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Please give us back the 'legacy' Firewire IEE1394 driver! RRS feed

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    Hi there.

    I'm running Windows 8 RTM Enterprise x64.  I use an RME Fireface 400 audio interface (soundcard) and it does not function correctly unless I boot without driver signing so that I can use the legacy firewire driver I copied out of a Windows 7 x64 PC as it is not included in Win8 anymore.

    I spent quite a bit of money on importing a SIIG FireWire 2-Port PCIe (NN-E20012-S2) firewire controller, it has a Texas Instruments chip but even with this, I still have to use the legacy driver.

    Please consider adding the legacy driver back into Windows 8.  it is a well documented fact that many audio engineers used this driver to get their audio interfaces working 100% in Windows 7.

    I also met someone who uses a scanner and he also could only get it to function correctly using the legacy driver stripped out of a Win7 install.

    Please Microsoft, give us the legacy firewire driver back, it does work, all you have to do is sign the drivers! :)

    Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:52 AM

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    Follow steps on Troubleshoot Compatibility Issues in Windows 8 Release Preview and see if it solve your issue. You might be able to run driver in compatibility mode.

    It is good idea to inform the manufacturer of this issue too.

    • Proposed as answer by Arthur Xie Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:14 AM
    • Unproposed as answer by Brandon Records Thursday, January 16, 2014 6:56 PM
    Sunday, September 23, 2012 11:30 AM
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    The problem is not with my soundcard, as it runs perfectly when the legacy firewire driver is used, this issue is also common on Windows 7 x64.

    The drivers for the firewire controller are not available for download, ie: the drivers only available built into Windows, there is no 3rd party / alternate download.

    Sunday, September 23, 2012 5:01 PM
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    According to more than one professional audio vendor, Microsoft has already indicated they do not intend to support that market any longer. Don't hold your breath.
    Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:19 PM
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    What professional audio vendor would that be ?

    Support what market exactly , are you meaning legacy or Pro Audio in general.

    If the former, I can understand that to a point, but its not like returning and signing the legacy FW driver that was available on the Win7/Win8 previews is going break anything and it will resolve a lot of potential issues. If you mean the later, Sorry Mate, I think you have been misinformed , perhaps you were confusing it with Apple... :-)

    Tuesday, September 25, 2012 9:29 PM
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    Firewire is a peer to peer protocol, it was designed by Apple as a rival to USB

    I don't need any clarification on FireWire.

    What is being proposed is the return of the legacy driver from Win7 to resolve issues with existing hardware.

    Firewire is still the most widely used interconnect for professional audio interfaces across desktop/mobile , despite it being thinner on the ground on current hardware offerings.

    Tuesday, September 25, 2012 11:49 PM
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    Hi there.

    I'm running Windows 8 RTM Enterprise x64.  I use an RME Fireface 400 audio interface (soundcard) and it does not function correctly unless I boot without driver signing so that I can use the legacy firewire driver I copied out of a Windows 7 x64 PC as it is not included in Win8 anymore.

    I spent quite a bit of money on importing a SIIG FireWire 2-Port PCIe (NN-E20012-S2) firewire controller, it has a Texas Instruments chip but even with this, I still have to use the legacy driver.

    Please consider adding the legacy driver back into Windows 8.  it is a well documented fact that many audio engineers used this driver to get their audio interfaces working 100% in Windows 7.

    I also met someone who uses a scanner and he also could only get it to function correctly using the legacy driver stripped out of a Win7 install.

    Please Microsoft, give us the legacy firewire driver back, it does work, all you have to do is sign the drivers! :)


    +100
    Thursday, October 18, 2012 1:06 PM
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    I forgot to post this in the OP, but here's the workaround I use: http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=15505


    Monday, October 22, 2012 6:29 AM
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    Well I can confirm that Windows 8 Pro x64 does not have the legacy IEEE1394 Firewire driver either.  It is starting to seem like Microsoft are not interested in supporting firewire, which is going to mean many professional musicians, recording engineers are going to have to give Windows 8 a miss.

    Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:05 PM
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    Windows 8 sees my firewire controller, whether I use the onboard VIA chipset that's built into my motherboard or if I use the Texas Instruments based SIIG firewire PCI-E card, both of them are visible in device manager and 'work' .. the problem is that a lot of audio hardware requires the legacy firewire driver which was available in Windows 7.  The current/newer firewire driver that ships with Windows Vista, 7 and 8 is a newer driver that doesn't work with a lot of devices.


    Switching to the legacy driver is the only way to get some devices working.  Windows 8 lacks this driver.
    Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:28 PM
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    I will probably just go back to Windows 7 until such a time Microsoft sign and release the legacy FW drivers.
    Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:37 PM
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    > Please Microsoft, give us the legacy firewire driver back, it does work, all you have to do is sign the drivers! :)

    100% agreed. Every time I want any audio work done (or want to listen to music or play games), I have to reboot with driver signing disabled.

    Monday, October 29, 2012 8:51 AM
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    Yes please put back the firewire legacy driver. Even RME has stated that driver was more efficient. Why should we spend money for Win 8 and have to use W7 for our DAWS? If I had the choice, I'd take a refund with a roll back to Win7

     I use bootcamp on my Macbook Pro for remote DAW -you can bet I won't be downgrading to Win 8 on that.

     People are having a problem which could easily be solved.
    Sunday, November 4, 2012 9:30 PM
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    I agree to sign the legacy Drivers. These are the only drivers that allow my firewire device (floppyDTV TV Card) to work properly after Standby. In Win7 there are no Problems with the legacy driver.

    Uninteresting for microsoft? For me the decision is easy. New hardware for ~160 € or renounce win8 and stick with win7.


    • Edited by simpel1970 Wednesday, November 7, 2012 9:52 AM
    Wednesday, November 7, 2012 9:49 AM
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    I also agree 100%, I need this Legacy Driver for connecting a DV camera, a lot of People use older DV-Camcorders which only have a firewire connection to the PC.

    These Camcorders dont work with the new Drivers.

    The same problem was already with Windows7, but could easily  be  solved with this legacy Driver, and this Driver worked.

    Should all these people throw away their older Equipment, because Microsoft don't want to sign and release this Driver again.

    Please Microsoft, give us the legacy firewire driver back.

    Monday, November 12, 2012 4:24 PM
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    Like the OP, I too have an RME FireFace 400 which runs over firewire. I'm not particularly fond of the idea of discarding my 2 year old, $1000+ sound card simply because a legacy driver isn't signed. I'm really enjoying Windows 8 so far, but I'm happy I kept my Windows 7 drive intact as a last resort backup.

    I'll be keeping my FF400 and Win8 installed in the hope that the legacy firewire makes a come back, but I'll be warning everyone with firewire hardware to steer clear of Windows 8 until then.

    Sunday, December 2, 2012 12:31 PM
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    The question is, how does one contact Microsoft directly? I've tried phoning my regional offices to get details but it's an utter nightmare, the support staff are incredibly incompetent.
    Thursday, December 6, 2012 12:09 AM
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    Follow steps on Troubleshoot Compatibility Issues in Windows 8 Release Preview and see if it solve your issue. You might be able to run driver in compatibility mode.

    It is good idea to inform the manufacturer of this issue too.

    This does not solve the problem.

    I can confirm the legacy drives works with my Texas instrument PCI-e firewire but disabling drivers signature is not a practical solution.

    I can't use my firewire audio interface (edirol fa 101), I am wandering if anybody is able to use a firewire audio interface on windows 8, so far I only saw negative reports ...

    Audio interface are very expensive hardware, we need signed working drivers now !


    • Edited by tosska Friday, December 21, 2012 2:25 PM
    Friday, December 21, 2012 2:23 PM
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    Hi everybody

    thanks for this post

    same problem as yours

    WE NEED A SIGNED LEGACY DRIVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Saturday, December 22, 2012 1:45 PM
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    Look museum pieces like old Firewire will not be supported forever.

    Time to modernize and find new cameras with a hard disk or solid state storage.

    My integrated audio hardware is a reasonable tone source too.


    These are not "museum pieces" some of us are talking about $1000+ audio and video hardware, these are not casual consumer items like scanners/cheap cameras but rather high end professional audio devices.  It would cost a minimum of $1000 to replace my audio interface.

    I know firewire is slowly being phased out but Windows 8 still supports Firewire, it is only lacking the 'legacy' driver that has been included in Windows Vista and Windows 7.  It's only about 500kb in size and works in Windows 8, all Microsoft have to do is sign it and offer it as a Windows Update. 





    Sunday, December 23, 2012 11:27 AM
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    as I have said time and time again, dual boot 7 and 8

    its obviously deprecated


    Not a practical solution for many and I don't think it's entirely legal.

    Dual boot options

    I just bought a Windows 7 machine and purchased the $14.95 Windows 8 upgrade. Can I keep my Windows 7 running and install Windows 8 on a second partition or in a virtual machine. The "Upgrade Assistant" looks for an existing OS so I could not figure out a way to do that easy.

    Technically, no, that is a violation of the license agreement. The upgrade replaces the old license completely. The terms are written in very clear language: The software covered by this agreement is an upgrade to your existing operating system software, so the upgrade replaces the original software that you are upgrading. You do not retain any rights to the original software after you have upgraded and you may not continue to use it or transfer it in any way.

    source: http://www.zdnet.com/the-ultimate-windows-8-upgrade-faq-7000006815/

    Sunday, December 23, 2012 3:47 PM
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    as I have said time and time again, dual boot 7 and 8

    its obviously deprecated

    Windows MVP, XP, Vista, 7 and 8. More people have climbed Everest than having 3 MVP's on the wall.

    Hardcore Games, Legendary is the only Way to Play

    Developer | Windows IT | Chess | Economics | Vegan Advocate | PC Reviews

    It might deprecated but this is utter nonsense :

    high end  firewire audio interface are still being sold right now, they are used by half the musician population, it is way way too early to deprecate those drivers.


    • Edited by tosska Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:09 AM
    Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:07 AM
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    Just what i have done,

    back to Seven

    please tell us when it's done

    Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:00 AM
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    I need the legacy Firewire driver too!!!

    Microsoft please add it to Windows 8!

    Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:32 AM
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    Hi,

    I can confirm that the Windows 7 Legacy Firewire driver works great in Windows 8 32 bit however I know I will need a signed version of the 64 bit driver when I buy my new computer this month. Dual booting is not a option because I enjoy the benefits of Windows 8 and like to do all my work in one OS. To anyone at MS who is concerned please pass this request to the correct people. Would a Kickstarter campaign help the cause? All that is needed is for MS to sign the 64 bit driver and offer it as a separate download. Please advise me on the correct way to rectify this issue and not workarounds like dual booting windows 7. 

    Note to forum mods: Windows 8 is excellent to the point its hard to go back to using Windows 7. MS has real opportunity to dominate the Pro Audio market given the current state of OSX and Apple Pro computers and Logic Pro. Please forward this thread to the correct Windows 8 people because its an easy solution that will prevent negativity amongst audio device manufactures, pro audio musicians and future up-graders.

    Thank you for your time and for volunteering to help people on these forums.

       

    Sunday, January 6, 2013 8:17 PM
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    I have managed to get some joy temporarily using a third party firewire stack/driver.

    http://www.qimaging.com/support/downloads/

    Scroll down to the bottom to the IEEE-1394 section.

    disclaimer: Your millage may vary + backup your data!

    But this seems to be working perfectly with my RME Fireface 400 on Win8 x64


    Tuesday, January 8, 2013 10:02 PM
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    I need the legacy driver for my M-audio Firewire 410, please re-implement it in windows 8 !
    Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:09 PM
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    Hmm... so if I read this right, if you install these files from Windows 7, you get a functioning 1394 audio driver? Interesting...

    c:\windows\inf\1394.inf
    c:\windows\inf\1394.pnf
    c:\windows\system32\drivers\1394bus.sys
    c:\windows\system32\drivers\1394ohci.sys
    c:\windows\system32\drivers\ohci1394.sys

    FWIW, if you want a signed driver, you don't need Microsoft to sign the driver for you; you can sign it using a self-issued certificate.

    http://blogs.msdn.com/b/matthew_van_eerde/archive/2011/09/14/how-to-install-unsigned-drivers.aspx

    Rupf points to the technique here:

    http://www.deploymentresearch.com/Blog/tabid/62/EntryId/63/Sign-your-unsigned-drivers-Damn-It.aspx

    Matthew van Eerde

    Wednesday, January 16, 2013 1:22 AM
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    FWIW, if you want a signed driver, you don't need Microsoft to sign the driver for you; you can sign it using a self-issued certificate.

    http://blogs.msdn.com/b/matthew_van_eerde/archive/2011/09/14/how-to-install-unsigned-drivers.aspx

    Rupf points to the technique here:

    http://www.deploymentresearch.com/Blog/tabid/62/EntryId/63/Sign-your-unsigned-drivers-Damn-It.aspx

    Matthew van Eerde

    I did try self signing the legacy FW driver from Win7 but I had problems doing so, I did manage to sign another driver once but for some reason this one didn't work for some reason.

    Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:00 PM
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    I just went through swapping 4 different 1394 cards in my desktop with windows 8.

    Then, found a card at newegg that WORKS.  Rosewill RC-506E for about $30.  PCI express 1394A and B card.

    Now my $5k in video equipment captures to Pinnacle Studio like it did before.

    I was going to go the route of the legacy drivers, but the $30 " plug it in and it works" was much easier.

     

    Saturday, January 19, 2013 7:20 PM
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    I just went through swapping 4 different 1394 cards in my desktop with windows 8.

    Then, found a card at newegg that WORKS.  Rosewill RC-506E for about $30.  PCI express 1394A and B card.

    Now my $5k in video equipment captures to Pinnacle Studio like it did before.

    I was going to go the route of the legacy drivers, but the $30 " plug it in and it works" was much easier.

    Glad that's helped you!  Sadly I can't get that card in my country, I can't even verify the chipset it uses, I'll have to check on that later. 
    Saturday, January 19, 2013 8:33 PM
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    Curious to understand why it would work on one of the controllers but not on the other. Is it possible to get 1394 traces for analysis?

    Steps to get the traces:

    1. Please revert back to the default Win8 1394 driver.

    2. Copy instructions from the "start.cmd" section below to  a notepad file and save it as start.cmd

    3. Copy instructions from the "stop.cmd" section below to a notepad file and save it as stop.cmd

    4. Open a command prompt window with local Administrator Credentials (Run as Administrator on cmd)

    5. Go to where the start.cmd file is located and run the cmd file by just typing the file name. Please report back if you see any failures in this step

    6. Reboot the machine

    7. Once the machine comes back, try to reproduce the problem you are facing.

    8. After the repro is complete, go to the location where stop.cmd is stored and again from command prompt opened with administrator credentials, run stop.cmd

    9. Reboot the machine

    10. Your Windows\Tracing folder (usually in C:\Windows\tracing\) should contain a file similar to 1394ohci.etl.xxx. Please share the file here.

    start.cmd contents:

    set binaryname=1394ohci
set binaryguid=3979F0A6-8A10-4cfd-BF20-9E45279D6C19
@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\1394ohci\Parameters" /v "VerboseOn" /t  REG_DWORD /d 0x1 /f
@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\1394ohci\Parameters" /v "LogPages" /t  REG_DWORD /d 0x10 /f 
@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\WMI\Autologger\%binaryname%\{%binaryguid%}" /v EnableFlags /t  REG_DWORD /d 0xffffffff /f
@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\WMI\Autologger\%binaryname%\{%binaryguid%}" /v EnableLevel /t  REG_DWORD /d 0xffffffff /f
@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\WMI\Autologger\%binaryname%\{%binaryguid%}" /v Enabled /t  REG_DWORD /d 0x1 /f
@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\WMI\Autologger\%binaryname%\{%binaryguid%}" /v Status /t  REG_DWORD /d 0 /f

@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\WMI\Autologger\%binaryname%" /v GUID /t  REG_SZ /d {%binaryguid%} /f
@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\WMI\Autologger\%binaryname%" /v FileName /t  REG_SZ /d %SystemRoot%\Tracing\%binaryname%.etl /f
@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\WMI\Autologger\%binaryname%" /v FileMax /t  REG_DWORD /d 1000 /f
@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\WMI\Autologger\%binaryname%" /v MaxFileSize /t  REG_DWORD /d 1000 /f
@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\WMI\Autologger\%binaryname%" /v LogFileMode /t  REG_DWORD /d 0x1202 /f
@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\WMI\Autologger\%binaryname%" /v Start /t  REG_DWORD /d 1 /f
@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\WMI\Autologger\%binaryname%" /v Status /t  REG_DWORD /d 0 /f
@REG ADD "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\WMI\Autologger\%binaryname%" /v FlushTimer /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f

    stop.cmd contents:

    set binaryname=1394ohci
@REG DELETE "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\WMI\AutoLogger\1394ohci" /f

    Friday, February 1, 2013 7:43 PM
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    Curious to understand why it would work on one of the controllers but not on the other. Is it possible to get 1394 traces for analysis?


    Hi, thanks for taking an active interest!

    I have run a trace using the steps you have provided.  Sometimes it's quick to reproduce the error, sometimes it takes a few minutes.

    The trace file is 89MB compressed with WinRAR, I can upload it to my Dropbox share but is there any confidential information contained in the trace I should be concerned about?  Otherwise I can email you the link personally.

    Thanks

    Saturday, February 2, 2013 1:55 PM
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    Firewire bus driver is a kernel-mode driver and, according to the Microsoft specifications, you are not able to self-sign this.

    Of course you can try, but the output of "SignTool verify" without the /pa switch (if the /pa option is not specified, SignTool uses the Windows Driver Verification Policy, which we need) command will be root CA trust error.

    I don't think that Microsoft will sign the legacy driver and include it with future updates, so I vote for crowdsourcing some money for proven driver-signing certificate from authorized authority (like VeriSign).

    Who's with me? :)

    funkyspacecadet,

    I have read your topic at RME Audio Forum, what TI IEEE1394 bus do you use with Thesycon driver? I have VIA-based controller and it's not compatible with Thesycon solution and my M-Audio firewire card.



    • Edited by iamrcn Saturday, February 2, 2013 7:18 PM
    Saturday, February 2, 2013 7:11 PM
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    TBH I think the crowd sourcing idea would never work.

    As for the Thesycon driver, it works 100% with my Texas Instruments SIIG card, ahve not tried it on my onboard VIA port, I imagine it might.

    And the Unibrain drivers? Although I don't think those will help, they certainly dont' talk to my Fireface 400 at all.

    Saturday, February 2, 2013 8:44 PM
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    Curious to understand why it would work on one of the controllers but not on the other. Is it possible to get 1394 traces for analysis?


    Hi, thanks for taking an active interest!

    I have run a trace using the steps you have provided.  Sometimes it's quick to reproduce the error, sometimes it takes a few minutes.

    The trace file is 89MB compressed with WinRAR, I can upload it to my Dropbox share but is there any confidential information contained in the trace I should be concerned about?  Otherwise I can email you the link personally.

    Thanks


    Sure, thanks for spending your time on getting the traces. There should be nothing in the traces that is confidential in nature. You can post a link to the etl file.
    Monday, February 4, 2013 1:05 AM
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    Sure, thanks for spending your time on getting the traces. There should be nothing in the traces that is confidential in nature. You can post a link to the etl file.

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20482435/1394ohci.etl.rar

    There you go.  I hope this will assist you, if you need anything else, please don't hesitate to ask!

    Monday, February 4, 2013 5:48 AM
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    Thanks funkyspacecadet! Downloaded the file, so it is fine if you take down the link now.
    Monday, February 4, 2013 11:08 PM
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    Thanks funkyspacecadet! Downloaded the file, so it is fine if you take down the link now.
    Done, thanks!
    Tuesday, February 5, 2013 5:43 AM
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    I need the legacy driver for my 2000$ audio interface too, its complete worthless now.
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:18 AM
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    Could those also having problems please produce and upload a trace for GuruprasadSubbarayan?
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:29 AM
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    Hi Funkyspacecadet, we looked at your etl and we had to look through around 3 gigs of logs. From first looks, we were not sure when the repro happened. Is it possible to point us to the time when you think the repro happened? Also, will it be possible to get logs again and also tell us an approximate time of when the repro happens in the log? Also, for the repro, can you tell me what the symptom is (ie. is the audio glitchy or the audio stops completely?). Thanks for your help again!

    If anyone else is having problems with your 1394 device with the Win8 stack, can you get us the traces and also briefly describe the symptom and the time at which the repro happens/starts?

    Monday, February 11, 2013 10:48 PM
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    Hi Funkyspacecadet, we looked at your etl and we had to look through around 3 gigs of logs. From first looks, we were not sure when the repro happened. Is it possible to point us to the time when you think the repro happened? Also, will it be possible to get logs again and also tell us an approximate time of when the repro happens in the log? Also, for the repro, can you tell me what the symptom is (ie. is the audio glitchy or the audio stops completely?). Thanks for your help again!

    If anyone else is having problems with your 1394 device with the Win8 stack, can you get us the traces and also briefly describe the symptom and the time at which the repro happens/starts?

    Thanks again for taking the time, I really appreciate it!

    I can't pinpoint an exact time, I'll perform another test tonight for you as it's easy to reproduce.

    Symptoms:  After a random amount of time the audio just loops, kind of like a buffer loop, but imagine the length of the buffer is about 1ms in length.  So the 'beeeeep' buffer looping sound is dependant on the volume of the sound being played back.  It's basically identical to taking a .wav file and cutting a portion of it that's just a mere 1ms long or a few samples length and looping it.

    This happens in ANY audio application, whether I'm using my browser to watch Youtube, or play a video game or, most importantly, ork in my DAW which uses ASIO.  Obviously my browser/mp3 player etc; use DirectSound/WDM, same issues.

    Things I have tried that have had no effect:
    * Using my motherboard onboard VIA 6315N 1394 contoller.
    * Using my SIIG NN-E20012-S2 PCIe card (Texas Instruments TI XIO2200AZGW chip
    * Performance / Power Profile in Win8 is set to High Performance
    * CPU C1, C3 etc; options disabled/enabled
    * Spread Spectrum in BIOS is disabled/enable
    * All other CPU power saving options disabled/enabled
    * Disabled VIA onboard FW controller while I use my SIIG card
    * Swearing and cursing :)

    When the audio does glitch, I don't see any real CPU/disk activity that causes it.  If I close my audio application (browser or game or music software) I can resume normal playback.

    What DOES help.
    * Using my workaround to use the legacy FW driver from Win7 x64.
    * Using the Thesycon driver from Qimaging's support/downloads

    In both those two cases, it's 100% stable, but obviously I have to reboot my PC twice to use unsigned drivers.  In fact, with either the Thesycon or legacy driver, I can abuse my PC with Winrar on all 8 threads, all sorts of heavy things and no audio dropouts or glitches. 

    System Specs (self built, not OEM)
    CPU: Intel Core i7 2600k
    Motherboard: Asus P8P67M-Pro with latest BIOS
    RAM: 4x4GB DDR3 1333mhz
    GPU: Asus Radeon 5870 with latest drivers
    Disks: OCZ Vertex 4 SSD with 2x 1TB using Windows's soft-raid mirror.
    Windows 8 Pro x64 with all latest updates.

    I performed a clean install when I installed Win8 (ie: booted via USB, then from disk manager formatted C:)

    No bloatware/viruses of any kind, the only apps I have in the background are RME Fireface drivers + Microsoft Security Essentials

    I had all these problems with Windows 7 x64 too, but obviously it wasn't a big deal then because the legacy driver was available.

    I hope that gives you more background / useful information.  I'll run another trace and try give you the times I start the trace and when it glitches.

    Thanks!

    Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:10 AM
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    GuruprasadSubbarayan, I'll do traces this weekend, been really crazy busy this week!

    Stay tuned :)

    Friday, February 15, 2013 5:51 AM
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    Sure, thanks! :)
    Friday, February 15, 2013 8:04 PM
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    Ok here's the latest trace.
    I followed the same commands as you instructed.

    Pretty much as soon as my PC booted, started playing an MP3 it glitched, which is why the trace is so small, compared to the old one.

    I forgot to get times, but hopefully the trace is small enough to make it easier to detect this time.

    If you need another trace, please let me know how you'd want times to be reported.  Would an uptime be more useful?  ie: I could indicate the glitch happens at say, uptime of 00:45 or something. 

    Trace #2 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20482435/_webshare/2_1394ohci.etl.rar

    Thanks again!
    Friday, February 15, 2013 10:53 PM
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    Also, would it not help to perform a trace on my soundcard's driver?
    Friday, February 15, 2013 10:57 PM
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    Thanks funkyspacecadet again for the traces! The information you provided on the symptoms and hardware is really useful. We are taking a look at the traces. Will get back if incase we need your help again :)
    Monday, February 18, 2013 11:58 PM
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    Thanks funkyspacecadet again for the traces! The information you provided on the symptoms and hardware is really useful. We are taking a look at the traces. Will get back if incase we need your help again :)
    You guys rock, thanks! :)
    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 5:34 AM
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    Could someone from Microsoft plainly tell me why the company cannot release a SIGNED, Windows 8 version of "1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller (Legacy)" driver? It would fix all my problems, and I'm sure lots of pro audio hardware owners would agree.

    Sunday, February 24, 2013 8:55 PM
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    Hi Funkyspacecadet, looks like RME has an updated version of drivers/firmware for the device and it specifies Windows 8 - http://www.rme-audio.de/en_downloads.php?page=content/downloads/en_downloads_driver&subpage=content/downloads/en_downloads_driver_fireface Is it possible to see if the update solves the problem? Let me know if you have tried that already :)
    Thursday, February 28, 2013 2:29 AM
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    Hi Funkyspacecadet, looks like RME has an updated version of drivers/firmware for the device and it specifies Windows 8 - http://www.rme-audio.de/en_downloads.php?page=content/downloads/en_downloads_driver&subpage=content/downloads/en_downloads_driver_fireface Is it possible to see if the update solves the problem? Let me know if you have tried that already :)

    Yeah, lol, obviously I've tried that ;-)

    This isn't an RME specific issue though, it's been established since Vista that the only way a lot of people can get joy from their firewire devices is to use the legacy driver, it has been reported with RME, MOTU, M-Audio, and so on, and also firewire scanners, cameras etc;

    Not trying to be rude or anything, just trying to stress the point it's quite a global issue and I personally had this with Windows 7, too, at least Win 7 had the legacy option available :(


    Thursday, February 28, 2013 12:07 PM
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    I also need a 1394 legacy driver. I have a floppydtv DVB-C tv-tuner that works without a problem with firewire legacy drivers. The problem is that it is EOL (End of Life). So there won't be coming new drivers or firmware for these TV-tuners and now it crashes many times using these 1394 drivers provided in windows 8. Din't have this problem under windows 7 with the legacy drivers.
    • Edited by pip158 Saturday, March 2, 2013 10:16 AM
    Saturday, March 2, 2013 10:15 AM
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    Hi pip158,

    i also have two FloppyDTV C Tuner. But only Problems after Standby (sometimes -but not always- Bluescreens after wake up from Standby; caused by 61883.sys (which belongs to firewire).

    With Win7 and the legacy Driver, there are still no Problems!

    Do you have crashes while the PC is running?



    • Edited by simpel1970 Thursday, March 14, 2013 2:12 PM
    Thursday, March 14, 2013 2:06 PM
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    GuruprasadSubbarayan, any news? This is getting depressing and very frustrating!  I wish Microsoft would just make the old driver available, since, that worked for so many people and seemed to be more compatible with a bigger variety of FW controllers.
    Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:27 AM
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    Hi there.

    I'm running Windows 8 RTM Enterprise x64.  I use an RME Fireface 400 audio interface (soundcard) and it does not function correctly unless I boot without driver signing so that I can use the legacy firewire driver I copied out of a Windows 7 x64 PC as it is not included in Win8 anymore.

    I spent quite a bit of money on importing a SIIG FireWire 2-Port PCIe (NN-E20012-S2) firewire controller, it has a Texas Instruments chip but even with this, I still have to use the legacy driver.

    Please consider adding the legacy driver back into Windows 8.  it is a well documented fact that many audio engineers used this driver to get their audio interfaces working 100% in Windows 7.

    I also met someone who uses a scanner and he also could only get it to function correctly using the legacy driver stripped out of a Win7 install.

    Please Microsoft, give us the legacy firewire driver back, it does work, all you have to do is sign the drivers! :)

    Hi funkyspacecadet,

    After checking SIIG product and product support site there are these facts:

    1. You need hardware version v2.0 which is clearly marked on the card for Windows 8 compatibility.
    2. The manual recommends a specific installation procedure-use it-Windows 8 has drivers for the device
    3. The manual recommends connecting the internal power connector when you are having external device issues-try it.

    Here is the link to the v2.0 manual. Read it.

    SIIG makes very nice cards that work well with Windows. If you have hardware version 2.0, you should not have any issues. If you have v1.0, it will not work.

    Here is the SIIG product page to contact SIIG support if you continue to have issues. Windows 8 is different than Windows 7 and not all hardware from Win 7 or earlier will be compatible.

    Which hardware version do you have?

    Wednesday, March 20, 2013 11:17 AM
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    I don't think that Microsoft will sign the legacy driver and include it with future updates, so I vote for crowdsourcing some money for proven driver-signing certificate from authorized authority (like VeriSign).

    Who's with me? :)

    funkyspacecadet,




    I'm in for crowdsourcing. 

    Have probably a few others at the Tascamforum also which would be interested. We use Tascam high-end FW audio interfaces and the legacy driver is keeping us at win7...

    Anyone have a clue what a signing would cost? 

    http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/libwdi/index.php?title=Signed_driver_walkthrough

    Tuesday, April 9, 2013 8:38 AM
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    Sorry but *bumpedy bump* would really like to get rid of test mode and have a proper legacy firewire driver. Microsoft peeps?
    Thursday, April 18, 2013 8:26 PM
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    Hi funkyspacecadet,

    After checking SIIG product and product support site there are these facts:

    1. You need hardware version v2.0 which is clearly marked on the card for Windows 8 compatibility.
    2. The manual recommends a specific installation procedure-use it-Windows 8 has drivers for the device
    3. The manual recommends connecting the internal power connector when you are having external device issues-try it.

    Here is the link to the v2.0 manual. Read it.

    SIIG makes very nice cards that work well with Windows. If you have hardware version 2.0, you should not have any issues. If you have v1.0, it will not work.

    Here is the SIIG product page to contact SIIG support if you continue to have issues. Windows 8 is different than Windows 7 and not all hardware from Win 7 or earlier will be compatible.

    Which hardware version do you have?

    Sorry for this very late reply, I think I'm on version 2.0 - I'd have to check next time I open my PC.

    In the last few weeks, RME have updated their driver and managed to solve my specific problems, I am very greatful to them!  Sadly I see on the forums / friends it has not resolved the issue for everyone.  Long story short, Microsoft really do need to make the legacy driver available.  It clearly helps a lot of people and it does work in Windows 8, even if unsigned.


    Monday, April 22, 2013 6:03 AM
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    I don't think that Microsoft will sign the legacy driver and include it with future updates, so I vote for crowdsourcing some money for proven driver-signing certificate from authorized authority (like VeriSign).

    Who's with me? :)

    funkyspacecadet,




    I'm in for crowdsourcing. 

    Have probably a few others at the Tascamforum also which would be interested. We use Tascam high-end FW audio interfaces and the legacy driver is keeping us at win7...

    Anyone have a clue what a signing would cost? 

    http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/libwdi/index.php?title=Signed_driver_walkthrough


    But.. can you sign a driver belonging to Microsoft?
    Monday, April 22, 2013 6:23 AM
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    +1 for this request.

    I'm another pro audio systems vendor (and MS solutions partner) joing this thread where I see a few of us already. This is a very, very well known issue in our industry and the are $1000 - $2000 audio interfaces still being sold daily that require this legacy driver to function smoothly, let alone the older hardware in circulation.

    I've been keeping my clients on Win7 but a Win7 bug in one of the popular sequencers is forcing us to move over and this is going to cause so many headaches. I'm going to try the RME solution now and i really don't expect to see this resolve, but it really can't hurt for us to keep bringing attention to this issue.
    Friday, April 26, 2013 3:24 PM
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    +1 and loop to infinity

    Hopefully DAWs and Audio  will move off MS in the future so we no longer have to beg MS.

    Its things like this that make you realise you are better relying on an open system that is community supported.

    Thursday, August 15, 2013 1:16 AM
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    I'm not even sure this is because of the legacy driver issue, or the Win 8 driver has errors in general. Win 7 the driver worked fine and, although I may have and forgot about it, I don't remember setting legacy. My Canon Digital Camcorder XH A1S, shows in the device drivers by name, and errors, saying it can't be installed. There has to be a better way to deal with this. I have tried a legacy driver, per www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=15505, but it still won't work.  Could you please bring back not just the legacy driver, but also the logic that decided when and how to use it.
    Friday, November 8, 2013 6:42 PM
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    I used the same IEEE-1394 drivers downloaded from http://www.qimaging.com/support/downloads/ for my camera Panasonic NV-DX100 and it works! Use to save all my DV video on a PC with Windows 8.1 64bit. Information how to use the drivers directly on the download. Thanks
    Thursday, January 2, 2014 9:16 PM
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    I used the same IEEE-1394 drivers downloaded from http://www.qimaging.com/support/downloads/ for my camera Panasonic NV-DX100 and it works! Use to save all my DV video on a PC with Windows 8.1 64bit. Information how to use the drivers directly on the download. Thanks

    Thank you, thank you, thank you! I was tearing my hair out trying to get my Panasonic NV-DS5 mini-DV camcorder to work properly under Win 8.1 64-bit, and this is the solution!

    Just to clarify, the file to download at the QImaging site is the QCam Installer for Windows (the top file on the downloads page).  Just select the appropriate file for your OS (32-bit or 64-bit). After downloading, double click it and it will guide you through the process of installing the correct Firewire driver (it's largely automatic). I chose to install all components.  And the best part is, it really does work!!  Thank you pic1960 and QImaging!  

    Tuesday, April 29, 2014 4:45 PM
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    I am finding the regular "Texas Instruments 1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller" driver to be working better that the legacy one for pro audio after the 8.1.1 update. Anyone else?

    Wednesday, April 30, 2014 4:00 AM
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    Any chance you could tell us the version of this driver (from device manager) ?

    I know some companies have improved their drivers for Win8 (RME, for example) but maybe there is a new driver in Win 8.1.1 (I'm sticking with 8.0 for now).

    Friday, May 9, 2014 7:00 PM
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    Sure its:

    1394ohci.sys 6.3.9600.16384(winblue_rtm.130821-1623)

    I find this to be better than the "legacy" driver when used with my Motu MK3 audio device.

    Sunday, May 11, 2014 4:44 PM
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    Thanks!

    Hm, mine may be the same as yours, the numbers differ (6.2.9200.16384 for me)

    however we both have 16384 in ours, so perhaps the Win8.1 is just an updated build but not changed/updated in how it functions.. I'd have to update to 8.1 to really know, though.

    However, with the Thesycon driver so far I'm able to get about 5ms round trip in my DAW - 44khz, 24bit with a 48 samples buffer size so I am quite impressed with the super low latency!  This was possible partly from using the Thesycon driver but also putting my GPU and other devices on MSI (as apposed to IRQ) which has reduced the interrupts I was getting.

    Weirdly enough, my Texas Instruments firewire PCI-e card died recently, using the VIA onboard controller and I haven't noticed any real difference.. I think the whole "you need a TI card" thing may be a bit overhyped.

    This is with an RME Fireface 400.


    Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:38 AM