none
Disappointed testers when they find Virtual XP not included when they buy Win7

    שאלה

  • Hi all:
       I've read about the higher versions of Win7 (such as the Ultimate Beta 7000 version) having "Virtual XP" included which allows XP applications to work without problems in Windows7.  The most popular version will probably be Home Premium which isn't expected to have this capability.  I'm wondering if there are an awful lot of the millions testing Win7 Beta Ultimate who will be unhappily disappointed after purchasing Windows 7 Home Premium or lower and then can't run applications that the Ultimate version they are testing handles without problem.  Or perhaps it isn't included in this Beta 7000 version?
       I hope that somehow all potential buyers of Win7 find out that they need Win7 Professional or better to have that capability.
        
    • נערך על-ידי newnerd יום שני 27 אפריל 2009 23:16
    יום שני 27 אפריל 2009 23:12

תשובות

  • You may want to re-read those posts. NONE of the stuff I've read has ever said the XP Mode software will be INCLUDED in Windows 7. It will, however, be a free download for those with Professional (Business), Enterprise and Ultimate.

    As such, when you go to the download page (when it becomes available), the system requirements - including the versions that are supported - will be CLEARLY posted on the page in question.

    And no, XP Mode was not included in the 7000 build.

    • סומן כתשובה על-ידי newnerd יום שני 27 אפריל 2009 23:32
    יום שני 27 אפריל 2009 23:19
  • newnerd -

    I read a preiminary review of XP Mode on ZDNet the other day. The author stated it would be shipped as an optional 450 MB download consisting of the software and a VHD image - by way of Windows Update.

    I just don't see Microsoft including it on a DVD. That would kind of fly in the face of the whole Windows 7 philosophy - in other words - bare minimum kludge. That's why previously included software (Windows Mail, Messenger, Photo Gallery, Movie Maker, Parental Controls, etc...) are now part of the Live Essentials package - available as a separate, but free download. 

    Having it as a Windows Update item also insures that only the versions that are supposed to have it can get it.
    • סומן כתשובה על-ידי newnerd יום שני 04 מאי 2009 00:42
    יום שני 04 מאי 2009 00:34

כל התגובות

  • You may want to re-read those posts. NONE of the stuff I've read has ever said the XP Mode software will be INCLUDED in Windows 7. It will, however, be a free download for those with Professional (Business), Enterprise and Ultimate.

    As such, when you go to the download page (when it becomes available), the system requirements - including the versions that are supported - will be CLEARLY posted on the page in question.

    And no, XP Mode was not included in the 7000 build.

    • סומן כתשובה על-ידי newnerd יום שני 27 אפריל 2009 23:32
    יום שני 27 אפריל 2009 23:19
  • Hi Wolfie2k6:
        Thanks for the reply.  I'm glad to hear XP Mode isn't in the 7000 build.  None of the testers will be disappointed when they buy Win7!  Sorry if I mis-read the articles mentioning Virtual XP being in the higher versions.   I had thought they said it was included in those and available as an extra cost download for the lower versions.  They read available as a free download for the higher versions and  I just remembered wrong!  Here is an excerpt from the article that I was referrring to:

    "Paul Thurrott has gotten his hands on a pre-release version of the tool and documented the installation process . In a separate report, he notes that XP Mode will be available as a free download and will take advantage of hardware virtualization features inside newer AMD and Intel processors.

    Letting folks run legacy Windows apps in a free virtual machine isn't a new concept, mind you. Microsoft released Virtual PC 2004 for free before the Vista rollout, but even the latest version needs a Windows XP license and media to install that operating system. Judging by the screenshots and description, it looks like XP Mode won't have those requirements—it just won't run on Starter and Home Premium editions of Windows 7."

    יום שני 27 אפריל 2009 23:24
  • Hi again Wolfie2k6:
         Found the article on Tom's Hardware website that caused me to mis-understand the need to download the "Virtual XP" software.  The article closed with the sentence: "Microsoft will include a full license of Windows XP SP3 with every copy of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise and Ultimate for use with XPM."  My aged memory translated that as being built into Win7!  The article, however, did not mention the need to download the virtualization software which is probably why I jumped to my stupid conclusion!  Thanks again for getting things straight.  That article is at:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-windows-xp-vista-win7,7631.html
    יום שני 27 אפריל 2009 23:59
  • Hi newnerd

    You might also want to take a look at a new communication pipeline for Windows 7 information.

    Go to the main page of this miscellaneous forum, at the top of the page, in the Announcements section. Click the

    Talking About Windows - Join the Discussion announcement.


    Thank You for testing Windows 7 Beta


    Ronnie Vernon MVP

    יום שלישי 28 אפריל 2009 00:12
    מנחה דיון
  • Hi Ronnie Vernon:
         Thanks for the info.  I hadn't noticed that in my rush to post as much incorrect information as I could!
    יום שלישי 28 אפריל 2009 00:18
  • Hi Ronnie Vernon:
         Thanks for the info.  I hadn't noticed that in my rush to post as much incorrect information as I could!
    יום שלישי 28 אפריל 2009 00:18
  • Hi again Wolfie2k6:
         Found the article on Tom's Hardware website that caused me to mis-understand the need to download the "Virtual XP" software.  The article closed with the sentence: "Microsoft will include a full license of Windows XP SP3 with every copy of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise and Ultimate for use with XPM."  My aged memory translated that as being built into Win7!  The article, however, did not mention the need to download the virtualization software which is probably why I jumped to my stupid conclusion!  Thanks again for getting things straight.  That article is at:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-windows-xp-vista-win7,7631.html

    newnerd -

    I don't think it's your fault. The way that sentence was put together was confusing enough as it is.

    It does indeed read that Microsoft will be throwing in a free XP SP3 license with every copy of Win 7 Pro and above to be used with XP Mode. It should have been written with more clarity. Something, perhaps, like this:

    Microsoft will be including a full license of XP SP3 with every copy of the XP Mode software for use with Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise and Ultimate.

    Less confusion that way.
    יום שלישי 28 אפריל 2009 03:11
  • I own xp Professional(SP0) which is slipstreamed now to xpsp3. Sure I have the key, I just hate calling India (It's around 5 years old and has been resurrected many times from fatal mistakes/new hardware/validation issues). My question: I download some software, which asks for a key, which I will have because I bought Win 7. Ok if that's true, will the real xp be able to use the key I get? Anything to save the phone calls. 
     


    Separate rant, I know, but it's torture calling, I don't care what anyone says.
    1. put key
    2. call number
    3. input number
    4.get live rep
    5. read number
    6 answer questions
    7. input number
    8. download drivers.
    9. goto 1
    יום שלישי 28 אפריל 2009 03:33
  • Chitbill -

    Since it hasn't been released as yet, I'm sure we'll all find out when they actually DO release it.

    More than likely, the XP Mode software package will have XP slipstreamed into it. Somehow, I doubt they would be willing to make it so you can simply download the XP Mode package so it could possibly be installed directly without the XP Mode virtualization tool. I'm also going out on a limb and guessing that they will be including an OEM type license like the one you get when you buy a box from Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc... Somehow, I don't think Microsoft reallly wants to hassle with XP much any more - unless they absoloutly have to. That would include activation issues. That given, I doubt you'd get a separate product key that could easily be used elsewhere.

    יום שלישי 28 אפריל 2009 04:52
  • Hi again Wolfie2k6:
        
         Do you suppose that XP might be included as a software application right on the Win7 DVD and is only activated when the XPM software package is installed and activated?  The DVD for Win7 64-bit only contains 3.15 GBs and there is room for 4.7 GBs on DVD's.  This would be similar to the procedure they used with Vista that includes all versions of Vista on the DVD and only the version that you have the key for is installed.
    יום ראשון 03 מאי 2009 23:53
  • newnerd -

    I read a preiminary review of XP Mode on ZDNet the other day. The author stated it would be shipped as an optional 450 MB download consisting of the software and a VHD image - by way of Windows Update.

    I just don't see Microsoft including it on a DVD. That would kind of fly in the face of the whole Windows 7 philosophy - in other words - bare minimum kludge. That's why previously included software (Windows Mail, Messenger, Photo Gallery, Movie Maker, Parental Controls, etc...) are now part of the Live Essentials package - available as a separate, but free download. 

    Having it as a Windows Update item also insures that only the versions that are supposed to have it can get it.
    • סומן כתשובה על-ידי newnerd יום שני 04 מאי 2009 00:42
    יום שני 04 מאי 2009 00:34
  • Hi again Wolfie2k6:
        Thanks for the reply.  I kinda like my idea of including it on the DVD but only getting installed by re-inserting the DVD after downloading the XPM software and then have that software instruct us to insert the DVD and copy XP from it!  Think of the server time saved for a no longer needed XP download!  Maybe Microsoft will see my suggestion and send me a check for thousands of dollars for the suggestion!........then again,  it's probably a dumb idea LOL!
    יום שני 04 מאי 2009 00:47
  • newnerd -

    Well... Yeah.. It would make sense if things were a bit different. But they're not.

    There's method behind the apparent madness.. Microsoft is getting smart about what it includes in it's distributions. As you no doubt recall, Microsoft got sued here in the US for bundling IE with Windows. The EU then took them to task for bundling Windows Media Player. Now the EU is back for a second bite with IE again. Given the willingness of the EU to jump on the complaints of every whiney company out there because Microsoft includes some feature or other in Windows, it only makes sense that Microsoft is limiting their future exposure by making stuff a separate download. You can even disable IE in the latest version of 7. That's a direct response to the current Opera complaint.

    In a more perfect (for Microsoft, anyhow) universe, they could get away with putting all that stuff on the install DVD and more. And while they were at it, throw in a copy of the latest MS Office as well. Why not? Linux distros come pretty much loaded with everything - including OpenOffice.

    Unfortunately, we don't live in that universe. Microsoft has to deal with the competition and government entities that seek to line their pockets with Microsoft's profits. So... Don't expect anything to change.
    יום שני 04 מאי 2009 01:16
  • Gosh....next thing we know......when we buy Windows7 Ultimate O.S. we'll just get a key at the retailer and then have to download our own copy of Win7!   :)
    יום שני 04 מאי 2009 01:29
  • newnerd -

    I don't quite see that happening - not just yet. Too many people still on <gag> dieal up... (pun intended!) If everyone had proper broadband, then I can see the DVD going the way of the dodo, but then there's also the issue of people not having anything the proper tools to download and burn the disc in the first place. What if you're building your computer, your old one died or doesn't have the capability of burning DVDs? Guess you'd be up the proverbial creek at that point.
    יום שני 04 מאי 2009 01:42
  • Hi Wolfie - yep, and DSL as well - takes a while.  Us with high speed links live in lala land!  We too soon forget that many/most? don't have that.

    I figure MS has the effect of a couple of Crays doing distro - I recall when I d/l'ed 7000 it was FAST.  Would love to see that server bank!

    Kris
    יום שני 04 מאי 2009 15:05
  • EA Games has this model in place and they still sell the DVD's. You pay some ungodly amount, the software is downloaded, and it sets itself up from a scrambled and compressed file. They email you a key, just in case you'd ever need it.
      The downside is that their validation is draconian, but I suppose it would be up to the particular online store.
    lala land???
    יום שני 04 מאי 2009 15:30
  • yep - "lala" - I ask for a download and bang, I get it.

    Kris
    יום שני 04 מאי 2009 15:40
  • Broadband or not...
    We bought 20 computers and I was setting them up...in the middle of all that, MS releases IE8 as an update, along with other updates, to the tune of 368mb each.  Do the math, that's over 7gig of download over our wireless broadband.  I hope that redistribution is always an option, whether it be disc or file.
    T.R.

    יום שני 04 מאי 2009 15:44
  • yep - "lala" - I ask for a download and bang, I get it.

    Kris

    I hear Missouri has 60Mbps, hmm courtesy Steve Ballmer.
    O um, I hear the lurkers lurking, "If you need an OS, how can you download an OS?", but yeah, it would be an option (a tax-free, no-shipping option complete with rebate)
    יום שני 04 מאי 2009 15:47

  • yep, and DSL as well - takes a while.  Us with high speed links live in lala land!  We too soon forget that many/most? don't have that.




    Consider 20 Gbps  on Korea's national Internet site.

    יום שני 04 מאי 2009 16:22
  • newnerd,
    Consider 20Gbps/20Gbps FIOS, east coast USA. :-)  Downloads. What, Me Worry?

    Back to Xp Mode. The other catch is that users will not check beforehand to determine if their processor supports virtualization.
    That's already been an issue with RC users that wonder why XP Mode won't install after downloading it at any speed.
    Win 7 works nicely on older hardware, but there are limitations. Even some newer Core2 processors do not support that feature.
    ASUS P4PE-P4 Extreme 3.4gHz-2gb G.Skill PC3200-XPSP3:55gb-Win7RC:17gb-DATA:500gb-ASUS N6800GT
    • נערך על-ידי Nano Warp יום ראשון 27 ספטמבר 2009 12:38 typos
    יום ראשון 27 ספטמבר 2009 12:35
  • Nano,

    Check out the new speed tiers.  25 down, 15 up, lower cost.

    Doc
    יום ראשון 27 ספטמבר 2009 12:38
  • Doc,
    Thanks.  I have original promo rate with contract time remaining. Early adopter as soon as it was available.

    Nano.
    ASUS P4PE-P4 Extreme 3.4gHz-2gb G.Skill PC3200-XPSP3:55gb-Win7RC:17gb-DATA:500gb-ASUS N6800GT
    יום ראשון 27 ספטמבר 2009 14:54
  • Same here.  However, they were all too willing to cut a new contract.  Worth a phone call.

    Doc
    יום ראשון 27 ספטמבר 2009 14:58