locked
Microsoft, listen this time please! -- BREADCRUMBS

    General discussion

  • Ok first things first.

    Microsoft: You're going to HAVE to accept that some of us use the classic interface.
    I know you don't want us to but the technical types out there do, ok, we just do, we need a VERY FAST and snappy UI and we need it ASAP.
    XP does this, in classic mode it's fast, predictable, reliable - furthermore it looks identical to Win2k3  AND it looks identical to RDP XP and RDP Win2k3 - it's great.


    So..... on that note.
    Windows 7's first complaint is breadcrumbs, I hated them in Vista, I hate them in Win7, I am happy for them to be an option but for the love of god can we have the things turned off somewhere? It can't be hard.

    The "Avenobreadcrumb" plugin some fellow made for Vista, does not work on Vista 64, nor does it work on Win7 64.
    So, what say you? an option under tools "folder options" to disable breadcrumbs.
    PLEASE.

    Other administrators, support staff, techs, or just plain oldschool people - any comments?

    Thanks
    (note: This is going to be one, of many, many posts - and I'm a relentless vehement tool, I don't want you to change it for everyone, I just want OPTIONS for people like me)

    Wednesday, February 18, 2009 11:39 PM

All replies

  • Hi Scott

    I think everyone here is aware of your passion about the old style user interface. I have already given you the information for providing feedback to the product team. Although you are welcome to discuss any subject you wish here, as long as it pertains to the Windows 7 beta.

    However, creating multiple threads about the same subject is considered disruptrive, since it clogs up the forums and buries other users threads.

    I call your attention to the  Code of Conduct  for these TechNet Forums.

    Especially the follow excerpt:

    "Be Nice
    Microsoft does not tolerate disruptive activity online, such as persistent off-topic comments and postings or statements that incite others to violate this Code of Conduct or participate in illegal activities. Our participants want to chat and post on our collaborative services in a positive environment."

     

    Thanks for understanding.

     

    Ronnie Vernon MVP
    Forum Moderator
    Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:19 AM
    Moderator
  • I have no concept of what you're talking about, I have not created multiple threads about the same subject in any way.



    Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:12 AM
  • what he meant is taht you made a thread that has the same topic of an already existing thread....

    plus, you seem to be creating many threads, why don't you just condense them as one, or simply send it as a feedback through windows 7 feedback tool instead...
    Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:17 AM
  • I'll second ZEIGHY's comments:
    four threads in this forum; one of which mirrors an already-existing 'general discussion' thread that's currently active.
    Proof (as of this writing):  http://social.technet.microsoft.com/forums/en-US/threads/?user=scottylans

    The above points, plus the fact that you do wish the Win7 product team to actually see (and, possibly, act on) your thoughts on the UI, do, IMHO, make your activities of today border on 'forum-abusive.':
    There's a sticky in the 'miscellaneous' thread (aside @ Ronnie:  perhaps, to increase visibility, that thread could have links to it located in each of the other Win7 subforums, or a link on the Win7 forums main page?) that Ronnie linked to for feedback;  also, there is the 'send feedback' link throughout the OS (and, yes, it does work. ;)  )
    And, yes, you could have combined your four feedback issues (because, they are feedback, not "broken, please help!" issues) into one thread.  Less clutter that way.  Less clutter = better experience for all (and, a better chance of getting real problems looked at.)

    Just my $0.02,
    Chris
    [If this post helps to resolve your issue, please click the "Mark as Answer" or "Helpful" button at the top of this message. By marking a post as Answered, or Helpful you help others find the answer faster.]
    Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:34 AM
  • scottylans said:

    I have no concept of what you're talking about, I have not created multiple threads about the same subject in any way.

    Scott

    Maybe I misunderstood your comment in another thread.


    scottylans said:

    now that I've found this forum, I will destroy this place until I get some answers, so have no fear, you have an internet crusader at your side, I am essentially devil spawn for moderators.


    Your complaints all have the same general theme about one or more classic options. All of the classic components that you mentioned were not removed from Windows 7, because they never existed in the Windows 7 code. They were removed in the earliest stages of the Windows Vista beta, 6-7 years ago. The breadcrumbs were first implemented in Windows Vista, not Windows 7.

    However, if you want to try and convince the Windows 7 product team to bring those components back, you are welcome to use the feedback thread that I mentioned in your other threads.


    Thank you for understanding.



    Ronnie Vernon MVP
    Forum Moderator
    Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:48 AM
    Moderator
  • "Less clutter that way.  Less clutter = better experience for all (and, a better chance of getting real problems looked at.)"


    Ridiculous, I will be quite comfortable in being able to list at least 20 items, maybe 30 or more that I have issue with in Windows Explorer for a start.

    Now if I put all that, in to a single thread it will be absoloutely and utterly diluted completely and the post itself will be 9000 characters long, not including the screenshots required to get my point across.


    Thursday, February 19, 2009 9:43 PM
  • "They were removed in the earliest stages of the Windows Vista beta, 6-7 years ago. The breadcrumbs were first implemented in Windows Vista, not Windows 7."

    I don't see any value in being pedantic about when these things were removed.
    I think we both know Microsoft would like to forget Vista ever existed, they want to put 7 out as quickly as possible and they want Windows 7 to be much better recieved than Vista.

    So ultimately, when something was changed, doesn't concern me - the problem is it was changed for the worse, I'm glad some people like it but an option for it would be nice.  (So I'll be sticking that also in the huge thread, how it will be of any use, I don't know -  I mean such a massive thread, it would be very very difficult for anyone to actually track peoples multiple posts and explanation of what they mean in their posts in the first place)


    Thursday, February 19, 2009 9:46 PM
  • I don't get the problem with the breadcrumbs...

    Just click into the textbox and you get the full path as you would have in previous explorer windows...
    Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:28 PM
  • scottylans said:

    "They were removed in the earliest stages of the Windows Vista beta, 6-7 years ago. The breadcrumbs were first implemented in Windows Vista, not Windows 7."

    I don't see any value in being pedantic about when these things were removed.
    I think we both know Microsoft would like to forget Vista ever existed, they want to put 7 out as quickly as possible and they want Windows 7 to be much better recieved than Vista.

    So ultimately, when something was changed, doesn't concern me - the problem is it was changed for the worse, I'm glad some people like it but an option for it would be nice.  (So I'll be sticking that also in the huge thread, how it will be of any use, I don't know -  I mean such a massive thread, it would be very very difficult for anyone to actually track peoples multiple posts and explanation of what they mean in their posts in the first place)

    Scott

    Thanks for the feedback.

    I think that everyone here understands what you are wanting and that you are passionate about your agenda, you have been very clear about that. However, if you spend some time reading these forums, you will find that there are other users here that are just as passionate about removing some of these same features that, in their opinion, are no longer needed and just add bloat to the OS.

    There are other existing threads here with users posting who are asking for the same thing that you are. Find those threads and add your support.

    My responses were just meant to try and explain some of the issues that might make adding back features, that were removed a long time ago, problematic. You make it sound simple, but you cannot simply add code to a program as complex as an operating system, at will. Every piece of code has an effect on all of the existing code. It has to be added, tested internally and externally before it can be included in the final version.

    Two of the high level Microsoft Executives that are responsible for the Windows 7 development are running a blog where they are hosting articles written by members of the Windows 7 product development teams. These articles give a very transparent look into the complete process of what it takes to build an operating system. You might want to take a look at some of those articles, there are over 40 so far, and some of them are real eye openers. You can also add your own comments to those articles.

    Engineering Windows 7

    Don't be concerned about posting as much feedback as you wish to that feedback thread. The product teams can handle as much as you wish to post and they are very good at keeping it in the proper order.

    Also, don't be intimidated by the amount of posts to that thread, most of the messages there have already be copied and sent to Microsoft. The Forum Owners don't remove the posts when they collect them.

    As long as everyone follows the rules and respects the fact that others have just as much right to their own, differing opinion, there won't be any problems.


    Have fun.
     

    Thank You for testing Windows 7 Beta


    Ronnie Vernon MVP

    Friday, February 20, 2009 2:15 AM
    Moderator
  • MDTA:

    "I don't get the problem with the breadcrumbs...
    Just click into the textbox and you get the full path as you would have in previous explorer windows..."




    Look, I could explain for 3 paragraphs why I find it annoying, silly and un-necessary but ultimately it's a waste of your time and mine.
    Let's just say this, I am more than happy for breadcrumbs to be a default on feature, my issue is with there not being an option to disable them.

    Then, both you and I are happy :)
    Opinion is opinion and I've been down this road so many times before on the internet, you may love them and not see why I don't but well, I don't! crazy but true.

    I'm 'oldschool'  -  I recall a time I used a PC with DOS5.0  only, no Windows at all, I like my full DIRECTORIES (not folders) :)
    Friday, February 20, 2009 9:33 AM
  • Egads:

    Correct, an ALT D will show the fulll pathname on the system, my brain works in paths and folders, I need my backslashes, I'm just one of those guys who likes to know what's hapenning under the hood.


    Breadcrumbs are a fine idea for the basic user, infact they could probably be damned handy but well not for me.

    Friday, February 20, 2009 9:35 AM
  • scottylans said:

    Egads:

    Breadcrumbs are a fine idea for the basic user, infact they could probably be damned handy but well not for me.


    I don't really like them either, and I'd gladly support your request for an option to disable them, but your posts are obnoxious, so I just can't bring myself to back you up on it.

    The way I see it, options are great things, but alternatives and workarounds are options too, and sometimes you just have to cope with the fact that you have alternatives. The breadcrumbs are one of those things. First, you're obviously not an idiot, so you understand the concept of interpreting a > as a \ for a file path. Moreover, you know you still get the standard path (in a good old copy/paste-able format via Alt-D, so where's the problem other than your stubbornness and resistance to change?
    Friday, February 20, 2009 11:19 PM
  • I think your right about the classic interface, I wished they made the User Interface more like Windows Xp or closer than changed it back because I don't like the search function very much, I also would like know why isn't windows  adding the features back from Windows Xp that were removed in windows vista like hardware profiles in device manager, not like windows vista,  where you only can customize the services.msc file. 

        I don't like how this operating system seems to make it hard for the power user to get anything done by removing features, and turning into a Mac OSX. If I wanted a simple interface with no features I would get a Mac. I want windows, the best  platform  for editing, gaming, office, and most of all performance that isn't build for a toddler and overpriced like an apple computer.  if hardware profiles in device manager in windows 7, I will buy windows 7 license, but its missing old features of Windows Xp professional, and its still not near the speed of Windows Xp and still missing lots of compatibility after vista came out.  Thank you very much great job on Windows 7 microsoft.
    Saturday, February 21, 2009 4:40 PM
  • Yeah, this breadcrumbs thing is irritating and annoying.  I'm trying to synchronize folders, so I have three open.  With a screen resolution of 1680 horizontal, an explorer window that is 1/3 the width of the screen only shows the top-level breadcrumb.  The damn "search" bar takes up half the width of the window, leaving no room for the file path to display.  So I'm looking at three windows that are different paths, but they all look like the same folder, because they only have the top-level breadcrumb, which is totally useless to me, because I know the name of the folder I'm in!!!  I need to know which path each one belongs to, because they all have the same name, because of their parallel structure.  The only way those breadcrumbs show more than one folder is if I make the window half the width of the screen.  It's ridiculous.

    Seriously.  You guys better release an update ASAP to turn OFF those breadcrumbs.  I'm sick of having to click every time i want to see what folder i'm in, and I'm sick of having to click twice just to edit a part of the path (once to display the full path, and again to put the cursor where I want to type).  If I wanted to navigate with buttons, I would use the navigation pane.  These breadcrumbs suck.  At least you pinned the parent folder there in Windows 7 RTM (so I heard) to deal with the fact that it takes multiple clicks to go "up" a folder.  These breadcrumbs are seriously cutting into productivity here.  I've already had to look for things like AveNoBreadcrumbs utility, which doesn't work on my 64-bit Vista, and I've even been trying other file manager altogether such as Total Commander.  Please,  PLEASE release an update to add an option to DISABLE breadcrumbs.

    And while your at it, could you PLEASE stop Vista from littering my network folders with those THUMBS.DB files.  I cannot synchronize my directories, because half of them have thumbs.db files in them.  I'm tired of having to open process explorer, as administrator, just to find the handle to thumbs.db that explorer is holding onto preventing me from deleting them.  It shouldn't even be putting them on network folders EVER anyway!  I shouldn't have to edit a group policy setting (which is only accessible through a run command), which doesn't even do what it says it does (prevent writing thumbs.db on network folders).
    • Edited by Triynko Friday, July 24, 2009 6:40 PM
    Friday, July 24, 2009 6:32 PM
  • I love breadcrumbs.
    In my opinion, its one of the best features of Win7/Vista. It makes navigating complex folder tree's so much simpler.
    Monday, July 27, 2009 3:09 PM
  • Please stop telling Scottylans not to post his comments.  That is ANTI productive to say the least!  I don't care if you are mods, you are out of line to ask him to stop!  He's an intelligent user trying to make the system better.   If you ban him while leaving people who say "I don't understand you people, why would you want to use classic mode?" online, then this is truly a travesty of a site.

    Scotty's viewpoints are truly rational, and he is correctly assuming that one has to be a squeaky wheel to be taken seriously around here, especially in light of these people with nothing better to do than be "passionate about removing some of these same features that, in their opinion, are no longer needed and just add bloat to the OS."

    Bloat is bad, but it's not bloated because the UI has a few too many options.  It's bloated because Microsoft has spent a lifetime of implementing features without spending any effort to speak of to optimize the implementation.  Thus we have a system that requires 10 times the resources to run 10 times slower than it should.  Now, with Windows 7, they have spent a little time actually tidying up, and lo and behold the thing runs with even more features as well or better than XP.

    Scottylans, please don't stop asking for reasonable things.  It is NOT disruptive to hear empassioned pleas for important features.  It's a breath of fresh air!

    -Noel
    Monday, July 27, 2009 3:34 PM
  • Thanks Noel, I appreciate it.
    Saturday, November 7, 2009 4:13 AM
  • I submit my full agreement and support to the above post of Noel Carboni and to the request of scottylans.
    The breadcrumb is not a feature that power users need, it just slows us down.
    In windows 7 there are so many features removed that still existed from xp in vista like the ability to remember window sizes and positions. What is happening with windows 7 is by all means a heap of bad design and idiotic choices of removing features that were proven to work in xp over such a long time span.
    When will microsoft ever learn that there are some things in windows that do not need further improvement anymore.
    Instead of improving the core of windows they keep moving or removing decades old features that are  burnt in our brains and blood, and then they call them improvements baah.
    They bloat the os with unneeded security measures on top of others, they remove the most basic features we all know since windows 95, they move other ones in new places harder to reach and then they have the nerve to say "they have listened this time"
    The way I see it, microsoft should either fix at least half of the complaints on this forum or they are in for a new vista scenario very soon because I am already dual booting with xp and preparing to delete windows 7 after the recent flock of problems and Issues I have had with it! I was an avid supporter of win7 and I truly lied to myself that it's better than vista but other than faster, it's a complete pile of bad decisions and removals. The only good thing about win 7 is the taskbar and the speed increase, the rest is down! Explorer is 5 steps back, windows search is a joke and I could go on!
    Monday, November 9, 2009 4:22 AM
  • i agree my self Im an engineer and some users just don't want it i mean it would of been a nice idea to add an option so if people don't like it can turn it off.
    Friday, November 13, 2009 11:38 AM
  • i am too an engineer, but why on earth is this such a big deal.. if you took the time to LEARN the interface, you would understand it works very well.  Just run the classic theme and turn on display path in title bar under folder properties... sheesh!

    Gives you both worlds.

    scottylans.... I understand you are upset about this... but your approach is what is ticking people off here... there is an old saying, it is easier to attract ants with honey than vinegar. You could always try Windowsblinds 7 from stardock.  That would probably give you what you want.

    I for one love the eyecandy.  I bristle anytime someone tells me that they are an engineer/admin and therefore the only choice is classic.  Heck, even in LInux you get the eye candy.  I am both and engineer and an admin for a large company.  I find no difference in speed with aero turned fully on and off.  If you do , then you either have a POS of a pc (my netbook also has no difference in speed running win7) or your drivers are wrong. 


    Monday, November 16, 2009 12:40 AM
  • i don't mind it myself and its not aero i mean all he wants is breadcrumbs turned off or better just an option and having it in classic mode with the full name in the title bar is still not turning off the breadcrumbs I m just saying i have a lot of people that i repair their computers for will not go over to windows 7 due to the fact of the breadcrumbs feature.
    Monday, November 16, 2009 1:49 AM
  • Aero is fine.
    Breadcrumbs should be toggleable.  They SUCK in my opinion.
    I want to be able to use windows explorer shortcuts and folders like I have since win95...

    I make a folder on my desktop - call it "games" .  In that folder, I put shortcuts to all the games I'm currently playing.  I set it to show ICONS, size it and position it in the upper right of my desktop, then close it.

    Every time I open GAMES, it opens in the same place, same size, with just the small icons and maybe 3/4 inch of "chrome" on top.

    In WIN 7, this cannot be done.  Can't happen.  You can't make a folder view with less than an inch+ of "chrome".  You can't reposition and save.  ARRGH!


    Sorry, just keeping the RC beta running in a VM until this is fixed.  Until then, XP64 forever.

    John
    Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:37 PM
  • I must agree with most of u,i d even go further with this discussion ,i really think that windows 7 should look like Windows millenium or mayber windows 95 which is more stright one and no fancy stuff,more stable etc..oh by the way u can call me code breaker HeHe!
    Get real Bros
    Regards,
    RR
    PS: we like progress not backward travel..
    Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:35 AM
  • So, outside of your support, your reply here is as obnoxious as you contend his posts to be.  If you can "toggle" it with ALT-D, why is there not a check box option to make the PATHS version the default, instead of breadcrumbs?  I find MOST of the changes to the explorer windows either space-wasting or obnoxious and inefficient - such as "Only remember the last folder and position".

    In fact, I contend that omitting little details like this shows that Microsoft was more concerned with "look - shiny!" than with function.  There is no "reason" to some of the decisions made around the UI changes - the'yre certainly not FUNCTIONAL improvements, for the most part, and the fact that many of them cannot be turned off - and that the top title bar is so fargin HUGE! (my XP installation is optimized - title bar is 78px total height).  In fact, "folder" view has a minimum of 200+ pix dedicated to ____ when you include that garbage "selected item" info at the bottom...  Like I can't tell from the highlight which item my mouse clicked??  I guess they engineered this so everyone who's NOT a 7 year old asian girl would have difficulty?

    Sorry if you think people are STUBBORN, but CHANGE is only good when it's good.   These changes are NOT good.  They're counter intuitive.  I get complaints every day -  "Yes, Win7 is better than vista, but"

    Just my 2 cents.



    Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:25 PM
  • How is your comment productive?  Are you 11?? because your message reads like a text from my son...
    Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:33 PM
  • ok just now i saw ur post,the OS developers did that for some reason u might not know,me neither but for what i know in my limited programming knowledge is  that the specific function u mentioned could lead to the same security issues or other types of  issues as the older OS,so considering the System Kernel was all changed completly/entirely the whole thing ,things got changed and dont expect have the same functionalities as the older OS ,get my Drill?
    i know u got used to it but its not something u cant live without it,no i mean?
    [quote] How is your comment productive?  Are you 11?? because your message reads like a text from my son... [/quote]

    i dun give a S H I T for what u think bout my text or english whatever u call it ,its not my first language anyways and at least i can communicate in other languages ,smart it up kid and leave ur F U C K I N G  prejudice and arrogant attitude ,aight dizzle?
    President Obama has proved that this kind of behavior is just a stupid way of thinking,u should be shamed of ur prejudiced statement!!!!!!
    get real and stop complainting bout useless functionalities like a rebel KID and see all the benefits that the NEW OS have that even Linux users are recognizing that Microsoft has found its way and worked hard to give the best option for customers and stop with all the cliche that s been over the last years!!
    Had enuff Son?
    Regards,
    RR



    Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:27 PM
  • Ok.
    These threads are not political, in the first place - but you brought it up.....  Second, I understand other cultures and languages too.  Microsoft made mistakes with this OS.  You don't make FUNDAMENTAL changes unless you're offering a NEW product.  This is an "upgrade" product.  However, microsoft chose to make it as different as an Oven and a Refrigerator in some aspects of the functionality.

    Your reaction proves your immaturity - regardless of what language you speak.  Oh, and OBAMA?  D O U C H E B A G SOCIALIST << that's my opinion.

    There ARE no benefits to WIN 7, except that they fixed the performance problems that they introduced with Vista.  Windows XP is STILL faster in many aspects - even with AERO turned off.  Windows XP is, therefore, a better OS if it offers all the features I need.  And calling me a KID?  Dude, I was running PC's when the ONLY PC was a TRS-80.  My first Hard Disk was as big as a shoe-box and held 5MB <  Yes Mega Bytes > of data and cost $399.00.  I loaded Microsoft BASIC for TRS-DOS from TAPE to write programs.

    Microsoft found a way to make a HUGE mistake by abandoning those folks who STAYED on XP because of the VISTA problems, and released a minor upgrade to VISTA.

    John

    Thursday, November 19, 2009 4:37 AM
  • ok dude no hard feelings i just think windows 7 cant be compared with windows XP,thats my modest opinion i use computers since 9 years old too so more than 16 years aprox..and all i see in windows xp is a red "X" fatal error please reinstall ur OS..i mean it cant be even compared i dun even know where to start from,and bout cultures i realized that by the statement u did saying that my text wasnt even useful for ur 11 years old kid ,i found that extremely rude and decided to give that back in the same token,did i miss the point? if so ,im humble enuff to recognize my mistakes!!!
    vista had some problems i agree but they didnt affect me cuz i aquired that after mostly of the bugs got fixed,mostly of the problems were related to compatibily,now windows 7 not only performance but had improved security and many other features that XP is away off the mark..
    i also understand some ppl is having hard times or some dificulty in dealing with it and thats totally natural when it comes to a new designed OS,all the kernel got changed,some functionalities were left behind for some reason that i dun know and maybe never will,as long is that doesnt affect me much, just like something that it is not "It MUST have" i can live without it and will look for all the benefits,saying that windows 7 had no improvement and it has no benefits other than performance?im sorry to say that but its such a hypocritical statement...
    and its so natural that when u delelop a new code u are suceptible to errors...
    hope this is enlightening post!
    Kind regards,
    RR
    Friday, November 20, 2009 1:15 AM
  • Somebody should clean the walls of useless text from above this post.
    What's wrong with this picture? Let me tell you what mr TRS-80 and Mr Obama, the problem with this picture is that you are freaking chatting about retarded nonsense without actually talking about breadcrumbs. You are spamming and derailing MY topic that interests ME with your useless lives that should be executed out of MY internet!
    I don't care about your personal lives, in fact I hope you both die very fast so that 2 less spamming and derailing idiots are on this forum...
    Friday, November 20, 2009 6:48 AM