Answered by:
Question about 70-536

Question
-
I've just finished an intro course for Visual C# 2005 at a local tech school, and will soon be starting the course to prepare me for the 70-536 exam. In your opinion, if I'm able to dedicate 30-40 hrs/week for the required studying/training, how long would it realistically take me to learn everything that I need to learn to pass the exam on the first attempt with a score in the 900's, taking into account that I have no previous experience with Visual C# (other than the 4-week intro course that I just completed)?
The admissions advisor at my school says that a part-time student (10 - 15 hrs/week) should be able to finish the course and pass the exam in 8 weeks. Therefore a full-time student (20 - 30 hrs/week) should be able to accomplish this in roughly 4 weeks. Is this realistically possible?
For those of you who passed this exam, how much studying did you do (number of weeks or months, and number of hours per week), and did you already have prior experience in Visual C#? I'd especially like to hear from several of you who were fairly new to Visual C# when you took the 70-536 exam.
Thanks,
RudyWednesday, August 6, 2008 5:34 AM
Answers
-
WIth little to no experience, I think the guidance you are seeing here is correct. The exams are intended to certify the theoretical knowledge in the development area to ensure that candidates understand how to approach .NET development according to Microsoft's best practices, etc.
The timeframes I am seeing even from senior developers in my workplace to when they feel comfortable going after 70-536 are sometimes up to a month or two. Realizing that thier study time is probably not as much as you have.
That being said, i would wait at least several weeks. 70-536 is a good cross-framework exam so if this is one of the first you are going after in the .NET certification track, make sure your first exam attempt is a pass. In my experience, if folks fail on thier first exam they tend to get discouraged. So do what you can to pass the first time.
Realize also that you dont have to pressure yourself to score in the 900s. From Microsoft's point of view it doesnt matter if your score is a 730 or a 950, its the same credential and no employer or anyone else will ever see the numerical score on your transcript.
- Wayne S. Anderson MCITP, MCSE, MCT http://blog.avanadeadvisor.com/blogs/waynea- Proposed as answer by Wayne S. Anderson Wednesday, August 6, 2008 2:49 PM
- Marked as answer by BonJoviFan Thursday, August 7, 2008 4:28 PM
Wednesday, August 6, 2008 2:49 PM -
I study for both 70-536 and 70-528 together and it took at least three months because both exams are not related that is there is no over lap. Your skill level is very low so you may need at least three to four months but that is my opinion. I have covered all you need to pass the exam 70-536 in the two threads below and I am here to answer questions about areas help is needed.
http://forums.msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/CertGeneral/thread/13d317d8-daf5-46b1-b21d-9b8e0d35d0bd
http://forums.msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/CertGeneral/thread/016f96cd-3f7b-4ffe-b332-282b512f11dc
Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCITP BI & MCTS SQL Server 2005- Proposed as answer by Wayne S. Anderson Wednesday, August 6, 2008 2:50 PM
- Marked as answer by Michael D. Alligood Thursday, August 7, 2008 1:43 AM
Wednesday, August 6, 2008 12:06 PM -
Agreed with Caddre here..
I did the exams as part of the 70-551 upgrade and it was a lot of work. I was working in the technology during the day doing some complex development and in the evening working on the theory as well as practicing the code that was being described in the books as well as supplementing it with blogs etc etc.
I know most people who took the 70-536 would have been working in .NET (either 1.1 or 2.0) for a minimum of a year before attempting them.
- Marked as answer by BonJoviFan Thursday, August 7, 2008 4:28 PM
Wednesday, August 6, 2008 1:49 PM -
You just don't have .NET experience you have programmed in the past so you can finish MCTS in six months full time studying just make sure you buy Transcenders for all three exams 70-536, 70-528 and 70-547 and spend time with the materials I provided for Asp.net Scott's blog covers all you need and I have provided very good materials for 70-536.
http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/
Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCITP BI & MCTS SQL Server 2005- Marked as answer by BonJoviFan Thursday, August 7, 2008 4:29 PM
Wednesday, August 6, 2008 6:20 PM -
The amount of time that you will take in a formalized, structured learning environment is different. 6 months with instructor support and you really working at it should work fine. Use Transcenders (lets face it for what you are paying for the courses, the review practice exams are a drop in the bucket).
- Wayne S. Anderson MCITP, MCSE, MCT http://blog.avanadeadvisor.com/blogs/waynea- Marked as answer by BonJoviFan Thursday, August 7, 2008 4:29 PM
Thursday, August 7, 2008 1:37 AM
All replies
-
I study for both 70-536 and 70-528 together and it took at least three months because both exams are not related that is there is no over lap. Your skill level is very low so you may need at least three to four months but that is my opinion. I have covered all you need to pass the exam 70-536 in the two threads below and I am here to answer questions about areas help is needed.
http://forums.msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/CertGeneral/thread/13d317d8-daf5-46b1-b21d-9b8e0d35d0bd
http://forums.msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/CertGeneral/thread/016f96cd-3f7b-4ffe-b332-282b512f11dc
Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCITP BI & MCTS SQL Server 2005- Proposed as answer by Wayne S. Anderson Wednesday, August 6, 2008 2:50 PM
- Marked as answer by Michael D. Alligood Thursday, August 7, 2008 1:43 AM
Wednesday, August 6, 2008 12:06 PM -
Agreed with Caddre here..
I did the exams as part of the 70-551 upgrade and it was a lot of work. I was working in the technology during the day doing some complex development and in the evening working on the theory as well as practicing the code that was being described in the books as well as supplementing it with blogs etc etc.
I know most people who took the 70-536 would have been working in .NET (either 1.1 or 2.0) for a minimum of a year before attempting them.
- Marked as answer by BonJoviFan Thursday, August 7, 2008 4:28 PM
Wednesday, August 6, 2008 1:49 PM -
WIth little to no experience, I think the guidance you are seeing here is correct. The exams are intended to certify the theoretical knowledge in the development area to ensure that candidates understand how to approach .NET development according to Microsoft's best practices, etc.
The timeframes I am seeing even from senior developers in my workplace to when they feel comfortable going after 70-536 are sometimes up to a month or two. Realizing that thier study time is probably not as much as you have.
That being said, i would wait at least several weeks. 70-536 is a good cross-framework exam so if this is one of the first you are going after in the .NET certification track, make sure your first exam attempt is a pass. In my experience, if folks fail on thier first exam they tend to get discouraged. So do what you can to pass the first time.
Realize also that you dont have to pressure yourself to score in the 900s. From Microsoft's point of view it doesnt matter if your score is a 730 or a 950, its the same credential and no employer or anyone else will ever see the numerical score on your transcript.
- Wayne S. Anderson MCITP, MCSE, MCT http://blog.avanadeadvisor.com/blogs/waynea- Proposed as answer by Wayne S. Anderson Wednesday, August 6, 2008 2:49 PM
- Marked as answer by BonJoviFan Thursday, August 7, 2008 4:28 PM
Wednesday, August 6, 2008 2:49 PM -
Thanks for the replies/advice. I wish I had the opportunity to work with this technology first BEFORE attempting these exams, but basically I'm in a situation where I have no choice but to learn this technology in a short amount of time just to make myself marketable enough to get a job. I've been unemployed since March, and since there is very little or no demand here for RPG programming skills, I've been forced to quickly update my skills with more current technology so that I can work in IT again some day. So based on the advice of the admissions advisor at my tech school (who was aware of my lack of experience with C# and .NET technology), I enrolled in their MCTS/MCPD certification program, with the understanding that I would be able to complete the required courses and successfully pass the exams within a 6-month timeframe (assuming that I'm able to study 30-40 hours/week). It now appears that this goal might be improbable (but hopefully not impossible) due to my inexperience with C# and .NET.
Do you know of anyone who (like me) had no previous experience with C# and .NET, but was able to successfully pass the exams on the first attempts and earn their MCTS or MCPD certification within a 6-month timeframe?Wednesday, August 6, 2008 5:58 PM -
You just don't have .NET experience you have programmed in the past so you can finish MCTS in six months full time studying just make sure you buy Transcenders for all three exams 70-536, 70-528 and 70-547 and spend time with the materials I provided for Asp.net Scott's blog covers all you need and I have provided very good materials for 70-536.
http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/
Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCITP BI & MCTS SQL Server 2005- Marked as answer by BonJoviFan Thursday, August 7, 2008 4:29 PM
Wednesday, August 6, 2008 6:20 PM -
The amount of time that you will take in a formalized, structured learning environment is different. 6 months with instructor support and you really working at it should work fine. Use Transcenders (lets face it for what you are paying for the courses, the review practice exams are a drop in the bucket).
- Wayne S. Anderson MCITP, MCSE, MCT http://blog.avanadeadvisor.com/blogs/waynea- Marked as answer by BonJoviFan Thursday, August 7, 2008 4:29 PM
Thursday, August 7, 2008 1:37 AM -
Thank you all for the info/advice. I'll go ahead and start the coursework for the 70-536 exam next week, with the intention of taking the exam after about 3 months of diligent studying and practicing. I plan on attending campus during the day for 30+ hrs/week, and will also study for 15 - 20 hrs/week at home in the evenings and weekends. It's gonna be tough, but I'm extremely motivated and driven to achieve my goal of earning the MCTS certification within 6 months.
Thanks again,
RudyThursday, August 7, 2008 5:03 PM -
Rudy,
I am here anything you don't understand in the material post again and I can help and see if you can pickup Jeffery Richter and Herbert Schildt books at the start of your class because both books explains things not covered in the docs.
Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCITP BI & MCTS SQL Server 2005Thursday, August 7, 2008 5:15 PM -
Probably i will go for this exam too, but i have a simple question, if i pass this one i will become a MCP or i will have to pass another exam to became a MCTS? Im working with .NET 3.5 so i need to take this exam to try the 3.5 framework exams, but would be nice to have a MCP title too =)
If passing this exam wont give a MCP title, im willing to try 70-229 (SQL Server 2000) just to become an MCP and have both titles, MCP and MCTS.
Felipe MommSaturday, August 9, 2008 2:18 PM -
It is the .NET framework base exam so you don't get any title with it, I have covered the subject in the thread below. That is the reason it is also required for the .NET 3.5 exams.
http://forums.msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/CertGeneral/thread/8949c0dd-ceed-4b0b-a9e3-907ed685a032
Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCITP BI & MCTS SQL Server 2005Saturday, August 9, 2008 2:27 PM -
Caddre said:
Rudy,
I am here anything you don't understand in the material post again and I can help and see if you can pickup Jeffery Richter and Herbert Schildt books at the start of your class because both books explains things not covered in the docs.
Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCITP BI & MCTS SQL Server 2005
Thanks Caddre, I'm sure I'll be posting often, lol.
Here's another question......for someone like me who is just beginning to learn Visual C# and .NET technology, what would be considered a good/satisfactory score on the exam? I was originally hoping to score in the 900s, but given my lack of experience with C# and .NET, I think it would be very difficult for me to achieve that. So should I be satisfied with myself if I score somewhere in the 800s, or even in the high 700s?
Thanks,
RudyWednesday, August 13, 2008 7:05 PM -
Both exams deals with features defined and how to use these features to develop .NET based application so pay attention to the code in your classes and the practice exams. There are also restrictions in some sections how do you perform the development tasks with those restrictions in place.
If you read Richter and Schidlt you can pass with above 900 points because they cover what Microsoft did not tell you.
Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCITP BI & MCTS SQL Server 2005Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:07 PM -
I am nearly finished with Unit 1 of my 70-536 course (which covers Chapters 1 & 2 of the MCTS 70-536 Self-Paced Training Kit), and feel completely overwhelmed by the material, even though I read both chapters twice and performed the lessons in each chapter twice also. I'm hoping that my initial frustration and confusion with this book will be alleviated once I've had a chance to go through the material presented in the books by Richter and Schildt that you recommended. Those books haven't arrived yet, so I got impatient and started Chapters 1 and 2 in the MCTS 70-536 Self-Paced Training Kit on Monday.
Should I read the books by Richter and Schildt BEFORE attempting to work with the MCTS 70-536 Self-Paced Training Kit? If so, that would explain why I feel quite overwhelmed and intimidated by the material in the training kit.Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:27 AM -
BonJoviFan said:Honestly, and I really don't want to diminish your effort and your drive to get it done, but some things simply can't be rushed. Everyone is different of course, but there's simply no substitute for experience. That's why people who come right out of college, or those who grab a cert in a few weeks, are in fact not worth that much in the work place. No amount of certs and score can make up for having actually done the work.
... that would explain why I feel quite overwhelmed and intimidated by the material in the training kit.
Perhaps I will be alone in this, but I would like to propose that your approach may not be the best solution to your problem (considering unemployment to be the underlying problem). If you rush the cert, and then by some streak of luck land a job where they somehow take the cert at face value and don't perform an actual skill test, then you may be in a worst situation yet; having a job that you are unable to perform.
Maybe there's an opportunity to take a "stop gap" job? Just something you do while you educate yourself at a more reasonable pace, with better results, and then leave that job for one that you would really like to have?Saturday, August 16, 2008 9:37 AM -
I was like you back in 2001 when another crappy book the first edition of C# step by step almost made me drop C# and I was from Java. Then I picked up Herbert Schildt and C# almost become easy because most things not covered by Microsoft he tells you in one or two lines because he did not cover Visual Studio just the language. Take it easy the people who wrote that crappy book don't know C#, Microsoft may know what they know but they don't have the skills to write such a comprehensive exam book. So instead of getting overwhelmed read the very long two part errata for that crappy book so you know what you will get from it.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/923018http://support.microsoft.com/kb/935218
German, Rudy is from RPG so I am now telling you he will do better in Asp.net development using DB2 than most existing .NET develpers who don't know IBM tools. Rudy spend time with the errata while you wait for the better books.
Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCITP BI & MCTS SQL Server 2005Saturday, August 16, 2008 1:42 PM -
The German said:BonJoviFan said:Honestly, and I really don't want to diminish your effort and your drive to get it done, but some things simply can't be rushed. Everyone is different of course, but there's simply no substitute for experience. That's why people who come right out of college, or those who grab a cert in a few weeks, are in fact not worth that much in the work place. No amount of certs and score can make up for having actually done the work.
... that would explain why I feel quite overwhelmed and intimidated by the material in the training kit.
Perhaps I will be alone in this, but I would like to propose that your approach may not be the best solution to your problem (considering unemployment to be the underlying problem). If you rush the cert, and then by some streak of luck land a job where they somehow take the cert at face value and don't perform an actual skill test, then you may be in a worst situation yet; having a job that you are unable to perform.
Maybe there's an opportunity to take a "stop gap" job? Just something you do while you educate yourself at a more reasonable pace, with better results, and then leave that job for one that you would really like to have?
Thanks for your input.
Before I enrolled at the tech school, the admissions advisor told me ....... 1) their students have a 96% success rate in passing the vendor exams on the first attempt......2) most of their students are working full-time, and usually complete a course and take the vendor exam within 2 months..... and 3) since I am unemployed and therefore able to study full-time, it will only take me about 1 month to complete each course and successfully pass the vendor exam for each course.
So based on this information, and based on the realization that I needed to quickly update my IT skills with more current technology in order to be more marketable and employable, I enrolled at the tech school, believing that I would be able to receive the MCTS and MCPD (and eventually SCJP) certifications in about 6 months or less. This now appears to be impossible, because it is becoming more and more obvious that the admission advisor's comments apply only to students who already have experience with C# and .NET technology. I believe their certification programs are for people who already have a good amount of work experience with the technology, and these certification programs are not appropriate for people like me who are just learning it for the first time.
I am hoping that my 20 years of experience as an RPG programmer on the IBM AS/400 will help, but it won't make up for the fact that I've never worked with C# or .NET before. So I know I'll have to work even harder and it will take longer than I originally thought in order to accomplish my goal.
At this point I will wait for the books by Richter and Schildt to arrive (which should be very soon). Before I get even more frustrated, confused, and discouraged, I think I'll put the 70-536 Self-Paced Training Kit aside for now, and go back to it after I feel I have a good understanding of the material in the other 2 books.
Caddre said:I was like you back in 2001 when another crappy book the first edition of C# step by step almost made me drop C# and I was from Java. Then I picked up Herbert Schildt and C# almost become easy because most things not covered by Microsoft he tells you in one or two lines because he did not cover Visual Studio just the language. Take it easy the people who wrote that crappy book don't know C#, Microsoft may know what they know but they don't have the skills to write such a comprehensive exam book. So instead of getting overwhelmed read the very long two part errata for that crappy book so you know what you will get from it.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/923018http://support.microsoft.com/kb/935218
German, Rudy is from RPG so I am now telling you he will do better in Asp.net development using DB2 than most existing .NET develpers who don't know IBM tools. Rudy spend time with the errata while you wait for the better books.
Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCITP BI & MCTS SQL Server 2005
Caddre, I was actually quite shocked to see how many errors were listed in the errata. It took me over 1 hour to go through the first errata and write the corrections in my book. I'm really, REALLY looking forward to receiving the books by Richter and Schildt, because after a week of confusion and frustration, at this point I don't even want to read the 70-536 training kit. I had planned on reviewing the material in the first 2 chapters this weekend, but I think I'll be better off waiting for the other books.
I was also hoping to become SCJP-certified at my tech school, but based on what I now know about certification programs (plus the fact that I have no prior Java experience), I think I should just forget about SCJP, and concentrate on MCTS.
Thank you both (and everyone else) for your very helpful input/advice/opinions.
RudySaturday, August 16, 2008 4:04 PM -
(I was actually quite shocked to see how many errors were listed in the errata.)I was not shocked because I know these people don't know enough about the comprehensive subjects covered by that exam.
(I enrolled at the tech school, believing that I would be able to receive the MCTS and MCPD (and eventually SCJP) certifications in about 6 months or less)Well they lied I was preparing for both IBM OOAD and Sun SCJP when I got the Microsoft email to start C# in the Java and C++ programmers roundup for .NET coversion so I know you cannot do both in six months or less.
So here is the prep using MSDN docs it is better than the prep book but not as good as those two books because Microsoft leaves out info sometimes for legal reasons. In software people who don't know a subject can take pages to tell you something an expert can tell you in one or two lines. Take it easy read the docs and try out the code in the docs while you wait.
http://www.dotnetfun.com/articles/certifications/Passing70536Certification.aspx
Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCITP BI & MCTS SQL Server 2005Saturday, August 16, 2008 5:12 PM -
Thanks for the dotnetfun link. I'll check it out tomorrow when I have more time.
On Monday I'll have my instructor/mentor remove the SCJP course from my course plan. Realistically, I won't have the time to attempt SCJP and complete it by next spring, since I'll be struggling just to get through the MCTS/MCPD courses.Saturday, August 16, 2008 6:30 PM -
BonJoviFan said:I am hoping that my 20 years of experience as an RPG programmer on the IBM AS/400 will help, but it won't make up for the fact that I've never worked with C# or .NET before. So I know I'll have to work even harder and it will take longer than I originally thought in order to accomplish my goal.
One thing I know for sure, the harder it gets and the further away the goals get, the harder it is to stay on track rather than just saying "f--k it". I know because I went through a major career change when I turned 30, and I felt pretty lost when I looked at what I needed to do to make a living.
I am now 35, and I am far from "done", in fact, those who think they are done with anything are stagnant, there is no such thing as "done". However, even though I still have years of continuing education ahead of me, I did manage to land a job that I like doing, that pays the bills, and that leaves enough disposable income to do some fun stuff every now and then.
I guess what I am saying is this; You are an expert at something, no, not at C#, but perhaps that doesn't matter as much for the immediate future. As someone with as much professional experience as you have, is it feasible for you to go back to work as entry level C# coder? Meaning is it worth your time to work for ..., well however much it is they pay C# coders where you are located (and considering the issues of globalization and outsourcing of a lot of coding)?
If it's about learning .Net (and again, I may be alone in this), maybe you would have an easier time with VB.Net? There is lots and lots of VB and VB.Net code out there that needs to be maintained and rewritten. As a skewed indicator of demand, look at monster.com and search for C#.Net jobs and VB.Net jobs. It is true that in most cases a C# coder will be able to command a higher salary, but as they say, money isn't everything.
Ask yourself what you want to do, rather than working on what may appear to be the "right" choice in terms of becoming employable. You have a very long track record (presumably) of delivering robust RPG solutions on time and on budget. You are not some flaky kid right out of school who doesn't know anything about life and business. It is true that a new skill set will likely make you more marketable to a broader range of employers, but if you are struggling with the material and the concepts as such, then your time may be better spent elsewhere.
Again, you are already an expert, the challenge is matching your skill set to a vacant position. Much of it will depend on other factors (i.e. family, willingness to relocate, etc. etc.), still, you absolutely need to know where you are going, otherwise you can't possibly get there. What I mean by that is; Let's say you get your cert, then what? Where do you want to work (locally, same state, same region, same country, anywhere?)? On what type of projects do you want to work? What type of company? What type of work atmosphere? Do you have language skills (as in foreign languages)? Do you want a full time position with benefits, or would temp work be acceptable? How much cash do you need to pull in to sustain your standard and save for retirement, or do you need to adjust your standards?
All these questions, and their answers of course, are of importance in deciding where to go and what to do. Whether it's C#, RPG, or a career change to something entirely different, all depends on the answers to the questions above.
Written communication is tricky, but the vibe I received from your posts was something along the lines of "If I learn C#.Net I will be employable, and if I don't learn C#.Net, then I won't be employable." C#.Net will make you employable at C#.Net shops, any other number of things will make you employable at other shops, and your current skill set already makes you employable somewhere. If the "somewhere" is the issue you are trying to avoid, then that probably won't work. Even with a C# and .Net cert you will likely still have to go where the work is.
You will continue to struggle with C# and .Net if your reason for learning it is "because it's the right thing to do". You will succeed in learning anything you like if you do it because you want to do it out of curiosity or facination. Right now C# and .Net is simply no fun for you, you do it because you have to, and it sucks.
I don't really know how to properly express this in English, I am German after all, but the bottom line is something that comes to mind from Alice in Wonderland, where the Alice is asking the Cheshire Cat which way she should go, and the Cat says that it depends on where she wants to end up, to which Alice replies that she doesn't care as long as she ends up somewhere. The Cat replies that if she doesn't care where she ends up, then it doesn't matter which way she takes, because no matter what, she will end up somewhere.
If you don't know what you want to do, you have no way to get there. Learning C# and .Net becomes something you do to pass time.Saturday, August 16, 2008 9:33 PM -
The German said:BonJoviFan said: I am hoping that my 20 years of experience as an RPG programmer on the IBM AS/400 will help, but it won't make up for the fact that I've never worked with C# or .NET before. So I know I'll have to work even harder and it will take longer than I originally thought in order to accomplish my goal.
One thing I know for sure, the harder it gets and the further away the goals get, the harder it is to stay on track rather than just saying "f--k it". I know because I went through a major career change when I turned 30, and I felt pretty lost when I looked at what I needed to do to make a living.
I am now 35, and I am far from "done", in fact, those who think they are done with anything are stagnant, there is no such thing as "done". However, even though I still have years of continuing education ahead of me, I did manage to land a job that I like doing, that pays the bills, and that leaves enough disposable income to do some fun stuff every now and then.
I guess what I am saying is this; You are an expert at something, no, not at C#, but perhaps that doesn't matter as much for the immediate future. As someone with as much professional experience as you have, is it feasible for you to go back to work as entry level C# coder? Meaning is it worth your time to work for ..., well however much it is they pay C# coders where you are located (and considering the issues of globalization and outsourcing of a lot of coding)?
If it's about learning .Net (and again, I may be alone in this), maybe you would have an easier time with VB.Net? There is lots and lots of VB and VB.Net code out there that needs to be maintained and rewritten. As a skewed indicator of demand, look at monster.com and search for C#.Net jobs and VB.Net jobs. It is true that in most cases a C# coder will be able to command a higher salary, but as they say, money isn't everything.
Ask yourself what you want to do, rather than working on what may appear to be the "right" choice in terms of becoming employable. You have a very long track record (presumably) of delivering robust RPG solutions on time and on budget. You are not some flaky kid right out of school who doesn't know anything about life and business. It is true that a new skill set will likely make you more marketable to a broader range of employers, but if you are struggling with the material and the concepts as such, then your time may be better spent elsewhere.
Again, you are already an expert, the challenge is matching your skill set to a vacant position. Much of it will depend on other factors (i.e. family, willingness to relocate, etc. etc.), still, you absolutely need to know where you are going, otherwise you can't possibly get there. What I mean by that is; Let's say you get your cert, then what? Where do you want to work (locally, same state, same region, same country, anywhere?)? On what type of projects do you want to work? What type of company? What type of work atmosphere? Do you have language skills (as in foreign languages)? Do you want a full time position with benefits, or would temp work be acceptable? How much cash do you need to pull in to sustain your standard and save for retirement, or do you need to adjust your standards?
All these questions, and their answers of course, are of importance in deciding where to go and what to do. Whether it's C#, RPG, or a career change to something entirely different, all depends on the answers to the questions above.
Written communication is tricky, but the vibe I received from your posts was something along the lines of "If I learn C#.Net I will be employable, and if I don't learn C#.Net, then I won't be employable." C#.Net will make you employable at C#.Net shops, any other number of things will make you employable at other shops, and your current skill set already makes you employable somewhere. If the "somewhere" is the issue you are trying to avoid, then that probably won't work. Even with a C# and .Net cert you will likely still have to go where the work is.
You will continue to struggle with C# and .Net if your reason for learning it is "because it's the right thing to do". You will succeed in learning anything you like if you do it because you want to do it out of curiosity or facination. Right now C# and .Net is simply no fun for you, you do it because you have to, and it sucks.
I don't really know how to properly express this in English, I am German after all, but the bottom line is something that comes to mind from Alice in Wonderland, where the Alice is asking the Cheshire Cat which way she should go, and the Cat says that it depends on where she wants to end up, to which Alice replies that she doesn't care as long as she ends up somewhere. The Cat replies that if she doesn't care where she ends up, then it doesn't matter which way she takes, because no matter what, she will end up somewhere.
If you don't know what you want to do, you have no way to get there. Learning C# and .Net becomes something you do to pass time.
Sorry for the very delayed reply. I actually thought that I had already replied, but apparently I didn't.
First of all, I must say that your English is actually excellent, and your writing style, grammar, and sentence structure are much better than most corporate professionals who I have worked with. You have conveyed your thoughts very eloquently, and because you have a very strong command of the English language, I never would have guessed that English wasn't your first language.
You wrote.....
Written communication is tricky, but the vibe I received from your posts was something along the lines of "If I learn C#.Net I will be employable, and if I don't learn C#.Net, then I won't be employable."
You are correct in your assessment of my situation. Because I want to continue my IT career as a programmer/developer, it appears that the only way for me to accomplish this is to acquire newer programming skills that are currently in demand in the IT market. There are still RPG programming opportunities out there, but due to the economic recession and dwindling demand for RPG skills, the number of good opportunities is very small in my area, and I believe that it will get much worse over the next few years. Therefore, I felt it was best for me to take advantage of the opportunity to acquire some newer IT skills in order to make myself more marketable and employable. Even though this is traditionally a slow time of year for companies to hire new employees, and despite this horrible economic recession, the demand for C# developers is actually very strong in my area, and the recruiters I have spoken with have said that I shouldn't have a problem finding employment in early spring 2009 when I am finished with my courses.
I guess some of my early frustration and confusion with C# is due to the fact that I was trying to relate everything in C# to RPG. In some cases, it was possible to come up with a direct one-to-one correlation between something in C# with something in RPG (for example....the counterpart of a C# method is an RPG subroutine...and invoking a method is the same as executing a subroutine). But in other cases, there is no RPG-equivalent of something in C# (the concepts of Serialization & Reflection don't exist in RPG programming). I think once I stopped trying to relate everything in C# to something in RPG, my level of frustration and confusion decreased. I also realized that C# (as well as most other object-oriented programming languages) are much more complicated than the programming languages that I worked with professionally and learned in school (RPG, COBOL, BASIC, FORTRAN, Pascal), and I need to be more patient and allow more time for certain concepts to make sense. I also believe that it will take at least a year (probably more) of working professionally with C# and .NET technology to truly feel comfortable with it.
Exactly 2 months after beginning 70-536, on October 8 I took the Microsoft exam and passed with a score of 911.
Since then, I have taken the 70-528 course (October 8 - November 14) and passed the Microsoft exam with a score of 947.
I also completed the 70-526 course (November 17 - December 16) and passed the Microsoft exam with a score of 980.
Needless to say, I'm ecstatic and surprised about passing all 3 exams with scores over 900, especially considering all my initial confusion and frustration. But I've always been a good student (usually "head of the class", or if not, usually in the top 1 - 5% of my class) and have always had good study habits. So maybe I shouldn't be too surprised at my success. Still, I do believe that it will take over a year of employment to start feeling comfortable with C# and .NET.
I guess I have always known that I wanted to do web app programming and website development, so I am now enrolled in a course for the CIW (Certified Internet Web) Associate certification. I may also take another course to upgrade to CIW Professional. It appears that most of the job postings in my area for C# and ASP.NET web app programmers and website developers require knowledge/skills in HTML, XHTML, CSS, and Javascript. So it makes sense for me to learn more about these.
Thank you all for your helpful advice, encouraging comments, and useful information. Everything that was said helped give me the information and confidence that I needed to successfully complete my courses and pass the exams. I would like to wish everyone in advance a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
RudySaturday, December 20, 2008 7:39 PM -
Rudy,
Congratulations see I told you not to let people confuse or discourage you. Happy holidays.
Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCTS TFS, MCITP BI and DBASaturday, December 20, 2008 7:56 PM -
Rudy,
Congrats for your success. You took limited time to pass all three exams.
I'm going to start 70-536. Can you give me some studying tips please.
Thank you in advance.
Kandy
Monday, January 26, 2009 10:04 PM -
Hello,
I was browsing for information on certifications when I started reading your conversation string. I want to thank The German and BonJoviFan (Rudy) for their candid sharing. I was laid off due to corporate downsizing. I have been applying for jobs in my area, but everything is requiring .NET. I worked with Visual Basic 6 (VB6), and thought this would qualify me for job opportunities. VB6 is NOT the same as VB.NET.
I was a COBOL programmer for 25 years, also using RPG a little as needed. Our environment changed, and the organization started using VB6 for the last eight years. We never had formalized training, just on the job. So, my understanding is not where I would like for it to be to start with the .NET certifications. However, based on Rudy's advice, I will have to start thinking like someone who has never seen code.
I am still considering what certification path to take. Rudy, it will probably be similar to yours. Your concerns sound just like mine. Will this be a good path for me? Am I making the correct transition? The .NET technology is very different than what I've been exposed to, and I don't want to shortcut my learning path. I have the time to learn and study. I want to be knowledgeable when sitting in my interviews. From your experience, it sounds like I can be successful again.
I thank you again for your personal advice!Friday, July 17, 2009 3:01 PM -
I was browsing for information on certifications when I started reading your conversation string. I want to thank The German and BonJoviFan (Rudy) for their candid sharing. I was laid off due to corporate downsizing. I have been applying for jobs in my area, but everything is requiring .NET. I worked with Visual Basic 6 (VB6), and thought this would qualify me for job opportunities. I found out VB6 is NOT the same as VB.NET. I was very discouraged.
I was a COBOL programmer for 25 years, also using RPG a little as needed. The environment changed, and the organization started using VB6 for the last eight years. There was never any formalized training, just on the job, using code that one or two members of our group had written. So, my understanding is not where I would like for it to be to start with the .NET certifications. However, based on Rudy's advice, I will have to start thinking like someone who has never seen code.
I am still considering what certification path to take. Rudy, it will probably be similar to yours. Your concerns sound just like mine. Will this be a good path for me? Am I making the correct transition? The .NET technology is very different than what I've been exposed to, and I don't want to shortcut my learning path. I have the time to learn and study. I want to be knowlegeable when sitting in my interviews. From your experience, it sounds like I can be successful again.
I thank your again for your personal advice!
By the way, German, I had no idea English was your second language either. You expressed yourself very eloquently.Friday, July 17, 2009 3:28 PM -
i am new to mcts certification..
and about to finished my training and review for 70-536 & 70-528
my concern is: how many questions are there in the exams and its passing score ?
thank you in advance for your kind help...
cheers :DTuesday, August 25, 2009 4:20 PM -
did you get your certification (MCTS)?
if so, how long did it take?
ThanksThursday, February 4, 2010 3:27 PM -
I see further down that you did pass, and did very well, congratulations!
I too would be interested to know the study approach you took...and if you have met your goal and landed a new position, hopefully so...nice job!Thursday, February 4, 2010 3:36 PM -
Hey Guy.
So, I think you need to stop thinking in this way. Sure score is important, but if you get 700s you are certified. Score does not appear on the certificate and the Company that you will work does not know how much you got on the test. So do not worry about score, you need study as much as you can, and when you feel prepared, do the test, and of course, you will pass.
I hope I helped you.
Thank you.
Adriano Atanes
DRM Serviços de Consultoria S/A
Analyst / DeveloperFriday, February 5, 2010 2:14 PM -
Hey Johnjl
So, the score is 700s to get certified.
Microsoft says for those who does the test, do not give any information about it. So if you want to know about it, go to internet (bing and so on) and you will find your answer.
I hope I helped you
Thank you.
Adriano Atanes
Analyst / DeveloperFriday, February 5, 2010 2:22 PM -
sir i too completed my 70-536 exams but am bit confused what to do next?
which exams i should complete if i wanna complete my mcpd;
and will i get a certificate for passing 70-536 exams?
Monday, March 29, 2010 6:28 AM -
sir i too completed my 70-536 exams but am bit confused what to do next?
which exams i should complete if i wanna complete my mcpd;
and will i get a certificate for passing 70-536 exams?
The next exam you take depends on your platform and Visual Studio version so check below and choose your exams if you are taking exams for Web/Asp.net exams post again and I will post the relevant threads you can use to study.http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcpd.aspx#tab2
MCPD Web C#, MCTS TFS, MCITP BI and DBASaturday, April 3, 2010 12:03 AM -
Rudy,
I saw your post and like you I am also a AS/400 RPG programmer moving to .Net. Can you tell me more about you effort and what course you need to take and possibly what school you went to. If possible contact me at joseph.a.maldonado@live.com
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:25 PM -
Hi,
I have started a blog which gives free tutorials on cracking MCTS Exam.
My idea is to provide concept details to individuals who actually need it.
If you are one of them, then visit my blog.
http://mctsexam70-536tutorials.blogspot.com/
I have just started adding content to my blog, but soon you will find detailed explanation on all topics.
See you there
Sam
Friday, June 18, 2010 7:27 PM -
Hi,
I have started a blog which gives free tutorials on cracking MCTS Exam.
My idea is to provide concept details to individuals who actually need it.
If you are one of them, then visit my blog.
http://mctsexam70-536tutorials.blogspot.com/
I have just started adding content to my blog, but soon you will find detailed explanation on all topics.
See you there
Sam
Friday, June 18, 2010 7:46 PM