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Errors regarding LIS 3.5 for Hyper-V resulting from a "yum update" attempt on a Fedora 21 Linux VM on Hyper-V RRS feed

  • Question

  • We have a customer who has installed a Fedora 21 VM on Hyper-v and has encountered the following errors as a result of an attempted "yum update":

    --> Finished Dependency Resolution
    Error: Package: kmod-microsoft-hyper-v-rhel63.3.5-20131212.x86_64 (installed)
               Requires: /sbin/depmod
               Removing: kmod-18-4.fc21.x86_64 (@anaconda)
                   Not found
               Updated By: kmod-19-1.fc21.x86_64 (updates)
                   Not found
    You could try using --skip-broken to work around the problem

    Do you know whether the latest Fedora releases provide built in Microsoft LIS support and, if so, shouldn't kmod-microsoft-hyper-v-rhel63.3.5-20131212.x86_64 be removed from this FC21 VM installation? Couldn't a LIS kernel module meant to support a RHEL 6.3 VM wreak havoc on a FC21 VM installation? Also, could such a mismatch create VM network latency?

    Thursday, May 14, 2015 8:36 PM

All replies

  • The various LIS downloads are targeted against specific Red Hat and CentOS kernel versions, and are not recommended for other uses. That being said, specific LIS features and fixes are always being submitted to upstream Linux kernels and can appear in any OS that integrates them. Microsoft does not generally test specific Fedora combinations with the LIS downloads.

    Fedora 21 ships a kernel based on Linux 3.16. There's a lot of LIS in there, but not as much as is in LIS 4.0, which contains features accepted into later kernels. Even with the kernel support, additional daemons are needed for full functionality, like the kvp, vrss, and fcopy.


    Joshua R. Poulson, Program Manager, Microsoft Open Source Technology Center

    Thursday, May 14, 2015 10:26 PM
  • I  am most grateful for your answer; but I still need some clarification. My question really was focused on the possible problem of an outdated LIS 3.5 package applied to a newer Linux distribution already appointed with appropriate built in LIS. In another thread in this forum, discussing a spurious error message encountered upon migration of CentOs 6.5 VMs to Hyper-V - https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsserver/en-US/b3a26d5c-07f9-429c-86d2-3017e70df682/upgrade-lis-31-on-centos-65-to-lis-35?forum=linuxintegrationservices - Michael Kelley makes the following statements:

    "Your CentOS 6.5 image has the correct LIS, and you can see the Hyper-V features for CentOS 6.5 LIS in this documentation page on TechNet:  http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn531026.aspx.

    The LIS 3.5 package downloadable from Microsoft is intended ONLY for use with the older Linux distros as listed in the above documentation grid.  It should not be applied to Linux distros that have the LIS built-in."

    The documentation grid for "CentOS and Red Hat Enterprise Linux virtual machines on Hyper-V" at http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn531026.aspx contains the following legend:

    Built in – LIS are included as part of this Linux distribution. The Microsoft-provided LIS download package does not work for this distribution, so do not install it. The kernel module version numbers for the built in LIS (as shown by lsmod, for example) are different from the version number on the Microsoft-provided LIS download package. A mismatch does not indicate that the built in LIS is out of date.

    This grid identifies versions 6.4 through 7.1 of RHEL and Centos as being distributions already having "Built in" LIS for which "The Microsoft-provided LIS download package does not work".

    Given all of the above and the fact that RHEL 7 is based upon Fedora 19 and uses Linux kernel 3.10.0-123. ,whereas Fedora 21 uses a newer Linux Kernel:

    1)shouldn't kmod-microsoft-hyper-v-rhel63.3.5-20131212.x86_64 be removed from our customers Fedora 21 VM?

    2) Would it be appropriate after removing the LIS 3.5 package from this Fedora 21 VM to try an install of LIS 4.0 given that it is suggested for newer linux distros (I think you may have been suggesting this)?


    • Edited by Annamalia Saturday, May 16, 2015 7:15 PM
    Saturday, May 16, 2015 7:00 PM
  • I hope I'm understanding your questions correctly:

    1. Any package from LIS 3.5 should not be present in a Fedora 21 system.  If a customer installed LIS 3.5 into their Fedora 21 system, that's definitely a mistake made by the customer.  If Fedora 21 is coming out-of-the-box with that LIS 3.5 package present, that's a mistake is the way Fedora 21 is packaged.  It's not clear to me from your posting which is the situation.  In either case, that module is really old compared to the Fedora 21 kernel and would not be expected to work.
    2. It would not be appropriate to try to install LIS 4.0.  LIS 4.0 is built for RHEL/CentOS 7.0 and 7.1, which is based on a 3.10 kernel.  Fedora 21 is a 3.17 kernel, right?  These LIS 4.0 kernel modules for 7.0/7.1 are pre-compiled for a 3.10-xxx kernel and would not be expected to work with a 3.17 kernel.

    As Josh Poulson indicated in his post, the 3.17 kernel is fairly up-to-date with Hyper-V LIS code, but there are still additional changes in 3.18 up through the current upstream Linux kernel.  We're pretty much continuously making improvements.  From a Microsoft standpoint, we've focused our pre-packaged LIS binaries on the RHEL/CentOS releases, and have not attempted to stay up-to-date with the Fedora release stream.  That's just a business decision we've made based on what our customers are usually running in their datacenters or in the Azure public cloud.

    We do, however, release the source code for LIS 4.0 along with the binaries.  For customers who are savvy with working with Linux kernel source code, you could take the Hyper-V related source code from the current upstream Linux kernel, or from the LIS 4.0 release, and incorporate into the Fedora 21 kernel, and make any necessary source code adjustments so it will compile and function properly.  We do this kind of porting to particular kernel versions quite frequently, and it's not hard if you have expertise in working with Linux kernel source code.


    Michael Kelley, Lead Program Manager, Open Source Technology Center

    Saturday, May 16, 2015 11:58 PM
    Moderator
  • You are most definitely understanding my questions correctly! I can't say how the LIS 3.5 package came to be installed on our customers system. I'm certain it did not come  from any Fedora repositories. I only became aware that it was installed on their FC21 VM when I reviewed the error messages (included in my original post above) resulting from their attempted "yum update". The most current update to the Fedora 21 kernel results in an installation of kernel 3.19.7. Since the announcement for the release of LIS 4.0 was made on May 1, and the kernel 3.19.7 update was made available only on May 10, I suspect that this kernel would not yet have incorporated the most current LIS. Is there a way to determine which upstream kernel version will have incorporated the version 4.0 LIS?
    Sunday, May 17, 2015 9:05 PM
  • LIS 4.0 (and specifically LIS 4.0.7, which is what is currently posted on the Microsoft Download Center), was sync'ed with the upstream Linux kernel code for Hyper-V in early April. I don't have the exact date and LIS 4.0 probably won't correspond exactly with a specific upstream kernel version.  The 3.19.7 kernel that you currently have in Fedora 21 will be close to LIS 4.0, but won't have everything.

    We plan to update LIS 4.0 on an ongoing basis every couple of months, assuming that there are fixes and improvements that are worth releasing.  So there will probably be a new LIS 4.0 (perhaps labelled 4.0.8) sometime in June.

    Even so, the binary version of LIS 4.0 that we release will be targeted at specific RHEL/CentOS releases, and so the LIS 4.0 rpms still won't be appropriate for installing into Fedora 21.


    Michael Kelley, Lead Program Manager, Open Source Technology Center

    Monday, May 18, 2015 4:28 PM
    Moderator
  • Thank you! Given that none of the LIS rpms are meant for installation into a Fedora 21 environment,  I realize that these last 2 questions are based on a potentially unaddressable scenario. However, could you advise as to what might be the safest method of removing the kmod-microsoft-hyper-v-rhel63.3.5-20131212.x86_64 from our customers Fedora 21 VM. The "Linux Integration Services 3.5 for Hyper-V Readme" instructs customers to use rpm -e for removal of these rpms from the specifically targeted RHEL or CentOS environments. I am wondering whether this might be a safer method than using "yum remove". Finally I would be curious to know whether installation of the LIS rpms into an inappropriate environment such as this Fedora 21 VM or a  newer release of RHEL or CentOS (with built in LIS) has been known to cause any system issues (such as network latency).



    • Edited by Annamalia Tuesday, May 19, 2015 3:12 AM
    Tuesday, May 19, 2015 12:13 AM
  • We recommend using rpm -e to remove the errant rpms as yum may try to handle dependencies which will not be correct for the LIS installation.

    You could see network latency if the LIS RPMs were in conflict with the drivers included with your kernel. This happened in the past when users would download and install LIS without removing the Red Hat or CentOS kernel modules which had been built-in with the distribution. The LIS 4.0 installer detects those modules and removes them before installing the LIS RPMs. It should have refused to install on Fedora, but it seems likely the RPMs were manually installed.


    Joshua R. Poulson, Program Manager, Microsoft Open Source Technology Center

    Tuesday, May 19, 2015 12:20 AM
  • Thanks again! It was exactly that aspect of yum that concerned me. Your answer to my second question may shed light on latency that was being encountered while attempting to control the Fedora 21 guest VM via a remote conference. It will be great if removal of the LIS 3.5 RPMs remedies this issue.  You mentioned that the LIS 4.0 installer should have refused to install on Fedora; would the LIS 3.5 installer have refused to install on Fedora?
    Tuesday, May 19, 2015 4:09 AM
  • There is no grand installer on LIS 3.5, but instead a installer for particular RPMs under different directories on the ISO. For example, if you look in the RHEL55 directory on the ISO, there is an installation script for RHEL55 that removes the pre-built LIS and installs the new RPMs. The RPMs are right there in the directory too.

    Installing on Fedora would necessarily be a manual process of installing the RPMs.


    Joshua R. Poulson, Program Manager, Microsoft Open Source Technology Center

    Tuesday, May 19, 2015 4:53 PM
  • ~~

    I can't say how the LIS 3.5 package came to be installed on our customers system.

    ~~

     As test:

    -- install Fedora 21 on new VM

    -- not install LIS

    -- run yum update

    (

     As result, IMHO, zero errors

    )

    Wednesday, May 20, 2015 2:42 PM
  • Thanks, for your suggestion, but our customer is not running installation tests of Fedora 21 as a VM on Hyper-V. We support our software running on a Fedora 21 platform, and our customer chose (without consulting us) to install Fedora 21 as a guest VM on Hyper-V. Since quite a bit of work was done on their current Fedora 21 VM before discovery of the errant LIS installation, If possible, we would like to avoid forcing them to trash this installation. To this end, once the removal of the errant LIS rpms has been performed, do configuration steps need to be taken in order to enable the LIS services that are "built in" to function in Linux distros with upstream kernels?
    Thursday, May 21, 2015 2:54 PM
  • There are no configuration steps, but if the pre-existing kernel support is not reinstalled, emulated devices might be used which may not lead to satisfying performance. Without knowing what was performed in their manual steps, we can only advise going back to what you started with on the image.

    I booted a vanilla Fedora 21 server and lsmod shows the usual hv and hyperv drivers. With 3.17 as a kernel you are likely missing the performance work done for XIO and also bugfixes that went upstream. (The regular set at this kernel level is hv_vmbus, vm_netvsc, hv_storvsc, hv_utils, hyperv_keyboard, hyperv_fb, and hid_hyperv).

    The daemons for kvp, vrss, and fcopy are not present, even after a yum update. As a result, you won't be able to do key/value pair queries (which is how HyperV Manager and Powershell use WIM to get values out of the VM), snapshots, or copy files into and out of the VM. But the core vmbus, network, and storage pieces are there.

    In RHEL, images come pre-installed with hypervkvpd which has to be uninstalled when LIS is installed. Again, do not try to install LIS on Fedora. It won't work and if it is forced manually we cannot predict the results. We've done no specific testing of the Fedora kernels in our work.


    Joshua R. Poulson, Program Manager, Microsoft Open Source Technology Center



    Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:22 PM
  • I thank you so much for testing this out! I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "going back to what you started with on the image". Do you mean running an rpm -e of the errant LIS RPMs and then perhaps a yum update on our customers current Fedora 21 VM before rebooting, or do you mean starting from scratch with a new Fedora 21 VM on Hyper-v, or are you referring to an option other than either of these 2 options? Incidentally, I don't no how much of difference this would make in terms of LIS functionality, but the current update to the fedora 21 kernel results in an installation of kernel 3.19.7.
    Thursday, May 21, 2015 10:30 PM
  • Yes, at a minimum remove the LIS RPMs. My only worry was that there might have been kernel modules removed by installing LIS, but since I'm not seeing any daemons on the fresh install, I'd only worry that once all the pieces are removed the list of modules I had above are present after booting (hv_vmbus, vm_netvsc, hv_storvsc, hv_utils, hyperv_keyboard, hyperv_fb, and hid_hyperv)

    Before the yum update I was at 3.17.4-301 and it was working fine, afterward I was at 3.19.7. Of course, we continue submitting upstream, and there are additional patches in 4.0.x and 4.1. We do requests to get important items backported and included in many distributions, but we have not done so with Fedora.


    Joshua R. Poulson, Program Manager, Microsoft Open Source Technology Center

    Thursday, May 21, 2015 10:36 PM
  • ~~

    Yes, at a minimum remove the LIS RPMs. My only worry was that there might have been kernel modules removed by installing LIS,

    ~~

     IMHO, can sence before remove the LIS :

     1) shutdown VM

     2) create backup copy all *.vhd files ( or whole VM) 

     3) turn on VM and remove LIS

     4) imm. after -- reboot VM again, for check what "all Ok"

     5) if VM can not boot or work strange, when turn off VM and restore .vhd to original state

     

    Friday, May 22, 2015 3:09 PM
  • We also have this problem on CentOS 7 (CentOS Linux release 7.0.1406 (Core)) with kernel 3.10.0-123.20.1.el7.x86_64.

    Do I understand correctly that I should first run "rpm -e kmod-microsoft-hyper-v-rhel63.3.5-20131212.x86_64"? And because LIS is now integrated the issue should be solved directly?

    Tuesday, May 26, 2015 9:15 AM
  • ~~

    We also have this problem on CentOS 7 (CentOS Linux release 7.0.1406 (Core)) with kernel 3.10.0-123.20.1.el7.x86_64.

    Do I understand correctly that I should first run "rpm -e kmod-microsoft-hyper-v-rhel63.3.5-20131212.x86_64"? And because LIS is now integrated the issue should be solved directly?

    ~~

       On first look, yes ( "rpm -e . . .")

    but IMHO, can sense create new thread

    ( this thread/topic about Fedora )

    Tuesday, May 26, 2015 10:13 AM
  • ~~

    Joshua R. Poulson ( Program Manager, Microsoft Open Source Technology Center) say:

    I booted a vanilla Fedora 21 server and   . . .    .

    The daemons for kvp, vrss, and fcopy are not present, even after a yum update. As a result, you won't be able to do key/value pair queries (which is how HyperV Manager and Powershell use WIM to get values out of the VM), snapshots, or copy files into and out of the VM. But the core vmbus, network, and storage pieces are there.

    In RHEL, images come pre-installed with hypervkvpd

    ~~

    If  search by phrase

    ==

    kvp-daemon +Fedora

    ==

    and ( or)

    ==

    "hyperv daemons" +Fedora

    ==

    we can found

    http://rpms.famillecollet.com/rpmphp/zoom.php?rpm=hyperv-daemons&pkgdb=1

    ==

    Package: hyperv-daemons

    Upstream info
    Summary:                                 HyperV daemons suite                           
    Description: Suite of daemons that are needed when Linux guest
    is running on Windows Host with HyperV.
    URL: http://www.kernel.org
    Owner:                                 vittyvk (vittyvk)                           
    Bugzilla: Active bugs
    GitWeb: http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/hyperv-daemons.git
    PkgDB: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/hyperv-daemons

    ==

    ~

    ~

    http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/hyperv-daemons.git

    ==


    f18

    f19

    f20

    f21

    f22

     . . .

     

    2015-01-08

    Rebase to 3.19-rc3 (20150108 git snapshot)HEADmasterf22

    Vitaly Kuznetsov

     . . .

    2014-08-16

    - Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_21_22_Mass_Rebuildf21

     . . .

    2014-07-14

    Update the File copy daemon to the latest git snapshot

     . . .

    2014-06-11

    Package new Hyper-V fcopy daemon as hypervfcopyd sub-package

    Tomas Hozza

     . . .

    2014-06-07

    - Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_21_Mass_Rebuild


      . . .


    2014-01-10

    provide 'hyperv-daemons' package for convenient installation of all daemons

    ==

    Q: Can 'hyperv-daemons'  package solve missing

    hv_fcopy_daemon
    hv_kvp_daemon
    hv_vss_daemon

    ?

    Tuesday, May 26, 2015 11:53 AM
  • You beat me to it! I was about to ask Josh Poulson whether the following FC21 packages (which reside in the "Everything" area on all the standard Fedora repository mirrors) might solve the problem of the missing daemons. There seem to be only x86-64 versions of these packages available via the standard repository mirrors and they are dated 2014-Aug-20 (could this be to old and moldy?). Also, curiously, the only i686 "hyperv" package I could find for FC21 in the standard repositories was the "debug information package" for hyperv-daemons, "hyperv-daemons-debuginfo-0-0.9.20140714git.fc21.i686.rpm":

    http://mirrors.mit.edu/fedora/linux/releases/21/Everything/x86_64/os/Packages/h/

    hyperv-daemons-0-0.9.20140714git.fc21.x86_64.rpm 2014-Aug-20 02:25:50 8.5K application/x-redhat-package-manager
    hyperv-daemons-license-0-0.9.20140714git.fc21.noarch.rpm 2014-Aug-20 00:44:35 15.9K application/x-redhat-package-manager
    hypervfcopyd-0-0.9.20140714git.fc21.x86_64.rpm 2014-Aug-20 01:39:30 14.1K application/x-redhat-package-manager
    hypervkvpd-0-0.9.20140714git.fc21.x86_64.rpm 2014-Aug-20 00:52:24 23.4K application/x-redhat-package-manager
    hypervvssd-0-0.9.20140714git.fc21.x86_64.rpm 2014-Aug-20 00:41:36 14.6K application/x-redhat-package-manager

    http://mirrors.mit.edu/fedora/linux/releases/21/Everything/i386/debug/h/

    hyperv-daemons-debuginfo-0-0.9.20140714git.fc21.i686.rpm 2014-Aug-20 01:29:01 57.1K application/x-redhat-package-manager

    Tuesday, May 26, 2015 1:16 PM
  • To Josh Poulson and/or Michael Kelley: would it be accurate and the safest approach for us to tell our customer that "Fedora is not currently officially supported as a guest VM on Hyper-V"? We would like to try to accommodate their choices; but if we are going to continue to attempt to support this current configuration, perhaps we should at least first let them know that this support will be a "best effort" attempt in the face of the fact that Microsoft is not currently officially supporting Fedora as a VM on Hyper-V. I would like to add that I fully understand that under no circumstances would the installation of the LIS 3.5 or 4.0 RPMs on the FC21 VM been correct or "supported".


    • Edited by Annamalia Tuesday, May 26, 2015 4:52 PM
    Tuesday, May 26, 2015 4:08 PM
  • ~~

      . . . Also, curiously, the only i686 "hyperv" package I could find for FC21 in the standard repositories was the "debug information package" for hyperv-daemons, "hyperv-daemons-debuginfo-0-0.9.20140714git.fc21.i686.rpm"  . . .

    ~~

     IMHO, in "32bit x86" CPU mode , in any case, simply not work many thеаtures of Hyper-V .ko and ( or) daemons

    Simply can not sense ( "big sense"/ "not sense use in prodaction" ) use 32bit Linuxes ( and 32bit FreeBSD) inside VM on Hyper-V


    P.S. Sorry for no-full answer in "small remark/comment" style -- in "TZ UTC+3" 19:30 ;-)
    Tuesday, May 26, 2015 4:22 PM
  • Sorry, but I am also a little lost on this subject. The page on VM on CentOS 7, https://technet.microsoft.com/en-US/library/dn531026.aspx, tells me eveything should be build in for CentOS 7. However, I do not see the hv_vss_daemon in the process list after booting. We are on CentOS Linux release 7.1.1503 (Core) using kernel 3.10.0-229.4.2.el7.x86_64 and all our packages are up-to-date.

    Should I install hyperv-daemons in order to have them running?

    Tuesday, June 9, 2015 2:57 PM
  • Eventually I got the answer from the following document: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/pdf/7.1_Release_Notes/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux-7-7.1_Release_Notes-en-US.pdf. This says that I should install the hyperv-daemons package. And then this article got me to enable it in systemctl: http://unix.bris.ac.uk/2015/03/12/linux-vms-on-hyper-v-be-sure-to-install-and-run-hyperv-daemons/.
    Tuesday, June 9, 2015 3:26 PM
  • ~~

    We also have this problem on CentOS 7 (CentOS Linux release 7.0.1406 (Core)) with kernel 3.10.0-123.20.1.el7.x86_64.

    Do I understand correctly that I should first run "rpm -e kmod-microsoft-hyper-v-rhel63.3.5-20131212.x86_64"? And because LIS is now integrated the issue should be solved directly?

       On first look, yes ( "rpm -e . . .")

    but IMHO, can sense create new thread

    ( this thread/topic about Fedora )

    ~~

    +

    ~~

    Sorry, but I am also a little lost on this subject. The page on VM on CentOS 7,

    ~~

    IMHO: (

    To Genkgo : if You want answer, then please run tests on modern ( v22 or v21) Fedora

    if You want ask Q , please create _another_ new topic related  'hyperv-daemons on  RHEL/CentOs/SL/Oracle EL'

    )

    P.S./Antiofftopic

    To Josh Poulson [MSFT] :  How about my and Annamalia  questions about 'hyperv-daemons' :

     as example

    Q: Can 'hyperv-daemons'  package solve missing

    hv_fcopy_daemon
    hv_kvp_daemon
    hv_vss_daemon

    ?


    Wednesday, June 10, 2015 6:45 AM