none
can not see netbios machines on network

    Question

  • The problem: Following power up some machines on my home network cannot "see" other machines.

    The issue seems to relate to network discovery method. Machines using WSD (ALIVE, JOHNF) can be seen first.
    Only machines using netBIOS can see all machines; However HPPavG6 is using NetBIOS and can only see the WSD machines.

    In contrast the Inteli5 machine can see all network machines, including itself. LANScanner identifies this as the master browser (it would have been the first to be powered on).

    All machines can ping each other, and all can browse the internet.

    Strangely, on odd occasions all machines become visible.

    Following a restart HPPavG6 is using WSD and ALIVE using NetBIOS!

    My home network using gigabit ethernet comprises as follows:

    Router; Huawei HG633 at 192.168.1.1

    Computer name  - OS - IP

    Inteli5 - W10 x64 15063.608 - 192.168.1.3
    ALIVE - W10 x64 16288.1 - 192.168.1.4
    COMPAQ - Linux Mint 18 -
    192.168.1.5
    HPPavG6 - W10 x64 15063.608 - 192.168.1.7
    JohnF - W10 32bit 192.168.1.12

    HPLaserjet4050N network printer - 192.168.1.22
    data logger (Arduino) -
    192.168.1.29

    Three other laptops running various OS, and communicationg via wi-fi. These are not all powered on at the same time.


    john errington


    Tuesday, September 19, 2017 5:59 AM

Answers

  • Work around!! "Advanced Port Scanner" - Newest version... Scan your computers range.. Set, Set View - Show Alive.. Expand all.. Bingo!! All computers are displayed just like/what you want, plus bonuses.(with ports).. A little slow for videos and long file transfers, but it works very well.. I was tired of all the BS of handling net bios and wsd...

    Throcky.. Throcky@gmail.com ..

      
    Wednesday, May 2, 2018 4:00 PM

All replies

  • I have seen many posts with similar issues posted on these forums. No one 'fix' I  have seen. Can only suggest hopefully the next update will do better with discovering devices.
    Thursday, September 21, 2017 10:44 PM
  • The Computer Browser service is broken in Windows 10 1703 and is gone from future releases of Windows.

    Yes, that's right folks, after 25 years of being able to browse our networks Microsoft have decided Workgroup users don't need this functionality any more.  This article from Microsoft explains:

    SMBv1 is not installed by default in Windows 10 Fall Creators Update 2017 and Windows Server, Semi-annual Channel

    They are getting rid of SMB v1.0, which is fair enough, it has real security issues.  The Computer Browser service relies on SMB v1.0, rather than upgrade the Computer Browser service so Workgroup users are still able to browse their networks they are simply removing it.  From the linked article:

    For home and small business users who use Network Neighborhood to locate Windows computers, you shoud map drives to the computers so that you no longer have to browse for them.

    Not even spell checked and suggesting we only do it to access data we could map drives to, indicating a total lack of understanding as to why we need network browsing.  Network browsing is an essential tool for doing a visual check of which computing resources are available in a Workgroup.  The command "net view" allows us to quickly report which computers are available in the Workgroup and thereby use the information to run system reports and perform various tasks.  Locating and enabling printers becomes far more difficult without Computer Browsing.

    This does not affect AD users, those businesses which need to or have the luxury of being able to invest in server hardware and software.  Users who's data is in the cloud, on the internet have less issue, it may only affect attaching printer resources which can be worked around.  Of course all Microsoft staff fit into these groups so the lack of browsing functionality in Workgroups is probably insignificant to them.

    So what we need now is either a great little tool to browse our networks that doesn't rely on SMB 1.0 or an upgraded Computer Browser service.

    The service is broken in Windows 10 Creators 1703. If a 1703 PC is the Master Browser only that computer has Computer Browsing, if a non-1703 is the Master Browser all the non-1703 PCs have Computer Browsing.  This is the reason why browsing appears to work sometimes and not others, rebooting PCs forces a Master Browser election, which will change which PC is the Master Browser and can introduce the issue.

    To work around the issue involves setting one computer to be the Master Browser.  Some people have third party devices on their network they can set to be the Master Browser, all non-1703 can browse.  To identify which computer is the Master Browser you can run the command 

    nbtstat -a ComputerName

    for each computer in the Workgroup.  The computer that is the Master Browser is the only one that has the value

    __MSBROWSE__

    in the list.

    To set which computer is the Master Browser you need to make registry modifications on that computer.  Browse to the registry key:

    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Browser\Parameters

    Change the value of MaintainServerList from Auto to Yes

    If it is not there, add a new String Value IsDomainMaster and set it to True

    You may need to reboot to activate this.  If you want to be absolutely positive no other PC takes the Master Browser role you can set the value of MaintainServerList from Auto to No on all other PCs in the Workgroup.  You may even find that a non Microsoft third party device on the network attempts to take over the Master Browser role.

    I re-iterate that this is just a short term workaround, Computer Browsing for workgroups is history for Windows 10.  If you know of any great tools for browsing Workgroups that don't rely on the older protocols I'd be happy to hear from you.

    • Proposed as answer by NoneAndOne Friday, September 22, 2017 12:51 AM
    Friday, September 22, 2017 12:50 AM
  • You are right NoneAndOne - "Network browsing is an essential tool .."

    however your reply does make some sense of what is happening. However it doesn't explain why

    1: network browsing shows NetBIOS AND WSD

    2: why some windows 10 machines use NetBIOS and some use WSD

    Your suggestion to set one machine as master browser - what happens if that machine is not turned on?

    "The service is broken in Windows 10 Creators 1703. If a 1703 PC is the Master Browser only that computer has Computer Browsing, if a non-1703 is the Master Browser all the non-1703 PCs have Computer Browsing.  This is the reason why browsing appears to work sometimes and not others, rebooting PCs forces a Master Browser election, which will change which PC is the Master Browser and can introduce the issue."

    Does explain why my network behaves differently - clearly depends on the order in which PC's are turned on.

    This leaves me with more questions than answers.

    Thanks



    john errington

    Friday, September 22, 2017 6:15 AM
  • You are right, setting a single PC to be master browser is not ideal and should not be necessary, no registry editing should be required to have your Workgroup working how you want.  If you do figure out something new please post it, I'm keen to hear.
    Friday, September 22, 2017 6:49 AM
  • 2: why some windows 10 machines use NetBIOS and some use WSD

    Is that a difference between IPv4 and IPv6 addressing?   BTW is anyone using  LMHOSTS  instead?   <eg>



    Robert Aldwinckle
    ---

    Friday, September 22, 2017 12:25 PM
  • One of the main reasons MS decided to abandon NetBIOS is because it  does not support IPv6. But there really should have been a replacement put into place before abandoning it.

    For me the network discovery is inconsistent. I need a master browser because I have NAS devices and UNIX boxes using Samba. Homegroups are useless and Function Discovery works when it feels like it.

    This is a real problem for Windows 10 users and MS should see that. If someone were to come up with a third party solution, I would buy it.

    Tuesday, February 27, 2018 7:58 PM
  • Work around!! "Advanced Port Scanner" - Newest version... Scan your computers range.. Set, Set View - Show Alive.. Expand all.. Bingo!! All computers are displayed just like/what you want, plus bonuses.(with ports).. A little slow for videos and long file transfers, but it works very well.. I was tired of all the BS of handling net bios and wsd...

    Throcky.. Throcky@gmail.com ..

      
    Wednesday, May 2, 2018 4:00 PM
  • Thanks Throcky, a work-around should not be necessary;

    however that is a great piece of software - and its PORTABLE!

    Its not just showing the computers on the network, but also the router, network printer and various other devices; and even what folders are shared. This is going on my desktops as my default strategy to access the network.

    If its as easy as this - why didnt microsoft do it???


    john errington

    Thursday, May 3, 2018 5:38 AM
  • Mr Happy, hello.  Been a long time.  After the recent spring update I also have problems seeing all my machines. My insider machine that I just recently decided to become an Insider again shows all my devices on the network, but my main machine only sees it's self and My mapped linux file server.  I don't really want to use a program that's not MS, but I sure would like to be able to communicate with wife's machine, and my other 2 machines. Is there any related tricks that your aware of to ferret out this problem?

    Slow Joe (dave)



    • Edited by Slow Joe Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:21 AM
    Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:21 AM
  • Joe, I've been fighting with this issue since I first installed w10 and its still no better. The order the machines are turned on seems to be one factor.  Microsoft has junked Samba 2 because of security issues. Basically, Windows networking is now broken.

    https://serverfault.com/questions/895570/how-to-configure-samba-to-work-with-windows-10-1709

    Try  Advanced Port Scanner and you will see why I have accepted that as a solution. 

    You should also be aware that each Windows update changes your network sharing settings without asking!


    john errington

    Monday, May 7, 2018 6:52 AM
  • Yes John, that really peeves me off.  Seem to be getting worse of late. I couldn't believe on the 1803 update they had the gall to place Edge on my desktop without my consent. If I wanted Edge on my desktop, I'd of placed it there myself.  It already is on my taskbar, give me a break. Of course why not if they can change other settings without permission.  I'm still finding things that are different or changed after the update.  I'm not sure how that program "Advanced Port Scanner" is supposed to work. Have not really sit down and played with it, but couldn't figure it out in the small amount of time I looked at it.  If some one has a readers digest version on what it does, please feel free to post.  :-)

    Well did a little more studying on the Port scanner software , works pretty good, but still can't get into my wife's machine, and it is set up the same as all my other machines. I'll keep digging away at it.. at least I can now login to my other 3 machines.

    wish MS would create a program like this.

    Slow Joe (dave)








    • Edited by Slow Joe Tuesday, May 8, 2018 12:40 AM
    • Proposed as answer by 3KevinG Tuesday, September 4, 2018 2:22 AM
    • Unproposed as answer by 3KevinG Tuesday, September 4, 2018 2:23 AM
    Tuesday, May 8, 2018 12:20 AM
  • I just had 4 win 10 machines with absolutely identical  seeming settings showing 3 different versions of my network in their "neighborhoods"

    Only one was coming up as WSD, the rest (on the one laptop that could see them all) showed Netbios for the rest.

    It was as if Netbios had just up and left the building, even though it was seemingly turned on.

    Everybody else has explained their issues so I'm just going to cut to the chase, this is what started to bring things back around.

    1) TURN OFF the Defender Firewall (public and Private)

    2) Turn it back on....Holy Shit! All the computers just reappeared everywhere!

    To get them off of Netbios I went to services and turned off the computer browser service, then turned on the   Function Resource Discovery Publication service and made it automatic.

    It's not perfect yet, I have one laptop not reporting it's IP address, it just says "1"

    Two machines are giving me a V6 IP address and one is giving me an actual V4 address 

    That stuff is childs play considering the beating it just handed me to make them show at all

    I hope this helps somebody, and if I just exposed myself to some exploit, someone please let me know :)

    Tuesday, September 4, 2018 2:36 AM
  • Hi 3KevinG sadly my home office network is down until early November due to major redecoration - floor up.

    I'll try your solution when I can.

    Until then another update - the Advanced Port Scanner solution allows me to access other machines files etc; however they still don't show in the "network" so I cant easily do synchronisation etc.

    If anyone knows of a "Microsoft" solution to access a mixed network - W7, W10 various versions, Linux & Ubuntu I'd be delighted to learn about it.


    john

    Friday, September 7, 2018 4:08 PM