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Deadlines and 'No auto-restart with logged on user...' interaction RRS feed

  • Question

  • The "Windows Update and Automatic Reboots" post on the Microsoft Update blog has been very helpful, but it's raised at least one question for me.

    If an update has a deadline, but the Group Policy has the "No auto-restart with logged on users for scheduled automatic updates installations" enabled, can the user postpone the reboot indefinitely?

    Thanks for any help.
    Thursday, October 16, 2008 3:46 PM

Answers

  • MirthMage said:

    The "Windows Update and Automatic Reboots" post on the Microsoft Update blog has been very helpful, but it's raised at least one question for me.

    If an update has a deadline, but the Group Policy has the "No auto-restart with logged on users for scheduled automatic updates installations" enabled, can the user postpone the reboot indefinitely?

    Thanks for any help.



    If an update has a deadline, all other policy settings are overruled by the deadline. So in the question of the "no auto-restart", that setting will be ignored, and the system will initiate a restart immediately upon completion of the installation of the deadline-enabled update. The user cannot postpone the reboot at all.
    Sr. Data Architect, APQC; MVP, MCITP, MCTS(x4), MCP
    • Marked as answer by MirthMage Monday, October 20, 2008 6:05 PM
    Thursday, October 16, 2008 9:06 PM

All replies

  • MirthMage said:

    The "Windows Update and Automatic Reboots" post on the Microsoft Update blog has been very helpful, but it's raised at least one question for me.

    If an update has a deadline, but the Group Policy has the "No auto-restart with logged on users for scheduled automatic updates installations" enabled, can the user postpone the reboot indefinitely?

    Thanks for any help.



    If an update has a deadline, all other policy settings are overruled by the deadline. So in the question of the "no auto-restart", that setting will be ignored, and the system will initiate a restart immediately upon completion of the installation of the deadline-enabled update. The user cannot postpone the reboot at all.
    Sr. Data Architect, APQC; MVP, MCITP, MCTS(x4), MCP
    • Marked as answer by MirthMage Monday, October 20, 2008 6:05 PM
    Thursday, October 16, 2008 9:06 PM
  • MirthMage said:

    The "Windows Update and Automatic Reboots" post on the Microsoft Update blog has been very helpful, but it's raised at least one question for me.

    If an update has a deadline, but the Group Policy has the "No auto-restart with logged on users for scheduled automatic updates installations" enabled, can the user postpone the reboot indefinitely?

    Thanks for any help.



    If an update has a deadline, all other policy settings are overruled by the deadline. So in the question of the "no auto-restart", that setting will be ignored, and the system will initiate a restart immediately upon completion of the installation of the deadline-enabled update. The user cannot postpone the reboot at all.
    Sr. Data Architect, APQC; MVP, MCITP, MCTS(x4), MCP


    Does it save files? I find the "no auto reboot with user logged in" doesn't work at all. I was in the middle of a document and was called away to come back an hour later and find my computer restarted and everything lost.

    I am quite annoyed at Microsoft controlling my computer behaviour and losing all my work.

    Seriously there is NOTHING that urgent to force people to restart and lose their work.


    lforbes
    Thursday, September 8, 2011 3:43 PM
  • Does it save files?

    Save files ??? (Added in hindsight after understanding the whole issue).... As in do for you what you should have done for yourself prior to going to lunch?

    NO.

    It does not.

    But Microsoft Office DOES AutoSave files on a regular basis -- as do almost all office productivity and word processing application, and those are user configurable. What do you have the AutoSave options configured to do in your word processing software?

    I find the "no auto reboot with user logged in" doesn't work at all. I was in the middle of a document and was called away to come back an hour later and find my computer restarted and everything lost.

    Sounds like somebody set a DEADLINE on the update and was not aware of the impact of that DEADLINE on that reboot behavior.

    Are you the WSUS administrator ... or just an annoyed user. (If the latter, then you probably should be having this conversation with your WSUS administrator! If the former... well... what can I say.)

    I am quite annoyed at Microsoft controlling my computer behaviour and losing all my work.
    Learning how a product works and configuring it correctly goes a long way to removing that annoyance that does not deserve to be directed at Microsoft for this type of situation.
    Seriously there is NOTHING that urgent to force people to restart and lose their work.
    Then don't set DEADLINEs on updates! ==OR== (a lesson from the 1980s...!) Don't go to lunch and leave your system unattended with unsaved work open on the desktop. If not because of this type of situation, because it's a fundamental violation of a half-dozen different security practices and principles -- not to mention that a POWER FAILURE will do the same amount of damage as a deadlined update installation -- AND it's a lot more likely!
    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2011)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
    Thursday, September 8, 2011 5:49 PM
  • "Does it save files?"

    Save files ??? (Added in hindsight after understanding the whole issue).... As in do for you what you should have done for yourself prior to going to lunch?

    NO.

    It does not.

    But Microsoft Office DOES AutoSave files on a regular basis -- as do almost all office productivity and word processing application, and those are user configurable. What do you have the AutoSave options configured to do in your word processing software?

    It just seems to me very presumptious of Microsoft to assume that everyone wants their computer restarted without their permission based on Microsoft's determination, especially seeing as it doesn't do any desktop dump (like Hibernate does) in order to preserve data and the desktop experience for the user.

    Sounds like somebody set a DEADLINE on the update and was not aware of the impact of that DEADLINE on that reboot behavior.

    Are you the WSUS administrator ... or just an annoyed user. (If the latter, then you probably should be having this conversation with your WSUS administrator! If the former... well... what can I say.)

    I am the Network administrator responsible for 2500 users and for managing the WSUS server. I set no deadlines in WSUS. Updates are installed nightly so they install as soon as Microsoft releases them and are all current. Therefore there is no need for deadlines. I set the "no auto reboot with user logged in" Group Policy setting because under absolutely NO circumstances do I want Microsoft to restart the computer after updates if a user is logged on, ever.

    Not only do I have thousands of users to manage who are not the most computer savy, but Windows update regularly hangs computers on "Windows is shutting down" if the machine had a user account logged on an locked. I have a corporate shutdown and startup program that manages the shutdowns and then the morning startups that is far more reliable.

    "I am quite annoyed at Microsoft controlling my computer behaviour and losing all my work."

    Learning how a product works and configuring it correctly goes a long way to removing that annoyance that does not deserve to be directed at Microsoft for this type of situation.

    After 20 years of managing Microsoft Networks of thousands of users, I think I have a pretty good handle on how their products work. However I EXPECT them to work as they have been documented to work and when I ENFORCE a Group Policy to stop Windows Update from restaring the computers, I EXPECT it to work as required, not when Microsoft sees fit.

    "Seriously there is NOTHING that urgent to force people to restart and lose their work."

    Then don't set DEADLINEs on updates! ==OR== (a lesson from the 1980s...!) Don't go to lunch and leave your system unattended with unsaved work open on the desktop. If not because of this type of situation, because it's a fundamental violation of a half-dozen different security practices and principles -- not to mention that a POWER FAILURE will do the same amount of damage as a deadlined update installation -- AND it's a lot more likely!

    Trying to control the actions of 2500 users is impossible as any Network Admin knows. Also telling them they are stupid and should have saved doesn't do anything except get you in trouble for insubordination. However, the workstations all lock after a minute of inactivity, which is completely secure and Windows updates restarts even through the locked desktop.

    As for Power Failures - It is called a UPS although seriously with our weather, maybe once in 10 years have we had an unscheduled one.


    lforbes
    • Edited by lforbes Thursday, September 8, 2011 9:09 PM
    Thursday, September 8, 2011 9:07 PM
  • I am the Network administrator responsible for 2500 users and for managing the WSUS server. I set no deadlines in WSUS. Updates are installed nightly so they install as soon as Microsoft releases them and are all current. Therefore there is no need for deadlines.

    Then post the entries from the WindowsUpdate.log for the entire time period you were at lunch, and the logfile will tell us exactly what happened, and exactly why the system was restarted.

    Once we determine what did actually happen, we can continue the conversation about product knowledge and professional experience, etc., if you wish. Right now, IMO, the situation pretty much speaks for itself.


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2011)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
    Friday, September 9, 2011 4:35 AM
  • I am the Network administrator responsible for 2500 users and for managing the WSUS server. I set no deadlines in WSUS. Updates are installed nightly so they install as soon as Microsoft releases them and are all current. Therefore there is no need for deadlines.

    Then post the entries from the WindowsUpdate.log for the entire time period you were at lunch, and the logfile will tell us exactly what happened, and exactly why the system was restarted.

    Once we determine what did actually happen, we can continue the conversation about product knowledge and professional experience, etc., if you wish. Right now, IMO, the situation pretty much speaks for itself.


    Is this a serious answer to a valid concern regarding a non-functioning documented policy configuration?  Because in all honesty this strikes me as the kind of answer that nourishes the self-indulging problem sinkhole that is the technet forums.  I can count on two hands the number of times that I have found an answer in this place that corresponds to the question asked or problem posed, out of the hundereds of times that I've been directed here by Google.  I can possibly count on ONE complete hand the number of times that the "Proposed Answer" isn't simply "go sit on a tack."  This type of response is to be expected from someone who hold the cerimonial title "Moderator" and who has a self-deluded expertise in all things userspace, especially being completely aware of how primary service subsystems, in this case, Windows Update reacts to a global policy configuration that by all account is intended to provide the OP who is an Enterprise WSUS Admin (and I suspect that there is nothing cerimonial about that title..), the capability to manage his machine states (Off and On being primary amongst these) as he sees fit.
    Regardless of your association with Microsoft or this forum, it's responses like the above which give a bad name to the already sterling reputation of Microsoft.

     
    • Proposed as answer by Meekrosoft Thursday, March 14, 2013 4:07 AM
    • Unproposed as answer by Lawrence Garvin Wednesday, May 29, 2013 2:26 AM
    Thursday, March 14, 2013 4:05 AM
  • Then post the entries from the WindowsUpdate.log for the entire time period you were at lunch, and the logfile will tell us exactly what happened, and exactly why the system was restarted.

    Once we determine what did actually happen, we can continue the conversation about product knowledge and professional experience, etc., if you wish. Right now, IMO, the situation pretty much speaks for itself.


    Is this a serious answer to a valid concern regarding a non-functioning documented policy configuration?

    Yes it is. lforbes reported behavior that can only be caused by one scenario (the use of deadlines), and then says that scenario did not occur. Nothing useful can occur until it is determined that [a] the scenario did actually occur (and the logfiles will document that), or [b] something totally unique that has never before seen occurred in lforbes' environment, and we need to think entirely outside of the box. (Sadly, or perhaps to the point, the requested logfiles never materialized.)

    I can count on two hands the number of times that I have found an answer in this place that corresponds to the question asked or problem posed, out of the hundereds of times that I've been directed here by Google

    That's a most interesting observation .... the chart to the right shows that almost 95% of the questions in this forum have been marked as answered, and I, personally, have reviewed every one of those 5800+ threads to ensure that the answers marked as answers, actually are correct answers for the question presented.

    I can possibly count on ONE complete hand the number of times that the "Proposed Answer" isn't simply "go sit on a tack."

    I doubt it's that low, but it's true that proposed answers quite often have no real value. Everybody wants their thought to be the right answer, and anybody can mark a post as a "proposed answer". Sometimes I've seen other participants mark a QUESTION as a proposed answer. (Go figger?) You'll find dozens of notations throughout this forum where I have removed a "proposed answer" as such because it wasn't anywhere close to the mark.


    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    SolarWinds Head Geek
    Microsoft MVP - Software Packaging, Deployment & Servicing (2005-2013)
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
    http://www.solarwinds.com/gotmicrosoft
    The views expressed on this post are mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of SolarWinds.

    Wednesday, May 29, 2013 2:35 AM