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Microsoft Please Return the Start menuu RRS feed

  • Question

  • Please return the start menu of something equivalent.
    Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:09 AM

Answers

  • Microsoft already did that. In 8.1 we have start button

    Thanks

    • Proposed as answer by don'zz Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:32 AM
    • Marked as answer by Roger LuModerator Monday, September 23, 2013 2:43 AM
    Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:32 AM

All replies

  • Microsoft already did that. In 8.1 we have start button

    Thanks

    • Proposed as answer by don'zz Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:32 AM
    • Marked as answer by Roger LuModerator Monday, September 23, 2013 2:43 AM
    Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:32 AM
  • Install StartIsBack+:

    http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/163489-startisback-rc4/


    "A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code"

    Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:27 PM
  • Big Enough? (Classic Shell)

    Friday, September 20, 2013 8:32 PM
  • No one who knows anything uses Linux.

    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:49 AM
  • Classic Shell

    Monday, September 23, 2013 8:40 AM
  • Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:33 AM
  • I have very rarely used the start menu. In about 2005 I wrote a toolbar and use it to this day.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Wednesday, September 25, 2013 1:12 PM
  • I think the tiles are nice but it is hard to arrange them how I like. If each tile would swap places for each it would make more sense. If there was a trash receptacle to eliminate unneeded tiles would be improvement. I f there was access to power options right there on the start menu it would be faster. Right now it is usable but takes to much work to get it right.
    Tuesday, October 1, 2013 9:16 AM
  • I like zero's start menu its flashy.
    Tuesday, October 1, 2013 10:25 AM
  • You're welcome.  It didn't occur to me that it could be bothersome, but then I remembered a scene from the film The Andromeda Strain.

    And thank you in return for asking nicely.  People generally respond well when treated nicely and with respect.  There's all too little of that here.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Thursday, October 3, 2013 2:39 AM
  • As one who gets migraines, I can relate.  I'm VERY sorry about that.  :(

       

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Thursday, October 3, 2013 4:07 AM
  • I never thought id have to run a tablet OS on a desktop computer.

    Thursday, October 3, 2013 7:59 AM

  • I never thought id have to run a tablet OS on a desktop computer.

    http://1vrrvq.dm2301.livefilestore.com/y2p4qTnyyDowBC0pr65kp_TXsfFkdbqzidsX563kLPifuYZjdeuSOwb7ZYRW-z6BojknJYzwE0nxzJDL38aMogg2hdvVr3myD-Id79uz4WZ_6s/giraffe.gif

    Oh but you don't.  Just pour yourself a cup and re-read this thread.

    Welcome back, DJF of MBF.  Where have you been?

    He's coming to get me.
    Thursday, October 3, 2013 10:18 AM
  • I never thought id have to run a tablet OS on a desktop computer.

    Did someone twist your arm to upgrade?

    Windows 7 still works just as fine as it did, and Microsoft so far hasn't provided any significant incentive to upgrade. 

    So far I've been able to do without the "upgraded" Task Manager.

    For now, "wait and see" works.

      

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Friday, October 4, 2013 3:10 AM
  • I never thought id have to run a tablet OS on a desktop computer.

    Did someone twist your arm to upgrade?

    Windows 7 still works just as fine as it did, and Microsoft so far hasn't provided any significant incentive to upgrade. 

    So far I've been able to do without the "upgraded" Task Manager.

    For now, "wait and see" works.

      

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options


    I saw your fortune cookie, it said please try again
    Friday, October 4, 2013 10:07 PM
  • I've heard a lot of great things about "Start is Back".
    Friday, October 4, 2013 10:12 PM
  • I use it all the time. It is the best startmenu tool for me.

    "A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code"

    Saturday, October 5, 2013 6:34 AM
  • Okay, I'll try again to bring sense to the discussion.

    I run Windows 8 or 8.1 on three of my eight systems.  Of the others, I run Windows 7 on three, Vista on one, and XP on one.

    My main workstation, where I do the lion's share of my development and business work, is running Windows 7 x64 Ultimate, because it's still a BETTER system for doing serious work than Windows 8 or 8.1.  On the others I do research and product testing.  So far I've found no use whatsoever for Metro and Microsoft App Store toys. 

    All my systems are perfectly stable, and run for weeks between reboots, which are instigated by Windows Updates.

    The minute Microsoft makes a successor to Windows 7 that's actually MORE functional, productive, powerful, or usable than Windows 7, I'll upgrade my main workstation in a heartbeat.  I'm all for productivity.  What I couldn't give a rat's ass about is fashion.

    On all of my systems except XP I run ClassicShell, because it's just a BETTER implementation than any start menu Microsoft has ever produced in any of their systems.  I use it in "Classic Style" and keep my Start Menu organized so I can easily find one of the several hundred applications that I use infrequently.  The ones I do use all the time are icons that run across the top and bottom of my desktop.  This works very well indeed.  I spend virtually no time screwing around with my systems and all the time just getting work done.

    One nice part about using ClassicShell is that it provides a consistent experience on all my systems.  Continuity is good when you use multiple systems - or when you upgrade.  I find the search box capability better than Microsoft's as well.  It learns what I use the most and usually now when I type a few characters the tool I want to run just comes up on top of the list.

    Another nice thing about ClassicShell is that it's not just about replacing the Start Menu.  It also augments Explorer and Internet Explorer to provide some very nice things that Microsoft has seen fit to eliminate, such as status bars and highlighted text in the title bars.  It even replaces the "Are you sure?" type dialogs for Explorer operations so that you're given more information.  All in all it makes a Windows system better to use overall.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options


    • Edited by Noel Carboni Saturday, October 5, 2013 3:03 PM Added note about how ClassicShell does more than just replace the Start Menu
    Saturday, October 5, 2013 2:59 PM
  • For noel there is classic shell. Anyway, I am thrilled with windows 8 so far. It is better than windows 7. It seems like the tiles are to close together so it is more difficult to select from the group.
    Monday, October 7, 2013 6:02 AM
  • Well, to be fair there's nothing really wrong with using 3rd party software to facilitate your work, even if it takes over for things that the OS maker has chosen to move away from, or just doesn't do very well.  Some people might say that the UI isn't really the operating system at all, but just fluff, and some 3rd party software is very, very good indeed.

    Bottom line is this:  It's up to the OS maker to decide what parts they want to include with their OS.  It's up to us to decide how best to use it - or whether to use it at all.

    Some examples...

    • Except for Windows 7 (and somewhat in Vista), people have traditionally had to go to 3rd party applications to get good, reliable backup.  Microsoft actually - finally - got it right in Windows 7, integrated it nicely with their OS startup and restoral subsystems, and provided some nice user interfaces.  But now, they have determined that they don't really want to be the company that makes the backup, so suddenly it's deprecated.  That's certainly their choice to make.  But it doesn't make those of us who rely on Windows Backup in Windows 7 want the newer versions much.
       
    • Windows Search has never really worked right, and in fact it's not even designed to truly be a search at all.  So 3rd party search tools have been popular among people who want to be able to search for anything on demand, and to be able to rely on the search results.  Microsoft still makes it possible to turn off the ridiculous indexer part of Windows Search, which does nothing but burden a system without providing a great deal of benefit.
       
    • UAC was invented to try to protect the masses who, with the help of the Internet, were screwing up their computers in record time.  But it adds a burden to power users who actually know how to follow good practices and keep their systems clean, and these folks have traditionally turned it off.  That Microsoft has created a system with parts that won't even run with UAC turned off was a mistake.  That move alone proves they're turning Windows 8+ away from serious users.  There is no mistaking where this is going:  A goal of providing locked-down turnkey OS on which you can only run things they say you can run.
       

    If they want to remain a viable part of serious computing, Microsoft needs to continue to support the things power users need, and especially they need to document the system and support 3rd party augments of their functionality, because forcing people into line so as to suit their marketing goals will ultimately become a failed effort (the Microsoft App Store).

    The ONLY way to long-term success is to make an OS that's actually BETTER than the other alternatives.  Trying to change people's opinions about what's "hip" in hopes of making a quick profit is just stupid.  There are Marketing and Management types who think things like "perception is reality", without realizing that there are people in the world who actually need to be able to do the real, serious work that ultimately pays for the executives' corner offices.

    Let me be blunt:  Performance is reality.  Anything else is just window dressing.

        

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options



    Monday, October 7, 2013 5:49 PM
  • All the features are still there if you can find them. The new start menu may not be as user friendly for a desktop and for tablets it will need improvement. The good thing is windows is configurable for example you can add many items to the new desktop right click menu and so on. The winx menu is useful. Still, all apps will appear on the new menu including installed desktop apps. It seems confusing at first but can be mastered. It just needs a little work. When android first came out there were doubts that it would be popular but has been refined over time. I think the start menu can be a success if on a straight tablet with only virtual keyboard. Tablet os is for tablet and desktop os is for desktop. The start menu should work more like ios or android. All settings should be transferred to the modern ui. A rerelease of win 7 should be available and downgrade options should be more flexible.
    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 2:59 AM
  • Darn it. My copy of 8.1 is on my lenovo which is on it way to the factory. I'm the one who wrote toolbars and rarely ever used the start Button. It's all in what your used to and what has been with you across operating systems. In my case I wrote the code.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 3:13 AM
  • What kind of code do you right- Would this mean for windows 8 or the toolbars I can create on the taskbar?
    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 9:44 AM
  • When we had real operating systems I was an OS developer for VMS engineering at Digital Equipment Corp.

    My toolbar that I wrote many years ago works on 8.1. "Security" has tightened and now the toolbar must be detached as a privileged task when the user logs on. So I use the task Scheduler for that. It works well.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 12:44 PM
  • I dont care what lenovo is doing.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 12:46 PM
  • "Except for Windows 7 (and somewhat in Vista), people have traditionally had to go to 3rd party applications to get good, reliable backup.  Microsoft actually - finally - got it right in Windows 7, integrated it nicely with their OS startup and restoral subsystems, and provided some nice user interfaces.  But now, they have determined that they don't really want to be the company that makes the backup, so suddenly it's deprecated.  That's certainly their choice to make.  But it doesn't make those of us who rely on Windows Backup in Windows 7 want the newer versions much."

    Although it has been deprecated it it can still be run under 8.1, thank appropriate deities,

    "UAC was invented to try to protect the masses who, with the help of the Internet, were screwing up their computers in record time.  But it adds a burden to power users who actually know how to follow good practices and keep their systems clean, and these folks have traditionally turned it off.  That Microsoft has created a system with parts that won't even run with UAC turned off was a mistake.  That move alone proves they're turning Windows 8+ away from serious users.  There is no mistaking where this is going:  A goal of providing locked-down turnkey OS on which you can only run things they say you can run."

    I always turn the trashy UAC off. There are things that cannot be done without having it on but I forget what they are. What are they are where can reading be done on this?

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 1:00 PM
  • "You are part of the 1% of people that know how to use computers and program computers.

    What about the 99% of people that do not know? "

    If a person cannot be bothered to learn about computers but uses them-I dont care about them. They are the people who make Windows as poor as it is.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me


    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 1:06 PM
  • Hi Noel,

    Years ago I wrote my own toolbar and rarely if ever use the start button with it I use 8.1 and the desktop with impunity except that 8.1 is on a Lenovo that was water damaged and has gone back to lenovo under warranty.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 1:18 PM
  • All the features are still there if you can find them.

    Actually no, they're not.  Many are, all are not.  The de-integration of Backup and the Previous Versions UI are show-stoppers for me.  And yes, I know about File History - which doesn't do the same thing and doesn't actually work right. 

    And there's no way outside of 3rd party add-ons to enable drop-shadows around windows on the desktop.  Most people who aren't attuned to the subtle things that make a UI more usable don't even realize how much this degrades the desktop experience. 

    There are other things you just can't do as well, and the number of good things added, such as the ability to directly mount ISO files, just don't add up to enough incentive to upgrade.

    If you're having trouble finding the "To Work" features, see my books.  I've already done the research.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    • Proposed as answer by Renee Culver Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:24 PM
    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 2:14 PM
  • Hi Noel,

    I feel like you do. Backup is not gone, but it is harder to use which may be a good thing. I wish my 8.1 system were here now so I could respond more intelligently. I have no use for store tasks anyway so it's no loss to me if I cant run them with UAF turned off. I've never bothered with file history and have no plan to. But I do love Backup/restore and wish they would stay. It would be different if it was replaced by something better but it isn't.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 2:29 PM
  • Renee, Windows Backup is still (barely) available in Windows 8.1, but they've completely removed the user interface, save for the wbadmin command.

    I'm as geeky as anyone, and can easily deal with setting things up via command lines, BUT...  In Windows 8 it was "deprecated" but the UI was included in the Windows 7 Backup section of the control panel.  In Windows 8.1 it no longer has a graphic UI at all.  See where this is going?  Would YOU trust something that's getting that little respect to be able to restore your system in a pinch?

    It's not just about the Backup UI, but about how well it integrates with things like the startup and system restore processes.  My confidence that Microsoft has a good handle on everything they do, and that these features are still viable, is long gone.  They clearly don't want to provide the functionality they provided in Windows 7 - and that's their choice.  It's my choice to determine whether what's left that they do provide is still valuable enough to buy/use.

    Make no mistake, I have several fully functional, fully tweaked Windows 8 and 8.1 systems here.  They work fine.  They just don't do anything BETTER enough to offset the downsides and make them worth considering for anything more than test/research systems.

      

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options


    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 2:54 PM
  • "See where this is going? "

    Reference?


    Common sense.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 3:06 PM
  • "See where this is going? "

    Reference?

    If you must have documentation...

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh848073(v=vs.85).aspx

    What they don't say is that if you actually try to USE File History you find it's not an acceptable and complete replacement for Windows Backup.  You have to actually try to set it up to understand how it's not really producing a true Backup at all.

       

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 3:12 PM
  • "They clearly don't want to provide the functionality they provided in Windows 7 - and that's their choice."

    Functionality is confusing to the masses. They really need a version of Windows that has ooomph but let's see that would attract 1%. Not worth it in terms of sales, Where is this leading? Terminal Dumbness?

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 3:24 PM
  • You see, I believe those numbers like "1%" that you're "throwing out" are wrong - WAY wrong.

    It's the universal adoption by business that has spurred the masses using Windows.  What they used at work they also chose to use at home.  It just makes sense.

    I believe the number of corporate/enterprise users is FAR in excess of 1% of Windows' market.  Sure, not every one of them is ready to jump to Windows 8 in a heartbeat - some businesses are still running Windows 2000 and many XP - but continuity and compatibility are the factors that will keep them using Windows.  New hardware has to be bought sooner or later.  Eliminate that continuity - i.e., make new computers require the same kind of "start over" effort that buying into a whole different architecture would require - and what's to stop IT departments from considering Macs or Android-based systems?

    I'm sure Microsoft feels they can slide along successfully on the great reputation of Windows 7 with business for quite a while still, and the executives who have turned the boat toward the rocks are planning to be long gone - sitting on the beach in front of their mansions watching the boat crash.  That's already happening.  Where is Sinofsky?  What's happening with Ballmer?

    We are left to suffer with a system that was driven by vision for decades now being driven into the ground by greed.

      

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 3:50 PM
  • "We are left to suffer with a system that was driven by vision for decades now being driven into the ground by greed."

    EXACTLY!!!!!

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 4:24 PM
  • The 1% I spoke of refers to the people who can read, write and understand code.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 4:29 PM
  • "The minute Microsoft makes a successor to Windows 7 that's actually MORE functional, productive, powerful, or usable than Windows 7,"

    You see, Functionality confuses the hoypaloy (or however it's spelled). They will not go for functionality.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me



    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 4:33 PM
  • Backup is gone. If you like to backup partitions and drives Apple hasn't dropped that feature. You can even backup an full iPhone image.
    Tuesday, October 8, 2013 10:32 PM
  • Backup has not gone as of 8.1. I wouldn't consider Apple ever.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Wednesday, October 9, 2013 12:20 AM
  • Your right it is here:

    http://blogs.technet.com/b/keithmayer/archive/2013/09/17/backup-amp-recovery-of-windows-8-windows8-itpro-tipoftheday.aspx#.UlTw03nD-pk

    File history saves my documents.

    It does not save anything on the desktop and no real options.

    • Edited by ONE ZERO Wednesday, October 9, 2013 6:17 AM
    Wednesday, October 9, 2013 6:13 AM
  • It would not bother me on a tablet which is web browse and tile app and even then tiles don't arrange properly.
    Wednesday, October 9, 2013 7:51 AM
  • No. FULL Backup is in 8.1 but the 8.1 version is command driven.

    Here is an example of a commandline:

    wbAdmin start backup -backupTarget:E: -include:C: -allCritical -quiet

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:32 PM
  • Everything command line: What's the point?
    Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:20 AM
  • "Everything command line: What's the point?"

    Im asking what the point of graphics are? My real operating system VMS from which windows was copied had no tra-la-la graphics. It was strictly a command line system and it was far better than Windows.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me


    • Edited by Renee Culver Thursday, October 10, 2013 12:08 PM
    Thursday, October 10, 2013 12:07 PM
  • the GUI of the full system image is still there, but hidden under File History:


    http://www.hanselman.com/blog/CreateACompleteSystemImageBackupWithWindows81AndFileHistory.aspx


    "A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code"

    Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:32 PM
  • Extra: The start menu is still there but it is accessed entirely through power shell.
    Friday, October 11, 2013 8:18 AM
  • YAY- I found the backup!!!! You are correct.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Friday, October 11, 2013 1:52 PM
  • The backup option is not available for 8.1 but is present on 8.0.
    Friday, October 11, 2013 8:44 PM
  • It most certainly is. I did not have a password for it but Look under File History at the lower left in control panel.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Friday, October 11, 2013 8:48 PM
  • Only system image is there in 8.1.
    Friday, October 11, 2013 8:54 PM
  • No, All disks on the system are there. Being a systems person and givne that our files are on C: also, that's all I need.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Friday, October 11, 2013 8:58 PM
  • The GUI file backup function where the user can select what to backup is removed from version 8.1.
    Friday, October 11, 2013 9:02 PM
  • As far as I am concerned that's not a backup.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Friday, October 11, 2013 9:10 PM
  • File backup is a schedualed task good for safegarding data becouse docs in a typical backup may be more up to date than those in a system image.
    Saturday, October 12, 2013 1:33 PM
  • the GUI of the full system image is still there, but hidden under File History

    I'm not running the Win 8.1 RTM yet, but from what I can see there's no way to schedule system image backups there (please let me know if I'm wrong).  If that's true, the backup GUI is degraded; integration is reduced.

    I have set up System Image backups of my Win 7 desktop system to run every night.  I would, of course, want to do that with Windows 8 if I adopted it.  The Windows Backup tool in Windows 7 sets that up via the Task Scheduler.  With my setup, I can on any given day restore my system from a catastrophic failure and do a bare metal recovery.

    Yes, these are all still things one could set up via the Task Scheduler directly or perhaps the wbadmin command, but should we just accept Microsoft removing functionality without replacing it with viable equivalent functionality?  Why remove the Task Scheduler integration?  Does Microsoft really save all that much maintenance cost (as compared to the billions in sales) by eliminating those dialogs?

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options


    Sunday, October 13, 2013 3:35 PM
  • "I have set up System Image backups every night of my Win 7 desktop system.  "

    This is a truly high quality discussion. I dont run 8.1 yet but look under file history for system backups. Doing nightly System backups must require MUCH space. How do you do it?

    Renee

    I just checked and under 8.0 a full backup is possible under File History in the lower left hand corner.


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me


    Sunday, October 13, 2013 3:46 PM
  • Actually, it doesn't require as much space or time as you might think.  Microsoft actually implemented some very clever stuff under the covers, so it works better than you'd think.  The fact that it works so well (in Windows 7) is one of the reasons I find it so disappointing that they're turning away from it.

    1.  I run a big SSD array that appears as a 2 TB drive C:.  I run my entire system from C: - OS, applications, data, swap, scratch - though I do have some 6 TB of additional (spinning) drives as well for low-access storage and backup.

    2.  I have scheduled nightly System Image backups starting at 1 am of drive C: to an inexpensive 3 TB external MyBook backup drive.

    3.  In addition to the System Image backup, toward dawn I also have the system copy certain critical files to various places, including the backup drive.  I do this via my own batch file and XCOPY.

    Windows actually does the backups incrementally, and depending on how much data I touch in a day the 1 am System Image backups actually complete in a few hours or less, and the data file backups finish quickly as well  - virtually always before I go to work on my system in the morning.

    As a result, I have the ability to do System Restore, retrieve files from System Image backups via Previous Versions, retrieve files via copy from the file backups, or even do a bare metal restoral of one of multiple images on the external backup drive going back quite some time.

    And I still have over 900 GB free on my backup drive.

    P.S., If you ever want to experience how virtual memory system designers such as Mr. Cutler envisioned their systems working, run an entire system from mass storage array that can sustain almost 2 gigabytes per second throughput.  And it doesn't make any of that awful clicking disk noise.  :)

       

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Sunday, October 13, 2013 5:54 PM
  • I know this is a Windows 8 thread, but Renee asked...

     

     

     

      

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Sunday, October 13, 2013 6:04 PM
  • That's great Neil, but I already know how Mr. Cutler intended it on a real system - VMS ;)

    None of this windows crap with no sources. 

    You've done well.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me


    Sunday, October 13, 2013 6:14 PM
  • Cutler never had gigabyte speed mass storage on a Vax system, I suspect.  I worked a lot of years with Vaxes and before that PDPs, so I know very well where you're coming from.  But time and technology have marched on.  I'm just happy to have his NT system running on modern hardware as part of Windows 7.

    I suppose I should figure out the exact commands / Task Scheduler machinations that will get the same backup job done on a Windows 8.1 system.  Not that I'm planning on swapping out my Windows 7 system any time soon, but it would be good to know how to do.

       

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Sunday, October 13, 2013 6:50 PM
  • Our RA-81 was 1/2 gig and our RA-82 was a gig. That was in 82, before Cutler had left.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Sunday, October 13, 2013 11:25 PM
  • Oops, I take that bacl thw Ra-81 was 1/4 gig and the RA-82 was 1/2 gig. Sorry.

    Renee


    "MODERN PROGRAMMING is deficient in elementary ways BECAUSE of problems INTRODUCED by MODERN PROGRAMMING." Me

    Sunday, October 13, 2013 11:28 PM
  • The "R" could stand for anything. 
    Sunday, October 13, 2013 11:36 PM
  • Local Disk always works

    Sunday, October 13, 2013 11:47 PM
  • Almost.
    Monday, October 14, 2013 3:00 AM
  • Our RA-81 was 1/2 gig and our RA-82 was a gig. That was in 82, before Cutler had left.

    Now, imagine a storage system capable of copying all the data from those drives in a small fraction of a second.  That's what I am talking about:  Gigabyte+ per second storage speed, not capacity.

     

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Monday, October 14, 2013 3:39 AM
  • I too have had a few occasions where I woke up in the dark of the night, and didn't know where I was, or who I was.  But it has happened extremely rarely and only lasted a few moments.

    Ever look at a mapped network drive and wonder what it was connected to?  I don't because I name my drives per their letter and computer name.  You should pick up my book some time; I include a lot of good advice like that.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Monday, October 14, 2013 3:53 AM