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Best way to backup DPM 2012 to the cloud for 10TB and costs/retrieval quarterly? DPM 2016? RRS feed

  • Question

  • We run DPM 2012 here on site.. we dont have anything fancy.. no clusters or other setups.. just a server with DPM and about 15 hard drives that we can go back on drive 30 days locally.... currently we use a tape system to go back quarterly (DLT s4 800/1600 tapes).. takes up 12 tapes for 10TB of data.. i think the overall size of the dpm array is around 39TB.

    I did read that there is DPM 2016 which uses less space.. i wasnt sure if that was as easy as migrating the old software in place or maybe would require building another big server to get things backed up using the new software.. unsure if dpm 2016 would ease the idea of a cloud backup.

    The goal here is to eliminate taking home tapes or having to buy another tape system (higher capacity).. we currently can go back to any quarter in the last year for retrieval.. i'm not 100% up on cloud options and how far back they go or if they can even sync DPM offsite.

    I think i read that Amazon can do hyper v generic backups from the servers themselves (unsure if granular file restorations can be done, this is key).. so i was hoping for a more DPM to DPM type backup.

    The secondary question here is cost per month and where to find those figures.. with a budget of say $400/month, i'm not sure 10TB going back at minimum one quarter to maybe any quarter in the last year would work?

    Any suggestions on how to achieve this?

    Thanks in advance


    Tech, the Universe, Everything: http://tech-stew.com Just Plane Crazy http://flight-stew.com

    Wednesday, October 25, 2017 2:59 PM

All replies

  • Any suggestions out there?  Veem, or other options maybe.. this area seems to be vague with no real answers.. but from the sounds of it most solutions only charge if you need to retrieve data, but not sure given we have such a large amount to replicate.

    Tech, the Universe, Everything: http://tech-stew.com Just Plane Crazy http://flight-stew.com

    Thursday, October 26, 2017 3:28 PM
  • DPM 2016 has the ability to use Azure backup.

    Cost depends on how redundant you want to get with your data. Do you want LRS or GRS?

    I currently back up around 9TB in GRS and have a daily retention for 30 days and monthly retention of 1 year for most things.

    It is around $600-$700 per month and I pay as I go.

    Cost is computed by instances and type of storage.

    I think they have estimators.

    Also, no reason not to try it out for a couple months to get your run rate as you can still BU to tape.

    Friday, October 27, 2017 4:18 PM
  • DPM 2016 has the ability to use Azure backup.

    Cost depends on how redundant you want to get with your data. Do you want LRS or GRS?

    I currently back up around 9TB in GRS and have a daily retention for 30 days and monthly retention of 1 year for most things.

    It is around $600-$700 per month and I pay as I go.

    Cost is computed by instances and type of storage.

    I think they have estimators.

    Also, no reason not to try it out for a couple months to get your run rate as you can still BU to tape.

    I dont really know the terms lrs/grs, though i looked them up.. local redundant and geo redundant.. unsure what the difference is..

    We want to be able to have offsite retention of quarterly going back 1 year.. (and ideally once a year going back 10 years if possible)..

    I've seen the estimators but couldnt get a grasp on how this all works.. are you using 2016 or 2012.. we are on 2012, but i'm wondering if 2016 offers better ways of splitting offsite / tape data from the main backup (hdd backup).. i think our 10TB could become 5 if i seperate out all server OS backups and keep just those locally and only backup company/shares/sql data to the cloud (and also locally).

    It sounds as if the cost of $600 is in our range and i'd guess less if i cut the data size down?  Do you still do local tape as a 3rd failover.. our goal was to eliminate this (as we need to purchase a new tape system right now, so its either spend around $6000 on a tape system plus years worth of tapes, or put that towards a monthly fee)


    Tech, the Universe, Everything: http://tech-stew.com Just Plane Crazy http://flight-stew.com

    Monday, October 30, 2017 8:58 PM
  • https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/storage/common/storage-redundancy

    LRS  cannot withstand a data center failure. ie a disaster.

    GRS has your data at an additional DC.

    It all depends on your retention plan for how long you keep the data. I think anything is possible if you want to pay for it.

    I am using DPM 2016 UR4.

    You are not forced to backup to Azure. It is pretty flexible.

    I do not have tape.

    Monday, October 30, 2017 9:11 PM
  • https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/storage/common/storage-redundancy

    LRS  cannot withstand a data center failure. ie a disaster.

    GRS has your data at an additional DC.

    It all depends on your retention plan for how long you keep the data. I think anything is possible if you want to pay for it.

    I am using DPM 2016 UR4.

    You are not forced to backup to Azure. It is pretty flexible.

    I do not have tape.

    Yeah our ISO medical standards we have to adhere to would probably call for the GRS then.

    For the azure and pricing, i assume just contacting a rep at microsoft could clear up some of the questions and pricing etc.

    Back tracking to 2016.. i know with 2012 this wasnt possible..

    But.. can you make a Protection group that goes only to local hard drive, then have another that goes to tape (or to cloud).. ie: if i want that server data in one group separate from the data that needs to be in the cloud and harddrive, it would be nice to make two protection groups.. one that is hard drive only.. and maybe another for hard drive + tape/cloud..

    Or maybe it now lets you define what portions to send to tape/cloud?


    Tech, the Universe, Everything: http://tech-stew.com Just Plane Crazy http://flight-stew.com

    Monday, October 30, 2017 9:24 PM
  • You can use either DPM or VEEAM (both are capable of working with virtual tapes) plus StarWind Cloud VTL https://www.starwindsoftware.com/starwind-cloud-vtl-for-veeam which automatically offloads your backup to clouds primary storage and then based on retention policy to "cold" storage saving your budget. Currently, AWS S3 and Glacier are supported but Azure/Blob and Backblaze are coming pretty soon. And some additional protection never hurts especially using DPM whose backup files format is hit by ransomware.

    Best regards,

    Taras Shved

    StarWind Software

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    Note: Posts are provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to the implied warranties of merchantability and/or fitness for a particular purpose.

    Tuesday, October 31, 2017 10:19 AM
  • I believe you can have two vaults - one LRS and one GRS, but I only have one so do not hold me to that.

    You could then place the data that is not as critical on the cheaper storage. LRS is like 1/2 the cost of GRS.

    Pricing is kind of hard to come by. It is priced per GB and then per instance (server or VM). Basically it is compute and storage. There is a script that you can get that will go through your current DPM and come up with an estimated cost.

    Personally, if you have a some discretion, I would stand up a DPM 2016 UR4 server and try it out. MS gives you like $200 for the 1st month evaluation. It will take a while to get your data up into Azure depending on bandwidth. So, just do pay as you go and spend $500 and see if it works for you. 

    You can make a PG that only goes to local disk. Azure is not mandatory even with in a PG. It is just a checkbox for each data source. I am not sure if you can do tape and Azure at the same time. You would need to test that.

    Tuesday, October 31, 2017 12:55 PM
  • I believe you can have two vaults - one LRS and one GRS, but I only have one so do not hold me to that.

    You could then place the data that is not as critical on the cheaper storage. LRS is like 1/2 the cost of GRS.

    Pricing is kind of hard to come by. It is priced per GB and then per instance (server or VM). Basically it is compute and storage. There is a script that you can get that will go through your current DPM and come up with an estimated cost.

    Personally, if you have a some discretion, I would stand up a DPM 2016 UR4 server and try it out. MS gives you like $200 for the 1st month evaluation. It will take a while to get your data up into Azure depending on bandwidth. So, just do pay as you go and spend $500 and see if it works for you. 

    You can make a PG that only goes to local disk. Azure is not mandatory even with in a PG. It is just a checkbox for each data source. I am not sure if you can do tape and Azure at the same time. You would need to test that.

    So i assume that pricing then counts the number of Vm's/servers that are backed up on the DPM instance.. ill have to track down this script and see.

    It seemed in the past you couldnt make one PG that was just disk only and another that was tape for instance, so if they have tweaked this, this is a bonus.

    Curious on your DPM server.. what sort of hardware specs is your server.. we need to build a whole new one, still debating minimal cpu to go with and type of raid system.. leaning towards another Sas 12gb setup with 24 ish drives (supermicro) and 8 port expander card.. i'm really hoping they cut down on the size requirement too.. as of now we have 30TB of actual space installed.


    Tech, the Universe, Everything: http://tech-stew.com Just Plane Crazy http://flight-stew.com

    Wednesday, November 1, 2017 8:23 PM
  • I wanted to share a couple of tools that you could use to get a closer estimate on the monthly cost for Azure Backup with System Center DPM. More about how Azure Backup is priced when using SC DPM is available here, explaining how protected instances are priced, and linking to a PowerShell Script you can run on your DPM server to collect information on what you’re currently protecting.  Then, you can plug in those numbers into a TCO calculator Excel spreadsheet to estimate cost.

    Alternately, there’s a capacity planner where you can plug in the number of instances being protected, along with your estimated data size and churn.

    My hardware is nothing great. Just an old server running hyper-v which is connected up to an old fiber channel SAN.

    DPM is a VM and the storage is presented as a VHDX. It all works fine. Latency and disk queue length are fine.

     
    Wednesday, November 1, 2017 8:44 PM
  • I wanted to share a couple of tools that you could use to get a closer estimate on the monthly cost for Azure Backup with System Center DPM. More about how Azure Backup is priced when using SC DPM is available here, explaining how protected instances are priced, and linking to a PowerShell Script you can run on your DPM server to collect information on what you’re currently protecting.  Then, you can plug in those numbers into a TCO calculator Excel spreadsheet to estimate cost.

    Alternately, there’s a capacity planner where you can plug in the number of instances being protected, along with your estimated data size and churn.

    My hardware is nothing great. Just an old server running hyper-v which is connected up to an old fiber channel SAN.

    DPM is a VM and the storage is presented as a VHDX. It all works fine. Latency and disk queue length are fine.

     

    I tried to use those calculators.. but i feel like the instances it counted in total werent right at all... i guess a one month trial will be in order.

    Either way we need a new dpm 2016 box.. the old one is dual woodcrest 2.0 ghz cpu's with direct attached sata II drives.. i still cant track down a cpu recommended list.. i gotta assume anything new i throw at it will be better.. i guess i could stick with raid 6 rather than raid10 for a backup server and maybe just sata III worst case, though sas 6 or 12 should be doable for us.

    I briefly thought about doing a hyperV guest for dpm, but i'm not sure for us there is much value.. we wont have a san (though i've been wishing we had one for years, but that was a starting cost of at least 20k here).

    Its good to know that it should be possible to create a non hard drive PG in 2016, so that one can be dedicated to tape only if so.. what i found in the past was you had to backup to hard drive even if you wanted to dumb down what you were sending to tape on every PG.


    Tech, the Universe, Everything: http://tech-stew.com Just Plane Crazy http://flight-stew.com

    Monday, November 6, 2017 6:48 PM
  • Anything DB driven needs to go to disk first before tape.

    I would recommend DPM as a guest because you can dedup the underlying VHDXs that DPM uses for the pool.

    Wednesday, November 15, 2017 6:29 PM