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How do I format my HDD to Advanced Format/512E to use 512K blocks with Windows Backup?

    Question

  • I'm running Windows 7 Pro 64-bit. When running Windows Backup onto an external 4TB Touro HDD (2TB partition), I receive the error:

    The last backup did not complete successfully. One of the backup files could not be created. Details: The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error.

    Error code: 0x8078002A

    The cause was given on a forum as:

    "The "root cause" is that Windows 7 (and its system tools) does not support a 4K native block size. As a workaround the disk can be formatted with "Advanced Format"/512E to use 512K blocks."

    It was suggested I try WD Quick Formatter, but this only works with WD HDDs.

    How do I format my HDD to "Advanced Format"/512E to use 512K blocks, so I can use Windows Backup with it?

    Sunday, March 1, 2015 8:16 AM

All replies

  • SRD

    I/O device error is probably not related to block size.  It is much more likely to be a HD issue.  YOu can determine if this is the case by looking in your event viewer logs

    Generally speaking you should not have to change sector size for anything.

    Please provide us with your Event Viewer administrative logs by following these steps:


    Click Start Menu
    Type eventvwr into Search programs and files (do not hit enter)
    Right click eventvwr.exe and click Run as administrator
    Expand Custom Views
    Click Administrative Events
    Right click Administrative Events
    Save all Events in Custom View As...
    Save them in a folder where you will remember which folder and save as Errors.evtx
    Go to where you saved Errors.evtx
    Right click Errors.evtx -> send to -> compressed (zipped) folder
    Upload the .zip file to Onedrive or a file sharing service and put a link to it in your next post
    *
    If you have updated to win 8.1 and you get the error message "the system cannot find the file specified" it is a known problem.  The work around is to edit the registry.  If you are not comfortable doing this DONT.  If you are, backup the key before you do
    Press Win+"R" and input regedit

    Navigate to:
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WINEVT\Channels. Delete "Microsoft-Windows-DxpTaskRingtone/Analytic"


    Wanikiya and Dyami--Team Zigzag

    Sunday, March 1, 2015 11:09 AM
    Moderator
  • This is a known problem with Windows backup. See

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2510009
    If you are using a logical sector drive of a size other than 512 bytes, Windows system image backup and restore operations may fail, and you receive the following error message:

    One of the backup files could not be created.
    Details: The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error.

    Error code: 0x8078002A

    It looks as if WD is the only vendor to supply a tool that will change the logical sector size on an external drive.

    Things you could try:
    - an enclosure connected by eSata and hope that the sata controller provides the emulation.
    - upgrade to windows 8.1. (supposedly supports 4K native with Windows backup - see
    https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh848035(v=vs.85).aspx)
    - or (if possible) find another backup program that does support 4K native drives on Windows 7.
    • Edited by mystifeid Sunday, March 1, 2015 11:38 AM
    Sunday, March 1, 2015 11:30 AM
  • How many people are using Windows 7?

    What proportion of these people are using HDD with logical sector size other than 512 bytes?

    Sunday, March 1, 2015 12:37 PM
  • You must contact the manufacturer of the drive.  Windows format cannot do a low level format or any low level function to any hard drive.

    Windows 7 does indeed support the 4k native block.  All the drives in my Windows 7 system are "Advanced Format" and have been since they were readily available.  Microsoft even published an update for Windows XP to accommodate the "Advanced Format" HDD!

    Is your HDD GPT or is it MBR?  If it an MBR drive that may be the problem instead of the 4k block size.


    • Edited by R T F M Sunday, March 1, 2015 12:40 PM
    Sunday, March 1, 2015 12:39 PM
  • Here is a link to the events: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nsg945wbafgu3rh/Errors.zip?dl=0

    I tried Windows Backup again and received error 0x80780020

    I restarted the Shadow Volume Copy service & Windows Backup service.

    I tried Windows Backup again and received error 0x81000101

    Turn off System Protection for C:. It was not active for any other drives.

    I tried Windows Backup again and received error 0x8078002A.


    Sunday, March 1, 2015 12:44 PM
  • How do I tell if it is GPT or MBR?
    Sunday, March 1, 2015 12:49 PM
  • SRD

    Start>run>msinfo32>if it is MBR it will say legacy system (see snip)


    Wanikiya and Dyami--Team Zigzag

    Sunday, March 1, 2015 1:07 PM
    Moderator
  • Thanks. In msinfo32, there is no entry for BIOS Mode.  The only items relating to BIOS are:

    BIOS Version/Date LENOVO FBKT99AUS, 19/09/2014
    SMBIOS Version 2.8

    Sunday, March 1, 2015 1:18 PM
  • SRD

    Google is your friend

    http://thpc.info/how/gpt_or_mbr.html  Works in win 7

    OR

    Right click the drive 0 volume>properties>volumes


    Wanikiya and Dyami--Team Zigzag


    Sunday, March 1, 2015 1:23 PM
    Moderator
  • It's MBR.
    Sunday, March 1, 2015 1:26 PM
  • It would be interesting to have anyone (eg RTFM) who is running a 4K drive in Windows 7 to report the results of (change drive letter as appropriate):

    fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo c:

    A 4K native drive should include in the output

    Bytes Per Sector:            4096

    A 4K/512e drive should return

    Bytes Per Sector:            512

    By Microsoft's own admission, 4K native drives were not fully supported until the advent of Windows 8. According to the link above, Windows 8...
    Builds upon the Windows 7 SP1 support for 4K disks with emulation (512e), and provides full inbox support for disks with 4K sector size without emulation (4K Native). Some supported apps and scenarios include:

    - Ability to install Windows to and boot from a 4K sector disk without emulation (4K Native Disk)
    - VHD and new VHDX file format
    - Full HyperV support
    - Windows backup
    - Full support in the NT file system (NTFS)
    - Full support with new Storage Spaces and Pools (SSP)
    - Full support with Windows Defender

    SRD, from what I've read, if you can find a way to get Windows 7 backup working on a non-WD external drive with 4K logical sectors, then you could probably sell the answer.
    Sunday, March 1, 2015 2:20 PM
  • It's MBR.

    You need to change it to GPT to be able to use the full capacity of the HDD.

    • Edited by R T F M Sunday, March 1, 2015 7:53 PM
    Sunday, March 1, 2015 4:55 PM
  • How many people are using Windows 7?

    What proportion of these people are using HDD with logical sector size other than 512 bytes?


    Almost all computers and HDDs sold in the past 5 years are probably 4k sectors.  And "All hard drive manufacturers have committed to shipping new hard drive platforms for desktop and notebook products with the Advanced Format sector formatting by January 2011."
    Sunday, March 1, 2015 4:59 PM
  • Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
    Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

    C:\Windows\system32>fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo c:
    NTFS Volume Serial Number :       0x242afc902afc5fea
    Version :                         3.1
    Number Sectors :                  0x000000003a352fff
    Total Clusters :                  0x000000000746a5ff
    Free Clusters  :                  0x0000000005e48694
    Total Reserved :                  0x00000000000007f0
    Bytes Per Sector  :               512
    Bytes Per Physical Sector :       512
    Bytes Per Cluster :               4096
    Bytes Per FileRecord Segment    : 1024
    Clusters Per FileRecord Segment : 0
    Mft Valid Data Length :           0x000000000c3c0000
    Mft Start Lcn  :                  0x00000000000c0000
    Mft2 Start Lcn :                  0x0000000000000002
    Mft Zone Start :                  0x00000000000cc3c0
    Mft Zone End   :                  0x00000000000cc820
    RM Identifier:        16D85EDA-ACBE-11E4-A5A3-A05A914FC676

    C:\Windows\system32>fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo d:
    NTFS Volume Serial Number :       0x42f230acf230a657
    Version :                         3.1
    Number Sectors :                  0x000000003a344fff
    Total Clusters :                  0x00000000074689ff
    Free Clusters  :                  0x0000000004cd1d59
    Total Reserved :                  0x00000000000004f0
    Bytes Per Sector  :               512
    Bytes Per Physical Sector :       512
    Bytes Per Cluster :               4096
    Bytes Per FileRecord Segment    : 1024
    Clusters Per FileRecord Segment : 0
    Mft Valid Data Length :           0x000000000d680000
    Mft Start Lcn  :                  0x00000000000c0000
    Mft2 Start Lcn :                  0x0000000003d33dff
    Mft Zone Start :                  0x00000000000cd680
    Mft Zone End   :                  0x00000000000d0a80
    RM Identifier:        ECA1E0C8-16BA-11E2-9D34-BC5FF45A168E

    C:\Windows\system32>fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo g:
    NTFS Volume Serial Number :       0x3c2a8ca32a8c5c30
    Version :                         3.1
    Number Sectors :                  0x00000000e8dc7fff
    Total Clusters :                  0x000000001d1b8fff
    Free Clusters  :                  0x0000000011a7dc88
    Total Reserved :                  0x0000000000002180
    Bytes Per Sector  :               512
    Bytes Per Physical Sector :       4096
    Bytes Per Cluster :               4096
    Bytes Per FileRecord Segment    : 1024
    Clusters Per FileRecord Segment : 0
    Mft Valid Data Length :           0x0000000002780000
    Mft Start Lcn  :                  0x00000000000c0000
    Mft2 Start Lcn :                  0x0000000000000002
    Mft Zone Start :                  0x00000000000c0e40
    Mft Zone End   :                  0x00000000000cc840
    RM Identifier:        9E8A90E7-BF88-11E4-B26E-BC5FF45A168E

    C:\Windows\system32>
    Sunday, March 1, 2015 5:05 PM
  • c: drive -> 512n

    d: drive -> 512n

    g: drive -> 512e
    All the drives in my Windows 7 system are "Advanced Format"...

    Actually only one of them is reported as a 4k/512e drive -  4k physical sector size that is presented to the OS with a 512 byte logical sector size.

    None of them is reported as a 4k native drive (4K physical and 4k logical sector size).

    You may find some advantage in reading about

    - logical and physical sector size
    - 512n, 512e and 4kn drives
    You need to change it to GPT to be able to use the full capacity of the HDD

    Using 32-bit logical block addressing (LBA) what would happen to the maximum size of an MBR disk if the logical blocks were 8 times bigger than anything you had used before?

    The manufacturer is using MBR for this 4TB (4kn) drive for compatibility with older OS (read XP) but the logical sector size creates a problem for programs that rely on a 512 byte logical sector size.

    Like Windows 7 backup.
    • Edited by mystifeid Sunday, March 1, 2015 10:58 PM
    Sunday, March 1, 2015 10:38 PM
  • Drive C: is a SSD and I never even thought about its format.

    Drive D: is a WD 500GB Black and WD advertises it as Advanced Format

    Drive G: is a Seagate 2TB and Seagate advertises it as Advanced Format.

    Thanks for your expert assessment of my hardware.  I will be sure to let WD and Seagate they are guilty of false advertising based on your expert opinion.

    You may be a bit uninformed though.  Read Transition to Advanced Format 4K Sector Hard Drives   I have more faith in what a major manufacturer states than what you state:

    "Western Digital began shipping an Advanced Format drive in December of 2009, and Seagate has been shipping large sector drives for some time to OEM customers and in branded retail products..."

    "Bytes Per Physical Sector", which can be one of the following:

    512 - for Legacy 512 native drives
    4096 - for Advanced Format (AF) drives

    If it shows that your sector size as 4k bytes then you are good to go, but there is a concept of "512-Byte Sector Emulation" that fools the OS into believing the sectors size is still 512 bytes (to prevent compatibility issues).

    And according to Disk Alignment Test my drives are Advanced Format.  So another reason not to rely on your expert assessment of my hardware!!!

    • Edited by R T F M Sunday, March 1, 2015 11:15 PM
    Sunday, March 1, 2015 10:59 PM
  • It is not my assessment. You have provided your Windows assessment above.

    Your drives may or may not be able to misrepresent their physical sector size to Windows. And it really is immaterial whether this is possible.

    But all them are using a 512 byte logical sector size - whether native or emulated.

    The OP's drive is using a 4096 byte logical sector size.

    Please understand the problem. "Advanced format" is not equivalent to "4k native"
    • Edited by mystifeid Sunday, March 1, 2015 11:38 PM
    Sunday, March 1, 2015 11:35 PM
  • I'm lost.

    Is there anything I can do to get Windows Backup on Windows 7 to write to a 2TB partition on a 4TB MBR Touro HDD?

    Monday, March 2, 2015 7:31 AM
  • I'm lost.

    Is there anything I can do to get Windows Backup on Windows 7 to write to a 2TB partition on a 4TB MBR Touro HDD?


    Contact WD Technical Support for assistance.  WD used to have software for that and your solution will have to come from WD.

    • Edited by R T F M Monday, March 2, 2015 11:55 AM
    Monday, March 2, 2015 11:49 AM
  • It is not my assessment. You have provided your Windows assessment above.

    Your drives may or may not be able to misrepresent their physical sector size to Windows. And it really is immaterial whether this is possible.

    But all them are using a 512 byte logical sector size - whether native or emulated.

    The OP's drive is using a 4096 byte logical sector size.

    Please understand the problem. "Advanced format" is not equivalent to "4k native"

    Since you are the smartest person in the world and know more than anyone else in the world, including the hard drive manufacturers, there's no point in continuing any discussion with you.
    Monday, March 2, 2015 11:53 AM
  • I'm running Windows 7 Pro 64-bit. When running Windows Backup onto an external 4TB Touro HDD (2TB partition), I receive the error:

    The last backup did not complete successfully. One of the backup files could not be created. Details: The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error.

    Error code: 0x8078002A

    The cause was given on a forum as:

    "The "root cause" is that Windows 7 (and its system tools) does not support a 4K native block size. As a workaround the disk can be formatted with "Advanced Format"/512E to use 512K blocks."

    It was suggested I try WD Quick Formatter, but this only works with WD HDDs.

    How do I format my HDD to "Advanced Format"/512E to use 512K blocks, so I can use Windows Backup with it?

    Have you contact Western Digital about this problem?  They have sole responsibility for support of their products.  Have you checked the Western Digital FAQs for a possible solution?  Have you used the Western Digital Community Forums for possible assistance with this problem?

    Microsoft is not responsible for everything that doesn't work correctly with Windows and is not responsible for the support of any third party hardware or software!


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread. ”

    Monday, March 2, 2015 12:35 PM
  • How many people are using Windows 7?

    What proportion of these people are using HDD with logical sector size other than 512 bytes?


    Almost all computers and HDDs sold in the past 5 years are probably 4k sectors.  And "All hard drive manufacturers have committed to shipping new hard drive platforms for desktop and notebook products with the Advanced Format sector formatting by January 2011."
    Doesn't this mean Windows Backup on Windows 7 will fail to work with most modern hard drives?
    Monday, March 2, 2015 1:54 PM
  • I'm lost.

    Is there anything I can do to get Windows Backup on Windows 7 to write to a 2TB partition on a 4TB MBR Touro HDD?


    Contact WD Technical Support for assistance.  WD used to have software for that and your solution will have to come from WD.

    But I don't have a WD HDD. I have a Touro HDD as stated in the original post.
    Monday, March 2, 2015 1:55 PM
  • I'm running Windows 7 Pro 64-bit. When running Windows Backup onto an external 4TB Touro HDD (2TB partition), I receive the error:

    The last backup did not complete successfully. One of the backup files could not be created. Details: The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error.

    Error code: 0x8078002A

    The cause was given on a forum as:

    "The "root cause" is that Windows 7 (and its system tools) does not support a 4K native block size. As a workaround the disk can be formatted with "Advanced Format"/512E to use 512K blocks."

    It was suggested I try WD Quick Formatter, but this only works with WD HDDs.

    How do I format my HDD to "Advanced Format"/512E to use 512K blocks, so I can use Windows Backup with it?

    Have you contact Western Digital about this problem?  They have sole responsibility for support of their products.  Have you checked the Western Digital FAQs for a possible solution?  Have you used the Western Digital Community Forums for possible assistance with this problem?

    Microsoft is not responsible for everything that doesn't work correctly with Windows and is not responsible for the support of any third party hardware or software!


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread. ”

    As stated in the original post, I have a Touro HDD, not a WD HDD. They won't give a rat's arse about my problem.
    Monday, March 2, 2015 1:56 PM
  • There is nothing Windows can do because Windows does not do a low level format of any hard drive.

    Based on a Google search of the internet you have two choices to look for support:

    Touro Desk - Technical Support  or

    TOURO  

    Touro and/or HGST is going to be the only source of support for your problem.  Microsoft is not the source of support for this problem.

    Monday, March 2, 2015 5:03 PM
  • Doesn't this mean Windows Backup on Windows 7 will fail to work with most modern hard drives?

    No, because 4K native drives still seem to be pretty rare. The current Advanced Format drives provide 512 byte emulation for backward compatibilty with programs like Windows 7 backup.

    (Just did a very quick search and cannot easily find any Advanced Format/4kn drives. This is kind of surprising because if you have Windows 8 it sounds advantageous to get rid of the read-modify-write cycle and prevention used by Advanced Format/512e drives.)

    Anyway, found this thread:

    http://www.backupassist.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5503

    which has this gem:
    Here's what Hitachi said:

    The drive inside the Touro is a 512 byte/sector bare drive, and should in theory work with Windows 7 backup. The problem is that the actual enclosure is designed to report the drive as 4096 bytes if you query it, which makes it incompatible with the Windows 7 backup utility.

    The reason that the enclosure was designed to report as 4096 bytes is to allow Windows XP users the ability to connect a large (3TB) harddrive. In general Customers that have this issue are advised to use the Hitachi Backup software, and not to use the software built into the Windows 7 OS. This is not unique to Hitachi, WD and Seagate Customers also have the same issue...
    Monday, March 2, 2015 5:20 PM
  • @ RTFM,

     Your first post gave the impression that "Advanced Format" and "4Kn or 4K Native" disk were and meant the same thing. 

    You are mistaken

    A/F disk aka 512e work with W7 only w/patch and with w7 SP1 by default or out of the box.

    4Kn (non-emulating) format disk only work with w8/8.1 or higher by default. Microsoft stated since w7 was in extended support and EOL was 2020, there no plans for making it compatible with 4Kn disk.. That could change though, if it hasn't already.

    None-the-less, you're statement -

    [QUOTE]

    Windows 7 does indeed support the 4k native block.  All the drives in my Windows 7 system are "Advanced Format" and have been since they were readily available.  Microsoft even published an update for Windows XP to accommodate the "Advanced Format" HDD!

    Is your HDD GPT or is it MBR?  If it an MBR drive that may be the problem instead of the 4k block size."

    [END QUOTE]

    IS WRONG, Advanced Format aka 512e, emulates or shows 512 and 4096-4K sized blocks (to windows) as do non advanced format disk because 4096 is a multiple of 512 but, 4Kn disk only report 4096 size.

    512 aka 512n  -  all

    Advanced Format aka 512e  -  XP w/patch, W7 w/patch, W7 SP1 and higher by default

    4Kn aka 4K Native  - W8 and higher by default

    There are a couple of people that have come up with tricks or workarounds but, they are not supported by M/S

    .

    I didn't read every post in this thread. I immediately replied after reading your spouting off of wrong and misleading info, and then defending it so arrogantly. So, if somebody has already brought your "lack of proper info" to your attention, then I digress.

    "sic-em" mystifeid,

    michael clyde






    Friday, March 20, 2015 3:53 AM
  • @ mystifeid

    As to not finding any A/F and/or any 4Kn or Native drives, for Western Digital drives the key is in the 2nd of the last 4 letters at the end of the model name. WD1003FZEX (which have an index number of 3, 4, 5, 6 ie ... 1st letter is indexed as #3, 2nd letter as #4, 3rd as #5 and 4th as #6) WD did not start shipping 4Kn or 4K Native drives until 2014 and then only to Enterprise Customers (not to be confused with Enterprise class drives) which may have changed by now. This list is from the the current info @ WD but the pdf is dated from July, 2012. I don't have the link but the pdf is titled "Model Numbers - WD Internal Drives
    Model Number Format for OEM and Distribution Channels

    but the downloaded file itself has a name of "2579-001028"

    Below is the list of the corresponding 2nd of the last 4 letters in the model name indexed as #4 in the pdf file

    for my WD black caviar 1TB Advanced Format (512e) HDD

    WD  -  1003 - F Z  E  X

     1            2     3  5   6

     Business Unit/Brand
    A Desktop/WD Blue™; WD Green™; WD Black; WD Caviar ®
    B Enterprise/WD RE drive families (3-platter)
    D Enterprise/WD Raptor ®  
    E Mobile/WD Blue; WD Green; WD Black; WD Scorpio ®  
    F Desktop NAS/WD Red™
    H Enthusiast/WD VelociRaptor ®
    K Enterprise/WD XE; WD S25
    L Enterprise/WD VelociRaptor
    M Branded/WD Branded
    N Branded Advanced Format/WD Branded
    P Mobile Advanced Format/WD Blue; WD Green; WD Black;
    WD Scorpio
    R Enterprise Advanced Format/WD RE drive families
    U Audio/Video Advanced Format - WD AV
    V Audio/Video - WD AV
    W Enterprise Advanced Format/WD VelociRaptor
    Y Enterprise/WD RE drive families (4-platter)
    Z Desktop Advanced Format/WD Blue; WD Black; WD Green; WD Caviar

    The above is correct for the 2 recently bought drives, a 1TB Advanced Format Black Caviar and a 300GB VelociRaptor. Nowhere in the 1TB model name does it say "Advanced Format" (which could cost you) when buying from NewEgg because, if you couldn't use it for some reason there is a 15% restocking fee.

    michael clyde





    Friday, March 20, 2015 4:38 AM
  • To:

    michael_clyde vaginatarian in Redmond

    Do you ensure everything you eat has been certified as Kosher to avoid anything that might be spoiled or contaminated?

    Friday, March 20, 2015 11:46 AM
  • I know this is a elderly thread ;), but stumbled upon it in a search. I do not know about the WD Black, but I inquired with WD about Advanced Format 4KN drives when I was recently researching a new server build, as in the specs online WD does not seem to share this information.  Seagate however clearly states in their specs if a hdd is 512e, 512n or 4KN.

    WD support indicated concerning WD RE drives:

    Dear DONALD RESOR,

    Thank you for contacting Western Digital Customer Service and Support.  My name is Aura.

    We do apologize for the inconvenience and the delay in our response. Based on the details provided, you are having questions about the RE internal drive and the WD community.  

    Regarding the RE unfortunately the Advanced Format 4KN is not compatible and regarding the WD community try to open it in another web browser or try to refresh the website.

    If you have any further questions, please reply to this email and we will be happy to assist you further.

    Sincerely,
    Aura
    Western Digital Service and Support
    http://support.wdc.com
     


    • Edited by MonarkeIV Saturday, April 30, 2016 10:45 PM
    Saturday, April 30, 2016 10:43 PM