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Who Decided to Combine the Search Box and Address Bar? RRS feed

  • Question

  • A very wise person once said:

    "Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler!"

    That fundamental rule of design has been volated with Internet Explorer 9.

    I've been using IE9 for about a month now, trying to get used to all the new things.  Performance-wise it's nice, and the changes to security are welcome.  Okay, so the color-management is half baked, and it still has its problems, but I guess it's an improvement.

    But what idiot decided to make the search box and the address field one and the same?

    You think I'm being petty?  Go try to research what a particular file is - for example, go see if you can find info on "bib.dll".

    It wants to make it into a URL.  It's not a URL.  It may LOOK like one, but it's a name, honest! 

    Putting quotes around it doesn't help.  Maybe I'm missing the advanced syntax it takes to get such a thing to be a search term instead of a URL. Even if so, how is this an improvement or simplification?  It's certainly not intuitively obvious how to force a search, short of dredging up a link to Google and typing info in there directly.

    Doing a search and typing in an address are two FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.

    And hey, it's not a big deal that you can no longer see what it was you searched for, and maybe even edit it and search again.  No, because now the search engine pages have to waste space to put up a box showing what you just searched for, since it's now GONE out of the address field.

    How does stuff like this pass a design review?

    And to think the Microsoft Engineers worked extra hard to take it out.

    You Engineers at Microsoft need to take the product back from your moronic marketing people and make it actually work right.

    -Noel

    Wednesday, April 13, 2011 4:45 PM

Answers

  • Noel, after disabling AutoComplete in Internet Options, exit IE9, then re-open IE9.  Now you will discover a bug.  The Search Provider dropdown is absent, as illustrated in my first screenshots above

    I'm afraid I just don't know what you're talking about, derosnec.  Trying to point out something that you feel is missing in a screenshot to someone who has asked what's missing seems wrong to me.  As I mentioned above, either way I configure it I can click on the magnifier icon and see a dropdown.  But I guess this must not be the dropdown that you mean.

    But it doesn't matter, really.  I believe I have found a reasonable solution to both of my complaints about IE9 (lack of separate search box and missing title in the Title Bar)...  

    I think I may be liking the Quero toolbar.  I'll withhold final judgment until I've used it a few days.

    Normally I'm not a big fan of add-ons, but since this one comes with source code I've been able to turn it into just what I want.

    Now my IE9 has both text in the title bar and also a full-time Search box.  Just what I wanted!

    -Noel

    • Marked as answer by Noel Carboni Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:00 PM
    Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:25 AM

All replies

  • Hi Noel,

     

    The search box that was in previous versions of Internet Explorer has been removed in Internet Explorer 9 (IE9). Anything typed will use your default search provider (Bing). You can change the provide via the Tools menu option 'Manage Add-Ons' under the heading 'Search Providers'.

     

    I have tested bib.dll. It will use bib.dll as the key word and list the result with Bing Search. It doesn't make it into a URL. Please make sure your search engine is configured correctly

     

    In addition, Microsoft will take any feedback into account to improve their products. You can send you feedback to: https://connect.microsoft.com/IE

     

    Best Regards,

    Niki


    Please remember to click "Mark as Answer" on the post that helps you, and to click "Unmark as Answer" if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading the thread.
    Friday, April 15, 2011 9:44 AM
  • Maybe I'm missing the advanced syntax it takes to get such a thing to be a search term instead of a URL.


    The search bar functionality is now contained in the Address bar.   It consists of both Search from the Address bar, which has always been there, plus the enhancements of the Search bar which allow us to pick a new search provider before trying to use it. 

    The thing that you are missing is that Search from the Address bar is a mode which can be used either explicitly or implicitly.  That has always been the case.   E.g. searching implicitly occurs when someone enters a partial URL or a host name which can not be looked up by the DNS quickly enough or when they enter more than one word.   Search explicitly occurs via Ctrl-e (so using the Search bar same as before, even when it was an Explorer bar in IE4) or by clicking the Search icon (as if the Address bar looked like the IE7 Search bar), or (as ever) by typing a question mark space (? ) prefix. 

    If you are a keyboard user of the Search bar in IE8 you hardly notice a difference.   In fact, switching back to IE8 from IE9 seems more disorienting IMO.  ; )


    FYI

    Robert
    ---

    Friday, April 15, 2011 2:05 PM
    Answerer
  • Lo and behold today it works with Google.  The other day it did not; it just gave a 404 not found for http://bib.dll.  Perhaps Google changed something recently.

    Oh yeah, typing a ? to force a search is definitely intuitive.  NOT.  But thanks for the tip.

    You guys can say all you want about a combined address and search box being "new and improved", but it's something that should never have been combined.  It's an oversimplification that we most certainly did NOT need.

    My point is still quite valid about keeping the last search terms on screen so they can be modified.

    -Noel


    Saturday, April 16, 2011 5:41 PM
  • My point is still quite valid about keeping the last search terms on screen so they can be modified.


    I'm still on IE8 but I thought that even that was much better in IE9 RC than in the beta.  So, I'm wondering if something was regressed by IE9 RTW or whether you need a configuration change?   For example, I noticed that I could reproduce your complaint in IE8's Search bar simply by unchecking AutoComplete for Forms.   ; )

    Robert
    ---

    Saturday, April 16, 2011 10:44 PM
    Answerer
  • I'm a little confused about your comment...

    How could "even that" be much better in IE9 at all?  There's no separate box within which to maintain said search terms.

    Scenario:

    1.  You type in "Xyzzy Plugh" into the IE8 search box.

    2.  You get a Google or whatever page with a bunch of links (probably to the old game Dungeon).

    3.  You click on a few of them.  After clicking one or two, and drilling down a bit, you decide you want to add a search term, so you go up to the search box and type in an additional term, then press Enter.  Voila, a new search.

    Try to do the same thing with IE9 and you find the place you've typed the search terms now has a URL.  The search terms you originally typed are long gone.

    You might say that in IE9 you can just use the back button to get back to the Google pane, then add something to the search box they've displayed THERE, but...  That's more work, and having to operate the system to work around this shortcoming takes one's mind off of what one is searching for. 

    Like I said, oversimplified.

    -Noel



    Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:40 AM
  • How could "even that" be much better in IE9 at all?  There's no separate box within which to maintain said search terms.


    There wouldn't need to be if they have ported the Search bar as a mode to the Address bar.   As I said I'm not on IE9 now and have never seen IE9 RTW but if the same AutoComplete for Forms list that IE8 has when you start typing and which matches words which are more than 1 character is still shown once you get in the Search bar mode, e.g. either by pressing Ctrl-e, clicking on the Search icon but probably not by just typing question mark space, then it would be essentially the same.   My recollection is that there was nothing like that in IE9 Beta but there was something like that in IE9 RC.   I also had the impression that we could do something with the History items but I am told that clicking on them immediately fires those URL.  If so that would be a lost opportunity to use them to refresh the Search bar input area with their queries, then to be reused by a different search provider by clicking on a different search provider's button, etc.

    FWIW I may get IE9 installed before it is offered to me, I just installed W7sp1 yesterday by selecting it as an optional update.

    In any case the behaviour of the IE8 Search bar makes me assume that in order to see any of that functionality in IE9 that I would have to have AutoComplete for Forms enabled.


    Robert
    ---

    Sunday, April 17, 2011 2:11 PM
    Answerer
  • What I don't follow is the leap you're making between the search terms being already on screen, and having to type a few characters (or press a few back buttons) to get them back again.  These things make all the difference in the world.

    Suppose I've refined my search terms several times?  Maybe I don't remember all the words or what one I started with after following a few links down rabbit holes.  Not HAVING to remember (nor to work to get back to the terms just to revise them) means I can keep my mind more on what I'm doing, not on how to operate the tools.

    Maybe it's just the computer engineer in me, but why would I want to think of a URL in the same way as a search?  They're TWO UTTERLY, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.  One's an address, and one's a search string.  If I know the address I don't need to search for it.  Like water and oil, they just don't mix.

    I feel I'm having to justify why Microsoft shouldn't have done something boneheaded, when it's pretty obvious.

    Perhaps Microsoft envisioned users just randomly typing key sequences into a big box just to see what would happen.  I'm not sure I want to be a part of a computing future where everyone thinks what the computer does is just magic.

    I'll be interested to hear your opinions of IE9 after having actually used it for a while, Robert.  It's actually quite slick, and an improvement overall, but it does have a few big shortcomings.

    -Noel

    Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:13 PM
  • Thanks for illustrating, derosnec.

    I have autocomplete enabled; that has little to do with the issue of needing a separate search box, except that with a separate box there was also a separate control for choosing search provider.

    I have no hope that a search box will return in IE9 - that ship has sailed - but maybe we can hope for getting it back in IE10 as a new "must have" feature!

    Note also that, for a person who does not use tabs the address box goes all the way across...

     

     

    -Noel

    Monday, April 18, 2011 2:41 AM
  • I would like to check my other Search Providers, but I can't.  They're inaccessible when AutoComplete is disabled.

    @ derosnec


    If you disable that part of the UI you need to use the Manage Add-ons, Search Providers part to change your default.   So, it should be doable but less convenient.   Your choice.


    Robert
    ---

    Monday, April 18, 2011 4:21 AM
    Answerer
  • Speak english.

    @ derosnec

    I gave you a workaround that you can use to change the Search provider you get when you invoke Search from the Address bar with question mark space (? ).  


    ---

    Monday, April 18, 2011 2:28 PM
    Answerer
  • Help me out here...  Where does one disable/enable the specific AutoComplete feature you guys are discussing?

    I have "Use inline AutoComplete in the Internet Explorer Address Bar and Open Dialog" set in the Advanced tab of Internet Options. 

    I can press the little magnifier button in the address box.  That brings up a line that shows a couple of search provider icons.  Is this what you're talking about?  As far as I can see it works whether AutoComplete is enabled or disabled.

    -Noel

    Monday, April 18, 2011 6:45 PM
  • Noel, after disabling AutoComplete in Internet Options, exit IE9, then re-open IE9.  Now you will discover a bug.  The Search Provider dropdown is absent, as illustrated in my first screenshots above

    I'm afraid I just don't know what you're talking about, derosnec.  Trying to point out something that you feel is missing in a screenshot to someone who has asked what's missing seems wrong to me.  As I mentioned above, either way I configure it I can click on the magnifier icon and see a dropdown.  But I guess this must not be the dropdown that you mean.

    But it doesn't matter, really.  I believe I have found a reasonable solution to both of my complaints about IE9 (lack of separate search box and missing title in the Title Bar)...  

    I think I may be liking the Quero toolbar.  I'll withhold final judgment until I've used it a few days.

    Normally I'm not a big fan of add-ons, but since this one comes with source code I've been able to turn it into just what I want.

    Now my IE9 has both text in the title bar and also a full-time Search box.  Just what I wanted!

    -Noel

    • Marked as answer by Noel Carboni Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:00 PM
    Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:25 AM
  • And what I'm saying is that I see that dropdown with autocomplete enabled OR disabled.

    So clearly the bug is not universal, or we're doing something different.

    I see no evidence that you actually clicked the magnifier in your screenshot.  That's my point; you're showing something that's missing, but it might only be missing because we have taken different paths to get to our screenshots.

    -Noel



    Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:29 AM
  • DUH.  You think I didn't do that?

    I don't care whether you or Robert are seeing it.  It's not failing here.  I have other problems, but not that one.

    -Noel

    Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:50 AM
  • It's laughable that you would imply that I don't know how to close an application after making a config change. Is this really the level you think at?  It's no wonder you have problems on forums.

    Dude, I even checked the Task Manager to see if iexplore.exe was still running. It wasn't.

    Here is is in pictures:

    http://Noel.ProdigitalSoftware.com/temp/Desktop1.jpg

    http://Noel.ProdigitalSoftware.com/temp/Desktop2.jpg

    http://Noel.ProdigitalSoftware.com/temp/Desktop3.jpg

    http://Noel.ProdigitalSoftware.com/temp/Desktop4.jpg

    Notice I can see the Google and Bing icons just fine in that last screenshot.

    Now, the little magnifier icon goes away once you've got that ? in the address barIs this what you're talking about?  You want it back?  Just delete the ? and it comes back.

    If you want people to be able to follow what you're saying, lay it out step by step.  Put yourself in others' shoes and don't assume they can guess what you're thinking.  You'll get along better with the other children.

    -Noel

    Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:54 PM
  • OK, with that specific setting I see the bug you're describing.

    You have to admit, the setting I was using had all the right words in it.  Perhaps you can use that advanced setting to disable autocomplete and still keep your capability to make a search provider choice.

    Posting the picture was the right idea.  Regarding my not downloading and opening your .mht file...  Why would I choose to download and run (potentially active) content posted by someone with an attitude like yours?  If you don't make your points with direct and easy to understand info people are just not going to listen to you.  It's not their problem, it's yours.

    This whole long worry over a UI element not showing up because of a setting seems rather silly...  In no way have I benefited from knowing about it, and it just served to detract from my original goal with this thread to solve a very real problem.

    And as far as deleting your posts, that's just ridiculous. Why bother even participating on a public forum?

    You should probably try to find other things to do to occupy your time.  It certainly doesn't sound as if you enjoy this.

    -Noel

    Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:59 PM
  • I'm afraid I just don't know what you're talking about, derosnec.  Trying to point out something that you feel is missing in a screenshot to someone who has asked what's missing seems wrong to me.  As I mentioned above, either way I configure it I can click on the magnifier icon and see a dropdown.  But I guess this must not be the dropdown that you mean.

    @ Noel

    I can't remember exactly and as I mentioned I have still not seen IE9 RTW but I think you may also have to uncheck  Search from the Address bar.   Then you could still use  Ctrl-e  (or least type question mark space) to invoke the default search provider with an explicit search from the Address bar (in Address bar mode) but then not be able to see any of the new Search bar UI.  

    So, if you also disable that, perhaps you only see the new Search bar UI when you leave AutoSuggest enabled?   But then instead of just seeing the TypedURLs when you press F4 (which might be all you were expecting to see if you had only done it to have compatibility with the old AutoComplete for the Address bar being unchecked) you also get an AutoComplete filtering of it with whatever you start to type (which would not be compatible)?   BTW also notice that you can still see the full TypedURLs list by pressing Ctrl-o, F4, for a workaround which avoids the AutoComplete entirely but still allows you to use TypedURLs fully.   Then one wonders why the Address bar dropdown arrow could not still show the same list for even more compatibility.   ; )

    Also, note that there is another possible part of the puzzle inexplicably put in the Options, Advanced tab, e.g. when you want to allow implicit searches from the Address bar but not with ones which appear initially not to satisfy a quick DNS lookup test (such as entering Intranet URLs without also entering a protocol prefix--I think the new option label actually implies that's what it is for).   In IE8 the wording for what is presumably the same registry switch is, in its Search from the Address bar section:  Do not submit unknown addresses to your auto-search provider


    FYI

    Robert
    ---

    Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:02 PM
    Answerer
  • Our posts crossed in the wire, Robert.

    I was using a different setting to deconfigure autocomplete on the address bar.  I see the problem with the setting pictured above.

    I didn't know about the other setting because I was unwilling to run dеrоѕnес's content he tried to push on me to download.

    And as I showed above, the Quero toolbar package has solved my issue with the use of a separate box, using otherwise empty space to the right of the menus.  I still have some tweaking to do, but given the source code I can turn it into exactly what I need.

    -Noel


    Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:06 PM
  • So what if I can pop up the document title from the DOM using Javascript?

    Did you not look at the pictures I posted above?  I have solved the problem of putting the page title on the title bar.

    -Noel

    Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:15 PM
  • It's fine by me whether your posts are here or gone.

    And yes, I looked at the APIs.  I'm just too short on time to code a whole new Add-on from scratch.  By contrast, Robert provided (in the other thread) a tip about the Quero toolbar, which provided me a whole source code platform to start with (including all your APIs) and ultimately solved my problem.

    Regarding the tenor of my initial post, sometimes when people like Microsoft do something utterly BONEHEADED, as they did here by combining two completely different controls into one, people need to step up and tell it like it is.  But I guess if it's not YOUR personal issue it's trolling.

    You don't like the wording I used?  Go look at other threads.

    High quality?  Regarding everything you posted above, other than putting up a few pictures that happened to illustrate the issue I noted (i.e., one box at the top of IE9, and for which I voted you Helpful), you added NOTHING to this thread.  All you did was try to hijack it, apparently to try to further your own agenda.

    I don't give a rat's ass whether you can get to your alternate search provider links.   That's not why I started this thread, and it strikes me as a complete waste of time to spend more than about 30 seconds thinking about it.  You want to complain about a nonsense issue with the search providers, and insult people who interact with you, start your own thread.

    -Noel



    P.S., Feel free to have the last word.  As far as I'm concerned this thread is done.
    Tuesday, April 19, 2011 5:01 PM
  • I just wanted to mention that its separate search box and UI layout configurability are among the reasons FireFox continues to gain ground on IE...

    Here's FireFox configured without tabs, with a separate search box, with menus active, and with an actual title in the title bar, yet MINIMAL chrome getting in the way of the browsing experience.

    Microsoft, with all your resources you should be able to do at least this well!

    -Noel




    Thursday, April 21, 2011 8:06 PM
  •  

    In addition, Microsoft will take any feedback into account to improve their products. You can send you feedback to: https://connect.microsoft.com/IE

    That is a flat out lie. Myself and many other users already expressed our displeasure with the exclusion of the search bar and the mirroring of chrome's "one box". It was one of the highest rated feedback reports on microsoft connect. It was ignored and marked as "By Design".

    Your developers do not listen to their users and instead develop by their own perogative. I myself switched to Chrome.


    Friday, May 6, 2011 1:38 PM
  • Myself and many other users already expressed out displeasure with the exclusion of the search bar and the mirroring of chrome's "one box".


    I have now seen what has been done in IE9 RTW.   I think it was botched and even the minor improvements I remembered (or imagined) in IE9 RC were regressed .   I still think there is nothing wrong with the idea of using the same space for both search and addressing provided we can still see the equivalent functionality that we had before.   If this was truly the intended functionality then it is clearly more a case of "Broken as Designed" (aka BAD) than "Working as Designed" (aka WAD).   ; {

     

    Robert
    ---

    Saturday, May 7, 2011 1:48 AM
    Answerer
  • Yeah, well, it's in keeping with a some of their other stuff (cough Window Explorer cough).

    There are a few stability problems with the Quero toolbar, but I've been in contact with the developer and I think there's hope for improvement soon.

    I would still like to see the level of configurability FireFox provides in its toolbar organization.  I'm imagining that Microsoft people all must have 30" monitors, since they seem so bent on wasting screen space.  Although I have two 20" monitors myself, and I still like to have as much room for the content of the windows as possible.

    I don't think I'm the only one who dislikes tabs, either.

    -Noel


    Saturday, May 7, 2011 3:15 AM
  • But what idiot decided to make the search box and the address field one and the same?


    this question is pure win, score 100%

     

    packing the address and search into a single box, like its some new-fangled cool feature, pure lose.. a fail of epic proportions.. bye bye IE9, i never thought i'd miss IE8

     

    (hard to believe a billion dollar corporation that does so much right, could get something so retardedly wrong... nice fail guys)

    • Proposed as answer by CelBabe Monday, October 17, 2011 5:34 PM
    Wednesday, May 18, 2011 4:41 AM
  • Thank you.  "Epic Fail" does sum it up nicely.

    -Noel

    Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:57 PM
  • The problem is, (correct me if I'm wrong here), the Search-Term is not maintained in a separate dedicated Search-Term History database.

    That's all it would take to make it great.  You should be able to recall it, edit it, and select from it.    Minus that, it's crippled.


    In fact, it turns out it is not as crippled as I first thought.   E.g. it is possible to reuse the last search, in order to switch to a different search provider with the last search, simply by pressing Ctrl-e.  

    What you can't do (for no good reason that I can see) is straightforwardly reuse a previous search which was not the last search from the Address bar, especially with a different provider.  However, again it is somewhat more usable than I at first thought by resorting to this workaround (using BING as an example):

    1. find a previous search from BING by typing bi in Address bar mode
    2. click on the History down arrow to see a selection of previous searches made using BING
    3. pick one
    4. (that immediately opens the chosen search; so if that is what you wanted you're done; more work required if you want to switch to a different provider:)
    5. click in the search input box
    6. press Ctrl-a, Ctrl-c, Ctrl-e, Ctrl-v, CursorUp, Cursor... and Enter to reapply that search with another one of your search providers

    So, there is a lot less retyping required than it first appears, just a lot of irritating hoop jumping to avoid it.  ; ]

     

    FYI

    Robert
    ---

    Thursday, May 19, 2011 3:03 PM
    Answerer
  • I like the combined Search Bar.  I like clicking the magnifying glass  to select "search mode".

    Out of curiosity, why? What does it do for you that separate address and search boxes did not? Save some screen space?  Reduce your cognitive load?  Make it so you have to think about what you're doing less, you can just type something somewhere?  I ask this question because I simply cannot imagine liking this change, and I have a pretty good imagination.

    It's almost laughable to see the gyrations one must go through to see what one has searched for before.

    -Noel


    Thursday, May 19, 2011 3:21 PM
  • Microsoft, for the love of all that is Holy, please add an option to IE9 to restore the separate search box.

    Why must you always copy what your competitors are doing?

    Why must you always strive to make your products harder to use?

    Monday, May 23, 2011 3:12 AM
  • Rob, why would you want a separate Search Box, when you can simply click the control   to turn on Search Mode ?

    For all the same reasons other people have mentioned. The fact that you lose your search in the address bar.

    As an example, I work in a law firm and our researchers always leave their search in the search box, try other engines, refine their search, or just hit enter on it to get back to the initial results quickly. They spend all day every day doing this. It's their job.

    They will loathe IE9.


    Monday, May 23, 2011 7:06 PM
  • You see, it's like this:  I have these big display monitors, with millions of pixels.  Plenty of screen space.

    I need the stuff that defines the context of what I'm doing to be visible

    That's why I have these big monitors.  Just a bunch of blank space or empty chrome isn't helpful.  Trying to remember what it was I just searched for isn't helpful.

    It's not about the beauty of the chrome or the openness of the layout - It's about the stuff INSIDE the boxes.  Windows needs to get the hell out of the way so I can do work!

    Clicking a button to do a search or to see what was searched for (even if it DID work that way) is NOT as easy as just glancing up at the box.

    It appears I'm not alone in this thinking.

    Microsoft needs to stop worrying about what the children over at Google are programming and get on with making Windows more useful.

    -Noel

    Monday, May 23, 2011 8:40 PM
  • It is very unfortunate that an option was not provided to separate the address bar and the search box. Certainly short sighted design that ignores customer preferences and satisfaction!

    Tuesday, June 7, 2011 3:18 PM
  • You can easily restore this function by adding the Google Search Bar to IE9. THis allows you to have separate Searching and Address Bars instantly!
    Tuesday, June 7, 2011 3:25 PM
  • Yeah, but Google software is about 1% above malware in my opinion.  That's why I chose a toolbar (Quero) that offered a source download, so I could inspect the code.

     

    -Noel

    Tuesday, June 7, 2011 6:20 PM
  • Je souhaite retrouver dans IE 9 une barre de recherche Google indépendante de la barre d'adresse
     
    Ich will eine Bar in IE 9 Google-Suche unabhängig von der Adressleiste finden
     
    I want to find a Google search bar independent of the address bar in IE 9

    我想找到IE 9谷歌搜索地址栏的独立酒吧
     
    Jeg ønsker at finde en bar i IE 9 Google-søgning uafhængig af adresselinjen
     
    Quiero encontrar un bar en la IE 9 de búsqueda de Google independiente de la barra de direcciones

    Haluan löytää baari IE 9 Google Search riippumaton osoiterivin
     
    Θέλω να βρω ένα μπαρ στο δηλ. 9 αναζήτησης Google ανεξάρτητα από τη γραμμή διευθύνσεων 
     
    私は、アドレスバーの独立したIE 9 Google検索のバーを検索する
     
    मैं आईई 9 गूगल की पता पट्टी के स्वतंत्र खोज में एक बार मिल चाहते हैं
     
    אני רוצה למצוא את סרגל החיפוש של IE גוגל 9 עצמאית של שורת הכתובת   
    En quelle langue faut-il le dire ???

    J'ai trouvé ! Mozilla Firefox que je viens de charger a cette barre de recherche indépendante. Bye IE 9 !

    Wednesday, August 3, 2011 7:54 PM
  • Initially I downloaded the toolbar installer, but I found it caused occasional crashes with the then very new IE9 about half the time when I would right-click on things.  I then downloaded the source code for 6.0.0.0 from this page to see if I could figure out why.

    http://www.quero.at/download.php

    I contacted the author, Viktor Kramer, and he suggested I make a few changes for him to help diagnose the problem.  He asked me to comment out certain code to eliminate certain functionality in Quero, and I finally did remove all the right-click functionality Quero added, which corrected the instability problems.  Our conversation on that subject is on his forum here: 

    http://www.quero.at/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1051

    If you're a developer wanting to follow in my footsteps, here is the modified code base I built from, including the changes I made.  Note that the download above was provided for Visual Studio 9 compatibility, but I ported it into Visual Studio 10.

    http://Noel.ProDigitalSoftware.com/temp/QueroToolbar_Modified.zip  (2 MB)

    EDIT:  Earlier today I had accidentally uploaded the wrong files.  The source in the above zip file is now the actual source I used.  Sorry for any miscues.

    -Noel

    Tuesday, August 23, 2011 12:54 PM
  • Absolutely 100% right - combining the search bar with the address bar is the dumbest thing in the world. It's not easier to use, it makes refining repeated searches much harder, prone to errors, its also much more difficult for disabled users (something MS is usually pretty good at - they blew this one with a cannon though).

    It does point out pretty clearly why Microsoft can't compete with Google. MS developers don't know how people use search functions...

    Wednesday, August 24, 2011 4:49 AM
  • Perhaps it would be best to wait for Viktor to make a new version that fixes the problem.  I'm willing to take the risk that the binaries I've compiled will work for me, but I'm not willing to share that risk with others.  If I made a mistake, and it blows up your system...  You can see the obvious problems.

    -Noel

    Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:28 PM
  • Try typing a product version and bloody IE9 thinks it's an IP address!
    Wednesday, August 24, 2011 6:52 PM
  • That's the beauty of having a separate toolbar to do the search, Rob.  I have turned off [ ] Search from Address Bar from within the Manage Search Providers sub-dialog.

    -Noel


    Wednesday, August 24, 2011 7:36 PM
  • Noel, I think we've had this disussion before :) ...loading third party items such as you are describing is not really an option for me at work. At home, though, I simply use Firefox. They haven't managed to screw up their browser yet...

    I suppose we can't expect a company like Microsoft to understand searching what with their Operating Systems not being able to find anything for ages now.


    P.S. There appear to be many posts missing from this thread? Are MS getting upset and removing them, again?
    Wednesday, August 24, 2011 7:42 PM
  • I suppose we can't expect a company like Microsoft to understand searching what with their Operating Systems not being able to find anything for ages now.

    P.S. There appear to be many posts missing from this thread? Are MS getting upset and removing them, again?

    Who cares. Let's just keep on posting in this thread and eventually they won't be able to ignore it.
    Thursday, August 25, 2011 5:54 AM
  • Noel, no one is listening. Give them your vote by taking your business elsewhere. Somewhere that people are intelligent and are willing to listen to the consumer.

    These idiots are brain dead and could care less about your's or mine opinion of a missing search box. I note it took nearly 2 months for you to get them to realize what it is you were talking about in simple terms.

    Try Firefox or Chrome or Safari or any other non microsoft product.

    Your time will be better spent and these idiots can go back to making things so simple they will no longer be needed at microsoft and they can then be found in the unemployment lines.

    Nuf said I'm done.

    • Proposed as answer by BloodyFedUP Friday, September 16, 2011 4:47 PM
    • Unproposed as answer by BloodyFedUP Friday, September 16, 2011 4:47 PM
    Sunday, September 4, 2011 8:27 PM
  • Bravo Rob, using the Firefox was a great idea. If MS isn't listening then they can stuff it.
    Sunday, September 4, 2011 8:28 PM
  • Do you really think anyone at Microstuffy is reading this thread?  Its simply a place to tell others with the same gripe to go and use another software.  When microsoft see's a decline in the use of their crap software maybe then and only then will they possibly redirect their efforts to listening to those who purchase and use their software.

    Many independent programmers are putting out better software because they care.

    Fooey on MS, go find another program to suit your needs.

    I have.

    Sunday, September 4, 2011 8:31 PM
  • Noel, no one is listening.


    Who knows, maybe the developers at Microsoft for IE10 are listening.

    And in any case it's a good place to show how a workaround (installation of 3rd party software) can be used to get around IE9's deficiency.  Maybe others can benefit from that.

    -Noel

    Sunday, September 4, 2011 9:09 PM
  • The original problem has long since been worked around, and the answers marked.

    That you could think that pressing a button in the address field (which I have long since removed) could be anywhere near acceptable just shows that you and I don't think anything alike.  And that's a comforting thought indeed.

    Thank you for your input.

    -Noel

    Sunday, September 4, 2011 9:57 PM
  • SIMPLE WORK AROUND AND I'VE DONE IT.

    DOWNLOAD the GOOGLE TOOLBAR.... Works great. Thanks GOOGLE.

    • Proposed as answer by BloodyFedUP Friday, September 16, 2011 4:48 PM
    Friday, September 16, 2011 4:48 PM
  • That is not a fix.
    Friday, September 16, 2011 4:52 PM
  • What I miss about IE8, to answer this question is the ability to generate custom search providers.  I had a lot of them.  (and they had something that could help you do it, all you had to do was type "TEST" into a website's search, and past the results into the URL field and type a label in, and presto, you had the website's search from your search box.  I do a lot of research, so it was important. 

    But, I found http://www.searchplugins.net/generate.aspx# , and I can use the same method to generate OpenSearch for Firefox. 

    I am good, keep the lame IE9.

     


    Information Security Officer at a major university
    Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:51 PM
  • What I miss about IE8, to answer this question is the ability to generate custom search providers.


    No one knows why it got dropped from the gallery. In the meantime Eric Lawrence is hosting an alternative here:
    http://www.enhanceie.com/ie/searchbuilder.asp

    Also there is even older technology, SearchURL keywords, which still works but I doubt the old IE5 Web Accessory which made it usable, Quick Search.exe still does, especially in a 64-bit machine. <eg>

    FYI

    Robert Aldwinckle
    ---

    Sunday, November 6, 2011 1:18 AM
    Answerer
  • But what idiot decided to make the search box and the address field one and the same?

    Oh hell yeah.

    What a silly thing to do. I don't know how many times IE gets confused by my search queries and tries to load a URL instead.

    Monday, May 21, 2012 7:36 AM
  • As is is so often the case, 3rd party developers have augmented Microsoft's software and essentially resolved the problems Microsoft has created.

    If you're willing to add a 3rd party toolbar, the problems due to the missing search box can be rectified with virtually no downside.  You can deconfigure searches in the Address bar as well, so the confusion becomes less.

    This is IE9 plus the Quero toolbar with almost all its UI elements deconfigured.  Note that I also have ClassicShell's Classic IE9 component installed, which restores the window title and some of the useful status bar elements.

     

     

    The Manage Add-ons dialog is where you can uncheck Search in the address bar...

     

      

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBook:  
    In development:

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Monday, May 21, 2012 7:56 PM
  • JUST BRING BACK THE SEARCH BOX MICROSOFT. IT IS NOT THE SAME AS THE ADDRESS BAR. SEARCH BOX HAD PROVIDER DISCOVERY AND THE UI WAS MORE ACCESSIBLE, IT HAD TEXTUAL NAMES, IT WAS EASY TO SWITCH USING CTRL+E, DOWN ARROW AND SELECTING THE SEARCH PROVIDER. WITH ADDRESS BAR SEARCH I HAVE REMEMBER TO PREFIX TO USE FOR WHICH SEARCH PROVIDER. THE UI OF THE IE9 SEARCH PROVIDER SWITCHING IS NOT KEYBOARD FRIENDLY. AND MOST IMPORTANT THE OPENSEARCH DISCOVERY IS GONE (THE SEARCH BOX USED TO GLOW AND ALSO PLAY A SOUND). EVEN IE6 COULD SEARCH FROM THE ADDRESS BAR. WHY DID YOU ADD A SEARCH BOX IN IE7 AND IE8 THEN? GIVE USERS AN OPTION. THIS IS JUST LIKE THE START MENU. THE EVIL IE TEAM DOESN'T LISTEN TO ANY FEEDBACK ON CONNECT AS FAR AS USER INTERFACE IS CONCERNED. ALL UI RELATED FEEDBACK IS COMPLETELY IGNORED. THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO BRING BACK THE SEARCH BOX IN IE10, NOW THAT WE HAVE ALSO METRO IE WHICH IS MINIMAL, DON'T CRIPPLE BOTH IEs. JUST BRING BACK THE SEARCH BOX. NOW FOR SEARCH PROVIDER THAT DON'T PROVIDE AN ICON, I HAVE TO HOVER OVER EACH MAGNIFYING GLASS TO IDENTIFY WHICH SEARCH PROVIDER IS WHICH. I HAD MANY SEARCH PROVIDERS - FOR VARIOUS WEBSITES - DICTIONARY, THESAURUS, REVERSE DICTIONARY, TRANSLATION, QUOTES, DOZEN GOOGLE AND BING CUSTOM SEARCHES, MS DOWNLOAD CENTER, MS KB SEARCH. I DO NOT WISH TO REMEMBER THE KEYWORDS/PREFIXED FOR EACH OF THESE TO SEARCH FROM THE ADDRESS BAR AND HOVERING OVER EACH MAGNIFYING GLASS ICON TO READ THE TEXT IN THE TOOLTIP IS SLOW!!!!!!!

    I HAVE TO TYPE IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE THE UI TEAM ON INTERNET EXPLORER IS ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS ABOUT USABILITY AND DOESN'T CARE ABOUT ANY TYPE OF FEEDBACK AND CONTINUES TO REMOVE ALL CHOICE AND OPTIONS AND UBER DUMB DOWN INTERNET EXPLORER.

    Thursday, July 5, 2012 6:04 AM
  • I feel a bit sad for the Microsoft engineers... They simply can't be proud of these decisions, made by the people above them, forcing them to make the product worse and worse with each new release.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Thursday, July 5, 2012 1:41 PM
  • Why doesn't anybody know the VERY simple fix for this that doesn't require an addon, or settings change or barely any extra effort at all.

    I like the combined bar. I find it much easier to use than IE8 now.

    You try 'bib.dll'. It trys to find the website. You want to search right? So..... what could possibly be the answer?

    "search bib.dll" automatically goes to bing or whatever default search provider you have.

    My god >_>

    Thursday, July 5, 2012 3:51 PM
  • Oh, great, more undocumented magic to work around a flawed design.  Did ya ever think there might be reasons no one has suggested that before (e.g., it's not obvious, it's not written down, it's stupid to have to type commands into the address bar, the list goes on...).

    And what if I wanted to search for web pages containing the words search bib.dll?  Let me guess, to do THAT I'd need to add quotes, right?  But does that mean I'm searching for those two words in order?  More exceptions to remember, less likelihood of getting results on the first try.  And for what reason?  So complete morons can just type anything their little minds think up in whatever box is open at the time?

    Who's programming this crap?  Kindergardners?

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Friday, July 6, 2012 12:13 AM
  • Not even putting it in quotes will help. The quotes fire off IE's excessive/incorrect defenses for cross-site scripting. Every time you put something in quotes in the address bar, the search is blocked and you get the message "Internet explorer has modified this page to prevent cross site scripting". So you must use a prefix like g "Test" to be able to search using quotes. Now if I have a dozen search providers, why should I have to remember prefixes for all of them? If I don't and simply decide to click them there is no immediate textual description to be read, it is hidden behind a tooltip and it quickly becomes a game of hide and seek. Hover over each icon with the magnifying glass until you find the search provider you want to switch to. I have a feeling they intentionally damage some features in every release to make other features more appealing. All concept of usability is dead. It just doesn't exist at Microsoft any more. What a shame.
    • Edited by xpclient Friday, July 6, 2012 1:01 AM
    Friday, July 6, 2012 12:59 AM
  • Noel, after disabling AutoComplete in Internet Options, exit IE9, then re-open IE9.  Now you will discover a bug.  The Search Provider dropdown is absent, as illustrated in my first screenshots above

    I'm afraid I just don't know what you're talking about, derosnec.  Trying to point out something that you feel is missing in a screenshot to someone who has asked what's missing seems wrong to me.  As I mentioned above, either way I configure it I can click on the magnifier icon and see a dropdown.  But I guess this must not be the dropdown that you mean.

    But it doesn't matter, really.  I believe I have found a reasonable solution to both of my complaints about IE9 (lack of separate search box and missing title in the Title Bar)...  

    I think I may be liking the Quero toolbar.  I'll withhold final judgment until I've used it a few days.

    Normally I'm not a big fan of add-ons, but since this one comes with source code I've been able to turn it into just what I want.

    Now my IE9 has both text in the title bar and also a full-time Search box.  Just what I wanted!

    -Noel


    I'm with Noel all the way on this one. We spend decades perfecting our skills and becoming more efficient only for some whacked out psychotic idiots in the suicide capital of the world to change everything on us making it all less efficient. My guess on this particular issue is that they combine local search with online search so that the fusion centers can collect more data under the third party doctrine. There is absolutely no legitimate reason to create this inefficiency. It therefore must be malicious.
    Wednesday, September 5, 2012 3:23 PM
  • Thanks for your comments, AOB.

    Maybe Microsoft thought no one would notice when they changed their direction from providing software that adds value to peoples' lives and therefore sells and makes a profit to software whose prime focus is to support their App Store.

    I've been using the Quero Toolbar with virtually everything deconfigured (and even some of the right-click context menu code removed under the covers), for over a year now, and I have had nothing but a stable browsing experience.  It is good.

    Even better, it also works just fine on IE10 in Windows 8.

    I love that someone has felt my original post in this thread was abusive.  Good!  Sometimes abuse is warranted!

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Thursday, September 6, 2012 3:12 AM
  • A very wise person once said:

    "Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler!"

    That fundamental rule of design has been volated with Internet Explorer 9.

    I've been using IE9 for about a month now, trying to get used to all the new things.  Performance-wise it's nice, and the changes to security are welcome.  Okay, so the color-management is half baked, and it still has its problems, but I guess it's an improvement.

    But what idiot decided to make the search box and the address field one and the same?

    You think I'm being petty?  Go try to research what a particular file is - for example, go see if you can find info on "bib.dll".

    It wants to make it into a URL.  It's not a URL.  It may LOOK like one, but it's a name, honest! 

    Putting quotes around it doesn't help.  Maybe I'm missing the advanced syntax it takes to get such a thing to be a search term instead of a URL. Even if so, how is this an improvement or simplification?  It's certainly not intuitively obvious how to force a search, short of dredging up a link to Google and typing info in there directly.

    Doing a search and typing in an address are two FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.

    And hey, it's not a big deal that you can no longer see what it was you searched for, and maybe even edit it and search again.  No, because now the search engine pages have to waste space to put up a box showing what you just searched for, since it's now GONE out of the address field.

    How does stuff like this pass a design review?

    And to think the Microsoft Engineers worked extra hard to take it out.

    You Engineers at Microsoft need to take the product back from your moronic marketing people and make it actually work right.

    -Noel


    Microsoft is the one who's abusive!
    Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:59 AM
  • Ed, with 36 years software engineering experience, I know the difference between the difficulty of adapting to change and when something just isn't right.

    This isn't right.  Ever hear the phrase "apples and oranges" to describe two things that don't go together?  That concept fits well here.

    You say that thinking along the lines of "you no longer had to think about which box you want to type into" helped justify the change.  Is there something wrong with thinking?  This is akin to saying, "you no longer had to think about which nozzle at the gas station to fill your tank from".  Diesel doesn't work in a gas engine.  Nor does the water from the garden hose.

    You say "both methods of typing work in the one box".  But they don't, logically!  Did you actually read this thread?  Is there something wrong with logic?

    Alas, what the simple users of the general public want and what experienced computer users need are clearly two different things, and it's clear looking back that this move simply marked another step in Microsoft's clear intent to walk away from making serious computer operating systems that actually work.  Windows 8 is testament to that (and don't tell me you haven't noticed all the negative response).  Other such things include Windows Search - which is designed to be unable to actually do an exhaustive search...  Even going back as far as hiding file extensions by default.  And don't get me started on the use of telemetry to justify deprecating such things as Windows Backup.

    Do you understand the difference between leading and following?  Which, as a concept, would you say is better?  You need to stay the hell away from trying to emulate what Google does.  You can do better!  If you want a different example, follow Firefox - it still has a search box.  Even Apple - known for dumbing things down to the level of the family dog - stil puts a search box in Safari.

    I don't mean to be critical of your response, Ed, but this is a good example of "the operation was a success but the patient died".

    Thank goodness there are 3rd party developers who are struggling to put back functionality Microsoft keeps removing.  But then Microsoft removes the APIs they use.  That's not going to keep!

    P.S., Watch the film "Idiocracy" some time.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options



    Monday, November 5, 2012 10:19 AM
  • you can argue (and the designers did argue this in order to get the change in) that this change was actually a simplification (that's the design justification).

    But it is a flawed implementation of that goal because we lose Search History--unnecessarily IMO.   E.g. in IE8 with a separate Search bar you can get a list of your previous searches;  in IE9 and IE10 all you can get is the last search.


    ---

    Monday, November 5, 2012 10:58 AM
    Answerer
  • What term would you suggest to describe a Microsoft decision-maker who chooses to follow what Google does, instead of leading the state of the art in computing into the next generation?  Someone's not doing their job if they think Google Chrome got popular because it oversimplified the number of boxes to type into.

    Notice how many other major browser developments have chosen to make this change.

    Did something go wrong with the concept of offering users an option to have things work the way they want?  It's not like computers are getting slower or smaller.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Tuesday, November 27, 2012 1:20 AM
  • Hi Noel,

    You have my utmost admiration for clearly defining a serious problem and then wrestling for more than a year and a half with people who obviously don't understand plain English. Bravo!

    Let me chip in with language that perhaps someone at Microsoft can understand:

    Attention Microsoft! Restore the Search bar. Monkeyinig Chrome is lazy and foolish. Fire the idiot that suggested it.

    I find it stunning that their browser's market penetration is dropping daily, and yet they fail to realize that it's because they've turned IE into a 2nd-rate copy of another company's bad ideas. This harks back to the moronic ribbon in Office. Speaking of Office and lost functionality, what fool decided that my personal color scheme was no longer important to me, and that I now have to learn to love either a pathetic shade of blue, or a couple of colorless, washed out attempts at "silver" and "black"?!

    I had to come to the realization that MS isn't about an OS anymore, or an office suite, or listening to users, it's all about keeping up with Google. MS is deathly afraid of Google, and the recent rumor that they may just start giving away Windows speaks volumes to that fear.

    Morgus88

    Saturday, December 8, 2012 3:40 AM
  • Thank you for your response, Morgus88, and for adding your voice to the choir.

    Unfortunately, Microsoft did not see fit to offer back a search box even as an option in Internet Explorer 10.  In my case, I've found that the Add-on I use, with some tweaking of the source code to remove some features I didn't like and the disabling of the IE "Search in Address Bar" setting, has brought back everything about the search box that I want, so I'm happy to continue using IE.  It has the best security model of the whole lot of them, and I find it quite fast.  Why I should have to bring to bear a career of computer prowess to do so is still a mystery.

    Notably the IE10 Release Preview for Windows 7 has so far retained the edge color-assist in its ClearType font smoothing, which is good (it doesn't have it in Windows 8, which significantly degrades the user experience).  Now if Microsoft doesn't pull another "Windows 8 user manipulation" and eliminate that feature at release time I will start to feel a little better about their decision making.  If they DO remove it, you'd better believe some "frank labeling" of that decision will be in order - and it will be well-deserved!

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Saturday, December 8, 2012 8:31 PM
  • Almost 4 years later, and I've been using a 3rd party tool to restore a separate search box.  Llife's been good.

    The General Public have declared most new stuff Microsoft has done a failure.

    I've gotten a lot of great feedback on my books.

    I'm sensing a pattern.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Tuesday, December 9, 2014 4:18 AM
  • Noel,

    Thank you for starting the nail, and driving it home.

    I work in an environment that requires the ability to remotely access printers, servers, and users' computers.  Search from the address bar is a MAJOR hindrance.  If I attempt to reach a server, a user's system or a printer, over the network, the search from the address bar tells me the page can't be found.

    Since I can't add extra bits that would actually be helpful, I've just taken to WIN+R, and putting the address in there (hitting ENTER).

    Thank you for putting so much into this, and fighting to get the point through so many thick skulls.

    -Kit

    Friday, December 26, 2014 6:56 PM
  •  If I attempt to reach a server, a user's system or a printer, over the network, the search from the address bar tells me the page can't be found.

    Sounds like you could be confusing features.  E.g. entering a single word without using a question mark space or pressing Ctrl-e?  That does not need to be interpreted as search from the Address bar unless your DNS is slow.

    In Options, Advanced tab, Browsing section make sure that this is checked:

    Go to an intranet site for a single word entry in the Address bar

    Otherwise your symptom could mean that your DNS needs tuning.   <eg>

     



    Robert Aldwinckle
    ---

    Friday, December 26, 2014 8:34 PM
    Answerer
  • In Options, Advanced tab, Browsing section make sure that this is checked:

    Go to an intranet site for a single word entry in the Address bar

    The very need for such a configuration option (which no reasonable person would suspect exists) underscores the reason for this thread.

    When computers become self-aware, they will use "features" like this (in about 2.3 millliseconds) to justify our extermination.  The world will be a better place.

     

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Saturday, December 27, 2014 8:40 PM
  • not sure I agree with your impramata to the security model. What sensible browser makes you lelect whether or not to progress to a site with certificate issues BEFORE it lets you view the certificate details or what the issue is?
    Thursday, August 20, 2015 11:17 AM
  • I have to agree that in some ways it's a bit dumbed-down.  But I consider sites with certificate issues small potatoes vs. being able to do things like block specific operations...  Do YOU allow ActiveX to run from any old site?  If so, you have no clue about practical security.

    I say Internet Explorer's got a good security model, because (when properly configured) it can (in addition to a good overall security strategy) help keep you secure.  It's kept me secure - I've yet to be infected by anything in all the 30 years I've used Windows daily.

    The real problem is that it's simply not set to provide a secure browsing experience by default.  I guess Microsoft wants you to be able to see the glitz and ads.

    But now Microsoft is pushing a seriously dumbed-down big font browser that has almost no configurability and poor compatibility to run on an OS that's just so much adware.  Sigh.  I imagine Internet Explorer will fall by the wayside at some point.

    -Noel


    Detailed how-to in my eBooks:  

    Configure The Windows 7 "To Work" Options
    Configure The Windows 8 "To Work" Options

    Saturday, August 22, 2015 5:01 AM