none
The Future of the NNTP Bridge on MSDN

    General discussion

  • One of the tools that are required for authentication for the NNTP Bridge was decommissioned on June 18th.  We were aware that the URL that was being decommissioned would affect Microsoft Community, we were not aware that the URL for the MSDN forums was also being decommissioned however.

    This resulted in the NNTP Bridge becoming unavailable to our customers without prior communication.  First and foremost I want to apologize for the lack of communication around this decommissioning; it was never our intention to make these changes without first alerting you, the community.

    The unfortunate result of this decommissioning is that the NNTP Bridge will no longer be accessible. Without an upgrade for this tool, the NNTP Bridge can no longer function.  We have investigated the amount of resources it would take to get the tool upgraded and it is simply too significant to undertake. Doing so would greatly affect our ability to support new features and improvements for MSDN.

    Why was this decision made?

    In the last month only 0.178% of our community members used the Bridge as part of their interactions here on MSDN. While we understand how useful the tool is to that .0178%, and how important those members are, based on this usage information we could not justify putting the amount of resources needed into maintaining the NNTP Bridge.

    I apologize again for the lack of forewarning, had we realized this was going to happen so soon we would have reached out to the community in a much more timely fashion.

    Thank you for your understanding.

    Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:03 PM

All replies

  • In the last month only 0.178% of our community members used the Bridge as part of their interactions here on MSDN. While we understand how useful the tool is to that .0178%, and how important those members are, based on this usage information we could not justify putting theamount of resources needed into maintaining the NNTP Bridge.

    Did you measure how many posts that come from the bridge? Did you measure how many of these that were marked as answers?

    Or were these numbers completely uninteresting to you?

    Besides you talk about maintaining the NNTP Bridge as if it was your component. It isn't. All you need to supply is the API/SDK so that Jochen can fix the NNTP Bridge.

    And I really hope that you can justify the amount resources needed to help Jochen.


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se
    Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:24 PM
  • I completely understand the frustration Erland, as I mentioned in my post we are very aware of how important the members who use the bridge are.  We understand how much support, posts, and answers come from the core community members that use the bridge.  The decision was not made lightly, nor is it one that brought us any joy.

    It was a very difficult decision to make.

    By the way, I apologize if I made it sound like the component is our component. I am aware that this tool was created by our community (Jochen and Kai specifically), and how much good it has done for the community as a whole.

    I understand Jochen has some ideas regarding a resolution to this issue, and we have been investigating.  However, to be clear, this is in no way a promise that anything can or will be changed.  If I receive any further information I would be more than willing to share.

    Thank you

    Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:55 PM
  • This really disappoints and hurts us!

    How could you discontinue the authentication component without an updated solution prepared?

    If the NNTP Bridge is no longer available to access, probably I would never participate in forums anymore. And I predict that you will lose most of the forum contributors.

    I swear I am not the only one who prefers NNTP Bridge rather than the web forum, no matter it is new design, old design or whatever.

    Don't emphasize that nonsense 0.178% survey data. I've never been asked to do such survey. Dare you do a new survey "Do you agree with our hard decision" in the public forum? Please, hear voices from the public!

    Forgive me about my agitated words. 

    Friday, June 21, 2013 12:27 AM
  • First, Jennifer, I have no idea what a "Community Engagment Manager" does, but judging from your posts, I assume it is a marketing-droid role. Beware that you are now in a companies of techies of which many are MVPs. That's not the kind of crowd where marketing-speak flies well.

    I asked whether you measured the usage of the bridge from more angles than the number of users. Since you don't answer that question, I take the answer as no.

    You say that the decision was not taken lightly. Well, for MSDN it seems that the decision was not taken at all - it just happened. Doug says that they had no idea that it would happen. So it seems that they were not even asked. And since MSDN did not even know about it, that begs the question what that number of 0.178% refers to? Answers Forum?

    It is very clear from the threads here, that you were not in contact with Jochen prior to closing the authentication. Was that "a very difficult decision to make" to not get in touch with him?

    I understand that you are not responsible for these decisions yourself, but you were only sent here to try cover other people's rear parts. The best I can make out of it is that you are talking about the Answers platform where they might have made more changes that precludes the use of the bridge at all. For the MSDN forums, the only problem is the authentication. (Well, at least it was the only problem last night when I could use the bridge because I had logged in before the change. Today, there is a new problem.) Then you can at least use the excuse that you don't know what you are talking about. Else, I am afraid that your level of credibility is low.





    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Friday, June 21, 2013 9:09 AM
  • >We have investigated the amount of resources it would take to get the tool upgraded and it is simply too significant to undertake.

    Surely all you have to do is tell Jochen what authentication method to use. How much resource is that going to take?

    >Doing so would greatly affect our ability to support new features and improvements for MSDN.

    Reading between the lines, this sort of implies that you really want to ensure that you put NNTP access to bed. So, how does one use this web interface in an efficient manner? Anything approaching the speed and efficiency at which I could use Forte Agent would be fine. Has anyone who works on the web forums ever used a newsreader application (properly - without a mouse)?

    Friday, June 21, 2013 9:39 AM
  • For example, I've just made a note of what I typically do (without thinking about it) when I read/reply to newsgroups when I use Forte Agent...

    Ctrl+H, Enter - gets all new headers, wait a few seconds for it to retrieve the updates.

    Press 'N' to view the next new message headers and unread messages in the threads I'm watching.
    Press 'W' if I want to watch (follow) a message thread.
    Press 'R' if I want to reply to a message, type the response, then press Ctrl+N to send the reply.

    .. back to press 'N' till all done.

    I can cover many groups (and forums using the bridge) this way. I never have to click obscure graphics/icons to expand things, or scroll around windows to see things.

    Make the web forums work that efficiently and then you can safely dispense with NNTP access.

    If it already does allow you to work that efficiently, please tell me how you do it.

    Friday, June 21, 2013 10:01 AM
  • The lack of consideration for people answering questions and supporting Microsoft's customers is appalling. For me, the web interface is horrific and each new iteration makes it harder to see trends in multiple threads and find common causality.

    An apology after the fact doesn't help at all.

    How does Microsoft measure usage? Sessions? Posts? Replies? Answers?

    Perhaps Microsoft will provide a different offline tool? NNTP gave me TEXT based with images.. Faster than the speed of light.

    This Brave New World may work well for people asking questions, but is an exceedingly poorly designed, not thought out interface for people providing support. IMO.


    Barb Bowman

    http://www.digitalmediaphile.com

    Friday, June 21, 2013 12:35 PM
  • @ Barb: After the UI update yesterday, i have thought about using the NNTP Bridge again. Now i see it is impossible right now.

    @ Erland: As a guess how it is meassured about the usage: take all registered users and then count the user which have in there setting the bridge enabled.


    Hannes

    If you have got questions about this, just ask.

    In a perfect world,
    users would never enter data in the wrong form,
    files they choose to open would always exist
    and code would never have bugs.

    My Forum Threads

    Friday, June 21, 2013 12:41 PM
  • Perhaps Microsoft will provide a different offline tool? NNTP gave me TEXT based with images.. Faster than the speed of light.


    NNTP readers are fast, but not quite that fast Barb. :)
    Friday, June 21, 2013 1:38 PM
  • In the last month only 0.178% of our community members used the Bridge as part of their interactions here on MSDN. While we understand how useful the tool is to that .0178%, and how important those members are, based on this usage information we could not justify putting the amount of resources needed into maintaining the NNTP Bridge.

    OK, the Bridge Users are very important, but not important enough for bring back NNTP Bridge. This is what i understand. I see the same statistic for the Answer Forums, there i asked how much Postings are the 0,178% Users are writen. But i got no answer. The only one point is 0,178%, the count of postings is much more. Can you provide more Statistic?


    Winfried

    Friday, June 21, 2013 2:42 PM
  • Even before the recent re-design of the forums, I was actually thinking about switching to the bridge. I wanted to see if it provided functionality anything like what I remember in the old newsgroups. Too bad it isn't an option now.

    I used to monitor about 12 newsgroups easily. When we switched to the forums I couldn't handle more than about 4 or 5. The reasons were related to some of the features we lost. From what I remember of the newsgroups:

    • There never were proformance issues. No matter how busy the servers or how heavy the internet traffic, I was unaffected. I could even function with no internet connection at all, and just synchronize later.
    • There was never a problem telling which threads were unread or had new replies.
    • I could mark threads as ones I was "watching". They would appear in red. Bold red meant there was new activity in a thread I was watching.
    • I could mark threads as ones I was not interested in. I never had to waste my time with them again.
    • The list of newsgroups I subscribed to would show the newsgroup name in bold red if there were any threads I was watching with new replies. The newsgroup name was bold black if there was new activity in any threads I had not marked to ignore.
    • I don't remember errors. At worst, I would have to wait to synchronize because I lost my internet connection.
    • It's been too long, so I don't remember what features we had in the editor. Since I used Outlook Express, I assume I could edit the HTML. I don't remember problems with pasting code in replies (like scroll bars or spacing and indenting being removed). I believe we could paste images.

    From the comments above I gather that most of these features were available in the bridge. With the forum re-design it is even more difficult to keep track of forum activity. And it will be more difficult to moderate. Too bad the bridge is no longer available.


    Richard Mueller - MVP Directory Services

    Friday, June 21, 2013 3:03 PM
    Moderator
  • Thank you for your understanding.

    Do you ever take into account the huge amount of negative feedback mainly from MVPs for all these recent forum changes? Finally burying the bridge renders the forums unusable for power posters that are only 0.2 % of the users, but contribute more than xx% of the content (you refused to publish xx, unfortunately). And they are responsible for yy% of all answers (again, you refused to publish yy).

    Your apologies sound lame to me. No, I don't understand. And there's no need to thank me for that. Ungraceful regards...


    Martin

    NO THEY ARE NOT EVIL, if you know what you are doing: Good or bad GPOs?
    And - of course - my coke bottle sports car

    Friday, June 21, 2013 3:43 PM
  • @Erland: Just a small note: I was informed in prior about the closing of the Answers-bridge-Web-Service; but I was not aware, that this also might affect the MSDN Bridge...

    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)


    Saturday, June 22, 2013 9:31 AM
  • @Erland: Just a small note: I was informed in prior about the closing of the Answers-bridge-Web-Service; but I was not aware, that this also might affect the MSDN Bridge...

    Nor was the MSDN Bridge team it seems...

    But as I understand it, with Answers there are more changes than just the authentication thing?


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Saturday, June 22, 2013 10:25 AM
  • Keep protesting. Recover NNTP Bridge access, please.
    Sunday, June 23, 2013 2:31 AM
  • [I used to monitor about 12 newsgroups easily. When we switched to the forums I couldn't handle more than about 4 or 5.]

    Subscribing to more than 30 real newsgroups with my newsreader, NNTP Bridge additonally gave me the opportunity to watch more than 40 forums (Answers, MSDN, TechNet). I could get a quick overview of new input/threads/questions, and I could prompt decide where to give an answer.

    Using the WebInterface is horrible.

    Lisa

    Sunday, June 23, 2013 6:29 AM
  • @Erland: As far as I see, only the authetntication was a problem; this is also the only Problem in Answers...

    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)

    Sunday, June 23, 2013 8:19 AM
  • Hi Jochen.

    Do you have a solution (using a different authentication method), or are you waiting for someone from MS to provide you with some information to enable you to make the changes?

    Sunday, June 23, 2013 8:50 AM
  • I am currently implementing the new Live Connect authentication Schema. Then Microsoft (MSDN) can use this to test the new authetntication. Therefor the MSDN-Team need to provide a "ClientID" and maybe they Need to adopt the web-service to use "Live Connect"... but from my side, this should be finished tomorrow... I will post it on codeplex

    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)


    Sunday, June 23, 2013 9:18 AM
  • Great news! Thanks for the update, Jochen. I hope that the MSDN team will be able to complete their part.

    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Sunday, June 23, 2013 9:35 AM
  • Great - finger's crossed we'll be able to use our favourite newsreaders again :)

    Sunday, June 23, 2013 9:40 AM
  • Yet again, MS has demonstrated their inability to understand NNTP access.

    This inability has been obvious since at least 2003 - when MVP's attended a Summit session with OE programmers - who didn't appear to know it existed and was 'supported' in OE.

    It seems to me that MS has been drifting in the direction of total ownership of their support channels - consistently squeezing out ways of creating local 'braindumps' of support-related material.

    Canning the newsgroup support was the first step - which meant that there were a greatly-reduced number of 'supported' and replicated areas.

    Creating the forums was expensive - and maintenance must be even more expensive, especially with the number of so-called 'Support Engineers' and 'Moderators' present (let's call them 'appendages', collectively) in the Answers/Community area, which had previously been catered to almost exclusively by volunteers. These MS appendages seem to do very little except provide (mostly ineffectual or inappropriate) canned links to existing KB articles, and these end up being corrected by volunteers. Very few receive any follow-up from the appendages, except where another comes along a week later to tag the original response as an Answer, even when patently incorrect.

    The fact that the high-volume answerers (with correct answers) are volunteers means that there is a relatively low value attached to the forums.

    By reducing the numbers of such Answerers, it creates increased value in such answers as are given - and these then become saleable.

    Is MS contemplating a move to commercialising their forums? - or, even worse, creating a members-only paid-for service?

    It seems to me that this is certainly the direction that the forums are taking.


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    No - I do not work for Microsoft, or any of its contractors.

    Sunday, June 23, 2013 10:50 AM
    Answerer
  • Very happy to hear this
    Sunday, June 23, 2013 11:41 PM
  • I now posted the new NNTP-Bridge as a Test-Version for the MSDN-Team:

    https://communitybridge.codeplex.com/releases/view/108497

    The MSDN-Team now also needs to modify the web-Service to use the new LiveConnect API and provide an "ClientId" for the Bridge... This is all I can do...

    @All: If someone has LinkedIn, can you please contact Dough and tell him that the bridge is "ready"? I do not want to create an LinkdIn account just for contacting MS...


    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)

    Monday, June 24, 2013 9:55 AM
  • Glad to hear about the progress!

    (And glad to hear that I am not the only one linked out. I do have a LinkedIn account - only so that I could configure that I don't want to be spammed with invitations.)


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Monday, June 24, 2013 10:41 AM
  • I now posted the new NNTP-Bridge as a Test-Version for the MSDN-Team:

    https://communitybridge.codeplex.com/releases/view/108497

    The MSDN-Team now also needs to modify the web-Service to use the new LiveConnect API and provide an "ClientId" for the Bridge... This is all I can do...

    @All: If someone has LinkedIn, can you please contact Dough and tell him that the bridge is "ready"? I do not want to create an LinkdIn account just for contacting MS...


    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)

    I am very appreciated for what you've done. However, I can't run this test version properly after downloading and installing. A very huge error dialogue appears with a full screen of messages. The first four lines are:

    UnhandledException occured:Exception:

    Type.System.Windows.Markup.XamlParseException

    Source:PresentationFramework

    Message: Provide value on "System.Windows.Baml2006.TypeConverterMarkupExtension" threw an exception.

    Stack-Trace:

    ......(Blablabla)

    ......(Blablabla)

    After close this huge error dialogue, a common "This program has occured an error and needs to be closed" window appears. Then the program cannot run.

    What is the matter? Can you help me? Thanks.

    How about others? Can you guys run this test version properly?

    Monday, June 24, 2013 11:35 AM
  • You should download the Source-Version and compile it by yourself. Also you Need .NET-Framework 4.0.


    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)

    Monday, June 24, 2013 11:37 AM
  • @All: If someone has LinkedIn, can you please contact Dough and tell him that the bridge is "ready"? I do not want to create an LinkdIn account just for contacting MS...

    Ich bin nicht mit Doug connected, habe aber eine Einlading an ihn mit dem Verweis auf diesen Thread geschickt :-)

    Tschö
    Mark


    Mark Heitbrink - MVP Windows Server - Group Policy <br/> Homepage: www.gruppenrichtlinien.de - deutsch <br/> GPO Tool: www.reg2xml.com - Registry Export File Converter<br/>

    Monday, June 24, 2013 12:06 PM
  • You should download the Source-Version and compile it by yourself. Also you Need .NET-Framework 4.0.


    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)


    Sorry, but I am not a developer. Could you please kindly provide an already-compiled version?
    Tuesday, June 25, 2013 12:09 AM
  • As Long as the MSDN-Team has not modified the web-service, you cannot do anything with the new bridge..

    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)

    Tuesday, June 25, 2013 5:48 AM
  • As Long as the MSDN-Team has not modified the web-service, you cannot do anything with the new bridge..

    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)

    My God.

    If that's so, does it mean we still have no hope to have NNTP Bridge access back?  

    Tuesday, June 25, 2013 11:33 AM
  • As Long as the MSDN-Team has not modified the web-service, you cannot do anything with the new bridge..

    Have you heard anything back from them? The way to contact Doug appeared a little complicated?

    Anyone else who have been in touch with Doug through that linked-in page?


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Wednesday, June 26, 2013 10:14 PM
  • The MSDN/TechNet forums team is actively tracking feedback provided across the forums (and other channels), prioritizing issues and suggestions, and implementing changes to address them in as timely of a way as we can. 

    Based on our assessment the most appropriate focus for our engineering resources is on the Forums web experience.  We are not working on restoration of the NNTP access to MSDN/TechNet forums at this time.

    We understand that there is a small but very active set of users who prefer to participate in the Forums using the NNTP bridge.  We truly value your participation in the Forums.  We hope that you will continue participating in the forums at the same level, now and in the future, via the Forums web interface.

    Obviously, avid users of NNTP Bridge will be disappointed with this answer (understatement).  That said, investments in the web experience provide the maximum benefit to most users in the Forums community.

    While I am confident that providing data as context for this decision will not make any difference in how NNTP users *feel* about this decision, I do want to address some concern raised above (and elsewhere).

    Here are some facts:

    • Of the users who each provided 200 or more answers in the forums over the last 6 months (equivalent to about 1 answer per day), 97.5% posted those answers using the Forums web interface and 2.5% did so using NNTP.  Clearly, these very high levels of contribution are achievable using either NNTP or the Forums web interface. 
    • In January of 2011, over 4000 unique users accessed the Forums using NNTP bridge. Since then, overall Forums usage and answer volumes have consistently increased while usage and answer volumes for NNTP users have steadily decreased.  Only 97 unique users have accessed the Forums via NNTP Bridge in the last 6 months.  Half of those users answered 10 or fewer questions in total during that period.

                     

    Restoring NNTP bridge access to the Forums would require new one-time dev and test investments in server-side components, as well as ongoing maintenance and execution of test cases that are  executed with every Forums release.  Given the small number of individuals using NNTP to access the Forums, and the clear evidence that high contribution levels are regularly achieved by users of the web interface, redirecting resources from making improvements in core Forums capabilities to focus on NNTP access simply doesn't make economic sense.

    I hope that even if you would prefer the outcome to be different, you at least have the context to understand the rationale for the decision.

    Thanks,

    Doug


    Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:26 AM
  • The MSDN/TechNet forums team is actively tracking feedback provided across the forums (and other channels), prioritizing issues and suggestions, and implementing changes to address them in as timely of a way as we can. 

    Based on our assessment the most appropriate focus for our engineering resources is on the Forums web experience.  We are not working on restoration of the NNTP access to MSDN/TechNet forums at this time.

    I hope that even if you would prefer the outcome to be different, you at least have the context to understand the rationale for the decision.


    If that's so, then I suppose it's time to say GOODBYE FOREVER to the forums.

    MS abandons us, we have no choice but to leave. I don't have any motivity, any interest, any confidence to continue participating in forums without NNTP Bridge access. That would be extreme unefficient waste of time.

    I think the main reason why NNTP Bridge users becoming fewer and fewer is the lack of NNTP Bridge support. Most users even don't know what is NNTP Bridge and how to use it. They have no choice but to suffer the low performance of the Web forums. However, this doesn't envelop the benefits of NNTP Bridge. So far as I know, almost every user considers NNTP Bridge is much more efficient than using Web forums only, if only they've learnt how to use it.

    Let me quote the slogan of Windows Phone "Put people first". Please, kindly give some mercy to those 97 unique users. Smart companies never disappoint their unique supporters. 

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:05 AM
  • Sad day, but I guess we've seen it coming for years.

    So, where's a decent usable place to help people with their Windows development support issues. I've been trying to use these MS forums, but I can't easily follow anything where I've posted a reply. I think it's time to give up and look elsewhere for a better use of my time. Is stackoverflow any easier to follow things on?

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:23 AM
    • In January of 2011, over 4000 unique users accessed the Forums using NNTP bridge. Since then, overall Forums usage and answer volumes have consistently increased while usage and answer volumes for NNTP users have steadily decreased.  Only 97 unique users have accessed the Forums via NNTP Bridge in the last 6 months.  Half of those users answered 10 or fewer questions in total during that period.

                     


    Are the 97 Users only for MSDN or for MSDN And Technet Forums? All over the World or will MSFT count users for countrys? How many of the 4000 Users are now active in MSDN and Technet Forums?

    Sorry, but i can not believe that only 97 Users Worldwide using the NNTP-Bridge active for participate the MSDN and Technet Forums.

    > Of the users who each provided 200 or more answers in the forums over the last 6 months (equivalent to about 1 answer per day), 97.5% posted those answers using the Forums web interface and 2.5% did so using NNTP.

    How many NNTP-Bridge User provided less then 200 answers, but more than 100?

    Thanks and Regards
    Winfried

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:41 AM
    • Of the users who each provided 200 or more answers in the forums over the last 6 months (equivalent to about 1 answer per day), 97.5% posted those answers using the Forums web interface and 2.5% did so using NNTP.  Clearly, these very high levels of contribution are achievable using either NNTP or the Forums web interface. 
    • In January of 2011, over 4000 unique users accessed the Forums using NNTP bridge. Since then, overall Forums usage and answer volumes have consistently increased while usage and answer volumes for NNTP users have steadily decreased.  Only 97 unique users have accessed the Forums via NNTP Bridge in the last 6 months.  Half of those users answered 10 or fewer questions in total during that period.

                     


    ...and what do you have to say to those users who, like me, use the Bridge to do thread selection, but respond direct to the forum? - It's a fairly unholy marriage, but it works for me, as I'm much more easily able on a 3G connection to download the threads in a forum, construct a reply, and send it after checking for further updates.

    I have averaged something like 80-120 answers per month for the past 3 years -  nearly 2000 answers per year, using that technique.

    Granted, in the MSDN/Microsoft forums, it's less difficult for me than in the Answers/Community forum, since my speciality has its own forums here, while in the Community forums, WGA questions get spattered all over the shop - My participation in the Community forums has dropped dramatically since the loss of the Bridge, as it's almost impossible to get a decent search response out of the engine, and I have better things to do than to try and tame that aspect.


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    No - I do not work for Microsoft, or any of its contractors.

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:42 AM
    Answerer
  • Of the users who each provided 200 or more answers in the forums over the last 6 months (equivalent to about 1 answer per day), 97.5% posted those answers using the Forums web interface and 2.5% did so using NNTP.  Clearly, these very high levels of contribution are achievable using either NNTP or the Forums web interface.

    I suppose "answer" in your statement in reality means "reply to a post". What about the real "answers" that in fact were marked as an answer?

    I agree with Winfried - your stats do not sound realistic to me...


    Martin

    NO THEY ARE NOT EVIL, if you know what you are doing: Good or bad GPOs?
    And if IT bothers me - coke bottle design refreshment :))

    Restore the forum design - my user defined Cascading Style Sheet!

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 9:04 AM
  • I suppose "answer" in your statement in reality means "reply to a post". What about the real "answers" that in fact were marked as an answer?

    I agree with Winfried - your stats do not sound realistic to me...

    A "Answer" is as a Answer marked Post, not a reply to a post. Is only my opinion, but i think i am right. ;)

    Winfried

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 9:10 AM
  • MS abandons us, we have no choice but to leave. I don't have any motivity, any interest, any confidence to continue participating in forums without NNTP Bridge access. That would be extreme unefficient waste of time. [...]

    Let me quote the slogan of Windows Phone "Put people first". Please, kindly give some mercy to those 97 unique users.

    I mainly used NNTP Bridge for Answers forums, but also for MSDN/TechNet.

    We have to consider, that - as already mentioned - not each user knew about the Bridge, and not each user could get the Bridge.

    I guess, the Bridge is not much important for users, who just jump in to ask a question and get a quick answer, and who never come back. The NNTP Bridge is very important for those, who answer questions, and for those who want to get a quick overview and learn from questions/answers of other users.

    Lisa

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 10:02 AM
  • In January of 2011, over 4000 unique users accessed the Forums using NNTP bridge. Since then, overall Forums usage and answer volumes have consistently increased while usage and answer volumes for NNTP users have steadily decreased.  Only 97 unique users have accessed the Forums via NNTP Bridge in the last 6 months.

    I find this statistic almost impossible to believe. NNTP users are a pretty die-hard group and I just cannot imagine that almost all the NNTP users in January 2011 had abandoned the bridge by June 2013. Why would they?

    If there has been a recent drop-off of bridge users, it may be because the bridge had been partially broken for several months. Posts from the bridge were not being listed as the latest response in the forum interface. Repeated pleas to fix this were ignored.

    I also find the statistics in Doug's post to be somewhat cherry-picked. Nowhere is it stated what is the actual fraction of marked answers that come form the bridge.

    Unlike the forum interface, with its constantly changing UX, and hence constantly changing bugs, NNTP requires no maintenance from the forum team. Fixing the authentication issue would be a one-time cost, and a very small cost compared to the effort that Jochen and others put into perfecting the bridge.


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 10:54 AM
  • We have to consider, that - as already mentioned - not each user knew about the Bridge, and not each user could get the Bridge.

    I guess, the Bridge is not much important for users, who just jump in to ask a question and get a quick answer, and who never come back. The NNTP Bridge is very important for those, who answer questions, and for those who want to get a quick overview and learn from questions/answers of other users.

    Lisa

    I strongly agree with you. NNTP Bridge is almost indispensable for the forum contributors like you and me.

    I've saved over 15000 posts in my newsreader in the past 12 years (including MSDN & TechNet forums and the former MS newsgroups). This has already become my "Personal Knowledge Base". If I see a same question I've answered before, I often search it in my news reader to get the answer quickly. It not only improves my replying efficiency, but also helps me enhance my memory on the question.

    To say the least, even for those forum question askers, as I mentioned before, most of them also consider that NNTP Bridge is better than the Web forum, if only they've learnt how to use it. The main problem is just as you said - they don't know how to and cannot get the NNTP Bridge. This is not NNTP Bridge's fault, it's MS's mistake. From the day NNTP Bridge released until now, MS has never efficiently introduced NNTP Bridge to the public. How could the amount of NNTP Bridge users increase?

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 11:26 AM
  • Of the users who each provided 200 or more answers in the forums over the last 6 months (equivalent to about 1 answer per day), 97.5% posted those answers using the Forums web interface and 2.5% did so using NNTP.  Clearly, these very high levels of contribution are achievable using either NNTP or the Forums web interface. 
    • In January of 2011, over 4000 unique users accessed the Forums using NNTP bridge. Since then, overall Forums usage and answer volumes have consistently increased while usage and answer volumes for NNTP users have steadily decreased.  Only 97 unique users have accessed the Forums via NNTP Bridge in the last 6 months.  Half of those users answered 10 or fewer questions in total during that period.               

    Are the 97 Bridge User the MS-NNTP-Bridge Users or Users from Jochen's NNTP Bridge?


    Winfried

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 11:58 AM
  • Doug,

    as you have statistics by the hand:

    How did the redesign influence the number of new questions beeing asked ?

    How did the redesign influence the number posts / answers beeing given ?


    Hannes

    If you have got questions about this, just ask.

    In a perfect world,
    users would never enter data in the wrong form,
    files they choose to open would always exist
    and code would never have bugs.

    My Forum Threads

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:01 PM
  • I guess thats true. But how many Forum posters do have more than 200 answers (Posts marked as answer) in comparison. I can't imagine that I'm one of 97 peoples using the nntp Bridge provided by Jochen over the last half year. At least sending 200 Posts with my newsreader (to TechNet Forums btw.). And guess what, not all these posts are marked as an answer. Maybe it's not that important to nntp users to have a Gold medal, than having helped to answer the question.

    Just my thoughts.

    Norbert


    Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:21 PM
  • How did the redesign influence the number of new questions beeing asked ?

    How did the redesign influence the number posts / answers beeing given ?


    I would love to see an answer to these questions, but I highly doubt they will admit to causing a huge drop in forum activity.
    Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:33 PM
    Moderator
  • Are the 97 Bridge User the MS-NNTP-Bridge Users or Users from Jochen's NNTP Bridge?
    This is an excellent question! To which, IMHO, we deserve an answer...

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 1:07 PM
  • So, where's a decent usable place to help people with their Windows development support issues.  ...

    What about newsgroups, for example alt.comp.os.windows-8 or similar...

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 1:11 PM
  • as you have statistics by the hand:

    How did the redesign influence the number of new questions beeing asked ?

    How did the redesign influence the number posts / answers beeing given ?

    I know the Answer, you too. :)



    Winfried

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 1:25 PM
  • There's just no way for me to be as active with just the web interface as I wont be able to follow as many forums.  It's true I answer very few questions in some of the forums I followed as they aren't my specialty, but I did answer some and it's good to have a different viewpoint at times.

    I'll continue to monitor 2 or 3 forums (down from over 20), so I wont just go away, but I'm not very hapy about it and I think Microsoft will lose more than they think...

    And fwiw, the latest web forum update does not help in making it more usuable for my type of usage.  There's too much dead space making you have to scroll a lot more, which slows things down. (when doing multiple forums, speed is king)

     


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine


    • Edited by Bob Comer Thursday, June 27, 2013 1:57 PM spelling
    Thursday, June 27, 2013 1:30 PM
  • Most of the ones I've looked at have next to no traffic :(

    I'll watch a few for a few days!

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 1:44 PM
  • What about newsgroups, for example alt.comp.os.windows-8 or similar...




    Some more traffic in the microsoft.public.word.* newsgroups would be nice...


    Stefan Blom, Microsoft Word MVP

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:06 PM
  • I think there are a lot of people like me who daily "followed" selected forums via the NNTP bridge but did not ask a lot of questions or answer a lot questions.  I suspect we don't show in any of your statistics.  For me it is far too much work and too time consuming to even follow the forum in the web.  The bridge was sooooooo much better.  Given that the SBS forum is the one I followed the most and Microsoft has ditched that product, I feel doubly rejected by Microsoft with their decision to stop supporting the bridges.  Goodbye Micorsoft.
    Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:08 PM
  • StackOverflow?

    Efficiently read and post to forums with newsreaders: http://communitybridge.codeplex.com

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:16 PM
  • Thank you this news, Doug.  It is better to hear it than be left in the dark.  I must question the cited required resources, because we have endured outages of the bridge for some time and it is very apparent these resources were not in place, or these outages would not have occurred.

    Much thanks to Jochen for working hard to deliver the v5 test version of the bridge to MS in the mistaken hope that that would have done any good.  It sounds like MS did not even look at it.  

    Thanks,

    David


    Efficiently read and post to forums with newsreaders: http://communitybridge.codeplex.com

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:57 PM
  • Based on our assessment the most appropriate focus for our engineering resources is on the Forums web experience.  We are not working on restoration of the NNTP access to MSDN/TechNet forums at this time.

    Yes, given how you messed up the web UI, that's seems a fair priority to get things fixed. Then again, if you had focused on keeping the NNTP bridge alive, and let the web UI both web users and NNTP users would have been happier.

    We understand that there is a small but very active set of users who prefer to participate in the Forums using the NNTP bridge.  We truly value your participation in the Forums.  We hope that you will continue participating in the forums at the same level, now and in the future, via the Forums web interface.

    Yes, Doug, I will be around here even without the bridge, if you can offer me the best web experience for me when I want to answer questions about SQL Server. I have not made a survey of the alternatives, but I would be very surprised (and disappointed) if there is not anything better. The MS forums never had any good reputation as web forums, and the recent changes has not made it better. You wrecked a couple things that worked decently, but you did not fix one of the really sore points: the posting window. You have not even been able to change the completely undiscoverable button to include code.

    The MS Forums had one ace. Had.


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 9:21 PM
  • I've been using MSDN forums for several years. In T-SQL forum I've been active since 2009. With the new forum's UI my participation dropped 90%. I can not follow the threads with the same ease.

    I also don't understand why there was a need to take something decently working, start introducing bugs beginning end of last year and finally drop untested buggy inconvenient interface on the innocent people. So all people who wanted to help now either have to work through this buggy interface or find a new forum to answer questions.


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog


    My TechNet articles

    Thursday, June 27, 2013 9:55 PM
    Moderator
  • The MSDN/TechNet forums team is actively tracking feedback provided across the forums (and other channels), prioritizing issues and suggestions, and implementing changes to address them in as timely of a way as we can. 

    We understand that there is a small but very active set of users who prefer to participate in the Forums using the NNTP bridge.  We truly value your participation in the Forums.  We hope that you will continue participating in the forums at the same level, now and in the future, via the Forums web interface.


    My last answer to this incredibly lousy statement:

    You say you are tracking feedback? Very nice, but you don't care about this feedback, so why should we give it anymore?

    You hope we will be continue? No - at least not me. I've contributed more than 3.000 replies in the last 12 months. With your crappy and lousy web interface, this will NOT happen anymore. Good bye...


    Martin

    NO THEY ARE NOT EVIL, if you know what you are doing: Good or bad GPOs?
    And if IT bothers me - coke bottle design refreshment :))

    Restore the forum design - my user defined Cascading Style Sheet!

    Friday, June 28, 2013 6:42 AM
  • Make the web forums work that efficiently and then you can safely dispense with NNTP access.
    If it already does allow you to work that efficiently, please tell me how you do it.

    The main problem is they became counter roboters without thinking what they read and are looking at the numbers in a wrong way. They count pagehits and I'm sure 98% of the users behind the hits are searching if the problem is solved already. If they find the solution they leave. These users won't post anything and we as regulars don't see these. But they have a sheer number! For these users the new interface may be much more convenient than a Newsreader that has to be setup for the newsgroups and has to be synchronized.

    From the remaining 2% that are actually writing something in the forums or using the voting buttom I guess around 90% are only interested in their question and in their solution to the question. They did a search first and didn't find the question answered yet, so they ask it. For these one the user interface is still acceptable or even has gone better with the recent changes.

    Now the big oversight of the programm managers with their short view comes: The remaining 10% of the 2% of the users (resulting in the seen 0.2% of users they mentioned) are answering many different questions in many different forums and for many different users. For these 0.2% of the visitors there was the NNTP bridge that allowed us to answer the questions fast and easily. And most important what the program managers don't see or don't want to see and accept (in their short way of thinking): These 0.2% make keep the Forums alive, let the information flow. Without the answers of these 0.2% of the users MS could trash the forums very soon as no answers are flowing in anymore that address the questions and give background information. These 0.2% of the visitors are actually the brain and the heart of the forums, the users are the food. But the program managers decided they don't need the brain and heart anymore or we will find another way to work, getting used to inefficiency and not further disturbing them. Maybe they even would be happy to not have us here anymore and blaiming them for miss-decissions. And so they even decided to make the UI even better for 99.8% of the users even when it get worse for the regulars that keep the information flowing... Very very clever!

    That's an unbeleavable short way of thinking of the program managers and the ones that decide. But these are their products and their forums and we - the ones that try to help them to still use their products - are probably not needed anymore (at least in their point of view). They actually to us also only sell less than 0.2 of the products as many of us get it free to use (except me). So what? Will today a single $ get lost? Not at all. And what comes after tomorrow doesn't count for the same programm manager anymore. He was successfully reducing his costs and will get an even better job and refine maybe Windows 8.1 ;-)

    Henry

    Friday, June 28, 2013 6:52 AM
  • Don't rely on "giving feedback" or ranting at MSFT - they will ignore it.

    DO something...

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/de-DE/0ba52a3c-3784-4792-bdab-38f98d81d19c/questions-about-group-policy-goodbye-windowsservergp


    Martin

    NO THEY ARE NOT EVIL, if you know what you are doing: Good or bad GPOs?
    And if IT bothers me - coke bottle design refreshment :))

    Restore the forum design - my user defined Cascading Style Sheet!

    Friday, June 28, 2013 7:02 AM
  • I don't understand and cannot believe why is MS still insisting their wrong decision after seeing all the replies in this thread? Or they've never read what we are protesting? If that's so, you lack not only communication, but also basic respect to us.

     

    Friday, June 28, 2013 8:44 AM
  • how many are replying here? 50, maybe 100? They calculate in millions. And they assume: Anybody not complaining here agrees, so it's millions vs. tens. So the reponsibles respect the silent majority more than us...


    • Edited by Henry Habermacher Friday, June 28, 2013 8:52 AM who cares, can't see anywhere anyway...
    Friday, June 28, 2013 8:50 AM
  • Also, I doubt that percentage reflects the numbers of those like myself, who answer questions but have significantly reduced their participation, due to the clunkiness of the web interface.

    Ron

    Friday, June 28, 2013 10:49 AM
  • Also, I doubt that percentage reflects the numbers of those like myself, who answer questions but have significantly reduced their participation, due to the clunkiness of the web interface.

    Ron


    I even dont't have confidence to do a reduced participation only with the web interface.
    Friday, June 28, 2013 11:04 AM
  • Sorry, but i can not believe that only 97 Users Worldwide using the NNTP-Bridge active for participate the MSDN and Technet Forums.

    Yep, incredible.
    I've been 1 of the alleged 97, of course using Jochen's bridge.

    Just in case somebody counts if there are more than 97 who pop up in this thread.

    ;-)

    Sunday, June 30, 2013 9:34 PM
  • The forced use of the web interface (which is orders of magnitude worse than any NNTP interface) will also decrease my personal participation by orders of magnitude. I'm sorry, but there aren't enough hours in the day to read and answer very many questions through the web interface. Web forums are fine for one-off questioners, but not so much for folks who'd like to bulk-read new questions, answer, and follow up on previous answers.

    Based on my knowledge of the participation level of most of the disappointed users involved in this thread, I sincerely hope this non-support doesn't make the forums themselves obsolete for all the questioners.

    Bob


    Sunday, June 30, 2013 9:38 PM
  • Here are only the upper half of 97 NNTP-Bridge users replying like you and me. It was difficult in the last months with the time delay when posting via bridge. And now the bridge is dead, like the german sql server forums.



    Greetings,
    Christoph Muthmann
    Microsoft SQL Server MVP - Blog


    Monday, July 01, 2013 9:02 AM
  • I don't understand and cannot believe why is MS still insisting their wrong decision after seeing all the replies in this thread? Or they've never read what we are protesting? If that's so, you lack not only communication, but also basic respect to us.

    I am here, and reading.  (Even if I don't always post!)

    I want to make sure to clarify: We did not make this decision lightly. I know I said it in my original post but it is worth repeating:

    While we understand how useful the tool is and how important those members that use the bridge are, we had to make the decision we did. 

    We apologize for the inconvenience and frustration this decision has caused some of you, we know how much the bridge users do for this community.

    Monday, July 01, 2013 9:04 PM
  • Here are the recommendations of some C++ and C# MVP’s for “Coping with the loss of the Forums NNTP Bridge”:

     

    StackOverflow

    * Ignore the Forums and use Stack Overflow, StackExchange, and ‘sidecar’ site-specific chats. Make sure your MVP lead knows who you are on SO and Programmers.  Consensus it is a far more usable site, even if it is web based.  Many questions are duplicated on StackOverflow and the Forums.  (Kate Gregory, Josh Petrie, Eric Battalio, Roman Ryltsov)

    RSS Feeds

    * Read the forum’s RSS feed in an RSS reader to concisely see thread activity (Sheng Jiang, Roman Ryltsov)

    Email Notification

    * Enable email notification for any thread that you post to, so you will be notified by email when there are more posts to that thread.  Paired with RSS Feed (see above), you don’t have to use Forums Thread View anymore to keep up with your threads (Roman Ryltsov).

    Tweak Forum Website to emulate NewsReader

    * Only use the Forums in a modern browser such as Chrome, Firefox, or IE 10, as it is JavaScript intensive and needs the latest browser optimizations to perform well.  (Bonnie DeWitt)

    * The posts in a forum thread can be shown either hierarchically (Thread View) or by time (Flat View).  Go into “My Settings” change to your liking.  (Bonnie DeWitt)

    * Use the forum’s Thread List View to show threads.  See e.g. http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/97533062-ecb1-43d3-a98d-a53358281870/full-width-forum-view-css-script-for-injection for how to hack the CSS to reformat this view to your liking. (Sheng Jiang)

     * Sort by “Most Recent Post” to emulate a newsreader’s ability to highlight threads with new posts.  Or sort by “Most Recent Thread” to find new topics quickly.  (Reed Copsey)

    * Create new browser bookmarks for each “view”.  In the Forums tree on the left side, check the forums whose threads you want to see in the list on the right side.  Then bookmark that url so you can preserve your selected forums.  After selecting the forums you want, collapse the forums tree on the left.  (David Wilkinson, Reed Copsey)

    * Expand the thread inline using the tiny arrows on the left side of the thread list.  This lets you read the thread without navigating the entire page to that thread.  (David Ching)

    * Contribute suggestions for improvements, but beware the general consensus is feedback is rarely taken (so give your feedback quickly and concisely):  http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/home?forum=forumsredesign

    Personally, I plan to become more active in StackOverflow while using the RSS feed/Email notification options to keep an eye on the forums.  I had used the RSS before the Community Bridge was invented, and while it lets you achieve the same workflow as newsreaders (see headers first, expand on interesting ones) it overall is very slow compared to using a newsreader.  StackOverflow is a seemless experience and gives reasonable, if not blazing, speed.

    Thanks,
    David

    P.S.  Sorry for the formatting, that is the way it pasted into this lame HTML editor, and I'm not going to waste time trying to get it right.

    Monday, July 01, 2013 11:43 PM
  • I am here, and reading.  (Even if I don't always post!)

    I want to make sure to clarify: We did not make this decision lightly. I know I said it in my original post but it is worth repeating:

    While we understand how useful the tool is and how important those members that use the bridge are, we had to make the decision we did. 

    We apologize for the inconvenience and frustration this decision has caused some of you, we know how much the bridge users do for this community.

    Well then, you know it, and you refuse to correct it. Isn't it the truth?

    You just repeat once and again that you didn't make the decision lightly, but you've never explained clearly why you "HAD TO" make such a wrong decision.

    If you're really facing technical obstacle and cannot fix it, you should let everyone know and discuss together whether we can find a way to solve it. We won't complain anymore if we really cannot do anything.

    But what actually happened was, even Jochan had already provided a solution and waited for your reaction (see his reply on Jun.24), you still refused to accept it. Why? According to this negative attitude, I even can't help considering that you totally don't care about the forums and happy to see its death.

    Forgive me if I said something too much. I'm very disappointed and frustrated.

    Monday, July 01, 2013 11:58 PM
  • I want to make sure to clarify: We did not make this decision lightly. I know I said it in my original post but it is worth repeating:

    There is one thing that irritates me more than the fact the NNTP bridge is dead and that is that you insist to telling lies.

    We know already that for the MSDN forums it was not a conscious decision at all. We also know that the sole thing you need to fix is the authentication, which must be a small affair. It is not that you changed the infrastructure so that the bridge would not fit in.

    I can understand that in the long run, the techies feel that the NNTP bridge is a burden, and there have been funny tweaks like delaying the posts from the bridge. So the authentication was taken as a lame excuse to close down the bridge for Answers. And for MSDN - it just happened.


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Tuesday, July 02, 2013 7:57 AM
  • I've been using news.eternal-september.org for a while now. Its not as active as the main MS forums, but with time it might get more active.

    http://www.newsgroupreviews.com/eternal-september.html

    Friday, July 05, 2013 11:43 AM
  • I've been using news.eternal-september.org for a while now. Its not as active as the main MS forums, but with time it might get more active.

    http://www.newsgroupreviews.com/eternal-september.html

    Yes, eternal-september is great, but what newsgroups do you follow there?

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Friday, July 05, 2013 12:00 PM
  • Count me too...97 seems impossibly low. But as others have stated, even if true, it doesn't value the NNTP bridge users correctly because the vast majority of users are (a) not willing to invest time in learning to use the NNTP bridge and (b) probably were not even aware that there is an alternative to using the aweful web forum interface.

    A useful analogy might be driving to work. Say you were a little geographically-challenged and didn't know your work was a 5 minute walk around the corner. You find a route that is 25 miles and takes 60 in terrible traffic and not knowing any better you're happy. One day you buy a GPS and are shocked and (happily) surprised...

    In my opinion, Microsoft should stop the web interface and ONLY allow NNTP bridge access! :o)

    Friday, July 05, 2013 12:01 PM
  • Is there any way to get NNTP newsreader access to the Stack Overflow news groups? My experience of SO is also excellent.

    An option I find I can still use in Outlook Express 6 is eternal-september which is not very active but has some really competent users. http://www.newsgroupreviews.com/eternal-september.html.

    Friday, July 05, 2013 12:05 PM
  • Currently I am working on an NNTP Bridge for StackOverflow. But it might take some time... Stay tuned:

    http://stackappnntpbridge.kalmbach.eu/


    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)

    Friday, July 05, 2013 12:44 PM
  • Currently I am working on an NNTP Bridge for StackOverflow. But it might take some time... Stay tuned:

    http://stackappnntpbridge.kalmbach.eu/


    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)

    Just be aware that NNTP doesn't necessarily make sense for StackOverflow - StackOverflow is not a forum, it's an answer site.  It's extremely inappropriate to reply to a post more than once, and there is not a concept of "threads" and responses.  While I'm sure you can force their model into NNTP, you'll miss out on a HUGE portion of the StackOverflow experience, which really necessitates having access to voting, commenting, etc - none of which will work via NNTP.


    Reed Copsey, Jr. - http://reedcopsey.com - If a post answers your question, please click Mark As Answer on that post. If you find a post helpful, please click Vote as Helpful.

    Friday, July 05, 2013 4:46 PM
  • The bigger picture is to have both ways of access.  I used NNTP here mostly for efficient discovery of topics and a quick read of the conversation to date.   I would also use the website for composition and to some degree the "social" avenues.

    Friday, July 05, 2013 5:44 PM
  • The bigger picture is to have both ways of access.  I used NNTP here mostly for efficient discovery of topics and a quick read of the conversation to date.   I would also use the website for composition and to some degree the "social" avenues.


    Really? For me, the composition window was (and is) the most vexing aspect of the forum experience.

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Friday, July 05, 2013 6:08 PM
  • How so?  As with this reply, I just type and then hit the Submit button.

    How is that vexing?

    Friday, July 05, 2013 6:52 PM
  • Not to worry.  With this latest iteration, it is now so difficult to follow anything except the shortest threads on this group that meaningful responses will be precluded.

    Ron

    Friday, July 05, 2013 7:28 PM
  • How so?  As with this reply, I just type and then hit the Submit button.

    How is that vexing?

    Yes, producing a simple two-liner is trivial in the sleaziset of interfaces. Now try to use the posting window and include five code samples, and interleave five quotes of the article you post. Without using the HTML button.

    Also, imagine that you are a newbie and try to paste code from your editor. Do you find the secret button?

    Or why not try pasting an image into the post:

    Ah, that seems to work! (Except that I since I've tried this before, I know that the image will not be there.)

    To be fair, there is one advantage with the posting window in the MSDN forums in difference to many other forums: you still see the rest of the thread while composing the answer, which is quite important. (Not for thread like this one, but when you are actually helping someone.)


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Friday, July 05, 2013 7:48 PM
  • Currently I am working on an NNTP Bridge for StackOverflow. But it might take some time... Stay tuned:

    http://stackappnntpbridge.kalmbach.eu/


    Great news, Jochen! Someone else points out that Stack Overflow works differently, but I'd question that. If you are supposed to answer only once, the quality of the questions asked must be a lot higher over there than in these forums! In the forums I (used to) monitor, I often myself staring at the question and asking myself, so what does he really want to do?

    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Friday, July 05, 2013 7:51 PM
  • I've been using news.eternal-september.org for a while now. Its not as active as the main MS forums, but with time it might get more active.

    http://www.newsgroupreviews.com/eternal-september.html

    Unlikely, although it of course it depends on your area of interest. I still monitor the old Microsoft newsgroups for SQL Server over eternal-september, but there is not even a question every week.

    I also follow some regular Usenet groups that way, and while a group like rec.games.trivia has a steady traffic, it's really a small group of less than 30 people who post there.


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Friday, July 05, 2013 8:42 PM
  • Great news, Jochen! Someone else points out that Stack Overflow works differently, but I'd question that. If you are supposed to answer only once, the quality of the questions asked must be a lot higher over there than in these forums! In the forums I (used to) monitor, I often myself staring at the question and asking myself, so what does he really want to do?


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Erland - 

    SO works differently.  You edit your existing answers, and don't add replies - "discussion" is frowned upon (to the point where your content will be deleted or voted down so far you never see it), other than in comments.  Each "answer" (reply) is meant to be a completely stand-alone response to the one and only question.  Back and forth dialogue is handled via comments and editing your original response, not adding a new response.

    The entire workflow is different, as it wasn't designed to be a forum - the design is different and was intended to be different from day 1.

    I'd recommend trying StackOverflow for a few weeks - I'm very active there (top 0.01% of users by rep there), and like it (and the forums here).  The type of questions encouraged there (and actively discouraged there) is different, and the way the entire site works is different enough that it really doesn't lend itself to NNTP....


    Reed Copsey, Jr. - http://reedcopsey.com - If a post answers your question, please click Mark As Answer on that post. If you find a post helpful, please click Vote as Helpful.

    Friday, July 05, 2013 8:57 PM
  • I had partial success asking questions on StackOverflow. I was able to get some good responses but when I attempted to engage in conversation it was hard.

    I don't think it's easy to answer there. 


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog


    My TechNet articles


    Friday, July 05, 2013 9:03 PM
    Moderator
  • Please keep in mind that I used the bridge to monitor as much as I did to answer.

    It's harder now to watch for trends across all of your forums.   


    Friday, July 05, 2013 9:32 PM
  • That's what I find too.   It was very easy to watch for topics and quickly read content via the NNTP access.  And now it is very time consuming and awkward to do the same using the web page access.      What is the timeline for Microsoft to make revisions to this community outreach forum?   Is that a question for which we will just have to guess the answer?

    I'll probably just ignore it for a few months and then check back to see if anything has changed.

    Friday, July 05, 2013 9:57 PM
  • How so?  As with this reply, I just type and then hit the Submit button.

    How is that vexing?

    Inline quoting is only possible by editing HTML directly (which I became reasonably proficient at, but it's not a skill I'm really interested in honing; it's quite annoying and time consuming).

    While I'm here: the RSS feed only seems to report when new threads are created, but not when responses are posted in existing threads. The web interface keeps track of read, unread and "semi-read" threads, but not of the read status of individual posts (as a newsreader would do). This makes it hard to find new posts in a long thread. As far as I can tell, the only workaround is to explicitly subscribe (add an alert) to every new thread, so that I would receive email notifications (at which point, it's like a mailing list, only worse). I have not yet found a reasonable solution to this problem.


    Igor Tandetnik

    Saturday, July 06, 2013 1:48 PM
  • How so?  As with this reply, I just type and then hit the Submit button.

    How is that vexing?

    Sure, to ask: 'how is the weather in Seattle?' And to answer: 'rainy and cold' this UI works fine. But that's not what we are doing here and is the reason for these forums...
    Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:27 PM
  • OK..it turns out that I provided a trivial example of what's "not vexing".  But what I asked is what is vexing, especially in the context of this thread.  

    In other words, what is it that the NNTP Bridge provided, composition-wise, that the older or newer Web interface does not provide.
    There was many times when I used the NNTP Bridge for less than trivially composed replies, that I was disappointed that I could not be more sophisticated.  So, I went to the Web interface instead and learned the basics of inserting code, links and formatted text.

    At the end, I was using the NNTP Bridge exclusively for discovery of content and using the Web exclusively for composition.  What I'm calling a synergy involving both ways of access.

    I'm finding now that I absolutely still need both ways of access in order to be even mildly productive in these forums.  Either the NNTP Bridge will need to be enabled again, or this Web interface will need to be changed to allow efficient discovery of thread topics and the content within each thread.

     
    Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:49 PM
  • SO works differently.  You edit your existing answers, and don't add replies - "discussion" is frowned upon (to the point where your content will be deleted or voted down so far you never see it), other than in comments.  Each "answer" (reply) is meant to be a completely stand-alone response to the one and only question.  Back and forth dialogue is handled via comments and editing your original response, not adding a new response.

    Thanks for so succinctly explaining how SO overflow works.  After being on SO for a week, my understanding is that the SO message hierarchy translates OK into NNTP:  
        1) Each SO Question is the first NNTP Post of an NNTP thread";
        2) Each SO Reply to this question is a NNTP Reply to the first NNTP Post;
        3) Each SO Comment is a NNTP reply to the first NNTP Reply.  

    SO does not have more than these 3 levels (Question, Replies, Comments), so that is the entire mapping.  Since NNTP supports an n-level hierarchy, it can represent the SO hierarchy with no problem.

    When replying to #1, it is ambiguous whether you are

        1) editing the Question (possible only if you are the original poster),
        2) Adding a new reply,
        3) Adding a new comment

    Similarly, when replying to #2, it is ambiguous whether you are

        1) Editing the reply (possible only if you authored it)
        2) Adding a new comment

    The user must somehow clarify these ambiguities.  It can be solved in a variety of ways.  For example, adding a tag in either the subject or body of the reply, e.g. [edit] or [add reply] or [add comment].  If there is an error, the Bridge could return an error and refuse to post the response.

    Thanks,
    David

    Saturday, July 06, 2013 4:59 PM
  • How so?  As with this reply, I just type and then hit the Submit button.

    How is that vexing?

    It is vexing when you delete the blank line between paragraphs, and then the text of the next paragraph becomes incredibly small, with no way to undo it other than retype that paragraph!
    Saturday, July 06, 2013 5:04 PM
  • Just a small note: The first Version of the Bridge will be read-only... then you can submit suggestions... It will use additional tags in the subject like [Comment], [Answer], [Edit...]

    Currently I do not see any problems in providing an NNTP Feeling of SO...

    Also please use the following link to further disuss the StackOverlfow-Bridge, because this is Off-Topic here:

    https://stackappnntpbridge.codeplex.com/discussions/449211


    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)


    Saturday, July 06, 2013 5:15 PM
  • Inline quoting is only possible by editing HTML directly

    Both here (where there is an HTML editor capability) and on Answers (where there isn't) you can interleave quotes and responses by

    1. appending something to the original quote (FWIW I use an a)
    2. doing a Ctrl-a and Ctrl-c to capture the whole thing (including, most significantly your addition #1)
    3. doing as many Ctrl-v as you estimate you will need to use
    4. then just edit away all the redundancy and add relevancy

     

    While I'm here: the RSS feed only seems to report when new threads are created

    I think it actually gets A10:updated tags and reflects them in an ordering of your feed but unfortunately only shows content from the OP.  So you can use them to keep aware of updates, you just aren't given any clue about why they are happening.  To do that you would still need to go and open the thread.  And it doesn't even give us the LastReply link so you would have to find that manually too.  This facility is available in both IE and WLMail.

     

    FYI



    Robert Aldwinckle
    ---

    Saturday, July 06, 2013 5:27 PM
  • Microsoft needs to fix that, don't they?

    What are the Community access ways to report these bugs?

    I'm wondering if there is anything like

    https://connect.microsoft.com/PowerShell/SearchResults.aspx?FeedbackType=0&Scope=0&SortOrder=5

    for this Microsoft website?   




    Saturday, July 06, 2013 5:47 PM
  •  

    While I'm here: the RSS feed only seems to report when new threads are created

    I think it actually gets A10:updated tags and reflects them in an ordering of your feed but unfortunately only shows content from the OP.  So you can use them to keep aware of updates, you just aren't given any clue about why they are happening.  To do that you would still need to go and open the thread.  And it doesn't even give us the LastReply link so you would have to find that manually too.  This facility is available in both IE and WLMail.

    Yes, this is a fatal flaw with the RSS feed, rendering it useless IMHO. I don't think the a10:updated tags actually provide any information, because they always seem to contain the same time stamp as the original post.

    The posts are ordered on the RSS page according to last post, but this ordering (I think) is not generated from the content of the items in the feed.

    What is needed is a Last Reply with time stamp and author, for each thread.

    I complained about this a long time ago, but it was never changed. At that time I did not care too much, because I was using NNTP. Now I might like to use the RSS feed, if it worked properly.


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Saturday, July 06, 2013 6:16 PM
  • Microsoft needs to fix that, don't they?

    What are the Community access ways to report these bugs?

    I'm wondering if there is anything like

    https://connect.microsoft.com/PowerShell/SearchResults.aspx?FeedbackType=0&Scope=0&SortOrder=5

    for this Microsoft website?   




    I'm assuming this post is to my comment about the font going small when a blank line is deleted.  (I don't know because I'm using the Time View) and can't find a way to switch to Hierarchy View without going into my profile settings and globally change it.)  That's another thing that is lame.  It's too much work for a setting that changes often.

    Anyway, what is missing is these forums don't even pass a basic usability test, so it is hopeless to try to document everything wrong with it.  If the dev team doesn't know by using the forums themselves for even a couple hours, then all hope is gone anyway, and we shouldn't waste our time with Connect.

    Saturday, July 06, 2013 6:24 PM
  • This makes it hard to find new posts in a long thread. As far as I can tell, the only workaround is to explicitly subscribe (add an alert) to every new thread, so that I would receive email notifications (at which point, it's like a mailing list, only worse). I have not yet found a reasonable solution to this problem.

    There is My Threads, which I think is a fairly decent feature. (I've just started being active on SQL Server Central, and I've yet to find out how I track threads I've been active in.)

    True, My Threads only tracks threads you've posted in, and if there is a thread you want to lurk, it's difficult. For my part, that is not very common in forums of this kind.


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:02 PM
  • if there is a thread you want to lurk, it's difficult.

    Just add it to your Alerts and treat your Alerts as a variation of My Threads (with or without an E-mail).  Note that both are linked from the Quick Access dropdown list.

     



    Robert Aldwinckle
    ---

    Saturday, July 06, 2013 9:14 PM
  • I started a new WiKi article http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/18141.where-to-get-and-provide-support-besides-msdn.aspx

    This article is supposed to list many known programming forums with their pros/cons. I added only one forum to start from and I would appreciate if you add other forums there and what do you like / dislike about them.


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog


    My TechNet articles

    Sunday, July 07, 2013 7:45 PM
    Moderator
  • OK..it turns out that I provided a trivial example of what's "not vexing".  But what I asked is what is vexing, especially in the context of this thread.  

    In other words, what is it that the NNTP Bridge provided, composition-wise, that the older or newer Web interface does not provide.
    There was many times when I used the NNTP Bridge for less than trivially composed replies, that I was disappointed that I could not be more sophisticated.  So, I went to the Web interface instead and learned the basics of inserting code, links and formatted text.

    OK it turns out you don't know about NNTP and the concept behind the NNTP bridge. The NNTP bridge does nothig else than bidirectionally convert the forum content into NNTP content. The NNTP bridge isn't an editor or something, it's running in the back and you can't compare the features with a forum. Would be the same as comparing water with a car.

    If you are not familiar with NNTP readers like Agent, Thuderbird, Outlook Express or Windows Live Mail or what ever you don't know what we are talking about. All these NNTP editors are based on the NNTP protocol, means they allow to display postings and post/reply on NNTP servers. The editors are highly configurable what threads you see, are highlighted and how you answer/post. The NNTP bridge does nothing else than wrap the NNTP Server protocol around the hardly usable forums so the user can work in the familiar and high sophisicated NNTP editor he is used to. If you now want to compare the NNTP readers/editors with the Forums that the bridge encapsules into NNTP then you will understand that most of the features the regulars in the usenet are using and make the NNTP so successfully are just missing. And now MS doesn't allow the logon to the forums to the bridge anymore in the user context so it can't provide an NNTP access to the forums anymore.

    Furthermore you have to know that most (if not all) forums a few years ago have been located on NNTP servers. MS provided a good NNTP reader (Outlook Express). But with the successor (Live Mail) it got worse and then MS decided to not keep the usenet on the NNTP servers anymore and migrated the content of these servers into the forums as we have it now. That's where the NNTP bridge was created, with support of MS to allow NNTP users to continue their NNTP readers. And now they blocked the access or just turned it off by not providing the information Jochen need to logon to the servers with the bridge and killed the NNTP access without further notice. An ignorance that is hardly understandable.

    Henry

    Sunday, July 07, 2013 8:40 PM
  • Let's just call this what it is....

    Microsoft wants to drive EVERYONE to their "new and improved" forums interface. Period.

    The reasons you cite for discontinuing the bridge are - to put it frankly - B.S. There is NO way that the entire forums team would have NO idea how this would impact the NNTP bridge!! You're Microsoft for Christ's sake!! And why not have an actual developer provide the reasons and technical explanation so the community can decide whether or not the "excuse" holds water.

    And as far as your pie graph is concerned...really?!?!? So essentially you're just giving a big middle finger to those who use it or may want to use it.

    I plead with everyone and anyone - if someone can PLEASE find a way to access forums without having to use that craptacular web interface, I'm sure there would be legions of people forever grateful!!!

    Really really pissed with Microsoft right about now


    A. M. Robinson

    Monday, July 08, 2013 2:24 PM
  • If someone has time to test the new SO-Bridge, more informations here:

    http://stackapps.com/questions/4215/stackapp-nntp-bridge-for-accessing-stackexchange-forums-like-stackoverflow


    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)



    Monday, July 08, 2013 4:20 PM
  • To me stackoverflow doesn't work if I want to ask a complex question.

    Say, this is my latest example:

    http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17558617/datarow-column-and-string-value-comparison

    I am still left without a solution because I need to continue conversation and StackOverflow format doesn't let me. I made several searches already, found many helpful links on StackOverflow as well, but yet the problem is not resolved.

    I may attempt to ask this question in C# forum, but I don't have much faith into it either.


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog


    My TechNet articles


    Tuesday, July 09, 2013 11:34 PM
    Moderator
  • Naomi, your first question about how to compare non-string items was correctly answered.  Now you have another question about how to treat default values of "" and " " the same.  This is a separate question; ask this new question on StackOverflow.
    Wednesday, July 10, 2013 2:45 AM
  • Hi Erland,

    As I remember, there is an option in SQL Server Central to subscribe to the threads and topics. Check around for the settings until you find it.

    How do you like it there?


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog


    My TechNet articles

    Wednesday, July 10, 2013 3:03 PM
    Moderator
  • That's the thing - it's too hard to keep track and I have to ask more and more related questions as new questions. In the normal forum discussion I would just continue my conversation.

    That's what I don't like about SO - I get initial good response, but as new related questions appear, I am still left without a solution. I don't want to ask many questions on the same topic, I also have a risk of being down voted.


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog


    My TechNet articles

    Wednesday, July 10, 2013 3:07 PM
    Moderator
  • And actually, my question is a bit more complex than that. In the string we're passing to the method, all default values are passed as empty string. So, false for boolean will be passed as empty string, nothing for char columns with be passed as empty string, null for dates will be passed as empty string and 0 for numerical fields will also be passed as empty string.

    When I compare that string with the value in the column, I need to know when I am passing the actual new values and when empty string is the same as the 0, for example, in the numeric column.

    So, this is the real problem I am trying to solve. That SO topic helped me realize that, but now how should I ask the question to get the answer to this question?


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog


    My TechNet articles

    Wednesday, July 10, 2013 3:15 PM
    Moderator
  • It seems you asked the new question just fine just now!  :-)  I answered you on SO.

    (There I go again, deleting the line between paragraphs, and everything then becoming unusably small.)

    I actually prefer the SO way of forcing people to ask new questions because it forces them to admit they asked the wrong question before, and they can drop it and start over fresh.  It leads to a cleaner organization of solutions over time.  It's like a refactoring of questions and solutions, and leads to more reuse!  :-) 

    -- David

    Wednesday, July 10, 2013 3:47 PM
  • >>If someone has time to test the new SO-Bridge, you can download an pre-alpha Version here:<<

    I did, I'm happy with it ;-) It really helps alot to keep up with new posts and comments easily. Thumbs up!

    (Although for unknown reasons TB refuses to auto-mark posts as "read" - I have to mark the whole NG as read. But I don't really care too much about that.)


    Martin

    NO THEY ARE NOT EVIL, if you know what you are doing: Good or bad GPOs?
    And if IT bothers me - coke bottle design refreshment :))

    Restore the forum design - my user defined Cascading Style Sheet!

    Wednesday, July 10, 2013 4:17 PM

  • So, this is the real problem I am trying to solve. That SO topic helped me realize that, but now how should I ask the question to get the answer to this question?


    Naomi,

    On StackOverflow, I'd recommend just posting a new question.  Since the details are different, it'd be more appropriate as a new question there.

    If you try to edit your original question, you'll be very unlikely to get a quality response, as the older posts rarely get answered the same.

    This is partly why I constantly tell people that StackOverflow is not a replacement for the forums - StackOverflow is great if you have a very focused, specific question.  It's awful if you're not sure what you should be doing, and want general guidance, and need real discussion to get to where you should be and what you should be writing.  Programmers.Stackexchange.com is a bit better for that (another stack exchange site), as your question won't be closed immediately there if it's vague - but it doesn't seem to have the same quality of answerers...

    -Reed


    Reed Copsey, Jr. - http://reedcopsey.com - If a post answers your question, please click Mark As Answer on that post. If you find a post helpful, please click Vote as Helpful.

    Wednesday, July 10, 2013 4:24 PM
  • Thanks, Reed. I got a parallel discussion going in UniversalThread forum and Rob Jasinski who seems to be a great expert (and I worked with him personally a bit) solved this problem for me. I posted my (his mostly) solution in that question I asked.

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog


    My TechNet articles

    Wednesday, July 10, 2013 8:15 PM
    Moderator
  • Now, three weeks later, do you have a chart you can post of the increase or decrease of usage of these forums since three weeks ago?

    Friday, July 12, 2013 1:33 AM
  • You expect them to admit they have done wrong? Are you kiddin'?

    Martin

    NO THEY ARE NOT EVIL, if you know what you are doing: Good or bad GPOs?
    And if IT bothers me - coke bottle design refreshment :))

    Restore the forum design - my user defined Cascading Style Sheet!

    Friday, July 12, 2013 9:06 AM
  • The error message of the old MS NNTP Bridge looks different than before. Is there any change on the forums server?
    Sunday, July 14, 2013 4:29 AM
  • It actually looks like the authentication works again, but the bridge itself is down.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Sunday, July 14, 2013 3:04 PM
  • This is not an error in the bridge... the web-service displays an error page... which is not a valid reply for a web-service... (HTML instead of soap/xml).

    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)

    Sunday, July 14, 2013 7:20 PM
  • the web-service displays an error page...

    Let me guess.   A URL started from a "brand" needed to do a redirect and then gave you a totally useless:  /error/notfound#(e.g. deleting everything useful that might have been used to correct the redirection error.)  Try using other "brand" threads from your "My Threads" when it has the  MVPForum "brand" to see this.   ; \

     This error started after the recent fix for a supposedly related symptom.  It's an example of how fixing symptoms without doing a proper analysis of the underlying problem can just lead to worse symptoms.

      


    Robert Aldwinckle
    ---

    Monday, July 15, 2013 5:43 AM
  • It's certainly ironic that the first problem that killed the NNTP bridge, the authentication, has been resolved. Probably because that found out that the component they used for authentication was needed somewhere else, completely unrelated to the forums. (The component was taken out of service on June 17th, when a private site was replaced with a new one, and they thought that was the last one.)

    I had a session of the NNTP bridge running at work, and for a few days after June 17th I was able to use the bridge, but it stopped working on June 21th as recall. With the error message it displays now.

    Supposedly that could be fixed fairly easily - if Microsoft wanted to. But clearly they don't want to.

    And, there is all reason to expect that the fact that authentication works again is only a temporary thing.


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Monday, July 15, 2013 7:59 AM
  • I just found this thread after a long oddysee. I'm sorry, but the new MSDN forum is unusable for me. As is Technet or the private MVP forums. Not because of the layout (only), it's technical reasons. See below. I've been using Answers via web for several years now. I'm moderating there as well. Answers at least is usable and reasonably fast (and I would not switch to the bridge for Answers). MSDN is not anymore.

    The bridge has started working again as of today, but it cannot be used, because the format of the responses has also changed. So, it's not just the authentication that got switched off.  

    I posted this in feedback:

    I'm doing comments here because I can't simply not post a new thread. I don't see a button/link to post a new message anywhere. I can only reply.

    Many people have already expressed their concern/annoyment about the new layout. I don't need to add to that.

    However, apart from that there are serious usability issues that make it impossible for me to continue answering questions in this forum, so I have stopped that. (I mainly overlooked the German IE forum).

    I'm still using mostly IE8 and the forum is hellishly slow in IE8. It often becomes unresponsive and I also often get the message about a script running too long. The forum is simply not usable in this form.

    I used to use the NNTP bridge, but this was also discontinued as it seems. Although nobody announced it. What's the current stance on that? As of today the Answers bridge has suddenly started to work again, because somebody must have switched on the authentication service again. This may last only for a short time, I don't know. Of course, the authentication against MSDN/Technet works now as well. However, the format of the message responses that come back from the web service has changed significantly, so that the bridge has to fail on them. That shows that nobody really cared if the bridge would be able to handle the responses or not after the redesign. It's not just that the authentication was switched off. "bridgability" got simply killed.

    Unfortunately, I don't know if I may may be able to read any responses as showing this thread also takes a hell of a time or may not succeed at all.


    IEFAQ: http://iefaq.info

    Monday, July 15, 2013 11:51 AM
  • I'm doing comments here because I can't simply not post a new thread. I don't see a button/link to post a new message anywhere. I can only reply.

    The Ask a question button is at the top left in each page.   Perhaps you can see it if you switch off CSS?  E.g. press Alt-V y N  and do a find for Ask...

     

     I'm still using mostly IE8 and the forum is hellishly slow in IE8. It often becomes unresponsive and I also often get the message about a script running too long.

    It's a performance problem with IE which is still present in the new design.  Apparently something to do with finding and rendering the Avatars?...

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/f3f815f3-be62-487e-911c-ed6a7565cd3a/ies-slowness-with-long-threads-on-microsoft-forums#2ccc2a9d-ff6f-403f-beda-6e240a1a3bc8

    (Highest voted post in that thread or just search for the word singularity.)

    So for long threads, click Stop Script (perhaps several times) and switch to the thread's RSS view.   E.g. for this one:

    http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/reportabug/thread/a532e600-b7dc-4ab1-bfd4-fe4dda7b71f3?outputAs=rss

    Note that there would be two ways to do this once you got the script stopped.   Either click on the RSS feed button (which fortunately is rendered before the problem loop is entered) or just append  ?outputAs=rss  to the URL in the Address bar.  So, if you could see that the number of posts was over the number which could be rendered in a timely manner on your machine instead of opening it you could use right-click Copy Shortcut and modify it into an RSS display one instead.   Or use a different browser than IE.  Note that the same problem still exists in IE11.

     
    FYI

     



    Robert Aldwinckle
    ---

    Monday, July 15, 2013 2:35 PM
  • This is not an error in the bridge... the web-service displays an error page...
    If we forget that fact that this is not a valid response: what does the error page say? Just curious.

    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Monday, July 15, 2013 7:53 PM
  • The first 1024 bytes are:

    <!DOCTYPE html> <html> <head> <title>Runtime Error</title> <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width" /> <style> body {font-family:"Verdana";font-weight:normal;font-size: .7em;color:black;} p {font-family:"Verdana";font-weight:normal;color:black;margin-top: -5px} b {font-family:"Verdana";font-weight:bold;color:black;margin-top: -5px} H1 { font-family:"Verdana";font-weight:normal;font-size:18pt;color:red } H2 { font-family:"Verdana";font-weight:normal;font-size:14pt;color:maroon } pre {font-family:"Consolas","Lucida Console",Monospace;font-size:11pt;margin:0;padding:0.5em;line-height:14pt} .marker {font-weight: bold; color: black;text-decoration: none;} .version {color: gray;} .error {margin-bottom: 10px;} .expandable { text-decoration:underline; font-weight:bold; color:navy; cursor:hand; } @media screen and (max-width: 639px) { pre { width: 440px; o".

    You can also check by yourself by openeing the link: http://services.social.microsoft.com/ForumsServicePreview/ForumsService.svc


    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)

    Tuesday, July 16, 2013 4:52 AM
  • You can also check by yourself by opening the link: http://services.social.microsoft.com/ForumsServicePreview/ForumsService.svc

    It's a zombie. You are visiting a graveyard where there are no explicit tombstones, just rude messages like this.

    Coincidentally I got this insight by waking up another one today (actually a modification of one which shows the same result with a clearer query.)

    http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?query=Favorites


    ---

    Trying to post via IE10 on W7 since IE11 on W8.1 would not Submit?



    Robert Aldwinckle
    ---


    Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:31 PM
  • You can also check by yourself by openeing the link: http://services.social.microsoft.com/ForumsServicePreview/ForumsService.svc

    OK, that is just a generic error message. Not very surprising, but I hoped that it would give some clue. I assume that it means that they have ripped out all the support for the bridge, why all you get is this. The error message about the incorrect content type started to appear on Friday 20th, so it seems that once they realised that the NNTP Bridge could not connect, they were trigger-happy to rip out all support, despite that Doug first seemed to indicate that they were willing to address the problem.


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

    Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:37 PM
  • I had a little hope when I've seen an annotation on some forms 2 days ago that they will update the forums and the system will be down for a while.

    Yes, something changed. Now I can't logon anymore again. Now I get an error:

    ---------------------------
    Community Forums NNTP Server
    ---------------------------
    xxxxxxxxx@outlook.com fail to log-on!
    Error Msg: Network error. Please check the network connection and try again.
    Error Code: 0x80048820
    Error Detail: PPCRL_REQUEST_E_AUTH_SERVER_ERROR
    Extend Error Code: 0x80048406

    ---------------------------
    OK   
    ---------------------------

    But I can logon on the same machine to my microsoft account. seems they deactivated the login feature again...

    Getting really hopeless now that somebody at MS cares about us

    Henry


    Thursday, July 18, 2013 2:35 AM
  • Keep protesting. Recover NNTP Bridge access, please.

    浪荡少年薄青衫,同游知己影成三;到底难言心中事,只求玉女结良缘。

    Monday, July 22, 2013 3:35 AM
  • Well, they've combined the timing of dropping the bridge with making the use of the Answers forums exponentially more cumbersome.  It makes me wonder if this is a deliberate attempt to reduce outside expert activity on all of their forums.

    Add mine to the protest list.


    Ron

    Monday, July 22, 2013 10:02 AM
  • bury nntp.

    rip at least.

    Monday, July 22, 2013 10:08 AM
  • a deliberate attempt to reduce outside expert activity on all of their forums.

    I was wondering that too.  A precursor to monetizing support using only their paid help.

    Notice also that the searches are worse?   That was another big advantage of the bridge, being able to find (easily) cached copies of stuff that you knew you had seen.

     



    Robert Aldwinckle
    ---

    Monday, July 22, 2013 4:35 PM
  • A local cache of messages was a huge benefit of the NNTP Bridge.   Microsoft really has no idea the magnitude of the impact of denying support for the NNTP Bridge.    I'm not a MVP but I always imagined that MVP's have special access to the people at Microsoft that manage these resources.  I was just going to be patient until they did their thing and got Microsoft management support for re-establishing the NNTP Bridge.   I'm beginning to feel that being an MVP may not impart the special privileges I thought it did. 
    Monday, July 22, 2013 4:57 PM
  • Still pretty flat two weeks later.
    Thursday, August 08, 2013 9:09 PM
  • I have discovered that you can request an RSS feed of a forum's topics that creates an RSS message of activity in that forum.  I use Thunderbird as my RSS reader and can easily create an email alert for a thread after using the link in the RSS feed message to access the webpage for a thread.   Works pretty good for me.

    Saturday, August 17, 2013 3:43 PM
  • I have discovered that you can request an RSS feed of a forum's topics that creates an RSS message of activity in that forum.  I use Thunderbird as my RSS reader and can easily create an email alert for a thread after using the link in the RSS feed message to access the webpage for a thread.   Works pretty good for me.

    AFAIK, an RSS message is not generated by a new reply, only for a new original post.

    IMHO, this severely limits the usefulness of the RSS feed.


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Saturday, August 17, 2013 3:58 PM
  • The RSS feed is good enough for new posts.  The e-mail notifications take care of the replies.  The combination is workable.  Perhaps the RSS feed would not be as useful if it were cluttered with replies to threads you don't care about?

    -- David

    Saturday, August 17, 2013 4:12 PM
  • The RSS feed is good enough for new posts.  The e-mail notifications take care of the replies.  The combination is workable.  Perhaps the RSS feed would not be as useful if it were cluttered with replies to threads you don't care about?

    It only need one line for each thread, like

    Last reply <date/time> by <author>

    right under the date of the original post in the current RSS output.


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Saturday, August 17, 2013 4:54 PM
  • Oh, I see what you mean.  Another of my feeds uses those additional lines, one for each comment to the post.  That is useful, since you can read the replies in the RSS reader.  Still, you can do that with the e-mails.

    -- David

    Saturday, August 17, 2013 5:04 PM
  • I'm getting a mixed experience of original posts and replies in my RSS feeds.

    I almost always turn on the email alerts for threads I'm interested in, so I don't mind it that not every reply shows up in the RSS feed.

    Saturday, August 17, 2013 5:16 PM
  • If you go into your Settings, you can set it so you always get email alerts for threads you reply to, so you don't have to worry about checking the box every reply.
    Saturday, August 17, 2013 5:39 PM
  • The RSS feed is good enough for new posts.

    It's actually better than that, especially if you turn off the Feed reading view (via Options, Content tab, Feeds and Webslices) and have a way of using the XML better (e.g. Powershell if nothing else).   For example, you can find in threads which have replies both a pubdate and an a10:updated element in it.   Then you could sort them by the latter (instead of the former as is less helpfully the case now).  However, somehow the Feed reading view keeps track of what we have seen, so as long as you look at it periodically the viewed sort order may not be as important.  Otherwise I wonder if it would be possible to write some custom XSLT which would do the desired sort with less manual effort?   ; )

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms950734.aspx

    (Microsoft search for
        xslt sort

    BTW this thread is so unwieldy for IE that I was unable to post this from W8 IE11.  So I saved it and have switched to W7sp1 IE11 to try my luck here...

     



    Robert Aldwinckle
    ---

    Sunday, August 18, 2013 1:48 AM
  • Oh, I see what you mean.  Another of my feeds uses those additional lines, one for each comment to the post.  That is useful, since you can read the replies in the RSS reader.  Still, you can do that with the e-mails.

    That might be good, but for me the addition of one extra "Last reply" line would be enough. For me, the main problem is that unless a new reply causes a change to the sort order, the content of the RSS feed does not change.

    Since the NNTP bridge is surely a dead horse (for reasons which I still do not think have been satisfactorily explained) perhaps we MVP's should re-focus our energies on modifying the RSS feeds to make them more useful.

    Personally, I do not care for receiving individual alert emails for each and every thread I have contributed to. For me, monitoring My Threads performs this function quite well.


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Sunday, August 18, 2013 11:04 AM
  • ... 

    ...  perhaps we MVP's should re-focus our energies on modifying the RSS feeds to make them more useful.

    ...

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    What is the role of MVPs in that effort?  Do you have channels of communications to MSFT that are available only to MVPs ?

    Sunday, August 18, 2013 5:25 PM
  • MVP's as a group do not.  Isn't that obvious with the demise of the bridge?  :-)  Actually, it wasn't the bridge specifically that was shut down.  It was the web service (or more succinctly, the authorization to the web service) that was shut down.  This renders not only the bridge inoperable, but all other tools which could have been written that had access to the same data... like the RSS feed that is now being discussed.  So we are now relying on whatever MS sees fit to publish, in whatever formats it wants... whether or not that is ultimately useful for us.

    Perhaps some MVP's as individuals do have their personal contacts.  Myself, I don't.  

    -- David

    Sunday, August 18, 2013 5:32 PM
  • For me, the main problem is that unless a new reply causes a change to the sort order, the content of the RSS feed does not change.

    But that is what I don't want -- I don't want the topic to be highlighted and resorted back to the top when a reply comes in.  (My RSS Reader does not do this, so maybe it is a configurable option.)  This is because I ignore more threads than I participate in and don't want new threads to be distracted by the re-emergence to prominance of previously ignored threads that now have new replies.

    BTW, this was elegantly taken care by my newsreader -- it bolded threads with new replies but kept them in the same order so I knew they weren't new.

    Thanks,
    David

    Sunday, August 18, 2013 7:12 PM
  • I'll try to get a better grasp of what it means to be an MVP.   It is an award that I have always heard about (usually in a person's email signature) but never knew exactly what it conveys.   Reading

    http://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/overview.aspx

    http://www.mvps.org/

    http://www.mvps.org/about/

    http://www.2013mvpsummit.com/about

    is a start.  


    • Edited by Larry Weiss Sunday, August 18, 2013 10:22 PM extended content
    Sunday, August 18, 2013 10:17 PM
  • For me, the main problem is that unless a new reply causes a change to the sort order, the content of the RSS feed does not change.

    But that is what I don't want -- I don't want the topic to be highlighted and resorted back to the top when a reply comes in.  (My RSS Reader does not do this, so maybe it is a configurable option.)  This is because I ignore more threads than I participate in and don't want new threads to be distracted by the re-emergence to prominance of previously ignored threads that now have new replies.

    I am just talking about the ordering of the posts in the feed itself. if you look at, for example

    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vcgeneral/threads?outputAs=rss

    in your browser, the threads are ordered (I think) by latest post. If a reply is made to the thread at the top of the list, then the page does not change. If there were a "Last reply" line for each thread, then the page would change.


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Monday, August 19, 2013 10:04 AM
  • I have discovered that you can request an RSS feed of a forum's topics that creates an RSS message of activity in that forum.  I use Thunderbird as my RSS reader and can easily create an email alert for a thread after using the link in the RSS feed message to access the webpage for a thread.   Works pretty good for me.

    I wouldn't relay on the RSS feed. You never know how long this feature still looks "modern" in the eyes of the responsibles. Maybe they got the impression already it being outdated and legacy already and the RSS feeds will disapear, too.

    Just let's hope they don't kill the alert-feature.

    Just my 5¢

    Henry

    Monday, August 19, 2013 10:20 AM
  • Just let's hope they don't kill the alert-feature.

    If they do, they can also bury the forums as their news server. ;)

    Winfried


    Servus Winfried

    Monday, August 19, 2013 10:26 AM
  • MS has done what they want and will continue to do so.  I've invested my entire 35 year career on their products so I'm hanging on to the boat as long as it's going forward.  No sense jumping out while the boat is still heading forward, even if the ride isn't so nice anymore.

    Thanks,
    David

    Monday, August 19, 2013 2:00 PM
  • I am just talking about the ordering of the posts in the feed itself. if you look at, for example

    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vcgeneral/threads?outputAs=rss

    in your browser, the threads are ordered (I think) by latest post.

    That is what I showed in my post is false.  But it depends on how you view it, the XML source, the IE Feed Reader View sorted by Date, or something else?  A difficulty with trying to sort by A10:updated is that posts which had no replies would only have a pubdate.  Can an XSLT Sort deal with that?

    This has made me revisit some other proof of concept I did a while ago

    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/feedback/forum/suggest/in-our-profile-view-what-does-the-my-questions-tab/26f64de3-3d30-4635-8221-81b5aceac03b?page=2

    So, here's proof, using your link as my $rss source

    PS C:\> select-xml -Content $rss -XPath "//item" | select-object -ExpandProperty Node | ft pubdate, updated
    
    pubDate                                                     updated
    -------                                                     -------
    Thu, 15 Aug 2013 20:04:20 Z                                 2013-08-19T13:53:54Z
    Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:21:10 Z                                 2013-08-19T13:43:22Z
    Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:53:12 Z                                 2013-08-18T13:47:51Z
    Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:32:50 Z                                 2013-08-16T08:03:14Z
    Fri, 16 Aug 2013 22:28:15 Z                                 2013-08-19T13:40:16Z
    Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:28:52 Z                                 2013-08-19T12:51:18Z
    Sun, 18 Aug 2013 19:38:42 Z                                 2013-08-19T12:07:14Z
    Mon, 19 Aug 2013 09:45:43 Z                                 2013-08-19T09:45:43Z
    Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:21:21 Z                                 2013-08-16T06:10:28Z
    Mon, 19 Aug 2013 10:12:41 Z                                 2013-08-19T10:12:41Z
    Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:35:38 Z                                 2013-08-19T09:47:19Z
    Tue, 13 Aug 2013 21:21:15 Z                                 2013-08-19T09:18:19Z
    Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:10:05 Z                                 2013-08-16T15:10:05Z
    Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:08:46 Z                                 2013-08-19T02:51:34Z
    Mon, 19 Aug 2013 07:00:49 Z                                 2013-08-19T07:00:49Z
    Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:56:56 Z                                 2013-08-17T20:56:56Z
    Mon, 19 Aug 2013 03:27:34 Z                                 2013-08-19T05:58:32Z
    Sun, 18 Aug 2013 11:56:29 Z                                 2013-08-19T10:02:35Z
    Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:37:42 Z                                 2013-08-19T04:28:09Z
    Fri, 02 Aug 2013 17:17:11 Z                                 2013-08-19T02:15:17Z
    

    I suppose it would be more impressive if the date format was consistent but this was Q&D.   <eg>

    FYI
     



    Robert Aldwinckle
    ---

    Monday, August 19, 2013 3:26 PM
  • A difficulty with trying to sort by A10:updated is that posts which had no replies would only have a pubdate.  Can an XSLT Sort deal with that?

    Try something like <sort select="updated | pubdate"> (with proper namespace prefixes, of course). '|' is nodeset concatenation operator, and select= only looks at the first node in the nodeset, so the expression is effectively "updated if present, otherwise pubdate".

    Igor Tandetnik

    Monday, August 19, 2013 5:06 PM
  • I am just talking about the ordering of the posts in the feed itself. if you look at, for example

    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vcgeneral/threads?outputAs=rss

    in your browser, the threads are ordered (I think) by latest post.

    That is what I showed in my post is false.

    I'm not quite sure what you mean here. If I open a single forum and order by date, and quickly open the RSS feed for the same forum in the browser, then the ordering of the posts is the same on both pages, and is the same as the order of the items in the xml source of the feed.

    If this is different from the <a10:updated> order then something strange is going on.


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Monday, August 19, 2013 6:33 PM
  • Can't add this where it should go?

    A difficulty with trying to sort by A10:updated is that posts which had no replies would only have a pubdate.  Can an XSLT Sort deal with that?

    Try something like <sort select="updated | pubdate"> (with proper namespace prefixes, of course). '|' is nodeset concatenation operator, and select= only looks at the first node in the nodeset, so the expression is effectively "updated if present, otherwise pubdate".

    Igor Tandetnik

    Thanks Igor.  That looks useful and good to know.

    In fact, my assumption turns out to be incorrect.  I have been trying to post a correction but this thread is impossible for IE to use.   Let's see if I can add my correction here instead:

    Edit:   Looking more closely, apparently I had an incorrect assumption about updated.  It always exists, e.g. on an opening post with no replies, the updated timestamp = the pubdate.  That helps a lot.  However, there is another weird case in there where that relation is true but there were a few replies too.

    And to save the aggravation of trying to make another comment I'll add:

    Obviously the actual XML is unsorted for some reason.  I wonder if we have the source for the Feed Reader View and if it would reveal what sort it actually tries to provide?

    In any case, I have found another problem with the RSS source:

    PS C:\> select-xml -Content $rss -XPath "//item" | select -ExpandProperty Node | where {$_.title -match "Difficult"} | ft pubdate, updated

    pubDate                                                                    updated                                                                 
    -------                                                                    -------                                                                 
    Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:14:35 Z                                                2009-07-13T02:33:30Z                                                    

    So we have to go to the actual thread to see why that one was included in the feed at all!

    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/7b1d925b-1b7a-4311-8b32-11c1c34d376b/difficult-to-access-the-serial-com-port

    Crossing fingers and toes that this Submit will work...



    Robert Aldwinckle
    ---

    Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:00 PM
  • Hopefully some of the bridge users that have left the forums will have set a notification on this thread and will see this.

    The bridge is coming back:

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/ff27030d-1d8b-4b6f-9c89-817d9a6d8951/regarding-the-restoration-of-the-nntp-bridge?forum=announce

    If not, oh well, I tried.


    Don't retire TechNet! - (Maybe there's still a chance for hope, over 12,225+ strong and growing)

    Monday, October 21, 2013 11:50 PM
    Moderator
  • HOORAY!!

    Ron

    Tuesday, October 22, 2013 12:13 AM
  • Hopefully some of the bridge users that have left the forums will have set a notification on this thread and will see this.

    The bridge is coming back:

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/ff27030d-1d8b-4b6f-9c89-817d9a6d8951/regarding-the-restoration-of-the-nntp-bridge?forum=announce

    Users they left will be hard to bring back, but the NNTP Bridge can be a reason. :)


    Servus
    Winfried

    GPOs: http://www.gruppenrichtlinien.de/
    WSUS Package Publisher: http://wsuspackagepublisher.codeplex.com/

    Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:57 AM
  • Maybe, when it's back and working, those of us who'll be using the bridge & NNTP reader should include a link to it in our sigs to publicise the fact so that others reading the forums will get to know of it?
    Tuesday, October 22, 2013 7:08 AM
  • Hopefully some of the bridge users that have left the forums will have set a notification on this thread and will see this.

    The bridge is coming back:

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/ff27030d-1d8b-4b6f-9c89-817d9a6d8951/regarding-the-restoration-of-the-nntp-bridge?forum=announce

    If not, oh well, I tried.


    Don't retire TechNet! - (Maybe there's still a chance for hope, over 12,225+ strong and growing)

    It worked! - thanks for the heads-up :)


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    No - I do not work for Microsoft, or any of its contractors.

    Tuesday, October 22, 2013 8:21 AM
    Answerer
  • Hopefully some of the bridge users that have left the forums will have set a notification on this thread and will see this.

    The bridge is coming back:

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/ff27030d-1d8b-4b6f-9c89-817d9a6d8951/regarding-the-restoration-of-the-nntp-bridge?forum=announce

    If not, oh well, I tried.


    Don't retire TechNet! - (Maybe there's still a chance for hope, over 12,225+ strong and growing)

    It worked! - thanks for the heads-up :)


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    No - I do not work for Microsoft, or any of its contractors.

    Please advise, where can I get the new working NNTP bridge?
    Saturday, October 26, 2013 11:23 PM
  • Please advise, where can I get the new working NNTP bridge?
    It's not ready yet. Why it is taking so long, I do not know.

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Monday, October 28, 2013 11:05 AM
  • Here's the announcement thread for getting the bridge working again:

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/2c6ee8db-fad1-4cb4-bf3c-c7a7e371a91d/how-to-get-nntp-bridge-working?forum=reportabug

    One word of caution for any person who has HTML in their signature - clicking Save in My Settings will break your signature if you don't fix the tags first.


    Don't retire TechNet! - (Maybe there's still a chance for hope, over 12,225+ strong and growing)

    Tuesday, October 29, 2013 5:37 PM
    Moderator
  • The Bridge is now working. As mentioned in the announcement post, make sure you click "save changes" even if you already have the "Use NNTP Bridge" already selected. 

    Forums Program Manager

    Tuesday, October 29, 2013 6:48 PM
    Administrator
  • The Bridge is now working. As mentioned in the announcement post, make sure you click "save changes" even if you already have the "Use NNTP Bridge" already selected.

    Is this Jochen Kalmbach's Community Bridge, or the original Microsoft version?

    Could we start a new thread on the NNTP bridge? This one has so many replies that it takes forever to load, and the announcement post will not accept replies.


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:00 PM
  • I tried Jochen's bridge and it still isn't working here...


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:13 PM
  • There is another thread started HERE regarding getting the Bridge working. I will be adding more details shortly. Make sure you have downloaded the updated version.  

    Forums Program Manager

    Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:51 PM
    Administrator
  • It would be nice, if you had informed me that the bridge will work again.. Also there is currently no precomiled-download available, because you still missed to sent me the ClientId for the authentication...

    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)

    Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:01 PM
  • The new release can be found here:

    https://communitybridge.codeplex.com/releases/


    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC&#43;&#43;)

    Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:39 PM
  • Thank you Jochen! 

    Forums Program Manager

    Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:43 PM
    Administrator
  • Back on the MSDN Forums - and using the NNTP bridge! Life is good!


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se
    Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:09 PM
  • Something isn't working for me.  I am using Agent, W7x64, and I disabled my AntiVirus (Avast) temporarily

    I installed V 1.1.54.0 and ran Agent as before.

    I get the below message from Agent.  Any thoughts?

    Error reported by server: 503 program fault - command not performed System.ServiceModel.FaultException: Passport Header Not Found.


    Ron

    Sunday, November 03, 2013 12:19 PM
  • Something isn't working for me.  I am using Agent, W7x64, and I disabled my AntiVirus (Avast) temporarily

    I installed V 1.1.54.0 and ran Agent as before.

    I get the below message from Agent.  Any thoughts?

    Error reported by server: 503 program fault - command not performed System.ServiceModel.FaultException: Passport Header Not Found.

    This Passport Header Not Found is happening to most of us. See the new thread on the NNTP bridge:

    http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/2c6ee8db-fad1-4cb4-bf3c-c7a7e371a91d/how-to-get-nntp-bridge-working?forum=reportabug


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP

    Sunday, November 03, 2013 2:47 PM
  • Something isn't working for me.  I am using Agent, W7x64, and I disabled my AntiVirus (Avast) temporarily

    I installed V 1.1.54.0 and ran Agent as before.

    I get the below message from Agent.  Any thoughts?

    Error reported by server: 503 program fault - command not performed System.ServiceModel.FaultException: Passport Header Not Found.

    Did you go into My Settings and flipped the setting for Use the NNTP Bridge forth and back and saved?

    Once you have got through that obstacle, you will need to go the Bridge UI to press Stop and Start when you get this error everyonce in a while.


    Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se
    Sunday, November 03, 2013 2:50 PM
  • Thanks for the advice.  I think I've got it fixed, now.

    Ron

    Sunday, November 03, 2013 6:59 PM
  • See also: https://communitybridge.codeplex.com/workitem/11372

    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC++)

    Monday, November 04, 2013 11:25 AM
  • Hi all!

    There is a new REST based-web service which gives access to the MSDN forums. Based on this, I developed a NNTP-Bridge so you can access the forums with a normal newsreader.

    You can find the new project here: https://communitybridge3.codeplex.com/

    Be aware, that you have to enable NNTP access in your user profile!

    If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me, post here or post an issue on codeplex


    Jochen Kalmbach (MVP VC&#43;&#43;)

    Monday, December 29, 2014 1:18 PM
  • Monday, December 29, 2014 2:02 PM
    Moderator