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WMS2011 direct connect station performance

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  • Why no one answering this thread?? 

    I have also experienced this poor graphic performance.... I will be visiting and bumping this thread every day .... until AT LEAST it is heard by Microsoft , I mean obviously we have problem here... how can it be ignored?

    By the way my server spec is

    Processor : i7 2600

    Motherboard : Asus P8Z68 PRO (3 Vga Card Slots) , It has an On-Board VGA too , but the troubled station is plugged into Dedicated VGA

    Memory : 16GB RAM

    VGA : HIS ATI 6790

    System Hard Disk : OCZ 120GB SSD Vertex Series

    Data Hard Disk : Seagate Baracuda 1TB

    Same thing with the above... At Maintenance mode, everything run perfectly well... when I switch to maintenance, EVERYTHING seems like not using the GPU at all ... (Yes, the station view, does not show black screenshot when a station is playing a video... so i think it uses CPU power instead)

    Why?

    • Modifié M4G1C14N vendredi 24 février 2012 16:48
    vendredi 24 février 2012 16:37
  • I have also installed this trial into other box with fastly different spec (AMD X2 and also Intel Pentium Dual Core DUO) , and exactly the same thing happened... it seems that nothing is being offloaded to GPU (The thumbnail view were not blank)

    Is there any registry settings I have missed?? Please help, My trial still have 55 days left, and I planned to make the purchase when I can make this works :(

    lundi 27 février 2012 03:05
  • Anyone please help....
    mercredi 29 février 2012 03:18
  • Just an update, I still haven't found a solution to the slow direct connected stations in normal mode problem. I've looked at the new version of the MPS2011 Deployment Guide (http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=18482) and they still claim on page 12:

    Direct Video Connected: Recommended for best video performance

    As demonstrated on my video uploads above, I get better video performance from the nComputing X550 units than from my direct video connected stations, so I assume that this is a problem with my setup and would love to get some feedback from Mike Gahrns or one of the other Multipoint Server team members?

    mercredi 29 février 2012 07:06
  • Anyone please help... I beg you...

    I have further test install this on notebook and also on another box (i3 based) , EXACTLY the same thing happened

    I have even memorized what I did :

    1. insert Trial Windows Multipoint 2011 DVD (burn from the Source on Microsoft)

    2. reboot

    3. press any key to enter the setup

    4. next -> agree -> choose harddisk partition (i have even deleted all partition to make sure nothing left on this system) -> next -> wait

    5. The system reboot -> wait again -> next

    6. Insert new Administrator password -> next

    7. the OS said that i need driver for my Graphic Card

    8. press CTRL+ALT+DEL -> login as administrator -> download Newest driver from ATI / NVIDIA (depends on my rig's graphic card) -> install -> restart

    9. this time the system didnt say anything, the login terminal is shown (a.k.a normal mode), login as administrator -> play video -> get choopy result on ONE station setup

    10. Go to multipoint manager -> click the maintenance mode -> CTRL+ALT+DEL -> login as administrator again -> play the same video, and get a great result

    Happened like this on ALL rigs, I have tested it on so many rigs that I think I have successfuly made sure that there is nothing wrong with my hardware, and at the same time I did absolutely nothing else (to screw up with the system) after fresh install, and EXACTLY the same result happened :( ... We are talking about 1 station setup , the normal mode is horrible :( ...

    Anyone please help... Or perhaps did I ask a wrong question... I should just ask

    IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE THAT HAVE INSTALLED MULTIPOINT 2011 AND CAN STILL GET A BUTTERLY SMOOTH HD VIDEO PLAYBACK at NORMAL MODE ??

    Please anyone... I just want to know what you did to get that result..... Please.....

    I will be checking this thread and keep replying until the answer is given... However I really need this before the trial period ended :(
    • Modifié M4G1C14N jeudi 8 mars 2012 03:45
    jeudi 8 mars 2012 03:43
  • Please  help, if you need more information just ask , i will coorporate
    jeudi 8 mars 2012 23:41
  • Anyone please help
    lundi 12 mars 2012 06:03
  • I dont mean to spam, But I will keep posting everyday to inform people viewing this that I am STILL desperately looking for solution to this problem before my Trial period runs out :( . I will be more than glad to stop though, if the representative from Microsoft can just simply state that the GPU acceleration is not supported or something along that line (a.k.a finding a solution is impossible)
    mardi 13 mars 2012 03:24
  • Did anyone know where I can get official support from the Microsoft? Looked like Forum is definitely not the right mean :(
    mercredi 14 mars 2012 02:00
  • Anyone reading this?
    jeudi 15 mars 2012 01:58
  • Hi,

    What video have yuo used to test with?

    I will try it on my multipoint systems.

    Ben

    jeudi 15 mars 2012 16:16
  • Hi Ben!

    For my test I've used an .mp4 file, I'm not sure about M4G1C14N?

    Thanks,
    John

    jeudi 15 mars 2012 16:19
  • Ok interesting would be worth finding something on the internet youtube or whatever that we could use as a common test video though.

    Ben

    jeudi 15 mars 2012 16:23
  • Ok this one got some action scenes, so lets all test this in 1080p for Normal vs Maintenance Mode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzJxmxYQaD0&hd=1
    jeudi 15 mars 2012 17:48
  • Thanks God.... Bless you Benn.. For my case, I was using a lot of file, so I have tried AVI (Raw) , AVI (DIVX / XVID) , MKV (h264) , MP4. My test is done at various level, 720p , 480p, hell even the 360p... I have downloaded latest K-Lite Codec Pack to play all of them, and have also tried multiple amount of Media Player such as but not limited to "VLAN Media Player" , "Windows Media Player" , etc..

    It seems that in ALL cases, the choppiness is truly apparent, and when i plug in additional station (to act as Administrator) , I can see that the Video Player station still giving a proper Screenshot instead of Blank Black Screen (which some say in other thread, indicate the uses of GPU Acceleration)

    And I have not seen any application that uses GPU Acceleration uses the GPU, for example AERO Theme, Photoshop CS5, 3DSMax, hell even Scrolling through web browser is a tiny bit choppy (a.k.a not as smooth as when we are Normal Mode)

    I concur from this point , that my rig operating system has failed to turn on the GPU Acceleration , the following questions will help me clarify :

    1. Is there any other way to detect if GPU Acceleration is properly used? Perhaps I can check it for you.

    2. Is this GPU Acceleration works only on certain GPU? I have tried this on ATI2600, ATI4650, ATI6790, Nvidia (i forgot the model), On Board Intel HD3000 (comes from i7)

    Again Thanks a lot for your help, I really really appreciate this, My trial period is still long, hopefuly I could find the solution I need before it expired, so that I can make up my mind if I should make the purchase or not :)

    vendredi 16 mars 2012 04:11
  • Oh My friend have also installed this on his notebook, which run a ATI Mobility Radeon 4650 / 4770 . And exactly the same thing occured, by the way, I have to tell you that we have not tinker with anything, all test are done RIGHT after a Full Formatted Fresh Install, so all setup should be at their Default Value. We uses the same sources downloaded from microsoft
    vendredi 16 mars 2012 04:15
  • Please try the youtube clip as posted above so that we are all testing from a common video.

    Thanks.

    Ben

    vendredi 16 mars 2012 09:55
  • Yes i have tried the youtube... and it is choopy even without fullscreen (worse in fullscreen)

    For good measure, here is what I am seeing from another station logged as Administrator, as you can see the Station Thumbnails shows the video and according to another topic in this forum, this mean the GPU Acceleration is not activated :(

    samedi 17 mars 2012 05:58
  • Btw, am I the only one that still have the station thumbnail showing the video screenshot? (instead of a blank black screen)

    @Ben, how about you, did your station viewer shows black screen on the video?

    lundi 19 mars 2012 03:09
  • Hi,

    I have not yet had chance to try this as our wms are in use all day I will try in a couple of hours after classes have finished.

    Thanks

    Ben

    lundi 19 mars 2012 13:54
  • @Ben, No worries man, Just take your time... Anyway thanks for sparing some of your busy time to test this out, I really appreciate it :)
    lundi 19 mars 2012 23:26
  • Hi,

    Ok I've just tested this on one of my classroom direct connected stations.

    I've uploaded a video taken during the selected youtube clip being played fullscreen have a look in a couple of minutes as it's still uploading atm.

    http://youtu.be/T-WrXEPr1zI

    mercredi 21 mars 2012 15:45
  • Thanks Ben, so it seems that you get the same experience as we have with direct connected stations in Normal mode - choppy/low frame rate video playback. Were you able to compare this with the experience in Maintenance Mode? I'm starting to think that this is a limitation of WMS2011 for direct connected clients, maybe only certain video files types played via Windows Media Player supports hardware acceleration / multimedia redirection.

    Ben, can you maybe also test the Wildlife.wmv sample video that comes default with Windows 7. Maybe you get acceleration when you play this video with Windows Media Player, similar to this example via RDP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2xb3m_7nc4

    My Windows Multipoint Server is not currently available, but I will also do more testing as soon as I can.

    mercredi 21 mars 2012 16:25
  • Hi John,

    It obviously hasn't come across on the video I shot then but I wouldn't consider there being any problem with the playback on that host indeed it looked no different to when I played the video on my Z210 worstation, there are a couple of jump cut scenes but the driving portion for instance was fine.

    Ben

    mercredi 21 mars 2012 16:28
  • For me I can see a big difference between the Youtube video clip and your camera movement in the background in your recording, the frame rate of the Youtube clip seems about 10-15fps while your video recording is probably 30. Maybe you can record two monitors next to each other playing the Youtube clip at the same time - Normal Mode vs Maintenance Mode, I don't know if this would be possible in your environment? Lets also hear M4G1C14N's opinion on your recording. Thanks for the effort!


    mercredi 21 mars 2012 16:42
  • @Ben, before I said anything, I want to thank you for sparing some of your precious time :) . In responds to your uploaded video, could you please do me a favor? Could you please go into Maintenance Mode by

    1. Go to Windows MultiPoint Server Manager

    2. Clicking the "Switch to maintenance mode" (You can find them on the right side of the window)

    3. after you were told to press the CTRL+ALT+DEL , do so and login as Administrator

    4. Play the youtube video again, and record them using exactly the same camera as the one you were using right now :)

    I am sorry, I know this is a tall list of order, and I really felt bad to bothering you that much, but you can take as much time as you need to do this, we will wait patiently :)

    And if you are feeling generous right now, I would ask you to do one more thing, you must do this at Normal Mode :)

    1. login to station 1 as certain user, and play the youtube video

    2. login to station 2 as Administrator, and view the Desktop Thumbnail

    What do you see in the Thumbnail? Can you see the video (this properly indicate that the video is not played with GPU Acceleration)

    But please, only do this if you have found some time to spare, I really dont want to bother you anymore than what we have done :( ..

    @John , there are chances that the Cam he were using is not good enough to capture the video played on the screen, I have seen this happened on some camera, but if he were to record the same video using the same setup but on Maintenance Mode, than we can correctly compare the performance :)

    PS : I couldnt find the wildlife.wmv , right now I am downloading the the one I try to find on Internet , I will update you later :|

    jeudi 22 mars 2012 10:13
  • Oh God... I am very angry right now :(

    The wildlife.wmv , when played using the Direct Station Method, is choppy (it is quite apparent) , and when we dragged the window of Windows Media Player around, the video follows it....

    But when I used Remote Desktop Connection, and play it using the Windows Media Player.... IT WORKS FLAWLESSLY... My God... please dont do this man :(( I cant believe it... to much disbelieve, now I try to play the 1080p video using this Remote Desktop , and it works... I cant believe this... Seriously HOW CAN a REMOTE DESKTOP SESSION can play the video better than DIRECT CONNECT SESSION?!?!?! Why... ARGHHHHH I seriously want to get mad :(

    Hmmm though I cant confirm this in Windows MultiPoint Manager Station Thumbnail Preview (since the remote desktop session has no thumbnail, and I suspect perhaps this is the problem that caused Poor Performance in Direct Connect) ???

    Let me try to disable the thumbnail view and see if it works...

    If not, Bye Bye Windows MultiPoint 2011, I will be sticking to SoftxPand instead to get full potential of my VGA Card...

    By the way John, that X550 you were using, could please do me a favor and confirm if the AERO Theme (needed 3D GPU) is running well on X550 Station? This might be another alternative for me ...

    jeudi 22 mars 2012 10:34
  • Now , I am officialy mad... Have turned off the thumbnail, and still the same lag... My God.... John, could please confirm my finding, could please just remote desktop to your server and play ANY video and see the huge performance increase?

    Please do so, while I am testing Adobe Photoshop CS5, Flash etc :((

    jeudi 22 mars 2012 10:38
  • I know you've tested on a couple of systems but in the main one what is the GPU you are using?

    Thanks.

    Ben

    jeudi 22 mars 2012 10:40
  • Using the same video ,  using the same user...

    a. at Direct Connect : When i play the video using Windows Media Player, it is not working, it just dont do anything (i suspect perhaps he try to enquiry the gpu and failed?), I have to resolve playing the video via Media Player Classic

    b. at Remote Desktop : Play fine using Windows Media Player, play fine using Media Player Classic...

    No... this cant be real...

    On Both, Photoshop CS5 is laggy , so i think this GPU Acceleration is only for video? .... Man using SoftXpand, I can even Run 3DStudioMax on all stations and everything uses GPU :(( .... Man this ..... well.... sucks :(

    jeudi 22 mars 2012 10:46
  • @Ben, The GPU used is ATI 6790

    The point is, using Remote Desktop solved the Video Performance problem while the Direct Desktop Connection is not :( ... Man... ahh I am speechless

    jeudi 22 mars 2012 10:48
  • That's ok I'm just curious as to what GPU you were using.

    RDP connections are going to be leveraging the GPU I don't think.

    You don't have remoteFX enabled on the server do you?

    Ben

    jeudi 22 mars 2012 10:51
  • Hi M4G1C14N,

    The good video playback performance via remote desktop is a feature of the new RDP protocol and client:

    Windows Media Player redirection

    Windows Media Player Redirection enables content hosted in Windows Media Player to be redirected to the client for decoding on users’ computers. This improves the quality of the video and makes sure that video and audio are always in sync. This works for both full Windows Media Player and Windows Media Player controls hosted in Web pages.

    (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/969084)

    The X550 does not do well with 3D/Aero at all, so this will not be the solution for your needs. Maybe you should look into HyperV + RemoteFX.

    jeudi 22 mars 2012 10:54
  • remoteFX is enabled, but I am not using the any Hyper-V... the RemoteFX only works on Hyper-V right?

    Oh wait... without the remoteFX, the RDP Session is also choppy :| ... so RemoteFX for RDP and not for Direct Connect?

    • Modifié M4G1C14N jeudi 22 mars 2012 10:56 tested remoteFX setup
    jeudi 22 mars 2012 10:54
  • RemoteFX is a technology that can be used by remote clients for video it's nothing to do directly with Hyper-V which is a machine virtualisation system.

    Can you turn of RemoteFX and try again please?

    Ben

    jeudi 22 mars 2012 11:02
  • @Ben, I have... Turning off the RemoteFX, caused the RDP session also choppy :(

    @John, could you confirm my finding?

    jeudi 22 mars 2012 11:06
  • Yep you get RemoteFX w/ Remote Desktop Session Host (RDSH/Terminal Server) included in WMS2011. 

    The RemoteFX that you want (for 3D) is RemoteFX w/ Remote Desktop Virtualization Host (RDVH/VDI) for which you need Hyper-V and specific hardware etc. But here you get 3D virtual adapter, look here to be impressed:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRbEh_58XmI

    Here's a nice summary (sorry cannot remember where I've found it):

    RemoteFX w/ Remote Desktop Virtualization Host (RDVH/VDI) provides:
    • Rich user experience for Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) via
    - 3D virtual adapter
    - intelligent codecs
    - ability to redirect USB devices in virtual machines
    • Requires (summarization - see above article for details)
    - RemoteFX enabled on a Remote Desktop Virtualization Host server
    - Windows 7 Enterprise/Ultimate running in a VM on the RemoteFX server
    - RemoteFX compatible client
    - Server-based GPU and other HW requirements as defined in this article
    - Remote Desktop Connection performance set to LAN (10 Mbps or higher)
    • Result: Full fidelity experience (e.g., 3D applications built on DirectX, Silverlight and Flash applications, etc.)

    RemoteFX w/ Remote Desktop Session Host (RDSH/Terminal Server) provides:
    • Rich user experience defined as:
    - lower bandwidth usage as compared to Windows Server 2008 R2 when transferring rich graphics applications (i.e., intelligent codecs provide a better experience)
    - Does not provide the same experience as RemoteFX w/ Remote Desktop Virtualization Host (RDVH/VDI)
    • Does not provide:
    - 3D virtual adapter
    - ability to redirect USB devices in virtual machines
    • Requires
    - RemoteFX enabled on a Remote Desktop Session Host server
    - RemoteFX compatible client
    - Remote Desktop Connection performance set to LAN (10 Mbps or higher)
    - No server-based GPU is required
    • Result: Provides a better experience compared to Windows Server 2008 R2 without RemoteFX enabled but has fewer capabilites compared to RemoteFX w/ Remote Desktop Virtualization Host (RDVH/VDI).

    Windows Server 8 is even more exciting for RemoteFX.. but this is a bit off the point, my WHS2011 direct connected clients still provides a worse experience than my X550 clients, which I cannot understand.

    jeudi 22 mars 2012 11:10
  • Ok just shot another video with the host in maintenance mode it's currently uploading and will be available from:

    http://youtu.be/CoNsIN1PkMM

    I also did in normal mode and in the thumbnails in multipoint manager I do see the image allthough your idea ref acceleration may only be windows media player rather than embedded flash videos.

    Any chance you can video what you see so that I can compare "choppy"?

    My hosts does not have remotefx enabled.

    Ben

    jeudi 22 mars 2012 15:42
  • Well , I have well given up on the idea of using Windows MultiPoint 2011 :(

    I will be formatting my Server this Sunday, and replace it with a normal Windows 7 64bit + 6 licenses of SoftXPand... and give a full desktop experience the operational staff should get from the GPU :(

    I see absolutely no point in using the expensive Windows MultiPoint 2011 if a simple GPU acceleration could not be achieved even after we have directly connecting it :( ... I sincerely hope that Windows 8 Server MultiPoint will fix this problem, until than, I am going to stick with my SoftXPand solution.

    @John, one question out of curiosity, if you can get a far better experience from nComputing X550, why would you use a MultiPoint station instead? am I missing any great feature that exists on MultiPoint Server ??

    mercredi 28 mars 2012 09:18
  • Originally I was just testing the Multipoint Server 2011 with various clients (nComputing, HP Thin client, direct connected stations etc) and expected the direct connected stations to work better. There are licensing concerns when accessing one Windows 7 license by several users at the same time (see http://download.microsoft.com/download/3/d/4/3d42bdc2-6725-4b29-b75a-a5b04179958b/windows_multi_user.docx):

    • No licensing terms exist that allow shared use of the Windows client operating system in the manner illustrated in Figure 1. Under current licensing terms, each host computer or access device using Windows 7, Windows Vista®, or Windows XP must have either a license for such Windows client operating system purchased through the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) channel or the retail/full packaged product (FPP) channel, or a Volume Licensing upgrade purchased on top of a qualifying operating system license. 

    I don't know the SoftXP software, but for what I know about your requirements, I would maybe look into Hyper-V + RemoteFX.

    John


    mercredi 28 mars 2012 09:36
  • The licensing for the OS is easy, just buy win7 for each virtual station :)

    And it is still hell cheaper than Multipoint Server 2011 and the license for each station :(

    Currently i have just formatted my Operating System, and I have just tested running Futuremark 3D Mark 2006 SE, and get a good 100FPS out of one of the test (did not have time to let them finish , but you get the idea that the GPU is accelerating each station ) , and I am really content with this...

    Using the Hyper-V + RemoteFX, would cost even more, because we must use the Windows MultiPoint PREMIUM edition....

    Based on OS Cost for 8 stations , Win7 + SoftXPand  is way cheaper than Windows MultiPoint Standard , and of course the most expensive one would be the Windows MultiPoint Premium edition (this is so expensive, that I couldnt really dared to consider it an option) :(

    Anyway thanks for everything, John if you decided to use Hyper-V + RemoteFX, please share your finding with us here, I am really interested to see how it works :)

    jeudi 29 mars 2012 08:04