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Windows Client > Windows XP IT Pro Forums > Windows XP Service Pack 3 (SP3) > User experience with Windows XP RTM after SP3 beeing released

Answered User experience with Windows XP RTM after SP3 beeing released

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      Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:26 AM
       
       
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       Seth Wall [MS] wrote in http://forums.microsoft.com/technet/showpost.aspx?postid=2602857&siteid=17:

      XP SP3 will install without problems on top of SP1 and SP2. XP RTM is out of support and hence XP SP3 will not install on top of XP RTM.

      Sorry for beeing late here, but isn't SP1 out of support too?

      I find it somewhat "strange" that a user setting up his Windows XP system from ground and only having CD with a RTM/Gold version of XP available, will be forced to download SP2 and afterwards SP3. Or what else will happen if the user accesses Windows Update or is using AutoUpdate the first time on his machine with Windows XP RTM beeing installed?
       
      Aren't Service Packs ment to be cumulative?
      That's even what http://support.microsoft.com/kb/824684/en-us states:
      "A service pack is a tested, cumulative set of all hotfixes, security updates, critical updates, and updates."

       

      Slipstreaming SP3 into the RTM/Gold version of Windows XP is supported though?

       

      Bye,
      Freudi

       

    Answers

    • Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:27 PM
       
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      Answer regarding media - there are currently plans to allow users to get media of Sp3, similar to other service packs, so that you have SP3 media to use as your installation baseline instead of having to install everything in sequence.

       

      Answer regarding cumulative - they are still technically cumulative, but there are many unsupported things one can technically do with Windows, and installing XP SP3 on top of XP RTM would be one of them. The support policies and lifecycle for each service pack are the overriding guidance here. This question has become a FAQ, so we'll be clarifying this point on the lifecycle site and in XP SP3 RTM documentation, to make this distinction clearer.

       

      Previous answer still applies for the rest:  

       

      The support dates to answer your questions are here: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifesupsps#Windows

       

      That determines the minimum requirements before installing the service pack. Some customers have purchased extended support agreements that allow for continued support on SP1. So technically XP SP3 can install to Sp1, for that reason. But both the Mainstream Support and Extended Support phases require the product’s supported service pack be installed to continue to receive support (including security updates).

       
    • Friday, March 21, 2008 4:56 PM
       
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      See http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=3043737&SiteID=17 for answers to the open questions in this thread.
       

    All Replies

    • Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:08 AM
       
       
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      I don't know the answer, but I aim to find out soon what the case is here and post back the answer.

       
    • Friday, January 11, 2008 3:26 PM
       
       
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      You need at least Service Pack 1 before what has been posted will be installed.

       
    • Sunday, January 13, 2008 2:17 AM
       
       
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      But slipstreaming SP3 with XP RTM and clean installing should cause no problems, right?

       
    • Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:45 PM
       
       
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      @ottmar freudenberger

       

      so far i know it couldnt install on top of rtm, (rtm is installed before)

      and slipstream with RTM (SP0) must work.

       

      i have only xpcd with sp2 and i have searched for the RTM german xp cd (SP0) i couldnt find anywhere.

       

      do you have a RTM/GOLD/SP0 windows xp cd ?

       

      btw: you have a wonderfull website Smile

      I knew that the name comes somewhere known Wink
       
      (patch-info.de)

       

       
    • Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:10 AM
       
       
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      so far i know it couldnt install on top of rtm, (rtm is installed before)

       

      True, that's my reason for posting ;-)

       

      and slipstream with RTM (SP0) must work.

       

      With the /integrate swith working even on Windows XP RTM/Gold it perverts the setup of SP3 refusing to install on Windows XP RTM/Gold. I don't know, if the "integrated" SP3 on RTM/Gold version of Windows XP is supported and is working properly though. That's why I want to here back on the question by an MS employe(e).

       

      Bye,

      Freu"Looks like beeing a political descision more than a technical one"di

       
    • Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:56 PM
       
       
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      thats is for me also unclear ?

       

      i think when RTM/GOLD/SP0 out of support, then its affected also to SP1.

      how would you (or the user) do an install of SP3 on SP1 when within seconds the system gets unstable

      due to viral infection ?

       

      i suggest install on SP2 against SP1

      microsoft must stop working install on sp1 instead of inform user how to create sp2/sp3 disc with /integrate switch

      or available a software for slipstreaming.

       

      imho, thats should more helpful for the user. at this moment the sp1 user can't be helped yet anymore.....

       

       
    • Wednesday, January 16, 2008 5:02 PM
       
       
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       Ottmar Freudenberger wrote:

       Seth Wall [MS] wrote in http://forums.microsoft.com/technet/showpost.aspx?postid=2602857&siteid=17:

      XP SP3 will install without problems on top of SP1 and SP2. XP RTM is out of support and hence XP SP3 will not install on top of XP RTM.

      Sorry for beeing late here, but isn't SP1 out of support too?

      I find it somewhat "strange" that a user setting up his Windows XP system from ground and only having CD with a RTM/Gold version of XP available, will be forced to download SP2 and afterwards SP3. Or what else will happen if the user accesses Windows Update or is using AutoUpdate the first time on his machine with Windows XP RTM beeing installed?
       
      Aren't Service Packs ment to be cumulative?
      That's even what http://support.microsoft.com/kb/824684/en-us states:
      "A service pack is a tested, cumulative set of all hotfixes, security updates, critical updates, and updates."

       

      Slipstreaming SP3 into the RTM/Gold version of Windows XP is supported though?

       

      Bye,
      Freudi

       

      SP1a is still available to dl from http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=83e4e879-fa3a-48bf-ade5-023443e29d78&DisplayLang=en (not the most ideal way but its a smaller dl than sp2)

       
    • Thursday, January 31, 2008 4:58 AM
       
       
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      I really still would love to receive an "official" word on my question from MS a represantative though. Any chance?

       

      TIA,

      Freudi

       

       
    • Thursday, January 31, 2008 12:42 PM
       
       
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      Ottmar,

       

      XP SP3 would install perfectly fine on XP SP1 and XP SP2. However, installation on XP RTM is blocked due to support reasons.

       

      Thanks

      Shashank

       

       
    • Thursday, January 31, 2008 5:22 PM
       
       
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       Shashank Bansal [MSFT] wrote:

      XP SP3 would install perfectly fine on XP SP1 and XP SP2. However, installation on XP RTM is blocked due to support reasons.

       

      Thanks Shashank for getting back. But you're reply unfortunatly doesn't answer my questions.

       

      #1

      Windows XP SP1 is out of support as Windows XP Gold/RTM is according to http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3224 - who is in error? Lifecycle or ...?

       

      #2

      According to http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3223 Windows XP Professional (no Service Pack mentioned there what so ever) is still supported - who is in error? Lifecycle or ...?

      Or which are these "support reasons" exactly?

       

      #3

      Aren't any SP's ment to be fully cumulative (and have been in the past)?

       

      #4

      Why is it possible to use the /integrate switch for SP3 on Windows XP RTM/Gold system while running the setup (exe) isn't?

       

      #5

      What are the real reasons for preventing the installation of SP3 on Windows XP RTM/Gold?

       

      #6

      What will the user experience be, in case of (re)building the system from ground of (e.g. Malware infection/compromised system) if the user has "only" a Windows XP RTM/Gold setup CD? Jumping over on Windows Update, download SP2, reboot, jumping on Windows Update once again and download SP3 (and reboot again) - and not doing anything else in the meantime to not infect the system (again)?

       

      #7

      Are you (MS) going to offer a non-charge replacement for Windows XP RTM/Gold setup CD's against those with SP2/3 integrated?

       

      I really would love to see a statement on all 7 points/questions each. Why? Cause I can't believe someone beeing serious and respecting his/their customers (early adaptors(!)) would have decided SP3 not beeing fully cumulative. In case there are technical reasons, I would like to be informed, which ones. In case there aren't, I would like to know, what the real reasons are for SP3 not beeing aimed fully cumulative.

       

      TIA,

      Freudi

       
    • Thursday, January 31, 2008 6:06 PM
       
       
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      Some really good questions, especially 3rd and 5th. I hope we get official answer soon.

       
    • Thursday, January 31, 2008 10:14 PM
       
       
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      Ottmar,

      Your questions should have been asked at the begining of the Beta, not at the end of the Beta when the code is locked down.

       
    • Friday, February 01, 2008 4:00 AM
       
       
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      Your questions should have been asked at the begining of the Beta, not at the end of the Beta when the code is locked down.

       

      Well, Sam, I agree.. But since I haven't been on the Beta for whichever reason and since the questions are still valid, it "may" be "interessting" to see an official answer to these questions (which may have been asked by anyone else participating in the Beta earlier) even or especially now.

       

      Bye,

      Freudi

       
    • Friday, February 01, 2008 6:10 PM
       
       
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      @ottmar

       

      re: the user experience will be ...

       

      user thinks sp3 is cumulative and want to install sp3 on top of fresh winxp rtm installation then its fails.

      so he will let in future installing sp3 and go with the RTM version further.

      maybe he installs SP1 but won't install sp3 while the sp3 was not working

       

      shame for those who have purchased the first.

       

      thats what i understood from the answers

       

      @MS: should the user buy a new windows xp license with sp2/sp3 ?

      to be on higher level of security ?

       

      greetz

       
    • Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:03 PM
       
       
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       Ottmar Freudenberger wrote:
       Shashank Bansal [MSFT] wrote:

      XP SP3 would install perfectly fine on XP SP1 and XP SP2. However, installation on XP RTM is blocked due to support reasons.

       

      Thanks Shashank for getting back. But you're reply unfortunatly doesn't answer my questions.

       

      #1

      Windows XP SP1 is out of support as Windows XP Gold/RTM is according to http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3224 - who is in error? Lifecycle or ...?

       

      #2

      According to http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3223 Windows XP Professional (no Service Pack mentioned there what so ever) is still supported - who is in error? Lifecycle or ...?

      Or which are these "support reasons" exactly?

       

      #3

      Aren't any SP's ment to be fully cumulative (and have been in the past)?

       

      #4

      Why is it possible to use the /integrate switch for SP3 on Windows XP RTM/Gold system while running the setup (exe) isn't?

       

      #5

      What are the real reasons for preventing the installation of SP3 on Windows XP RTM/Gold?

       

      #6

      What will the user experience be, in case of (re)building the system from ground of (e.g. Malware infection/compromised system) if the user has "only" a Windows XP RTM/Gold setup CD? Jumping over on Windows Update, download SP2, reboot, jumping on Windows Update once again and download SP3 (and reboot again) - and not doing anything else in the meantime to not infect the system (again)?

       

      #7

      Are you (MS) going to offer a non-charge replacement for Windows XP RTM/Gold setup CD's against those with SP2/3 integrated?

       

      I really would love to see a statement on all 7 points/questions each. Why? Cause I can't believe someone beeing serious and respecting his/their customers (early adaptors(!)) would have decided SP3 not beeing fully cumulative. In case there are technical reasons, I would like to be informed, which ones. In case there aren't, I would like to know, what the real reasons are for SP3 not beeing aimed fully cumulative.

       

      TIA,

      Freudi



      With another week of silence passing by, would some from MS please consider to try to answer the raised and IMHO fair and relevant questions?

      TIA again,
      Freudi
       
    • Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:23 AM
       
       
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      And another week of silence Sad

      Not amused,
      Freudi
       
    • Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:34 AM
       
       
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      And yet another week passing by without a reply from an MS represantative.
      The questions are asked are IMHO essential for the acceptance of SP3 and answering them would be too. In case you (MS) don't have answers to these questions at this stage of the beta cycle, at least stating that would be "nice".

      Bye,
      Freudi
       
    • Saturday, February 23, 2008 12:57 AM
       
       
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      I believe the support dates to answer your questions are here: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifesupsps#Windows

       

      That determines the minimum requirements before installing the service pack. Some customers have purchased extended support agreements that allow for continued support on SP1. So technically XP SP3 can install to Sp1, for that reason. But both the Mainstream Support and Extended Support phases require the product’s supported service pack be installed to continue to receive support (including security updates).

       

       

       
    • Saturday, February 23, 2008 7:12 AM
       
       
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      Hi Chris,

      thanks for juming in (and "cleaning" the forum BTW) Smile

       Chris Keroack [MSFT] wrote:

      I believe the support dates to answer your questions are here: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifesupsps#Windows

       

      That determines the minimum requirements before installing the service pack. Some customers have purchased extended support agreements that allow for continued support on SP1. So technically XP SP3 can install to Sp1, for that reason.


      Well, that does/may only answer a fragment of the questions I would like to have an answer to.

      In case that's the reason for not beeing able to install SP3 on Windows XP SP0/RTM, what about questions #3 to #7 above?

      I really would like to see each of them answered since these will definitly be the questions asked (in the forums and newsgroups) by the users beeing affected after SP3 has been released. I would like to be in the position to explain what is why happening to them/their machines then.



      But both the Mainstream Support and Extended Support phases require the product’s supported service pack be installed to continue to receive support (including security updates).

      Well, it has been "a good idea" to release SP3 three and a half years after SP2 then, hasn't it? :-/


      TIA,
      Freudi
       
    • Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:47 AM
       
       
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       Ottmar Freudenberger wrote:


       Chris Keroack [MSFT] wrote:

      I believe the support dates to answer your questions are here: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifesupsps#Windows

       

      That determines the minimum requirements before installing the service pack. Some customers have purchased extended support agreements that allow for continued support on SP1. So technically XP SP3 can install to Sp1, for that reason.


      Well, that does/may only answer a fragment of the questions I would like to have an answer to.

      In case that's the reason for not beeing able to install SP3 on Windows XP SP0/RTM, what about questions #3 to #7 above?

      I really would like to see each of them answered since these will definitly be the questions asked (in the forums and newsgroups) by the users beeing affected after SP3 has been released. I would like to be in the position to explain what is why happening to them/their machines then.



      Since most of these questions are still unanswered since January, ...
      I've unmarked your reply to my posting as answer, Chris, just in case it helps to get the answers for the still open questions though. Or should I start new threads for each of the questions? Well, I'm considering to...

      Bye,
      Freudi
       
    • Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:27 PM
       
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      Answer regarding media - there are currently plans to allow users to get media of Sp3, similar to other service packs, so that you have SP3 media to use as your installation baseline instead of having to install everything in sequence.

       

      Answer regarding cumulative - they are still technically cumulative, but there are many unsupported things one can technically do with Windows, and installing XP SP3 on top of XP RTM would be one of them. The support policies and lifecycle for each service pack are the overriding guidance here. This question has become a FAQ, so we'll be clarifying this point on the lifecycle site and in XP SP3 RTM documentation, to make this distinction clearer.

       

      Previous answer still applies for the rest:  

       

      The support dates to answer your questions are here: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifesupsps#Windows

       

      That determines the minimum requirements before installing the service pack. Some customers have purchased extended support agreements that allow for continued support on SP1. So technically XP SP3 can install to Sp1, for that reason. But both the Mainstream Support and Extended Support phases require the product’s supported service pack be installed to continue to receive support (including security updates).

       
    • Friday, February 29, 2008 4:11 AM
       
       
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       Chris Keroack [MSFT] wrote:

      Answer regarding media - there are currently plans to allow users to get media of Sp3, similar to other service packs, so that you have SP3 media to use as your installation baseline instead of having to install everything in sequence.

      Hm, I'm not sure I understand you correctly:

      Are you (MS) going to offer replacement medias containing Windows XP with a slipstreamed SP3 to those having "only" a Windows XP SP0/RTM CD (retail)?

      And/or are you (MS) going to offer only SP3 on a CD/DVD which still can't be installed on a Windows XP SP0/RTM?


      In case you're going to offer replacement CDs, that would be fine and somewhat satisfying.


      In case you're going to only SP3 on CD, those users having only a Windows XP RTM/SP0 setup CD are still lost and will have to install SP1|2 first and SP3 afterwards which is INOMNSHO anything but an acceptable user experience at all. So, once again: What will the user experience be, in case of (re)building the system from ground of (e.g. Malware infection/compromised system) if the user has "only" a Windows XP RTM/Gold setup CD? Jumping over on Windows Update, download SP2, reboot, jumping on Windows Update once again and download SP3 (and reboot again) - and not doing anything else in the meantime to not infect the system (again)? Since this will raise security questions and issues, I would really love to see an answer to these questions!


      Answer regarding cumulative - they are still technically cumulative, but there are many unsupported things one can technically do with Windows, and installing XP SP3 on top of XP RTM would be one of them.

      Reading between the lines: There are no known (possible) technical issues installing SP3 on Windows XP RTM/SP0. The requirement for SP3 installing on Windows XP SP1|2 only is a only based on your (MS's) support policies. True? If true, there are yet unknown/undocumented "tricks" to install (not only slipstreaming) SP3 on Windows XP RTM/SP0?


      The support policies and lifecycle for each service pack are the overriding guidance here. This question has become a FAQ, so we'll be clarifying this point on the lifecycle site and in XP SP3 RTM documentation, to make this distinction clearer.

      I'm looking forward to that announced clearification.


       

      The support dates to answer your questions are here: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifesupsps#Windows

       

      That determines the minimum requirements before installing the service pack

      FWIW, I'm missing Windows XP Professional SP0/RTM in the list <duck>


      Thanks anyway for your reply, Chris, and I'm looking forward for another reply from you answering the outlined questions above. I don't want to annoy you, I just want to be able to understand the backgrounds to be able to explain them to users which are going to ask the same questions when SP3 will RTM.

      TIA,
      Freudi
       
    • Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:46 AM
       
       
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      According To What It Says On The Windows XP Service Pack 3, Release Candidate 2, Public Download Page, Service Pack 3 Can Only Be Installed On Top Of Windows XP Service Pack 2, Just FYI.

       

       
    • Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:12 AM
       
       
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      Hi Freudi

       

      As far as i can read the answer, media with a complete windows xp SP3 will be made available.

       

      Regarding SP1 requirement.

      Slipstreaming onto a media is very different from upgrading.

      When slipstreaming, you actually just replace some files on the CD.

      I still have the impression that you CAN slipstream SP3 onto an RTM CD.

      I don't have an RTM CD, so i can not verify it - others have reported success.

       

      Upgrading an installed RTM on the other hand, raises lot of problems.

      MS drew the line at SP1 ( and probably wanted to do so at SP2 ), since there have been significant changes to XP with these 2 Service Packs. Especially SP2.

       

      I do not believe that the problems mentioned on this site, and on the earlier beta stages are a result of bad programming.

      The last few builds have worked close to perfect for me - as slipstreamed installs on an empty machine.

      Installed with novell client, groupwise mail, ms office 2003, jave, acrobat etc.... I'm currently working on a b3311 both at home and at work..

       

      Most of the errors mentioned on this site, are a result of interaction with drivers, other software and older file versions, custom settings etc.

      If Windows XP RTM should have been included too, these problems would have multiplied.

       

      Regarding slipstreamed CD's.

      You can easily make one yourself, via MS instructions or Nlite.

      I am not aware of any limitations to creating a media for friends with a valid license.

       

      Gruss

       

      Lars

       
    • Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:23 AM
       
       
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       Lars Kruse wrote:

      As far as i can read the answer, media with a complete windows xp SP3 will be made available.

      Since the answer leaves space for speculation on how to interpretate it (SP3 media or Windows XP including SP3 media), it's on MS's turn to clearify, isn't it?



      Regarding SP1 requirement.

      Slipstreaming onto a media is very different from upgrading.

      Ehm, I'm aware of the differences, trust me Wink


      Upgrading an installed RTM on the other hand, raises lot of problems.

      Which ones exactly if there are any technical (setup) ones? Yes, that's one reason why I'm asking those questions above.

      Bye,
      Freu"Ja, der Onkel von patch-info.de <g>"di
       
    • Friday, March 07, 2008 9:15 AM
       
       
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       Ottmar Freudenberger wrote:
       Chris Keroack [MSFT] wrote:

      Answer regarding cumulative - they are still technically cumulative, but there are many unsupported things one can technically do with Windows, and installing XP SP3 on top of XP RTM would be one of them.

      Reading between the lines: There are no known (possible) technical issues installing SP3 on Windows XP RTM/SP0. The requirement for SP3 installing on Windows XP SP1|2 only is a only based on your (MS's) support policies. True? If true, there are yet unknown/undocumented "tricks" to install (not only slipstreaming) SP3 on Windows XP RTM/SP0?


      I've learned in the meantime that it is indeed possible to install SP3 on Windows XP RTM/SP0 after adding to registry keys and values. CSDVersion and CSDReleaseType. Interessting, isn't it? So the limitation of beeing able to install SP3 on Windows XP SP1|2 only with the EXE provided looks more and more rather political than technical.

      Not a good choice, if you'ld ask me,
      Freudi
       
    • Wednesday, March 12, 2008 2:54 PM
       
       
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      I tried a sliptream of SP3 on to a XP RTM/SP0 cd and it works. I installed it a week ago and still no errors or problems.

       

      Also slipstreamed IE7 and WMP11 to the disc and both work aswell if thats of any use to anyone.

       
    • Wednesday, March 12, 2008 5:43 PM
       
       
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      I am currently researching specific support policies, so that I can give a more specific answer on what will be offered and supported at RTM regarding slipstreaming. Thank you for your patience.

       

       
    • Friday, March 21, 2008 4:56 PM
       
       Answered
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      See http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=3043737&SiteID=17 for answers to the open questions in this thread.
       
    • Monday, June 23, 2008 4:37 PM
       
       
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       XPPRO RTM sp0
      1."Do not slipstream sp1a or sp2 and then SP3, SP3 already includes SP2, put SP3" only.

      2 Slipstream MP 11

      " The hotfixes for WMP11 do not appear on MU because MS does not think they are important enough, but they are still needed, because they fix many issues with WMP11."

      3.Slipstream these know isues to mp11

      KB928788
      KB929399
      KB929773
      KB932390
      KB933547
      KB935551
      KB935552
      KB939209
      KB939683
      KB941569
      KB944110
      KB944882
      KB945381
      KB946665

      4. IE7.
      Slipstream in ie-7 then the packages

      update:
      kb950759
      kb923789
      kb950760
      kb950762
      kb951376
      kb951698
      kb942763
      kb915865
      kb941569
      kb892130
      kb890830


      After installing this you will show only the latest updates after 06-15-2008 for windows and any other hardware fixs from ms update site notice there will be a .net update

      KB829019

      Memo:

      Older PC will not support IE7 or MP11 for older pc's use only IE6 and MP10 and no updates for mp11 or ie7
      "graphic card will not suport mp11 or ie7"

      Building this new install for XP save many hours of download time "some still use dial up this meens days of downloads if you don't time out ."