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Could not fix File Replication Error.

Question
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Hi,We were having problems with File Replication services. Any help would be highly appreciated.We tried to add server 2003 to our existing group of domain controllers based on windows 2000.Given below is dcdiag log for server running on 2003.DC DiagnosisPerforming initial setup:Done gathering initial info.Doing initial non skippeable testsTesting server: Default-First-Site-Name\SERVER-PDCStarting test: Connectivity......................... SERVER-PDC passed test ConnectivityDoing primary testsTesting server: Default-First-Site-Name\SERVER-PDCStarting test: Replications......................... SERVER-PDC passed test ReplicationsStarting test: NCSecDesc......................... SERVER-PDC passed test NCSecDescStarting test: NetLogons......................... SERVER-PDC passed test NetLogonsStarting test: Advertising......................... SERVER-PDC passed test AdvertisingStarting test: KnowsOfRoleHolders......................... SERVER-PDC passed test KnowsOfRoleHoldersStarting test: RidManager......................... SERVER-PDC passed test RidManagerStarting test: MachineAccount......................... SERVER-PDC passed test MachineAccountStarting test: Services......................... SERVER-PDC passed test ServicesStarting test: ObjectsReplicated......................... SERVER-PDC passed test ObjectsReplicatedStarting test: frssysvolError: No record of File Replication System, SYSVOL started.The Active Directory may be prevented from starting.......................... SERVER-PDC passed test frssysvolStarting test: kccevent......................... SERVER-PDC passed test kcceventStarting test: systemlog......................... SERVER-PDC passed test systemlogRunning enterprise tests on : MYDOMAIN.COMStarting test: Intersite......................... MYDOMAIN.COM passed test IntersiteStarting test: FsmoCheck......................... MYDOMAIN.COM passed test FsmoCheckand dcdiag log for server running on windows 2000 server. We have hosted exchange server and ISA server on this server.DC DiagnosisPerforming initial setup:Done gathering initial info.Doing initial non skippeable testsTesting server: Default-First-Site-Name\SERVER-PDCStarting test: Connectivity......................... SERVER-PDC passed test ConnectivityDoing primary testsTesting server: Default-First-Site-Name\SERVER-PDCStarting test: Replications......................... SERVER-PDC passed test ReplicationsStarting test: NCSecDesc......................... SERVER-PDC passed test NCSecDescStarting test: NetLogons......................... SERVER-PDC passed test NetLogonsStarting test: Advertising......................... SERVER-PDC passed test AdvertisingStarting test: KnowsOfRoleHolders......................... SERVER-PDC passed test KnowsOfRoleHoldersStarting test: RidManager......................... SERVER-PDC passed test RidManagerStarting test: MachineAccount......................... SERVER-PDC passed test MachineAccountStarting test: Services......................... SERVER-PDC passed test ServicesStarting test: ObjectsReplicated......................... SERVER-PDC passed test ObjectsReplicatedStarting test: frssysvolError: No record of File Replication System, SYSVOL started.The Active Directory may be prevented from starting.......................... SERVER-PDC passed test frssysvolStarting test: kccevent......................... SERVER-PDC passed test kcceventStarting test: systemlog......................... SERVER-PDC passed test systemlogRunning enterprise tests on : MYDOMAIN.COMStarting test: Intersite......................... MYDOMAIN.COM passed test IntersiteStarting test: FsmoCheck......................... MYDOMAIN.COM passed test FsmoCheckThanksKumarMonday, August 3, 2009 12:33 PM
Answers
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Hi,Thanks for you all for all the help you have extended to me in fixing the sysvol replication problem.What we have done is copied sysvol folder contents from PDC to BDC manually and set burflag to D4 on BDC and Burflag on PDC to D2 and it seems to have resolved the issue for the time being.Thank you once again for all your help :-) :-) :-)
Vinil- Marked as answer by Joson Zhou Monday, August 10, 2009 8:23 AM
Monday, August 10, 2009 6:39 AM
All replies
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Hello Kumar,
Did you tried running adprep /forestprep and adprep /domainprep on my Windows 2000
DC ?? Can you please restart the file repication service and force the replication using replmon or repadmin and let us know what happens ??
Some more information needed from your side ?
Can you please let us know the complete infrastructure of you network. I mean things related to number of sites and number of domain controllers there os and service packs.
Do you have ISA server running on the Domain Controller ??
ThanskMonday, August 3, 2009 12:48 PM -
Both of the listings you provide use the same server name (SERVER-PDC)? Can you clarify what's the reason for it?
Do you see any error messages in the FRS Event log? If so, can you post them?
Can you also provide the output of IPCONFIG /ALL on both domain controllers?
hth
MarcinMonday, August 3, 2009 1:02 PM -
Hi
Can you please clarify this: "We tried to add server 2003 to our existing group of domain controllers based on windows 2000."
What does it mean?
- Are you trying to add a member server to the Security Group "Domain Controllers"?
- Are you trying to create an additional Domain Controller but you're getting some errors? If so, can you describe the errors (EventID, Source, Description) and what steps did you take to achieve that. Additionally please describe your actual Domain scenario (how many DCs, same subnet, different subnet any firewalls between, etc...)
I hope that the information above helps you. This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and confers no rights.Monday, August 3, 2009 2:04 PM -
Hello,
the dcdiag output states the same servername for 2 different computers? Please describe more detailed how you add the new DC to the existing domain.
Best regards Meinolf Weber Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.Monday, August 3, 2009 8:58 PM -
Hello Syed,
Yes, I did run adprep and forestprep from R2 Disk2.
We had two 2000 server SP4 on ADS with Windows XP as Client.
We had ISA, Exchange installed on main server. Secondary one is a backup for Main server.
Recently we had retired secondary Server and are trying to introduce 2003 R2 as Seconday.
Thanks
KumarTuesday, August 4, 2009 9:57 AM -
Hi marcin,
Sorry accidentally I copied server-PDC's log twice.
I am pasting the log once again.
Domain Controller Diagnosis
Performing initial setup:
Done gathering initial info.
Doing initial required tests
Testing server: Default-First-Site-Name\SERVER-BDC
Starting test: Connectivity
......................... SERVER-BDC passed test Connectivity
Doing primary tests
Testing server: Default-First-Site-Name\SERVER-BDC
Starting test: Replications
......................... SERVER-BDC passed test Replications
Starting test: NCSecDesc
......................... SERVER-BDC passed test NCSecDesc
Starting test: NetLogons
Unable to connect to the NETLOGON share! (\\SERVER-BDC\netlogon)
[SERVER-BDC] An net use or LsaPolicy operation failed with error 1203, Win32 Error 1203.
......................... SERVER-BDC failed test NetLogons
Starting test: Advertising
Warning: DsGetDcName returned information for \\SERVER-PDC.MYDOMAIN.COM, when we were trying to reach SERVER-BDC.
Server is not responding or is not considered suitable.
......................... SERVER-BDC failed test Advertising
Starting test: KnowsOfRoleHolders
......................... SERVER-BDC passed test KnowsOfRoleHolders
Starting test: RidManager
......................... SERVER-BDC passed test RidManager
Starting test: MachineAccount
......................... SERVER-BDC passed test MachineAccount
Starting test: Services
......................... SERVER-BDC passed test Services
Starting test: ObjectsReplicated
......................... SERVER-BDC passed test ObjectsReplicated
Starting test: frssysvol
......................... SERVER-BDC passed test frssysvol
Starting test: frsevent
There are warning or error events within the last 24 hours after the
SYSVOL has been shared. Failing SYSVOL replication problems may cause
Group Policy problems.
......................... SERVER-BDC failed test frsevent
Starting test: kccevent
......................... SERVER-BDC passed test kccevent
Starting test: systemlog
An Error Event occured. EventID: 0x00000416
Time Generated: 08/03/2009 12:56:54
Event String: The DHCP/BINL service on the local machine,
......................... SERVER-BDC failed test systemlog
Starting test: VerifyReferences
......................... SERVER-BDC passed test VerifyReferences
Running partition tests on : Schema
Starting test: CrossRefValidation
......................... Schema passed test CrossRefValidation
Starting test: CheckSDRefDom
......................... Schema passed test CheckSDRefDom
Running partition tests on : Configuration
Starting test: CrossRefValidation
......................... Configuration passed test CrossRefValidation
Starting test: CheckSDRefDom
......................... Configuration passed test CheckSDRefDom
Running partition tests on : aukerrhodes
Starting test: CrossRefValidation
......................... aukerrhodes passed test CrossRefValidation
Starting test: CheckSDRefDom
......................... aukerrhodes passed test CheckSDRefDom
Running enterprise tests on : MYDOMAIN.COM
Starting test: Intersite
......................... MYDOMAIN.COM passed test Intersite
Starting test: FsmoCheck
......................... MYDOMAIN.COM passed test FsmoCheck
and dcdiag log for server running on windows 2000 server. We have hosted exchange server and ISA server on this server.
DC Diagnosis
Performing initial setup:
Done gathering initial info.
Doing initial non skippeable tests
Testing server: Default-First-Site-Name\SERVER-PDC
Starting test: Connectivity
......................... SERVER-PDC passed test Connectivity
Doing primary tests
Testing server: Default-First-Site-Name\SERVER-PDC
Starting test: Replications
......................... SERVER-PDC passed test Replications
Starting test: NCSecDesc
......................... SERVER-PDC passed test NCSecDesc
Starting test: NetLogons
......................... SERVER-PDC passed test NetLogons
Starting test: Advertising
......................... SERVER-PDC passed test Advertising
Starting test: KnowsOfRoleHolders
......................... SERVER-PDC passed test KnowsOfRoleHolders
Starting test: RidManager
......................... SERVER-PDC passed test RidManager
Starting test: MachineAccount
......................... SERVER-PDC passed test MachineAccount
Starting test: Services
......................... SERVER-PDC passed test Services
Starting test: ObjectsReplicated
......................... SERVER-PDC passed test ObjectsReplicated
Starting test: frssysvol
Error: No record of File Replication System, SYSVOL started.
The Active Directory may be prevented from starting.
......................... SERVER-PDC passed test frssysvol
Starting test: kccevent
......................... SERVER-PDC passed test kccevent
Starting test: systemlog
......................... SERVER-PDC passed test systemlog
Running enterprise tests on : MYDOMAIN.COM
Starting test: Intersite
......................... MYDOMAIN.COM passed test Intersite
Starting test: FsmoCheck
......................... MYDOMAIN.COM passed test FsmoCheck
Thanks
VinilTuesday, August 4, 2009 10:16 AM -
Hi Jorge,
Yes, I am trying to add a member server to the Security Group "Domain Controllers"?
DCpromo on member completed without any error.
Thanks
VinilTuesday, August 4, 2009 10:25 AM -
Logs recorded in server-bdc(WINDOWS 2003)
Event Type: Warning
Event Source: NtFrs
Event Category: None
Event ID: 13508
Date: 03/08/2009
Time: 16:54:48
User: N/A
Computer: server-BDC
Description:
The File Replication Service is having trouble enabling replication from SERVER-PDC to SERVER-BDC for c:\windows\sysvol\domain using the DNS name SERVER-PDC.MYDOMAIN.COM. FRS will keep retrying.
Following are some of the reasons you would see this warning.
[1] FRS can not correctly resolve the DNS name SERVER-PDC.MYDOMAIN.COM from this computer.
[2] FRS is not running on SERVER-PDC.MYDOMAIN.COM.
[3] The topology information in the Active Directory for this replica has not yet replicated to all the Domain Controllers.
This event log message will appear once per connection, After the problem is fixed you will see another event log message indicating that the connection has been established.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 05 00 00 00 ....
Event Type: Warning
Event Source: NtFrs
Event Category: None
Event ID: 13565
Date: 03/08/2009
Time: 16:45:02
User: N/A
Computer: SERVER-BDC
Description:
File Replication Service is initializing the system volume with data from another domain controller. Computer SERVER-BDC cannot become a domain controller until this process is complete. The system volume will then be shared as SYSVOL.
To check for the SYSVOL share, at the command prompt, type:
net share
When File Replication Service completes the initialization process, the SYSVOL share will appear.
The initialization of the system volume can take some time. The time is dependent on the amount of data in the system volume, the availability of other domain controllers, and the replication interval between domain controllers.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.Tuesday, August 4, 2009 10:26 AM -
repadmin running command /showrepl against server localhost
Default-First-Site-Name\SERVER-BDC
DC Options: (none)
Site Options: (none)
DC object GUID: 0b88e97c-eb9a-478a-97e9-d95903d873b5
DC invocationID: 10ace15e-b33e-434c-81ed-8326bf7417fe
==== INBOUND NEIGHBORS ======================================
DC=MYDOMAIN,DC=co,DC=uk
Default-First-Site-Name\SERVER-PDC via RPC
DC object GUID: 0e9070e4-d043-45e7-bbcb-ae23ad9e2b7a
Last attempt @ 2009-08-03 18:13:59 was successful.
CN=Configuration,DC=MYDOMAIN,DC=co,DC=uk
Default-First-Site-Name\SERVER-PDC via RPC
DC object GUID: 0e9070e4-d043-45e7-bbcb-ae23ad9e2b7a
Last attempt @ 2009-08-03 18:18:29 was successful.
CN=Schema,CN=Configuration,DC=MYDOMAIN,DC=co,DC=uk
Default-First-Site-Name\SERVER-PDC via RPC
DC object GUID: 0e9070e4-d043-45e7-bbcb-ae23ad9e2b7a
Last attempt @ 2009-08-03 17:45:01 was successful.Tuesday, August 4, 2009 10:28 AM -
Ok,
First a Simple test.
Point NIC preferred DNS to the existing DC with DNS -> Reboot the server -> After reboot try a manual replication using active directory sites and services -> reboot the server again.
Do you still see that error?
I hope that the information above helps you. This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and confers no rights.Tuesday, August 4, 2009 12:22 PM -
EVK,
Please post an unedited ipconfig /all from both servers, please. The outputs will help us understand the DNS relationship and other settings for your DCs and domain.
Thank you.
Ace Fekay, MCT, MCTS Exchange 2007, MCSE 2003 and 2000, MCSA 2003 Messaging. This posting is provided AS-IS with no warranties or guarantees and confers no rights.Tuesday, August 4, 2009 3:43 PM -
Hi Ace,
Here is the IPconfig /all results for Server-PDC
Windows 2000 IP ConfigurationHost Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : Server-pdc
Primary DNS Suffix . . . . . . . : mydomain.co.uk
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : HybridIP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : mydomain.co.uk
Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : mydomain.co.uk
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : HP NC7760 Gigabit Server Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0E-7F-B3-5B-37DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.100
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.3
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.100
192.168.0.4
Primary WINS Server . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.101Results for Server-Bdc
Windows IP Configuration
Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : Server-bdc
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : mydomain.co.uk
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : mydomain.co.uk
Ethernet adapter LAN:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) 82567LM-3 Gigabit Network Connection
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-23-AE-7A-19-7E
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.4
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.3
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.100
192.168.0.4
Primary WINS Server . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.101
Thanks
VinilWednesday, August 5, 2009 12:26 PM -
Hi Jorge,
Here is the event log of server-bdc after manual replication.
Event Type: Warning
Event Source: NtFrs
Event Category: None
Event ID: 13508
Date: 05/08/2009
Time: 13:44:00
User: N/A
Computer: Server-Pdc
Description:
The File Replication Service is having trouble enabling replication from Server-Pdc to Server-Bdc for c:\windows\sysvol\domain using the DNS name Server-pdc.mydomain.co.uk. FRS will keep retrying.
Following are some of the reasons you would see this warning.
[1] FRS can not correctly resolve the DNS name Server-Pdc.mydomain.co.uk from this computer.
[2] FRS is not running on Server-Pdc.mydomain.co.uk .
[3] The topology information in the Active Directory for this replica has not yet replicated to all the Domain Controllers.
This event log message will appear once per connection, After the problem is fixed you will see another event log message indicating that the connection has been established.For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 05 00 00 00 ....Wednesday, August 5, 2009 12:50 PM -
Hi EKVK,
The ipconfigs actually look pretty good. I can make one suggestion for Server-bdc, to make the first DNS itself, and the second address set to 192.168.1.100.
I believe Jorge suggested the same thing.
As for the 13508 errors, the one part of the message says it can't resolve the following FQDN. Does it exist in DNS under your zone?
Server-Pdc.mydomain.co.uk
I see that you have ISA and Exchange on the first DC. Needless to say, it's not recommended to install any major applications or services (such as Exchange, ISA, RRAS, etc), due to the complications that are introduced and the difficulties it presents. My feeling is that ISA may be causing the issue. ISA is a major firewall, and firewall products are not recommended on DCs anyway. It can cause communications problems. ISA and Exchange are best left for member servers to allow DCs to operate without problems.
May I ask why ISA is on Server-Pdc.mydomain.co.uk?
Ace
Ace Fekay, MCT, MCTS Exchange 2007, MCSE 2003 and 2000, MCSA 2003 Messaging. This posting is provided AS-IS with no warranties or guarantees and confers no rights.Wednesday, August 5, 2009 2:46 PM -
Ok,
Second test, leave the configuration as it is.
Create a Rule in ISA server that allows all inbound and outbound traffic from and to both servers PDC and BDC server. Don't forget to disable RPC filters.
On PDC DNS, delete the record entry for BDC.
Next, run netdiag /fix on both DCs and restart Netlogon service.
Do you see the new record for BDC server on PDC/DNS ?
Then, manuall replication...
And now, do still have the issue?
I hope that the information above helps you. This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and confers no rights.- Edited by JorgeSilva Wednesday, August 5, 2009 6:14 PM
Wednesday, August 5, 2009 6:12 PM -
Hi Ace,
This setup was deployed by an adminstrator earlier to me. We are trying to seperate it now :-)
Thanks
VinilThursday, August 6, 2009 6:32 AM -
Hi Jorge,I have done that and still getting the same error.Out of curio, just searched the registry settings of the PDC to see if there is anything missing here.and it appears as below, Is it correct?HKLM\system\currentcontrolset\services\ntfrs\parameters\replication set I have two keys here1) Default {String} {empty}2) Database directory {string} {c:\winnt\ntfrs\jet}HKLM\system\currentcontrolset\services\ntfrs\parameters\cumulative replica sets28 GUID's here Most them having Keys1) Default {string}2) Burflag {Dword}Few of them have number of partners {dword}ThanksVinilThursday, August 6, 2009 6:56 AM
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Ok, next step...
- Check time sync between both DCs.
- Are you getting EventID 13509 after 13508? Assuming no, please check Troubleshooting FRS Events 13508 without FRS Event 13509
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727056.aspx#ENAA
- If none of this works, you may have a look at:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315457
I hope that the information above helps you. This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and confers no rights.- Proposed as answer by Devaraju K Friday, August 7, 2009 2:59 AM
Thursday, August 6, 2009 9:26 AM -
Hi Vinil,
Understandable! :-)
In the meantime, Jorge's suggestions should help.
Is it possible to completely disable or uninstall ISA to test this? I mean you can backup the ISA config, then uninstall it, and see if this is the cause, and if not, you can reinstall it and apply the backed up config, or even move it to a non-DC.
Ace
Ace Fekay, MCT, MCTS Exchange 2007, MCSE 2003 and 2000, MCSA 2003 Messaging. This posting is provided AS-IS with no warranties or guarantees and confers no rights.Thursday, August 6, 2009 9:57 AM -
BTW: What version of ISA server are you running on that DC?
I hope that the information above helps you. This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and confers no rights.Thursday, August 6, 2009 10:02 AM -
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Hi,Thanks for you all for all the help you have extended to me in fixing the sysvol replication problem.What we have done is copied sysvol folder contents from PDC to BDC manually and set burflag to D4 on BDC and Burflag on PDC to D2 and it seems to have resolved the issue for the time being.Thank you once again for all your help :-) :-) :-)
Vinil- Marked as answer by Joson Zhou Monday, August 10, 2009 8:23 AM
Monday, August 10, 2009 6:39 AM -
Good to hear!
Ace
Ace Fekay, MCT, MCTS Exchange 2007, MCSE 2003 and 2000, MCSA 2003 Messaging. This posting is provided AS-IS with no warranties or guarantees and confers no rights.Monday, August 10, 2009 12:49 PM -
Unfortunately all the suggested solution didn't work for me.
In my case, We have 2 DCs which are Windows 2008 Standard and functional level is Windows 2000 native because we just upgraded DCs.
By Default, Windows 2008 uses DFS Replication to replicate SYSVOL. But If functional level is Windows 2000 native then FRS Service is needed to replicate DCs.
(Ref - http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc773238%28WS.10%29.aspx#BKMK_026) So we installed File Replication Services in both DCs.
And replicate the DCs from Active Directory Sites & Services --> NTDS Settings (Context Menu).
Bingo!!! Immediately after that I have Event Id - 13516 which is basically message saying SYSVOL is now ready to be shared. which is basically message saying SYSVOL is now ready to be shared.
Viral Dalia System/Network Administrator MCSA, MCSE, MCDBA, CCNAFriday, May 28, 2010 3:39 AM -
Unfortunately all the suggested solution didn't work for me.
In my case, We have 2 DCs which are Windows 2008 Standard and functional level is Windows 2000 native because we just upgraded DCs.
By Default, Windows 2008 uses DFS Replication to replicate SYSVOL. But If functional level is Windows 2000 native then FRS Service is needed to replicate DCs.
(Ref - http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc773238%28WS.10%29.aspx#BKMK_026) So we installed File Replication Services in both DCs.
And replicate the DCs from Active Directory Sites & Services --> NTDS Settings (Context Menu).
Bingo!!! Immediately after that I have Event Id - 13516 which is basically message saying SYSVOL is now ready to be shared. which is basically message saying SYSVOL is now ready to be shared.
Viral Dalia System/Network Administrator MCSA, MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA
I'm glad to hear this worked for you. I was trying to re-read the thread to see if it was indicated there is a mixed-mode DC scenario with Windows 2000 & Windows 2008 DCs, but I didn't see that. I'm not sure if you were the original poster, (name changed?) but with Windows 2008, yes, it will use DFS-R, and Windows 2000 & 2003 uses FRS. There are a series of commands to instantiate DFS-R on 2008 once the 2000 & 2003 DCs have been removed.Either way, I'm happy to hear that you've figured this out!
Ace
Ace Fekay, MVP, MCT, MCITP EA, MCTS Windows 2008 & Exchange 2007, MCSE & MCSA 2003/2000, MCSA Messaging 2003 Microsoft Certified Trainer Microsoft MVP - Directory Services This posting is provided AS-IS with no warranties or guarantees and confers no rights.Friday, May 28, 2010 2:24 PM -
Hi Kumar,
Restart the File Replication Service..
Thanks,
Dilan.
- Proposed as answer by Dilan Weerasinghe Wednesday, December 5, 2012 9:52 AM
Wednesday, December 5, 2012 9:52 AM