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2008r2: Numeric Fields sort incorrectly in DNS MMC

    Question

  • Whenever I use the DNS snap-in (v6.1.7600.16385) in MMC (3.0, v6.1, build 7600), time-stamp dates sort incorrectly.

    For example, the following dates sort in the given order:

     

    1/14/2008

    1/18/2010

    1/20/2009

    10/1/2008

    10/15/2010

    10/2/2008

    2/4/2009

    It seems to sort each digit independently of its relevance as part of a date, month or year, and then sorts by date, month, year.

    Is there anything that I can do to resolve this?  Are MMC or Snap-In updates available somewhere?

    We were having an issue with records locked by domain admins in an inherited infrastructure.  This has been resolved, but in cleaning up the records I noticed the above sort issue.

    Thank you.

    mardi 23 novembre 2010 14:55

Toutes les réponses

  • I've noticed that the same thing occurs with IP addresses as well. For example, the below IP addresses sort in the given order:

    10.1.0.43

    10.1.1.113

    10.1.1.15

    10.1.10.102

    10.1.5.10

    mardi 23 novembre 2010 16:01
  • Hi,

     

    Thanks for posting here.

     

    This is a change in windows server 2008 R2, it sorts data alphabetically instead of numerically .

     

    Please refer to an old thread which discuss this change:

     

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/winserverManagement/thread/f1b686ad-824f-4c16-a66c-f9470a2dfa6d

     

    Thanks.

     

    Tiger Li

     

    TechNet Subscriber Support in forum

    If you have any feedback on our support, please contact tngfb@microsoft.com 


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.
    mercredi 24 novembre 2010 02:28
  • Hi Tiger,

    Thank you for the relply.

    The thread that you linked me to seems to just be other people experiencing the same problem.  Am I to understand that this is how it is supposed to work?

    It seems to be a 2+ year old bug that has not been resolved.

    Who do we need to contact to have the problem fixed?

    Thank you.

     

     

    mercredi 24 novembre 2010 14:31
  • Hi,

     

    Thanks for update.

     

    Like I mentioned , this is a design changing in new Windows server , MMC sorts data alphabetically instead of numerically. And it has been confirmed by Microsoft forum owner in the link I posted.

     

    Thanks.

     

    Tiger Li

     

    TechNet Subscriber Support in forum

    If you have any feedback on our support, please contact tngfb@microsoft.com


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.
    • Marqué comme réponse Tiger Li lundi 29 novembre 2010 10:02
    • Non marqué comme réponse m.wolfe lundi 29 novembre 2010 13:48
    jeudi 25 novembre 2010 02:37
  • Hi,

    If there is any update on this issue, please feel free to let us know.

    We are looking forward to your reply.

    Thanks.

    Tiger Li

    TechNet Subscriber Support in forum
    If you have any feedback on our support, please contact tngfb@microsoft.com


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.
    vendredi 26 novembre 2010 09:24
  • Can someone explain to me how the date sort in my first post is more useful than the typical year-month-date sort?

    I'd like to understand the reason for the "design change."

    Thanks.

    lundi 29 novembre 2010 14:01
  • Hi,

     

    Thanks for update.

     

    A workaround is reorganize and sort date by exporting these DNS records to excel.

    For the reason of this changing ,I am trying to involve someone familiar with this topic to further look at this issue. There might be some time delay. Appreciate your patience.

     

    Thank you for your understanding and support.

     

    Tiger Li

     

    TechNet Subscriber Support in forum

    If you have any feedback on our support, please contact tngfb@microsoft.com


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.
    mardi 30 novembre 2010 04:48
  • Thank you, Tiger.
    mardi 30 novembre 2010 14:44
  • Were you able to find out any additional information?

     

    Thank you.

    mercredi 22 décembre 2010 15:20
  • Hi everyone,

    Am I missing something fundamental here????

    Surely this is considered as a HUGE bug or design flaw? I just find these excuses ridiculous! So Microsoft are saying that ANY mmc snap-in containing a column with numeric data cannot be sorted numerically????

    If the decision to change the behavior of the mmc was to sort alphabetically then why not have say an advanced option that allows the user to change this property to be able to sort numerically. 

    Having to export to csv is just a cop out really.

    Is there anyone else out there who feels the same way??

    Cheers,

    Ben Loveday

    jeudi 10 février 2011 20:47
  • Ben, I believe the problem is only with the DNS snap-in.

    This seems to be a significant bug, which causes me some annoyance regularly, and has existed now for over 3 years.

    The problem is finding someone at Microsoft that cares AND has the power to change it.

     

    lundi 14 février 2011 18:52
  • Okay.. so granted, we can't easily change the sort order on either the IP or the Date, because it is controlled by the MMC which always wants to sort alphabetically -  What if instead of trying to fix the MMC, the DNS plug-in merely expressed these two items in ways that would sort correctly alphabetically?  

    The date:  express in YYYY-MM-DD format, 
    The IP, express in a format where Octets always have 3 digits by using leading zeroes?  so... 10.24.13.1 >>> 010.024.013.001 - it would be a kind of a pain pain to look at, but would always sort correctly.


    • Proposé comme réponse Steven Yarnot vendredi 1 avril 2011 19:18
    • Non proposé comme réponse m.wolfe vendredi 1 avril 2011 19:54
    vendredi 1 avril 2011 19:17
  • Okay.. so granted, we can't easily change the sort order on either the IP or the Date, because it is controlled by the MMC which always wants to sort alphabetically -  What if instead of trying to fix the MMC, the DNS plug-in merely expressed these two items in ways that would sort correctly alphabetically?  

    The date:  express in YYYY-MM-DD format, 
    The IP, express in a format where Octets always have 3 digits by using leading zeroes?  so... 10.24.13.1 >>> 010.024.013.001 - it would be a kind of a pain pain to look at, but would always sort correctly.



    Other MMC snap-ins can correctly sort IP addresses.  For example, the DHCP snap-in.  I don't know why we wouldn't want it to be fixed correctly if someone were going to make any changes at all.

    vendredi 1 avril 2011 19:58
  • The fortune 50 company I work for has just started moving to 2008 and I stumbled onto this bug a few months ago.   Before I found this thread and others related to the issue dating back to early 2008, I assumed that this must have been an over sight or something broken on my specific install and just a bug report would fix this, QUICKLY.  As others have found, this is not the case.  So then a business case was submitted for this issue.  We have some applications that rely on Microsoft DNS that cost the company in the order of $100,000 per minute when then are down.(I didn't design them.)  My business case simply stated that if it took a administrator 1 extra minute to fix 1 issue because of the sorting issue, or they created an issue because of the miss sorting of the data, the cost would be $100,000.  When you look at DNS replication time a simple mistake that gets replicated through AD could easily be in the millions of dollars.  All because a modern piece of software cannot sort numbers or dates.

    This was not a strong enough business case to justify fixing the broken sort.   It is pretty clear to me that they just don't care.  The business case is not exaggerated in any way and in fact it is probably under stated.  The fact that Microsoft is flat refusing to fix this broken product is absurd and it gets even more bizarre after a valid business case from just one of millions of companies using this product is presented.

    I would suggest that anyone reading this thread go and submit a bug report on the MMC.  Maybe if they get enough, it might get attention.

     

     


    mardi 17 mai 2011 20:07
  • The fortune 50 company I work for has just started moving to 2008 and I stumbled onto this bug a few months ago.   Before I found this thread and others related to the issue dating back to early 2008, I assumed that this must have been an over sight or something broken on my specific install and just a bug report would fix this, QUICKLY.  As others have found, this is not the case.  So then a business case was submitted for this issue.  We have some applications that rely on Microsoft DNS that cost the company in the order of $100,000 per minute when then are down.(I didn't design them.)  My business case simply stated that if it took a administrator 1 extra minute to fix 1 issue because of the sorting issue, or they created an issue because of the miss sorting of the data, the cost would be $100,000.  When you look at DNS replication time a simple mistake that gets replicated through AD could easily be in the millions of dollars.  All because a modern piece of software cannot sort numbers or dates.

    This was not a strong enough business case to justify fixing the broken sort.   It is pretty clear to me that they just don't care.  The business case is not exaggerated in any way and in fact it is probably under stated.  The fact that Microsoft is flat refusing to fix this broken product is absurd and it gets even more bizarre after a valid business case from just one of millions of companies using this product is presented.

    I would suggest that anyone reading this thread go and submit a bug report on the MMC.  Maybe if they get enough, it might get attention.

     

     


    How are you submitting a bug report, outside of opening a paid support case?
    mercredi 18 mai 2011 13:39
  • We have a premier support contract, so anything that is labeled as a bug doesn't get charged hours.  I am currently verifying that we did not get charged any hours for this issue.  If we did, I'm planning on threatening to open a bug report on very other Microsoft product that sorts dates asking that they will sort the same way as the DNS MMC.  Either the DNS MMC is a bug or every other date sort in the world is a bug.
    mardi 24 mai 2011 14:04
  • We have a premier support contract, so anything that is labeled as a bug doesn't get charged hours.  I am currently verifying that we did not get charged any hours for this issue.  If we did, I'm planning on threatening to open a bug report on very other Microsoft product that sorts dates asking that they will sort the same way as the DNS MMC.  Either the DNS MMC is a bug or every other date sort in the world is a bug.

    Any luck with getting Microsoft to update all of the other MMCs to use the new, improved date sort? ;)
    mercredi 8 juin 2011 23:36
  • I got them to vaguely, out of the side of their mouth say that there was no development what so ever going on with the DNS MMC, at all, for any reason.  

    Also, I did just run across this gem, for those of you that are trying to trouble shoot issues with this date sorting.

    "The Aging number in the DNS data gives hours since 1/1/1600 00:00."

    So it is stored as a whole number that could easily be sorted.   But really..   HOURS since 1600... Nice.

     

    This link has scripts to convert them into something slightly more useful....

    http://blogs.technet.com/b/networking/archive/2008/05/21/export-dns-records-to-excel-to-read-time-stamps-and-static-records.aspx


    mardi 1 novembre 2011 21:12
  • The IP's still sort via their ASCII values the DNS MMC(or whatever they renamed it to) in Server 8 beta.  I didn't have the heart to check on the dates.
    mercredi 18 avril 2012 20:07
  • Wow. This is attitude could be termed clinically insane. This is soooo unacceptable. 
    mercredi 31 octobre 2012 15:23
  • There is a workaround for the date sorting, anyway.  Just go into Control Panel->Region and Language, and set the "short date" format to "yyyy-MM-dd". That'll affect everything on your system that uses regional formats, but I don't really see that as a problem... 

    • Proposé comme réponse bulletlynn21 vendredi 5 juillet 2013 14:45
    lundi 1 juillet 2013 16:29
  • Hi,

     

    Thanks for update.

     

    A workaround is reorganize and sort date by exporting these DNS records to excel.

    For the reason of this changing ,I am trying to involve someone familiar with this topic to further look at this issue. There might be some time delay. Appreciate your patience.

     

    Thank you for your understanding and support.

     

    Tiger Li

    Hi Tiger,

    You have said the quoted thing above three years ago.  Any progress?

    vendredi 29 novembre 2013 10:33
  • I would like an answer as well or a better workaround... it is just absurd that the only sorting option for NUMBERS and DATES is alphabetically.
    mardi 3 décembre 2013 21:21