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IP Block List Provider - Any downside ?

Question
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I,'m thinking to implement the "IP Block List Providers". Which one would you suggest ?
I read only nice white paper on such setting, is there any downside you experienced or think of about "IP Block List Providers"
Thanks
Friday, May 6, 2011 8:38 AM
Answers
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Thanks, right now I'm more focused on understanding possible
impacts/issues by enabling such feature.
Based on your experiece, did such setting bring issues in your
environment ?I've to admit that I'm not using the native exchange spam filtering
(IMF ....) since, dating back to 15 years ago... or maybe more; I found
a filtering solution which did fit my needs; anyways, this doesn't mean
that I don't know how to set IMF up, just that imHo it lacks a number
of features and this makes it look like a spam filter from 20 years ago
(no, not kidding, nor trying to troll or start a flame, mind me) it's
just that
given the fact that you PAY it you'd expect to have some -at least-
kind of decent and UP TO DATE smtp filtering but probably someone
up in Redmond decided that we'll have to stay at the stone age or
either pay some $$$ to buy a filtering product <sigh>See, the rules of thumb of whatever spamfilter are... allow the "admin"
to set things in test mode and have a clear log of what's going on
and, allow the admin to set "scores" for each spam check and reject
a given message only if the score goes over the given limit; in both
cases the exchange filtering fails, so... given that it doesn't even
have
a way to use DNSWL (whitelists, to oppose to blacklists and which
should be checked BEFORE DNSBL checks) the "risks" let's call it
so missing a better term of using DNSBLs are mainly the classic
false-positive ones, that is, a given sending host which, for a reason
or another got listed in some DNSBL and is now unable to send you
jun... ahem... email :) such an issue is usually solved by using the
so called DNS whitelists (DNSWL), they work just like the DNSBLs
but instead of listing "bad sending host" they list "good ones" so,
the idea is basically to check DNSWLs first, see if the incoming IP
(since that's what the server sees) is whitelisted and, if that's the
case, skip whatever DNSBL lookup, otherwise, go on with the
lookups and all the other stuffAs (I hope) you realized by now, all this means trusting the opinion
of the DNSBLs you're using, so, it's important to pick reputable ones
and, at the same time, lists which won't "incorrectly list a bit ISP IP
by chance" but which will ensure that, if an IP is listed then it's at
99%
a BAD one; that's why I suggested the lists you'll see in my previous
post; and, if you want, give it a spin, see how they work for you and
then, make a decision; again, given that no one filters the same kind
of stuff, it's all about agreeing about "where the borderline is"- Marked as answer by vcnz Friday, May 6, 2011 1:50 PM
Friday, May 6, 2011 1:25 PM
All replies
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I,'m thinking to implement the "IP Block List Providers".
Which one would you suggest ?The "IP Block List Providers" better known as DNSBL
filtering is a method of filtering incoming connections
through the use of DNS lists which will return a "bad"
value in case a given incoming IP is a known spam
source; the pitfall whenever using such an approach
is that you'll need to use some rather "conservative"
lists, that is, lists which won't cause rejects on "good"
senders just since they sent out a couple "junk" emails
or the likeMy suggestion is to try the following lists
zen.spamhaus.org
ix.dnsbl.manitu.net
bb.barracudacentral.org
bl.spamcop.net
combined.njabl.org
v4.fullbogons.cymru.comand then, keep an eye (monitor, check the logs) your
box to see how they're behaving and, if needed to
adjust your settings; notice that the above lists are
decently conservative and quite reliable (in my own
experience) although, since not everyone "filters"
the same, you'll need to check them by yourself
also, and since you're at it; you may want to have
a look at the websites related to the various listshttp://www.barracudacentral.org/rbl
http://www.team-cymru.org/Services/Bogons/
HTH
Friday, May 6, 2011 9:22 AM -
Friday, May 6, 2011 9:31 AM
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zen.spamhaus.org
ix.dnsbl.manitu.net
bb.barracudacentral.org
bl.spamcop.net
combined.njabl.org
v4.fullbogons.cymru.comforgot, sorry; if/when you'll enable DNSBL filtering
it will be a good idea to set the rejection message
to something meaningful; if you refer to thisyou'll see that it's possible to create a custom reject
message and, I recommend something likeSorry, your IP %0 is blacklisted by %2
or either, for exchange 2007
Sorry, your IP {0} is blacklisted by {2}
so, in case someone's message gets incorrectly rejected
the sender will have a clue about the list which caused such
a rejection and may possibly fix the issue and get delistedFriday, May 6, 2011 9:40 AM -
Thanks, right now I'm more focused on understanding possible impacts/issues by enabling such feature.
Based on your experiece, did such setting bring issues in your environment ?
Friday, May 6, 2011 12:57 PM -
Thanks, right now I'm more focused on understanding possible
impacts/issues by enabling such feature.
Based on your experiece, did such setting bring issues in your
environment ?I've to admit that I'm not using the native exchange spam filtering
(IMF ....) since, dating back to 15 years ago... or maybe more; I found
a filtering solution which did fit my needs; anyways, this doesn't mean
that I don't know how to set IMF up, just that imHo it lacks a number
of features and this makes it look like a spam filter from 20 years ago
(no, not kidding, nor trying to troll or start a flame, mind me) it's
just that
given the fact that you PAY it you'd expect to have some -at least-
kind of decent and UP TO DATE smtp filtering but probably someone
up in Redmond decided that we'll have to stay at the stone age or
either pay some $$$ to buy a filtering product <sigh>See, the rules of thumb of whatever spamfilter are... allow the "admin"
to set things in test mode and have a clear log of what's going on
and, allow the admin to set "scores" for each spam check and reject
a given message only if the score goes over the given limit; in both
cases the exchange filtering fails, so... given that it doesn't even
have
a way to use DNSWL (whitelists, to oppose to blacklists and which
should be checked BEFORE DNSBL checks) the "risks" let's call it
so missing a better term of using DNSBLs are mainly the classic
false-positive ones, that is, a given sending host which, for a reason
or another got listed in some DNSBL and is now unable to send you
jun... ahem... email :) such an issue is usually solved by using the
so called DNS whitelists (DNSWL), they work just like the DNSBLs
but instead of listing "bad sending host" they list "good ones" so,
the idea is basically to check DNSWLs first, see if the incoming IP
(since that's what the server sees) is whitelisted and, if that's the
case, skip whatever DNSBL lookup, otherwise, go on with the
lookups and all the other stuffAs (I hope) you realized by now, all this means trusting the opinion
of the DNSBLs you're using, so, it's important to pick reputable ones
and, at the same time, lists which won't "incorrectly list a bit ISP IP
by chance" but which will ensure that, if an IP is listed then it's at
99%
a BAD one; that's why I suggested the lists you'll see in my previous
post; and, if you want, give it a spin, see how they work for you and
then, make a decision; again, given that no one filters the same kind
of stuff, it's all about agreeing about "where the borderline is"- Marked as answer by vcnz Friday, May 6, 2011 1:50 PM
Friday, May 6, 2011 1:25 PM -
This is the one many of my clients use with good result:
zen.spamhaus.org
I would avoid subscribing to multiple.
Recalling Exchange Messages Works! - http://www.windeveloper.com/recall/Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:50 PM -
zen.spamhaus.org
I would avoid subscribing to multiple.Up to you, that list is good, sure, but, in my direct
experience it only covers you from some types
of spam sources that's why I add some other
lists to the combo; see, the whole approach
mostly depends from the volume of traffic your
server handles; if it's quite high then improving
DNSBL rejection means lowering the load due
to other filtering methods (e.g. checking the
email data) if, otherwise, your traffic is low then
you may afford the idea of letting the email go
down to other filters for processingThursday, May 12, 2011 6:25 AM -
Using a lot of the same technology is not that useful. What is useful is to combine different filtering technologies. In fact this is what makes modern filters so effective.
RBLS are good at blocking certain type of spam Content based filters are good at blocking others.
The of course you have certain filters who are very effective for one type of organization but useless for others. For example character set filters…
WinDeveloper IMF Tune http://www.windeveloper.com/imftune/ Recalling Exchange Messages Works! http://www.windeveloper.com/recall/Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:07 AM -
Using a lot of the same technology is not that useful. What is useful
is to combine different filtering technologies. In fact this is what
makes modern filters so effective.I think you're missing the point, see, the spamhaus "zen" list focuses
on some well defined kinds of spam sources (IPs) which means (and
I can tell this from direct experience on several boxes and different
connections/environments) that, the list alone will let some bad hosts
slip through, this, in turn, means that they'll get to the "next level"
of the
spamfilter and, since usually they're designed to put the more "costly"
(in computational terms) filters "up the chain" you'll end wasting your
CPU cycles to reject a piece of junk which you may just have rejected
by adding some additonal lists to the "zen" oneRBLS are good at blocking certain type of spam
Content based filters are good at blocking others.There aren't just RBLs or "content filtering", or better said, those are
what you have in the Exchange IMF, but that isn't the only filter around
sure, it's what you get ... but that doesn't mean it's perfect or that
the
approach it uses is the only possible one; you're missing a whole lot
of other types of filtering, see... each stage of an SMTP transaction
carries some infos - increasingly - up to contents and there are ways
to run filtering at each single stage, not just at the connection one
and
at the "i got the whole message" one; not to say that while in IMF there
is no way to use filters (including DNSBLs) in "weighted mode", there
are other programs around allowing that ... and then some moreThursday, May 12, 2011 1:07 PM -
Hi ObiWan,
Please don't interpret my arguments strictly to be as a contradictory to yours.
My argument was not for or against IMF. I was making a general argument about the importance of mixing technologies. I can assure you that the technology mix approach is a standard in anti-spam solutions today.
BTW I am also talking from experience since I have been involved in the development of 2 commercial anti-spam products.
Recalling Exchange Messages Works! http://www.windeveloper.com/recall/Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:48 PM -
Hi ObiWan,
Hi there, Alexander !
Please don't interpret my arguments strictly to be as a contradictory
to yours.I didn't nor I'm "fighting" at all :) just trying to expand and clear my
point to ensure you get it right; sometimes I'm unclear, so... well :)My argument was not for or against IMF. I was making a general
argument about the importance of mixing technologies.
I can assure you that the technology mix approach is a standard
in anti-spam solutions today.I see and understand, I wasn't against IMF either, sure, looking at
it and at some other solutions (including forefront) IMF is "limited"
yet... it's there and works well enough :)BTW I am also talking from experience since I have been involved in
the development of 2 commercial anti-spam products.Hm... now I'm interested; I've been using an external filtering solution
for my (and my customers) mailservers for years now and, while it
isn't exactly easy to setup and master, it's a real killer (at least in
my
experience)... and there's a similar (not the same) commercial app
which I tried time ago and which I found quite good... mind naming
the products ? If you can't then ok, no problem, I'll understand !Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:56 PM -
Today I work on IMF Tune :))
http://www.windeveloper.com/imftune
I also worked on a reputation service which I believe no longer exists, not my fault though :)
I also worked for one of the big Anti-spam/Security software companies, but that’s a secret.
Recalling Exchange Messages Works! http://www.windeveloper.com/recall/Thursday, May 12, 2011 4:24 PM -
Today I work on IMF Tune :))
http://www.windeveloper.com/imftuneI see... so, all in all, you're leveraging IMF :D
I also worked on a reputation service which
I believe no longer exists, not my fault though :)Hmm.... are you referring to a certain reputation service
which declared on their website that they were like
"Santa Claus" by chance :D ?I also worked for one of the big Anti-spam/Security software
companies, but that’s a secret.Not going to ask you to break any NDA or whatever :)
Thursday, May 12, 2011 4:34 PM -
Well some people complain about the limitations of IMF.
Others see that as an opportunity :)
Recalling Exchange Messages Works! http://www.windeveloper.com/recall/Thursday, May 12, 2011 4:53 PM -
Well some people complain about the limitations of IMF.
Others see that as an opportunity :)Sure; as usual, each coins has two sides :D
As for filtering, have a look at http://www.vamsoft.com/ the
approach is the right one imHo and the product is similar
to the one I've been used (and use) for quite a long time
now... and btw it may give you ... some ideas :DFriday, May 13, 2011 7:00 AM -
And that confirms what I told you before i.e. that spam filtering has to be dealt with using multiple filtering technologies.
That was my main argument, and your link confirms just that :D
Recalling Exchange Messages Works! http://www.windeveloper.com/recall/Monday, May 16, 2011 8:40 PM -