F}.KB980773>nul
    if errorlevel 1 (
      rem 7/13/10 (2) Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 Service Pack 1 Update for Windows
      rem Server 2003 and Windows XP (includes 976765, 980773, & 976769, .net 2.0)
      start /wait NDP30SP2-KB982168-x86.exe /passive /norestart
    )

    Monday, August 16, 2010 3:37 PM
  • I have tried each of the above solutions to no avail. I am working with an XPSP3 machine, which is patched up to date, but has the continuously reappearing 982524 and 982168. I noticed the following things:

    Each of these updates is not a simple single update, but rather a combination:

    982524 (976576,977354)

    982168 (976765,980773,976769)

    I have downloaded them directly, and they appear to complete without any error.

    Neither the main KB names, nor any of their individual parts turn up in either the set of uninstall folders within the windows directory or the add/remove programs windows patch list.

    I have turned on MSI logging, but did not find anything in the logs which complained of a problem.

    Any ideas ?

     

    Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:48 PM
  • I am working with an XPSP3 machine, which is patched up to date

    If the machine is patched up to date, then these updates are already installed. Decline them and be done with it.

    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    SolarWinds Head Geek
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2012)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin

    Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:40 AM
  • I have experienced long term reappearance of 982524 and 982168.  I had them hidden on a Win 2003 machine but set about unraveling what's going on yesterday.

    My investigations suggest that the file on Windows.update site marked as ...524 is actually 977354.  (Indicated by cached files in %WINDIR%\SoftwareDistribution\Download and verbose update log files at %TEMP%.)  Note: the ...168 file seems to be OK from these same checks.

    There are files at Windows.download (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/default.aspx) that appear to be correct.

    I loaded them (both) manually and the logging looks correct.

    (Still waiting on a reply from support about how to remove the hidden updates from the, browser based, update interface on that machine.   Without running any more unnecessary updates. That update system does not show the manual updates.)

    SUMMARY:

    1. Check update download cache files and update logging.
    2. If seems to be the problem, try the manually installed files from the download (not update) site.
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 1:43 AM