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Answered /integrate switch

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      Wednesday, March 12, 2008 1:51 PM
       
       
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      @ Shashank Bansal & Chris Keroack & Microsoft: 

       

      Can  /integrate  be used properly with an RTM or SP0 source...? 

       

       

      @ALL:  Please wait until MS gives an official answer....we all have "opinions" about the viability of this - but, we do not yet have an "official" answer.....Thanks!

       

       

       

    Answers

    • Monday, March 17, 2008 8:40 PM
       
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      Ok - thanks for your patience as I sorted this out. As I noted earlier, I wanted to confirm a few things with my counterparts in customer support.

       

      ·       You can use /integrate to create integrated installs combining SP3 with any previous SP, all the way back to Windows XP RTM/SP0.

      §  In our internal testing, we explicitly test that /integrate of SP3 works with SP0, SP1 and SP2.

      ·       Per commercial support policies, we will support the creation of integrated installs to a network or local share. 

      §  To be more specific: say you use /integrate to create SP0+SP3 to a network share. The resulting installs you make using that are installs of SP3, and are covered under support lifecycle for SP3. 

      ·       Per commercial support policies, we will not support the creation of integrated builds on bootable media.

      §  The only exception would be if the customer has reimage rights per their licensing agreement with Microsoft. Support for these issues would be provided either under an existing support contract or as an advanced issue related to deployment.

      ·       Unless explicitly stated otherwise, everything you can do in SP2 deployment guides, or in original integration instructions in the Microsoft Knowledge Base article, you can do with SP3.

      ·       As with previous service packs, there will be an online form for ordering CDs of the SP3 standalone update.

      §  This should enable customers who work with /integrate to order that media, do /integrate with their own backup / install media.

      §  As with previous service packs, we will not be enabling ordering CDs of integrated media. This is no different from SP2.

      §  This is separate from exercising downgrade rights with Vista. Questions about those rights should go to Vista forums.

      I hope this adequately answers questions on this topic.

       

      And speaking personally for a moment - I realize not all possible scenarios might be covered, or might not have the priority or level of support that a given customer, or group of customers, may want. With an install base in the hundreds of millions, that is always an issue for Windows XP. My hope is that we do the best we can for as many people as we can. (Excuse the starry-eyed idealism there. Hope you weren't eating lunch while reading that.)

       

      Thanks all for your participation in the public beta to date, and your continued use and support of Windows XP.

       

      Regards,

      Chris Keroack

      Release Manager, Windows XP Service Pack 3

       

       

       
    • Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:47 PM
       
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      @Chris:

       

      ....methinks the tea leaves are now aligned....

       

      Thank you!

       

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    • Wednesday, March 12, 2008 6:08 PM
       
       
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      As noted in other threads, I am currently researching specific support policies, so that I can give a more specific answer on what will be offered and supported at RTM regarding slipstreaming. Thank you for your patience.

       

       

       
    • Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:57 AM
       
       
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      Thank you for an honest answer.  I can imagine that there are yet to be resolved issues regarding benchmarking against all SP scenarios.

       

      Just a comment though: 

       

      I believe the interest here (at least mine) is less about what will be "supported" from an active tech support services perspective and is really about what will (i.e. should) actually work properly from a fully cumulative SP3 perspective against an RTM/SP0 source.  I can live without being able to obtain tech support if I am working/using an out of support product and have problems.  But, what I (and I'll bet a lot of other folks) really want, in fact need to "know" (which only MS can truly say) is that such an integration "should" be fully functional "if" one performs it correctly.  Recognizing that there is no active tech support available is not "the" or even "an" issue....rather, knowing that the bridge is actually complete is what I need to know before I start driving across it.......(so to speak).

       

      Thanks Chris for replying...and good luck with the bench testing....

       
    • Monday, March 17, 2008 8:40 PM
       
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      Ok - thanks for your patience as I sorted this out. As I noted earlier, I wanted to confirm a few things with my counterparts in customer support.

       

      ·       You can use /integrate to create integrated installs combining SP3 with any previous SP, all the way back to Windows XP RTM/SP0.

      §  In our internal testing, we explicitly test that /integrate of SP3 works with SP0, SP1 and SP2.

      ·       Per commercial support policies, we will support the creation of integrated installs to a network or local share. 

      §  To be more specific: say you use /integrate to create SP0+SP3 to a network share. The resulting installs you make using that are installs of SP3, and are covered under support lifecycle for SP3. 

      ·       Per commercial support policies, we will not support the creation of integrated builds on bootable media.

      §  The only exception would be if the customer has reimage rights per their licensing agreement with Microsoft. Support for these issues would be provided either under an existing support contract or as an advanced issue related to deployment.

      ·       Unless explicitly stated otherwise, everything you can do in SP2 deployment guides, or in original integration instructions in the Microsoft Knowledge Base article, you can do with SP3.

      ·       As with previous service packs, there will be an online form for ordering CDs of the SP3 standalone update.

      §  This should enable customers who work with /integrate to order that media, do /integrate with their own backup / install media.

      §  As with previous service packs, we will not be enabling ordering CDs of integrated media. This is no different from SP2.

      §  This is separate from exercising downgrade rights with Vista. Questions about those rights should go to Vista forums.

      I hope this adequately answers questions on this topic.

       

      And speaking personally for a moment - I realize not all possible scenarios might be covered, or might not have the priority or level of support that a given customer, or group of customers, may want. With an install base in the hundreds of millions, that is always an issue for Windows XP. My hope is that we do the best we can for as many people as we can. (Excuse the starry-eyed idealism there. Hope you weren't eating lunch while reading that.)

       

      Thanks all for your participation in the public beta to date, and your continued use and support of Windows XP.

       

      Regards,

      Chris Keroack

      Release Manager, Windows XP Service Pack 3

       

       

       
    • Tuesday, March 18, 2008 5:06 AM
       
       
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      Thanks, Chris, for your reply!

      May ask back if you can extend the following paragraphs any further?

       Chris Keroack [MSFT] wrote:
      Thanks all for your participation in the public beta to date, and your continued use and support of Windows XP.

      ·       Per commercial support policies, we will not support the creation of integrated builds on bootable media.


      vs.


      As with previous service packs, there will be an online form for ordering CDs of the SP3 standalone update.

      §  This should enable customers who work with /integrate to order that media, do /integrate with their own backup / install media.

      Am I correct in assuming, that the enduser who has generated himself a Windows XP setup media CD with SP3 beeing integrated into it (for personal use/backup reasons) will get support from MS, while the -ehm- commercial customer won't?

      Am I furthermore correct in assuming that running the setup of the standalone of SP3 on a Windows XP RTM/SP0 system wouldn't result in any known technical problems, if the setup routine of SP3 wouldn't check for at least SP1 beeing installed on the system already?
      As I've stated earlier, it is indeed possible to install SP3 on Windows XP RTM/SP0 after setting (only) one registry key on the RTM system, so that SP3 "thinks" at least SP1 is installed already. I'm aware, that this scenario won't be supported by MS anyway, but it is technically possible. Since the integration of SP3 into Windows XP RTM/SP0 works as you've confirmed, I wonder if the installation of SP3 on Windows XP RTM/SP0 would result in any known technical problems - from a logical kind of view. I don't think so, but any kind of confirmation would be appreciated.

      Thanks all for your participation in the public beta to date, and your continued use and support of Windows XP.

      Looks like the beta cycle is almost over...

      Bye,
      Freudi
       
    • Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:06 PM
       
       
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      We don't support creating integrated builds on bootable media. We do support SP3 install, even if install was done via a backup created by doing /integrate of SP3 + SP0.

       

      As to your other question - as mentioned above, the way to get SP0 + SP3 is to do /integrate. That's tested and supported. Changing the registry to force SP3 standalone update to install onto SP0, is not supported. I can't make it any clearer than that.

       

      I know you don't like that answer. I apologize for your frustration in not getting an answer to what likely seems like a simple theoretical question.

       
    • Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:37 PM
       
       
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      @Chris:

       

      Thank you for taking the time to get the answer to my question.  I now "know" that SP3 integrated into an RTM/SP0 source will produce, technically speaking, a fully functional build.

       

      Is it fair to assume that the no support for bootable media comment is related to MS "Support Services" policy and not to the actual functionality of a bootable integration?  Or is this a real functionality issue?  My concern relates to differences between install/setup modes.  I don't mind the lack of "support"....rather, my concern is strictly with functionality.

       

      Thanks again!

       

       
    • Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:42 PM
       
       
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      I'm talking about support policy above.

       

       
    • Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:42 PM
       
       
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       Chris Keroack [MSFT] wrote:

      We don't support creating integrated builds on bootable media. We do support SP3 install, even if install was done via a backup created by doing /integrate of SP3 + SP0.

      Hm, however the enduser would be able to install Windows XP SP0 with a slipstreamed SP3 without building a bootable setup CD, I and the enduser will have to live with that answer I fear.

       

      Changing the registry to force SP3 standalone update to install onto SP0, is not supported. I can't make it any clearer than that.

      Okay, clear enough for the public Wink

      In case you want to be even clearer and/or warn me to release any kind of "tool" that may or may not enable the installation of SP3 on RTM/SP0, feel free to contact me by mail. I'll keep any further information given by you private and/or under NDA if you want to.


      I know you don't like that answer. I apologize for your frustration in not getting an answer to what likely seems like a simple theoretical question.


      Well, you know, it's not a matter wether I like your answers or not, but wether the user aka your customers will like them.

      As for for simple theoretical questions, I would really like to see a reply to http://forums.microsoft.com/technet/showpost.aspx?postid=2647331&siteid=17&pageid=1 and especially to the following question asked there:
      What will the user experience be, in case of (re)building the system from ground of (e.g. Malware infection/compromised system) if the user has "only" a Windows XP RTM/Gold setup CD? Jumping over on Windows Update, download SP2, reboot, jumping on Windows Update once again and download SP3 (and reboot again) - and not doing anything else in the meantime to not infect the system (again)?
      You know, I'm a Security MVP and therefore really interested in any answer you may want to give to that question, since it is IMHO indeed a security issue to go online with XP RTM/SP0 and the default settings in there.

      TIA,
      Freudi
       
    • Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:46 PM
       
       
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      Re: the rebuilding scenario you describe, where a user only has Sp0 to work with, I'd suggest the user grab the necessary pieces (e.g. sp3) and then do a /integrate offline. I'd like to think that that scenario would be less and less common now; your experience my vary.

       

      Thanks for your patience, and understanding intent of my responses.

       
    • Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:47 PM
       
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      @Chris:

       

      ....methinks the tea leaves are now aligned....

       

      Thank you!

       
    • Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:10 PM
       
       
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       Chris Keroack [MSFT] wrote:

      Re: the rebuilding scenario you describe, where a user only has Sp0 to work with, I'd suggest the user grab the necessary pieces (e.g. sp3) and then do a /integrate offline.

      That's what I would suggest too, but I doubt the average user even knows about the possibilty to use the /integrate switch though. My assumption on WU/AU with SP0 (reboot for WUA and WGA, afterwards SP2 first, reboot and finally SP3, reboot) is correct?


      I'd like to think that that scenario would be less and less common now

      That's what I wish to be true too, but...



      Thanks for your patience, and understanding intent of my responses.


      I tried hard, but I hope to not have failed Wink

      Bye,
      Freudi
       
    • Tuesday, March 18, 2008 9:42 PM
       
       
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      The lather-rinse-repeat you describe is right for WU, yes.

      Thanks again.

       

       
    • Friday, March 21, 2008 4:54 PM
       
       
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      Thanks Chris and happy Easter to you all,
      Freudi