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Storage requirements for Hyper-V (SMB and Midrange)

    General discussion

  • Hi!

    Can you share your storage selection experience for Hyper-V?

    I'm interested in SMB and Midrange segments, from 2-4 hosts to 10-40 hosts (1-2 racks).

    - vendor and model and why?

    - what functionality do you require (tiering, flash-cache, replication, snapshots, deduplication, compression)?

    - SAN/NAS (FC, iSCSI, SAS, SMB)?

    - drive types: HDD, hybrid SSD+HDD, all-flash?

    Monday, March 06, 2017 8:48 AM

All replies

  • If you are going to build a new solution I would defiantly go for a Storage Spaces Direct system running SMB with your preferred certified hardware vendor.

    Depending on your performance requirements you should go with tiered model, SSD and HHD + NVME cache.

    For more info

    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-au/windows-server-docs/storage/storage-spaces/storage-spaces-direct-overview


    Andreas Sobczyk CloudMechanic.net

    Monday, March 06, 2017 11:41 AM
  • I know this feature. Do you have S2D experience in production? Is S2D better then traditional brand storage (HPE, Dell EMC...) or brand?


    • Edited by yahonts Tuesday, March 07, 2017 5:34 AM
    Monday, March 06, 2017 12:46 PM
  • I'm interested in SMB and Midrange segments, from 2-4 hosts to 10-40 hosts (1-2 racks).

    Hi,

    i agree with Andreas, you can deploy S2D as a hyper-converged solution (starting from 2-Nodes) or in a disagregated layout with SoFS. For a little bit deeper dive into pooling, take a look here:

    https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/filecab/2016/11/21/deep-dive-pool-in-spaces-direct/

    Regards,
    Marcel


    https://www.windowspro.de/marcel-kueppers

    I write here only in private interest

    Disclaimer: This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties or guarantees, and confers no rights.

    Monday, March 06, 2017 1:06 PM
  • Hi Yahonts,

    Yes S2D is an option for you! There are 2 available deployments methods for virtualized workloads, Hyperconverged ( Hyper-V and S2D in the same Host ) and Disaggregated (SoFS).

    Things to consider.

    1. In an S2D cluster you start from 2 nodes and scale out to 16 nodes.

    2. Each node that will be used or later added to the cluster should be identical to others.

    3. Can't scale up only one node at a time, all of them should be scale up.

    4. Invest in your Network Fabric, RDMA capable ( Minimum 10GB Nics and Switches ). Needed by the so called East-West Traffic, the intranode communication.

    5. The resulted solution can't be used as a traditional SAN / iScsi Storage, meaning that can only be used with Workloads such as Hyper-V, SQL and SoFS.

    6. Most important of all, LICENSING! Available with Datacenter Edition only

    7. You should adjust to the new way of how to operate and maintaining a Hyperconverged Infra. You can't just shutdown half of the cluster for maintenance anymore as you used to in the past...

    8. You should familiarize ur self with Powershell in order to maintain and operate an S2D infra. You can always purchase GUI Tools such as Systems Center Virtual Machine Manager 2016 if you are not familiarized with Powershell and need the classic GUI.

    Other options such as traditional SAN storages can be the following.

    DELL COMPELLENT (8000 SERIES) 

    HP 3PAR (8200)

    NETAPP (FAS8200)

    HITACHI (USPV)

    Nevertheless you should somehow calculate the current and future needs in IOPS and Capacity in order to decide which Storage Solution suits you best.

    Tx!



    Monday, March 06, 2017 1:18 PM
  • 6. Most important of all, LICENSING! Available with Datacenter Edition only

    If you really want to virtualize your Datacenter, you need a Datacenter! From this Point of stand: S2D comes out-of the box ;)

    https://www.windowspro.de/marcel-kueppers

    I write here only in private interest

    Disclaimer: This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties or guarantees, and confers no rights.

    Monday, March 06, 2017 1:24 PM
  • I know this feature? Do you have S2D experience in production? Is S2D better then traditional brand storage (HPE, Dell EMC...) or brand?

    Well define what is better than what? :)

    But with traditional storage you get also the traditional pains from iSCSI and FC.

    S2D is build with the specific purpose to be storage backend for Hyper-V and is fully software defined. You will usually also get more IOPS for the money with S2D compare to traditional SANs.


    Andreas Sobczyk CloudMechanic.net

    Monday, March 06, 2017 1:50 PM
  • I know this feature.

    "But with traditional storage you get also the traditional pains from iSCSI and FC." What pains for example?

    Tuesday, March 07, 2017 5:39 AM
  • There are many Arguments for S2D:

    - Using of standard certified Hardware
    - Knowing the Management Tools (FCM, Powershell, Scripting)
    - Reversal: No propriatary Software
    - You can pool also SATA Drives and design your Cache like you need
    - The possibilty to run in a hyper-converged box (Compute and Storage scale together)
    - Scaling general more simple
    - Using the power of SMB3 like SMB direct with RDMA
    - If you virtualize your workload, you need Datacenter and getting S2D out-of the box, no special Licenses
    - In addition: Storage Replica for DR

    If you do not recognize any advantages in S2D, run with your favorit concept of iSCSI or FC, look for Price/Performance and so on.

    bye,
    Marcel


    https://www.windowspro.de/marcel-kueppers

    I write here only in private interest

    Disclaimer: This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties or guarantees, and confers no rights.

    Tuesday, March 07, 2017 7:54 AM
  • Following Marcel's suggestions, Monitoring also is a thing to consider. Systems Center Operations Manager is a great solution for monitoring S2D.

    Tx!

    Tuesday, March 07, 2017 8:45 AM
  • Arguments for S2D are strong. 

    But. Does anybody test or use s2d in production? Is it stable? Is it as fast and resilient as MS state in description?

    Tuesday, March 07, 2017 11:21 AM
  • Does anybody test or use s2d in production? Is it stable? Is it as fast and resilient as MS state in description?

    Maybe this could help you:

    https://www.whatmatrix.com/blog/microsoft-storage-spaces-direct-s2d-how-does-it-compare/

    https://www.windowspro.de/marcel-kueppers

    I write here only in private interest

    Disclaimer: This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties or guarantees, and confers no rights.

    Tuesday, March 07, 2017 12:09 PM
  • Cautiousness on deploying something as new as S2D into production is a valid emotion.  It is new.  It also has a significant amount of promise.  The major hardware vendors are working on building out configurations they feel comfortable in marketing.  I would highly recommend that if you go the S2D route that you work with your preferred system vendor and purchase a solution they have validated against Microsoft's Windows Server Software Defined (WSSD) standard.  If you 'roll your own', that is, put together your own configuration based on components you think should work, you will not have a system that has been thoroughly tested and validated.  Microsoft's WSSD certification is a pretty significant shakedown of all components in a solution working together.  Eventually I believe you will be able to put together a S2D cluster from Windows-certified components, just like you do with a normal failover cluster today, but due to the newness of S2D, my recommendation is to stick with vendors' approved, i.e. proven, solutions.

    I am a big fan of this new technology.  However, because of the new stresses it puts onto the entire configuration, I suggest caution in its initial deployments.


    . : | : . : | : . tim

    Tuesday, March 07, 2017 2:26 PM
  • I would highly recommend that if you go the S2D route that you work with your preferred system vendor and purchase a solution they have validated against Microsoft's Windows Server Software Defined (WSSD) standard.  If you 'roll your own', that is, put together your own configuration based on components you think should work, you will not have a system that has been thoroughly tested and validated.

    Absolutely. Ack.

    https://www.windowspro.de/marcel-kueppers

    I write here only in private interest

    Disclaimer: This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties or guarantees, and confers no rights.

    Tuesday, March 07, 2017 2:34 PM
  • S2D is one of the options and probably not the most cost effective one. I would rather stick to good old SMB3 with SoFS instead of S2D. You can easily build such server by your own.

    If you need HA/FT you can take a look at HP VSA or StarWind Virtual SAN that will do the job for you and do not require expensive Datacenter licensing. StarWind also offers SMB3-capable storage ready-nodes https://www.starwindsoftware.com/starwind-storage-appliance which might probably be the best fit for you.

    Thursday, March 09, 2017 7:39 AM
  • Can you share your storage selection experience for Hyper-V?

    I'm interested in SMB and Midrange segments, from 2-4 hosts to 10-40 hosts (1-2 racks).

    - vendor and model and why?

    - what functionality do you require (tiering, flash-cache, replication, snapshots, deduplication, compression)?

    - SAN/NAS (FCiSCSISASSMB)?

    - drive types: HDD, hybrid SSD+HDDall-flash?

    We have discussed S2D, it was interesting and usefull, but generally off topic. Can anybode answer on the topic? Other vendors, functionality...
    Friday, March 10, 2017 10:45 AM
  • Take a detailed look around the DELL Equallogic series, in this case i have done good experience:

    http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/equallogic-ps-series

    Bye,
    Marcel


    https://www.windowspro.de/marcel-kueppers

    I write here only in private interest

    Disclaimer: This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties or guarantees, and confers no rights.

    Friday, March 10, 2017 11:02 AM
  • First of all I'm interesred in storage functionality required by customers.

    I make a resurch about problems and tasks related to storage in SMB and Midrange segments.

    I need to know what functions (tiering, flash-cache, replication, snapshots, clones, deduplication, compression, ODX) are in deman and what are not used.

    Friday, March 10, 2017 4:14 PM
  • It sounds like you are asking for marketing data. This is a technical forum designed to answer technical questions. If you want marketing data about how a product is deployed, you would be better served to hire a marketing company to perform a survey for you. Broad questions that cover a variety of markets and technologies are not appropriate for technical forums. If you have a specific question about configuring or using a specific technology, we are happy to help.

    . : | : . : | : . tim

    Friday, March 10, 2017 8:18 PM
  • It sounds like you are asking for marketing data. This is a technical forum designed to answer technical questions. If you want marketing data about how a product is deployed, you would be better served to hire a marketing company to perform a survey for you. Broad questions that cover a variety of markets and technologies are not appropriate for technical forums. If you have a specific question about configuring or using a specific technology, we are happy to help.

    . : | : . : | : . tim

    I make this research for my personal sсientific work. It's not for commercial.

    If you don't like it or if you have doubts, I will do without your answer.


    Monday, March 13, 2017 7:37 AM
  • Whether your goals are 'scientific' or 'commercial' (not necessarily mutually exclusive), the reason I answered the way I did was to try to clarify the purpose of the TechNet technical forums.  To gather the information you are requesting ("problems and tasks related to storage in SMB and Midrange segments") is not really a question that can be answered in these forums.  To answer that question properly would require a survey of questions relating to the specific things for which you want answers.  TechNet forums simply are not set up to handle such requests.  We are interested in ensuring you get the information you are looking for, but what you are looking for is beyond the scope of the TechNet forums.  Hence the suggestion to try a different method to obtain it rather than being frustrated by not getting what you are looking for here.

    . : | : . : | : . tim

    Monday, March 13, 2017 1:01 PM