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Sequencing for Windows Vista RRS feed

  • Question

  •  Hi,

    MS claims that compatibility issues will be resolved while sequencing applications with MS APP-V 4.5 but if it doesn’t, how do we handle it.

     1. The Virtual packages we create should work on both XP and Vista. We will be sequencing on Vista and use it on XP and Vista. Here, if we have to include any compatibility shim to make the application work on Vista and because the shim makes changes to make the application work on vista, the virtual package may not work on XP.

    The ideal thing to do is the virtual package should detect the target OS and include the shims only when the OS is Vista. Would like to know the best method to achieve this. (Was my assumption right?)

    2. Later found that compatibility shims can't be installed while we monitor the application installation using sequencer, hence shims can not be used while sequencing an application.


    What do we do for these applications? 

     


    J.Caleb Kirubakaran
    Thursday, February 5, 2009 7:40 AM

Answers

  • Sorry.  If the application does not run natively on Vista, it will very very likely not run on Vista when sequenced. 

    The issue is that your package does not include XP components that didn't change when sequenced.  So system libraries that changed, which are at the root of these incompatibility issues, are not in the package.  In theory you can run a tool like the dependency walker to locate all dependencies and include them in the package.  In practice this probably doesn't work as you end up needing to include something like kernel32.dll - which then interfaces to the OS kernel and I'm guessing the XP one will have a problem running under Vista.

    Microsoft takes a lot of heat for these Vista compatibility issues, but honestly, the things that break are usually apps using proper coding from the 1990's or before.  In order to provide new functionality sometimes these interfaces have to become obsolete.  I was surprised recently to find one of my own apps broken on Vista.  It turned out to be code making socket calls that I originally wrote in 1985 for Unix and had ported over to DOS and then Windows.  For years Microsoft has been giving me warnings that those kind of calls were "Deprecated" (meaning it works now but you should change it because it is obsolete in the future).  In programs I was updating I made those changes, but didn't think to go through everything else - until I saw it was broke.

    For these apps (since you can't break open the source code yourself), if you are on MDOP you might consider using MED-V, currently in Beta and to be released as part of MDOP.  With MED-V you can run the app in a background XP machine (using Virtual PC) and still get the desktop integration similar to App-V.  Not the same, but might do the trick.
    Thursday, February 12, 2009 1:49 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  •   Hello.

    Guidelines for 4.5 version is that you sequence for target platform. Guidelines for older softgrid is that you sequence for oldest platform.
    Now, sequencing on Vista and distributing for XP and Vista breaks both of those recommendations.
    Why do you want todo it in this manner?

    Regarding delivery;
    Now, in the way that you describe it it could be possible to make two applications. Either you deliver them to the correct platform or differenitate the publication to the end-user (XP and Vista in the shortcutname?)

    /Znack
    Thursday, February 5, 2009 7:50 AM
  • Thanks for the reply. Appreciate it.
    J.Caleb Kirubakaran
    Thursday, February 5, 2009 9:22 AM
  • Hello

    As a rule of thumb; as stated, you should always sequence using the same OS running on the computers you plan to deploy the virtual application to.

    Thanks,
    Dan Bernhardt [MSFT]
    Monday, February 9, 2009 7:51 PM
    Answerer
  • Hi Dan,

     Alright.

    Another question. Could we virtualize applications which are not compatible with Windows Vista?

    Because some applications wont even install on Windows Vista machines.In that case how do sequence that application on Windows Vista machine.

    Could you throw light on this concept more as Iam confused what is the solution we could expect from APPV4.5 . Also suggest some MS material regarding the same for my reference.

    Thanks in advance. 


    J.Caleb Kirubakaran
    Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:39 AM
  • Sorry.  If the application does not run natively on Vista, it will very very likely not run on Vista when sequenced. 

    The issue is that your package does not include XP components that didn't change when sequenced.  So system libraries that changed, which are at the root of these incompatibility issues, are not in the package.  In theory you can run a tool like the dependency walker to locate all dependencies and include them in the package.  In practice this probably doesn't work as you end up needing to include something like kernel32.dll - which then interfaces to the OS kernel and I'm guessing the XP one will have a problem running under Vista.

    Microsoft takes a lot of heat for these Vista compatibility issues, but honestly, the things that break are usually apps using proper coding from the 1990's or before.  In order to provide new functionality sometimes these interfaces have to become obsolete.  I was surprised recently to find one of my own apps broken on Vista.  It turned out to be code making socket calls that I originally wrote in 1985 for Unix and had ported over to DOS and then Windows.  For years Microsoft has been giving me warnings that those kind of calls were "Deprecated" (meaning it works now but you should change it because it is obsolete in the future).  In programs I was updating I made those changes, but didn't think to go through everything else - until I saw it was broke.

    For these apps (since you can't break open the source code yourself), if you are on MDOP you might consider using MED-V, currently in Beta and to be released as part of MDOP.  With MED-V you can run the app in a background XP machine (using Virtual PC) and still get the desktop integration similar to App-V.  Not the same, but might do the trick.
    Thursday, February 12, 2009 1:49 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi Tim,

     That was great info..

    The scenario that you explained was, if we sequence the incompatible application on Windows XP right??

    What if we sequence the incompatible application in Windows Vista along with the shims to make the installation and functionality successful??? Could I have a technical explanation why we cant sequence incompatible applications in Windows Vista by adding shims to make the installation and functionality successful.

    Would really appreciate if you could answer this too :) so that I could have a real understanding about the solutions that APPV could offer for this case.

    Good day.


    J.Caleb Kirubakaran
    Friday, February 27, 2009 7:08 AM