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Application server Vs WFE RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hi

    while installing Sharepoint server, it's required to add "IIS" and "Web application" roles and all servers in a farm must be the same.for example same service pack, same language pack and... So when you have a tree tier topology and 1 server in each tire , you have to have 3 identical servers with "IIS" and "Web application" roles which are configured.so what's the differnce bitween application server and WFE?I know we have to choose them by assigning roles but it's somehow confusing.

    2-moreover, which one is more important to assigne more resource(for better performance): WFE or application server?

    3-Is there any benchmark to compare the performnce?for example for 1000 user we can use 2-tier or 3-tier (Small-medium-large)farm.I want to know what the exact diffrence is bitween these methodes in performance?

    4-in these methodes what should we do for report servers?in which tire is it?is it a part of farm?if yes so we have to add some role to it.which roles?what happens if we use database server as report servert too?does it reduce performance?

    Monday, December 24, 2012 12:22 PM

Answers

  • Hi Sam,

    1.

    Yes, you are right all servers in the farm should be identical in terms of  service pack, CU and language pack. In project server farm what differentiate application server and web front end server is, the server which has running project application service. In your scenario if you have 3 servers in the farm, assuming 1 server is database server, if you keep project application service on one server that server will be considered as application server and if you terminate your FQDN URL on WFE server , which intern redirects application request to application server is considered as web front end server. Let us assume if you add one more server with project application service you will have 2 application servers, and if you add another server and enable load balancer to manage web traffic you will have 2 web front end servers.

    2.

    All servers are equally important depending on which parameter you are looking at. For example if you have planning how many users can connect, how many web request can be handled then web servers is the place you should be focusing at. If you are more concern about how project server application service is processing the jobs then application server and last be but not the least , depending on project application queue service configuration you need to configure database server which can handle the load , other wise you will end up with SQL transaction deadlock issues.

    3.

    Here is the link which can guide you to plan and define your hardware configuration depending on small, medium or large dataset.
    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh297440.aspx

    4. Either you can add another SQL Reporting server to the farm ( which will have SharePoint and project stuff installed just like web front end server but with SQL reporting services). Depending on type of reports, how many users, and  frequency of updating reports or real time reports , yes it may impact your Database server.

    Here the link for Configuring Reporting Services for SharePoint Server 2010

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb326356(v=SQL.105).aspx

     

    Hope this helps.

    Happy Holidays!!!

     


    Hrishi Deshpande – Senior Consultant DeltaBahn
    Blog | < | LinkedIn

    Please click Mark As Answer; if a post solves your problem or Vote As Helpful; if a post has been useful to you.This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.


    • Marked as answer by Sam-Net Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:09 AM
    • Unmarked as answer by Sam-Net Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:58 AM
    • Edited by Hrishi.DeshpandeModerator Tuesday, December 25, 2012 6:06 AM
    • Marked as answer by Sam-Net Tuesday, January 1, 2013 5:30 AM
    Monday, December 24, 2012 6:16 PM
    Moderator
  • I have corrected my earlier statement sorry about the typo error.

    "If you terminate your FQDN URL on a server , which intern redirects application request to application server is considered as web front end server"

    2. When project manager use PWA, Web Front end server will come in to the picture and when Project Professional is use PSI calls made to the database server using application server. Depending on your dataset you can either decide scale up (increasing capacity of existing server) or scale out (adding more servers)
    your farm.
    Please refer following article for more details about Project Server architecture

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff686786.aspx

    3. Yes, depending on your server role you need minor configuration change like if its application server then start Project application service, if WFE then configure your load balancer so that new server can be also included in  round robin response to network traffic.

    4. No, since there are multiple ways to deploy this solution, Microsoft has not published any good or bad numbers. When things are working as expected you need to capture the data using performance counters and analyze the data to prepare the benchmark .When things aren't working as expected taking another
    set and compare the result to identify the bottle neck. Apart from day to day windows server monitoring following article will help you to capture specific data 

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg715567(v=office.14).aspx

    5. a. You don't have to install SharePoint and Project Server on Database unless planning to integrate SQL reporting services on same server. 

    b. Since you have posted this question in project server forum I would talk about EPM perspective. For EPM deployment you don't need all services like Access database, word automation, performance point etc. Apart from SharePoint Foundation and SharePoint workflow service, you need Project Application service and optional services are Excel and Secure store if you are planning to use Business Intelligence reports.

    c. You can run Search and Query server on WFE if hardware configuration is sufficient enough to handle the load.


    Hrishi Deshpande – Senior Consultant DeltaBahn
    Blog | < | LinkedIn

    Please click Mark As Answer; if a post solves your problem or Vote As Helpful; if a post has been useful to you.This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.


    Tuesday, December 25, 2012 7:00 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi,

    "Yes, depending on your server role you need minor configuration change like if its application server then start Project application service, if WFE then configure your load balancer so that new server can be also included in  round robin response to network traffic."

    For load balancer it depends on which type of NLB you are using hardware or software and respective documentation can guide you to configure the same. Once NLB is configured you can configure alternate access mappings from SharePoint to use FQDN address like http://mycompnay.com/pwa  instead of NetBIOS http://servername/pwa . Please refer following link

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc261814%28office.12%29.aspx

    You don't need performance point service for project server as well. What do you mean by " functional role distribution"


    Hrishi Deshpande – Senior Consultant DeltaBahn
    Blog | < | LinkedIn

    Please click Mark As Answer; if a post solves your problem or Vote As Helpful; if a post has been useful to you.This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.


    Tuesday, December 25, 2012 8:59 PM
    Moderator
  • 1. You have appropriate services on WFE,  you don't have to install SharePoint and Project on database server. On You need to install SharePoint and Project Server on Reporting services and using link provided earlier in this thread configure to integrate with SharePoint

    2. Removing unnecessary service from the farm is helpful to manage the farm and also helps to improve the performance depending on which service we are stopping , if you have many services running on the same box and all of them are heavily used, definitely it will impact the performance and you may need to start thinking about scaling out your farm.

    3. for BI you don't need performance point service, you need Excel and Secure Store service


    Hrishi Deshpande – Senior Consultant DeltaBahn
    Blog | < | LinkedIn

    Please click Mark As Answer; if a post solves your problem or Vote As Helpful; if a post has been useful to you.This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.

    • Marked as answer by Sam-Net Tuesday, January 1, 2013 5:30 AM
    Thursday, December 27, 2012 6:18 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • Hi Sam,

    1.

    Yes, you are right all servers in the farm should be identical in terms of  service pack, CU and language pack. In project server farm what differentiate application server and web front end server is, the server which has running project application service. In your scenario if you have 3 servers in the farm, assuming 1 server is database server, if you keep project application service on one server that server will be considered as application server and if you terminate your FQDN URL on WFE server , which intern redirects application request to application server is considered as web front end server. Let us assume if you add one more server with project application service you will have 2 application servers, and if you add another server and enable load balancer to manage web traffic you will have 2 web front end servers.

    2.

    All servers are equally important depending on which parameter you are looking at. For example if you have planning how many users can connect, how many web request can be handled then web servers is the place you should be focusing at. If you are more concern about how project server application service is processing the jobs then application server and last be but not the least , depending on project application queue service configuration you need to configure database server which can handle the load , other wise you will end up with SQL transaction deadlock issues.

    3.

    Here is the link which can guide you to plan and define your hardware configuration depending on small, medium or large dataset.
    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh297440.aspx

    4. Either you can add another SQL Reporting server to the farm ( which will have SharePoint and project stuff installed just like web front end server but with SQL reporting services). Depending on type of reports, how many users, and  frequency of updating reports or real time reports , yes it may impact your Database server.

    Here the link for Configuring Reporting Services for SharePoint Server 2010

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb326356(v=SQL.105).aspx

     

    Hope this helps.

    Happy Holidays!!!

     


    Hrishi Deshpande – Senior Consultant DeltaBahn
    Blog | < | LinkedIn

    Please click Mark As Answer; if a post solves your problem or Vote As Helpful; if a post has been useful to you.This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.


    • Marked as answer by Sam-Net Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:09 AM
    • Unmarked as answer by Sam-Net Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:58 AM
    • Edited by Hrishi.DeshpandeModerator Tuesday, December 25, 2012 6:06 AM
    • Marked as answer by Sam-Net Tuesday, January 1, 2013 5:30 AM
    Monday, December 24, 2012 6:16 PM
    Moderator
  • Just to add the above excellent answer.

    1: You install all servers the same. What makes the SharePoint roles different, is what each server will be serving. Service applications(Search, User Profile, Project etc.) - Application server

    Web Requests - Web Front End

    Databases - Database Server

    2: It depends on how your SharePoint application is being used. If your running some heavy reports, your Report Server might be the one needing the most resources, if its a very active portal site, WFE.

    3: -

    4: Usually people want to run Reporting services in SharePoint integrated mode, which means it becomes an application server in the SharePoint farm. You can run other SharePoint applications as well as WFE on this server, as long as it can carry the load.

    • Marked as answer by Sam-Net Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:09 AM
    • Unmarked as answer by Sam-Net Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:58 AM
    Monday, December 24, 2012 10:39 PM
  • thanks for your quick reply.they were very helpful

    I still have some questions and appreciate in advance.

    1- what do you mean of FQDN?could you explain more? "if you terminate your FQDN URL on remaining server , which intern redirects application request to application server is considered as web front end server"

    2- all Project managers will use web application to control their projects nad user will fill their timesheets. so all users will work with Web application which sends users requests to application server.therefore both kind of server are importnat and they use portal to working with projects,now which one is more resource consuming?

    3- when I add either new WFE or new Application server, does it need any configuration for load balancing?

    4- I know all hardware architecture (small-medium-large).I meant is there any stress test data to compare with?

    5- this is my configuration for servers in farm, based on your explanation, I was almost wrong.could you help me about roles which I have to active or deavtice for all servers

    Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:45 AM
  • I have corrected my earlier statement sorry about the typo error.

    "If you terminate your FQDN URL on a server , which intern redirects application request to application server is considered as web front end server"

    2. When project manager use PWA, Web Front end server will come in to the picture and when Project Professional is use PSI calls made to the database server using application server. Depending on your dataset you can either decide scale up (increasing capacity of existing server) or scale out (adding more servers)
    your farm.
    Please refer following article for more details about Project Server architecture

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff686786.aspx

    3. Yes, depending on your server role you need minor configuration change like if its application server then start Project application service, if WFE then configure your load balancer so that new server can be also included in  round robin response to network traffic.

    4. No, since there are multiple ways to deploy this solution, Microsoft has not published any good or bad numbers. When things are working as expected you need to capture the data using performance counters and analyze the data to prepare the benchmark .When things aren't working as expected taking another
    set and compare the result to identify the bottle neck. Apart from day to day windows server monitoring following article will help you to capture specific data 

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg715567(v=office.14).aspx

    5. a. You don't have to install SharePoint and Project Server on Database unless planning to integrate SQL reporting services on same server. 

    b. Since you have posted this question in project server forum I would talk about EPM perspective. For EPM deployment you don't need all services like Access database, word automation, performance point etc. Apart from SharePoint Foundation and SharePoint workflow service, you need Project Application service and optional services are Excel and Secure store if you are planning to use Business Intelligence reports.

    c. You can run Search and Query server on WFE if hardware configuration is sufficient enough to handle the load.


    Hrishi Deshpande – Senior Consultant DeltaBahn
    Blog | < | LinkedIn

    Please click Mark As Answer; if a post solves your problem or Vote As Helpful; if a post has been useful to you.This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.


    Tuesday, December 25, 2012 7:00 AM
    Moderator
  • thanks a lot.

    1-where can I read more about "minor configuration " and "load balancer "

    2- is this a functional role distribution?

    Tuesday, December 25, 2012 10:53 AM
  • Hi,

    "Yes, depending on your server role you need minor configuration change like if its application server then start Project application service, if WFE then configure your load balancer so that new server can be also included in  round robin response to network traffic."

    For load balancer it depends on which type of NLB you are using hardware or software and respective documentation can guide you to configure the same. Once NLB is configured you can configure alternate access mappings from SharePoint to use FQDN address like http://mycompnay.com/pwa  instead of NetBIOS http://servername/pwa . Please refer following link

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc261814%28office.12%29.aspx

    You don't need performance point service for project server as well. What do you mean by " functional role distribution"


    Hrishi Deshpande – Senior Consultant DeltaBahn
    Blog | < | LinkedIn

    Please click Mark As Answer; if a post solves your problem or Vote As Helpful; if a post has been useful to you.This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.


    Tuesday, December 25, 2012 8:59 PM
    Moderator
  • "You don't need performance point service for project server as well. What do you mean by " functional role distribution"

    I mean which roles for each server is necessary to run a project server in a farm included 4 servers? I'm looking for minimum rols to run this farm

    Wednesday, December 26, 2012 10:19 AM
  • 4 or 3 ?

    For application Server same services as listed in your previous screenshot , excluding performance point service. PWA doesn't need that.


    Hrishi Deshpande – Senior Consultant DeltaBahn
    Blog | < | LinkedIn

    Please click Mark As Answer; if a post solves your problem or Vote As Helpful; if a post has been useful to you.This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.

    Wednesday, December 26, 2012 4:06 PM
    Moderator
  • what about WFE and Database server and Report Server(sharepoint integarted)?

    you told me Database server doesn't need any role.so apart from application server we have 2 servers WFE and Report server

    2- does it affect on performance to remove unnecesssary roles from servers?

    3- for BI in project server isn't necessary to have Performance point role?

    Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:43 AM
  • 1. You have appropriate services on WFE,  you don't have to install SharePoint and Project on database server. On You need to install SharePoint and Project Server on Reporting services and using link provided earlier in this thread configure to integrate with SharePoint

    2. Removing unnecessary service from the farm is helpful to manage the farm and also helps to improve the performance depending on which service we are stopping , if you have many services running on the same box and all of them are heavily used, definitely it will impact the performance and you may need to start thinking about scaling out your farm.

    3. for BI you don't need performance point service, you need Excel and Secure Store service


    Hrishi Deshpande – Senior Consultant DeltaBahn
    Blog | < | LinkedIn

    Please click Mark As Answer; if a post solves your problem or Vote As Helpful; if a post has been useful to you.This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.

    • Marked as answer by Sam-Net Tuesday, January 1, 2013 5:30 AM
    Thursday, December 27, 2012 6:18 PM
    Moderator
  • thanks Hirishi

    you were so helpful.

    unfortunately I have another thread which no one hasn't answered me yet

    could I have your opinion?

    "http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/projectserver2010general/thread/823e0154-74b6-4390-9ee0-21bb117ce5f3"

    Tuesday, January 1, 2013 5:43 AM
  • My pleasure. I have recorded my response to the next thread. Sorry , some how I missed that.


    Hrishi Deshpande – Senior Consultant DeltaBahn
    Blog | < | LinkedIn

    Please click Mark As Answer; if a post solves your problem or Vote As Helpful.This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.

    Tuesday, January 1, 2013 6:29 AM
    Moderator