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  • Question

  • I am building a new machine. The basic Specs are as follows:

    Asus P5E MOBO / Asus EAH4850 Graphics Card / Intel 9450 Quad Core CPU / 2 GB Corsair DDR2 800 RAM / OCZ 900 Watt PSU / WD Velociraptor 300 GB HD / Samsung 1 TB HD / Plextor DVD-RW / Samsung DVD-RW / Windows XP Pro and Vista Home Premium in a Dual Boot configuration

    The XP Pro side works perfectly. The Home Premium side works fine except the Performance Index and the ATI 3D rendering Utilities. When I look at the Performance Index three out of five possible Indeses show as 5.9. "The Desktop Performance for Windows Aero" and the "3D Business and Gaming Graphics" Indexes show as 1.0. When I run the Refresh Button to update the Indexes, the Computer crashes to the Desktop, Blue Screens, reboots and stalls, or freezes. The Computer seems to stall at the "Running The 3D Texture Load Assessment" or the "Direct 3D Alpha Blend Assessment" sections of the Index. This happens after the screen flickers and goes off and Vista provides an Error Message that says "ATIKMDAG Display Driver Has Stoped Resoponding And Has Recovered". Also, Videos won't play and also cause a "crash". The same type of problems exist when I run the ATI 3D Utilities. I've tried this any number of times on both of the Benchmarks (the Performance Index and the ATI Utilities), and each time you can select one from the above to happen!

    I have updated the Bios to the latest revision (V0903), updated the Chipset (2007-09-17) and Graphics Card Drivers (V8.523 and the Catlyst Software to V8.9), and still no joy! I even RMA'd the MOBO to Asus thinking perhaps we have a bad Chipset, but I get the same result with the new MOBO. I have tried a different Graphics Card (EAH 2600), got all the latest Drivers for this Card, and still have the same problem.

    I am totaly at my wits end!! Please someone help!! Thank you!!

    Vic

    Saturday, October 11, 2008 3:20 PM

Answers

  • Hello,

     

    Before going any further, make sure that your hardware is compatible with Windows Vista and upgrade device driver to the latest version.

     

    Then login system as the administrator account, start a Windows Explorer and locate the path to "C:\Windows\Performance\WinSAT\DataStore" and delete all the files from that folder. Restart the computer and re-rate this computer again.

     

    If the problem still persists, you might continue with the following instructions to narrow down the problem.

     

    Start Windows in Clean Boot mode

    Note: You must be logged on as an administrator or a member of the Administrators group to complete this procedure.

    1) Click Start.

    2) Copy and paste "msconfig" (without the quotation marks) in the Start Search box, and click Enter.

    3) Switch to Services tab and then Check Hide All Microsoft Services.

    4) Click Disable All.

    5) Switch to the Startup tab and then Click Disable all.

    6) Click OK.

    7) Click Restart to restart the computer and test the issue.

     

    Create a New Windows Account

    1) Open User Accounts by clicking the Start button, clicking Control Panel, clicking User Accounts and Family Safety, and then clicking User Accounts.

    2) Click Manage another account If you are prompted for an administrator password or confirmation, type the password or provide confirmation.

    3) Click Create a new account.

    4) Type the name you want to give the user account, click an account type, and then click Create Account.

    Create a user account

    http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/68a1c4fd-b3f6-4cb9-93a1-8a6023836e531033.mspx#E1D

     

    If all the above steps do not work on your issue, the problem should be a little intractable. According to your problem description, you encountered the blue screen while indexing system performance. Since Windows system uses separated user mode and kernel mode memory space, stop errors are always caused by kernel portion components, such as a hardware device, third-party drivers, backup software or anti-virus services (buggy services).

     

    The system goes to a blue screen because there is some exceptions happened in the kernel (either the device driver errors or the service errors), and Windows implements this mechanism: When it detects some errors occur in the kernel, it will kill the box in case some more severe damage happens. Then we get a blue screen or the system reboots (it depends on what the system settings are).

     

    To troubleshoot this kind of kernel crash issue, we need to debug the crashed system dump. Unfortunately, debugging is beyond what we can do in the forum. A suggestion would be to contact Microsoft Customer Service and Support (CSS) via telephone so that a dedicated Support Professional can assist with your request. Please be advised that contacting phone support will be a charged call.

     

    To obtain the phone numbers for specific technology request please take a look at the web site listed below:

    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;PHONENUMBERS

     

    If you are outside the US please see http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.

     

    I hope the problem will be resolved soon. Thanks!

     

    Hope it works!

     

    Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:26 AM

All replies

  • Hello,

     

    Before going any further, make sure that your hardware is compatible with Windows Vista and upgrade device driver to the latest version.

     

    Then login system as the administrator account, start a Windows Explorer and locate the path to "C:\Windows\Performance\WinSAT\DataStore" and delete all the files from that folder. Restart the computer and re-rate this computer again.

     

    If the problem still persists, you might continue with the following instructions to narrow down the problem.

     

    Start Windows in Clean Boot mode

    Note: You must be logged on as an administrator or a member of the Administrators group to complete this procedure.

    1) Click Start.

    2) Copy and paste "msconfig" (without the quotation marks) in the Start Search box, and click Enter.

    3) Switch to Services tab and then Check Hide All Microsoft Services.

    4) Click Disable All.

    5) Switch to the Startup tab and then Click Disable all.

    6) Click OK.

    7) Click Restart to restart the computer and test the issue.

     

    Create a New Windows Account

    1) Open User Accounts by clicking the Start button, clicking Control Panel, clicking User Accounts and Family Safety, and then clicking User Accounts.

    2) Click Manage another account If you are prompted for an administrator password or confirmation, type the password or provide confirmation.

    3) Click Create a new account.

    4) Type the name you want to give the user account, click an account type, and then click Create Account.

    Create a user account

    http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/68a1c4fd-b3f6-4cb9-93a1-8a6023836e531033.mspx#E1D

     

    If all the above steps do not work on your issue, the problem should be a little intractable. According to your problem description, you encountered the blue screen while indexing system performance. Since Windows system uses separated user mode and kernel mode memory space, stop errors are always caused by kernel portion components, such as a hardware device, third-party drivers, backup software or anti-virus services (buggy services).

     

    The system goes to a blue screen because there is some exceptions happened in the kernel (either the device driver errors or the service errors), and Windows implements this mechanism: When it detects some errors occur in the kernel, it will kill the box in case some more severe damage happens. Then we get a blue screen or the system reboots (it depends on what the system settings are).

     

    To troubleshoot this kind of kernel crash issue, we need to debug the crashed system dump. Unfortunately, debugging is beyond what we can do in the forum. A suggestion would be to contact Microsoft Customer Service and Support (CSS) via telephone so that a dedicated Support Professional can assist with your request. Please be advised that contacting phone support will be a charged call.

     

    To obtain the phone numbers for specific technology request please take a look at the web site listed below:

    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;PHONENUMBERS

     

    If you are outside the US please see http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.

     

    I hope the problem will be resolved soon. Thanks!

     

    Hope it works!

     

    Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:26 AM
  • Hi Andy -

    Thank you for your reply!  I will try your suggestions this week and get back to you with the results.

    Regards,

    Vic

    Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:20 AM
  • Andy -

     

    Here is a report relative to your suggestions:

     

    1.  Deleting the files from WinSat\DataStore - this file was not located

     

    2.  Clean Boot - resulted in a BSOD on exit

    2a.  On the second run of the Experience Index the Computer stalled at "Running The Direct3D Texture Assessment"

    2b.  On the third attempt I recieved the Error message "Display Driver Stopped responding And Has Recovered" (ATIKMDAG)

     

    3.  Create New User Account -  resulted in a BSOD on the first attempt

    3a.  On the second attempt the Computer stalled resulting in a "dirty logoff"

     

    Although I hate to go this route, I'm afraid that I will have to go to Microsoft as none of my other Posts on various different Forums have turned up anything of value.

     

    Thank you for your help!

     

    Regards,

     

    Vic

     

    Thursday, October 16, 2008 1:22 PM
  • Hello Vic,

     

    According to your response, I suppose that you system should be badly damaged and you'd better repair or reinstall Windows Vista OS to solve the problem in timely manner.

     

    Startup Repair from the Windows Recovery Environment (WinRE)

    1. Insert the Windows Vista installation disc into the disc drive, and then start the computer. 

    2. Press a key when the message indicating "Press any key to boot from CD or DVD …". appears.

    3. Select a language, a time and currency, and a keyboard or input method, and then click Next

    4. Click Repair your computer

    5. In the System Recovery Options dialog box, choose the drive of your Windows installation and click Next

    6. At the System Recovery Options Dialog Box, click on Repair your computer.

    7. (Click the operating system that you want to repair), and then click Next.

    8. In the System Recovery Options dialog box, click Startup Repair.

     

    If all the above steps do not work, I suppose that you should format the computer and rebuild the system at your earliest convenience. (Note: don't forget to backup the necessary data)

     

    Hope it work!

    Friday, October 17, 2008 9:39 AM
  • Hi Andy -

    Nope! The rest of the Operating System works fine. I can get on the Internet, open Files, and open any OS Application Program such as Word Pad, and get Windows Updates including Service Pack 1

    I started with a Windows Vista Ultimate install after a flawless install of Windows XP Professional on the other side, and then after encountering this issue, reinstalled using Vista Home Premium finding the same problems as with the Ultimate.  I then went through all the Updates for BIOS, Chipset, Video Card, etc.  All went fine but the problem still remains.

    Just to put things into perspective, I am an A+ Qualified Computer Technician, so this is not my first Computer Build by any means, but I have to admit that this is the most vexing issue that I've had with any of my Builds.

    I appreciate your help!  Perhaps a couple of "Techies" with their heads together will eventually solve the problem.  Checking with AMD (ATI) yesterday, their Level 2 Technician  indicated that they, and apparently NVIDIA have "heard" and had Reports of similar problems with Vista installs, but after a review of their Drivers, concluded that these Reports did not relate to a Driver "hack".  He indicated that they could not replicate the problems.  He gave me the NVIDIA Driver number that last appears when an NVIDIA system crashes.  This is similar to when my system crashes and reports an ATI Driver shutdown and restart.  Both the NVIDIA and ATI groups have concluded that the OS stalls or crashes for some other reason than a Video Card issue, but the last thing that the OS shows is the VC Driver.  He did mention that ATI just downloaded a new Catalyst v8.10 Driver package that dealt with some game issues and not this problem.  I currently have v8.9 installed.  I will download and install that package this afternoon just for "laughs and giggles" and see if it makes a difference.  I'll let you know.

    I went through everything that you suggested and reported as my last Message Post, but find it significant that I could not find the File that you referenced in your suggestion list.  This is beginning to "feel" and "smell" more like a Vista OS Problem.

    Regards,

    Vic

    Friday, October 17, 2008 12:16 PM
  • Hi everyone,

     

    I have got exactly the same problem.

     

    Did you find a solution for this?

     

    I tried with vista 32bit and 64bit and always the same. There was only one exception the drivers from the cd included in the graphic package in 32bit Vista. Now it seems more to be a driver/vista problem I think. The SP1 have not solved the problem.

     

    Then after some attempts in 64bit I managed to run it I don’t know how.  I just reinstalled all of the vga drivers and then uninstalled it. I think it was the default vista driver for 4850. But this was not the solution, because after I reinstalled vista again to proof my solution it did not work again.

     

    The BSOD tells that the vista kernel can’t access the vga hardware. But this is strange because it works sporadically with some drivers.

     

    I think could be a problem with the BIOS SETTNGS or IRQs. I will check.

     

    Regards,

     

    Michal

     

    Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:25 AM
  • Sorry forgot to mention my HW:

     

    Asus P5B

    Intel E6600

    VGA Gainward GS 4850 512MB

    Corsair XMS2 4GB

    250GB SATA2 HDD Seagate

    Enermax 500W - up to 550W

     

    On XP works everything fine. But Vista is really frustrating.

     

     

    Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:53 AM
  • Hi Michal -

    Thank you for your Post.  Here are the latest things that I've tried:

    *  I completely uninstalled both Windows XP Professional and Vista Home Premium from VelociRaptor 1

    *  I Partitioned VelociRaptor 1, Formatted the Partition, and then clean installed Vista Ultimate (32 Bit).  Got all Windows Updates including SP1

    *  I then tried the VC 4850 again.  Same series of problems as outlined above, and no joy!

    *  I contacted Microsoft Tech Support and spent five hours on the phone with them.  We uninstalled SP1 and then reinstalled it.  No Joy!  We tried every 4850 Driver we could find on the ASUS (ASUS VC) and ATI Web Sites.  Still no Joy!

    *  I then installed an nVidia 7900 VC and was able to run the Windows Experience Index and a couple of Sample Videos with no problem.  The system seemed stable and I thought that I was "home free".  Wrong!  Just when I thought that I was "fat, warm, and fuzzy", the issues came back again!

    *  This time I tried an nVidia 8800 VC but the problems and issues were exactly the same as with the 4850 VC except instead of reporting the ATI (ATIKMDAG.SYS), Driver stopped responding, it reported the nVidia (NLVDDMKM.SYS), Driver stopped responding

    *  I replaced the 2 GB of Corsair XMS2 with 4GB of the same memory.  No joy!

    *  I reinstalled the 7900 VC as the system seems to run the best with this lower end VC, but I have no explanation for this.  As soon as the "Powerhouse" VCs (the 4850 and the 8800), go in, the problems become much worse and the system is much more unstable.  That is not to say that the issues don't exist with the 7900 VC, but that they are less

    *  I intend to next clone the Windows Vista Ultimate OS onto a Samsung 1 TB Hard Drive and then reinstall the 4850 VC on that OS to take the Velociraptor out of the mix entirely to see if the slower Drive (7200 RPM vs. 10,000 RPM), makes a difference

    *  I also ordered 4 GB of Kingston KHX6400D2LL/1GR RAM that was on the ASUS QSL along with the Corsair XMS2.  That new RAM should be here by this weekend, and I can try this as a possible solution as well

    *  One of my Posts on HOTHARDWARE.COM suggested uninstalling Adobe Flash v9 and Installing v10.  This is a long shot, but what the heck, I'll try almost anything at this point.  That is also on the plate for today or tomorrow

    That is my latest update.  I'll keep you guys in the loop.  My frustration level is increasing daily!!!

    Regards,

    Vic


    Thursday, October 23, 2008 12:46 PM
  • Hi Vic,

     

    first sorry for my english, its not perfect

     

    I will try to describe you my crazy solution, what worked till I have reinstalled Vista. But I think the solution was more lucky then profesional. After I tried it to repeat again it did not worked. But If you want you can try.

     

    1. Clean installed Vista SP1 (I think the version is unimportant 32/64bit)

    2. After installed Catalyst 8.10 hotfix for far cry 2 (driver + catalyst)

    3. Tried WEI - loading aero = 1x flashed, then distortion of display and finally BSOD or BLACKSCREEN (tried more times the same result)

    4. Uninstalled, installed other version of driver the same result by WEI

    5. Installed ASUS MOBO driver + SOUND driver

    6. Again uninstalled and after restart the driver was there I dont know if it was a driver from the  vista cache or some vista driver installed automaticaly, more the cached driver I think. (ATI CATALYST SW was not installed)

    7. I installed 3D MARK VANTAGE - by installation of this software some DIRECTX imputs + C++ (like by installing of ATI DRIVER)

    8. Then both graphic benchmarks and it worked, this really suprised me.

    9. After WEI cause no more problem.

     (what I found out, when it works the vga fan spins faster a little bit when loading aero by WEI, when not the vga fan start to spin slower then BSOD or BS)

     

    I reinstalled the whole OS because I thought the 3D MARK VANTAGE with the directx + c++ imputs solved the problem, so I did following steps.

     

    1. > 2. > 7 = 3D MARK VANTAGE cause the same problem as WEI now.

     

    I will try now 1 > 5 > 2 > 7 and I hope it will solve the problem.

     

    I will keep in touch.

    Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:53 PM
  • Hi Vic as promised the solution Smile

     

    Set Plug & Play in BIOS from BIOS to OS

     

    Thats it.

     

    And after you have to be able to run WIE and 3D Apps.

    Friday, October 24, 2008 7:56 AM
  • Hi Michal –

     

    I see that you have been busy as well.

     

    Generally speaking shifting the BIOS entry from “BIOS” to “OS” is not a good idea because it takes the BIOS out of the loop for checking your Hardware.  That being said, this is an unusual situation and you may have hit on a possible solution to our problem.  I have a few more things to report as well that I’m going to try first (see below), and if these don’t work I’ll try your suggestion.

     

    The cloning of my OS to the Samsung Hard Drive went well and then I disconnected the Two VelociRaptors from the Computer.  I ran the Operating System from the Samsung Hard Drive with no problems and uninstalled the nVidia 7900 Video Card.  I used Driver Cleaner Pro and Driver Sweeper v1.5.5 to clean-up the “leftovers” from the VC uninstall.  I next installed the ATI 4850 VC with the latest Catalyst Control Center Drivers (v8.10).  I was able to run the WEI once with no problems, but I did have a couple of BESODs and a lock-up.  All-in-all however, the VC seemed to run better on the slower Hard Drive set-up.

     

    I then spent an hour on the phone yesterday with an ATI Level 2 Technician.  He was actually very helpful.  He indicated that they (ATI and I suspect nVidia as well), have seen this problem on a recurring basis although they have not been able to replicate it in their Lab.  He directed me to their Web Site and indicated that I should type in the Report Code 27116 in the Search Box at the right hand top of the Home Page, and then select ATI from the Drop-down Menu next to the Search Box.  This brought up four pages of the same kind of problems that we have been experiencing on various different Video Cards in the Radeon family.  My 4800 Series was at the top of the list.  Accessing this Report brought me to a series of potential solutions.  It appears to be a Hardware incompatibility with Windows Vista.  Something we have suspected for some time now.  Microsoft recognizes this issue and has information and a Hotfix to deal with it.  Reference MS KB Article 938194 (September 24, 2008).  In this Article the description appears to be exactly what you and I are having problems with, and it also references several other Articles that may have a bearing on the problem.  See MS KB Article 932539, 940105, and this Link http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/display/wddm_timeout.mspx).  I am going to try this Hotfix download this afternoon some time and then I’ll let you know how I make out.

     

    Regards,

     

              Vic

    Friday, October 24, 2008 11:38 AM
  • Hi Michal –

     

    I’m sorry that I’ve been late with this follow-up, but a lot has been going on.  Unfortunately, I don’t have a solution yet.  Here are the latest updades:

    I attempted to download and install the MS Hotfix as outlined above.  The download was successful, but the installation failed with an Error Message that indicated that “This Update does not apply to this System”.  How can that be?  I rechecked the KB Article again and it clearly states that the Update is for all versions of Vista including Ultimate and Home Premium (the two OSs that I have been messing with).  I tried the Update two or three more times including the 64 Bit version, but no joy.  The Hotfix just won’t install on my machine!  Period!!

     

     I next tried your BIOS tweak by changing the default “No” to “Yes” in the “Plug and Play” Menu.  I tried the WEI with the same problems existing again.  So no joy there either.  Apparently, what worked for you did not work for me so I changed the BIOS back to the default settings again

     

    Since I am using an OCZ Modular Power Supply I switched the PCI-E Power Cables around thinking that perhaps I might have a bad Cable causing the issues.  It didn’t make any difference

     

     I then moved the Video Card to the second PCI-E slot and tried switching the Cables around again with this new configuration.  I still had the same problems, but perhaps marginally worse with the VC in the Secondary PCI-E slot

     

    Finally, I moved the VC back to my original configuration with the VC in the Primary PCI-E slot

     

    O.K. that is the latest Update.  My new Kingston Memory comes today and I’ll try that tomorrow.  I’ll let you know how that turns out.

     

    Regards,

     

    Vic

    Monday, October 27, 2008 2:26 PM
  • Hi Vic,

    The Bios solved the problem only for one restart of Vista. After I tried with XP - but there is a problem with the 3D apps too, another, but I think this is not normal. I had before a Geforce card and no problems.

    I really must say that I seriously start to hate ATI and their drivers. This was my first and last ATI Card. I think the problem is causing by the graphic card and bad drivers.

    Am going to sell the card and buy an ASUS 9800 GT ULTIMATE :-)

    This is my last post here, because so much trouble caused by a ATI stupid card, I have another things to do.

    Regards and thanks,

    Michal


    Monday, October 27, 2008 9:31 PM
  • Hi Michal –

     

    Remember that I tried two nVidia Video Cards as well (8800GT and a 7900GT), with the same results.

     

    Regards,

     

    Vic

    Monday, October 27, 2008 9:50 PM
  •  

    Hi Vic,

     

    yes I know, but I had some problems in XP too.

     

    I am going to receive asus 9800GT ultimate tommorow and I hope with no problems now. I will not install Vista because I think the difference between dx9 and 10 are minimal and dx10 is a performance eater Smile. There is another solution for dx10 on xp Smile

     

    I have installed win xp x64 and I am very sat with this OS (x64 drivers are part of the ASUS CD). No problems with 32 bit games and apps. I think Vista was and is a step in wrong way and XP is more stable and solving problems is more easier and faster. I often use ATL TAB switching between windows and try this in VISTA and XP.  You will be suprised Smile

     

    When you try to find an advantage of vista there is really nothing what makes vista more reliable than xp.

     

    XP is the coolest OS ever Smile

     

    Linux too Smile

     

    Regards,

     

    Michal.

     

    Good luck Smile

    Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:40 PM
  • Hi Michal –

    Yeah, I agree! 


    I installed Windows XP Professional (32 Bit) this morning and I’m going to run this for awhile and see if I have the same issues.  I’ll
    Benchmark it with 3DMark06 just to see if the graphics problems come back.

    Thanks for your help and suggestions.

    Regards,

    Vic

    Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:50 PM
  • Must be a windows problem when all the Vid Card Makers have the same error :

     

     

    INTEL:

    NVIDIA:

    AMD:

    MICROSOFT:

    Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:03 PM
  • Hi Martin -

    Thanks for your Post.  I guess it is comforting to know that other folks are experiencing the same issues!  Now, if we could only find the solution .......................!!

    Regards,

    Vic

    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:06 PM
  • Any word yet on how to fix this problem from MS, I have been dealing with for 7 Months.. I have this problem in both XP and Vista.


    Here are my system specs

     

    Here are my Rigs specs..

    Motherboards: nForce 680i S775 SLI Motherboard

    Processors: Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 2.93GHz Processor, Overclocked to 3.4GHz

    Networking: Dual Integrated Gigabit LAN Adapters

    (1st) Hard Drive Disk 150GB Serial ATA 10,000RPM Hard Drive

    (2nd) Hard Drive Disk 150GB Serial ATA 10,000RPM Hard Drive

    Computer Cases: Systemax ATX Blue/Silver Gaming Case

    Power Supplies: Ultra X3 1000 Watt Power Supply

    Memory: Corsair 4GB PC8500 DDR2 Memory

    Video / Graphics Cards: 2x GeForce 8800GTX 768MB PCI-E SLI Mode

    Video / Graphics Cards: Ageia PhysX 128MB GDDR3 Physics Accelerator Card

    Software: Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 64bit OS

    CD/DVD Drives: 20X DVD-/+/R/RW Dual Layer Drive

    CD/DVD Drives: 20X DVD-/+/R/RW Dual Layer Drive

    Sound System :Logitech Z5500

    Moniter :Viewsonic 28inch Widescreen ,3ms Response

    Wednesday, December 17, 2008 3:44 AM
  • I have a related problem.  I built a Vista 64 bitHome Premium computer.  Gygabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H MB.   AMD Athlon x2 64 bit 6400 processor.  G. Skill 2gb memory sticks.  Whenever I add a second (or more) stick of memory, the graphics go bad and I can't get a rating.  I have used 4 different graphics cards (2 NVidia and 2 ATI, both with 512 and separate power to te card).  With only one stick of memory, processor and gaming grapics are 5.5 and the others are 5.9.  I have swapped out the MB.  Nothing.  Put it back and swaped the CPU for a 6000.  Nothing.  I've tried alternating slots with memory.  Nothing.  I've switced to 1 GB sticks.  Same problem.  Any sugestions.  I've never had this problem with a vista or xp build, before.
    Thursday, December 25, 2008 2:47 AM