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BPA in new Base OS MP RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hi,

    i just installed the new Base OS MPs including the new BPA MP. Now I'm getting the following alerts (warnings) for every server regarding the WSUS Server Role:

    Server Role:  Microsoft/Windows/WSUS
    ====================================
    Title      : The Windows Server Update Services Role should be installed
    Problem    : The Windows Server Update Services Role is not installed.
    Impact     : The WSUS Best Practices Analyzer scan will not run unless the WSUS Role is installed on the machine.
    Resolution : Install the WSUS Role through Server Manager.
    ------------

    Obviously we don't have WSUS installed on every single server, so why does the WSUS BPA Scan even run and then complain its not installed? i read through the documentation but didnt find any mention of this - overriding the monitor is also not possible on a role basis (i.e. disabling only the WSUS BPA).

    so has anyone seen the same behaviour and can drop some hints how to solve this?

    thanx in advance! :)


    update:

    the same applies to the ApplicationServer Role:

    Server Role:  Microsoft/Windows/ApplicationServer
    =================================================
    Title      : Application Server role
    Problem    : Application Server role is not enabled.
    Impact     : This server role must be enabled to host .NET Framework-based applications on this server.
    Resolution : Use Server Manager to enable the Application Server role.

    • Edited by scom_steve Monday, October 3, 2011 1:04 PM
    Monday, October 3, 2011 9:14 AM

Answers

  • IMHO, relying on perfection is a bug.  While there may be a problem in the server role setup that is falsely returning WSUS in more cases than it should, when a feature relies on absolute perfection in a distributed implementation it becomes very fragile.  this is a challenge with SCOM today in general - you all rely on MP's being perfect.  They are hard to make perfect, and when there are 90 teams building them, and each team is at different stages in learning and testing abilities, perfection becomes a liability.
    Microsoft Corporation
    • Marked as answer by Nicholas Li Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:12 AM
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 3:03 PM
  • New base-os mp just released. has the BPA monitor default disabled as I have mentioned before.
    http://www.bictt.com/blogs/bictt.php/2011/10/19/updated-version-of-the-updated

     


    Bob Cornelissen - BICTT (My BICTT Blog) - Microsoft Community Contributor 2011 Recipient
    • Proposed as answer by Nicholas Li Thursday, October 20, 2011 9:10 AM
    • Marked as answer by Nicholas Li Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:11 AM
    Wednesday, October 19, 2011 7:02 AM

All replies

  • This sounds like a bug in this MP.  Where did you get it?
    Microsoft Corporation
    Monday, October 3, 2011 4:11 PM
  • Ahh.  It hasn't been really released yet - somebody's ahead of us, but yes, we'll look at it.  May be a bug.
    Microsoft Corporation
    Monday, October 3, 2011 10:18 PM
  • Can you create a bug feedback on the connect site: https://connect.microsoft.com/OpsMgr/Feedback 


    There are more issues/bugs in this new MP release. We have already started a community action in order to get the bugs listed and have some quick fixes implemented: http://www.bictt.com/blogs/bictt.php/2011/10/04/asking-for-a-quick-fix  If you file this one as well I will add it to the list.


    Bob Cornelissen - BICTT (My BICTT Blog) - Microsoft Community Contributor 2011 Recipient
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 8:46 AM
  • Hi,

    I have importet the MP. How do I remove/uninstall? Right click and Delete? I will wait for a release with fewer bugs.


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 8:57 AM
  • depends.. if you have downloaded the whole mp locally and installed the mp than you will have about 5 mp's (two new ones for CSV and BPA monitoring). SO youc an try to remove all those and watch your dependencies!! (backup unsealedd mps first!). and first download the previous version of the mp from the net and extract those files locally so you can import them again (followed by dependent mps with overrides and such). moving back to previous versions is not easy in SCOM. We are hoping they will move ahead and start developing a quick new release.
    Bob Cornelissen - BICTT (My BICTT Blog) - Microsoft Community Contributor 2011 Recipient
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 9:02 AM
  • Hi Bob,

    Thanks. So instead of uninstall/delete the two new MP, I should wait for new relase?

     


    Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 9:08 AM
  • thanks for all the answers, unfortunately it looks like it's working as it should :/ i found this comment on Kevin's Blog:

    Kevin Holman

    3 Oct 2011 11:05 AM

    @ Azren -

    This new feature is all or nothing.  It simply runs the OS built in functionality for retuning ANY errors from the BPA.  In SCOM - you can either turn it on, or off.  I expect many customers will disable this and consider it noise, unless they have a commitment to run all servers in accordance with the BPA.

    so if thats true and the BPA is scanning for all roles, whether they are installed or not then this part of the MP is completely useless IMHO.


    • Edited by scom_steve Tuesday, October 4, 2011 9:14 AM
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 9:13 AM
  • Well, those two new ones are not the only thing.. those two are mps that did not exist before (and the bpa one creates a lot of noise out of the box), but the three base OS mp's that you had before also got updated! and those also have issues. Check the version. new mp version is 6.0.6957.0 .

    Up to you if you want to use the new mp and try to work-around the issues or if you want to wait for a new release. The only word we have heard yesterday was that there is no timeframe yet to solve the issues. But that was yesterday, we hope to convince the product group to update the new mp to a newer release with the bug fixes. Join us by voting on the connect bug we listed through http://www.bictt.com/blogs/bictt.php/2011/10/04/asking-for-a-quick-fix to get higher prio for this.


    Bob Cornelissen - BICTT (My BICTT Blog) - Microsoft Community Contributor 2011 Recipient
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 9:14 AM
  • well Steve, I think that the BPA should not give errors for any roles you have not installed on a machine. there is no single machine in the world with all roles installed :-)

    What is mainly meant in the comment from Kevin (I think) are the role specific errors that are displayed.. so for instance if you have a WSUS role installed and there is something wrong with it (or several entries).. than you can only turn the whole thing off to really get around those errors in your scom screen.

    If it gives errors on roles not installed than thats a bug in any case.


    Bob Cornelissen - BICTT (My BICTT Blog) - Microsoft Community Contributor 2011 Recipient
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 9:29 AM
  • agreed, but i think the problem lies within the BPA itself, not the MP. from my understanding the MP just fires the BPA, and the BPA itself reports these "issues"...the MP just picks up those warnings.

    so the question is: why does the BPA scan those missing roles? is it because of the way it is launched (via powershell from the scom agent) or is this some weird behaviour of the BPA itself? former could be fixed with an updated MP, the latter i'm not so sure...but what do i know? ;)


    • Edited by scom_steve Tuesday, October 4, 2011 10:49 AM
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 9:49 AM
  • >>why does the BPA alert those missing roles?

    one needs to debug Get-BPAModel cmdlet, as this cmdlet is the root cause of the issue, it returns not installed Server Roles

     

     

     

    PS C:\Users\Pavel_Dzemyantsau> Get-BPAModel
    
    Id                                                                LastScanTime
    --                                                                 ------------
    Microsoft/Windows/ApplicationServer         10/3/2011 9:56:55 PM
    Microsoft/Windows/Hyper-V                        10/3/2011 9:57:06 PM
    Microsoft/Windows/TerminalServices          10/3/2011 9:57:19 PM
    Microsoft/Windows/WSUS                           10/4/2011 1:33:58 PM
    
    


     


    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 10:35 AM
  • >>why does the BPA alert those missing roles?

    one needs to debug Get-BPAModel cmdlet, as this cmdlet is the root cause of the issue, it returns not installed Server Roles

     

     

     

    PS C:\Users\Pavel_Dzemyantsau> Get-BPAModel
    
    Id                                                                LastScanTime
    --                                                                 ------------
    Microsoft/Windows/ApplicationServer         10/3/2011 9:56:55 PM
    Microsoft/Windows/Hyper-V                        10/3/2011 9:57:06 PM
    Microsoft/Windows/TerminalServices          10/3/2011 9:57:19 PM
    Microsoft/Windows/WSUS                           10/4/2011 1:33:58 PM
    
    


     



    Correct.  The MP itself does not parse the BPA results beyond figuring out if there is an issue or not.  This is a WSUS BPA bug.
    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 2:30 PM
  • Great, thanks Barry! Good to see you here by the way!

    Because of a bug in certain BPA's they start making alerts, which get picked up by the new BPA MP in the Base-OS mp and thereby move into SCOM console as alerts/state. SO now because of the new MP it just gets noticed quicker now as the monitor is default turned on.

    So is this just the WSUS BPA or all four in Pavel's list? And is this a known bug that is already been taken care of at the respective product team(s)?


    Bob Cornelissen - BICTT (My BICTT Blog) - Microsoft Community Contributor 2011 Recipient
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 2:48 PM
  • IMHO, relying on perfection is a bug.  While there may be a problem in the server role setup that is falsely returning WSUS in more cases than it should, when a feature relies on absolute perfection in a distributed implementation it becomes very fragile.  this is a challenge with SCOM today in general - you all rely on MP's being perfect.  They are hard to make perfect, and when there are 90 teams building them, and each team is at different stages in learning and testing abilities, perfection becomes a liability.
    Microsoft Corporation
    • Marked as answer by Nicholas Li Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:12 AM
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 3:03 PM
  • BPA models location is here

    C:\Windows\System32\BestPractices\v1.0\Models\Microsoft\Windows

    each sub-folder corresponds to one BPA model.

    as ugly woraround one can temporariry move out WSUS model(folder) . And as soon as WSUS Role is installed, we will copy folder/model back.

     

    PS C:\Users\Pavel_Dzemyantsau> dir C:\Windows\System32\BestPractices\v1.0\Models\Microsoft\Windows
    
    
    Mode                LastWriteTime     Length Name
    ----                -------------     ------ ----
    d----        12/27/2010   9:11 AM            ApplicationServer
    d----        11/29/2010   1:37 PM            Hyper-V
    d----        12/13/2010  10:06 AM            TerminalServices
    d----         9/24/2010  12:22 PM            WSUS

    just tried
     
    PS C:\Users\Pavel_Dzemyantsau> Get-BPAModel
    
    Id                                                          LastScanTime
    --                                                          ------------
    Microsoft/Windows/ApplicationServer   10/3/2011 9:56:55 PM
    Microsoft/Windows/Hyper-V                  10/3/2011 9:57:06 PM
    Microsoft/Windows/TerminalServices    10/4/2011 2:30:16 PM
    

     


    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 4:40 PM
  • That sounds plausible as a work around. 
    Microsoft Corporation
    Tuesday, October 4, 2011 7:05 PM
  • Well, we don't ask for flawless MP's (although it would be nice :)), but when these bugs are discovered 24 hours after the release by Microsoft employees it sounds like there is something wrong.

    We all understand that not every product group has the same knowledge about making management packs, but one product group has: The SCOM product group.

    It would be great if the SCOM product group will test the newly released management packs first, before they are released to the public. And even then you could opt for a beta cycle release.


    Regards,
    Marc Klaver
    http://jama00.wordpress.com/
    Wednesday, October 5, 2011 8:30 AM
  • Wish it were that easy.  The suggestion is not one we haven't heard before.  We have even tried beta versions of MP's on connect and had the MVP's signed up to test them.  But that didn't work either.  Please accept my apology for the frustration - we have bugs filed against this version and these are likely to be addressed in the next update.
    Microsoft Corporation
    • Proposed as answer by Nicholas Li Friday, October 7, 2011 3:49 AM
    Wednesday, October 5, 2011 8:01 PM
  • ok, so if this is a BPA bug, then this whole BPA MP doesnt make any sense...who wants his console to fill up with alerts and hosts in the red/yellow that mean nothing? the workaround with deleting/renaming the model folders is not acceptable - i don't want to change systemfiles on hundreds of servers...

    personally i reverted to the old version of the MP, because the other bugs are even worse: typo in the MP that corrupts your configured overrides / wrong permission on stored procedures for the new reports...honestly, and i know i'm not making friends: did this MP receive ANY testing at all? these are bugs that are obvious as soon as you install the MP and play around with it for a few minutes.

    so sorry for being this negative, but i'm really disappointed about the quality of this relase of the most important SCOM MP. and the reactions doesnt make it better..."relying on perfection is a bug", well la-di-da...i'm not asking for perfection but just for the most basic Q&A.

    ok, waiting for a bugfix release.

     

    Thursday, October 6, 2011 7:30 AM
  • Hi guys, the BPA monitor will be disabled by default in the updated version of this mp. Of course can override to turn it back on (once you tackle the wsus bpa bug through a workaround for now). So now it will not cause the noise out of the box. More news on the newer version is to follow very soon.
    Bob Cornelissen - BICTT (My BICTT Blog) - Microsoft Community Contributor 2011 Recipient
    Tuesday, October 11, 2011 6:52 AM
  • New base-os mp just released. has the BPA monitor default disabled as I have mentioned before.
    http://www.bictt.com/blogs/bictt.php/2011/10/19/updated-version-of-the-updated

     


    Bob Cornelissen - BICTT (My BICTT Blog) - Microsoft Community Contributor 2011 Recipient
    • Proposed as answer by Nicholas Li Thursday, October 20, 2011 9:10 AM
    • Marked as answer by Nicholas Li Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:11 AM
    Wednesday, October 19, 2011 7:02 AM
  • We are in 2018 (June) and still have the same issue for SCOM 1801. When will this be fixed???



    Jose Angel Rivera


    • Edited by balboa41 Friday, June 1, 2018 9:45 PM
    Friday, June 1, 2018 9:44 PM