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  • Question

  • Hi,

    Using App-V 4.6 SP1 we have sequenced SnagIt 10.0.1.58 (http://www.techsmith.com/snagit) which we have 15 licenses for.

    I have successfully set-up App-V licensing following this article: http://blogs.technet.com/b/appv/archive/2011/05/19/the-ultimate-guide-to-application-licensing-and-provider-policies-for-application-virtualization-4-5.aspx and included the correct Provider Policy in the OSD to enforce the licensing:

    <CODEBASE HREF="RTSP://%SFT_SOFTGRIDSERVER%:554/SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB/SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB_2.sft?Customer=LicensingEnforced"

    As said we have 15 licenses for this software and only 5 people assigned via AD group membership. These people only log onto their own machines (thus 5 concurrent licenses) but for some reason will get the above error now and then.

    Unfortunately many organisations choose not to use the licensing control with App-V as they have site licenses. Working for a smaller company that's not always possible.

    Anyone have any idea's on how I track the root cause of this down as it keeps rearing it's ugly head?

    Thanks,

    RL

     

     

    Wednesday, September 21, 2011 9:52 AM

Answers

  • Can you let me know the Support Issue offline. Please email me the case number at steveth@microsoft.com.

     

    Thanks,

     

    Steve


    Steve Thomas, SSEE, Microsoft
    App-V/MED-V/SCVMM/SCCM/AppCompat
    http://madvirtualizer.wordpress.com/
    The App-V Team blog: http://blogs.technet.com/appv/
    The MED-V Team Blog: http://blogs.technet.com/medv
    The SCVMM Team blog: http://blogs.technet.com/scvmm/

    “This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. User assumes all risks.”
    Friday, October 14, 2011 7:40 PM
  • Hi all,

    We'll after paying out the money I'm not very impressed with Microsoft's official support channel for App-V...

    Straight off the bat we were told that it's not a widely supported product, and that the tech's don't have much experience with it.

    Then we were directed to various blog sites to resolve the situation ourselves.

    Finally we were told to, well, forget it...

    QUOTE
    "Ok, now for a word on the reality of license management, I have found that all the license management systems I have seen in the past suffer from this orphaned sessions problem, this not just an  App-v specific issue. It is due to the client failing to report back that the application has been closed. This can be caused by a computer crashing, Laptop being put into hibernation, the application crashing, etc., some of this can be eliminated by training the end users to gracefully exit the Licensed application or just assume that you are going to see a lot of orphaned sessions and change the “Close Orphaned Sessions” Job to run more often. If you have setup your Licensing configuration to comply with Steve’s blog, and applied all the necessary patches you should be good. That said, you will never have this working perfectly just because of the nature of how it works. Please let me know if you need further assistance from me."
    END QUOTE

    So no-one in Microsoft can create a watcher process!?

    Very poor!

    However the support technician was polite...

     

    So. I guess it's back to Licensing Auditing only

    Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:50 PM

All replies

  • Hello,

    See this KB-article;

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/930614

    Does the provider policy exist?


    /Znack
    Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:40 AM
  • Hi Znack,

    Yep, the Provider Policy exists...

    RL

    Wednesday, September 21, 2011 12:56 PM
  • Hello,

    Sounds great - apart from reverifying your steps against the article above, I don't have any suggestions. Never got it to _not_ work if using that article...
    /Znack
    Wednesday, September 21, 2011 1:07 PM
  • Since the error may be coming from the server (unless it's purely about App-V Client not being able to contact server to verify licensing is valid), have you looked at the server log yet?

     


    best regards,
    Kalle Saunamäki
    Thursday, September 22, 2011 1:24 PM
    Moderator
  • Since the error may be coming from the server (unless it's purely about App-V Client not being able to contact server to verify licensing is valid), have you looked at the server log yet?

     


    best regards,
    Kalle Saunamäki
    Thursday, September 22, 2011 1:24 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi Kalle,

    Funny you say that - I checked the Server logs this morning and discovered the "License Session Setup" sessions outway that of the "License Session Teardown".

    So it looks as if the database is unaware that the app has closed and thus more licenses are locked than actually used.

    For example the following is okay:

    [2011-09-02 14:22:10.411] SERVERNAME 4380 2484 SW_LicenseConduitSQLServer::LogMessage 109446605 LicensingEnforced Username SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB/SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB_2.sft 0 40976 "License Session Setup

    [2011-09-02 14:22:10.427] SERVERNAME 4380 2484 SW_RTSPHandler::HandleSetup 109446605 LicensingEnforced Username SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB/SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB_2.sft 0 40960 "Session Setup

    [2011-09-02 14:22:10.474] SERVERNAME 4380 5708 SW_LicenseConduitSQLServer::LogMessage 109446605 LicensingEnforced Username SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB/SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB_2.sft 0 40977 "License Session Teardown

    [2011-09-02 14:22:10.505] SERVERNAME 4380 5708 SW_RTSPHandler::HandleTeardown 109446605 LicensingEnforced Username SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB/SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB_2.sft 0 40961 "Session Teardown

    -------------

    Then we have some stray sessions that have not been released / Teardown:

    [2011-09-06 03:16:06.256] SERVERNAME 736 584 SW_LicenseConduitSQLServer::LogMessage 1615529777 LicensingEnforced USERNAME SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB/SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB_2.sft 0 40976 "License Session Setup

    [2011-09-06 03:16:06.271] SERVERNAME 736 584 SW_RTSPHandler::HandleSetup 1615529777 LicensingEnforced USERNAME SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB/SnagIT_1001_RL001_MNT_GLB_2.sft 0 40960 "Session Setup

    No teardowns are listed in the log for the above session, and the user has successfully opened and closed new sessions since. There are quit a number of these in the logs.

    This would make sense as the reason why we are denied access (license count exceeded), but whats causing it!?

    Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:22 PM
  • Yes, that would explain the messages on the client.

    Purely speculating here, but is it possible that some of the machines (laptops) are not in the network when user closes the application? App-V Client buffers the usage metering information on the client for later upload if server cannot be reached, but I'm not 100% it works that way for license enforcement data. License enforcing in App-V has always been little flaky and especially not suitable for offline usage scenarios.

     


    best regards,
    Kalle Saunamäki
    Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:37 PM
    Moderator
  • Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:38 PM
    Moderator
  • As I see it - its only three restarts from beeing out - doesn't seem to be a expiration date either... so could be over a long period of time...
    /Znack
    Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:40 PM
  • Sorry - forgot to mention that I've already checked that article (http://blogs.technet.com/b/appv/archive/2010/10/21/kb2447513-the-number-of-concurrent-licenses-are-not-reset-when-the-application-virtualization-management-server-service-restarts.aspx), which is essentially:  (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2447513). Our value was already set correctly as 44951. * (We've didn't have to change it)

    I hope it's not the "flaky" problem you're talking about. - Try telling the boss that one of his major reasons for parting with his cash for App-V (licenses control) doesn't work very well.

    Kalle,

    Do you have any information on the "App-V Client buffers the usage metering information on the client for later upload"? I'd like to read up on that.

    Thanks,

    RL



    • Edited by RL57 Tuesday, September 27, 2011 10:31 AM
    Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:48 PM
  • Do you have any information on the "App-V Client buffers the usage metering information on the client for later upload"? I'd like to read up on that.


     

    I don't know if it has been really published anywhere as such, but during the time when 4.5 came out it was discussed as being one of the enhancements. But there should be a XML formatted file somewhere on the system used by App-V Client for this purpose; Tim would know better as he has written a book about App-V Client..

     


    best regards,
    Kalle Saunamäki
    Thursday, September 22, 2011 3:09 PM
    Moderator
  • From the App-V server logs I filtered out the application in question, then further filtered to show 'License Session' only, and then applied the following highlights:

    • red to the License Session Setup
    • green to the License Session Teardown

    You'll see the balance is quite off....

     

    Thursday, September 22, 2011 3:15 PM
  • Hello,

    The XML-file location is defined within the registry - should be fairly easy to spot if you go through it.

    Any errors relating to the upload should be logged in either application log or the sftlog


    /Znack
    Thursday, September 22, 2011 3:50 PM
  • Do you have any information on the "App-V Client buffers the usage metering information on the client for later upload"? I'd like to read up on that.

    Okay, found a mention of it in the App-V 4.5 Server Sizing Guide: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/appvirtualization/cc843994 (http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/6/1/161042F3-9CDE-45F7-BC20-4FBDA8888890/AppV45_ServerSizingGuide_Final.docx).

    Section 4.4.4 in that document...

     


    best regards,
    Kalle Saunamäki
    Thursday, September 22, 2011 4:00 PM
    Moderator
  • The XML-file location is defined within the registry - should be fairly easy to spot if you go through it.

    You mean the cached metering data file? I couldn't find anything on my client..

     


    best regards,
    Kalle Saunamäki
    Thursday, September 22, 2011 4:01 PM
    Moderator
  • I've raised a support case with MS support. I'll post the outcome here so others may benefit from the findings.

    In the meantime I was advised of a Closed Orphaned Sessions SQL Stored Procedure (sp_SFTclosesessions) with the following description:

    Closes orphaned sessions, license sessions, application usage and any unreleased license assignments that were started (or assigned) prior to the cutoff date/time using the close date/time for the specified SoftGrid server.

    WARNING: Please be aware that running any of these SoftGrid SQL Jobs during production hours may prevent users from accessing their SoftGrid Packages until the job completes. These utilities should be run during non-production hours.

    Reference: http://blogs.technet.com/b/appv/archive/2008/08/04/troubleshooting-softgrid-database-growth-issues.aspx

    Watch this space...

    Tuesday, September 27, 2011 10:36 AM
  • Hi all,

    We'll after paying out the money I'm not very impressed with Microsoft's official support channel for App-V...

    Straight off the bat we were told that it's not a widely supported product, and that the tech's don't have much experience with it.

    Then we were directed to various blog sites to resolve the situation ourselves.

    Finally we were told to, well, forget it...

    QUOTE
    "Ok, now for a word on the reality of license management, I have found that all the license management systems I have seen in the past suffer from this orphaned sessions problem, this not just an  App-v specific issue. It is due to the client failing to report back that the application has been closed. This can be caused by a computer crashing, Laptop being put into hibernation, the application crashing, etc., some of this can be eliminated by training the end users to gracefully exit the Licensed application or just assume that you are going to see a lot of orphaned sessions and change the “Close Orphaned Sessions” Job to run more often. If you have setup your Licensing configuration to comply with Steve’s blog, and applied all the necessary patches you should be good. That said, you will never have this working perfectly just because of the nature of how it works. Please let me know if you need further assistance from me."
    END QUOTE

    So no-one in Microsoft can create a watcher process!?

    Very poor!

    However the support technician was polite...

     

    So. I guess it's back to Licensing Auditing only

    Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:50 PM
  • Hi all,

    We'll after paying out the money I'm not very impressed with Microsoft's official support channel for App-V...

    Straight off the bat we were told that it's not a widely supported product, and that the tech's don't have much experience with it.

    Interesting, so Microsoft's official support channel states that they don't really support it as a product and also that their [support] technicians really don't know much about it as a product?

    But yes, as you have now been told by them the reality is that the license enforcement is not all that useful in App-V as I alredy mentioned earlier. Sad but true.

     


    br,
    Kalle Saunamäki
    http://blog.gridmetric.com/
    Wednesday, September 28, 2011 6:23 PM
    Moderator
  • That's a bit of a drag. I have to say back years ago when needing support I was put in contact with the same guy all the time and he was excellent. More recently, nearly 2 years ago it was a nightmare to try and get support, The people routing the calls didn't know where to send me!

     

    License control has been a bit of a thorn for a long time now. Microsoft were suggesting using third party software for a long time.

    Friday, September 30, 2011 4:09 PM
  • Can you let me know the Support Issue offline. Please email me the case number at steveth@microsoft.com.

     

    Thanks,

     

    Steve


    Steve Thomas, SSEE, Microsoft
    App-V/MED-V/SCVMM/SCCM/AppCompat
    http://madvirtualizer.wordpress.com/
    The App-V Team blog: http://blogs.technet.com/appv/
    The MED-V Team Blog: http://blogs.technet.com/medv
    The SCVMM Team blog: http://blogs.technet.com/scvmm/

    “This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. User assumes all risks.”
    Friday, October 14, 2011 7:40 PM