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Why Microsoft removed Windows Mail from Windows 7 RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • I would like to ask why Microsoft removed Windows Mail from Windows 7. I tried a lot of email clients and Windows Mail is the best.
    Windows Live Mail simply in its early days of development. I had it for one month. After I found that it is unable to move IMAP folders I gave up.

    Why Microsoft will not make Windows Mail available for download? I copied Windows Vista Windows Mail and it work. But I had to find disk with Vista 64 bit, install it, install all updates and then copy files. And now I have to keep Vista for sake of Windows Mail updates.

    It must be easier way to do this. Please guys. It is kind of application when you forgot that you are actually working with application. You just do your work.
    Wednesday, September 9, 2009 1:06 AM

All replies

  • have you given Thunderbird a chance?  I feel it is vastly superior to Windows Mail.  (Yes i did try it also).  I run Shredder (64bit native Thunderbird) with IMAP to gmail.. works beautifully. 
    Wednesday, September 9, 2009 2:05 AM
  • Thanks for trying to help me

    Yes I tried. I tried it on Windows XP and OE is so much faster coping files from one IMAP account to another. As well by some reason some transferred messages were corrupted with Thunderbird.
    As well very often I receive report with test which is 3 Mb html. OE opens it instantly. TB needs like 5 seconds.

    So I decided do not go with. Of course maybe they release something better with version 3 but as far as I know it still in beta.

    And for many many products Microsoft made much better interface than anyone else. OE is good example. Simple and powerful.

    Vlad
    Wednesday, September 9, 2009 2:25 AM
  • Windows Mail was an exceptional application to be missed and not to many can rival it's interface, speed and reliability. Thunderbird is quite slow with a low resolution interface and can't handle Microsoft accounts very well along with it's fifteen minute sync restriction. Windows live Mail is the downloadable replacement for windows mail and is code based on windows mail. An excelent mail client which handles many protocalls but not as integral as windows mail which had a more professional look and feel to it and again was faster and more reliable.
    Wednesday, September 9, 2009 3:29 AM
  • Windows Mail was an exceptional application to be missed and not to many can rival it's interface, speed and reliability. Thunderbird is quite slow with a low resolution interface and can't handle Microsoft accounts very well along with it's fifteen minute sync restriction. Windows live Mail is the downloadable replacement for windows mail and is code based on windows mail. An excelent mail client which handles many protocalls but not as integral as windows mail which had a more professional look and feel to it and again was faster and more reliable.
    To me Windows Live Mail looks like they deleted all code and started from beginning. As I said when I can't move one IMAP folder inside another IMAP folder on the same account is really big limitation. I have coupld of account and they come in one Inbox. In WLM I have several Inboxes per account. As I said one month I tried to make it comfortable just to avoid situation when I don't like program because it looks different or behave a bit different. Inability to reorganize IMAP folders was last bit.
    Wednesday, September 9, 2009 4:09 AM
  • Hello,

     

    Now Microsoft releases the new Windows Live Mail client to replace the old one. As we know, it is allowed to set hotmail/live account in Windows Mail on Windows Vista. However, this can be achieved by Windows Live Mail client within Windows Live product. You can download via the following hyperlink.

    http://download.live.com/wlmail

     

    Hope the above information helpful!

    Andy

    Wednesday, September 9, 2009 9:50 AM
  • Thanks for trying to help me

    As well very often I receive report with test which is 3 Mb html. OE opens it instantly. TB needs like 5 seconds.

    And you can do what in five seconds? Does that REALLY cause you a problem?
    Wednesday, September 9, 2009 2:32 PM
  •  Thunderbird is quite slow with a low resolution interface and can't handle Microsoft accounts very well along with it's fifteen minute sync restriction.

    Eh?
    Wednesday, September 9, 2009 2:33 PM
  • Hello,

     

    Now Microsoft releases the new Windows Live Mail client to replace the old one. As we know, it is allowed to set hotmail/live account in Windows Mail on Windows Vista. However, this can be achieved by Windows Live Mail client within Windows Live product. You can download via the following hyperlink.

    http://download.live.com/wlmail

     

    Hope the above information helpful!

    Andy


    The last version of windows live mail had to be run in compatability mode. Does this hold true for the new version?
    Wednesday, September 9, 2009 4:15 PM
  • Thanks for trying to help me

    As well very often I receive report with test which is 3 Mb html. OE opens it instantly. TB needs like 5 seconds.

    And you can do what in five seconds? Does that REALLY cause you a problem?

    Well I receive couple of reports per day. Sometimes I need to find specific report or compare them or just need to find trend.  The faster it render the faster I will find proper one. Sometimes I acceidently click on report.

    I actually was wrong. By email we send summary of report which is around 36 Kb with a lot of pictures embedded (graphs). OE handles it instantly. TB very slow.
    Wednesday, September 9, 2009 8:48 PM
  • Hello,

     

    Now Microsoft releases the new Windows Live Mail client to replace the old one. As we know, it is allowed to set hotmail/live account in Windows Mail on Windows Vista. However, this can be achieved by Windows Live Mail client within Windows Live product. You can download via the following hyperlink.

    http://download.live.com/wlmail

     

    Hope the above information helpful!

    Andy


    Well downloaded, installed. All issues I found and reported to Microsoft in January still there. Main one that I can't move IMAP folders still there. The funniest thing that all email clients (which support IMAP) I checked can do it.  Onle WLM can't. And to me it is show stopped. OE and Windows Mail can do it on the same IMAP server. In fact as said only one client had problems. It is WML.
    Other issues still there: Hard to see selection, Only From field is bold when message is unread. When message is read it has gray color which is hard to read etc. Maybe after another 9 month they will fix it.
    Wednesday, September 9, 2009 9:05 PM
  • I just installed the new version and had to run it in compatability mode for XP.
    Wednesday, September 9, 2009 9:10 PM
  • Does anyone know if Windows Live Mail has native 64 bit version? Windows Mail has this version.
    Wednesday, September 9, 2009 11:41 PM
  • Vlad -

    There are three good reasons why Windows Mail (formerly Outlook Express) was removed from Windows 7.

    1.) There have been an awful lot of companies whining, moaning and gnashing their collective teeth with regards to "fairness" when it comes to stuff that comes bundled with Windows. Stuff like Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer. It would seem to me that this is just Microsoft heading them off at the pass - especially when the EC seems to think it's a good idea to levy huge fines for simply doing what everyone else already does - include a browser and media player in their products.

    2.) Microsoft has offloaded a number of apps previously included in Windows to lighten the "bloat"... Stuff like Windows Messenger, Mail, Photo Gallery, Movie Maker, and the parental controls. Not everyone needs or wants everything from that package. Rather than preinstall things and then have to set up the means to remove them - it's easier to just have them as separate, yet free downloads.

    3.) All of these apps are fully separate from Windows and as such, the people working on them are free from the constraints of getting them out only when a new version of Windows is released. Things can be updated and improved more often this way. That and since they're separate, they can make one version for multiple OS's...
    Thursday, September 10, 2009 1:34 AM
  • Vlad -

    There are three good reasons why Windows Mail (formerly Outlook Express) was removed from Windows 7.

    1.) There have been an awful lot of companies whining, moaning and gnashing their collective teeth with regards to "fairness" when it comes to stuff that comes bundled with Windows. Stuff like Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer. It would seem to me that this is just Microsoft heading them off at the pass - especially when the EC seems to think it's a good idea to levy huge fines for simply doing what everyone else already does - include a browser and media player in their products.

    2.) Microsoft has offloaded a number of apps previously included in Windows to lighten the "bloat"... Stuff like Windows Messenger, Mail, Photo Gallery, Movie Maker, and the parental controls. Not everyone needs or wants everything from that package. Rather than preinstall things and then have to set up the means to remove them - it's easier to just have them as separate, yet free downloads.

    3.) All of these apps are fully separate from Windows and as such, the people working on them are free from the constraints of getting them out only when a new version of Windows is released. Things can be updated and improved more often this way. That and since they're separate, they can make one version for multiple OS's...

    This is perfectly valid. I didn't really ask to put it back as part of the Windows. Just give me option to download offical and supported version from MS.
    I will be more than happy. Please don't suggest me Windows Live Mail. It looks like it partially based on Outlook Express code but somehow it works and looks and behaves completelly different from OE.
    Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:56 AM
  • Another satisfied customer! Well I'm curios vlad and am going to test an IMAP account and see about the folders. 
    Thursday, September 10, 2009 5:11 AM
  • Maybe you will be lucky :) I tried with GMail IMAP server and hMailServer. In both cases got Unknown Error. OE and WM works just fine with both.
    And it didn't even possible to drag folder inside another folder. It simply not supported. You can do it only via File|Folder|Move menu.

    Vlad

    P.S. Forgot to write that WLM is extremly slow with Gmail IMAP account. OE just slow.
    Thursday, September 10, 2009 5:32 AM
  • There are three good reasons why Windows Mail (formerly Outlook Express) was removed from Windows 7.

    2.) Microsoft has offloaded a number of apps previously included in Windows to lighten the "bloat"... Stuff like Windows Messenger, Mail, …
    I think you are not right.

    In x86 version see folder "C:\Program Files\Windows Mail\" - there is "Windows Mail", complete with all necessary files – including hidden file "WinMail.exe".

    In x64 Version you have it twice "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Mail\" and "C:\Program Files\Windows Mail\".

    And when you replace "msoe.dll" with the corresponding x86 or x64 file from Vista then "Windows Mail" works fine.
    You only need to run the hidden file "C:\Program Files\Windows Mail\WinMail.exe"
    Friday, September 11, 2009 7:26 PM
  • I think you are not right.

    In x86 version see folder "C:\Program Files\Windows Mail\" - there is "Windows Mail", complete with all necessary files – including hidden file "WinMail.exe".

    In x64 Version you have it twice "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Mail\" and "C:\Program Files\Windows Mail\".

    And when you replace "msoe.dll" with the corresponding x86 or x64 file from Vista then "Windows Mail" works fine.
    You only need to run the hidden file "C:\Program Files\Windows Mail\WinMail.exe"

    Konst -

    The thing is - Windows Mail in Windows 7 has a very limited functionality - it's there to manage your contacts. That is, until you replace the MSOE.DLL file - which contains the remaining functionality.  
    Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:38 AM
  • Seems to me we really should not have to perform as many hacks and workarounds like this. Just recently posted was a workaround for the side bar, for mail,  recycle bin icons, icon sizing, taskbar previews, quick launch, classic start menu, and thats just the begining. All of these should be user configurable. 

    Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:11 AM
  • Seems to me we really should not have to perform as many hacks and workarounds like this. Just recently posted was a workaround for the side bar, for mail,  recycle bin icons, icon sizing, taskbar previews, quick launch, classic start menu, and thats just the begining. All of these should be user configurable. 


    Alternatively, people should not perform so many hacks and actually try to use the OS as designed.  Most of these hacks are just to make something act like an OS that is now two versions out of date.  They will almost certainly lead to complaints from some down the line when they have unintended consequences.  Why should everthing be user configurable anyway, especially since I have yet to see a comment where configurable means anything other than make it act like XP?  Personally, it sounds like we should have an OS that acts like every OS they have ever made, which many people would then claim is slow and bloated?  Where does it end?  Can I demand that it load Microsoft Plus, or how about that it act like Windows 3.1?  For that matter, I demand that I be able to buy an aerodynamic hybrid car with at least eight cylinders that runs on (leaded) regular gasoline, ethanol, and biodiesel, is also a convertible with fins, and has a sound system that will play CD's DVDs, flash drives, tapes, 8-tracks, and vinyl.  Sorry, but yes the OS has continued to evolve.  One can always use a Mac if one wants an OS GUI that has kept is look and feel from iteration to iteration.  Maybe the Windows interface wasn't as refined at first, but regardless of that, Microsoft has at least worked to continue enhance it. 

    Stephen
    Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:07 AM
  • Stephen's post could / should be copied to quite a lot of threads on this forum.
    I agree totally.

    You're not alone Stephen

    Cheers
    Rem
    Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:14 AM
  • Two examples. One. We should not have to hack/workaround for quick launch. But we have to because icons don't adhere to it. Two. We should not have to hack icon size but we do because windows decides what size they will be for folders even if we apply the size to all folders globally. And as stephan says we should just use the operating system as it is designed but there are to many design limitations.
    Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:23 AM
  •  Thunderbird is quite slow with a low resolution interface and can't handle Microsoft accounts very well along with it's fifteen minute sync restriction.

    Eh?

    Exactly!  The whole reason i use Thunderbird for imap was because it was much faster and had features the windows mail did not have... Did you try the 3.x version?  I have well over 1GB of mail in my imap.. and it is fast as lightning.

    Oh well.
    Monday, September 14, 2009 4:29 PM
  • Alternatively, people should not perform so many hacks and actually try to use the OS as designed.


    Why should everthing be user configurable anyway, especially since I have yet to see a comment where configurable means anything other than make it act like XP?
    You're right, Windows Live was deliberately designed without message rules since users can just manually move inbox messages one at a time.

    Has it occurred to you that people want it to work like XP because that OS was designed by people who understood usability?

    Your post is typical MS arrogance: "There's no need to test features with actual users. We know better than them how they should use a computer."


    Sunday, January 24, 2010 1:36 PM
  • Has it occurred to you that people want it to work like XP because that OS was designed by people who understood usability?

    Your post is typical MS arrogance: "There's no need to test features with actual users. We know better than them how they should use a computer."

    I couldn't agree more.

    You have exactly put into words what more and more loyal MS-users feel nowadays.


    Regards Picsoe
    Sunday, January 24, 2010 7:18 PM
  • Alternatively, people should not perform so many hacks and actually try to use the OS as designed.


    Why should everthing be user configurable anyway, especially since I have yet to see a comment where configurable means anything other than make it act like XP?
    You're right, Windows Live was deliberately designed without message rules since users can just manually move inbox messages one at a time.

    Has it occurred to you that people want it to work like XP because that OS was designed by people who understood usability?

    Your post is typical MS arrogance: "There's no need to test features with actual users. We know better than them how they should use a computer."



    hi ,

    t was what most people wanted , ... its a free easy to use mail application , f you want more buy out look or some office suite , ...

    there is no typical arrogance in his post , ... and since his post does not say anything about one or more official statements from Microsoft dont blame him , ... (!)

    have a nice day
    Scan with OneCare + 50 Windows 7even Tips + Plagued by the Privacy Center? REMOVE IT + Threat Research & Response Blog + Sysinternals Live tools + TRANSLATOR+ Photosynth + Microsoft Security + Microsoft SUPPORT + PIVOT from Live Labs + Microsoft Live Labs + Office 2010 beta + Get Windows LIVE!
  • t was what most people wanted , ... its a free easy to use mail application , f you want more buy out look or some office suite , ...


    People liked Outlook Express !
    And Windows Mail was a good replacement.
    But instead of letting us have it, MS decided to replace it by WLM that does not compare in any way to WM (or OE).

    The same goes for WLMM !
    People loved Windows Movie Maker.
    But instead of letting us have it, MS decided to replace it by WLMM that does not compare in any way to WMM.

    WLPG is maybe the better one of the Live Collection, but MS does nothing with the valuable suggestions for improvement that users make. 

    If MS is listening to the users, then I wonder which users it is listening to ! It are in any way not those who participate in beta testings and Technical Previews.

    I think that MS should blow up the whole bunch of Live Programs and start them all over from scratch, that is if they are willing to listen to the users this time.

    I had to have this off my chest.



    Regards Picsoe
    Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:02 PM
  • t was what most people wanted , ... its a free easy to use mail application , f you want more buy out look or some office suite , ...


    People liked Outlook Express !
    And Windows Mail was a good replacement.
    But instead of letting us have it, MS decided to replace it by WLM that does not compare in any way to WM (or OE).

    The same goes for WLMM !
    People loved Windows Movie Maker.
    But instead of letting us have it, MS decided to replace it by WLMM that does not compare in any way to WMM.

    WLPG is maybe the better one of the Live Collection, but MS does nothing with the valuable suggestions for improvement that users make. 

    If MS is listening to the users, then I wonder which users it is listening to ! It are in any way not those who participate in beta testings and Technical Previews.

    I think that MS should blow up the whole bunch of Live Programs and start them all over from scratch, that is if they are willing to listen to the users this time.

    I had to have this off my chest.



    Regards Picsoe

    hi ,

    hey dont jump on me , take it up with the live team , ....

    http://livecom.spaces.live.com/

    http://morethanmail.spaces.live.com/

    http://mailcall.spaces.live.com/

    http://windowslivewire.spaces.live.com/

    have a nice day

    actually there was a big research on it , just cause you for example do not like it , they cared for what got over 90 percent in votes back then , ... and the beta was running hot


    Scan with OneCare + 50 Windows 7even Tips + Plagued by the Privacy Center? REMOVE IT + Threat Research & Response Blog + Sysinternals Live tools + TRANSLATOR+ Photosynth + Microsoft Security + Microsoft SUPPORT + PIVOT from Live Labs + Microsoft Live Labs + Office 2010 beta + Get Windows LIVE!
  • actually there was a big research on it , just cause you for example do not like it , they cared for what got over 90 percent in votes back then , ... and the beta was running hot
    Sure !

    And how many of the requests, the suggestions for improvement, the supplications, the beggings of the beta testers have made it into the products so far ?


    Regards Picsoe
    Monday, January 25, 2010 12:13 PM
  • actually there was a big research on it , just cause you for example do not like it , they cared for what got over 90 percent in votes back then , ... and the beta was running hot
    Sure !

    And how many of the requests, the suggestions for improvement, the supplications, the beggings of the beta testers have made it into the products so far ?


    Regards Picsoe

    hi ,

    more then you think , .......

    actually nearly all , the same with nearly all the live programs , to get them all click the link ' get windows live ' in my signature

    they did the same on vista and on 7even , when i first started with the vista beta i had about 4 things i wanted changed , they did 3 of them ,.... the 4 was allready done and released the next week , ... on 7 i asked for a few things , well they are in them now , take a look at microsoft research , link below in my sig ' photosynth ' and
    ' pivot from live labs ' , the beta office 2010 , sharepoint , forefront , in all those cases Microsoft did listen and continues to listen to its users (!)

    you can participate also in beta testing , the advanced level is more or less on a case by case basis , and studies are done , trials go on at all levels of testing , feedback is taken seriously , i can vouch for that !

    have a nice day
    Scan with OneCare + 50 Windows 7even Tips + Plagued by the Privacy Center? REMOVE IT + Threat Research & Response Blog + Sysinternals Live tools + TRANSLATOR+ Photosynth + Microsoft Security + Microsoft SUPPORT + PIVOT from Live Labs + Microsoft Live Labs + Office 2010 beta + Get Windows LIVE!
  • Maybe I didn't use Windows Live Mail long enough but when I found out that each and every account had it's separate folders had to looked at the rules setup for each acc. ........ it was to much to try to sync and went to Thunderbird.

    Now, I'm looking at the mentioned (most everywhere) hacks to try and get the old Vista mail working in my newly installed Win 7 :-)

     

     


    If you dial a wrong number, you never get a busy signal.
    Friday, September 2, 2011 3:06 PM
  • I have Thunderbird i cannot stand it and would love to have Windows mail back
    Monday, June 1, 2015 12:44 PM