locked
SCOM 2012R2 / 2016 compatability. RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hi - and apologies if this is a dumb question - just trying to get a quick answer....

    I have a 2012 R2 (UR13) SCOM deployment and am probably looking to build out a  SCOM 2016 infrastructure soon.  Still trying to decide whther to do in-place upgrade or side x side migration - in the past I've always done side x side as working from a clean slate has advantages plus always nervous of in place upgrade going wrong...

    One of the pain points of clean build is the prospect of possibly having to recreate the many customization implemented - either as overrides to standard sealed MPs' (saved in their own unsealed MP for the sealed MP) or as bespoke monitoring again using its own unsealed MP.

    So my query is will importing a unsealed custom MP work without issue and a wider question is are all sealed 2012 MPs (all the free microsoft written ones) for technologies like SQL,Windows Server etc etc compatible with 2016 and will import without issue - or are there specific 2016 versions I need to find and import from scratch?

    Any advice much appreciated...

    Cheers

    Monday, January 15, 2018 3:04 PM

Answers

  • You can install the two new SCOM 2016 management servers and install the web console on them. If you get this working I don't see a reason to start a complete new management group. Beside that: if your web consoles stopped working a couple of URs ago you can aks yourself the question if they are that important. 

    For your SQL you have couple of options:

    1. Upgrade them in-place to a minimum of Windows Server 2012 R2 and possibly even directly to Windows Server 2016. This requires some downtime, but is possible. Saves you failing over to a new server. That only leaves you maybe with an older version of SQL. If something fails in your upgrade you possible need to start your disaster recovery process to move it to another server. Keep that in mind.

    2. Build a new SQL environment, possibly even with AlwaysOn for your OperationsManager and OperationsManagerDW database. Follow the guides how to move the databases to your new servers:
    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-US/library/hh278848.aspx
    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-US/library/hh268492.aspx

    This requires less downtine, only the time needed for the failover. 

    • Marked as answer by new2scom Tuesday, January 16, 2018 10:37 AM
    Tuesday, January 16, 2018 9:53 AM
  • It's the first one: so install a W2K16 server and install SCOM 2016 and when asked what to do mention that you want to connect it to an existing management group.
    • Marked as answer by new2scom Thursday, February 1, 2018 10:54 AM
    Thursday, February 1, 2018 10:14 AM

All replies

  • All management packs imported in your 2012 R2 environment can also be used in your 2016 environment. So you don't need to worry about that. 
    Tuesday, January 16, 2018 6:31 AM
  • I would do the in place upgrade instead of migration, especially if your current installations works fine. The upgrade is not that big, and then you dont need to export and import your custom mps (even though its very true what RuudvdH says) as well as multihoming the agents.


    Tuesday, January 16, 2018 7:56 AM
  • There are some scenarios for an in-place upgrade you can consider:

    Do an in-place upgrade on the existing management servers. I did a couple of these and all without any issues except one management server that rolled back installation meaning that there was no SCOM installed at a certain point. Ran the installation again like it was a new server and no problems afterwards. No hassle with moving agent or console connectivity.

    An in-place upgrade on new management servers. Install a new SCOM 2016 server and add this to the existing management group. When finished make sure you move all agent and console connectivity over to the new severs and remove the old SCOM 2012 R2 management servers. The advantage is that you can go for Windows Server 2016 as OS (assuming that you don't have this yet).

    Keep in mind that there is a prerequisite to have Windows Server 2012R2 installed on all of your servers (including database server(s)). This can affect the scenario you have in mind. If you have to upgrade to Windows Server 2012 R2 it's not worth to go for an in-place upgrade on the same management servers. Just add new ones.

    Same as Michael Skov I wouldn't even consider a new SCOM 2016 management group if your current environment is functioning well. And if you are planning to do that and just bring all management packs from the old to the new environment you basically have the same environment and that's not worth the hassle. Only when you want to start with a clean slate and really start over for good reasons I would advise for this route. 

    Tuesday, January 16, 2018 8:10 AM
  • Very helpful guys - looking at the replies its  swaying me towards an in-place upgrade.

    A bit more detail on my scenario and potential in-place plan.

    1. Current monitoring infrastructure works OK.  Only issue I have is that access to web console broke a few UR's ago and have never got resolved.  Dont know if this issue is likely to follow me into the 2016 environment post upgrade.  So I will basically have to weigh up potential web console issue Vs not having the hassle of recreating all customizations - would probably be less work trying to work out the web console issue in isolation post upgrade?..

    2.  As part of the upgrade I did want to take opportunity to upgrade to Server 2016 O/S. Currently has 4xManagement servers 2x SQL server (one for OpsDB/DW and one for Reporting).  These servers are all server 2012 atm (not 2012R2) - all agent mgmt workload (1000 agents) is handled equally between 2 of these mgmt servers.  As I cant directly upgrade these servers was thinking of deploying at least 2 new server 2016 servers and add these into the existing 2012 mgmt group, and shift all the agents on to these.  In practice as we run virtual servers and have capacity I would be able to add as many 2016 servers into the mgmt group and phase out/decomm the 2012 ones once all service are migrated off to the new ones.

    The tricky/concerning part would be the migration of the OpsDB/DW and Reporting roles (currently hosted on 2 2012 SQL servers) onto brand new server2016/SQL 2016 server/instances.  This would be the bit I am most concerned about.  If it is a pretty straight forward/proven process I'd probably do it, but if in practice it rarely goes as smoothly as it should, then this is what might push me towards side by side install.  Had a quick look there and can see some SQL migration to new server guidance but not idea what real world experiences of doing this in the field is like.

    Any further recommendations based on above would be much appreciated to help decision making!!...


    • Edited by new2scom Tuesday, January 16, 2018 9:44 AM
    Tuesday, January 16, 2018 9:37 AM
  • You can install the two new SCOM 2016 management servers and install the web console on them. If you get this working I don't see a reason to start a complete new management group. Beside that: if your web consoles stopped working a couple of URs ago you can aks yourself the question if they are that important. 

    For your SQL you have couple of options:

    1. Upgrade them in-place to a minimum of Windows Server 2012 R2 and possibly even directly to Windows Server 2016. This requires some downtime, but is possible. Saves you failing over to a new server. That only leaves you maybe with an older version of SQL. If something fails in your upgrade you possible need to start your disaster recovery process to move it to another server. Keep that in mind.

    2. Build a new SQL environment, possibly even with AlwaysOn for your OperationsManager and OperationsManagerDW database. Follow the guides how to move the databases to your new servers:
    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-US/library/hh278848.aspx
    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-US/library/hh268492.aspx

    This requires less downtine, only the time needed for the failover. 

    • Marked as answer by new2scom Tuesday, January 16, 2018 10:37 AM
    Tuesday, January 16, 2018 9:53 AM
  • Thats for the additional advice.  Yes I like the idea of standing up the new SQL environment ahead of time and then moving the databases over to them - our SQL guys like to do all the build/config of instances they need to manage (as in my case) and have their of preferences for Mirroring/Always On scenarios - so that approach fits well with how we work internally.

    Now to try jot down a plan to piece all the steps together

    Thanks again for the advice!!!...

    Tuesday, January 16, 2018 10:37 AM

  • An in-place upgrade on new management servers. Install a new SCOM 2016 server and add this to the existing management group. When finished make sure you move all agent and console connectivity over to the new severs and remove the old SCOM 2012 R2 management servers. The advantage is that you can go for Windows Server 2016 as OS (assuming that you don't have this yet).


    Hi - sorry for reopening thread but can i quickly clarify your reply above.  When you say installing SCOM 2016 mgmt server into existing (SCOM 2012R2) mgmt group, is that correct?, ie build 2 Windows 2016 servers, install SCOM 2016 and add to SCOM2012R2 mgmt group - or do you mean add Windows Server 2016 server(s) with SCOM 2012R2 installed into existing SCOM 2012R2 mgmt group, then can move agents to the Windows 2016 server for management and then in-place upgrade that server from SCOM 2102R2 to 2016.  Apologies if stupid question - just wanted to be sure I'm following you as am about to try this out in my build - have a couple of windows Server2016 machines build and ready to install either SCOM 2012R2 or SCOM 2016 on them to add to my 2012R2 mgmt group...

    Thanks again...


    Wednesday, January 31, 2018 9:32 AM
  • It's the first one: so install a W2K16 server and install SCOM 2016 and when asked what to do mention that you want to connect it to an existing management group.
    • Marked as answer by new2scom Thursday, February 1, 2018 10:54 AM
    Thursday, February 1, 2018 10:14 AM
  • Perfect - thanks for confirming!!!  Cheers...
    • Marked as answer by new2scom Thursday, February 1, 2018 10:54 AM
    • Unmarked as answer by new2scom Thursday, February 1, 2018 10:54 AM
    Thursday, February 1, 2018 10:53 AM
  • Their might be one thing that is still important and quite often forgotten: your database server.

    For SCOM 2016 this needs a minimum of Windows Server 2012 R2 (yes the OS). If your server(s) is not yet on Windows Server 2012 R2 you can do an-place upgrade as well. Make sure you have proper backups before you start. You can also install new database server(s) and move the database from your old to the new and failover your management servers to use the new instance. Follow these two guides for more info on that subject:

    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-US/library/hh278848.aspx

    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-US/library/hh268492.aspx

    Thursday, February 1, 2018 10:59 AM
  • Hi again,

    sorry for opening up this thread again, but I've hit an issue which I'm hoping you may be able to answer.  If more appropriate I can open a fresh question on this.

    Anyway I've just followed the steps for testing the inplace migration of my PreProd infrastructure.  So I got 2 new Windows 2016 servers build.  Our SQL guys installed SQL 2016 one one of these and we have completed the steps to move the OperationsManager and OperationsManagerDW databases to this SQL 2016 box.  Everything operational after DB relocation.

    So am now trying to install SCOM 2016 on the other new Windows 2016 server - and intending to connect to existing SCOM 2012R! mgmt group.  At the point in this installation were its asking me to configure the operational database, I enter the new servername which now hosts my databases (leaving standard server port as 1433).  It seems to recognise this as the correct server (any other wrong servername gives a red X) but the Database name dropdown does not populate with the OperationsManager DB name as expected and I cant manually type it in - so at this point cant click the 'Next' button to continue the remainder of the mgmt server install.

    Is there anything obvious I have ommitted or things I can check.  I plan to ask our SQL guys to check permissions all replicated but I'm pretty confident they did have all settings/security config from 'old' SQL server replicated over to new SQL server.

    Any advice much appreciated (again!!)...

    Wednesday, February 28, 2018 3:25 PM
  • You are not supposed to add a SCOM 2016 server to a SCOM 2012R2 management group (and you cannot call this an "in place upgrade")...
    Wednesday, February 28, 2018 3:42 PM
  • Are you sure - that's not what some of the other guys are advising earlier in this post (if I'm understanding them correctly).

    Also just checked some of the microsoft documentation which also seems to confirm scom 2016 coexistance is supported with 2012R2 (which is what i have) as per here https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/system-center/scom/plan-system-requirements?view=sc-om-1801 (near the bottom)?...

    Thursday, March 1, 2018 8:43 AM
  • My bad, I didn't know about this, that's an interesting point indeed... never tested it though.

    And it sounds a bit weird since the upgrade does "things" inside the database... I would have thought it prevented coexistence

    edit : this blog by Kevin Holman seems to say that "coexistence" is poorly chosen term for "side by side environments" : https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/kevinholman/2018/02/09/whats-versions-of-scom-can-be-upgraded-to-operations-manager-1801/

    ... still not very clear though

    • Edited by CyrAz Thursday, March 1, 2018 10:02 AM
    Thursday, March 1, 2018 9:58 AM
  • I have just bounced all servers inc the new SQL host and retried the install of the SCOM 2016.  Unfortunately I'm still hitting the same issue when trying to connect to the exisiting 2012 mgmt group - when configuring the connection to Operational database (OperationsManager) it seems to recognise the new SQL 2016 server host, but the database does not appear in the dropdown list.

    Just as a random check, I tried running the setup for an additional 2012 mgmt server connecting to the same 2012 mgmt group.  At the same point of configuring connection to Operational database, everything behaved the same however I AM able to see/select the OperationManager database from the dropdown list!!

    Not sure if this helps assist my situation - other than it does appear the coexistence with 2016 mgmt server with and older 2012 R2 mgmt group is not as seemless as hoped.  PS I'm running at UR13 in my mgmt group which hopefully meets any minimum coexistence criteria.


    • Edited by new2scom Thursday, March 1, 2018 12:51 PM
    Thursday, March 1, 2018 11:58 AM
  • I'm not following you... you basically say that it works when trying to add a 2012 management server; and then that it appears that coexiestence between 2012 and 2016 works as hoped. 

    That doesn't sound very logical :D

    Thursday, March 1, 2018 12:04 PM
  • Sorry - should read "coexistence with 2016 mgmt server with and older 2012 R2 mgmt group is not as seemless as hoped"... (will edit original post).

    So basically yes - the documentation and other advice on this thread has said the addition of SCOM 2016 mgmt server into 2012 R2 mgmt group should work, however I'm having difficulty getting it to work in my situation for some unknown reason.  Hope that clarifies...

    Thursday, March 1, 2018 12:50 PM
  • Hello,

    I think we're confusing the terms here. To put on the table your findings as I understand:

    1. You tried to connect the SCOM 16 MS to SCOM 12 MG - doesn't work.

    2. You tried to connect the SCOM 12 MS to SCOM 12 MG - works.

    Is this correct? Hopefully so, and I was and am still skeptical about you can even connect a 16 MS to a 12 MG. I don't think it's that easy as it sounds. Reading earlier posts yes I can see that this way has been suggested to you (quite confidently too), so maybe he has done it personally...but I'll ask for it again, if I were you. Because as I said I'm very skeptical about it. Maybe an article or guide online would be able to convince it.

    The only two options of upgrading SCOM I know are

    1. In-place upgrade (where you upgrade the MS itself, along with everything else)

    2. Side-by-side (aka parallel aka co-existing) upgrade (where you install a new MG altogether and migrate only the agents - no upgrading of the old SCOM infra)

    Now from all the replies here I think we're confusing "co-existence" of two SCOM versions. "co-existence" in my opinion doesn't mean connecting two different versions of SCOM to the same MG, but setting up two different MG's that exist side-by-side.

    @CyrAz :

    >>

    I'm not following you... you basically say that it works when trying to add a 2012 management server; and then that it appears that coexiestence between 2012 and 2016 works as hoped. 

    That doesn't sound very logical :D<<

    I think the OP forgot to add the word "not" in the sentence "Not sure if this helps assist my situation - other than it does appear the coexistance with 2016 mgmt server with an older 2012 R2 mgmnt group is NOT as seamless as hoped."

    :D

    Please feel free to agree/disagree.

    Cheers


    Sam (Please take a moment to "Vote as Helpful" and/or "Mark as Answer" wherever applicable. Thanks!)



    Thursday, March 1, 2018 12:56 PM
  • You can go for the quick way: install SCOM 2012 on your Server 2016 and add it to your existing management group of course. Do an in-place upgrade of that server to SCOM 2016 and with that you upgrade your management group + database to SCOM 2016. Then you can make preparations to either upgrade the rest of your 2012 servers or replace them with new Windows Server 2016 servers. 
    • Edited by RuudvdH Thursday, March 1, 2018 1:00 PM
    Thursday, March 1, 2018 1:00 PM
  • @Sameer, I agree with you, I feel like "coexistence" is misunderstood here. I asked K Holman for clarifications in the comments of his blog, hopefully we'll get an answer :)
    Thursday, March 1, 2018 1:02 PM

  • So basically yes - the documentation and other advice on this thread has said the addition of SCOM 2016 mgmt server into 2012 R2 mgmt group should work, however I'm having difficulty getting it to work in my situation for some unknown reason.

    Can you please point out to the documentation where this is mentioned?

    Cheers


    Sam (Please take a moment to "Vote as Helpful" and/or "Mark as Answer" wherever applicable. Thanks!)

    Thursday, March 1, 2018 1:06 PM
  • I was taking it from here https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/system-center/scom/plan-system-requirements?view=sc-om-1801

    excerpt as per below:

    Supported coexistence

    The following table lists the scenarios in which coexistence between Operations Manager 2016 and earlier versions of Operations Manager is supported.

    Version Management Group Coexistence
    Operations Manager 2012 R2 Yes

    The following table lists the scenarios in which coexistence between Operations Manager 1801 and earlier versions of Operations Manager is supported.

    Version Management Group Coexistence
    Operations Manager 2016 RTM to the latest update rollup Yes
    Operations Manager 2012 R2 to the latest update rollup Yes

    Thursday, March 1, 2018 2:21 PM
  • Hi,

    so yes I understand - can install additional 2012 R2 mgmt server, move agents across on to it for management and then perform an inplace upgrade of it to SCOM 2016?

    If thats the only option available I'm happy to run with it - just thought from previous guidance that it was possible to add the new server as a scom 2016 mgmt server to the existing 2012 r2 Mgmnt group and just migrate agents across to it to do the agent upgrade part (approving from pending mgmt).

    Agree - some of the terminology for coexistence is confusing - I'm familiar with the 'side-by-side' scenario, as I've went that route in the past moving from 2007 to 2012 and again 2012 to 2012 R2, ie distinct management groups and agents can be 'multi-homed' ie monitored by both groups. The previous advice that 2016mgmt server could be joing to 2012R2 mgmt group was somewhat surprising, hence why I asked for confirmation and that excerpt of microsoft documentation did seem to back that up, so I thought it would provide the most painless way to upgrade my environment to 2016.  So that now doesnt look to be the case, but to be honest the alternative of installing SCOM 2012R2 on the new Windows 2016 server and then doing the subsequent inplace upgrade isnt (hopefully) going to be that much more hassle.  Only a few servers to do in my ProProd - it will be a tad more time consuming when doing my production environment so will prob need 6 new Windows 2016 servers built to transfer workloads/roles to and then do inplace upgrades.

    Cheers...


    • Edited by new2scom Thursday, March 1, 2018 4:30 PM
    Thursday, March 1, 2018 2:27 PM
  • Yes, that sounds like the easiest and fastest (also a lot more safer) approach to this.

    Also thanks for the documentation link, I've posted a comment asking the exact meaning of "Coexistence". I will update the thread if I get an answer.

    Till then, best of luck for the upgrade :D

    EDIT: Also maybe you should unmark the current answer marked and mark your new approach as the answer.

    Cheers


    Sam (Please take a moment to "Vote as Helpful" and/or "Mark as Answer" wherever applicable. Thanks!)


    Thursday, March 1, 2018 2:39 PM