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New Start menu is slowing me down in Server 8 - PART 2

    General discussion

  • I have no problem whatsoever with the Start Screen, except getting to it. When Alt-Home is my only option, it seems to be a fail. It isn't more to support a button. In fact, I'll prove it.

    https://startscreenbutton.codeplex.com/

    That is a program I wrote in about 10 minutes that you can pin to the taskbar and upon being clicked it will open the start screen. That is all I wanted and all I need to make my experience working over RDP, VNC, LogMeIn, and the like so much easier. I understand the need to get people used to the new interface, and I'm all for that. However, RDP requires a different approach. Even if the same method for showing the desktop, the little vertical bar on the right of the taskbar, were duplicated on the left to bring up the Start Screen that would be invisible to most users, but big enough to use in an RDP session.


    Monday, November 5, 2012 7:43 PM

All replies

  • Good riddance Sinofsky. Destroyer of the Windows UI.
    Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:51 AM
  • Good riddance Sinofsky. Destroyer of the Windows UI.
    +1. Steve Sinofsky was an utter disaster as of late. Good riddance indeed.
    Tuesday, November 13, 2012 4:03 AM
  • This is a huge indicator of the failure of Microsoft to recognize what an epic fail the Metro UI will prove to be.

    10 years from now Internet historians will review this thread and shake their collective heads at the truth.


    • Edited by Hola IT GUY Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:27 PM
    Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:27 PM
  • That is a program I wrote in about 10 minutes that you can pin to the taskbar and upon being clicked it will open the start screen. 

    Thank you for writing and posting this.

    Tuesday, November 13, 2012 6:01 PM
  • Thank you for writing and posting this.

    Your welcome. Please up vote me if you like it.

    Tuesday, November 13, 2012 6:58 PM
  • Regardless of which side of the issue you are on, the fact that so many in here have an issue with the lack of a start button should be respected.  Even if it does not affect you, it obviously is a big concern to others.  To me, it speaks volumes that MS did nothing about it and suggests we should be looking more at alternatives to MS in the future.  I think we can all agree, if our users complained so loudly about something to any of us, we would all have to address it.  So why should MS be any different when we – the admins – complain.  It’s disrespectful.

    C_barth – thank you for posting that.  much appreciated.


    BarrySDCA

    Tuesday, November 13, 2012 7:06 PM
  • The original thread has been split due to performance issues.

    I would request you to continue with this new thread as old thread will be locked.

    Here is the URL for original thread.

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/winserver8gen/thread/446638d2-b043-4d53-a141-f6742f607d56

    Thanks


    Regards, Santosh

    I do not represent the organisation I work for, all the opinions expressed here are my own.

    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties or guarantees and confers no rights.

    Whenever you see a helpful reply, click on Alternate Text Vote As Helpful & click on Alternate Text Mark As Answer if a post answers your question.

    Wednesday, November 14, 2012 4:28 PM
    Moderator
  • For anyone using Windows 2012 for development and testing and who's getting a headache from the colour scheme here's a couple of tips to make it look a bit more like Windows 8

    http://david-homer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/make-windows-server-2012-look-like.html

    Thanks,

    David Homer
    CENTREL Solutions

    Server Audit and Documentation

    • Edited by David Homer Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:15 PM
    Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:15 PM
  • The problem is 95% of corporate software developers are borderline retarded and can barely manage a server without people like me spoon feeding them 24 hours a day. They will be completely lost if we hand them Windows 2012. It has nothing to do with a start menu, it has to with my retarded army who have taken years of getting used to do working in Windows a certain way and to change it with really no valid reason is absurd. Charm bar? Ridiculous. I don't know a single corporate IT person that is excited to push Windows 8 to their users. Maybe Gates and Ballmer told Sinofsky to leave because of this epic failure. Maybe Sinofsky did it to ruin Microsoft. Something is just so not right about the whole thing.

    • Edited by Hola IT GUY Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:39 PM
    Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:08 AM
  • The problem is 95% of corporate software developers are borderline retarded and can barely manage a server without people like me spoon feeding them 24 hours a day. They will be completely lost if we hand them Windows 2012. It has nothing to do with a start menu, it has to with my retarded army who have taken years of getting used to do working in Windows a certain way and to change it with really no valid reason is absurd. Charm bar? Ridiculous. I don't know a single corporate IT person that is excited to push Windows 8 to their users. Maybe Gates and Ballmer told Sinofsky to fuck off because of this epic failure. Maybe Sinofsky did it to ruin Microsoft. Something is just so not right about the whole thing. Who cares at this point. We're all gonna fucken die anyway.
    Agree. Nobody wants a Charms bar on the server. Sinofsky was a disaster as of late. The damage he has dome to the server product by forcing Metro onto it is a travesty.
    Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:09 AM
  • Maybe Sinofsky did it to ruin Microsoft. Something is just so not right about the whole thing.

    Maybe Sinofsky is a Mayan calendar enthusiast and wanted to align the end of Windows with the end of the world.
    Friday, November 16, 2012 10:01 PM
  • The problem is 95% of corporate software developers are borderline retarded and can barely manage a server without people like me spoon feeding them 24 hours a day. They will be completely lost if we hand them Windows 2012. It has nothing to do with a start menu, it has to with my retarded army who have taken years of getting used to do working in Windows a certain way and to change it with really no valid reason is absurd. Charm bar? Ridiculous. I don't know a single corporate IT person that is excited to push Windows 8 to their users.

    No, it has something to do with the start menu. What's the point of the start screen? To push Metro apps.  But why would you need metro apps in a business environment?

    1. The desktop has multiple windows, Metro has not.

    2. Desktop programs can be resized, Metro apps cannot.

    3. The desktop has drag and drop between applications, Metro has not. Instead of just selecting the items you want to export and actually move them into the other program, you need to handle with "charms" which comes across far more unintuitive than just dragging and dropping.

    4. The desktop has nearly unlimited multi-tasking abilities, Metro has not.

    5. Metro apps are far more limited in scope, by design, than desktop programs.

    6. Desktop programs have depth and 3D, Metro apps on the other hand seem to be approved by the Flat Earth Society.

    7. Desktop programs are usually more colorful and vibrant, the Metro design principle consists of CGA style mono-color.

    Winzip for desktop:

    WinRT version:

    Which one does look more like a C64 program?

    8. You can open up other programs in the desktop, through the start menu, without disrupting workflow. On the other hand the start screen is something like the "item menu" in games where you dress up your character with weapons etc. Everyone knows that it is quite distracting switching between item menu and game world in games, and Microsoft brought this concept onto its flag ship product! Hooray.

    9. Desktop programs can be easily distributed, Metro desktops are locked-in into the store.

    And that's just the problem of the WinRT part. The fact that Win8 has multiple control panels and update mechanisms and is a duality monster hasn't been touched upon here. Yet alone that Win8 apologists in all seriousness propose arcane keyboard shortcuts as solution for some of the glaring problems, where previous versions worked just fine without using them.

    If an alien would just land on our planet and see Windows 7 and Windows 8 (and its programs) for the first time, without no prior knowledge, he would think Windows 7 is the successor, not 8.

    I am not "against change", I am not married to the start menu or Win32. If something truly better would come along, I would be sold. But Notro just isn't.

    I still can't get over it. They took a phone GUI and put it on full fledged computers as default... even on on servers.
    The premise is so retarded when you take your time to think about it for more than one millisecond, just unbelievable. Like putting a bike into a car chassis.

    That they were able to go with this and run it to the very end is just f*cking incredible.

    Friday, November 16, 2012 10:07 PM
  • Any news ?

    First part of this topic : http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/winserver8gen/thread/446638d2-b043-4d53-a141-f6742f607d56/

    Just to say because of Metro, and because I do not need to install a server on a mobile device, I will not jump on Windows Server 2012 for me and my team.

    Cheers.



    • Edited by 3KyNoX Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:26 PM
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:24 PM
  • The Metro UI works on a tablet (pretty good job on the Surface), but it has no business being put on Windows Server which is connected via RDC more often than physically at the console.  What was Microsoft thinking?  Getting to the start menu is a royal pain, a 3x3 pixel area to get it to come up and then the settings bar on the right side, I still haven't quite figured out where to put my mouse for that.
    Friday, January 4, 2013 7:21 PM
  • Well, I must admit I went into it with an open mind.  I only administer 10 servers out of many thousands our company has and I LIKE learning new stuff.

    I...admit... that I am having trouble getting used to the interface.

    I do believe there are HUGE performance improvements across the board in 2012, just based on my small pool of test servers, but MANAGING them is....not obvious at times. 

    I have RDP up (on an internal LAN so no performance issues) and I'm looking at the start screen.  I have square boxes for things like "buy this" from a trial download I paid for already.  How do I get this big box off of my start screen?  Or any other start boxes I don't need?  Can I group the added programs so that all my SQL stuff is in a folder (or segmented in the start screen divided some how?  I use Xilisoft to convert videos, I don't need the icon box for the help for it, but can I get rid of it?  I've tried all the obvious, click on it and hit the delete key, right click, left click, forward kick to the computer, but I can't even seem to do the simple task of organizing the start screen to make it easier for me to find what I am looking for, and get rid of the stuff I don't want.

    I'm not even terribly upset about hovering over the left bottom to 'find' start menu, or over the right bottom to bring up settings. But I can see I will need to record a short presentation for people to be able to USE Windows 8.  Or pressing the windows key to bring up the start menu... I've really never used that key before but its not bad. 

    Now, to FIND the start menu, I had to pull up IE on my windows 7 machine and search for how to get the start menu, how to power the OS down, etc... The fact that I had to do a search to figure out how to turn off my machine should be an indication of the frustration of the other users.  Get real.  I have searched for my issue with removing tiles from the start screen, and still have not figured that one out.

    It makes me think of Vista (everyone remember Vista)  in the fact that if everyone does NOT buy Windows 8 or Server 2012, Microsoft may, in fact, come out with a new OS quickly or modify this one to satisfy some portion of their market segment.  Though even VISTA had a useable interface.

    I'm also curious.. there seem to be a lot of people in this thread that have significant numbers of servers and/or users to maintain.  Do you see a roll out of the new 8/2012 anytime soon?  This should be an indication of how Microsoft is going to meet (or not) their financial goals for the new OS.

    I applaud Microsoft for making the bold move in unifying the interface across all platforms, but I'm not sure the casual user (or the dedicated server maintainers I talk to) are quite ready for a bold move themselves.

    And shame on whomever suggested PowerShell or core to maintain the server.  That may be ok for an expert (yes, I use PowerShell myself and have a 'cheat sheet' for it) but I can't see a USER doing this, or even and admin if they are used to having Win 7 like interface.


    • Edited by DDB_CA Monday, January 7, 2013 12:18 AM
    Monday, January 7, 2013 12:14 AM
  • We just started looking at migrating our collection of servers to 2012, starting with a file server.  And after a few days of pure agony trying to manage an interface designed for touch screens, we determined that again, Microsoft have produced another WinME that surpasses the stupidity of Vista.

    Lets get serious for a moment.  Designing an interface for touch on a user platform - windows 8 for instance - is bonkers enough, given the poor popularity of touch interfaces.  For sales people, or admin people who never really do much with their computer; ok maybe they will get into it.  For everyone else, WTF?  Engineers won't be able to work with touch in place of mouse.  Finance people need much more accuracy and speed to move around spreadsheets and ERP systems.  But ok, if you only have sales people and your admin people are kindergarten-level intelligence, then touch might work.

    But what absolute idiot decided it was a good thing for servers?  I mean come on.  The physical server is interacted with for a couple days at most, when setting up the initial OS and getting all the initial parameters in place.  Thereafter, 99% - or more - is done over RDP.  And Metro is, excuse my french, f--king stupid for this environment.  I manage over 200 servers.  Migrating even 5% of them to 2012 will create an unmanageable environment for me.  Get rid of the stupid UI on the servers, or give me an easy way to go to the 2008 R2 UI.

    Yes, there are other tools that I can install that will make my life easier.  But if I have to go through efforts with every new server, adding to the resource drain and configuration; why don't I instead move to Linux or Mac?  Today it's not that much more expensive, in fact the OS for Mac is cheaper to maintain.  But regardless of how we resolve the problem, we still come back to what kind of retard puts a TOUCH INTERFACE on a SERVER?

    Wednesday, January 16, 2013 7:58 AM
  • Metro. Lol.
    Thursday, January 17, 2013 8:38 AM
  • In Response to Fadi1's comment on the Part one of this thread.

    "Real Admins don't need UI. "

    How about junior admins like myself... that don't have the knowledge you contain. I want to learn more, and I'm just starting out. Do you agree that starting out by learning a non-gui based OS is the best option?  I find it very difficult to learn that way.   Please bring back the intuitive UI design of server 2008. Thanks!

    Monday, February 11, 2013 10:17 PM
  • This is a huge indicator of the failure of Microsoft to recognize what an epic fail the Metro UI will prove to be.

    10 years from now Internet historians will review this thread and shake their collective heads at the truth.



    +1
    Monday, February 11, 2013 10:19 PM
  • Oh, you poor dear. You just don't understand. MS has committed to forcing everyone to run S2012 on an iPad 3. Get with the Program!
    The Metro UI works on a tablet (pretty good job on the Surface), but it has no business being put on Windows Server which is connected via RDC more often than physically at the console.  What was Microsoft thinking?  Getting to the start menu is a royal pain, a 3x3 pixel area to get it to come up and then the settings bar on the right side, I still haven't quite figured out where to put my mouse for that.

    Tomás Mason
    Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:15 PM
  • It works great on my iPad 3.

    This is a huge indicator of the failure of Microsoft to recognize what an epic fail the Metro UI will prove to be.

    10 years from now Internet historians will review this thread and shake their collective heads at the truth.



    +1

    Tomás Mason
    Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:16 PM
  • Yeah. Server 2012 will be run by touchscreen and powershell only. My developers can barely operate a microwave oven. And our secretaries will surely be able to use Win8 with no training. Microsoft is sinking. Sad to see after kicking ass with W7 and Server 2008 - 2 very solid products.
    Friday, March 1, 2013 2:41 AM
  • we ended up installing classicshell.net and all is good.

    BarrySDCA

    Sunday, April 21, 2013 11:25 PM
  • Wow, BillG listened.
    Friday, May 31, 2013 2:45 PM