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HIS 2010 with Z/vm RRS feed

  • Question

  • Can HIS 2010 and Z/vm work together using IP-DLC?  I'm seeing DLC everywhere but since there no x64 DLC protocol driver for windows 2008 we would like to use IP-DLC.

    Ty

    Wednesday, August 8, 2012 4:28 PM

Answers

  • "Mlavoie44"

    > I have zero knowledge of z/vm and mainframe, like 99.999999% of the world population

    What percentage of your "99.999999% of the world population" takes the trouble to post in the HIS forum? I submit that a comparable percentage do *not*!

    Anyhow, you can congratulate your self in knowing more than your Microsoft correspondent.

    -

    > I'm looking into HIS 2010 to replace a old cisco 7206 and thought it would be a lot easier than that.

    What functions did the "old cisco 7206" perform - that you care about - and by what means did it establish a connection to z/VM?

    *If* the latter was an 802.2 connection over Ethernet, you will need to use HIS 2000, 2004, 2006 or 2009 and become a hostage to the chosen level going "out of support" at some time in the future - assuming Microsoft operates as IBM does in this regard.

    Remember that your original post insisted on "IP-DLC". Perhaps this was not actually an *absolute* requirement. If you need to use the IP network, you could always use DLSw. However I can see the dreaded "Cisco" still lurking in the wings!

    -

    > ... since z/vm now have a TCP/IP stack (something that did not exist a few year back ...

    There has been a "TCP/IP for VM" product since the very early 1990s when it first came to my attention - so possibly earlier.

    > ... in our config) ...

    That's better! I'm a touch surprised it has taken 20 years!

    > ... that is use to open a telnet session to the "admin shell" of z/vm, ...

    Your description doesn't clearly indicate what you are doing but I expect you are using a "loopback" address such as 127.0.0.1 - or, I believe, 14.0.0.0 used to be popular - for a TELNET client running in a CMS "machine" (supported by a 3270) accessing the TELNET server.

    Later I realised that it was probably *not* the TELNET client that needed VM IP support but the TELNET server only - ho hum, how we would all benefit from clearly stated requirements!"

    > ... is there a way to connect the use dirrectly to a IP adress on the z/vm that would use the right LU or PU (don't remember the exact term here)? 

    This, as a whole, doesn't make sense - and may not be a topic for the HIS forum.

    Please try again to express what you want and post on the IBMTCP-L list where there are one or two regular contributors whose hearts are emblazoned with "z/VM".

    For IBMTCP-L subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to LISTSERV@VM.MARIST.EDU with the message: INFO IBMTCP-L

    I can predict that the Microsoft-oriented watchers' eyes are glazing over!

    -

    It seems to me that what you want could simply be to have SNA-oriented TELNET access from a PC. If that is so you may like to examine using an OSA feature configured with the "Integrated Console Controller" (ICC) capability (CHPID OSC).

    You will find all the documentation you need in these two manuals:

    Open Systems Adapter-Express Integrated Console Controller User’s Guide

    http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/IOA2M110/

    OSA-Express Integrated Console Controller Implementation Guide

    http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg246364.html

    -

    > That way there would be no more APPN or SNA network.

    I'm relying on the fact that earlier you mentioned "LU" and "PU". That seemed to imply you might be using an SNA-oriented TELNET server embedded in your Cisco machine. The Cisco machine would be presenting the appearance of an SNA type 2.0 node (possibly actually a type 2.1 node incorporating the capabilities of a type 2.0 node) to VTAM and supporting an SSCP-dependent PU with "inferior" SSCP-dependent LUs. The PU and LU resources would be defined to VTAM using statements in a member of VTAMLST headed with a VBUILD TYPE=SWNET statement.

    The SNA-oriented TELNET server would allow the concatenation of a TELNET TCP connection from I expect a PC with a 3270 emulator/TELNET client to the SNA-oriented TELNET server in the Cisco machine. That's how the PC users would be able to logon to CMS.

    If you replace this function with an OSA feature configured with CHPID OSC, you have a different type of TELNET server. In combination with some protocol conversion logic in VTAM, this can still be considered as an SNA-oriented TELNET server. The OSA logic presents itself to the processor in the same way that originally the 3272 control unit did, an appearance that is described by VTAM as non-SNA. The TELNET connections to the OSA are supported by a member in VTAMLST headed by an LBUILD statement and contain LOCAL statements.

    To be precisely equivalent you would need to replace each of your existing LU statements with a LOCAL statement. There are a number of familiar operands which are the same although your VTAM specialist is going to need to study the matter and make some fairly simple adjustments.

    -

    Let us refresh our minds over what is under discussion:

    > That way there would be no more APPN or SNA network.

    In fact, if the *only* "application" you use is to access VM CMS, you do not need SNA. VM directly supports the "non-SNA appearance of channel flow supported by the OSA playing the role of a 3272 as it did long before VM supported VTAM - in the mid-1980s.

    Consult your local VM specialist who "manages" user directories for details. This has nothing whatsoever to do with "PUs and LUs"!

    Chris Mason

    Monday, August 13, 2012 3:03 PM

All replies

  • Hi,

    Yes, this should work !

    Best Regards,


    Steve Melan - BCEE My Blog : http://stevemelan.wordpress.com

    Wednesday, August 8, 2012 8:04 PM
  • Hi,

    Yes, this should work !

    Best Regards,


    Steve Melan - BCEE My Blog : http://stevemelan.wordpress.com

    Any info on how to do that?

    Ty

    Thursday, August 9, 2012 11:34 AM
  • Configuring IP-DLC Link Service for IBM Enterprise Extender

    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=86d6011a-3396-4c36-b4b1-af7f4d80a099&displaylang=en&tm

    Best Regards,


    Steve Melan - BCEE My Blog : http://stevemelan.wordpress.com

    Thursday, August 9, 2012 12:06 PM
  • Exterprise extender do not work with Z/vm.  To make it work we would need IBM Communications server for linux ftp://public.dhe.ibm.com/software/network/commserver/brochures/cs_lin_z_62.pdf

    This howerver is something we can't install :-(

    Any other idea?

    Ty

    Friday, August 10, 2012 11:03 AM
  • "Mlavioe44"

    >...> Can HIS 2010 and Z/vm work together using IP-DLC?

    > Exterprise extender do not work with Z/vm.

    A bit sneaky asking a question for which you already knew the answer. Was your intention to cause a Microsoft specialist to present egg all over his face? Well, you got one to fall for it "hook, line and sinker", did you not?

    -

    The following are the platforms for Enterprise Extender of which I am aware:

    - Windows PC
    -- HIS 2004, 2006, 2009, 2010
    -- Communications Server for Windows
    - Linux on PC
    -- Communications Server for Linux
    - z/OS (not z/VM or z/VSE)
    -- Communications Server
    - Linux on z
    -- Communications Server for Linux
    - AS/400
    - Cisco
    -- SNASw
    - RS/6000
    -- Communications Server for AIX

    -

    > Communications server for linux
    > This howerver is something we can't install

    Why?

    Perhaps you'd be allowed to purchase and install Communications Server (CS) for Windows. Then all you need do is set up a connection between CS for Windows and  z/VM, say using an OSA defined as CHPID OSE (3172 emulation).

    The Enterprise Extender connection would be between HIS and CS for Windows.

    But how can we have two instances of logic implementing a link station supporting RFC 2353, "APPN/HPR in IP Networks", - aka Enterprise Extender and IP-DLC - "hosted" on the same SNA/IP node?

    First I looked at whether or not the same IP address could be used, ideally a "loopback" address, 127.0.0.1 perhaps. However, although it is possible to select different port numbers in the z/OS CS implementation, it's not even really practical with z/OS CS and there's no option I can find in the two Windows implementations. End of that idea!

    Next I looked at IP addresses and - I think/hope - bingo!

    On the "IP-DLC Link Service #1 Properties" window, "General" tab, under "Local address" it is possible to specify a "Static
    IP address". On page 33 of the "white paper" Steve Melan offered you - as if that document were a complete solution! - the following text appears as a guide for how to handle "Static IP address":

    <quote>

    For multiple IP addresses on a single Network Adapter, select the Static IP address option and specify the appropriate IP address for the IP-LDC link service to use (Static IP Address selection is grayed if there are no local adapters with static address configured)

    </quote>

    Thus, as long as the adapter which connects to the IP network is configured with minimally two IP addresses, it will be possible to have the two SNA node instances in communication with each other using RFC 2353.

    There's your "Any other idea?"!

    You'd need to have APPN expertise to be able to interpret what is said in the "white paper" in order to deal with this sort of configuration but it's APPN "business-as-usual".

    Chris Mason

    Sunday, August 12, 2012 1:39 PM
  • "Mlavioe44"

    >...> Can HIS 2010 and Z/vm work together using IP-DLC?

    > Exterprise extender do not work with Z/vm.

    A bit sneaky asking a question for which you already knew the answer. Was your intention to cause a Microsoft specialist to present egg all over his face? Well, you got one to fall for it "hook, line and sinker", did you not?

    Just to be clear, I didn't know the answer before getting the link and looking into it.  I have zero knowledge of z/vm and mainframe, like 99.999999% of the world population :-)

    I'm looking into HIS 2010 to replace a old cisco 7206 and thought it would be a lot easier than that.

    One last question, since z/vm now have a TCP/IP stack (something that did not exist a few year back in our config) that is use to open a telnet session to the "admin shell" of z/vm, is there a way to connect the use dirrectly to a IP adress on the z/vm that would use the right LU or PU (don't remember the exact term here)?  That way there would be no more APPN or SNA network.

    Monday, August 13, 2012 11:31 AM
  • "Mlavoie44"

    > I have zero knowledge of z/vm and mainframe, like 99.999999% of the world population

    What percentage of your "99.999999% of the world population" takes the trouble to post in the HIS forum? I submit that a comparable percentage do *not*!

    Anyhow, you can congratulate your self in knowing more than your Microsoft correspondent.

    -

    > I'm looking into HIS 2010 to replace a old cisco 7206 and thought it would be a lot easier than that.

    What functions did the "old cisco 7206" perform - that you care about - and by what means did it establish a connection to z/VM?

    *If* the latter was an 802.2 connection over Ethernet, you will need to use HIS 2000, 2004, 2006 or 2009 and become a hostage to the chosen level going "out of support" at some time in the future - assuming Microsoft operates as IBM does in this regard.

    Remember that your original post insisted on "IP-DLC". Perhaps this was not actually an *absolute* requirement. If you need to use the IP network, you could always use DLSw. However I can see the dreaded "Cisco" still lurking in the wings!

    -

    > ... since z/vm now have a TCP/IP stack (something that did not exist a few year back ...

    There has been a "TCP/IP for VM" product since the very early 1990s when it first came to my attention - so possibly earlier.

    > ... in our config) ...

    That's better! I'm a touch surprised it has taken 20 years!

    > ... that is use to open a telnet session to the "admin shell" of z/vm, ...

    Your description doesn't clearly indicate what you are doing but I expect you are using a "loopback" address such as 127.0.0.1 - or, I believe, 14.0.0.0 used to be popular - for a TELNET client running in a CMS "machine" (supported by a 3270) accessing the TELNET server.

    Later I realised that it was probably *not* the TELNET client that needed VM IP support but the TELNET server only - ho hum, how we would all benefit from clearly stated requirements!"

    > ... is there a way to connect the use dirrectly to a IP adress on the z/vm that would use the right LU or PU (don't remember the exact term here)? 

    This, as a whole, doesn't make sense - and may not be a topic for the HIS forum.

    Please try again to express what you want and post on the IBMTCP-L list where there are one or two regular contributors whose hearts are emblazoned with "z/VM".

    For IBMTCP-L subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to LISTSERV@VM.MARIST.EDU with the message: INFO IBMTCP-L

    I can predict that the Microsoft-oriented watchers' eyes are glazing over!

    -

    It seems to me that what you want could simply be to have SNA-oriented TELNET access from a PC. If that is so you may like to examine using an OSA feature configured with the "Integrated Console Controller" (ICC) capability (CHPID OSC).

    You will find all the documentation you need in these two manuals:

    Open Systems Adapter-Express Integrated Console Controller User’s Guide

    http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/IOA2M110/

    OSA-Express Integrated Console Controller Implementation Guide

    http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg246364.html

    -

    > That way there would be no more APPN or SNA network.

    I'm relying on the fact that earlier you mentioned "LU" and "PU". That seemed to imply you might be using an SNA-oriented TELNET server embedded in your Cisco machine. The Cisco machine would be presenting the appearance of an SNA type 2.0 node (possibly actually a type 2.1 node incorporating the capabilities of a type 2.0 node) to VTAM and supporting an SSCP-dependent PU with "inferior" SSCP-dependent LUs. The PU and LU resources would be defined to VTAM using statements in a member of VTAMLST headed with a VBUILD TYPE=SWNET statement.

    The SNA-oriented TELNET server would allow the concatenation of a TELNET TCP connection from I expect a PC with a 3270 emulator/TELNET client to the SNA-oriented TELNET server in the Cisco machine. That's how the PC users would be able to logon to CMS.

    If you replace this function with an OSA feature configured with CHPID OSC, you have a different type of TELNET server. In combination with some protocol conversion logic in VTAM, this can still be considered as an SNA-oriented TELNET server. The OSA logic presents itself to the processor in the same way that originally the 3272 control unit did, an appearance that is described by VTAM as non-SNA. The TELNET connections to the OSA are supported by a member in VTAMLST headed by an LBUILD statement and contain LOCAL statements.

    To be precisely equivalent you would need to replace each of your existing LU statements with a LOCAL statement. There are a number of familiar operands which are the same although your VTAM specialist is going to need to study the matter and make some fairly simple adjustments.

    -

    Let us refresh our minds over what is under discussion:

    > That way there would be no more APPN or SNA network.

    In fact, if the *only* "application" you use is to access VM CMS, you do not need SNA. VM directly supports the "non-SNA appearance of channel flow supported by the OSA playing the role of a 3272 as it did long before VM supported VTAM - in the mid-1980s.

    Consult your local VM specialist who "manages" user directories for details. This has nothing whatsoever to do with "PUs and LUs"!

    Chris Mason

    Monday, August 13, 2012 3:03 PM
  • Thanks a lot.  I'll look into the OSA.
    Wednesday, August 15, 2012 12:08 PM