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replacing old (polluted) wsus RRS feed

  • Question

  • hi,

    I got 2 wsus servers running for a while.

    Clean up wizard crashes on both. I tried to decline superseded updates but cannot gain any space on D: (WSUS updates) partition.

    Then I just decliened everything until year 2013. All images for Desktops were recreated in January 2014 so nothing to loose.

    And I still did not get any space on D:. It continue to grow with addition of new updates

    Questions:

    1. Should declined (previously approved) updates be DELETED from the disk?

    2.  Does the following idea make sense?

    I have an idea just to reinstall clean WSUS server on 2012, keep the same name and IP.

    It should transparently for the clients replace old one.

    With this I will stop waisting time on troubleshooting. Will download the updates from the latest year (to be decided).

    At least bunch of XP updates will not take place on WSUS (XP is not deployed anymore).

    Thx.


    "When you hit a wrong note it's the next note that makes it good or bad". Miles Davis


    • Edited by pob579 Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:33 AM typo
    Monday, July 21, 2014 2:58 PM

Answers

  • not what "crash" you see, I saw server timeouts with clean up wizard in the past. you can give the powershell commands a try to see what part actually fails: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh826162.aspx

    We **KNOW** what is failing here.

    The ASP.NET WEBSERVICE has a hard-coded timeout waiting for a response from the stored procedure in SQL Server. In certain environments, the SQL Server stored procedure for "Delete unneeded updates..." fails to respond to the ASP.NET WEBSERVICE within the expected time frame, so the ASP.NET WEBSERVICE *aborts* the task.

    Exactly the same thing will happen if you call the API from PowerShell as when you call it from the console, so PowerShell won't make a whit of difference here.

    Theoretically calling the Stored Proc directly from SSMS could be used to avoid the ASP.NET timeout issue, but messing with the database directly is an "unsupported" scenario, and I've not delved into the schema in sufficient detail to comment on what would be required to "simulate" the API call for "Delete (ALL) unneeded updates..."

    The simple solution is to just relaunch the Server Cleanup Wizard, as necessary, until the task successfully completes.


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCSA, MCITP:EA, MCDBA
    SolarWinds Head Geek
    Microsoft MVP - Software Packaging, Deployment & Servicing (2005-2014)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/mvp/Lawrence%20R%20Garvin-32101
    http://www.solarwinds.com/gotmicrosoft
    The views expressed on this post are mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of SolarWinds.

    • Marked as answer by pob579 Wednesday, July 23, 2014 2:03 AM
    Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:53 PM
  • Hi,

    The files will be deleted during the cleanup wizard if you declined the update.

    Using the Server Cleanup Wizard

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc708578(v=ws.10).aspx

    Addition consideration about your idea is that you need do some cleaning before using the same IP and computer name. Such as domain computer account, DNS records. Or you can use a different IP and computer name, and change your GPO after installation.

    Hope this helps.

    • Marked as answer by pob579 Wednesday, July 23, 2014 2:01 AM
    Tuesday, July 22, 2014 3:00 AM
  • 1. Should declined (previously approved) updates be DELETED from the disk?

    By the Server Cleanup Wizard, if the updates are now declined, and previously approved, yes.

    2. Does the following idea make sense?

    I have an idea just to reinstall clean WSUS server on 2012, keep the same name and IP.

    It should transparently for the clients replace old one.

    With this I will stop waisting time on troubleshooting. Will download the updates from the latest year (to be decided).

    At least bunch of XP updates will not take place on WSUS (XP is not deployed anymore).

    Installing a FRESH WSUS server is always a valid option to replacing a BROKEN WSUS Server.... provided that you properly install the new WSUS server.

    If you simply keep doing the things that "broke" the original WSUS server, then you won't really accomplish much at all except waste a bunch more time creating another broken WSUS server.


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCSA, MCITP:EA, MCDBA
    SolarWinds Head Geek
    Microsoft MVP - Software Packaging, Deployment & Servicing (2005-2014)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/mvp/Lawrence%20R%20Garvin-32101
    http://www.solarwinds.com/gotmicrosoft
    The views expressed on this post are mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of SolarWinds.

    • Marked as answer by pob579 Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:08 PM
    Tuesday, July 22, 2014 3:10 AM
  • not what "crash" you see, I saw server timeouts with clean up wizard in the past. you can give the powershell commands a try to see what part actually fails: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh826162.aspx
    • Marked as answer by pob579 Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:08 PM
    Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:00 AM

All replies

  • Hi,

    The files will be deleted during the cleanup wizard if you declined the update.

    Using the Server Cleanup Wizard

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc708578(v=ws.10).aspx

    Addition consideration about your idea is that you need do some cleaning before using the same IP and computer name. Such as domain computer account, DNS records. Or you can use a different IP and computer name, and change your GPO after installation.

    Hope this helps.

    • Marked as answer by pob579 Wednesday, July 23, 2014 2:01 AM
    Tuesday, July 22, 2014 3:00 AM
  • 1. Should declined (previously approved) updates be DELETED from the disk?

    By the Server Cleanup Wizard, if the updates are now declined, and previously approved, yes.

    2. Does the following idea make sense?

    I have an idea just to reinstall clean WSUS server on 2012, keep the same name and IP.

    It should transparently for the clients replace old one.

    With this I will stop waisting time on troubleshooting. Will download the updates from the latest year (to be decided).

    At least bunch of XP updates will not take place on WSUS (XP is not deployed anymore).

    Installing a FRESH WSUS server is always a valid option to replacing a BROKEN WSUS Server.... provided that you properly install the new WSUS server.

    If you simply keep doing the things that "broke" the original WSUS server, then you won't really accomplish much at all except waste a bunch more time creating another broken WSUS server.


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCSA, MCITP:EA, MCDBA
    SolarWinds Head Geek
    Microsoft MVP - Software Packaging, Deployment & Servicing (2005-2014)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/mvp/Lawrence%20R%20Garvin-32101
    http://www.solarwinds.com/gotmicrosoft
    The views expressed on this post are mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of SolarWinds.

    • Marked as answer by pob579 Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:08 PM
    Tuesday, July 22, 2014 3:10 AM
  • Lawrence,

    is there a potential problem when upstream server is 2008 and added downstream 2012?


    "When you hit a wrong note it's the next note that makes it good or bad". Miles Davis


    • Edited by pob579 Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:44 AM
    Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:52 AM
  • not what "crash" you see, I saw server timeouts with clean up wizard in the past. you can give the powershell commands a try to see what part actually fails: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh826162.aspx
    • Marked as answer by pob579 Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:08 PM
    Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:00 AM
  • I will try. Thanks.

    "When you hit a wrong note it's the next note that makes it good or bad". Miles Davis

    Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:08 PM
  • is there a potential problem when upstream server is 2008 and added downstream 2012?

    This is a gray area....

    From a practical perspective, no. The metadata that transports from MU, through an USS, to a DSS, is identical regardless of the version of WSUS hosting the data.

    However.......

    I'm told by the WSUS Product Group that synchronizing a WSUS v6.x server from a WSUS v3.x server is a "not supported" scenario.... so keep that in mind.

    If the nature of the synchronization is transient (e.g. a server migration from WS2008(r2) to WS2012(r2)), then I wouldn't worry about it at all.

    If the nature of the synchronization is long-term.... I'd have to agree with the principle that you should upgrade the USS to WS2012(r2) before the downstream servers, and aside from the question of WSUS supportability, you might well consider why you're upgrading downstream servers before upstream servers. :-)


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCSA, MCITP:EA, MCDBA
    SolarWinds Head Geek
    Microsoft MVP - Software Packaging, Deployment & Servicing (2005-2014)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/mvp/Lawrence%20R%20Garvin-32101
    http://www.solarwinds.com/gotmicrosoft
    The views expressed on this post are mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of SolarWinds.

    Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:50 PM
  • not what "crash" you see, I saw server timeouts with clean up wizard in the past. you can give the powershell commands a try to see what part actually fails: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh826162.aspx

    We **KNOW** what is failing here.

    The ASP.NET WEBSERVICE has a hard-coded timeout waiting for a response from the stored procedure in SQL Server. In certain environments, the SQL Server stored procedure for "Delete unneeded updates..." fails to respond to the ASP.NET WEBSERVICE within the expected time frame, so the ASP.NET WEBSERVICE *aborts* the task.

    Exactly the same thing will happen if you call the API from PowerShell as when you call it from the console, so PowerShell won't make a whit of difference here.

    Theoretically calling the Stored Proc directly from SSMS could be used to avoid the ASP.NET timeout issue, but messing with the database directly is an "unsupported" scenario, and I've not delved into the schema in sufficient detail to comment on what would be required to "simulate" the API call for "Delete (ALL) unneeded updates..."

    The simple solution is to just relaunch the Server Cleanup Wizard, as necessary, until the task successfully completes.


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCSA, MCITP:EA, MCDBA
    SolarWinds Head Geek
    Microsoft MVP - Software Packaging, Deployment & Servicing (2005-2014)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/mvp/Lawrence%20R%20Garvin-32101
    http://www.solarwinds.com/gotmicrosoft
    The views expressed on this post are mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of SolarWinds.

    • Marked as answer by pob579 Wednesday, July 23, 2014 2:03 AM
    Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:53 PM
  • Thanks to all for suggestions/opinions/knowledge.

    I would connect to Upstream server just once per month. We are getting XP updates for the next year (hope XP will be replaced sooner). And BTW got the info that Upstream was replaced by 2012. So no problem with that in case I will go to 2012 server for WSUS.

    And after all encouraging info here I will try to run multiple Clean ups. Will be interesting if current WSUS will become cleaner as expected.


    "When you hit a wrong note it's the next note that makes it good or bad". Miles Davis

    Wednesday, July 23, 2014 2:08 AM
  • Lawrence,

    This what I call crash (screenshot 2).

    Run clean up around 10 times. The same result. And free space doesn't change.

    7GB free from 90GB partition.

    Exactly the same story on the server with 30GB WSUS Data partition where 6 GB are free.

    Screensots are from French 2008. But I guess translation is not needed.

    I can understand that first (with 90GB partition) is really heavy. But why the small one (30GB) does the same.

    Practically not cleanable. Did somebody try to run Clean up on Server 2012 WSUS. Does it work flawlessly?


    "When you hit a wrong note it's the next note that makes it good or bad". Miles Davis

    Thursday, July 24, 2014 2:32 PM
  • This what I call crash (screenshot 2)

    What you (erroneously) CHOOSE to call a "crash", is what the rest of us know as an ASP.NET TIMEOUT.. which has been discussed in this forum so many times that frankly, I'm tired of talking about it.

    Basically you have two choices:

    You can reinstall the server and solve your "crash" problem.

    -OR-

    You can follow the guidance posted in this forum several dozen times over the past few years and perform the necessary maintenance on your server that you should have been performing for quite some time.

    Your choice. No matter to me. Call it what you want. It is what it is.


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCSA, MCITP:EA, MCDBA
    SolarWinds Head Geek
    Microsoft MVP - Software Packaging, Deployment & Servicing (2005-2014)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/mvp/Lawrence%20R%20Garvin-32101
    http://www.solarwinds.com/gotmicrosoft
    The views expressed on this post are mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of SolarWinds.

    Friday, July 25, 2014 3:05 AM
  • Lawrence,

    and last question from my previous post:

     "Did somebody try to run Clean up on Server 2012 WSUS. Does it work flawlessly?"

    I mean without "What ME (erroneously) CHOOSE to call a "crash", is what the rest of us know as an ASP.NET TIMEOUT.. "

    Thanks again.


    "When you hit a wrong note it's the next note that makes it good or bad". Miles Davis

    Friday, July 25, 2014 7:29 PM
  • and last question from my previous post:

     "Did somebody try to run Clean up on Server 2012 WSUS. Does it work flawlessly?"

    The issue has absolutely nothing to do with what version of WSUS or what version of Windows.

    The issue is caused, quite simply, because you have TOO MANY updates approved, or too many updates still present (from not having been previously deleted when they should have been), and now there's TOO MUCH WORK to be done in a single pass of the task, and it's going to take multiple passes to clean it up.

    "When you hit a wrong note it's the next note that makes it good or bad". Miles Davis

    I can't help but observe, somewhat ironically, that Miles' quote has a lot of relevance to this situation. :)


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCSA, MCITP:EA, MCDBA
    SolarWinds Head Geek
    Microsoft MVP - Software Packaging, Deployment & Servicing (2005-2014)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/mvp/Lawrence%20R%20Garvin-32101
    http://www.solarwinds.com/gotmicrosoft
    The views expressed on this post are mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of SolarWinds.

    Friday, July 25, 2014 10:33 PM
  • I always keep in mind what Miles said when improvise on sax.

    For WSUS my next impro will be

    1. changing WSUS to 2012

    2. changing server name in GPO to it

    3. doing what Lawrence said :) scheduled maintenance (of course based on logic)


    "When you hit a wrong note it's the next note that makes it good or bad". Miles Davis

    Saturday, July 26, 2014 2:31 AM