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Windows 7 backup is NOT incremental RRS feed

  • Question

  • In this thread , Microsoft Program Manager from the Storage Division Christine states that the Windows Backup utility included in Windows 7 RTM works incrementally, making all backups after the first take significantly less time. I would like to state that it is impossible for this to be the case.

    I have a Windows 7 Ultimate RTM x64 system and have been using the Windows Backup utility with a 1 TB external drive for about three weeks now. My PC has two 500 GB hard drives. On the first drive, my C: partition is about 160 GB, 50 GB of which is used. The second hard drive contains redirected user data and public folders, and is using about 300 GB.

    Now, while I do have a lot of data on the second hard drive, a huge majority of that is video files and movies that I've had for years. These files do not change. The only files that change are various Excel and Word files stored in mine and my fiancees profile folders. I would say a maximum of 10 MB is created or changes from week-to-week since I've started Windows Backup. Yet as of 8:14am, the backup job has been running just shy of 6.25 hours and is at 32%. I saw in the progress indicator that it was backing up a video file I've had on my computer for two years. This prompted me to check many of the files in the Public folders, where a large percentage of my data is stored. *ALL* of the files still had the "File is ready for archiving" box checked. Shouldn't this box be unchecked? I suppose it's possible that the Windows Backup program is designed to do incremental backups, backing up only new or modified files each time after the first. But how can it do that if the archive flag isn't cleared when the files are backed up?

    I suspect that my USB 2.0-only external hard drive could be a bottleneck here, and I understand how the first backup could take a very long time. But not the rest. Not if they are incremental.
    Monday, January 25, 2010 1:25 PM

All replies

  • Hi Scott,

    There is a related where the incremental backup issue has been reported:
    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itprogeneral/thread/50f3ff7a-2ae7-41c1-ac92-41edaed1e2f9

    As part of follow up with customer on that, we found that there is an issue with "Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service" updating the ChangeTime of all files under c:\Users\Public folder every time machine is rebooted or resumed from sleep. Disabling this service helped avoid future incrementals becoming huge.

    Since you seem to have these files under Public folder, I suspect whether you are running into the same issue. Can you pl. check if this is the case and let me know?

    Thanks,
    Sriram [MSFT]



    Monday, January 25, 2010 3:58 PM
  • I read through the entirety of the thread you linked and it seems that disabling that service does indeed fix the incremental backup issue, but one of the posts over there from a user named "sgeeena" seems to indicate that after doing this it breaks all or some of the Windows Media Center/Windows Media Center Extender functionality.  I would like to state that I do use the Windows Media Center Extender functionality on my Xbox 360 as tied in with this PC running Windows 7 Ultimate x64 that I am trying to back up.

    I would like to repeat that user's question "...are you telling us that these two features (backup/restore and media sharing) are exclusive of each other ... i can only have one or the other?"  I need the backup functionality to back up the media and other files that are on that machine and I don't want it to take half a day each time, but I also need the Windows Media Center functionality of that PC to use the media.

    It seems strange to me that this Windows Backup solution would utilize the ChangeTime attribute of files instead of the Archive bit when the Archive bit is a tried-and-true solution and the ChangeTime attribute is updated by one of Microsoft's indexers on every reboot or resume.  Is this going to be fixed?  The current implementation of Windows Backup is essentially broken.

    Is there somewhere else I can officially voice my displeasure to Microsoft regarding this?
    Monday, January 25, 2010 4:46 PM
  • Scott,

    Until either of the issues get fixed, both these features cannot work together. We are aware of this limitation and are doing the best we can to resolve it earliest.

    Until we have a fix from our side, the only workaround possible is to not have the media + other files under Public folder. Instead have them in any other folder that can be shared and include them in backup. This is because the ""Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service" issue is constrained to only files under Public.

    Thanks,
    Sriram [MSFT]
    Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:52 AM
  • I appreciate the reply.  I am glad to know that Microsoft is acknowledging this is as a problem.  Have you heard any word on if there is a fix in the pipeline, and if so, can we expect it sooner rather than later?
    Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:14 PM
  • Scott,

    We are aware of the incovenience caused.

    Will keep the forum posted whenever we the fix for this is out.

    Thanks,
    Sriram [MSFT]

    Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:15 AM
  • Windows Media Player Network Sharing?

    I will try this, because I have the same problem. After the backup, files in the public folders remain "ready for archiving". BTW, I do not have any device on the network, which can be used for "Windows Media Player Network Sharing", turning it off is not a problem for me.

    I will check it next sunday, when the backup runs again.

    ps.: This is my second Win7 install (exactly, the PC is the same, but HDD has been replaced), but as I remember, the first one did worked well. I do not remember, if "Media Player Network Sharing" was turned on or off.

    Monday, May 17, 2010 6:25 PM
  • Thank you for the update.

    - Esteban

     

     

     


    "There's a time and place for that. The time is... Never. You can figure out the place on your own".
    Wednesday, June 23, 2010 11:46 PM
  • Well, I have turned Windows media sharing off, and now it works fine. Backup size is reduced, so it solved the problem. The only strange thing is, that every file has the "archive" flag turned on, it looks like, Win7 backup does not rely on that flag.

     

     

     

     

    Thursday, June 24, 2010 3:19 PM
  • vlevi,

    I go into that a bit in my post from Jan. 25. at 4:46pm.  Windows 7 Backup and Restore relies on a NTFS attribute called "ChangeTime" rather than the Archive bit to determine when a file needs to be backed up.  Personally I do not understand this decision as the Archive bit has worked well for years, doubly so when you consider that one of Microsoft's own services alters the ChangeTime on certain files on a frequent basis.

    Monday, August 16, 2010 12:41 PM
  • I've been bit by this too. Any ETA on a fix? Is there a Connect bug open?
    Monday, September 13, 2010 3:52 PM
  • I do not believe, that this issue "Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service" updating the ChangeTime of all media files" is still exists :(

    Until now, it was not a problem for me, because I did not have any device to share with. But since a few days, I have a new television, which is capable of playing media files through DLNA. I have tried to use it, it works (nearly) fine with Win7 media player network sharing service, but now nearly everything (5-6Gigs) is backed up, instead of the regular 2-300Mbyte backups. So, I disabled this service :(

    Is there a chance to solve this issue in the near future? As I see, this problem is known for more than a year :(

     

     

    Tuesday, December 7, 2010 1:54 PM
  • In Vista Ultimate there was an incremental backup which I used nightly.  In Win 7 Ultimate the nightly backups are not incremental and consume a 2 TB disk rather quickly.  This is one of those changes that is extremely irritating.  Please return to the Vista Ultimate methodology for incremental backup! 
    Wednesday, January 12, 2011 6:50 PM
  • I have unmarked SriramB's post as the answer because this issue is not resolved.  A workaround like this is not an answer.

    I can't believe I posted this more than a year ago, Microsoft has acknowledged the issue, and it is still not fixed.

    Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:46 AM
  • Apologies for the delay.

    The issue with "Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service" updating the ChangeTime of all files under c:\Users\Public folder every time machine is rebooted or resumed from sleep has been fixed in Windows7 SP1. Once this fix is installed, there is no need to disable this service inorder to prevent Windows7 Backup from backing up files under Public folder as part of every incremental backup.

    Thanks,

    Sriram [MSFT]

     


    Sriram [MSFT]
    • Proposed as answer by User 01 Monday, May 23, 2011 4:49 PM
    Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:21 PM
  • Thanks so much, Sriram, for letting us know. I'm grateful this issue is resolved.

    But, since I prefer to install each update, patch and fix separately (or decline to do so), I'm interested in finding the fix you mentioned. I've searched the Knowledge Base high and low, to no avail. Could you help me (and I'm sure some others) out with a link or KB#?

    Thx in advance!

    Thursday, May 5, 2011 11:00 PM
  • I also could use the link to the update/patch to fix this problem.
    Saturday, May 7, 2011 2:12 AM
  • Long ago I moved on to Acronis True Image Home for my backup solution.  Can anyone else confirm that SP1 for Windows 7 solves this issue?  If so, I will go ahead and mark SriramB[MSFT]'s response on 4/24/11 as the answer.
    Monday, May 23, 2011 7:29 PM
  • I have backed up for 2 weeks now.

    Disabling "Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service" did in fact reduce the size of my backup tremendously.

    However over the past 2 backups my overall size increased by 5 or so GB.

    Any other ideas as to what could be causing this increase?

    Tuesday, May 24, 2011 12:47 PM
  • I have a fresh install of Win 7 pro 64, service pack 1 and it still does NOT do an incremental backup.  I also do not keep my music, pictures, and video in the public folder. 

    This seems like it would be an easy fix since they had it working in previous versions.

    Friday, July 1, 2011 5:47 PM
  • Try updating your system.  I had this issue as well with Windows 7, once i updated it was resolved.  Also you may wish to switch to acronis as a solution, i found it much more reliable for backups.  check on a decent video of it here
    Wednesday, July 6, 2011 3:01 AM
  • Agreed. I've got Win 7 Ultimate SP1 and my backups are ALWAYS full. Annoying.
    Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:47 PM
  • Running Microsoft Windows 7 Professional Service Pack 1 64-bit Operating System I observe the following behavior:

    1. Run "Back up now" from the "Backup and Restore" Control Panel. Backup is performed using all default settings to a USB 2.0 connected 1 TB drive.

    2. Backup completes with errors that some files are not backed up. In my case, this due to Microsoft Windows Backup being incompatible with Microsoft Windows Libraries and subsequently Zune. For details see http://support.microsoft.com/kb/979281.

    3. After completion, immediately run "Back up now" again. This takes an excessive amount of time and the "View Details" dialog box shows files being backed up that were unchaged from the backup performed in step 1. Additionally, a long time is spent on "Creating a system image of (C:)." Again, there is no improvement on the speed from the backup performed in Step 1.

    This really needs to be fixed to make Backup and Restore useful for its intended purpose.

    Sunday, January 8, 2012 11:42 PM
  • Hi Scott,

    There is a related where the incremental backup issue has been reported:
    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itprogeneral/thread/50f3ff7a-2ae7-41c1-ac92-41edaed1e2f9

    As part of follow up with customer on that, we found that there is an issue with "Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service" updating the ChangeTime of all files under c:\Users\Public folder every time machine is rebooted or resumed from sleep. Disabling this service helped avoid future incrementals becoming huge.

    Since you seem to have these files under Public folder, I suspect whether you are running into the same issue. Can you pl. check if this is the case and let me know?

    Thanks,
    Sriram [MSFT]




    This needs to be unmarked as an answer as the problem is still not resolved. The incompatibility with "Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service" was at best a partial solution.
    Sunday, January 8, 2012 11:44 PM
  • Same here.
    Thursday, May 17, 2012 2:23 PM
  • Ok, I unmarked the answer.
    Friday, May 18, 2012 12:07 PM