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DPM 2012 sp1 and Hyper-V 2008R2 cluster, online VM backup? RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hi!

    I have DPM 2012 sp1 installed and trying to backup my Windows Server 2008R2 Hyper-V Cluster.

    Only one of my VM´s lists as "Backup Using Child Partition Snapshot"
    All other VM´s  lists as "Backup Using Saved State". Why is that?

    They are 2008 and 2008R2 guests. They all have tha backup option enabled in Hyper-V and Cluster manager.

    Please help. I need to have Online Backups...  

    Br
    Patrik



    Tuesday, February 12, 2013 3:44 PM

Answers

  • Hi,

    The Hyper-V writer on the hyper-V host communicates with the integration components inside the guest and determines if child partition or saved state backup will be performed.

    To get a real-time view of how then next backup will be performed, you can run the following test.

    To list hyper-V writer captions for guests to see if online or saved state backups can be done:

    From an administrative command prompt:

    a. Type: copy con script.txt and press enter
     b. Type: list writers and press enter
     c. Press CTRL + Z (to save)
     d. Type: diskshadow /s script.txt | find /i "caption: backup using"

    Output will be displayed for each guest.

    As per: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh757866.aspx

    Conditions when DPM fails to back up Hyper-V virtual machines in an online state

    By default, System Center 2012 – Data Protection Manager (DPM) performs a backup of a Hyper-V Virtual Machine (VM) in an online state. However, DPM cannot back up a Hyper-V VM in an online state, if one or more of the following conditions are true:
     Backup (Volume Snapshot) Integration Service is disabled or not installed.

     The virtual machine has one or more dynamic disks.
     The virtual machine has one or more non-NTFS based volumes.
     The virtual machine Cluster Resource Group in a cluster setup is offline.
     The virtual machine is not in a running state.
     A ShadowStorage assignment of a volume inside the virtual machine is explicitly set to a different volume other than itself.
     An App-V drive is installed on the virtual machine that creates a non-NTFS volume.

    These conditions are set by the Hyper-V writer. In such a case, the VM is put in a saved state before a snapshot of host volumes are taken (except when the VM is turned off) for a backup. The Hyper-V writer adds the VM in the following format:
     For offline backups: Backup Using Saved State\<VMName>

     For online backups: Backup Using Child Partition Snapshot\<VMName


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread. Regards, Mike J. [MSFT] This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

    Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:22 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • Hi,

    The Hyper-V writer on the hyper-V host communicates with the integration components inside the guest and determines if child partition or saved state backup will be performed.

    To get a real-time view of how then next backup will be performed, you can run the following test.

    To list hyper-V writer captions for guests to see if online or saved state backups can be done:

    From an administrative command prompt:

    a. Type: copy con script.txt and press enter
     b. Type: list writers and press enter
     c. Press CTRL + Z (to save)
     d. Type: diskshadow /s script.txt | find /i "caption: backup using"

    Output will be displayed for each guest.

    As per: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh757866.aspx

    Conditions when DPM fails to back up Hyper-V virtual machines in an online state

    By default, System Center 2012 – Data Protection Manager (DPM) performs a backup of a Hyper-V Virtual Machine (VM) in an online state. However, DPM cannot back up a Hyper-V VM in an online state, if one or more of the following conditions are true:
     Backup (Volume Snapshot) Integration Service is disabled or not installed.

     The virtual machine has one or more dynamic disks.
     The virtual machine has one or more non-NTFS based volumes.
     The virtual machine Cluster Resource Group in a cluster setup is offline.
     The virtual machine is not in a running state.
     A ShadowStorage assignment of a volume inside the virtual machine is explicitly set to a different volume other than itself.
     An App-V drive is installed on the virtual machine that creates a non-NTFS volume.

    These conditions are set by the Hyper-V writer. In such a case, the VM is put in a saved state before a snapshot of host volumes are taken (except when the VM is turned off) for a backup. The Hyper-V writer adds the VM in the following format:
     For offline backups: Backup Using Saved State\<VMName>

     For online backups: Backup Using Child Partition Snapshot\<VMName


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread. Regards, Mike J. [MSFT] This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

    Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:22 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi Mike!

    Thank you for your reply. How ever i can not find any of these conditions on my servers. This is imported servers from other Hyper-V environment.
    I did try converting a VHD-disk with Hyper-V manager. Edit disk and then convert from VHD to VHD. Replacing disk in Cluster manager and then starting VM again. In DPM clearing chache. But still the same problem.

    BUT, if i deploy new VM within Cluster manager and installing from 2008 r2.iso, applying Integration services and then create new protection group in DPM. The DPM server says this new VM is redy for Snapshot backup.

    The Vm i did try to convert is also Win 2008R2 SP1 and all windows updates. How do i proceed?
    I can not re-install all my VM´s.

    Br
    Patrik

    Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:00 AM
  • Hi,

    As per this output, DPM has NO control how a guest is backed up, it's up to Hyper-V writer, and is determined in real-time at the time of the snapshot.

    From an administrative command prompt:

    a. Type: copy con script.txt and press enter
     b. Type: list writers and press enter
     c. Press CTRL + Z (to save)
     d. Type: diskshadow /s script.txt | find /i "caption: backup using"

    Output will be displayed for each guest.


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread. Regards, Mike J. [MSFT] This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

    Wednesday, February 13, 2013 6:03 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi,

    As per this output, DPM has NO control how a guest is backed up, it's up to Hyper-V writer, and is determined in real-time at the time of the snapshot.

    From an administrative command prompt:

    a. Type: copy con script.txt and press enter
     b. Type: list writers and press enter
     c. Press CTRL + Z (to save)
     d. Type: diskshadow /s script.txt | find /i "caption: backup using"

    Output will be displayed for each guest.


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread. Regards, Mike J. [MSFT] This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

    Should i run this on Hyper-V server? or on DPM?

    When creating new protection group on DPm server, is listst the VM´s in the cluster and the type of backups supported. All my old VM´s thats been exported from other Hyper-V environment are listed att "Saved state Backup". But the new VM´s created are listed as "Backup using snapshot".

    Br
    Patrik

    Thursday, February 14, 2013 8:02 AM
  • Hi,

    It's the Hyper-V writer on the Hyper-V server that determines the backup type, so you run the commands on a hyper-v host. 


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread. Regards, Mike J. [MSFT] This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

    Thursday, February 14, 2013 5:18 PM
    Moderator
  • Mike;

    We have a three node cluster and I ran migrated our test machine to each one of the hosts.

    I then ran your commands from the admin command shell.

    Each host came back with, "Backup Using Saved State."

    I went through your list and the only one I'm not sure of is this. 

        The virtual machine Cluster Resource Group in a cluster setup is offline.

    None of the other ones apply so I'm not sure why it's only wanting to backup using the saved state.

    Thanks,
    Tom Lange

    Thursday, February 14, 2013 8:15 PM
  • Hi,

    You will need to work with the Windows Hyper-V support group, as noted, this is not a DPM issue.  It sounds to me like the integration components are faulty in the effected VM's.  I will move this thread to the Hyper-V forum. 


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread. Regards, Mike J. [MSFT] This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

    Thursday, February 14, 2013 8:31 PM
    Moderator
  • Mike;

    I know you're going to move this thread this I but just wanted to report that it seems to be something particular to the VM, as you guessed.

    I built a new Windows Server 2012 VM from scratch and now I get "backup using child partition snapshot."

    My original test VM was XP, which may have affected how the integration components were acting.

    Thanks,
    Tom

    Thursday, February 14, 2013 9:26 PM
  • Yes is is somthing wrong with the VM. And i need to figure it out. I need to make online backups not saved state.

    How can i figure this out? I already know they will run in "Saved state", i need to change so the VM´s run "Using Child partition snapshot".

    The integration services are installed just as on the newly installed VM. I can not find any difference between these VM´s.

    How do i check "The virtual machine Cluster Resource Group in a cluster setup is offline"  ?

    Br
    Patrik

    • Proposed as answer by AAConnect Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:01 PM
    • Unproposed as answer by AAConnect Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:02 PM
    Friday, February 15, 2013 7:54 AM
  • I have had this problem in the past and if I remember correctly, it has to do with the state that your VM was in the first time you performed a backup.  If it was 'off', then it will backup using 'Saved State' - if it was 'on' then it will backup using 'Child Partition Snapshot'.  If your first backup for the VM was done using 'Saved State', then even if you turn it on later, it will continue to backup in the same way thereafter.  Two possible solutions that I can propose:

    1) If possible, remove the machine from the backups.  Then switch it on and add it to the backups.  This time it should use 'Child Partition Snapshot'

    2) Make a change to the registry (haven't tried this personally, but read it on the internet somewhere).

    Hope that helps!


    • Edited by AAConnect Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:09 PM Typo
    Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:08 PM
  • I have had this problem in the past and if I remember correctly, it has to do with the state that your VM was in the first time you performed a backup.  If it was 'off', then it will backup using 'Saved State' - if it was 'on' then it will backup using 'Child Partition Snapshot'.  If your first backup for the VM was done using 'Saved State', then even if you turn it on later, it will continue to backup in the same way thereafter. 


    The above is not true, DPM uses the Caption from the hyper-V writer for the description of the VM when it is added to the protection group. That caption will either be "backup using child partition" or "backup using saved state". That description never changes in the DPM GUI, however the state in which the VM is backed up in can change from one backup to another depending on what changes inside the VM. The only way you can see the state the "next backup" will be is to get the hyper-V writer output and see what the caption says.

    To get a real-time view of how then next backup will be perfomed, you can run the following test for Windows 2008 R2 and Windows 2012 Hyper-v servers.

    To list hyper-V writer captions for guests to see if online or saved state backups can be done:

    From an administrative command prompt on Hyper-V host:

    a. Type: copy con script.txt and press enter
     b. Type: list writers and press enter
     c. Press CTRL + Z (to save)
     d. Type: diskshadow /s script.txt | find /i "caption: backup using"

    Output will be displayed for each guest.

    It is true that if the caption was "backup using saved state" at the time of protection and you fix the VM so it is capable of being backed up using child partition that if you want that change to be seen in the DPM UI, you will need to stop protection and re-protect so we can get the new caption from the writer. 


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread. Regards, Mike J. [MSFT] This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


    Friday, April 18, 2014 2:39 PM
    Moderator
  • to share my experience with similar situation:

    VM was up and running after cloning in VMM 2008.

    One of 2 VMs (the one clone was made from) had option to back up using snapshots. newer one only Saved State back up. After 3ple checking all the Mikes recommendations and manually revision of all the VSS writers/stores etc. on Host servers, migrations back and forth between nodes I have checked VMM for snapshots of that 2nd VM, and guess what there were several snapshots done by my colleague in-between configuration changes applied. so there may be simple solution to complicated DPM issue which is not related to DPM.

    regards.

    Mikhail.

    Thursday, August 20, 2015 8:41 AM